The Long Game with Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer

New York Times reporter Jonathan Swan, co-author, along with Maggie Haberman, of the bestselling book Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer following Democrats’ sweeping midterm victory. As results continue to come in, they examine what drove the Republican defeat and what it means for Trump’s final two years in office. After the Iran war fractured Trump’s winning coalition, what can a Democratic Congress do to constrain a president with broad power over foreign policy?  Drawing on his reporting inside the White House, Swan explores the tension between political weakness and presidential power. Then, in The Wrap, Jake and Jon revisit their predictions, flag stories to watch, and share recommendations for what to read and watch. Upgrade to The Long Game+ on Apple to support the show and access exclusive audio segments. This week, Jake and Jon discuss the latest news from Iran. Is further US military escalation on the horizon? Join us on Substack for video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon with your questions and comments at [email protected]  Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. References and supplemental materials Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan,  Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump, Simon and Schuster,  June 2026 Jonathan Swan, Maggie Haberman, Ana Swanson, Paul Mozur, Tripp Mickle and Julian E. Barnes, “Nvidia Chief Seen as Target of Chinese Spy Plot,” The New York Times, October 29, 2026  Gideon Lewis-Kraus, “Computer Chips Are the Most Magnificent Things Humanity Has Ever Made,” The New Yorker, October 19, 2026  Conan O’Brien, “Conan’s Chaotic Bidet Ad Read,” Team Coco, December 23, 2023  The Diplomat, Netflix, October 15, 2026   Photo Credit: Brendan SMIALOWSKI / AFP via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Michael Kofman, defense analyst at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, returns to The Long Game as Russia intensifies its bombardment of Ukraine and decisions made in Washington reshape Kyiv’s ability to fight.  Kofman examines the gap between Russia’s military performance and its demands at the negotiating table; the leverage each side currently holds and the deadly consequences of throttling Ukrainian access to SpaceX’s Starlink and StarShield.  Upgrade to The Long Game+ on Apple to support the show and access exclusive audio segments.  Join us on Substack for video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]  Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. References and supplemental materials Alexander Ward, Natalie Andrews, and Josh Dawsey “Musk Ordered Starlink Slowdown That Blindsided Ukraine,” The Wall Street Journal, October 21, 2026  Photo Credit: Nikoletta Stoyanova/Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Israelis are preparing to vote in their first election since the October 7 terrorist attacks. Barak Ravid, global affairs correspondent for Axios, joins Jake and Jon to discuss the stakes of the election. Will Benjamin Netanyahu be re-elected for a historic seventh term as prime minister?  With polls exceedingly close, Barak explains the challenge Netanyahu’s opposition will face in translating their electoral support into a governing coalition. He also weighs in on what the elections will mean for Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza and the future of Pres. Trump’s Middle East agenda.  Drawing on his deep-sourced reporting and decades covering Israeli politics and the US-Israel relationship, Barak says October 7 is on the ballot and next week’s election will determine the future of Israeli democracy.  Access to video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]  Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. References and supplemental materials Barak Ravid and Marc Caputo, “Inside Trump, Netanyahu’s dilemma: Strike Iran before elections or wait,” Axios, October 13, 2026. Barak Ravid, “Trump tells Axios why he endorsed Netanyahu’s reelection,” Axios, October 18, 2026. Barak Ravid, “Biden tells Bibi he's concerned about Israel's judicial overhaul legislation,” Axios, September 20, 2023  Donald J. Trump, “President Donald J. Trump’s Comprehensive Plan to End the Gaza Conflict,” The American Presidency Project — White House press release, September 29, 2025. The American Presidency Project P5+1, European Union, and Iran, “Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action,” US Department of State, July 14, 2015. Photo credit: Jack GUEZ / AFP via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

President Trump has struck a diesel deal with Russia as fuel prices squeeze Americans. But what does easing restrictions on Russian exports mean for Ukraine and for efforts to end the war? Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer examine the deal’s potential economic impact, the growing tension between Washington and Kyiv, and the prospects for an energy ceasefire as winter approaches. Then, renewed fighting between Saudi Arabia and the Houthis raises difficult questions about American commitments in the Middle East. With Saudi airports and energy infrastructure under attack, could the United States or Israel enter the fight? What could either accomplish? Finally, an Options Memo for NATO’s Secretary General: How should the alliance respond if Russian sabotage kills civilians in a member country? Jake and Jon weigh “light,” “medium,” and “heavy” responses, exploring the challenge of restoring deterrence without triggering a wider war. Listen for the hard choices behind the headlines and the risks each carries. Access to video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. References and supplemental materials Gen. Alexus G. Grynkewich, Supreme Allied Commander Europe, NATO,  Theory of Victory: How Do We Achieve Military Success Against Russia in Deterrence and Defence?, Warsaw Security Forum, October 12, 2026. Feras Dalatey, “Amazon's AWS is unable to restore access to Bahrain, one UAE cloud data zone after war damage,” Reuters, September 15, 2026  Photo credit: Mohammed HUWAIS / AFP via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Javier Blas, Bloomberg Opinion’s energy and commodities columnist, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to explain why the Iran war has produced an oil market few expected: crude prices hovering around $100 a barrel while tankers are braving missile attacks, and sharper pain for people buying diesel, jet fuel, and heating oil. How has China’s retreat from the oil market changed the pressure on Washington and Tehran? Why are some traders reluctant to bet on higher prices even when they fear escalation? And how long can the improvised system keeping oil moving through the Strait of Hormuz hold together? Access to video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo credit: Patrick T. Fallon / AFP via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Anne Applebaum, Pulitzer Prize-winning author and staff writer at The Atlantic, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss how far-right ideology and private profit have become intertwined in the Trump administration’s approach to the world; the subject of her new cover story for The Atlantic.  They also examine the opaque U.S. oil arrangements in Venezuela, the campaign for political influence in Greenland, and the difficult work of rebuilding American institutions and alliances after Trump. For paid subscribers, Jake and Jon continue their conversation with Anne Applebaum. She details what changes to the White House and the Kennedy Center reveal about political power and culture in Washington.Subscribe to Long Game + on Apple or Substack for access and to support the show.  Access video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo Credit: Viktor Kovalchuk/Global Images Ukraine via Getty Images. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

PHOTO CREDIT China experts Jessica Chen Weiss, David M. Lampton Professor of China Studies at Johns Hopkins SAIS, and Julian Gewirtz, fellow at Harvard’s Belfer Center and senior research scholar at Columbia University, join Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer ahead of Chinese President Xi Jinping’s state visit to Washington. What does Xi hope to secure from President Trump—and what should the United States seek in return? Could the current truce become a durable détente, or is the relationship moving in two directions at once: greater stability at the top and deeper competition underneath? And as concern grows about advanced AI, can Washington and Beijing reduce the risks without resolving their fundamental distrust? The conversation also examines Taiwan, rare-earth export controls, China’s expanding global role, and the choices that could shape the relationship long after this week’s summit. For paid subscribers, Jake and Jon break down President Trump’s United Nations General Assembly speech in a special segment. Subscribe to Long Game + on Apple or Substack for access and to support the show.  Access video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo Credit:  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Julia Curlee, a former CIA analyst and acting senior director at the National Security Council, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to explain why she believes America’s intelligence system is being weakened from within. Curlee also discusses her experience briefing Vice President Mike Pence and why she left government after nearly 20 years. After the interview, Then to argue for and against reaching a deal with the U.S. and continuing  Beijing’s open-weight strategy. Access video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo Credit : Julia Curlee  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

25 Years After 9/11: Admiral McRaven’s Warning for America Retired Admiral William H. McRaven, former commander of U.S. Special Operations Command and Joint Special Operations Command, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer as the country marks the 25th anniversary of 9/11. McRaven recalls watching the attacks while recovering from a parachute accident, and later planning and executing the operation that brought Osama bin Laden to justice. They also examine why the Trump administration’s unexplained removal of senior military leaders could weaken candid advice and military preparedness; how special operations must adapt from counterterrorism to competition with major powers; and why America’s alliances remain essential to its security. Access video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo credit:  TSgt Rob Hazelett, PublicDomain Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says the U.S. is entering “the endgame” with Iran, launching what he calls an “economic D-Day.” Closer to home, U.S.-Canada trade talks have collapsed after Prime Minister Mark Carney rejected Washington’s latest demands.  Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer examine whether Operation Economic Outcast can change Iran’s calculus, why China holds the key, and why Canadians are backing a trade fight they expect to hurt. They also stage a Red Team/Blue Team debate over President Trump’s new cyber memo, which allows private companies to conduct offensive operations against foreign cybercriminals. Jon makes the case for the so-called cyber privateers, while Jake lays out the risks. Subscribe to The Long Game+ on Apple podcasts or on Substack for access to exclusive segments. This week, Jake and Jon tackle two listener questions: What should we make of CIA Director John Ratcliffe’s unannounced trip to Moscow? And, how did Jake and Jon manage the physical and mental toll of their years as national security advisors?  Video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more available on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo by ANDREJ IVANOV / AFP via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices