Saved by the City

This is a paperwork podcast! We love ourselves a good paperwork movie — that moment when the journalist's eyes get big as they zero in on the final piece of evidence that breaks the whole story wide open. Doesn't get much better than that. The movies might glamorize it a bit, but we both went into journalism believing that the work matters, that accountability is an effective mechanism for making people and organizations better. That's why the recent turmoil at Christianity Today, where we both began our journalism careers, has hit so hard.  Recently, the New York Times reported considerable staff turnover and layoffs at CT over the past 14 months. Some of the story here seems to be financial. But according to the Times report, former CT reporters and editors also raised questions over whether CT is departing from its commitment to journalism. The allegations are significant and alarming. We’ll hear from CT’s new president and CEO, Nicole Massie Martin, on accusations of editorial interference, the pressure on newsrooms and how CT has changed as MAGA politics reshaped evangelicalism. GUEST: The Rev. Nicole Massie Martin is president and CEO of Christianity Today. She is the author of several books, including "Nailing It: Why Successful Leadership Demands Suffering and Surrender" and "Made to Lead: Empowering Women for Ministry." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

AI is haunting us. Did you see the one with James Talarico writing on a Bible? Or how about the one with the Taliban-like characters roaming the streets of Georgia? This year's midterms have seen an explosion of AI political ads and, to be honest, they're giving us the heebie-jeebies. The midterms are spooky enough without the added horror of, you know, questioning reality. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy opine on the AI ads, do a rundown of religion in the midterms with RNS politics reporter Jack Jenkins, and turn our attention to a recent poll by Public Religion Research Institute that shows an "empathy gap" in our politics. We are joined by Robert P. Jones, the CEO and founder of PRRI, to discuss this new poll, whether white evangelicals are cooling on Trump and how the political landscape in America is shifting as we look toward a post-Trump era. GUESTS: Jack Jenkins is a national reporter for RNS, covering the intersection of religion and politics. He is the author of “American Prophets: The Religious Roots of Progressive Politics and the Ongoing Fight for the Soul of the Country.” Robert P. Jones is the president and founder of Public Religion Research Institute and a New York Times bestselling author. His newest book is "Backslide: Reclaiming a Faith and a Nation after the Christian Turn Against Democracy." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sure, AI can solve math problems ... but can it fix awkward coffee hour conversations? It's probably no surprise that a lot of pastors are using AI to "do research" for their sermons these days. According to a recent Barna Group survey, half of pastors said they use AI for brainstorming and idea generation. Around one-third said they're using it for graphic design (37%), researching biblical or theological topics (36%), generating discussion questions or small group material (34%) and for administrative tasks (34%). But then there's also the pastor who made a digital clone of himself to help with pastoral care. And the proliferation of worship music created by AI. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy are joined by Silicon Valley pastor, Jay Y. Kim, as they discuss where the line is on using AI as sacred collaborator — and what we lose when our churches become another space for optimizing efficiency.  GUEST: Jay Y. Kim is lead pastor of WestGate Church in Silicon Valley. He’s the author of "Analog Church: Why We Need Real People, Places, and Things in the Digital Age," and the new book, "The Pace of Peace: Distraction, Attention, and the Gifts of an Examined Life." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Deconstructing a Reconstructionist childhood... On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy consider what it would take to quit — like really quit — the religions of our childhood. Not just the faith, but the community. And, as two eldest daughters with an outsize sense of responsibility, we find the prospect daunting to say the least. That's what makes the women of the Deconstruction Doulas network so compelling — leaving a high-control religious environment takes serious bravery and gumption. We talk with Margaret Bronson, a co-founder of Deconstruction Doulas, about a more holistic approach to deconstruction and why these former real-life "tradwives" hear echoes of their own childhoods in today's national politics. GUESTS: Kathryn Post is a national reporter for RNS who recently traveled to Colorado Springs to cover a Deconstruction Doulas retreat for the article, "Inside the Deconstruction Doulas’ network for former tradwives and ‘ex-fundies.’" Margaret Bronson is a writer, advocate and co-founder of Deconstruction Doulas, a network offering peer support and resources to women leaving high-control religions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Theocrats and technocrats and autocrats, oh my! The AI apocalypse is nigh and while Katelyn and Roxy are making their end of the world plans, a set of rather strange bedfellows is insisting the real solution to our woes is ... a king? Have we read this story somewhere before? (cough, the Bible, cough.) On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk with Bradley B. Onishi about the powerful contingent of Christian Reconstructionists, reactionary Catholics and Silicon Valley magnates who are on a mission to replace American democracy with an authoritarian ruler. After all, who wants to worry about all those pesky checks and balances! GUEST: Bradley B. Onishi is the author of “American Caesar: How Theocrats and Tech Lords are Turning America into a Monarchy,” and a founding host of the podcast, "Straight White American Jesus." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Man buns, dabbing, ombre hair and the #girlboss … all things from 2016 that are now deceased. If a decade ago the girl boss was rising and grinding and leaning in, now she’s on her farm co-op in a prairie dress, warning her Instagram followers about pesticides and Big Pharma. There’s this feeling today that female hustle is kind of embarrassing — very “pick-me” energy — just trying too hard, which is the opposite of cool. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy offer a postmortem on a trend that we were very much part of. We leaned in, we showed up, we pitched and hustled and advocated for ourselves. Katelyn wrote a book about why it was OK to be a girl boss for Jesus, basically. All the same, we're not super sad to see the girl boss era end. We may not be living on farms (yet), but we're over here finding some joy in long walks and a decent night's sleep. The question now is (or maybe it always was): What role does work play in a well-ordered life? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are you a total woman? We've been waiting literal years for Kristin Kobes Du Mez's new book "Live Laugh Love." And here it is! Just in time for a new season of Saved By the City. One thing that struck us about Kristin’s new book is how much it centers on consumer products marketed to Christian women. It’s less a history of ideas from the top down and more a history of ideas from the ground up, via the things that white Christian women buy and sell. And so many of those cultural artifacts were familiar to us! Like "Love Comes Softly," by Janette Oke, or "Christy" by Catherine Marshall. Kristin’s book also features two of our favorite SBTC guests! Beth Moore and Amy Grant, of course. But as we’ll get into with Kristin, a lot of these cultural artifacts taught women to be happy despite the circumstances – to kind of accept their lot in life with a smile on their faces and to above all make their husbands happy. As Kristin explains, there’s a dark side to this power of positive thinking. GUEST: Kristin Kobes Du Mez is the author of "Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made" and the New York Times bestseller "Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation." She is a professor of history at Calvin University. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can you imagine a church without women? Us either. For as long as anyone alive today has been going to church, they've found the pews populated with more women than men. It's long been a given in American society that women are more religious than men. They pray more often, they attend church more often, they read their Bibles more often. But in the past quarter century, that gap has steadily been shrinking among young adults. As more young men claimed a religious identity, fewer women did. And in 2025, according to Gallup, young men surpassed young women claiming religion is important in their lives and church attendance among the younger set is tied between genders. What's happening here? While the focus has often been on the male side of that equation (look, young men are coming back to church!), the reality is the gender flip-flop has been driven more by young women's exodus. We wanted to know why women are leaving – and we wanted to hear some real-life stories. So we asked you! On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy hear from several listeners who offer their stories of leaving church — from the slow fade to the heartbreaking betrayal. We uncover some themes and discuss our own reasons for continuing to choose church (sometimes against all odds). Thank you again to the listeners who sent in their stories. And happy summer everyone! See you next season.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is it a sin to be a billionaire? What about to own a house when so many are displaced?  We're in a real "eat the rich" moment as tech billionaires flaunt their wealth on red carpets and flex their power behind presidents — all the while the wealth gap keeps growing and the AI boom threatens the livelihoods of millions. Revolutions have been fought over less. But is hating the rich biblical? Scripture certainly has a lot to say about greed — the love of money being the root of all evil and stuff like that — and the injustices it perpetuates. Yet, the invitation so often extended is to look inward and to examine one's own relationship toward money. On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy talk to Malcom Foley about the insidious legacy of greed on countries, systems and individuals. And why the antidote can be found in true Christian community.   GUEST: Malcolm Foley is the special advisor to the president for campus engagement at Baylor University and a co-pastor at Mosaic Waco, an intentionally multicultural, nondenominational church. He is the author of "The Anti-Greed Gospel: Why The Love of Money is the Root of Racism and How the Church Can Create A New Way Forward." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Were Weddings Always This...Extra?In our parents' generation, most weddings took place in a house of worship, followed by a cake and punch reception in the basement or a local VFW hall, and everyone was decked out in polyester. No one was going for a "viral moment," and videographers and photo booths weren't a thing. But something shifted in Roxy's and Katelyn's lifetimes: today, many couples feel every detail of their wedding needs to reflect their unique personalities, and the wedding industry has exploded, to the tune of $1 trillion globally in 2025. No wonder wedding planning feels by turns fun and exhausting. In this episode, as Katelyn prepares for her July wedding, and producer Jonathan prepares for his September one, we reflect on the pressures women, especially, face as they prepare; what values guide our planning; and how to stay present on the Big Day (pro tip: get a day-of coordinator if you can!).  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices