The Marketing Metrics Everyone Misunderstands with Emily Popson, VP of Marketing at CallRail | Ep. 376

MQLs are dead…or are they? Daniel sits down with Emily Popson, VP of Marketing at CallRail, to unpack the biggest pieces of bad advice marketers keep seeing on LinkedIn and what the real truth is behind MQLs, attribution, dark social, and AI-powered data. Emily shares: - Why the war on MQLs is misleading thousands of marketers  - How to fix your lead definitions without rebuilding your entire ops system - Why attribution isn’t “garbage.” And, what metrics do CMOs actually want to see? The answer might be the ones you’ve been leaving out.  This episode is for Marketers who are tired of LinkedIn hot takes and want to understand what actually drives revenue.  CallRail is the lead engagement platform built for marketers who need clean attribution, smarter insights, and zero missed leads. From AI-powered call tracking and conversation intelligence to a 24/7 AI voice agent, CallRail helps teams maximize every inbound touchpoint and convert more leads into customers. https://www.callrail.com/proveit?utm_campaign=q4_2025_marketing_millennials_podcast&utm_medium=thirdparty_advertising&utm_source=marketingmillennials   Follow Emily: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilypopson/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

Why does social proof actually matter? What’s the psychology behind FOMO?  Behavioral science legend Richard Shotton is back, and he’s dropping some of the most practical psychology-backed tactics marketers can use today. Richard and Daniel break down the biases that shape real-world buying behavior, including why social proof works far better when it’s specific and localized, AND how to make customers draw their own conclusions.  You’ll also learn:  - The subtle language shift between “out of stock” and “sold out” that changes irritation levels by 15% - Why humor dramatically boosts every brand metric thanks to the Halo Effect - Apple’s use of concrete language and how to make your messaging 4x more memorable If you want your Marketing to work better with zero extra budget, this conversation is for you.  Optimizely helps thousands of brands create, personalize, and optimize exceptional digital experiences. See how Optimizely Opal, our AI agent orchestration platform, automates real marketing work and helps teams scale their impact at https://www.optimizely.com/ai/?utm_campaign=PS-GL-11-2025-MARKETING-MILLENNIALS-PODCAST&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=marketingmillennials&utm_content=opal-agent-orchestration  Follow Richard: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-shotton Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

What if urgency is the only lever you’re not pulling? Daniel and Jay break down why “always available” offers quietly kill conversions and how time-based urgency can turn passive audiences into decisive buyers. They unpack real-world plays from ecom and B2B, including how a 30-minute discount window drove action without extra ad spend, why expiring content outperforms evergreen resources, and how to use deadlines to close the year strong. Plus, they share easy urgency tests you can run right now. No new tools, no bigger budget, just smarter timing. If you’re a Marketer trying to drive results before the calendar flips, this one’s for you. 🚽 Follow Jay: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwedelson/ Podcast: Do This, Not That Follow Daniel: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@themarketingmillennials/featured Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/Dmurr68 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

So, what does Marketing ops actually look like? Atlassian’s Head of Lifecycle Marketing Ops Kelly Jo Horton joins Daniel to break down what ops actually is, why it’s so complex, and how high-performing teams are evolving the function for 2026 and beyond. She explains why MOPS isn’t “just sending an email,” why process is everything, and why marketers need to stop treating ops like a drive-thru and start treating it like a Michelin-star kitchen. She also reveals how Atlassian structures its ops organization and why she believes the MQL is officially dead. You’ll also learn: >  What modern Marketing Ops actually does and why it varies by company > How AI can automate repetitive ops tasks (like list cleaning and lead investigations) > How Atlassian uses Jira, Confluence, Slack bots, and Loom to run ops like engineering This is for anyone in Marketing, rev ops, or GTM who wants to build a scalable system…and for every Marketer who’s ever said “it’s just an email.” Easily record and share AI-powered video messages with your teammates and customers to supercharge productivity at https://www.loom.com/ Follow Kelly Jo: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellyjohorton/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

Annual planning is where great marketing teams separate themselves from the rest…and Customer.io CMO Jason Lyman joins Daniel to break down exactly how to do it. Jason shares the Play to Win framework he uses, the biggest mistakes marketers make during planning season, and how AI now powers his planning workflow. And, how does Customer.io use stress-testing strategies to identify lifecycle opportunities? You’ll also learn: Why most marketing plans fail and how to fix yours. • How to create strategic pillars your whole org can align around • The 70/20/10 model for balancing safe bets and big swings Whether you're a CMO, a team leader, or an IC who wants to level up, this is the episode for you. Customer.io helps brands turn data into personalized messages that actually connect, across email, SMS, and beyond. Today, over 7,800 brands trust Customer.io to power their messaging. Visit: https://try.customer.io/paid/trial?utm_medium=ads&utm_source=marketingmillennials&utm_campaign=november_podcast Follow Jason: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyman1/ Follow Daniel: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

What if everything you believe about email marketing is wrong? Daniel and Jay are here to blow up the biggest myths everyone still repeats, from “best send times” to “open rates don’t matter.”  They unpack the five email lessons they’re taking into 2026, including why low-lift CTAs spark real replies, how verified subscriber data reveals your true ICP, and the deliverability trap hiding inside your domain frequency report. And, how do you use AI without sounding like a robot? Turns out, it’s easier than you think.  If you’re a Marketer planning to scale your email efforts next year, this one’s for you. 🚽 Follow Jay: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwedelson/ Podcast: Do This, Not That Follow Daniel: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@themarketingmillennials/featured Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/Dmurr68 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

Why do the boldest ideas drive the biggest business wins? Live from Marketingland 2025, Nick Tran (ex-TikTok, Hulu, Samsung) breaks down all things brand and creative with Amanda Slavin (author, and co-founder of Future Frequency).  You’ll learn: > Why crises often spark the most innovative creative work > How to know when bold ideas are brilliant…and when they're just noise > The myth of chasing trends vs. the real meaning of cultural relevance Whether you're a CMO, a creator, or someone sitting on a brave idea you’re scared to pitch, this conversation will push you to rethink what “bold” really means…and why the riskiest idea might just be your smartest one. Customer.io⁠ is an AI-powered customer engagement platform that helps teams turn first-party data into personalized messages at scale. It enables teams to easily create and send communications across email, SMS, push, in-app, and webhooks to drive engagement and growth. Today, over 7,800 brands trust ⁠Customer.io⁠ to power their messaging. Click here for more. Follow Nick: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholastran/ Follow Amanda: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amslavin/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

How do Product-Led Growth (PLG) and Sales-Led Growth (SLG) actually work together…instead of competing against each other? In this Marketingland 2025 session, ClickUp’s COO Gaurav Agarwal and Global VP of Marketing Kyle Coleman break down why the “PLG vs. SLG” debate is a false dichotomy, and how the most successful companies blend both to drive real revenue impact. From navigating budget decisions to building demand, delivering intuitive product experiences, and integrating AI in ways that actually help (instead of over-promising), they dig into the mechanics of modern growth engines. And, should incremental ROI really be your real north star? If you're building, optimizing, or scaling a modern GTM engine, this conversation is for YOU.  Optimizely helps thousands of brands create, personalize, and optimize exceptional digital experiences. See how Optimizely Opal, our AI agent orchestration platform, automates real marketing work and helps teams scale their impact at https://www.optimizely.com/ai/?utm_campaign=PS-GL-11-2025-MARKETING-MILLENNIALS-PODCAST&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=marketingmillennials&utm_content=opal-agent-orchestration Follow Gaurav: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gauravragarwal/ Follow Kyle: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyletcoleman/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

Want to prepare for social in 2026 but have no clue where to start? Daniel and Jay break down what they’ve learned about social in 2025 and what to anticipate in 2026. From jumps in AI to boosting posts, things are changing…and fast.  They explain: > Why boosting “loser” organic posts may not be the push you think it is > The power of hero images > Why you need a commenting AND reply strategy If you’re a Marketer planning for the upcoming year, this one’s for you. 🚽 Follow Jay: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwedelson/ Podcast: Do This, Not That Follow Daniel: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@themarketingmillennials/featured Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/Dmurr68 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

What really drives explosive organic audience growth in 2025: algorithms, content hacks, or something deeper? From Marketingland 2025, Sophie Miller, founder of Pretty Little Marketer and the creator behind a 600,000-strong community across Instagram and LinkedIn, breaks down the visibility, shareability, and social SEO strategies behind her meteoric rise. Sophie shares the real story of how she went from overwhelmed university student to full-time creator with one of the most engaged marketing communities online. She unpacks: -The strategic “visibility opportunities” that fuel organic growth (and why it’s not about being everywhere) -How to design content that gets shared — from emotional triggers to identity-based resonance -Why social search and platform-specific SEO are becoming just as important as shares -The role of “thin content,” clear bios, and frictionless profile design in converting discovery into follows -How to use your existing audience to reach their audience — and build a community that sticks around for years Whether you’re building a personal brand, growing a startup’s social presence, or trying to break through on saturated platforms, this conversation will challenge how you think about reach, retention, and what it truly takes to build a loyal audience from zero. CallRail is the lead engagement platform built for marketers who need clean attribution, smarter insights, and zero missed leads. From AI-powered call tracking and conversation intelligence to a 24/7 AI voice agent, CallRail helps teams maximize every inbound touchpoint and convert more leads into customers. Visit https://www.callrail.com/proveit?utm_campaign=q4_2025_marketing_millennials_podcast&utm_medium=thirdparty_advertising&utm_source=marketingmillennials to check it out. Follow Sophie: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophiealicemiller/ Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/