Free CliftonStrengths Training

In this episode, we dive into the often-overwhelming world of building a tech stack for your coaching business! We know the thought of sorting through all the technology options can make your eyes glaze over, but fear not! We break it down into manageable pieces, discussing everything from accounting software to payment processors, calendaring systems, and even email marketing tools. Adding tech to your process should save you time and money, not cause you headaches and cost you cash. Our goal is to help you streamline your processes so you can focus on what you do best – coaching! Are you ready to take your coaching business to the next level? Listen in as we share our personal experiences with different tools and provide recommendations that can help you build a solid tech foundation for a thriving coaching practice. 🌟 Work With Us! BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.     Takeaways ●      Define the Role of Your Tech Stack: Before diving into the myriad of tools available, it's crucial to understand the specific roles each piece of technology will play in your business. By treating your tech stack like a team of employees, you can make informed decisions that align with your business goals. This approach helps to reduce overwhelm and ensures that each tool serves a clear purpose. ●      Streamline Your Processes: Adding tech to your process should save you time and money, not cause you headaches and cost you cash. That's why integrating tech can have a great impact! For example, choosing a calendaring system that connects to your payment processor allows clients to pay at the time of booking. This not only eliminates the hassle of chasing payments later, but also enhances the customer experience by making it easy for them to do business with you. ●      Choose the Right Tools for Your Needs: Select tools that fit your current business stage. If you're just starting out, a simple spreadsheet might suffice for managing client relationships instead of investing in a complex CRM system. Remember, the goal is to make the tools work for you, and only pay for what you need. Choose tools that will genuinely save you time and effort.   Take Action ●      Evaluate Your Tech Needs: Reflect on the specific jobs your tech stack needs to accomplish in your coaching business, such as marketing, sales, or delivery of services. This will help you make informed decisions about which tools to invest in. ●      Choose a Payment Processor: Set up a payment processor (we recommend Stripe) to streamline your payment collection process. Ensure it integrates with your scheduling system to allow clients to pay when they book appointments. ●      Implement an Online Scheduling System: Tools like Calendly, TidyCal can manage your appointment setting, communications, and follow-ups efficiently. Book Like A Boss is a powerful all-in-one that also allows you to build landing pages, sell digital products, and more! ●      Explore Email Marketing Options: If your current tools (like your website or scheduling app) can handle your email needs, keep it simple. But if you need a dedicated email marketing platform, consider options like Flodesk, Emma, or Kit (formerly known as ConvertKit, affiliate link). ●      Our other shoutouts: ○      Accounting: Quickbooks Online ○      Website: WordPress, Squarespace, Showit, Book Like A Boss ○      Web/Email Domain: Domain.com, Google Workspace ○      CRM: Hubspot ○      Marketing: BombBomb ○      Graphic Design: Canva   🎧 Listen now and let me know your thoughts! What tools are you using in your tech stack?   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   AI-Generated Transcript Lisa: I'm Lisa.   Brea: I'm Brea.   Lisa: And today we are talking about the tech stack in your coaching business.   Brea: Yes. Okay, so before people's eyes glaze over when we talk about all the tech and all the details, this is such a good topic because we need it. You need to get these systems and these processes in place in order to be more free to do what you do best, you know? So I'm so excited to talk about this. I've learned so many things the hard way.   Lisa: Now you are making me think of a song because Tech Stack makes me think of nerdy. So I'm thinking of like the band Devo wearing those nerdy hats and the song Whip It. Like you got to whip yourself into shape. Shape it up. Like, yeah. Whip it good. Yeah, that's totally it. And you said freedom and that I think that album was called Freedom of Choice. So it is all coming up with the nerdery right there.   Brea: That is so funny. I don't think I've ever heard that song in its entirety, but I recognize it from a movie with Kate Hudson. I don't remember which one, some rom-com, probably with her and Matthew McConaughey, but there's a scene where they're dancing to it. So I understand the reference. I get it. Okay. Okay.   Lisa: Well, it'll make it a little more fun. Let's do it. Let's do it. Now we move into the exciting topic of things like accounting software.   Brea: Yes. So we don't need to define this, okay? But I do want to just like set a little foundation. I think when we talk tech, when we talk systems, processes, things like this, it's important, at least for me, it's important to remember what is the job of the tech stack, the thing in the stack, right? What is the job that I'm trying to accomplish? Is it marketing? Is it sales? Is it delivery of your product or your service? Is it scaling? Is it, you know, what is the job that you're trying to give it. So I like to think of them almost as, you know, an employee or a contractor. Like, what's the role? And then that helps me to make the decisions instead of just being totally overwhelmed with all the details of the specificity of things. You know, hopefully that might help.   Lisa: I agree. I think it's good decision criteria too because a lot of people talk about getting subscription fatigue because most of these are recurring subscriptions. Then if you look at it as a contractor and you say, if I paid a person to do this manually, what would that look like in the business? How would the cost compare? How would the service compare? How would the results compare? And sometimes you could have a human doing these things. examples, like if we start with accounting, you can, if you have five customers for the year when you're starting off and it's a side hustle and you don't really have much business, unless you just want to learn the software, you could use a spreadsheet and just give it to your accountant. So you could use something you're already paying for, like your Google Workspace or whatever you're using where you would have a spreadsheet available to you. So there are times when you could do the on the cheap version or use a human version until you get into the recurring software.   Brea: Yeah, I love it.   Lisa: What do you use for accounting?   Brea: Oh gosh, do we have to start with accounting? We'll just get it over with, you know. Well, in the tenure of my business, is that the right word? I've used spreadsheets, okay, so been there, done that, and if that's you, no judgment. I use QuickBooks, QuickBooks Online, yeah, because that's what my accountant uses, so. Okay, me too. I don't do accounting. I pay someone to do that for me.   Lisa: Okay. Me too. I use QuickBooks online. Some people use Xero. Some people use FreshBooks. There are other things out there, but QuickBooks, at least in the US, that seems to be what accountants prefer. You could just give them access. They get access to the back end of it. It makes life pretty clean and clear and simple.   Brea: Yeah, I actually really love using Stripe for my payment processor, which is not the accounting software, but adjacent.   Lisa: Yeah, let's get into payment processing. So, okay, you use Stripe. I also use Stripe. I think Most small business owners starting up training, coaching, speaking businesses, you'll probably want to go over and have a Stripe account because it integrates with just about every software. So if you're like, what in the world is a payment processor? What are you guys talking about? It's essentially somebody takes a few percentage points and it allows you to accept credit cards and have that money electronically delivered to your business bank account. Kind of easy way to say it. And Stripe connects to, like, if you find any software out there that allows you to sell through it, like a very good example is your calendaring system. If you're a coach, especially a one-on-one coach, you really want a calendar system that allows you to accept payment as they book. Because then you don't have to spend a lot of your delivery hours chasing payments. They just pay when they book. So those will often be, we can talk about the calendaring systems next, but payment processor, if you have Stripe, for example, connected to your calendaring system, now you're done.   Brea: Yeah, that's right. You know, I think Stripe is quickly becoming kind of a gold standard. It integrates with anything that I've tried to integrate it with. It allows me to take Apple Pay and Google Pay and credit cards and debit cards and ACH. And there are so many international currencies that it processes. I mean, there's so much you can do. The thing that I love most about Stripe and probably the feature that I use most is the ability to create payment links. So when I don't want to do a full invoice, I just want to take a credit card really fast, I can do that. I can create a custom link for a custom amount and send it to someone and then boom, it's done. You can also use the payment links on your website or other places where you want to have a button for people to click. You know, they click the button and then boom, it goes straight to the payment page and you know, it's done. Yeah. Right on. But other payment processors would be like PayPal or Square or Venmo or Zelle or that's what we're talking about. Yes.   Lisa: Yes, yes. Okay. Let's talk about calendaring because if you are a one-on-one coach, really, you've got to be able to accept payments as you book. It's just, it just makes financial sense to have someone pay when you book. Yes, yes, yes. Just do it. And if you don't believe me now, when you're fully booked, you'll believe me and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm chasing payments. I did not want to be a collector. Okay, so that's one element of calendaring. If you're a speaker or a trainer, you want your calendaring or a one-on-one coach for things like discovery calls, prospect calls. Pre-event calls, things like that. You really want an online calendaring system. Some people use a VA or a personal assistant to do their calendaring, and some people do prefer that. But they are so sophisticated now. I mean, you can tell it, I take these kind of calls on this day of the week. And only from this hour to this hour, but on this kind of call, I take them on this day of the week. It's really cool what they do. So any thoughts on calendaring before we talk about which technologies we use?   Brea: Yeah, I mean, I agree. If you are not Not that you have to always sync up your payment with scheduling, but if you haven't done that at all, you know, if you're not taking advantage of that, it's such a great way to make it easy for the customer and easy for you. So when I think of tech stack, any tech stacks, it's always how can I improve this process for the customer? How can I make it easy for them to do business with me and easy for them to pay me? It's just the worst when you've done all the work to get the sale and then they can't find the cash register anywhere. It happens so many times on your website or whatever. Go here to schedule, and then go here to pay, and then go here to do this, and go here to do that. And it's just make it easy. Just do it all, all together. I think that's so, so good.   Lisa: I mean, have you ever gone to a store? This is what you're making me think of. You Can't Find the Cash Register made me think of when you have an item in your hand, and then you see, oh my gosh, the line is so long at the register. That's going to take 45 minutes. That barrier is too high. And that is the same thing as when They have to go back and forth with you or your human, even if you have a personal assistant, that might seem cool. But what if they have to go back and forth 6 times to find a time that works versus being able to click? So I feel like that's sending them into that line with 45-minute wait to check out.   Brea: I love it. Yep, I love it.   Lisa: All right, what do you use today?   Brea: So I still use Calendly. I've used Calendly almost the entire time that I've been in business. Every now and then, go check something else out to see, you know, can I get rid of this, whatever it is, $12, $13 a month? Like, can I get rid of that? Because TidyCal is $20 one time or, you know, for a lifetime or something like that. But I always come back to Calendly. It just has improved so much and has a lot of those opportunities to customize like what you were saying. It does everything, even like group events now. It's not just the one on one. They have grown into being able to schedule a workshop. If I wanted to do a public workshop, people can go in and buy one seat. So, really, there's nothing that I need that it doesn't do. So, I'm a Calendly girl. How about you?   Lisa: Awesome. They keep stepping their game up. I was a Calendly girl for most of the years of my business. I currently use TidyCal. And I've used Acuity. Acuity was my first one and it's very solid. And I think as far as integrations, Calendly integrates with the most other software, so it can make your life much simpler that way. But I've been really happy with TidyCal as well. So I would say any of the three of those are great. And there are several more that are absolutely solid as well. Just get one. Get one that integrates with the software that you use. get one that accepts payments, but you're right. I love to experiment with one-time fee software, and if you're not familiar with AppSumo, A-P-P-S-U-M-O. Come on, guess. They have a lot, like TidyCal and BreezeDoc and a bunch of these pieces of software. BreezeDoc is for signatures. Instead of buying DocuSign, if you don't have a high volume in things, they have a lot of software that has one-time fees or a lifetime fee or a low fee and they just basically have these deals out on AppSumo. You could waste a lot of time just buying cool software, so there's of course that to look out for.   Brea: Guilty. I know so many years ago, my introduction to AppSumo was through Book Like a Boss, obviously a scheduling app. And at the time, it just wasn't where I needed it to be. But now it's actually really great, you know. But my Calendly is just it's set up. It's so sophisticated. I've got everything I need. I just can't imagine. switching, you know? But yeah, that's another one you could check out is Book Like a Boss. Especially if you don't want to get into the whole website game, Book Like a Boss allows you to create landing pages for different products. And it's super, super affordable. So it does more than what a normal scheduling app would do for a fraction of the price.   Lisa: Cool. Yeah. Well, let's take that mention to just go into websites, because there are people in two camps. I'm of a camp, you need a website. And it's fine, like anything that you could use what you just described, Book Like a Boss, and you could go get coachjohn.com and redirect it to your Book Like a Boss page. And I would still consider that having a web presence. But you need a domain name that you can give a person on the street that you meet, go to this web page, and it can redirect them to something scrappy that you've made through that, or Coach Accountable, or even Canva. I have a template for people to make a website on Canva to have something that you can get up within a couple of hours. So it doesn't have to be that hard. Get something. But it does look so much more professional to have a real domain name with a real email address. And by real, you can hear my quotes and my voice. Have that domain name. Because especially to corporate clients, this matters. It makes it look like you're a professional versus a rookie. And I think that is important. So personally, that's my vote. I use WordPress. That is not the simple way. That is hiring a designer and doing the thing. Today, if I started over, I would probably pick Squarespace today, but you can do Squarespace, Weebly, Wix. but I do use WordPress and if you want to do fancy things on your site then the amount of plugins that are available is really incredible and it does give you some mega power to be using a WordPress site. What do you use, Brea?   Brea: I found a home in Squarespace. Squarespace has really evolved a lot where they have You can do email campaigns now. I actually purchase my Google Workspace. Through Squarespace, I'm able to purchase that Google email, hello at briaroper.com. And I think that's what you're talking about, right? When you say like you need a real email, like an email that matches your domain. Like not a Gmail. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think, yeah, we all get that. I, especially when I see Yahoo or AOL, you know, it's just like, like, that's just not a real, it's not a real business, you know? So get your domain name and you can do all of that through Squarespace. You probably pay a little bit more of a premium because they're handling it all, but it's just easier to not have to buy your domain over here from, you know, GoDaddy or domain.com or whatever. And your Google workspace and you know have all these small bills. I just do it all through Squarespace. So it's easy   Lisa: I bet you inspired a lot of people who don't want to handle all the invoices, but also they don't have their email address because it seems intimidating. Like I have to buy a domain. What's a host? What's a registrar? How do I go? How do I set up my website? And then how do I do all these connections? And I'm going to have to spend a half a day trying to get my email to work and be able to receive it. And can I get it on my phone? And how is it going to go down? The execution of it all is so intimidating. I think for people to hear what you just said is possible will make people feel like, oh, okay, good. Somebody's making it easy. Yeah.   Brea: You know, another platform that I love is ShowIt. Are you familiar with ShowIt? just mildly. Okay. It's so easy. It's drag and drop like Canva or like Wix. It's easy for beginners like that, but it pairs with WordPress for blogging, which WordPress, I mean, it just is too sophisticated for me, you know, but like you said, it has so much power. It does so many things and their blogs are excellent through WordPress. So ShowIt pairs with WordPress for blogging. And it's just so pretty. It's so like the templates are just, in my opinion, so far and above any of the other platforms, including Squarespace. So big shout out to ShowIt. ShowIt.   Lisa: Nice. OK, so since you're bringing up the platforms that are easy to work with and also have beautiful templates. You made me think of people's comments on Flowdesk as their email marketing software. I love Flowdesk, yeah. And I am a Kit user, formerly called ConvertKit, and I love it. I'm an affiliate for Kit. I think it is great software. I use it. I have funnels. I make landing pages. I have a light e-commerce. You can sell digital products on there. It's just really easy to use. The automations are beautiful. I'm really into automations. As you know, if you've heard Brea call me the evergreen queen, I have years worth of emails that come out and that's all set through these really easy visual automations that Kit allow. So I'm into Kit for email marketing. I know you are not an email marketing gal. Do you have an email marketing software outside of what you described in Squarespace?   Brea: Yeah, I mean, let's not forget that I have a background in marketing, so I've used plenty of things over the years. I just don't love it. So yeah, I think Flowdesk, love. There's also a smaller company out of Nashville called Emma, and I love it. It's super, super yummy and beautiful, like Flowdesk. And it's a smaller company that I love, you know, just love supporting. Supporting the small guys. Okay. HubSpot also comes to mind. It's not, you know, that might transition us into the CRM discussion, but HubSpot also does email marketing. Squarespace, you know, I use that too, so.   Lisa: MailerLite, Constant Contact, Active Campaign, Aweber. I mean, there are so many. I had, I'm not going to name it because I think it's terrible, but one that I used that was terrible And I guess this is what I'll throw out before we move topics is, yes, I love Kit. I have a lot of reasons to love Kit. I love that it lets you do all those extras, but in a very simple, streamlined way. And mostly it's just great at sending email and it makes it easy in the user face to figure it out so that it doesn't feel intimidating. But think about long-term. So some of these offer really good free trial or free levels. Kit has a free level that allows you to have up to 10,000 subscribers, but of course these free ones are de-featured. So for example, you can have one automation, one sequence, if you get on the free version of Kit, they give you a lot of subscribers. But for me, I have like 40 different automations running. So that's not, that obviously wouldn't work even if I had 10,000, you know, under 10,000. So look at them. They, they tend to all have tiers. So look how they do their pricing tiers and see if that feels like it will work for you.   Brea: Yeah. I want to stay on email just for a minute because, you know, everybody, everybody needs email marketing of some kind. Some things to consider might be using it to nurture your leads. dripping content that might be part of the different automations that you might do. Also reminding people about their events, which Calendly or your scheduler might do that as well. So you might not need a separate email marketing platform to email about the coaching package, you know, or the coaching events. So it's good to think, do I actually need a dedicated email marketing something, something, or can my website do it, right? Can my scheduling app do it? I don't know, that's where I've found I bought too many things and kind of spread myself too thin and I was able to streamline my process by utilizing things that I already had, you know?   Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. Love all of that. And if you can get what you need out of an all-in-one, there are very powerful all-in-ones, but a lot of times what I think will happen is what you're describing. Somebody's in Squarespace and they're like, hey, they don't bill themselves as an email marketing software. No one would go to them thinking, I'm doing my research on email marketing, but they find them because they're like, oh, I already have a a website here and they cover me for the basics. I think it's a great way to get started. And then also just in the back of your mind, have a plan. When I get to X number of subscribers or this level of sophistication with how I want to roll out a product, then I'm going to switch over and there will be switching costs because it's a pain in the rear. And you have to usually pay someone to do a bunch of migrations. And any time you switch, it'll be a pain. But it's OK. That's just that's the cost of growth. And it should be an exciting milestone, even though it's a frustrating project.   Brea: Yeah. Can I throw out one more email marketing adjacent? I love video. I love being on video. I love sending videos. And so I use something called BombBomb. which is video in your email and integrates with my Gmail. So I can, if I'm in my Gmail inbox, there's a little, a little bum bum button where I can just quickly add a video to the email. It can be either live, like it'll just turn on my camera and I talk into the email and then boom, I send it. So there's no uploading. There's no downloading. There's no, you know, any of that exporting and all the things. It's just there's a little button that's in my Gmail. So if I want to use my strengths of communication and and talk to them, I can do that. And then also I can set up email marketing sequences and do all the things, you know, but just. With video. So I'm a huge huge fan.   Lisa: I love that for Walking someone through a proposal feels totally custom like here. I'm gonna send you this document, but I'm going to talk you through it and There's a technique out there where they have a whiteboard or something and it has your name I'm gonna say that's my favorite thing to do So that and the thumbnail they know this video is specific to me this video doesn't go out in every email this bit I made this video for you So, that one definitely gets me. When I see a video, even if I think the product has nothing to do with me, if it says Lisa somewhere on it, I know they did it for me, then I'll give them that time of day and I'll watch it for a couple minutes.   Brea: Right. Why wouldn't you? Absolutely. I really do think that especially if your strengths are good on video, I mean, you can't sleep on it. It's such a tool for you. And there are so many ways for you to use it in your business that you're not using it right now. So this is appealing to those of you who love video and are strong on video. There are so many more ways that you can you can apply it. And email is one of those ways that we just don't think about. I would much rather receive a 20 second video from someone saying, it was so great to get coffee with you. Thank you so much. Seeing that person that you just networked with and had a great interaction with, right? getting an email from them that said, hey, it was great meeting you. Have a nice day. Or re-experiencing in just a quick 20-second video, you're brought back to that conversation that you had or that exchange that you had. You see their face, you feel their energy, and it's so much stronger, you know? It's so much stronger. Sold. And it's faster.   Lisa: Yeah, sold. Yeah. OK, I'm done. You're selling me on this. I don't use BonBon currently, but now I'm sold. It's so good. Well, let's talk about one. This feels like the final foundational, most kind of critical path is talking, and no, I'm not even going to say CRM. I'm going to say platforms for memberships, courses, communities, because I know you're excited about that, Brea, and it is, more likely critical than CRM systems, even though people will obsess over those from day one. So let's make sure we talk memberships, courses, communities. What do you like for hosting?   Brea: Oh, well, I'm a Mighty Networks girl. I mean, from almost the beginning, when Gina launched it, I just, I love it. And they continue to upgrade, continue to add features. Every week I'm getting emails with, hey, we just added this, and now you can do this. So I love Mighty Networks.   Lisa: Cool, cool. And stay tuned, everyone, because you'll hear about Brea's Strengths Hub, which is hosted on Mighty Networks.   Brea: Yeah, that's right. In another episode though, yeah?   Lisa: Yeah, oh yeah, we totally, that needs its own episode. Of course you can use Circle, of course some people use Facebook groups. I host my courses on ThriveLearn, so you might have heard Brea say the word ThriveCart, and ThriveCart is a software that allows you to have a cart system and a full-on e-commerce, so if you're selling If you're selling a digital product that's more than like, here's your one page PDF, I think having a more robust cart system and delivery system is useful. They also have a module called Thrive Learn, which is their learning management portal. So you can build a course in Thrive Learn and host it there. And then you can have your checkout process through Thrive Cart, the cart system, your checkout page, a sales page, however you want to do it. It includes those things Brio was talking about, upsells if you want to do those. I've been Definitely satisfied with ThriveCart and ThriveLearn, but I also would say it's quirky. If you're listening to this and you know me and you're like, oh, I want to get into that, reach out to me and I'll think through some of the pros and cons to give you. It's not quite as intensive as WordPress, but it's more like that. It's effortful software compared to some where it's like, I click this button and what I see is what the user sees and it's super easy. it's not that.   Brea: I love those kinds of things. That's my, that's my jam. Yeah. So we, we kind of threw out there CRM. If you don't know what that means, it stands for customer relationship management system, right? A CRM system or a CRM program or platform or whatever. But this is where, um, you do need a place to, To keep all of your people, you know, so you want a place where you see your pipeline? Visually, right what what is out there? What are you working on who are you talking to when was the last time you talked to a Previous customer, right? When when will you follow up with them next? I mean that's Having a system that helps you manage those relationships. That's what a CRM does I have used HubSpot, I've used other things like that, but I use Mighty Networks to do all of these things. Mighty Networks really is my all-in-one. It does my email marketing, it does my community building, it's where I store resources. I don't have a vault per se, but that would be my vault. There are things in there that people in the community can access, right? So it does all those things and it integrates with Zoom. It's just like, that's my all-in-one that I really, really love. So I'm excited to share more about that in another episode. But again, I think you don't have to, you might need to, or you might want to have unique tech for all of the different things, I've found that I enjoy having all those things in one place.   Lisa: Yeah, and you may or may not need this. The reason why I get on my rants about, hey look, don't obsess about your CRM before you have five clients because just stick it in a spreadsheet, you know? Like, or if you don't do one on one clients, so you don't have a giant list, like, for example, there were years when I had 15 active clients, it didn't sound like that many, but I would have 50 events for some of them each per year. But then it was more about event management, not so much about managing the individual customers. So it was very easy to use customer information and QuickBooks or tagging them in Kit, and I could get all the info I needed. And then the rest of it was just in Asana, where we did our project management. So you could have a very thriving business and depending on Whether you have high volume with a few number of customers or a lot of customers to keep up with, a lot of prospects to keep up with, then you sure, you know, you probably do need a CRM to prompt you. You can use Pipedrive, Keap, K-E-A-P, Zoho, HubSpot, GoHighLevel, Kajabi. So there are a lot of them to choose from.   Brea: Yeah. And again, remember, what's the job of the tech? So if a CRM is, is a system to manage your customer relationships, but you don't have any customers yet, you don't need a CRM, right? Or you only have five or 10, like you can manage those relationships without a very complicated and robust, but complex Salesforce, um, program. And expensive, by the way. So pay for what you need. Pay for what helps you. Pay for the things that save time, that save money for you in other places. But you don't need a CRM if you don't have a lot of relationships to manage. And you might be managing those relationships through email, right? So your email marketing might kind of serve as customer relationship management if the managing that you're doing is nurturing those relationships by dripping them content or by keeping them up to date in your email. but you're not planning on reaching out to them or making sales calls or things like that, you know, you don't need a CRM. You can just manage those relationships through email or, like I do, through the Mighty Network, you know. So just   Lisa: Let it become a need before the spend. Yeah, yeah. They all have helpful bits. I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year not using a CRM. I didn't need to have it ping me to say to reach out to a prospect. I was getting more prospects than I could possibly handle. So it was great. I didn't need it to do that. So I just used email marketing exactly as you described. I use it to keep up with and nurture the relationships and that all happened through my email marketing platform.   Brea: Yeah. So I love having a CRM because it helps me visualize the different. I mean, I've used pipeline, I've used pipe drive because I need that. I need a place where I can go and see these are the people that I reached out to. These are the prospects. These are the things that are in the pipeline, you know, and I can see where they are. You know, am I at the very beginning? Are we close to the end? That makes sense for my brain and I want a visual representation where I can see all the different deals that I'm working on at once, you know, and where they are in the progress. And I also love their relationship management aspect of, you know, when's your birthday? Or I love doing a little reach out when it's their CliftonStrengths anniversary, because on their, on the reports, it tells you when they took the assessment. So I love like following up, you know, those little reach outs. That's where a CRM is helpful because you can put all that data in there and a spreadsheet gets really full really fast.   Brea: So, again, just remember, like, what's the job that you want it to do for you? And then figure out what tech do I need or what tech best supports that job, you know, that I'm looking to fill. There might be aspects of the CRM that you want to use, but could be done by a different type of tech or vice versa.   Lisa: I love it. That is a beautiful way to describe when things that CRMs are great for that the other pieces of software wouldn't do. I want to give an honorable mention to Canva because even though I don't consider it to be the most critical when you're starting your business. It has been one of the most important pieces of software. I use it every, probably every day, definitely every week. It has such incredible power. And when I left and found that I had an alternative to using PowerPoint for design, for my delivery, everything from creating images to videos to editing, editing a photo, like just having a photo editor and not having to buy Photoshop, all kinds of things. I love, love, love Canva. So there's my 20 second Canva commercial.   Brea: Do you have one? I also am a Canva girl. I do have a graphic designer that I hire out marketing assets and my logo, my brand, things like that, especially any printed things. I usually have her design. But for digital stuff, for quick things, I mean, Canva does so much. So I use it. you know, I use it to create the images for the podcast. I use it to create so many things. So Canva Pro, I am a subscriber and it's worth it to me for sure. Yeah. Same. I use it for presentations and slide decks a hundred percent. It's so much prettier and so much easier than Google Slides or PowerPoint or anything. And you can, again, talk about something that has like really grown over time. I mean, Canva continues to really innovate. And now not only can you design your slide decks in Canva, but you can present from Canva. And now you can present offline too, which is great. So there's, it just continues to get better and better and better.   Lisa: Yeah, they have added so many AI features in the recent months and even I mentioned website. If you don't have a website, you can literally build a website as a type of when you click create, it's like you want to create a document, a social media image, whatever. Website is one of the choices and then you click publish and all you have to do is redirect your domain name to that link they give you. It's wild what you can do.   Brea: So easy, yeah. I actually love teaching coaches how to use Canva, so if you're interested in learning more about all the things that you can do in Canva, come find me and I'll add you to the list to be invited to the next, you know, Next thing, one thing that I love creating in Canva that I used to pay my graphic designer to do for me and now I don't have to anymore is customized top five cards for like a lanyard or just a postcard for a workshop or whatever. She designed the card itself, but now Canva actually has a mail merge feature that not a lot of people know about. What? There you go. See?   Lisa: I wouldn't have even thought to ask it to do that. It's amazing. So incredible and there's so much I know if you're a listener and you're like this episode alone Was a ton to think about write down Map out and I have all these other questions. What if I want to make a quiz on my website? What about a PDF editor? What about those documents signing? I mean, there's so much software that you'll find crops up the need or the desire for it will crop up as you go through your business. So if you want a mega list, I have one, you go to leadthroughstrengths.com/techstack. And I have this list with every category I could think of the day that I made the list. It's pretty big. It's six pages of technology, where it's like, I need X category. What can I look at? It'll give you that. And then I also put asterisks by the basically the foundational tech stack stuff that we talked about today. So, you know, if you're getting started, you don't want to kill yourself with the six pages worth of things to go figure out. And then I put my specific tech stack in there. If you're like, well, what do you use? What do you buy? I have that in here as well.   Brea: I love it. And of course you can come and talk to me and other listeners at our biweekly meetups. So if all of this sounds a little bit overwhelming, you want some clarity around some of the things we've talked about, or you want to learn from other listeners what they're, what they're using, um, come join us on zoom. So we meet every other week. Come to my website, BreaRoper.com to get the invite.   Lisa: We'll see you in there.     Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.  

In this episode, we dive into a lively showdown between two powerful strategies for nurturing relationships: email marketing vs. online communities.   You'll hear us engage in a playful showdown, where we throw down our best arguments for why our preferred method is the ultimate way to nurture relationships. As we explore the virtues of each approach, you'll learn about the power of automation and the certainty of email marketing, and the real-time engagement and community-building magic that comes from private online spaces.   So, whether you're team email or team community, or just curious about how to nurture your connections, this episode is packed with fun banter and valuable takeaways! 🌟 Work With Us! BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.   Takeaways ●      Automation in Email Marketing: One of the standout points from our discussion is the incredible efficiency that email marketing offers through automation. With just a little upfront effort, you can create content that continues to nurture your audience for years to come. Imagine spending an hour crafting a message that can be reused and repurposed over a decade! This longevity allows you to stay top-of-mind with your audience, even if they don't open every email. Email marketing shines with its ability to automate and reuse content over time. You can create a nurturing sequence that continues to engage your audience for years, maximizing the value of your efforts. ●      Real-Time Engagement in Online Communities: On the flip side, we explored the dynamic nature of online communities. Unlike email, where messages can get lost in crowded inboxes, a private online community allows for real-time interaction and engagement. Members can set their preferences to see exactly what they want, fostering a more personalized experience. This two-way communication not only builds stronger relationships but also empowers members to support each other, creating a vibrant ecosystem of collaboration. ●      Choose What Fits Your Style: Ultimately, the episode emphasizes that the best approach depends on your personal strengths and preferences. Whether you lean towards email marketing or online communities, aligning your strategy with your unique style will yield the best results.   Take Action ●      Explore Email Marketing Tools: Check out Lisa's Tools for Coaches membership group and consider using Kit to access pre-built email sequences and automations that can simplify your email marketing efforts. ●      Engage in Online Communities: Consider creating or joining a private online community to facilitate real-time interactions and connections. Start with the Lead Through Strengths Podcast Meetup, hosted by Brea. ●      Experiment with Content: Test different types of content in both email and community settings. For email, consider sending personalized messages that feel genuine, while in a community, encourage members to share their insights and support each other.   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   AI-Generated Transcript Lisa: I'm Lisa. or Mrs. T   Brea: I'm Brea. Iced T   Lisa: And, uh, we have our alter egos with us today because we're doing a showdown, like a rap battle about nurturing with email marketing or with a community. And it's the battle. I, Mrs. T, I'm there for the email marketing camp.   Brea: and Ice-T checking in, yo, yo, yo. I'm here for the online community. We gotta have a rap battle before we start. All right, okay. Yo, yo, yo, iced tea in the ring. I ain't here just to flex. I'm here to build something. Ooh, iced tea chases clout.   Lisa: Try to burn real quick, but I'm laying foundations brick by brick.   Brea: Oh, I feel burned, incinerated. You win. That was great.   Lisa: Gosh. And my positivity wants to stop immediately with the rap battle because I just want us to have mutual respect and not burn each other.   Brea: I mean, I do respect email marketing, but let's be honest, it's the worst.   Lisa: Online community all the way. I know. I'm in a tough camp, but as Mrs. T, I pity the fool that does not have email marketing on your side because it has so many virtues and people love to hate on it. It's not right.   Brea: I know. The irony is not lost on me that for probably six to seven years of my life, people paid me to write email campaigns for them, you know, and, and create funnels and all the things and I just am so over it. So yeah, I'm excited for the battle. Let's go.   Lisa: Okay, okay. Well, let's just start with the virtues of each and we get to give our debates about like, hey, this is why my thing is such a great thing. And of course, in the end, okay, spoiler alert for everyone. I know that communities are great. Bria knows that email marketing can be great. We believe that having both could be amazing, but we're totally gonna go with our characters and stay true to the one we're fighting for today.   Brea: Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Yeah.   Lisa: Right?   Brea: Oh my gosh.   Lisa: We're so tough. Can't you just feel the chains on me?   Brea: I know. I can see the like gold grill. Wait. Oh, that's Flava Flav with the big clock. Yeah. Anyways. Okay. Let's do it. I'm ready.   Lisa: Okay.   Brea: You want to go first?   Lisa: Sure. Okay. Let me give a major virtue of email marketing. I'm going to call it automation and systems, but the way this comes out is you can spend an hour building some content and you put it in your email system as an email and you added it to some nurture sequence or sequences, even better. You can spend that one hour and reuse it for A decade. And this is where email marketing shines because you can write that thing, put it in your systems, which takes a little bit more effort to create sequences and possibly tagging people by interest so it can be really individualized to them. And then you can reuse it eternally. I love that. You just get so much use out of your time.   Brea: Yeah. I mean, hello, Maximizer. I hear that for sure, for sure. So tell me, tell me how you're seeing this sustainability and the longevity from your email sequences. Like, are you actually reusing them year over year or quarterly? Or tell me, tell me more about that.   Lisa: Okay. So it can be, Yes, it can be reused. You're not going to remember something you saw two years ago that you may or may not have opened two years ago, right? So yes, you can reuse. If you make timeless content, it hits people different at different moments, different phases in their lives. So that's really cool. And then I think really. One of my other major, major loves for, and cases for email marketing is certainty. It's certainty that you can keep in touch every single one. lands in their box. And even if you don't open it, it keeps coming by. And after a handful of times, I know that person's name. So if they see Lisa Cummings lead through strengths and then they've been deleting it for six weeks and then they're like, oh yeah, I really need to focus on my strengths right now. And then they start reading them again. Or the best scenario that happens to me, people hit reply a year or more later and book me for events. It's happened over the 11 years I've been in business. It's happened many, many, many times. It's so cool. They've just been passively and lightly reading messages. I don't even know it, but they've been receiving them. Like, I've been on their mind in some small way, or Strengths has been on their mind in some small way, and then it's time to book their team retreat, and they're like, hey, we're doing a team retreat. Are you available on these days? That is so cool. So cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a cool value of email marketing that I've experienced over the years.   Brea: Yeah. Yeah. So this is interesting because I'm thinking of so many objections to what you're saying. I mean, I could tell you 10 ways that I'm certain that I have not read the emails that are in my email inbox. I actually have several what I call throwaway email addresses that I give to people specifically for promotions, right? And I don't ever check that email inbox, right? So I think what you're saying is the certainty is in relation to the algorithm. And so I think that's where I'm going to put online communities in the ring up against email marketing. That is something that I love about the online community. And I'm not talking about Facebook. I'm talking about private online community. So this is not a Facebook group or a LinkedIn group. This is a mighty network or a circle. This is a place where algorithms don't live. So here's where I think we agree. I am certain that every time I post something to my community, it will show up in their feed, you know, and they can set settings inside of your community to say, I want to see everything in my feed, or I only want to see posts about this strength, or I only want to see posts about live events or, you know, whatever. So they can really be in control of how much, how little, what type of content or they want to see everything, you know. And I think that that is so much better than social media and something similar, you know, with email marketing in that way.   Lisa: Yeah, if we had a battle rap with social media, we would both be dissing battle.   Brea: No, I appreciate social media, but social to me feels very similar to what you're talking about with emails, where even if people don't read it, they're seeing your name pop up, you know. But I think what I love about online communities is it allows me to really get my arms around people and really move from the nurturing to the building of the relationships. and engage even in real time. You can live stream from your community at any time. And if someone's just like doom scrolling on their phone or checking their emails on their phone, they'll get a pop-up notification that says, Bria went live and they can click and just talk to you live. That doesn't really happen in the same way with email. So there's pros and cons to it all, I guess. How do we even fight about it? Because it's like so many things to win about all of them.   Lisa: As the episode goes on, we're like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah.   Brea: That's right.   Lisa: I heard you to get back to one more debate point. This was probably a couple of months ago. You and I were talking and you were like, oh, the concept of email marketing hurts my individualization. And meanwhile, I was like, oh, my individualization and my top five loves email marketing. Can we have a little bit of that conversation? Tell us where, obviously, it's going to shine in a community for you, but let's just talk about the personal touch, the individualizing to the person you're interacting with, and how that plays into your vote and your view on email marketing and community.   Brea: I almost hate to talk about this on a podcast because I know that I'm especially sensitive to email marketing because I have spent so much time, I mean years with it, that I really just feel kind of burnt out by it. This is just me, this is my opinion, my experience, so take it with a grain of salt. But I think the automated fields that allow you to customize, like adding a variable, like a first name, or even their CliftonStrengths, or the company that they work at, or the place that you met them, or whatever variables you might put into an email template to make it feel more custom, it just doesn't get me anymore. I get that that's what's happening, so the magic is gone. As a consumer, there's nothing magical or personal about receiving a mass email. Because I don't love it as a customer, I just don't love it as a business owner. And I think that is my whole approach to this conversation is as a customer, I don't love it. I literally have email inboxes that I don't check ever. So I just, I assume that other people are that way too. I just don't like spending time in emails. I would much prefer to talk to people in my community versus just sending out a blast email to everyone.   Lisa: Right. Yeah. It's fun hearing how the ones that we're voting for, like me voting for email and you voting for community, of course, they're reflecting our strengths and our personalities. I agree with Bria. I do not use those personalization features. Number one, we all know it. It feels like a trick where it's like, hey, Lisa. And you're like, you didn't send that to me with my name. But also what's worse, if I have a list of 30,000 people, it's not clean enough. And so if you put Bria Roper in the first name field, and I say, Hi, Bria Roper, comma, and that's joltingly annoying, because now I'm trying to make a personal connection that is so falling on my head.   Brea: That's right.   Lisa: It's a horrible feeling. So whether your fields get mixed up or if there's missing data, we've all received those emails where it says, hi, first name, and you're like, oh, it just grates on me.   Brea: I would rather not send an email than send an email that, you know, comes up that way.   Lisa: Yeah, me too.   Brea: I think, oh, I just have so many thoughts. It's interesting to me that when I take the time to actually send one-off emails, like this is not an email campaign, you know, I'm emailing you manually. You know, just you. This is me typing. A lot of times people think that it's a mass email because they have received marketing campaigns. And unfortunately, like I've had that feedback and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's just me talking, you know? And so instead of trying to fight it, it's just easier for me to be in a community. They know that it's me talking to them there. They don't have to question. When I reply to this, is it going to go to her? Is it going to go, you know, where is it going to go? Like, I don't know. I just. Right. Yeah.   Lisa: And I will say to get that nurture effect, because this is all in the context of nurturing relationships, right? For email marketing, I've said really specifically, it's like, hey, this is Lisa, and I'm behind this. And if you hit reply, it's going to be Lisa. And so I've mentioned that. Yeah, because then they really do reply. And some people really spill their guts in stories. about things that are so incredible and life-changing for them. It's amazing. So when people say email marketing, oh, it's so cold. It's so generic. I'm like, I have incredible conversations with people where they share their stuff. So it has to be in the design of what you send and whether they believe there's really a human behind there they could hit reply and talk to.   Brea: Yep, that's right. And as you build, they're receiving emails from you over time. They're going to realize like, oh, this really is Lisa. I think that's really important. The relationship that you have with them can be nurtured if there's that trust there. I feel like it's hard with email alone, right? Just email by itself to build trust solely through email.   Lisa: Well, okay, this is a really good reason to support email marketing or communities for the kind of work that we do. Because if our relationship is kicked off with a coaching call or our relationship is kicked off with a workshop, they already have a personal relationship with us. And now if they come to our list, they know us as a human and it has a different effect than if somebody just started randomly getting emails from a hundred percent.   Brea: And this, This is where I can get on board with email. But for me, it's different. It's not email marketing. It really is a true nurturing of a relationship that already exists, you know. Then bring on the automation. Make it easy. Make sure that that you're continuing to stay in contact with them. But when it comes to email marketing as generating leads, just being on your website, asking people to sign up for your email list, nobody wants to sign up for another email list. So maybe that's a big difference in my mind and in my heart even is what kind of email nurturing are we talking about? Where on the journey?   Lisa: Yeah, and we're supposed to be debating here. But really, we're so agreeing. And I think the word marketing has it flagged. And I call it email marketing, because it's really what all the software providers call it, and the industry calls it right. But the truth is what I've, what I've executed over the years is nurturing relationship building and education. And maybe I've earned the right being in their inbox occasionally to announce an offer, but It's not, I'm in your box trying to sell to you constantly because that wouldn't work.   Brea: Yeah, that's right. I mean, the numbers I'm sure have changed over the years, but it used to be recommended one in every seven emails would be a call to action for money. And the other six in the sequence were true nurture, you know, of some kind. So it's probably one in 10 now, you know, where you need more nurture now than you did back then. Yeah. So I have a question for you because we are very different people in a lot of ways, and we do have some similar strengths, okay? So I'm curious. For me, emails, it's not enough interaction. That's something that with my influencing themes especially, I need that feedback from people. I need to know that I am talking to someone, that it is showing up in their inbox. And I understand we can look at analytics to see are people clicking, are people not clicking, whatever. My question is always, why not? Why didn't they click through? Was it the subject line? Was it the whatever? There are a million reasons why it might have bounced or it might have gone unread. And so I want that communication. I want that feedback. And email doesn't give that to me in the way that a community does. Is that because my connectedness is so high and yours is is lower? Is that because like, I don't know, why? Why is that that it's easier for you to just put it out there? And if people reply like that's great, but you don't need that in the same way.   Lisa: Yeah, probably. I would say part of it is going to be a cutting off of how much time I spend just goofing and talking with people because that would be super fun for me. Like if I take a physical example of this early in my career, it was really difficult when people wanted a jibber jabber in the office when you're in the same space. I felt like, wow, I'm a highly distractible person. I'm going to be kind to the person who comes in to interrupt me, but my inside voice is going to be like, oh my gosh, quit interrupting me. I have four more hours of work to do. Now I'm going to stay here until 10 PM.   Brea: I don't have that inside voice. I need that inside voice.   Lisa: So I think that same inside voice happens where Like I banned myself from Instagram for years because it's so fun to do all those interactions that I can just lose myself in that stuff and not get back to revenue generating opportunities and the operations of the business and the core functions of the business. Although community does serve part of a core function, obviously, like the relationship building part, the nurture. But I think for me, it is a little bit more of that cutting off. Like if someone's replying, with me and we're having interactions on email marketing, one, I can get what I need to get done for the day and I can put that in my email block that I have allocated for myself. Like I have this many hours in a day to reply to email, whether that's one or three or whatever it's taking at that phase of my life. And if I finish up, then I can have fun and do like longer and more engaged interactions with people. Whereas, um, If I just allowed myself to kind of be around in a community and it's pinging me all the time, I would be so distracted that I wouldn't be a business person. I would just be like, oh, let's talk in the community. So I think that is part of a managing myself preference.   Brea: Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, because one of the things that I love about the community is that it can be real time. Like I said, I can live stream from the community, or I can just chat with the community. And if people have the notification set up on their phone, they can get the push notification and just chat right back. And that's really cool. But also or and They have each other, you know, it's kind of the difference between a group coaching and a one-on-one coaching like I don't have to be responding to all the questions because they're responding to each other and My activator loves that right? when I see that especially when I see them giving good answers to each other. I'm like, oh my gosh, you've learned, you know, like, good job, you've got it, you know, and you're sharing it with someone else. Like, that's so satisfying for me to be able to just observe, you know, and then to just like, or, you know, positivity comes in and I'm like, yeah, good job, you know.   Lisa: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that is incredible. And you could have clients from six different companies and the four people from each of those engagements who are the most excited about strengths. Now they're connecting with each other and sharing ideas with each other and you've curated that. So I could see that being really fulfilling.   Brea: Yeah. It's so fun. Yeah. What about, so when I think of email, I also think of tech headaches and I know you love tech and I do too. When it works, it can be amazing. There are probably listeners that are like you. There are definitely listeners that are like me and for sure there are listeners who are like, I don't even know where to begin. So any thoughts about that?   Lisa: I think, I mean, one, come over to Tools for Coaches, get sequences that I've already made. Make it easy on yourself. I've already built the automations. And if you use Kit, you can import it as a whole automation. So it already has all the email sequences strung together and can just, with a click of a button, get people into that couple-year sequence. So that's one. If you really want a shortcut, come over leadthroughstrengths.com, join at Tools for Coaches. in the main menu.   Brea: I just want to clarify for people, what you're saying is you've built the sequences. Not only are they written, but they're like plug and play, pre-programmed, ready to go. So if you, listeners, if you invest in the platform kit, then all of Lisa's content is literally just push a button and it's ready to go.   Lisa: Yeah, and they'll want to customize emails probably.   Brea: The easy part, right? Like they don't have to worry about finding the right platform and integrating and you know, do I have to zap with Zapier? Do I, you know, like it's just right here. It's already done for you. Yeah. Right.   Lisa: And we'll put the link to, I have an affiliate link for kick. It's the thing. It's like the only software that I am an affiliate for cause I, Love it. It makes all of that intimidation that you're talking about. It makes it just Dissolve it allows you to tag people with certain things. So let's just take an example of CliftonStrengths You could tag them as a corporate client so that an individual one-on-one coaching client might get different content from your corporate group training people. Or maybe you tag them with their CliftonStrengths. And if they click on something that if you say like, you could write an email that has all 34 CliftonStrengths, and you could say, click on the five that are yours, you'll get tagged for it. And I'm going to send out a just info that relates to your top five. That's all a possibility and that's all stuff that you can tell it to do based on the person's behavior. If they click X, then do Y. It's so cool what you can do with it. Mine, I don't use like a newsletter where that week everyone's getting the same message. I use mine like If you're on day one of the sequence, you're on day one of the sequence. And the person next to you can be on day 30 of the sequence. And then any of the real time stuff that I need to announce, like hey, there's a webinar next week, that would be in the PS, because I can put that in the footer of the message, so that I get the benefits of a newsletter and the benefits of the automations where they're running through and pulling people through a process. And that might sound complicated, but the system, it's literally dragging visually into They call them visual automations, and you literally do these visual things. If someone gets X-tagged, then kick off this sequence, and then boom, it just does the thing for you.   Brea: Yeah, and I love Mighty Networks. Same thing, you know, they use tags. We've got automations, and so you can really personalize it. Yeah, it's interesting to hear you talk about your love for email because I get all of that. And I think what it comes down to for me is the online community. It feels more two-way to me, even though email can be that. The way that I use email and maybe the way that a lot of people use email is more of just like, I'm receiving it, it's content that I'm receiving. And I feel like with my community, at least the way that I try to run it is, it's not that, it's conversation, it's exchange. And so I'm not using the tags and the automations and the data to customize content that I'm pushing out. I'm using it to figure out how to make connections with people, who needs to meet who, you know, and everyone in the community has that data. So it's not just me. Everyone can see, you know, you can go and click on, you know, whatever strength and automatically you see whoever else has that in their top five. Like that's, cool, you know, and it's available to everyone instead of just like the man behind the curtain. So I love that, the connection that it brings, how everyone can engage together and it's more of a conversation. So here's my communication coming out.   Lisa: Communication connectedness, so surprised.   Brea: Yeah. And less of a, like, this is just a way to give information. It's really a conversation. Community, you know, really, like, that's what it is.   Lisa: Yeah. And if you take my strengths with email marketing and say, OK, here's an offer of some education or a tidbit. And then if it happens to strike you and it strikes a chord with you and you're interested, then hit reply and we'll have a conversation. And then that honors my focus and being able to stay in my focus mode, but then build a relationship with the person who is like, oh yeah, that was really cool for me, so now I'm going to engage. And then when they initiate that engagement, now we have a DM going basically.   Brea: Yeah. I think I'm realizing more that, I actually was just talking about this with, we had our podcast meetup today, so if you're listening and you haven't come to one of those, zoom on over to briaroper.com and sign up for the invites to our Zoom meetups. But we were talking about how I love equipping and empowering and encouraging coaches or business owners or the client so much that email to me feels like a distraction from that. Yeah, and community is my distraction. Oh, it's so interesting. So interesting.   Lisa: So lesson, we might have our showdown, but for you, when you're deciding as the listener, which one do I choose? Choose the one that aligns with your strengths.   Brea: And you can't say both.   Lisa: Just kidding. Okay. We're going to have to have a vote out on the community. You have to pick one or the other. Yeah.   Brea: Oh, there's so many things on my list of things that I love about the community. It's honestly, it doesn't even feel fair to like pit them against each other because they're not even the same thing. It's really not even apples and oranges. It's like fruit and vegetables. You know, I mean, they're just like different.   Lisa: Yeah. Um, different things, but we've come together in a, in a hug at the end.   Brea: How do rap battles end with a, a winner and a mic drop and ooooooooh!   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.  

In this episode, we dive into a hot topic that many speakers, trainers, and coaches grapple with: Should you put prices on your website? Of course, there are many pros and cons of displaying prices, so we unpack various strategies that can help you make the best decision for your business. Whether you're leaning towards transparency or prefer to keep things under wraps, the key is to make a decision that aligns with your business model and audience expectations. So grab your favorite beverage, tune in, and let's figure out together if listing prices is the right move for you! 💬 I'd love to hear your thoughts! Do you list your prices on your website? Why or why not? Join the conversation in the comments below! 🌟 Work With Us! BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.   Takeaways on Whether You Should Put Prices on Your Website ●      Quality Over Quantity: One of the most compelling arguments for listing prices is that it can significantly improve the quality of your leads. By providing clear pricing information, you allow potential clients to self-select based on their budget and needs. This means fewer inquiries from individuals who may not be able to afford your services, ultimately saving you time and energy. ●      Understanding Your Audience: The decision to list prices isn't just about your preferences; it's also about understanding your audience. Different demographics have varying expectations. Tailoring your pricing strategy to fit the needs and preferences of your target audience can enhance trust and engagement. ●      Flexibility is Key: There's no one-size-fits-all answer when it comes to pricing. Offering different prices for corporate clients versus individuals or nonprofits can help you attract a wider range of clients. Also, depending on the nature of your offerings, you might choose to list prices for some services while keeping others more flexible. For example, if you offer a straightforward product, like a $10 guide, it makes sense to list that price. However, for more complex services that require a conversation, you might opt for a range or an "inquire for pricing" approach. This flexibility allows you to cater to different client needs while still providing essential information. ●      Use Forms and Automation: Instead of relying solely on discovery calls, consider using forms or chatbots to gather information from potential clients. This can help you provide tailored pricing information without the need for a direct conversation. ●      Transparency Builds Trust: Being upfront about your prices can foster trust with potential clients. If you provide context and value alongside your pricing, it can enhance their willingness to engage with you.   Take Action If You Decide To List Prices on Your Coaching Website ●      Evaluate Your Offerings: Determine if your services are clear and transactional enough to warrant listing prices on your website. If you have standard packages, consider displaying their prices. ●      Utilize Forms and Automation: Implement application forms or chatbots on your website to gather information from potential clients before scheduling a call. This can help qualify leads and provide them with a price range based on their responses. ●      Create Informative Content: Create videos or educational content that explains your services and pricing structure, especially if you decide to list prices. This can help build trust and prime potential clients for the sale. 🎧   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   AI-Generated Transcript on Podcast Episode About Listing Prices On Your Website Lisa: I'm Lisa.   Brea: I'm Brea.   Lisa: Today's conversation is about, should you list prices on your website as a speaker, trainer, or coach, Bria? What say you?   Brea: This is a question that people ask all the time, isn't it? And honestly, I see pros and cons for both. Normally, I'm pretty opinionated, but this is one where I feel like it could go either way. What about you?   Lisa: I say yes, which is a controversial take, but I can be convinced otherwise possibly, but certainly I understand why there are opinions on both sides and there are definitely strategies on both sides. So you want to break them down?   Brea: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I'm surprised that you think that it's controversial to post prices. Is that what I heard you say?   Lisa: Yes. Oh, especially in the professional speaker world. Really? It feels like religion that you do not post your prices, that you get people on a call because you reveal it on the call. Interesting. Yeah.   Brea: Yeah. Okay. I mean, I don't have prices on my website, but I have had prices on my website before and I will have prices on my website in the future. Like it's not a, it's just kind of, you know, my website right now is not great. Let's be honest. Um, the cobbler whose kids don't have shoes, you know, it's like the market, whose website hasn't been updated in years. Um, Let's talk about why.   Lisa: There are legitimate reasons why people do not list prices on their website. I do have prices listed on mine and I do like that idea, but let's go from the other side first. Why do people decide or opt to not list them for services?   Brea: Scarcity mindset comes to mind immediately. I think people are afraid that they'll lose the deal or they'll lose the opportunity, right, if they don't have the opportunity to sell or they can't, you know, communicate value or whatever. I think that might be one.   Lisa: Absolutely. I'll say that absolutely happened. I would get a lot of leads where people would be like, Oh, tell me about your workshops. Tell me about your speech. And then when I did, they would be like, Oh, I had $300 to budget. Oh, I had $700.   They were never going to be able to afford that service they were asking me about in the first place. So it created a lot of work. Yeah, a lot. So, and not like those people were great. They just didn't work at a company. Our market wasn't aligned. The day I started listing prices, now this was probably eight years ago, but when I started listing prices, I got way fewer lead forms. So many less than I received before. my lead quality went up a ton.   Yeah, you might get fewer leads. But we've all done this before. You can shop online for a blazer. And if I see a blazer and it says that the blazer jacket, I'm not talking about a Chevy, but the jacket says it costs $5,500, I might be like, I don't wear those very often. I'm not in that market. It doesn't mean that's not worth that to somebody. It's just not my market. We're not a great fit for each other. And you just kind of scroll on by and move on so that you're not spending hours considering each other.   Brea: Yeah, so that sounds like a pro for why you would list your prices on your website is to help your website visitor to decide, is this in my budget? Is this aligned with what I'm looking for before you have that conversation and invest that time?   Lisa: Well, it could be a con in that person who wasn't a good fit for that. They might be a good fit for something else. So if your website isn't clear enough to give them a different path, like, Hey, if this is too high for your budget, here are other options. You could lose that person entirely where maybe you could be of service to them.   So that would be a con. If you don't have the conversation laid out in a way that's consumable for them. Cause you could just say, boom, that leads gone forever. And maybe you could have had a relationship just in a different capacity.   Brea: Yeah, I think if you're someone who has very clear offerings, you've got two or three signature offers, those are the things that you just do over and over and over again, then it's easy. Put those on your website, put the prices, and let people say yes or no.   If you're someone who is like me and I like to customize things, I like to create things from scratch, really yummy experience. I want to talk to you. I want to figure out what are your challenges, what are your goals, and I have to have that conversation. And I love the conversation, so most of the time I'm willing to invest that time because if we're not a good fit, I probably know someone who is, and I would love to refer you to them…or maybe connect you with a different type of resource.   That is fun for me too. So if I have the time, I'd love to have that conversation just to hear more about what you're looking for and go from there. So do you have something that's out of the box that people can just pull off the shelf, look at the price tag and say, yes, no. Then if you do, then do that. And if you don't have that, then get on a call.   Lisa: Right. Right. I do think that is a valid conversation. If you have very different kinds of buyers, some more experienced than others, you could send them to an education piece. But yeah, there's some of that. And then also there are upsells that sometimes they do on the calls like Hey, if you want to buy a book for every participant, it could look like this or where the budget categories are.   Like if they're spending money on books versus speaker, they may need to move around what it looks like on the invoice and how it gets priced. So some of those things do warrant a live call together. So I do understand from that perspective why they may not want to list.   Brea: Yeah, and a lot of those reasons are also reasons why prices are not on my website right now. So I fully support all of that. And you could get a lot of that information or have that conversation in air quotes. Can you hear my air quotes? The conversation. via an application, a form of some kind. You can ask those types of questions without actually spending your time on a call. So I think that's a step that a lot of coaches may not consider, you know, because like you said, we hear it all the time.   You have to get on a call, you know, do a free discovery call or whatever, you know. But you can use an application or a form to gather a lot of information before you decide whether or not you want to invest your time in a call. And those forms can even be automated. I mean, Lisa, you're the automation queen.   You know, depending on how they answer it, you could set it up to where they receive an automated proposal or a sales sheet or something that says, hey, based on your answers, this is what we recommend and this is how much it costs and are you interested? There's so many ways that you could go beyond the typical list your prices or have a discovery call. It's not black or white. There are more options.   Lisa: Yes. I used to have that set up. I had it quite sophisticated because I would ask them things like, for if it's a, is this a CliftonStrengths event? If yes, if they answered yes, then another question comes in. Top five, full 34, or you already have your own. And based on their answer, and one of the ones is like, tell me the difference between top five and full 34. I don't know which one I'm open to hearing.   If they clicked that, I would send them some education on what those are. So that's just an example. But now, JotForm and others. Now there are so many chatbots that you can program with answers. I think people are becoming more open to typing things like that instead of a contact form. And you can program it to know quite a lot.   So you could go in an in-between instead of just a, do you list or do you not list prices on your website? You could say, well, should you list your prices on your website? Maybe you decide no, but then you put a chatbot and Have it return a range, depending, and as they answer questions about, it depends, full 34, top five, et cetera, is coaching included? Then it could give them back even things like a price range. Hey, a typical client pays X for what you've described, and then go from there.   Brea: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I also have done this. I've heard of other coaches kind of living in that middle ground that you're describing and actually putting those prices on your website. So maybe it's not a sticker price for a specific item, but you can say something like, this package starts at X number of dollars.   It at least gives people an idea of, okay, I'm looking at $, $$, $$$, or $$$$. like where Where are we, you know, in the expense range? Because if a package starts at five grand and they were looking for 500, we're way off, right? Like, I'm not going to buy a blazer for $5,000 if I'm looking for something that's $500.   Lisa: Yes, but also let's get to what I think is another reality that is just more nuanced. No one's going to like nuance, right? Because you just want the quick internet answer. Um, people, if they've been able to get to know you over time in whatever way, they've already seen you speak, they've met you at an event before, they've watched your YouTube channel, whatever thing that makes them feel really comfortable with you.   That is really different from just going to someone's website cold because the relationship with you and the trust or lack of trust that hasn't been built yet, those can, I think, really affect whether prices would make sense or not. Both, whether you should list them or whether someone would be open to a bigger price. after a conversation.   There's all kinds of stuff they could be anchored in when they show up and they're looking for a price. They used to call them tire kickers in sales. They're just running around looking for 20 prices just to get an idea of what a thing should cost. There are definitely people who might be doing that, but it's probably more nuanced now. They're probably following somebody around on social for a while or some other channels. And then when it's time, they're like, oh, I know who to go to.   Brea: Yep. And you know, as a consumer, I've kicked a lot of tires, okay? I love finding a good deal and making sure that I'm shopping around to get the best price, to get the best value, to get the best deal. As a business owner, I most of the time don't want to work with people who are just looking for the lowest price, right?   Like, I don't want to just show up and do a one-off workshop for a team that's not really excited to be learning about CliftonStrengths, you know, or to be discovering their own strengths or the strengths of their colleagues. I don't enjoy that. And so, part of the strategy of not including my prices on my website is to let the people who are just looking for the lowest price for a one-off workshop that they just have to do because their manager said, hey, go out there and find somebody to do this for us. That's not my ideal customer. So I'm just letting them self-select away, you know? Yeah.   Lisa: Yeah, that's a good one. I think it would definitely be a vote for listing prices on your website. If you have some products or services that are a little more transactional and clear, and the packages are really clear, like even if you're a career coach and you always sell a five session package, this is what it looks like. You might have a video descriptor breaking it down for people, but you could totally put those prices out there if it's just very clear and packaged up.   Brea: Yep. And you know, the way that I when I have had prices on my website, Lisa, it's been for for those reasons. It's been here's my full 34 debrief. It includes the code and it includes this and it includes that. And like, that's a very easy. out of the box, put a price tag on that, you know, people can pick it off of the shelf. That makes sense to me. Like if I'm doing a public workshop where one person can buy a seat, then a hundred percent be like, Hey, one seat costs this much and click here to buy, you know? Yeah.   Lisa: Yeah. That would be silly to not list prices in that case. Right. Yeah. And I think the higher ticket and the bigger, and more complex the engagement could be, the more it would lean you toward not listing prices because there could be all kinds of things. And without the conversation, it would be difficult to scope that out.   Brea: Yeah, definitely.   Lisa: Yeah. I mean, we have reasons to do it and reasons not to do it. And actually, I think our decisions have reflected our business model. My favorite kind of customer over the years was the retreat or the team summit kickoff, one giant meeting that they have once a year. And it is more of a one-off. So they only need to know factors.   It would be like, here's how much it costs for the facilitation fee. Here's how much it costs for travel. Here's how much the assessments cost. And that is something that I can make formulaic that they could figure out on their own from coming to the website. And it is more transactional. And what you're describing is more relational, long term, and a little more complex and does warrant a call.   Brea: Yeah. I think there's an element of trust as well. I think if someone doesn't know you and they just come to your website, that's the first time that they are seeing you. You're going to put a price tag out there. Make sure you have a video of you. Give them a reason to fall in love with you. You know, show them some of your work. Show them your personality.   Make sure that your website is communicating things that help them understand why that price tag is what it is. If you're not going to do that in a call, you can do that on your website, but you don't want to just put a price tag out there and let it hang by itself. You want to make sure your website is communicating the things that you would communicate on a call, just in a different way.   Lisa: Yeah, I think that's a good litmus test. If you find yourself on calls saying the same thing over and over and over and over, then make a video saying the thing so that when they come to your call, they're way more prepared. And you've said, be sure to watch this video before coming to the call. And there, there's a process there. So I think that is a good one that can save a lot of time and make the actual conversation much, much richer.   Then you have the price tag kind of conversation as well. So for example, I have a handful of $10 activity guides. I'm not going to make a video for $10. It's $10. It's a thoughtless $10, right? But then I also have sold $300,000 proposals, and those warrant a conversation, obviously, and a relationship. So those are going to have more.   That makes total sense. And if somebody's asking me about a $10 guide, I mean, look, you've got to be able to just spend $10, that's not going to be a high touch item. On the higher ones, then if somebody wants a range, and because some people do, they come in and they say, just give me some idea before we spend a lot of time together. Because that is if it's a cold prospect, and it's inbound, sometimes that is people's perspective.   Brea: Yep. And I think that $10 whatever you're selling on your website, that's a great example of a way to build trust, right? Before they're ready to get on a call, they're investing that time with you. Maybe they aren't ready. It feels too far down the road. You don't get married on the first date, you know? Like that's a way for them to get to know you too.   It doesn't have to be a video. It doesn't have to be free. It could be something that's paid and we have other episodes that talk about that too. Also keeping in mind who your ideal client is, you know, the Gen Z's, Millennials, we want prices. We want clear expectations. We want lots of information. Especially Gen Zs, like it's uncomfortable for them to pick up a phone and call someone and have a conversation.   You know, like they didn't grow up with that the same way that we did. And so starting with a Zoom call or a call feels very, very far from where they are and the way that they shop. So remembering, you know, who is it that you're reaching out to and creating a process that fits them is just as important as making sure that you're comfortable with your process as well.   Lisa: I think that's hugely important. And I'll end with a slice of audience. So you're talking who your audience is in terms of generation. If I talk about who the audience is in terms of role, If I say, for example, you're a meeting planner and you come to my site and I listed prices on my website. Let's say you listed a speech of $4,000.   Meeting planners who see $10,000 and $50,000 speakers all the time, they might actually get concerned that that's too low. And meanwhile, we have speakers, trainers, coaches who are like, I don't want to put it out there. It's going to be too high. It'll scare people away. It can also scare people away if it's too low. So know who your audience is and what kind of buyer they are and what kind of prices they've been exposed to.   Of course, you get to know it more over time. And you learn who your audience is more over time as well. And if you just don't know, like, I don't know, it could be corporate, it could be a meeting planner, maybe a bureau is looking for some other people to take on and they walk by your website and you have your price listed at $4,000 and they say, eh, too low.   They scoot right on by. So I just think I'll end with that part because people are usually concerned about listing prices because they don't want to scare people away being too high, but the opposite can also be true and is often true. So that would be a vote to be cautious of listing prices and potentially doing a range. if you don't know your audiences.   Brea: Yeah, I love that. Maybe you charge different prices depending on the audience. Maybe you have a nonprofit price and a corporate price or if someone's paying out of pocket for themselves as an individual versus they're paying with a corporate expense account.   There are lots of reasons why you might want to have some flexibility in your prices so you don't want to list them because you want to have a call to figure out kind of where they're coming from and how to best price to them.   Lisa: Okay, I have one more. I said it was my last thought. But I have one final thought. Oh, no. I have one more final thought, which is this is for back to my original vote of putting prices on your website. And this is a primary reason I list prices on my website. People do not have an attention span. And they don't want to work hard for the relationship.   I think that willingness to work hard early on is lower before you've built a relationship with each other. So if you won't tell them any information about you, they might just move on and look for somebody who will give them more information upfront and not try to hide it or put them into a sales funnel because they feel it as a technique. So I'm just going to throw that out there as a final reason you might consider actually listing your prices or at minimum a range.   Brea: Yeah, that transparency builds trust quickly, right? The fact that you can be upfront about what your prices are and what you offer feels authentic and good to people. Did we actually come to any kind of conclusion or did we just say, here's a bunch of thoughts?   Lisa: I think it's here's a bunch of thoughts but we did give them a lot of thoughts to consider and I think they'll find themselves somewhere on the continuum and at least we're giving them some of the decision criteria so that they can feel good about the choice they make.   Brea: Yeah, I would love to hear from the listeners in the next Lead Through Strengths podcast meetup. Come on, join me and other listeners to discuss, do you list your prices on your website? If so, why? If not, why not? I'd love to talk about that. So head to briaroper.com and you can get the invite for our next meetup.   Lisa: That sounds great. And for tools for coaches, that's my membership where I give people access to all of my tools behind the scenes, anything they've ever seen on my website, structures, et cetera. So if you want to take any of the, um, wording and, uh, maybe the forms that lead people through the pricing decisions, the logistics and the conversations that happen that lead people through pricing, et cetera.   If you are a member and you're listening, then holler at me and I'll make sure you have access to those as templates. So you're not starting from scratch. Awesome. All right. Well, I guess our call to action is, should you list your prices? Maybe, maybe not, but make sure you've had that consideration and you're deciding to do it or not do it based on some of the factors that we threw out in this episode.   Brea: I love it. Use your agency, you know, make a good decision. And also remember, you can always change your mind. Just try it, see what happens and then adjust accordingly.   Lisa: It's words on a website. All you do is go into a text editor and change it. It's such an easy thing that we overlook. We make a big deal about it, but you can just turn it on, turn it off.   Brea: And the answer can be both. I think that's also what we're saying is for some things, list your price. Absolutely. No question. If it's $10, put the price on there, let people buy it. Like you don't need to have a conversation.   And on the same website, you can have other offerings where it says, inquire for more information, or call for a custom quote, or packages start at this, or typically people invest this dollar amount to this dollar amount. I mean, it doesn't have to be a yes or no for your entire website. You can decide per offering or per page or whatever you want to do. You've got the power. It's getting kind of hectic.   Lisa: Is that the same song?   Brea: I have no idea.   Lisa: I think that's a little thing in the background. It's getting kind of hectic, but I don't know. We'll have to look it up and see. Is it one song or two songs?     Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.  

If there's one question I get from almost every coach I coach, it's this: how do I know what to charge? That's why we've dedicated this episode to a topic that resonates with so many of us in the coaching, training, and speaking industries: Pricing Your Services. In this episode, we explore various pricing strategies and how they can impact your business. Of course, we also discuss the importance of aligning your pricing with your personal values and strengths. We also talk about the value of adding more to your offers instead of slashing prices, and how to scope down services to meet client budgets. Plus, we sprinkle in some fun anecdotes and practical tips to help you navigate your pricing journey. So, whether you're just starting out or looking to adjust your rates, this episode is packed with valuable nuggets to help you price with confidence! 🌟 Work With Us! BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.   Takeaways on How to Price Your Services as A Coach or Trainer ●      Understand Your Pricing Strategy: There are things to consider basing your pricing strategy on, including cost, the market, client value, and more. Each has its pros and cons, so it's essential to find the one that aligns with your business goals and personal values. ●      Add Value Instead of Discounting: Instead of offering discounts, consider adding more value to your services. This could be in the form of additional sessions, resources, or exclusive content that enhances the client's experience and justifies your pricing. ●      Experiment and Adapt: Pricing isn't set in stone. It's okay to experiment with your rates and adjust them based on market feedback and your evolving business needs. Remember, you can always change the numbers on your website or pricing documents as you learn what works best. ●      Align Pricing with Your Strengths: Your unique talents and strengths should inform your pricing strategy. Whether you prioritize accessibility, customization, or maximizing impact, ensure your pricing reflects what you can sustainably deliver while keeping you fulfilled. ●      Offer Multiple Options: Presenting clients with different pricing tiers or packages can help them see the value in your services and choose what fits their budget. This approach not only anticipates budget constraints but also opens the door for future collaborations.   Take Action On Your Pricing Strategy ●      Market-Based Pricing: Conduct Market ResearchSpend time researching what competitors in your niche/industry are charging for similar services. Create a list of at least three competitors and note their pricing strategies to help you position your own services effectively. ●      Values-Based Pricing: Define Your Value PropositionWrite down the unique value you bring to your clients. Consider how your services can lead to specific results for them. Use this information to inform your values-based pricing strategy. ●      Create a Pricing Experiment: Set a timeline (ex. 3 months) to test a new pricing strategy. Track client responses and sales. Be prepared to adjust your prices based on the feedback and results you gather. ●      Develop Value-Added Offers: Identify at least two ways to add value to your services without discounting. For example, consider offering a free follow-up session for clients who book a package, or providing additional resources like e-books or webinars when the client pays for the package in full up front. ●      Draft Three Different Pricing Packages: Create three different versions of your Signature Service (essentially the same service, but scoped up or down to hit different price points). For instance, if your Signature Offer is a Half-Day Workshop, maybe your lowest price point could include a basic virtual package, your "mid" price point includes the standard in-person package, and your top-tier price includes the in-person workshop, plus a few extras. Present these options to potential clients to give them choices that fit their budget and needs.  Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   AI-Generated Transcript Lisa: I'm Lisa.   Brea: I'm Brea.   Lisa: And today's topic, I'm going to introduce by asking you a question, Brea.   Brea: Okay, hang on. Oh, I'm stretching. Okay.   Lisa: Okay, I'm ready. Ready. Ready. Get ready. You're at the supermarket. Okay. You're in the meat section and you find some chicken and it has a big red tag on it and it says 70% off. Hell no. Okay, so today's topic is pricing. Pricing your services. Okay, what's the difference? Sorry. Run the other way. And I am bringing this up because some people's pricing strategy when they get into a coaching, training, speaking business is just, I don't know what else to do, so I'm going to come in low so that it's comfortable for everyone. But sometimes they come in and they feel like the 70% off chicken package. But they don't realize that's how they're coming off to clients, so I'm just bringing this up to frame the idea of pricing your services. There are a lot of ways to go about pricing your services. It is a number one question that comes up, especially at the beginning of a coaching, training, speaking business, but also along the way. Should I raise my prices? Where's the right price? getting enough business because I'm at the wrong place in my price for my market. So we're going to explore all kinds of things around pricing, some related to mindset, some related to strengths, and some just basic pricing strategy kind of thoughts to get you grounded in different ways you could go about pricing.   Brea: This is gold. Chef's kiss, like, I don't know if I've ever talked to another coach or another business owner who hasn't had this question. How do I price my services? What do I charge, right? I mean, everyone is asking this question. I see it in the Facebook groups, online, all the time. I mean, yes. Okay, let's go.   Lisa: So I remember when I was working on my MBA, we were talking about all kinds of businesses, not just service businesses and not just small businesses. What are some pricing strategies? And the ones I remember having really good discussions around, let me just kind of rattle off the things I can remember. One is, you could position yourself as a low-cost leader. Think about this, this is the coach who probably is like, I want my prices to be accessible for all, I want to never lose a deal because I'm charging too much, those kind of things.   Brea: Yep.   Lisa: We have market based price. This is the one that I've chosen. And that is you find the market based on what customers expect and are used to what your competitors charge. There's a finding of the market that can be a challenge, but I would say that market based pricing, just trying to kind of fit in somewhere in the middle of the market. Yep. There's premium pricing. hey, I'm going to be viewed as luxury, top tier, only the best can afford this, and only the best service is going to get delivered. There's a cost plus kind of version, and yeah. No. Like, OK, let's think about all the input costs it takes to run a business. If you had a physical product, this would be a lot more obvious because people would be like, oh, I see. If I'm going to build a house and I find a cost plus builder, they're going to take all the materials, all the labor, and then they're going to put their builder fee on top, right? That's really simple when it's a product, even though that's a service. But there are tangible parts to that product. So for coaches and trainers and speakers, that's really interesting because you're like, what are my input costs? Well, it's my labor when I'm solo, but what if I know I want to grow my business into the future with a robust team behind me? Now I have to project what are my costs. I have software costs. I have office costs. I have hardware costs. And then we typically have a higher margin business, so the plus part of cost plus is usually higher for a service business. But another element I would like to layer on to this cost plus is, are you pricing thinking for the future? Because if you price yourself today as an absolute solo practitioner, like freelance style, and then three years from now or two years from now, you decide you're going to bring on three team members and you're going to go move into an office, your costs are going to skyrocket and your margins are going to tank if you don't raise your prices. So can you think of your pricing from the future building out how you project your team to be? Because those are the kind of clients you're going to need to attract who can afford the service you offer as a bigger team.   Brea: Yep. Yeah, and I would add values based pricing. What value do you bring? Not what is the cost of goods or what is the cost of your time or whatever, but what what value does your customer see in that? This is something that I think a lot of people struggle to do if they see a big divide between, you know, like the value is a lot higher than what than what the service provider feels it actually costs them to deliver. So yeah, but I love Values Based Pricing.   Lisa: I was just talking to a sales speaker the other day. He's so good at all of this. And he was saying, he's like in the $50,000 range for a speech. And the customer was like, oh my gosh, for an hour of your time. And he's like, would you like it to take a lot longer for me to help you get the results? So there's always that. And then when you said values, I wasn't actually, my brain didn't go to results. It went to values like our personal values. And I think that's another layer that would be worth adding on because I think you could separate that out from low cost leader. Like some people are, have a loss leader product or service. I definitely do this with low ticket offers and have specific products or services offered that get people in the door. And some people have that low cost leader just as a, what they do. And that's a strategy. But other people from a personal values level will say, I want to be accessible because I want every person to have access to this thing. And it, it comes from their personal values and That is a whole pricing strategy as well.  If you're going to use that pricing strategy, it's fine, especially if those are your personal values. Great if your pricing strategy aligns with your personal values. And be sure you do the math. You're going to have to serve more customers if you offer the super low price and you're accessible to no one if you go out of business. So just do the math to make sure you can make that viable. I love it.   Brea: Yeah, I think all of these are really good for people to consider. And they're really, I don't know, I think maybe in some situations there might be a right answer, but most of the time the right answer is with the one that's right for you, right? So how many times can I say right in the same sentence? Okay.   Lisa: But the point hits home. Yes. Because it is true. There isn't a right pricing strategy. So I'm just going to double down on it and say it more. There isn't a right way. And I think that's what makes it hard. People say, I'm in this. I have no idea what the price is. How would I even find the market? Where do I find the right price? You're going to probably have to have an experiment and or a lot of research to try to find your spot. And it's fine if you don't land it on day one. I mean, if you're making a price list on your website or a PDF, all you have to do is go change some digits with your keyboard and you can change the price to update it. It's an experiment. Yeah.   Brea: Yeah, that's good. That's a good reminder. Other things to consider. Consider your talents. Consider your strengths. If you are a person who needs consistency, who needs to know that you've got some mailbox money coming in, OK, then price accordingly. If your talents need some kind of recurring revenue, whether that's a membership fee or some kind of recurring revenue is what I'm talking about, then do that. Follow your talents and price accordingly.   Lisa: Well, do tell us about your talents. How have you followed your talents and how have they shown up in your pricing strategy?   Brea: So I resonate with the, I want something that's accessible to everyone. It's something that I feel really passionate about. Personal and professional development should be available to all. It's not something that should be a luxury for some. And yeah, so there's some of those relational talent themes that really leads that for me. And at the same time, I want maximum impact, right? So I have a lot of influencing talent. So I'm not satisfied filling my calendar with like one-on-one coaching conversations because I'm not able to reach as many people and I'm not able to make as big of an impact. So for me, that means having different offers and pricing in a way that the majority of my revenue comes in from bigger ticket items. And I build in some pro bono work. I have a certain amount of sessions, you know, or maybe, maybe one offer is priced as a BOGO where I've done this successfully before. And it feels so good to me to go to a corporate client and say, Hey, When you purchase a workshop for your team, also you get to choose from this list of nonprofits in your area or charities in your area, and I'll go do a workshop for them at no cost or at low cost or whatever. So it's like a pay it forward type of thing. I've done applications where people who are in a job search or a life transition or just find themselves in a place where money is tight, but they really want the coaching and they want the tools, great. So they can fill out an application to put some skin into the game. And there's a certain number of those sessions, those hours that I've budgeted for that month, and that's available. So I think we can price in a way that that makes it possible to make me feel fulfilled, you know, and also still put food on the table, you know, and money in the bank.   Lisa: Mm-hmm. Oh, I'm totally feeling your includer and connectedness there, that ripple effect. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah, what about you? Okay, let's pick Strategic certainly shows up. It's my number one and it is always looking ahead, trying to make clean, clear decisions. And so it definitely guided my process of being in the squarely in the market pricing type of strategy. I would say on the pricing side, one that gets in my way is individualization. because I love customizing.   Brea: Yeah, we both are in the doghouse for this like all the time.   Lisa: Kind of forget at times to charge tailoring fees, which people totally expect if you're like, oh, it's a premium bespoke version. It's customized, it's tailored. they totally expect to pay for that. But sometimes I get just ahead of myself with the excitement about customizing. So if that happens, the way I make up for it and the way my strengths come in to say, all right, now, how do I redeem myself to myself? Because to the client, it's amazing to myself. Then I pull out Maximizer and I'm like, OK, if I'm creating this alternate version or the specialty down this one path or rabbit hole that they wanted to go down, I will now create a digital product in that area or a whole thing that now I can offer on the menu of services, so to speak, so that other people can get the benefit out of it and I can resell the work that I did for that one client to someone else and make something out of that tailoring time because I could lose myself. for eight hours tailoring and not charged for that. So I think that those would be a tours of how my strengths show up in pricing, maximizer, individualization, and strategic showing up the most.   Brea: I hear that. I still hear that. And something that you're really great at is scaling. I think your brain just naturally thinks that way. We've talked several times on the podcast about adding a zero or taking away a zero. So that's what I'm talking about is thinking strategically, thinking about how to scale. And I wonder if sometimes for me, if I'm thinking that way, I can make things too complex. The individualization or the strategic, the ideation will come in and say, we could do this. Or if you prefer, we could do this. Or we could set it up like this. And we could start here and then we could get here and then we could do this. And then in five years, we'll be here. And all the client hears is like, wait, what? Do you ever find that or is that just me?   Lisa: Well, okay. Focus comes right in, number six. futuristic right behind it. And so the way those two come together, because you dream into the future. And if you add an ideation, the way you just described it can sound like all the ideas and mine comes in like, okay, here's where we're going into the future. what are we going to choose? And it, it's this constraint thing that comes through. And luckily, I have that one Executing talent in my Top 14. And I would say Strategic very much is a prioritizer as well. So between Strategic and Focus, it's like, I have a million ideas, and I would like to create a dozen products that would be really fun and that is not the most productive use of my time because i could easily go out of business just creating stuff that i never get up on the website never sell never create messaging or marketing for And I do think I'm not the only one like that. I think there are so many coaches and trainers and speakers who are, we're into the craft, we're into the thing that we came here to deliver. And it's really fun to create resources and create products and create things and have these new ideas. And The easy thing to forget is if it doesn't have a price tag attached, if it isn't getting sold, it's just getting created, it's not keeping us in the state of a viable business. So I'm really fortunate for the strength of focus and strategic to be my prioritizers and say, no matter how fun that is, can it be priced? Can it be marketed? Can it be sold? Can it be put into an efficient system? And if not, I'm just going to table it until a client's ready to pay for it.   Brea: I love it. So this is reminding me at the top of our conversation, I was thinking, we started talking about discounts. Okay. Can we just go there? I just want to talk about this.   Lisa: I think we probably should. I mean, we started off talking about 70% off chicken and everybody likes to talk about discounts when pricing comes up.   Brea: So here's the thing. I learned this in high school when I started selling Mary Kay. That's a whole nother podcast episode. But instead of offering it a discount, if you feel like you need to or you want to, you're insecure that you don't think the market's going to bear the price, whatever your reason is. consider, instead of offering a discount, consider adding more value. So instead of saying, I'll take this percent off or I'll take this amount off, say, look, this is the price, but if you buy four sessions, right, or my favorite is if you pay in full upfront, figure out what your ask is, right? Then, if you do this for me, then I will give you this extra thing, an extra session, or maybe you offer a discount then, but only offer a discount if they have given you something that's valuable. It's so easy for me to offer a small percentage discount if they pay in full up front for their workshop. You know, that means I don't have to chase them down. That means I have all of the money that I need to go buy all the supplies. I mean, it's just so much easier. It's worth a little bit of a discount for me. But my favorite thing is instead of discounting, add more value.   Lisa: I love this topic so much. Okay. You can add more, add more value. Here's another example of add more value. I work with associations sometimes to deliver a speech and they're usually a little more formulaic. They know what they pay for speakers. Yeah. And if you don't fit the market rate, they'll be like, Oh, you're over market on this thing. And so there's a whole deal there. And the way that I've overcome that almost every time is offering webinar to the audience. For example, I'm going to do an in-person speech somewhere and my rate is higher than the market rate they were hoping for. Now I'm offering a one-hour webinar. It could be a pre-event. It can be a post-event. And look what's so beautiful about this is that so many times they'll be like, oh, can we offer this to our greater audience, all of our association members, instead of that one state?   Brea: Can you give me free marketing? Sure.   Lisa: Yeah. Yes. You just nailed it, Brea. And that's what I'm doing to add more value because they need to justify to somebody else internally that this person is worth more worth. I'm putting in quotes more financially than this other person because they're offering this other stuff. So be thinking of what are these add ons you could bring. And sometimes it's also the line item. Like if we pay for A book, or a souvenir-y thing, or an e-book, or you have a video, or you do a pre-something or other. Just think of all the things you could do to add value. It's a huge category. The opposite, I have a whole other category to bring up. Tell me if you've done this. Nope. No matter what, I've been given this budget. It can't go over this amount. I only have this to work with. It doesn't matter how much you sweeten it up. Now, of course, they wouldn't say it like that to you.   Brea: I mean, you know, yeah, okay.   Lisa: We work with so many good clients, but they would just be like, sorry, Charlie, this is what I got. Then can you scope it down? So if they're saying, let's do an in-person and you priced it at $7,500 and they don't have that, they say, I'm sorry, I love you so much. You are my favorite of the three people we're talking to, but I only have $3,500. to work with? What if you then scope it down? What if it becomes virtual training? What if you have a version, if let's say you are a CliftonStrengths trainer, and now you do a version without assessments instead of with assessments, and you kick off the concept of a strengths-based focus? There are so many small things you can do to scale down, to scope down, And then you're getting the price that you like your price instead of the other. So there's another option as well. How can you scope down to meet their budget?   Brea: I love it. And I've done both. And yes, yes, yes. I think also what's coming to mind is in the proposal offering multiple options at the same time. So I'm curious, Lisa, if you do this or not. I always offer three different price points so that It kind of is anticipating this conversation, right? And it's literally a side-by-side comparison so they can see, look, here's the outcome that you're looking for. Here's three different ways that we can deliver it. One is virtual. One is in person, right? Let's just do two for the ease of conversation today. they can see side-by-side the price difference for that and they understand why they're going to pay more for me to come in person or, you know, the scope down is, like, they can understand why that's less, right? And maybe one is the top tier includes all the yummy swag, just different things that someone may or may not want to include in their bottom line. I think having different options from the beginning allows them to see what is possible and decide where they want to spend their money. That's what I do. Do you do something similar or do you always start with one thing and then go up or down depending on what they say?   Lisa: I love the approach. I absolutely do it. I love having options. I love having options that paint a future vision so that they can see ways you can work together in the future. They can see where you go from here. And even if it's aspirational to start, often they do come back a year later and say, okay, now we see that grander thing and we're ready for it. So I love it strategically and also just to give them choices because a lot of times they don't realize they have the choices.   Brea: Yeah, and I think I agree. And this is something that I need to work on because we've already talked about this. I see way far into the future. I want to have an impact. And so it's hard for me to just be like, sure, I'll come do a little one-off event for you. I try to sell them the big, full, major impact. But I'm talking about something different. I'm thinking about like, the same thing, not different offers, not like a five-year contract versus a one-off event. I'm talking about a one-off event at three different price points.   Lisa: Mm-hmm.   Brea: Yeah.   Lisa: Okay. Sure. Yeah. And I don't do that as much as I do, though, for sure, having one grand division included in there. And I wouldn't want to get too crazy and give them five versions so I could accomplish it all. So it would depend on the needs assessment call and what comes up. Yeah, totally. If it feels like, hey, we are going to move forward. We're doing this kickoff event. And it's like, is this virtual? Is this in-person? And does it include coaching? Or is it only group? Like something really simple, just those versions.   Brea: Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I love this. So I keep thinking about how the different talent themes, the different domains of talent even affects how we price. I wonder if the relationship builders out there, relater, developer, maybe includer, are these themes looking for longer term clients that they can grow with over time? Are you looking for pricing structures that that are maybe lower client volume, less people, and higher retention, right? So that you can kind of stay with them. What pricing structure makes sense to honor your desire to work with a client in that way?   Lisa: I bet your theory is really strong for people with relationship themes. It's not necessarily how I think about the original contract, but I do think it brings the people back for referrals. It brings them back for repeat business later. So I do think it proves the theory in a little different way for me.   Brea: Something else that comes to mind for me, I really, really like having flexible pricing, flexible offers. You know, there's that individualization, maybe that includer, maybe that empathy. You know, if I can tell that someone really doesn't have the money, there are lots of ways to pull on my heartstrings, you know? So I like customizing and like having flexibility, knowing that I can charge one thing today and And I can change my mind and charge more or less later. Right. And I think that that comes from a lot of my flexible talent themes, whereas the talents that I don't have might want some more structured, stable, you know, pricing structures.   Lisa: Yeah, I love that you're bringing up the domains and that you raise the idea of each of our individual strengths and where they would come in, tendencies and how we think about pricing, tendencies and how we lean toward one of these pricing strategies or another and just being free to honor what feels great to us, what feels really aligned with us in our natural talents. And I don't think that's a conversation that would usually come up with pricing. And if I gave closing thoughts, I just feel like the beauty is what feels right to you. You have to start somewhere. And sometimes it is the swag. And excuse my French, but sometimes it is strategic, wild-ass guess. And that is where you start, because you don't know where the market is. And then you layer in that. where do my strengths, where do they want to be, what feels aligned with me, what feels an integrity with me as a person and the business I want to build. And then, you know, if it's something that you're talking to me about, Lisa, I'm going to be saying, do the math. Now, check it against the math. Does this work to create a viable business? Because it is easy to overlook that part and then get way into it and realize, oh my gosh, I'm working like mad and I work so many hours and now I'm in an 80 hour a week job and I'm not making ends meet and that's just because you didn't do the math of the strategy. So math it out at the beginning, make sure it'll work and all those pieces come together beautifully and the experiments turn into what is a beautiful aligned business.   Brea: I love it and also I don't work like that. You know, when I hear you and I'm like, yes, that sounds so smart. And I also hear, but how will I know? The numbers change all the time. What the market can bear changes. So I don't do market based pricing because I expect it to change and I don't think I can count on it. And for me, my priority is charging what my strengths can sustain. the market may or may not sustain that price. You know, they may or may not be able to bear that price, but what can I continue to deliver? What can I continue to sustain as far as what I'm offering and what prices, you know, what do I need to charge to sustain me, my energy, my happiness and my business, you know, my profit?   Lisa: Yeah. And that is the beauty of this show. Right? We don't agree. And it's so awesome. You don't run your business like I run my business. You don't have the same brain that I have. And we both have had long-term businesses. And we're giving people what, yeah, here's the reality. Here's what she's done. Here's what I've done. And we do it differently. And both of them work. And that is so inspiring because you have choices.   Brea: It's amazing. I mean, it brings us full circle to the beginning of the conversation, right? There's no right way to price except what's right for you. So really, it sounds cheesy, you know, but it really is true. So be honest with yourself and figure out what works for you. Go for it.   Lisa: Is there a tagline for that game show, The Price is Right? It feels like we should do something cheesy. What's the… That's hilarious. Okay. Now I remember that sound from my grandparents' house.   Brea: Yes.   Lisa: Always watched it.   Brea: I used to watch Prices Right as a kid. It was like my favorite thing when I was sick and had to stay at home. Prices Right, 10 o'clock a.m., boom, on the couch, I am there, you know? I auditioned for, I don't think I did the Prices Right, but I did audition for Wheel of Fortune once, and that was super fun.   Lisa: You did, ooh. I mean, communication, words, sounds right. Yeah, yeah. And did it happen? What was it like?   Brea: No, I didn't make it, but it was really fun. I would love to be a game show host. This is like my true dream life would be to host a game show.   Lisa: I could see it. I could absolutely see it. Yeah. Yeah.   Brea: Or talk show that has a game show portion. Oh my gosh, let's go.   Lisa: Well, then, I mean, you could get some practice. We have a podcast, which is kind of like a talk show, and if you added a game show element, which you'll have to noodle on, we could do it.   Brea: Oh, my gosh. Okay, people, come to the podcast meetup. We're having a game show. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. We're going to figure it out. Come on. BreaRoper.com to get the invite. Boom.   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook | Tools for Coaches ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.  

In this episode, we tackle the often-taboo topic of…money. Specifically, money blocks – those pesky limiting beliefs that can hold us back in business. We share our personal experiences with money narratives that shaped our views on wealth and success. From feeling guilty about charging for work we love, to the fear of being perceived as "slimy" when selling, we get real about how these beliefs can impact our businesses. You'll hear us discuss the importance of recognizing these narratives and how they can affect your mindset and performance. If you've ever felt stuck in your relationship with money or unsure about how to confidently ask for what you deserve, this episode is for you! Join us as we unpack these themes and encourage you to check in on your own money mindset. Let's break those blocks together!   🌟   Work With Us! BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.   Takeaways ●      Understanding Money Blocks: Money blocks are limiting beliefs and behaviors that can hinder your ability to earn and ask for money. Recognizing these blocks is the first step toward overcoming them. ●      Personal Narratives Matter: Money narratives shaped by our upbringing can influence adult perceptions of wealth and success. ●      Selling is Helping: Selling doesn't have to be a slimy or uncomfortable act. Instead, when you focus on providing solutions and helping others, you can shift your mindset around sales. ●      The Importance of Mindset: Mindset plays a crucial role in your business success. Feeling confident and positive about what you offer can significantly impact how others perceive you and your services. ●      Undercharging: Many people assume they need to charge lower rates until they gain more experience. However, it's essential to recognize your worth and not undervalue your skills, as there are always clients willing to pay for quality services.   Take Action ●      Identify Your Money Blocks: Reflect on your personal beliefs and narratives around money. Consider how these beliefs may be affecting your business decisions and overall mindset. Write down any limiting beliefs you recognize. ●      Challenge Undercharging: If you find yourself undercharging for your services, evaluate your qualifications and experience. Research market rates for your industry and consider adjusting your pricing to reflect your true value. ●      Reframe Selling: Shift your perspective on selling from being a slimy or uncomfortable experience to viewing it as an opportunity to help others. Practice articulating how your services provide solutions and benefits to potential clients. ●      Invest in Yourself: Assess your willingness to invest in your personal and professional development. Identify areas where you can seek coaching or training to enhance your skills and confidence in selling. ●      Join a Supportive Community: Engage with others who are also working through their money narratives. Consider joining Lisa's "Tools for Coaches" or Brea's podcast listener meetups to share experiences and strategies for overcoming money blocks. 🎧   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   AI-Generated Transcript Lisa: I'm Lisa.   Brea: I'm Brea.   Lisa: And today, oh, we're talking about money, money, money, money. null: Money.   Brea: I was like, oh, this is so high.   Lisa: I got my silly voice on. I can hit the high notes with my silly voice. Money.   Brea: I love it.   Lisa: Money blocks.   Brea: Oh, money blocks. Okay, I am here for this. Yes. This is real, folks.   Lisa: This is real. It's getting real. What are money blocks? I mean, let's say I would define this as limiting beliefs around money. I would define it as behaviors you make in your business that are driven from a money narrative that may not be serving you or your business? Yeah, that's good. How would you define these?   Brea: I mean, maybe what blocks me from making money? Hey, yeah. Yeah. What blocks me from making money, from asking for money, from selling? Yeah. What are those blocks?   Lisa: Well, you said it's about to get real. So if we're going to talk business owner money blocks, why don't we just get open and share the ones we've dealt with personally so that people can see we're humans who deal with stuff too. And then we can happily share, since we've both worked with many coaches, some of the trends in the narratives that we hear from our clients.   Brea: Yeah. I mean, gosh, already I'm feeling it, you know? Like money touches everything. Money makes the world go round, right? I mean, love makes the world go round, but really money makes the world go round, you know? And if you have it, it affects your mindset. And if you don't have it, it affects your mindset. And if you need it, it affects your mindset, which mindset affects performance. Like there's just, so much where the money block, it's not the money. Money is not the thing. The selling, not the thing. It's something underneath that that blocks us from asking for it or from believing that we deserve it. That's what comes to my mind first, is that it's not about the money. There's something else underneath that is the block.   Lisa: Yeah. Oh, yeah. As you said that, I was thinking of acceptance, and I know that has been a thing in my career with the family that I grew up in. Now, my parents were luckily not wealth haters or anything like that, so I didn't get those money block narratives where I would think I'm an evil person if I made money. But I did grow up in a pretty poor area and it was not going to be celebrated if somebody was successful. And I do, I live a charmed life right now. I have a couple of houses. I live in Texas part-time. I live in Colorado part-time. I live in the RV when the weather isn't great in either of those. I mean, I live an amazing life. And I really, as I was coming into that and coming into success, I did a lot of things to minimize it and I would always be the one, like if I went back to visit my family in the Midwest, they would be like, did you fly or drive? And I knew the correct answer was drive because flying was something people did when they had money. And so if I flew, I would say, oh, I have points because work paid for so many trips. So, I would minimize to be accepted. I didn't really realize, of course, at the time I was trying to be accepted, but I was trying to give the acceptable answer. And what I realize now on the other side of it is that the narrative that was the money block for me is probably some version of toil is respectful, but eating bonbons by the pool is not. So, any version of like, oh, must be nice, you can just go hang out over there without the hard work. So, this thing of toil and hard work, it's been really difficult to shake because it's always felt good to work hard, work long. And there's been a resistance over the years to figure out like, what would the easy button be? What would it look like to not have to work so hard for money? I didn't really even want to explore that for a long time. And I think that's why, that acceptance. So that's been my money block, probably the biggest one over my lifetime.   Brea: Oh, there's so much there. There's so much there. I relate with that so much. Also from the Midwest. Hey, Kansas City. Hey. Also from a hardworking family. I'm the oldest of eight kids. Everybody that listens to the podcast knows that I have an enormous Catholic family. My dad worked and my mom stayed home. So one income for all of those mouths and five boys, four of them were teenagers at the same time. So, I mean, I'm painting the picture, right? Okay. I mean, I don't remember a time when we felt that we didn't have enough, right? But I knew that we didn't have a lot, you know, and I knew that we had to be careful. And my mom is amazing. at what she was able to do with so little. I've learned so many hacks from her as far as how to save and how to ration and how to just like get the most out of everything. And also that kind of messes with your psyche a little bit, you know, when now as an adult, I really want to have this abundance mindset. And I can tell sometimes that that scarcity mindset that I grew up with and just because money was scarce, you know, still like creeps in as an adult. So it's interesting. Yeah.   Lisa: How do you see it creep into things you say in your business, ways you act in your business? How do you see it really showing up? Things you say?   Brea: Well, you know, the thing that's coming to mind is actually before I started my business, when I was a missionary for four years, I fundraised my entire income. And that was so crazy, going to people and asking them to give me their paycheck, basically, right? A part of their paycheck to pay me to do my work. Such a, such a strange, thing. And I remember it bothered me so much, hello communication, where words really matter, when people would say, oh, we just can't, or we don't have it, we don't have the money. And I just remember thinking, yes, you do. Everyone does. You just are choosing to spend it somewhere else, you know, and not in a not in a judgment way. Like, sorry if it came out that way, because that's not the intention of like, you should give it to me. Just didn't like. Yeah. Like we all have money. So. I think hearing other people tell me that every day for four years really made me aware of when I used those words, where I found myself making excuses and not really taking agency in my own choices. So, in a lot of ways, but especially around money. Lisa: Tell me about, in the clients you've worked with, what is, let's say, the number one money block you hear when they're experiencing their own narratives about money?   Brea: Well, the same thing. We don't have the budget. Yes, you do. You just chose to use it somewhere else.   Lisa: Yeah, exactly. I'd say my number one from the coach, trainer, speaker, business owner perspective is some version of the stereotypical slimy salesperson. where they're like, I'm totally comfortable with delivering the service that I sell. But offering the service in a sales capacity feels completely uncomfortable. And I worry about being judged. And that whole process feels totally off. That is a, in my opinion, it's a money block because it's when the money conversation comes up that everything changes in their mind and suddenly they're uncomfortable with the service they offer.   Brea: Yeah. Why do you think that is? Like what's the thing under the thing?   Lisa: There has to be something about being perceived and judged and maybe they have listened to sales stereotypes, like maybe they've experienced the, you know, I don't want to pick on the used car salesman, but everyone knows that metaphor where it's pushy and it's inauthentic and it's one-sided and selfish because they're just trying to line their pocket. I think there's something about that judgment, but I don't think I mean, the vast majority of coaches and trainers and speakers, we get into this work because we have some beautiful message or some beautiful mindset shift or some beautiful thing we have to offer the world and it comes from a genuine place. So then there has to be a narrative under that about how they fear being judged because I don't think they're icky. My clients aren't slimy. My clients aren't one-sided. My clients aren't all out for the money, but not out for the service. They're out to serve. Sometimes I'll ask people, they're like, I don't want to feel pushy and slimy. And I'll be like, are you a slimy person? And they're like, well, no.   Brea: It's such an interesting conversation because we know that's true. I mean, anyone listening is like, yeah, duh, of course. But we don't feel that. It's a battle in our brains to believe that. And I wonder if part of it comes from when you are the product, as a service provider, it's me that people are buying. Perception matters because it's not just how they perceive you as a salesperson. You want them to perceive you as someone they can trust, someone that they can partner with and work with for a long time, someone that they can refer to their friends. I mean, there's so much wrapped up in how they perceive you. And it's just too easy to wrap that up with our own identity.   Lisa: Yeah. Oh, I think the audience will really resonate with that. I just delivered a training yesterday where someone brought up exactly that point where you said, it's me. She raised that idea like, so when a no is a rejection of me, it feels like It feels that way. Right. Versus is it a fit or not? It's just a rejection that it's not a fit right now for whatever various reasons. And I think I would lead into another money block and it is this thing I hear from coaches and trainers and speakers when they're newer in the business. And it's, I'm not going to charge market rates until I'm more experienced. So there's this thing, there's this waiting, I'm not ready yet, I'm not good enough yet, some of that underlying stuff. And on one hand, I can totally appreciate it. Like, okay, if you feel like you're in the apprentice phase, charge apprentice rates, it's all great. But for a lot of people, like we're talking about someone who already spent 15 years being in talent development, they've been delivering and these amazing corporate audiences, they have a PhD in industrial organizational psychology, they're ready. They're ready. They're hedging and that thing feels comfortable to be like, I'm going to discount, I'm going to charge less, I'm going to get in. So it's always relative. Number one, if you think, oh my gosh, who am I to charge $300 for a coaching session? It's one hour of my time. When I was in corporate, if you translated my salary, it would come down to this, it would be less. You can come up with these rationalizations. And meanwhile, there's a person next door to you who is charging $3,000 for a one hour virtual training. And there's someone next door to them charging $30,000 for their program. And I bring up that relative thing. I'm always talking about adding zeros, dropping zeros. And if you really search around, I mean, there are plenty of speakers. I am not exaggerating. There are plenty of speakers who charge $30,000 for a speech. It's for 45 minutes or an hour. And people gladly exchange the money for that. So Then saying how could I charge $300 for an hour sounds absurd related to $30,000. So there's always someone relative who will be willing to charge less, who will be willing to charge more, who is presumably like more able to command those rates because of experience, exposure, whatever they've done to build their business, market their business, et cetera. So it's not a, logical thing that I'm not going to charge rates until I'm more experienced for most people. The beginner rate kind of thing. I think it's a fallacy. I think most people we work with are ready and they've been ready a long time and it's just a way to feel comfortable. And then of course you anchor your clients in those low rates forever and it's kind of brings its own things to, to, um, overcome later, which can be a pricing episode conversation.   Brea: Yeah, undercharging is such a, that's such a big money block. And there are so many reasons why people undercharge. You know, I don't feel good enough. That sounds to me like a shadow side of responsibility or learner or, you know, some of these themes that really value excellence. And they see that there's so much more that they can learn, so many more certifications that they could have. So to you, it might seem like you're not ready, right? My experience in nonprofit spaces There's a lot of money blocks that I see from coaches who just expect, they just assume that the nonprofit can't pay or the church can't pay. Let me tell you. I've worked with some nonprofits that have more expendable income than a lot of for-profit organizations, businesses, companies, because they have to spend it every year. There's a deadline, you know? Yeah, it's interesting the blocks that we put in, whether it's because of my upbringing thinking like, oh, because we were poor, everybody's poor, right? I never had money, so I don't know that other people have money, right? If $100 feels like a lot to me, because I never saw a $100 bill until, I don't know when, but I mean,   Lisa: But that's that relative thing. Yeah. That's right. For one person, a hundred dollar bill is a ton of money. For the next person, their parents had a hundred dollar bill dispenser. Anytime they needed it, it was just a little bit. So it depends.   Brea: I love how you're bringing this up. You can't expect or assume because you just don't know and you don't know until you ask. And what do you say, Lisa, about asking?   Lisa: What do I say? Do I have a saying about asking that I've forgotten? You don't ask, the answer is no. Yeah, the answer is no. Yes, I do have a saying, I forgot.   Brea: Yeah, if you don't ask, the answer is no.   Lisa: That's right. Oh, I love how you've twisted this into like a full continuum because I was thinking very much about that person who has that underlying I'm not worthy element, but you know, you don't realize that, but that's a lot of times that's what's underneath. this thing about not charging market rates. And you have this full continuum you've revealed all the way over to just simple assumptions. And funny enough, this came up in the same workshop I was talking about that I delivered yesterday. Somebody mentioned that very thing about nonprofits. If you've grown up in that world, you might assume no one has money. But I know personally from my business, although I didn't specialize in nonprofits, I have a lot of them on my client roster. And some of them came across as like really struggling for funds and others came across as absolutely flush with funds and would say as much and what I expressed to this person yesterday was the thing about nonprofits that's so cool is they're so used to fundraising. They're so open about saying, I don't have money for that, that if you offer your actual market rate and they don't have money for that, that's what they're going to say. They're not going to run away and say, oh, I'm going to ghost this person and never respond if you've built some rapport and they like you. They're going to say, Oh my gosh, we don't have that budget at all. We were expecting them to spend X. They tell you they're one of the most upfront markets I've ever been around. So why offer something tiny, making an assumption upfront.   Brea: Yes. And also what I'm, in my experience, they are very upfront. They'll say, we don't have the money and I can come back and say, okay, great. Where can you get it? Because they are very comfortable with fundraising. They, that's how they get all of their money. So if they don't have it now, they have a list of, you know, thousands of donors that It's got to be one person on that list that is passionate about you know, supporting whatever it is You know talent development for for the team so it's almost easier for them to add things into the budget that aren't already there because Because they can you know, it's very different that way then different than a corporate budget. That's like locked in, you know So far in advance and there's just no No to little wiggle room, you know Yes, yeah, I think this is a fun tour.   Lisa: I like the idea that we all Experience money we all exchange money We all have a narrative on money whether it's absolute abundance or absolute scarcity and all the things in between and they're not static. Sometimes they change depending on where we are in our lives and different phases. And it's a great one to check in on and just ask yourself, do you have any money narratives going on right now that you think are getting in the way of your life goals, your business goals, and what could it look like to work on that block?   Brea: Yeah. So I'll summarize by, Just kind of summarizing the blocks that I think we identified, undercharging for whatever reason, a fear of selling, maybe because of rejection or even I don't know how to do it. We didn't talk about that, but I think a lot of people, they've seen it done poorly and they don't know how to do it well. So there's a fear there of selling. I would call my early comments about having a resistance to investing in yourself, investing in your business, you know, that feels luxurious when we need to just kind of cover our survival first. And then I wish we could do, maybe we'll do a whole nother episode on this idea that work has to be hard. Right, and there's so much guilt that people carry. We're making money doing something that you love and this is the core of strengths is that you can and you you should if I may should on our listeners we We should be able to do what we love every day and sometimes we feel guilty getting paid for that.   Lisa: So Right a lot of money blocks that I heard Yeah, I would add I'm not ready. That one is kind of the undertone on the, I'm not going to charge market rate yet, but I will maybe someday in the future later.   Brea: Yes.   Lisa: And those who decided that selling is slimy and therefore they get a money block around it because they won't open their mind to the opposite that selling is helping.   Brea: Yeah. So find someone else to sell for you. If really you can't get around it, then don't try. Because here's the thing is that when you show up and you aren't confident in yourself or in your business, nobody is going to buy from you. Nobody wants that, right? You are the one person that should be most confident about what you're selling. And so if you're not feeling confident for whatever reason, there are other things in your personal life that are affecting how you're feeling that day. It's important to make sure that you've slept and that you've drank water and you've moved your body and you've gotten some sunshine, like all of those things affect your energy and and how you feel and how you're thinking about yourself and your business. And that all comes into your sales calls. So mindset is a huge part of it, but make sure that you're being a good boss to yourself and you are setting yourself up for success so that you are not the money block. Get yourself out of the way.   Lisa: Yes. And you know, I'll just, add on to your closing thought by affirming that and saying, I worked on sales teams, I worked in sales, and then later served sales teams internally in multiple ways. And look, this is a thing for sellers. It is known on all these teams. People get on a roll. They will be on fire, unstoppable. And then they'll get in a rut, and they cannot get out of the rut. And so much of it is the mindset, and it's the literal state. They're allowing themselves to stay in, whether it's a high or whether it's a low. And we can change our state in the moment. We can change the energy we bring to a room. And if you have one of these blocks about selling and you've decided it's a bad, icky thing, then every time you decide, oh, I'm flipping into sales mode. Oops, I guess I'm icky. Now your whole energy changes, your dynamic, the way you feel, the way you come across, the way they receive you, your confidence, all of that changes. Your speech patterns, they feel it. I can't hide it. Yes. This is why it's so important to get your mind right around it because if you bring that energy where it's like, you gotta buy this, it's so incredible, everyone needs this, it's amazing. That is a totally different place from like, okay, now we gotta pause and talk about the icky stuff. That totally changes the momentum and they pick up on that and their momentum changes as well. So I totally agree with that. 100%.   Brea: This is not the place to fake it until you make it here. People see right through it, just like you have seen right through the slimy salesperson. So just be confident in what you're bringing and who you are. And if you can see sales, like Lisa said, if you can see it as an opportunity to to help to fix a problem. You're giving them a solution. You're making their life better. You're giving them the tools that they need to improve their life or their business. I mean, come at it from a strengths lens and you'll win every time.   Lisa: You will win. Yes. Come on. Let's go. All right, if you need work on this, if you're like, I'm hearing you, but I am not there, leadthroughstrengths.com slash getcoached. I would be happy to coach you on the mindset side of it. Or tools for coaches is the other link from the main menu where you can be around other people who are constantly working on business acumen, mindset, et cetera. How about if they want to work with you, Brea?   Brea: Yeah. Well, we've got some listeners who have been coming to these little meetups to discuss the podcast episodes. So if you'd like to talk to me and other listeners about the money blocks that you're experiencing and how to get over it, just go to the website, brea roper.com and you can sign up for the invite to those zoom meetups. Zoom, zoom,   Lisa: zoom, zoom, zoom on over there.   Brea: All right. Money, money,   Lisa: money.     Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.  

As entrepreneurs, we often find ourselves in tShohe dual role of both boss and employee, and it can be challenging to navigate that dynamic. In our last episode, Lisa & I talked about being a bad boss to ourselves, so this time we're flipping the script. We start by remembering how, as our own boss, we have the unique opportunity to create our ideal work environment and set our own priorities. So, how do we use that to our advantage? How can we be a good boss to ourselves? Whether you're just starting out or looking to refine your approach, this episode is packed with insights to help you set yourself up for success by becoming the best boss you can be! 🌟 Work With Us! BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.   Takeaways Prioritize Your Life Values: One of the most empowering aspects of being your own boss is the ability to set your own priorities and values. Unlike traditional employment, where your contributions and responsibilities are often dictated by someone else, as an entrepreneur, you have the freedom to define what success looks like for you. Make the time to reflect on your life priorities. Then, align your business goals accordingly. This clarity will not only guide your decisions, but also help you stay motivated and fulfilled. Honor Your Natural Rhythms: Recognize when you're at your best, and structure your work around those times. Whether that means scheduling meetings at times that suit your energy levels or allowing yourself breaks when needed (afternoon siesta, anyone?), being attuned to your own needs can lead to greater productivity and satisfaction. Remember, you have the flexibility to create a work environment that truly supports you! Celebrate Your Wins: It's easy to get caught up in the hustle and forget to acknowledge your achievements, big or small. But a good boss always recognizes effort, praises progress, and celebrates achievement. This boosts your morale and reinforces a positive mindset, making the entrepreneurial journey more enjoyable. So, give yourself a high five or a proverbial pat on the back. You deserve it! Set Clear Expectations: This is crucial. A good boss is kind, and clarity is kindness. Knowing what success looks like on a daily, weekly, and monthly basis helps you stay focused and motivated so you get the results you're after. Practice Kind Self-Talk: The way you communicate with yourself matters. Approach your self-talk with curiosity and kindness, just as you would with a team member, to foster a supportive and encouraging environment for your growth. Would you talk to a friend or teammate the way you talk to yourself? If not, it's time to make a change.   Take Action ●      Define Your Life Priorities: Set aside some time to identify and prioritize what matters most to you in your life and business. Reflect on how these priorities can shape your entrepreneurial journey. ●      Set Clear Expectations: Establish a ritual to clarify expectations for yourself on a daily basis. What does success look like for you? How will you get there? What do you need to be successful? ●      Honor Your Natural Rhythms: Pay attention to your body's rhythms, including sleep cycles and energy levels. Track your rhythms to identify when you're most energized and productive. Schedule your work and meetings accordingly. ●      Practice Positive Self-Talk: Be mindful of the conversations you have with yourself. Replace self-criticism with curiosity and kindness, treating yourself as you would a valued team member. Write affirmations for yourself. Speak them out, proud, loud, and often. ●      Celebrate Your Wins: How will you make it a habit to acknowledge and celebrate your achievements, no matter how small? Daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly. Recognize the effort you put in and take time to appreciate your progress. 🎧 Listen to the full episode, then let us know your thoughts! How do you practice being a good boss to yourself? Share your experiences in the comments below! #LeadThroughStrengths #Entrepreneurship #SelfLeadership #Podcast #CelebrateWins   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   AI-Generated Transcript Lisa: I'm Lisa. Brea: I'm Brea. Lisa: And today we're talking about a thing that Brea was so born ready to do. Tell them, Brea. Brea: I am born to be a good boss to myself. Lisa: I think you are. You're way better. Brea: I wish I was. It was just a big fat lie and it didn't feel good coming out. Lisa: The lie detectors in the room can be like, nope, I could tell she was forcing that excitement. Brea: Oh, I want to be a good boss to myself. I'm trying to be a good boss to myself. It's hard. It's hard, which is why we're talking about this today. It's hard. Lisa: Yes. So in past episodes, we've covered being a bad boss to yourself. So today we'll cover being a good boss to yourself and what some things are we've experimented with in terms of strategy and just the successes. Like you look back over the time in business and you see, oh, well, here are some things that worked. So I'm happy to share a few things that have worked for me. There are a few ways I've been a good boss to myself. There are many ways I've been a bad boss to myself. But today's focus will be all about the good. Brea: Yeah. You know, after our last episode on being a bad boss to yourself, I was just like, I can't leave this here. We have this amazing opportunity as entrepreneurs to do it the way that we want to do it. you know, let's dream a little bit about if we had the best boss ever, who would we love to work for? What would that life look like for us? And can we be that for ourselves? Lisa: Yes. And you know, being the good boss to yourself, you just built one of the items in right in that statement. And this is an area where I think it's distinct from being an employee is you get to decide who are you going to be to yourself? What are you going to create for a company? What's your life going to be like? What are the roles going to be like? everything about it, you get to make it up. And it is a distinct difference in what life can be like as an entrepreneur. And you just have to grant yourself that permission. And I love how you said that, because you basically, you just gave item number one, how to be well, there you go. Brea: You know, if I was born to do something, it's to get things rolling. Lisa: Let's go. And to dream, you know, you're always the dreamer. So there you go. Dream up what you want your life to be like. Brea: Yes, you know, I love helping people find clarity. And so that's something that I really try to do for myself is I need clear expectations. So to me, those are two separate things, like having a vision, knowing where we're going and having clear expectations. They both obviously can go together and clear expectations are like every day, every hour, every minute, you know, however minute you want to get. making sure that there's clarity so you know what does success look like and have you got there. Lisa: Yeah, totally. I think that is one of the key items for me. If I were to say, what am I doing when I'm being a good boss to myself, it would be when I'm putting my life priorities first. And that is an area that's really different from when I was an employee, because there's really a value exchange going on when you're an employee, where they're paying you to add some value to the organization. And they're specifying what that value is much of the time. Whereas when you are being a good boss to yourself, you can say, what are my life priorities? Now, sometimes like early in the business, absolutely. My life priorities were getting this thing off the ground, building revenue. And it was like a real revenue priority. But some years it's creativity. Some years it's some dream I have. Some years it's a lifestyle thing, which is more like current state. And I think that's a really cool thing we can do. It's a way we can be a good boss to ourselves that is just really unlike any other opportunity. It's such a cool thing about owning your own business. Brea: It really is. Yes. Prioritizing, having that choice, and not just priorities, but really setting your own values. Like you said, your life values. How does that affect your business values? How do you bring your life values, personal values to your business in a really intentional way. I think that's such a fun experiment, especially as you're just beginning to kind of create, what does this business look like? That's pretty fun. Yeah. Lisa: Yeah. So as you were talking about honoring values, I was thinking of another one that's kind of like honoring your own body rhythms, honoring your sleep cycles, honoring some of these things that you can do. Now I feel like I'm just selling being an entrepreneur. This is you being a good boss to yourself. And it's also you being able to do things you might not be able to do when you're in the constraints of a company's working hours or teams and the time zones they might have around the world. But wow, to be able to say, hey, I'm a person who starts meetings at 11 o'clock in the afternoon. That would be something you can't usually walk into an employment situation and say, I begin meeting availability at 11, whereas we can totally do that. Brea: We can totally do that. Yes. I have a couple of days on my schedule that I only have a few hours available for meetings. And I have a couple of days where I have no meeting availability. So being the boss and getting to choose and getting to decide, that's so good. Lisa: Yeah. Feels amazing. Brea: Yeah. I love the word honor. I think we've both said it several times, and I think that there's something to that. Some of us, if you're thinking about being a boss to yourself and being a good boss to yourself, that is probably coming from a place of wanting to honor your own natural rhythms, your strengths. There's something about maybe the place you are, the situation that you're in that feels like it's not honoring how you are at your best. you know, that's not to say that everyone should be or needs to be their own boss, because sometimes honoring what's best for us is, is realizing that we like it when someone else gives us the direction and that it's our job to just execute on that. So consider your own, your own rhythms, your own needs and your own talents, your own, you know, makeup in that way to decide is being a boss to myself, even something that really, honors me, or am I kind of just maybe attracted to some of the flashy things that look so great, you know? But on a day-to-day basis, is that actually best for me? Lisa: Well, I want to grab one of the things you said because you mentioned strengths. Well, hello, we're the Lead Through Strengths podcast. And everyone knows we're totally into the strengths lens. Being a good boss to yourself is, to me, very different in the strengths world than it was as an employee. I want to hear your opinion, too. But when I was a manager using the book StrengthsFinder, I would buy the book for every team member and we would talk about, what makes us come alive, what our fuels are, what our drains are. We would do this whole thing through the lens of strengths. And I would consciously bring up strengths through coaching conversations. I would just bake it into how we worked and operated and talked to each other. Well, when you're going it alone as a solopreneur, when you're being a boss to yourself, I have found it different. I actually have to really think...and I live in strengths world, and I have to very consciously say, "Hmm, if I apply my strengths to this situation, how would I do it?" And just in some of the silliest kind of ways, like I feel drained working on procurement processes at clients. So that's a thing that I have felt myself over the years getting drained by many times. I just wanted to be in the delivery or the marketing, but not the back end work of it. And it really took a while for me to say, Well, what would I do if I were in my strengths? And then it was obvious. Oh, I would use a team member to do this. I just had to consciously say, All right, if I were being a good boss to myself, what would I do here? How would I honor strengths? And I don't know why it suddenly became unnatural when it was me applying it to me. But when I was in leadership capacity, or I was in a corporate role, I really felt like it was more obvious that I needed to consciously apply strengths than when I went out on my own. Brea: Oh, I have so many thoughts about that. Tell us. I think the first thing that comes to my mind is, well, of course it's harder to apply it to ourselves because don't we say that to our clients all the time? Like our strengths are so close to us that we can't even see them, right? They feel so natural to us that we miss them, right? And so when we're in an office environment or a team environment and we're using strengths, it's more of the like, let's put the right people in the right seats on the bus because we have that luxury because we have multiple people and When we just have ourselves and we're doing all the things that's a much different scenario. So, of course, it's hard Lisa: Good point. Yeah. A lot of times this role has these responsibilities attached to it. And then you may not have certain capabilities as the business owner, but you need to cover those capabilities, whether you're doing those things yourselves or. yourself or hiring somebody else to do them. So it, you're right, it is a really different perspective there. And the way that I was wired when I started, I was like, I want to have at least a little bit of knowledge about everything that's going on. Because how could I be supportive in even decision making for someone if I have no clue what they're experiencing. So if I had outsourced procurement to someone in the first month of my business, I don't know if that would have been smart because I wouldn't have known what's going on. So I needed to go through some of the muck and then be able to outsource it. But I felt like early in the business, I wasn't proactively using my strengths. What would happen is I would be in whatever muck, something would be sucking the life out of me. And I would be like, Wait, this is supposed to be fun. I need to figure out how to work in my strengths. And then that would prompt me to ask myself questions about how to get in my strength zone. And that is a really different kind of, I wasn't doing that in corporate. I was just always using that as a filter. Whereas in my business, I would get down in the dregs of something and then say, Wait a minute, let's reframe this. How can we get into strength zone? Brea: Yes, it's such a good point because especially if you're at the beginning of this journey, if you haven't even started your business yet, you're just kind of thinking about it or, you know, in the process of setting it up. Sometimes you don't have the resources, you don't have the money, you don't have the time, you don't have the people. Finding the right people to outsource to is a job in and of itself, which may or may not be part of your strength set. I mean, there's so much that goes into creating opportunities for you to exist in your strengths at work every day. And that may or may not be something that you do well, depending on your talents. So it's such a just a place to to realize that if it feels exceptionally difficult for you and give yourself the grace and then surround yourself with the people and the resources that you need to make sure that you can show up and do what you do best every day in your business. Lisa: Yeah, that's right. I think the orientation to being a good boss to yourself in this way when it comes to outsourcing is really different. When I went out on my own and started bringing people into the company, I was thinking like a hiring manager. I need to find a person who can do all of these kind of things in the business. And so I was kind of looking for that one person to be a right hand. And that is what I did at this front end of the business. It was more like one or two contractors doing a huge amount of variety of things. And later what I learned is, oh, really being a good boss to myself would be outsourcing partners to do very small slices of tasks. And I think of the vendors or the contractors more like, hey, I'm just buying this small service from a person. That really helped me because then if a person ever turned over, it wasn't as much work to replace. They were really leaning into their strengths because they're really, really good already. I don't have to teach them. They already show up really good at that specific task. So that helped me a lot, but I really had to get into being an entrepreneur for a while before I started shifting my mindset like that. And it was really exciting then to use my strengths, but also someone else's strengths in these small slices. Whereas when you're employing people you have more of that corporate mentality. You don't think of it like that. You think of more like, I'm hiring one person who can figure out all these job duties. Brea: Yes. Yes. It's so good. So this idea of playing to your strengths and leveraging your strengths is beyond just your own CliftonStrengths profile. How do you run your business from a place of strength? How do you bring that strengths mindset to your business? How can you lead from strength in your business in general? Yeah. I love it. So my communication wants to talk about the conversations that we have with ourself. One thing that I think of when I think of good bosses and working for a good boss is there's trust there, there's psychological safety there. Do you have that with yourself? Or are you constantly critical, constantly punishing, constantly focused on that self-criticism? Or are you approaching yourself and your business with curiosity, with the kinds of words that you would say to a team member if you were their manager? Are you using those same words and approaches with yourself? Lisa: I have to know, since you lead through communication, are these conversations with yourself out loud? No. Yeah, I agree. It's a really important one. Are you at least being a good enough boss to yourself that you are having a conversation with yourself that is as kind as you would have with a stranger? I mean, that is a low bar. Brea: A low bar. Lisa: And how many people do we hear about or just really beating themselves up on all kinds of topics? I'm not good at marketing. I'm not good at selling. I'm not good at positioning. I don't know what my niche is. I cannot figure it out. I'm terrible at decisions. I don't know how to earn any revenue. I can't decide on my topics. I mean, we hear all kinds of things. You're not being a good boss to yourself. Brea: Yeah. We know that when our strengths are stressed, the weakness comes out. And boy, is there a lot of stress in owning your own business and being a boss to yourself. So pay attention to that. Just look for, you know, if you feel like if you hear yourself saying those things, I'm not good enough. I don't know what to do. I can't. pay attention to where those insecurities are coming from or where those disappointments or discouragements or criticism is coming from, it's likely a clue to your talent. I really believe that it's the things that we really care about, the places where we see that potential in us that really get us down. So just reframe it, you know, untie the lie and realize that the truth is you can and you are good enough and get curious with yourself just like you would with one of your clients, someone that you're coaching and ask yourself what needs to be true. I love that rhyme. Oh, it's trademarked, so don't try. Lisa: Yours or someone else's? Brea: It's mine, yeah. Lisa: Oh, look at you. Brea: Part of my proprietary framework, you know, it's fine, it's fine. Lisa: Amazing. Okay, so you were talking about your communication and some of the conversations with yourself. I would bring up some of the non-conversations with myself. Literally the downside of not talking to myself. What I mean by that is, okay, if I work myself into the ground and then I'm at a workplace with other people, I'm back at corporate in my past roles, you're going to have people in your life who look at you and go, hey, are you okay? You look really tired or you almost look sick today. Are you all right? You know, you have people who will check in, right? I would just not do that with myself. I would just be like, yeah, well, they're getting some bags under the eyes. Oh, keep pushing, you know, just completely keep ignoring because there are certain driving talents that I have, strategic, maximizer, focus, and those non conversations. I think those led to a real lesson about being a good boss to yourself because they were ways. I was a bad boss when I ignored them and really tuning into those signs and just stopping. So it's interesting to hear you with your communication talent. You're probably having a lot more proactive, ongoing conversations in your mind. And then for me, it was like the opposite. It was like the lack of that I had to recognize to be a good boss to myself. Brea: It's a difference in perspective. It's a difference in if I am not surrounded with the people and the environment that I'm used to and all of a sudden now I just have me, how do you intentionally do those body check-ins? Or now you have to bring your spouse into the conversation or a best friend into the conversation. You still need a best friend at work even if you're not in the office. Yeah. So it's just, it's all the things that we know about what makes a good leader, what makes a good boss and redirecting it and reapplying it in a way that makes sense for you. Like you're the boss and the employee and the contractor. Lisa: and the, you know, everything, you know, you are all of it and you can feel that as weighty, but you can also feel the amazing freedom of it. It's such a perfect full circle. Back to the beginning of this conversation where we were talking about honoring, honoring sleep, honoring body rhythms, honoring your soul, honoring your values to be a good boss to yourself. it is so important to remain tuned in. Because if you're not, you'll get those messages, but you won't get them in the nice, easy way. I had a mentor tell me, Lisa, you can get your messages with a feather or a hammer. And when you don't listen to the feathers, you're going to get the hammer over the head. And that is what my body was like. You're not listening, lady. Brea: Yeah. So here comes the hammer. You got to listen to this. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's why it's so important to be proactive. That's the thread that I'm really picking up from this conversation is don't wait until it's too late, you know, until you're drowning to reach out for help or until your body is shutting down, you know, don't wait, invest in your own development and growth. Find a coach. Hire a coach. Find other support to surround you, other people who are paying attention to you and who want your good in a personal way and a professional way. We need to be investing in ourselves because you're running the business. it's important to be proactive and investing in that way. Yeah. Lisa: That's a beautiful takeaway. I love that lesson for the whole episode that being a good boss to yourself is a practice. Being a good boss to yourself is a discipline. Brea: It's a listening. Yeah. Lisa: Yeah. Well, I just said what you said, so. Brea: Yeah, yeah. The last thing that I think is a good send-off, celebrate your wins. It should go without saying, especially on a strengths podcast, but I'm going to say it because we forget to do it, and you have to. Celebrate your wins, big, small, doesn't matter, but this is what a good boss does. They see the effort that's put in. They acknowledge it. They see the progress. They celebrate it. Not just the outcomes and not just the big checks. It's everything that you do. Being a boss is hard. It's, there's a lot in this world, you know, especially if you're just starting. I mean, what do they say? The majority of people quit, you know, after one year or after two years. So it's challenging, right? So every little win, you got to celebrate it. And yeah, what a great strengths approach to do that. And if you're setting those milestones, right, being a good boss to yourself is setting those milestones, having that vision, and then celebrating once you hit the milestones. Lisa: Yes, I second that. Everything you just said. And it can be structured, it can be milestones and goal achievement, but it can also just be like the moment of going, oh, that was really satisfying, that thing I just finished. And then you turn around and give yourself a high five. Brea: Show me. Yes. I love it. Yeah. I love it. Just like that pop-up card that you got so many years ago with those animals high-fiving. Lisa: Oh, I know. That's right. For people who have no idea what Brea's talking about, I love pop-up cards. It's ridiculous, but you open up a card and then, boom, it becomes 3D. I just think that is Brea: party all of a sudden. Yeah. Lisa: Yes. And then to make the party even greater, there was this thank you card series I gave them to clients. They probably thought I was such a dork, but I didn't. I just thought they were so much fun. They were different animals in each card. And when they popped up and became 3D, they gave each other high fives. Brea: That is so freaking cool. I know. Thank you for including everyone in the story. I was just going to make them go listen to every single episode to figure out what the heck we were talking about, you know, just to boost the, boost the engagement, you know, the algorithm. Lisa: You only have 11 years, 11 years worth to go listen to. Brea: Oh my gosh. Yes. I love that. I love that. Lisa: All right, well, everyone listening, let us know what you do to be a good boss to yourself. Come out, tell us on social, we'll post about this episode on LinkedIn, so find it there, or Lisa at Lead Through Strengths, and tell us where you want them to hit you at brearoper.com. Brea: Yeah, we've got the, the podcast listener community is up and rolling. We're meeting every other week in between episode drops. So if you want to sign up for that list, so you don't miss your opportunity to gather and share with the rest of your listener buddies. Um, that's on my website, brayroper.com slash lead through strengths. Lisa: Boom. All right. Well, Bree, go off and be a good boss to yourself today. Brea: Hey, let's all go be good boss to ourselves. I love it. Thanks, Lisa. I'll see you guys later. Lisa: See you next time.   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.  

In today's episode, we dive into the juicy topic of being a "bad boss" to ourselves as entrepreneurs. Isn't it funny how some of the very behaviors that made us decide to stop working for a bad boss, are often some of the same behaviors we do to ourselves. Things like overworking, neglecting self-care, not setting boundaries, working unreasonable hours, and more. Together, we explore how these bad boss behaviors can lead to burnout and resentment, So, if you're ready to stop being a bad boss to yourself and start thriving in your entrepreneurial journey, this episode is packed with insights and encouragement just for you! 🌟 Work With Us! BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.   Takeaways Here are three key takeaways from our conversation: The Importance of BoundariesOne of the biggest traps we fall into as entrepreneurs is the lack of boundaries. Whether it's working unreasonable hours or failing to take time off, we often push ourselves to the limit. In the episode, we discuss how setting clear boundaries (like blocking off time for personal commitments or vacations) can actually enhance our productivity and well-being. Remember, it's not just about working hard, it's about working smart and honoring your own needs. Understanding Your ValueMany of us struggle with pricing our services appropriately, often undercharging out of fear that clients won't pay for what we offer. We emphasize the importance of recognizing your worth and understanding the market value of your skills. By doing your research and setting fair prices, you not only protect your profits but also prevent burnout and resentment. Don't be afraid to charge what you're worth! The Power of CommunityNavigating the entrepreneurial landscape can be daunting, but you don't have to do it alone. We highlight the significance of surrounding yourself with a supportive community. Whether it's through mentorship, networking, or joining groups like Tools for Coaches, having a network can provide you with insights, accountability, and encouragement. Sharing experiences and learning from others can help you avoid common pitfalls and thrive in your business. Take Action Set Boundaries for Work Hours: Establish clear boundaries around your work hours to prevent burnout. Consider blocking off specific times for work, personal activities, and rest to maintain a healthy work-life balance. Implement a PTO Policy: Schedule regular time off by blocking out vacation weeks in advance. Aim for at least one week per quarter to ensure you take breaks and recharge, even if you don't have immediate plans. Time Block for Tasks: Create a structured schedule by time blocking for different types of work (e.g., emails, client calls, instructional design). This will help you manage your time effectively and ensure you allocate enough time for all necessary tasks. Evaluate Pricing Strategies: Reflect on your pricing model to ensure it reflects the value of your services. Research market rates and consider charging more for customized offerings to avoid burnout and resentment. Seek Community and Mentorship: Surround yourself with a supportive community or mentors who can provide guidance and share their experiences. Engage in discussions about challenges and solutions to avoid common pitfalls in entrepreneurship. 🎧If you're ready to stop being a bad boss to yourself and start building a business that aligns with your values and goals, tune in to this episode! Let's embrace the journey together and create a fulfilling entrepreneurial experience. 💬We'd love to hear your thoughts! How do you ensure you're being a good boss to yourself? Share your experiences in the comments below! #Entrepreneurship #Podcast #Leadership #Boundaries #Community #ValueYourself   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   AI-Generated Transcript Lisa: Hi, I'm Lisa.   Brea: I'm Brea   Lisa: And today, oh, this song is on my mind. Do you remember that song? Where it says buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh. Yeah.   Brea: Yes, of course I do. And you did that so well. Do it again.   Lisa: Well, that was me for a lot of years of my coaching, training, speaking business being a bad to the bone, a bad boss to yourself. I am so guilty or was so guilty.   Brea: A bad boss to yourself. Yes. Okay. This is juicy. You know, I love a juicy topic. This is a juicy one.   Lisa: Yeah. Well, let's talk about what brings us into wanting to be entrepreneurs and then how, well, for me, I know I have the stories to tell and the lessons to tell about the things that were turning it into bad boss. So if I start off and say, I didn't have bad bosses in corporate. I had great bosses, great leaders. I had a really good experience. So I didn't have the reference point of saying, I don't want to be this terrible person. And so that's why I'm leaving. I wasn't running from that. I was running toward this dream. Oh, now I've got a Tom Petty song in my head. Running down a dream. OK, no, let's stop. I've got too many songs.   Brea: Chili's, baby, baby, baby back ribs. That's what I have in my head. Now you've got to turn it into bad, bad, bad boss.   Lisa: That's so fun. Anyway, yeah, I was totally running down that dream. It was like freedom. I would see other people doing it and I would think, this is so cool. I could take the work that I'm paying vendors to do. I just saw this vision, like if I could be that vendor, I could have this amazing life doing exactly the work that I love. It will be so inspirational and soul-filling because the work is really cool. I'll have total freedom and flexibility with my time. I can work fewer hours. I think it's going to just be so amazing. So I really set up this dream life vision and then quickly out of fear, now that I have a rear view mirror, I worked myself into not that dream because I was so unreasonable as a boss to myself. So I was a total bad boss to myself. What about you? What attracted you to do your own thing?   Brea: Yeah. A huge part of my story was, I'm not going to say I had bad bosses, but I am going to say There are a lot of people who are elevated into leadership positions because they were really great at their job. at the lower level, you know, for example, maybe they were just a killer salesman. And now all of a sudden, they're a manager of people. And that's not even the same job. And I think we've actually talked about that on the podcast before, and how just bogus that is that we're expecting, you know, great leaders to emerge from people who were showing excellence in something else. And so I have worked for and with people who were not given any training or any support to be a leader and didn't know how to handle me. And I'm a lot. And I think maybe those who are listening with a lot of strong, influencing themes like me, I'm not the cookie cutter, let's do it like it's always been done. Just close your mouth and do the work. I can't work like that. I bring new ideas and question everything. And leaders didn't know what to do with that. And so I really did get into this business, especially strengths to help be a solution, to help leaders learn how to lead the people they have. instead of just trying to put everybody into the same little mold. So a different starting place, but yeah, great conversation. I'm excited to dive in. Okay, nice.   Lisa: And you made me think that our thread is so tied together in that it's like when people get promoted into their incompetence. When I left and went out on my own and didn't know how to be an entrepreneur, I had business acumen. I was promoted into incompetence as far as being able to manage myself and my time and create, run, grow a business. I didn't really get all of it so I had some areas of high incompetence and that's why I was a bad boss to myself.   Brea: Yeah, and maybe this is where we start is, you know, there are very, very few people out there who can do all the things with excellence. We've talked about that a little bit in our BP10 episode, you know, how there are certain talents and certain skills that every business owner needs, and no one person has them all.   Lisa: Yeah, well, let me give a real-life tale of being a bad boss to myself under one category, which would be just unreasonable work hours. And one version of that is I had this business strategy. I worked to work with Fortune 500 talent development teams, leadership development teams. That was all great. Got that. So then, I have clients who have people all over the world, and they want to do sessions and workshops, usually virtual, because that was my specialty, and they would want to break up a session, and we would do them basically on the same day, and here's how it would work. I would have a 9 a.m. session, and that would be with Americas and EMEA, so if you're not from corporate or a place where they do these abbreviations, EMEA is Europe, Middle East, Africa, And then I would do a 9 p.m. session with India, APJ, APJ is Asia Pacific, Japan. So I would be up, prepared, showered, ready to go, sound check, so pretty early days, starting with the 9 a.m. Then I would deliver at 9 p.m., depending on time changes, sometimes it was 10 or 11, or depending on the client. could be a 10 or 11 p.m. start. So I would be finishing up as late as 1 a.m. after having gotten up at 5 a.m. and I would do these repeatedly. It wouldn't just be like an occasional thing. I would do them over and over and that would be these long, long days. And I just thought, I mean, it's the same workshop. We're trying to deliver it on the same day-ish. And I just did it unthinking about the consequence to my body and my sleep and the circadian rhythm and all these things that now later, I realized I really wrecked it, but I didn't know then. I just thought, yeah, I stay up late once in a while. Once a week I do these, big deal. And it was a big deal, but didn't realize I was being such a bad boss to myself with those decisions.   Brea: Yes, totally. It does add up over time, right? It's so funny because for me, it's exactly the opposite. I love a 9 a.m. and a 9 p.m. I often am working late at night. 9 p.m. to midnight is kind of a sweet spot for editing podcasts or emails or some creative things. So I don't mind the unreasonable work hours. But for me, where I fall into the trap is just working all the time, not having boundaries. So one of the things that attracted me to entrepreneurship is this concept of time freedom, you know, being able to just go to a kid's soccer game or a recital or something during the day that I wouldn't be able to if I was in an office 9 to 5 and I had to be there, right? So if I'm working at 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. I have to make sure that I'm taking advantage of the time freedom that I've given myself.   Lisa: It's like the good boss to yourself is taking that time and making them non-work hours. The bad boss to yourself would be go, go, go and just fill the middle with the emails and the mundane and fill it in and then it becomes a, well, more than 12 hour workday. Maybe it became a 16 hour workday, but the difference could be a nap in the middle of the day, the soccer game and all of those things. And you're still spending those same hours awake, but it's what you're doing with them consciously.   Brea: How do you know me so well? You know that I love to nap. I mean, come on, naps are a key part of a long day, you know, is taking a little break, a little siesta. Yes. And to be honest, I don't feel guilty about any of that at all. Unreasonable work hours doesn't resonate with me, but working more hours than ever totally resonates. Whatever your time hangup is, make sure that you're being a good boss to yourself by honoring your own needs, your own talents, and balancing the work with life.   Lisa: Right. Yeah, all of mine are some version of time. Like the next one that I thought of was PTO policy. So if you're an employee somewhere, you have PTO. And when you have PTO, you actually think about booking out vacation time. And I just allowed myself to forget about the concept of PTO. And in the early five years of my business, in the front end, I was so booked out. I would be booked out for nine months. So if anybody wanted to get on my calendar for anything, it would literally be like, well, I have a speech that week, or I have a training that week, I want to be in this city that week, I want to be in another city that week. And if we were going to take a vacation, we'd have to think of it nine months in advance. So that is another area of bad boss to yourself, where on one hand, you think you're being good because I was like, Yeah, I'm booking myself out and I was excited because I could generate enough business to be booked out that far But then the downside was what about my family? What about friends? What about my own breaks? I just didn't have them and one day I was talking to a friend about it Tammy if you're listening shout out she was like Lisa It's so easy. All you have to do is block of one week per quarter. And that's it. Just one week per quarter. Then you give yourself four weeks of time. Worst case, if you don't want the time off or you don't want the vacation, don't take it. But otherwise, take it. And if a client wants to book a speech and it's a really cool opportunity, then just move the week to another week. But if you don't block the time out, you'll never get the time. And it was really cool. I started doing it and it made everything work. Now, I am way on the other side of it now. I take lots of time off. I work three-day work weeks. I have a whole different thing because I've figured out how to be a super cool boss to myself nowadays. But it was terrible. So that was one that I thought, gosh, that would be a really good lesson for someone new who is building momentum to just do that in advance. Even if you don't have any bookings yet and you're new to building a business, just start doing it as a habit. Because what's the worst case of that? Just work during that time if you want to.   Brea: Yeah, I love that. And the other side of that is if it's on the calendar and you've got a trip to Europe planned and it's coming up and you aren't working like that's a little fire under your behind to find some work, get some revenue coming in. It's also interesting, this concept of boundaries, putting a PTO on the calendar, that's a boundary. You're saying, I'm prioritizing this. There's a literal boundary that you're drawing on the calendar to block off the time for that. So if you're listening, think about other boundaries that you need for yourself.   Lisa: I'm curious, how did you know some of the boundaries early on? I don't know how I would know until I made the mistakes. I would do three or four virtual sessions in a day because I was like, oh, this is so efficient. I love being efficient and I only have to do my hair and makeup one time. And then I can take the next day to do more admin stuff. So I would get like adrenaline dump after adrenaline dump. It was not good for my body to do it that way. But I didn't realize until I did it enough to go, Oh, I need some boundaries on how many a day I'll do. And then another one, is I would do about 100 events a year. And if you think about travel events, there's a fly day, there's the event day, and then there's a fly day. So if you do 100 events times three, because it's three days to do an event, that is 300 days. Then you want to add on some vacation days, and then add your 52 weekends in there. Basically, that's every day. So then, when do you do prospect calls? When do you do instructional design? When do you answer emails? Do you just cram it in even more? I did. I was a terrible boss to myself in that way. So I think, like, I'm curious about you and your boundaries. How did you know what your boundaries needed to be before you were ever fully booked?   Brea: I didn't know. I didn't know anything. I didn't even know anything. I mean, I think I've said this on this podcast before. I didn't even know that I wanted to own my own business. I literally just fell into it because I didn't have a job and I just started like, doing what I could to make money. And now here I am nine years later. So that's a bad boss, OK, is not even knowing that you're running a business. Yeah. So I learned as I went and I often learned the hard way, which I think is why I love these episodes on helping other coaches to not make the same mistakes. For me, the boundaries that I've learned I needed were around customization. So a trap that I would fall into and still do, if I'm totally honest, I need to continue to do better, is to not over customize everything. Because I love that. I love it so much. So I learned to set the boundary of charging more for those custom, bespoke, premium experiences, which is helpful. But also, I just have such a big heart for people, and my little individualization will over-customize literally everything if I'm not careful. So setting those boundaries is really important. I think you mentioned earlier working or operating out of fear. That's a general caution when we're looking at how are we a bad boss to ourselves. Oftentimes, being a bad boss comes from being afraid. So you're afraid that the customers won't come, you know, the work won't come. And so you take anything given to you, even if it's something you've never delivered before, you don't know anything about it. And You're like, sure, I can do that. And then you spend way too much time creating something that you only use once and not charging enough for it. So setting boundaries around where I want to spend my time. Not just the time on the calendar saying this is admin time, this is creative time, and this is delivery time, but boundaries around what do I want to offer? And that took time for me to figure out. I don't know that I would know that ahead of time, unless maybe someone else who was in L&D or are something, something adjacent and then became their own boss. Maybe they would have a better idea, but I had no idea.   Lisa: Yeah, I came from that background and I had no idea because I knew how to block out time for instructional design, for a needs assessment. I knew those parts of the work, but then how many minutes I would need to be in QuickBooks, or calling the accountant, or managing a procurement process, or talking to the insurance company. I mean, all of those kind of things that I had an experience before. I did not block time out. And that is how I figured it out eventually. I'm still figuring it out, let's be honest. But I did get a lot closer by time blocking. And I started doing things like, what amount of time a day do I spend on email? OK, about an hour. And sometimes emails create action items. So I've got to leave some space for that. So I started putting, OK, they create about this many action items. So I'm going to put hold customer work. And I'm going to block. a couple hour chunk twice a week, and then I'm going to put one hour a day for email, and then I'm going to put 30 minutes for lunch so I can actually eat. I just tried to look at what the average week had for me that I hadn't really thought of or didn't want to plan for, because planning for design time, that was easy. I would just be like, block one day, and I can get this deck developed. I really just had a good feel for that, whereas these other elements, I didn't have a feel for it. And I didn't want to be in those moments like I wanted to be in a needs assessment or instructional design or making a deck. So I started time blocking. And then I had this massive realization that was whoa, there aren't very many minutes left. If you actually put, you know, if you want to work a regular kind of, say you want to work a nine to five kind of time block, and then you fill all those things in, where, where do you even have time? And then you add in delivery and flying. if you're on the road and that gets really slim and that is where I realized I just had to say no. I was so good at saying yes to things and that's not as fun for me to say no. It still isn't as fun to say no but that is the the magic sauce. And I still struggle with it every day because the more you book and the more you get seen in an industry, the more people ask for things from you. And some of those are really great things. You want to be in a peer relationship. You want to have a media appearance. You want to talk with clients about ideas. You want to do a bunch of things, but you realize you have to say no to a lot or you'll never have time for you and the whole oxygen mask theory comes into play.   Brea: Yep, totally. So the thread, common theme that I'm hearing is this idea of structure. We need structure. Too much structure, maybe, is what I'm hearing from your early days. Or the wrong kind of structure, not knowing how much time to block for certain things. Too much structure might equal no freedom. which is bad boss, right? That's not why we went into business for ourselves. But also the other extreme is no structure. No structure is no freedom as well, because there's wasted time and decision fatigue. So finding that median that works for you. Maybe it's a nine to five workday. Maybe it's a nap in the afternoon and a 9 a.m. and a 9 p.m. But whatever works for you, making sure that there is some kind of structure, some kind of boundary, some kind of sandbox to play in to allow the freedom that you're looking for. It's such a trap to believe that structure constricts or restricts our freedoms. There's so much science that proves when we have at least some boundaries, when we have a sandbox of plan, we can get so much more creative than if we have all the things to do, then we end up doing nothing or we end up just spinning our wheels. going insane.   Lisa: Yeah, constraint can give you the freedom. And it's scary to honor the constraint. But you definitely have the theories that everyone has heard of, like the work expands to the time allowed. So you have simple things like if I give myself three hours to make this deck, will it be any better than the one hour? Well, maybe marginally, but if I said, I'm going to buckle down, I only have one hour to do this, boom, I'm still going to have a good product. And then I get two hours back in my day that I would have spent over maximizing. And then on a bigger picture, if you back into the dreams, when I decided a few years ago to have three-day work weeks, it sounded so impossible. But then I just blocked off Monday and Friday and said, well, what does it have to look like to make it possible? and being able to say things to a client that I was so afraid of. The words, oh, I'm already booked there. Let's look at next week. Those are so easy to say. I don't have to say, oh, I take off Fridays to get a massage. I don't have to say those words. I just have to say, I'm booked already on Friday. Let's look into next week. And it's fine. Everything's fine.   Brea: Yep. And people like to work with winners. So if you are available every minute of every day, what they might see is, wow, like she's not doing anything. She's desperate for work. And they're busy too. They are busy too. This actually just happened yesterday. I got an inquiry from someone that I didn't know. They found me online and went to my website and scheduled a call. So yay, process works, right? Yay, inbound. Yay, inbound. But it wasn't until my next available on my Calendly, which was a few days away. And when her inquiry came in, I happened to be available. And I just texted her and I said, Hey, super excited to meet with you, just wondering if you happen to be free now. And she called me and we talked and it's looking really good. So I think structure is good and it's okay to be flexible in the moment. You know, I gave her that option that said, Hey, if you want to talk now, we can. And she took it and now we're moving forward.   Lisa: And what a cool way, like I just think of that and go, ooh, that could be an example of being a good boss to yourself. And that what if you really had something else in mind for Thursday and you could find cracks in the week. You always talk about the cracks in your day. And then this could be a crack in the week where you're like, ooh, if I filled this one in, I'm going to free myself up to do this other thing on Thursday.   Brea: Totally. And it was it was better for me because my energy was at a high. I had just delivered something really great. I had just had a great coaching call in the morning. So I was like, I was feeling it. I was feeling strengths. I was feeling myself. And that came through in the sales call several times. She said, oh, my gosh, I can just tell how much you love your work. And isn't that what we want? Is that true authenticity? So knowing my own talents, knowing that my energy comes from those wins, I leaned in and I offered to meet with her then because I knew I would be better on the call. She didn't have to say yes, I wasn't forcing her to change the schedule, but she did and that worked out for both of us, you know? So knowing yourself is just really, really important. Yeah. Another thing is also with boundaries and with fear, the trap of charging too little because we're afraid that people won't pay for what we have to offer. Not only does it hurt our profits, but it also leads to so much burnout and maybe even resentment. And that's something that I found really early on. I didn't know what the market would handle as far as pricing went, and I didn't really know what I wanted to value my time for. And so that was something that I had to learn the hard way. But I think if I had put some thought into it, put some research into it, I could have figured that out without years of learning the hard way and struggling with the burnout and the resentment that that brought.   Lisa: Yeah. Oh, that's a really good one because you basically you're being a bad boss to yourself by not thinking of it as a business. If you're thinking of it as you as a freelancer doing hourly rate, you're going to make really different decisions versus how you would price it if you were like, oh, they want to do four pre-event calls, not just one. Oh, they're going to ask me to take my deck and put it into their brand template. oh, they're going to send me through a procurement process that requires 40 hours on the phone with their call center, and they only happen to be available in India time zone, and things that you wouldn't expect because you don't know at the beginning, or maybe you need to hire a team to deliver because the time zones are all over the place, and you have no margin for that if you're building it like an hourly freelancer, not like a business owner. And it's a way that people are often bad bosses to themselves just out of naivete. But like you said, if you have people around you, if you have mentors around you, if you ask the questions, you can really be a good boss to yourself by thinking ahead and surrounding yourself with a community of people who have been there and done that so that you don't walk the same mistakes.   Brea: Yes. Yes, I know you probably want to land the plane. So I'll give my closing thought first. My closing thought is scaling the wrong thing, growing something that you don't enjoy, continuing to offer something that has worked, that has brought in money, but not because you like it or not because you want to continue offering it. Gosh, Doesn't that happen when we're working for someone else? We're given tasks all the time and expectations, and we just kind of have to grumble our way through it. And we do that to ourselves in our own business as well. And you don't have to. You don't have to do that. I talk to so many coaches who ask me, what should I offer? What should my offering be? What should my business model be? What should I? And you are the only one that can answer those questions for yourself. You have to make sure that you're setting things up in a way that you want to go to work every day. You want to sell in casual conversations in the elevator and also informal networking opportunities and in a formal sales call. You have to be excited about what you're doing. Don't keep doing things just because they're bringing in profit. If it's not really lighting you up, then figure out something else. Scale your business another way. You don't have to scale it based on what other people are telling you to do or what's working for other people.   Lisa: Yes, and I'll jump on the theme of scaling and say where I know I went wrong and I was a total bad boss to myself, was not thinking about the scale of labor. And I ate into that with my personal hours as the only solution I really knew how to do at the beginning. And if I had mentors and a community and people who had been there before I went there, I think instead of me just celebrating, Oh, look how much I'm growing. Oh, look how many clients I'm getting, I would have realized, Oh, my gosh, I'm about to step in a big pile of life poo because of how much I'm wearing myself out. So it's actually why, one of the reasons I created Tools for Coaches. So if you're listening, and you've been hearing me talk about the tools and templates inside of Tools for Coaches, there's also a community out there and there's mentorship. And part of the beauty of that group is being able to ask, like, what do you all do to prevent this? Or what do you all do to get in front of that? And that's part of that membership that I run. So leadthroughstrengths.com slash Tools for Coaches, if you want to check that out. It's a great place to catch these problems, like being a bad boss to yourself before you commit them.   Brea: Love it. Yes. And same for me. I mean, having people around me, having community is just essential for my happiness and for my success. So I think that's why I've been really itching to get this podcast community together. I want to talk to you guys about these episodes. If anything is resonating with you, come talk with other podcast listeners. Let's talk about what's working for you, what questions you have, what's not working for you, share that community, and then put it to work. Let's build your business. You know, we had our first meeting this week and it was so awesome. So it's BreaRoper.com/leadthroughstrengths. Can't wait to see you.   Lisa: Boom. No more bad to the bone.   Brea: Now we can get our baby back, baby back, baby back ribs.   Lisa: See y'all next time.   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.  

In today's episode, we dive deep into a topic that many coaches struggle with: finding clients. If prospecting makes you want to run and hide…don't worry. We've got you! Listen in as we share some strategies that have worked for us, so you can make them work for you. Plus, we sprinkle in some creative ideas on how to make yourself visible and approachable in everyday situations. You know, just because we're fun like that. If you're ready to transform your prospecting game, and maybe even have a little fun along the way, this episode is just for you! 🌟 Work With Us! BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.   Takeaways ●      Throw Away the Rule Book 📚 Contrary to what all the marketing gurus out there will tell you, there is no one-size-fits-all approach! Instead, focus on leveraging your unique strengths. Whether it's through storytelling, networking, or email marketing, find what resonates with you and use it to connect with potential clients. Remember, authenticity is key! ●      Know how to answer the question, "What do you do?" When someone asks, they're standing at the front door of your business. If you don't have a compelling answer, they will turn around and leave. Tailor your response to spark their interest, and they'll likely ask to come inside. ●      Referrals are the lifeblood of your business. Move beyond the awkward, "It was nice working with you. If you ever know anyone else who might be interested, please send them my way." Instead, request referrals with confidence, intention, and gratitude. Build intentional relationships to create a network of mutual referrals that benefits everyone involved. ●      Visibility is Vital 👀 If going out to find clients feels intimidating, get them to come to you instead! Find creative ways to make yourself visible and approachable in everyday situations, like bringing a relevant book to a coffee shop or wearing a name tag while working at a co-working space. These small actions can invite conversations and opportunities. ●      Follow Up with Existing Clients: Don't overlook your current and past clients. Regularly check in with them and ask for referrals or feedback, as they are often the best source for new business opportunities.   Take Action ●      Identify and utilize your unique strengths in your prospecting efforts. Focus on what feels authentic to you rather than blindly following conventional methods. Authenticity wins every time! ●      Craft Your One-Liner: Develop a compelling answer to the question, "What do you do?" that resonates with your target audience. Ask Brea to share her simple 3-sentence framework that works every time. ●      Leverage Referral Partners 🤝Make a list of other professionals who serve your target audience in different ways. Invite them to be an intentional referral partner for you (and you for them!). By collaborating with these partners, you can create a network that mutually benefits everyone involved. ●      Utilize Email Marketing: Start or enhance your email marketing strategy to gather and nurture leads. Create valuable content that keeps your audience engaged and positions you as a go-to resource in your field. ●      Engage Current Clients for Referrals and Continuing Business: Regularly ask your existing clients for referrals by directly inquiring, "Who do you know that might benefit from my services?" Use feedback forms to gauge interest in additional services or coaching opportunities. Here are 20 Things to Try, as a Numbered List 1.     Be ready with a clear answer when someone asks, "What do you do?" 2.     Create a network of referral partners in adjacent businesses. 3.     Co-host an event to share audiences with another service provider. 4.     Participate in adjacent groups, like trade associations (your audience), and be of service. 5.     Be a toll booth in a customer's existing flow. This is a way to get inbound leads because you are contributing in spaces where they are hanging out. 6.     Create a nurture sequence in your email system. Keep in touch over the long term, and they will likely hit reply to offer gigs. 7.     Use your strengths to decide which prospecting channel will feel most natural to you. 8.     Bring "the book" to your coffee shop or hangout space (one you wrote, or one that is easy for them to comment on). Leave it on the table and use it as a conversation generator. 9.     Wear a fun name tag to be extra approachable. 10.  Host a podcast and sponsor yourself. 11.  Write about a single topic all over the place – blog, guest author, a book, social – get known for a specific thing so people come to you. 12.  Use email marketing. Unlike social media, where a small % of your followers see your content, with email marketing, you reach 100% of your list with no gatekeepers. 13.  Run ads. Nail your messaging first so that you're not bleeding out cash. 14.  Expand business with an existing customer by building in a Yes/No checkbox on the feedback form to ask if they're interested in following up with coaching. 15.  Expand business with an existing customer by booking a "Keep Momentum" call after your event. Give them DIY ideas, and also offer ongoing services. 16.  Be findable when someone searches for answers to the problem you solve, which means having at least a few pieces of clear content. This could be working on Search Engine Optimization to be found in online searches. It could also be on podcasts or YouTube, which also get used like a search engine. 17.  Pick one primary marketing channel and go all in. 18.  Directly ask for referrals. Using questions like "who else might need work like this on their team?" is a great way to get intros right after a client engagement. 19.  Plug into a community of your target market. Contribute genuinely, and the relationships will naturally create business and referrals. 20.  Use video. Trust is more important than ever. Being visible on video can help people know more quickly that they want your service. 🎧 If you're a coach looking to grow your client base, this episode is packed with actionable insights and creative ideas. Tune in now and let us know your thoughts! #Coaching #ClientAcquisition #Podcast #Networking #ReferralPartners #Visibility #StrengthsBasedApproach Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram AI-Generated Transcript Lisa: I'm Lisa.   Brea: I'm Brea.   Lisa: And today we are talking about, y'all, Brea is in love. Did you ever think we would have a show about Brea being in love? What are you in love with, Brea?   Brea: I love prospecting.   Lisa: They didn't see it coming.   Brea: I know. I was trying to think of something funny that was unexpected, but I wasn't expecting to do that. And then I just was like, I just love it. I love it so much. Helping people find clients, finding my own clients, reaching out and helping people, giving them a solution. Finding people, I just, I love it. I love it so much.   Lisa: You hear her excitement. She's in love with prospecting. How fun is that? So yeah, today we're going to talk about 10 ways to find clients as a coach. Hey, awesome. Let's go. Well, you're enamored. You're in love. So we're going to start with you. Give us a way to find clients as a coach.   Brea: Well, I think the first thing to do is to throw away the rule book. whatever the people have told you that you should be doing, or you have to do this if you're gonna find clients as a coach. No, there is no right way. We know from our strengths work that the only right way is to use your strengths. So do that. If you want to use social media and funnels and aggressive marketing campaigns and all the things that they say, whoever they are, say that you should do that, that's fine. And also use your strengths. So for me, communication, number one, telling the story, right? Sharing testimonials, telling the transformation, not in a salesy way, but just in a like, I love my job kind of way. You know, when you meet someone on the street, when you're sitting in the salon chair, when someone says, Hey, what do you do? Don't give them the wah, wah, wah. This is what I do. Tell them the story, right, if you lead with communication. So, woo, you know, look for opportunities to approach new people or sign up for networking events or figure out ways to use your strengths. to interact and engage with people.   Lisa: Yes. One of mine was pretty similar, so I'll just jump on to kind of piggyback that. And the way that I thought of it was, have an answer that you love to the question, what do you do? Because that question comes up in life so often. So I always think about the person I'm talking to. So if I'm in a room full of software engineers and my answer is, I help burned out software engineers love their work again, like I'm being really specific to that person where they're like, oh, I'm burned out. So whether in the story, I just love your perspective because you're pulling people in like, oh my gosh, I know someone who needs you.   Brea: So that's right. That's right. Yeah, and you're reminding me we have another episode, I don't remember what it's called off the top of my head, but where we talk about that one-liner. And so if that's something that you listeners want to do, go back and listen to that to maybe spark some creativity about how to create that one-liner.   Lisa: Yes, absolutely. We'll find it and put it in the show notes.   Brea: Okay.   Lisa: Yeah. So Brea, if we do, if we start with how we've actually gotten the bulk of our business, let's start the next couple with things that we actually used to get business. I mean, probably all of them are things that we've used, but I want to say like, what has had the biggest impact in getting us business?   Brea: Yeah, so I love this concept of referral partners. I mean, referrals are just, I mean, chef's kiss, you know, for building a business. But I don't know that a lot of people know what a referral partner is or have put some thought into having intentional referral partners. So that could look like a referral program where clients can refer you and maybe they get some kind of reward or maybe they do it out of the kindness of their heart. But when I think of a referral partner, I think of who else serves your customer, your client base, in a different way. Are you intentionally partnering with those people to refer each other? So think, what else does your client need? Find those service providers and link arms. Realtors are great at this. Their job is to sell the house, so their referral partners are the plumber, the electrician, the lawn maintenance, anything that a homeowner might need services for, then all of a sudden you've got this network of people that are referring their clients to each other. And we can do that too as coaches.   Lisa: Yes, so smart. I can see, like, if you do CliftonStrengths for teams in manufacturing and you have a referral partner who does HR for teams in manufacturing, you could be a great referral partner for each other. Absolutely. Yes. I have something similar I would add. It's going to be a separate thing. It's a separate technique, but it is along the lines of referrals. I would call it an expansion referral. And that would be, I've gotten a lot of business over the years where I get in a customer, and then I'm in with Executive A, and then Executive B tells Executive C, and they start spreading you around the organization, sharing what you do. And that can be something that just happens because the impact was big and they took it upon themselves to do it. But you could also do this really programmatically. If they don't have the budget to do the full thing they want to accomplish, I'll say, what other leaders could we involve so that you could team up together and get a year's worth of this instead of one? session, one one-off session. So things like that, where you get in and you grow the opportunity from the inside because you've already proven yourself and you have fans who are willing to share, plus you're already through the procurement system and all of those things that happen. So I would say, I would call that an expansion referral, a little different from an outside referral partner, but both amazing kinds of referrals, especially if you make it a system.   Brea: Yeah, I love that. You know, my missionary background is coming to mind where I had to fundraise all of my income for four years. And in that training, we learned a question that has been so helpful for me as a business owner. And that question is, who do you know that needs whatever it is that you provide, that needs your coaching services. But when you ask a current customer who already loves you, who's already paying you, who is already singing your praises, the question of who do you know is so much different than saying, oh, if you know anybody who could blah, blah, blah. That's not actually helpful, but when you say, who do you know? Then their brain turns on, right? And they're like, oh, maybe this leader. Oh, maybe this person. Oh, so be direct without being aggressive or, you know, like weird about it, but give them an opportunity to actually answer the question instead of just throwing the ball casually in their court and just watching it like drop and bounce. away, you know?   Lisa: Love it. Okay, how else have you got in business? That's amazing.   Brea: So I think asking people who you patronize to patronize you is like a great way to kind of start that referral partner process. And then can you co-host something together where they invite their people, you invite your people and and those relationships start to meld. One way that I've found to be incredibly helpful and lucrative is at a co-working space because a lot of my clients are smaller businesses or entrepreneurs or, you know, people in the local community and they office out of a co-working space and the co-working space already has clients, right? They've got people that are there who need my services. So I can offer the benefit to the coworking space of professional development. Here are a lot of small businesses who don't have a budget for that or just, you know, startups that need and desire professional development, but they don't have the big corporate budget or the corporate vendors, the systems. And so I can just come in and provide that for the coworking space. And the coworking space is providing me with the people. We do a little intro workshop and then Boom, we're off to the races.   Lisa: Okay, amazing. I mean, audience built in. My version of that, I have one that is similar but a different thread. I would call it adjacent groups. So for example, I think of my favorite match of an audience. So over the years when I would lead workshops, The ones that just always felt so aligned and like great fit were marketing teams. And so then, OK, what are the marketing associations? American Marketing Association, there's a national something, National Association for Advertisers. It's ANA, I think. But anyway, different groups like that, where you go to the trade associations, but not in what you deliver. So I didn't say, Go to the CliftonStrengths Association, because I do CliftonStrengths. I moved over to something adjacent. I thought of my audience, and then my audience's group, because that's not going to be filled up with people who do what you do. Just like I mentioned manufacturers earlier, if I went to a manufacturing association, and I delivered something as a CliftonStrengths person, it's going to look really unique, and the concept might be very unique to them. And it's not just flooded with people doing the same thing. So adjacent groups are a really cool place to provide development, just like you're talking about with that audience that is already sitting there, where they wouldn't have gotten that education otherwise, if you delivered a speech or a workshop for that group.   Brea: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And if workshops are not your thing, if you're listening and you're thinking, oh, I'm a coach, you know, I don't want to go out there and do an intro workshop to get people. Try a book club. Partner with a local bookstore or a local library or a local group that's adjacent and do a book club. And when they get to know you and they hear what you have to offer, then that easily can transfer into a coaching engagement.   Lisa: Beautiful. Well, I'll share my favorite thing. And that is I love email marketing, as you know, probably as much as I love prospecting. I love email marketing. I love the automation of it. I love how I can educate and help people. And I can write a thing once and it can serve 100,000 people with that one writing. I think it's so cool. And so once someone is on my email list, I have a couple of years worth of those nurture sequences to keep educating them and keeping them up on whatever topic. So being of service. But what is so cool from a business building standpoint is, if they're of value, and people stay subscribed, then you become part of their daily flow. And I have had dozens, I would guess on the order of about 50 events, where people hit reply on one of those emails way into the sequence. They are 18 months in, they're two months in, and they're like, oh, hey, we're having a summit in three months and we're planning, we need a speaker, can you speak on X date? Those gigs are so great. They know you and love you. They've received content for months or years, and they're literally just saying, I have a gig in this city on this day. Are you available? Let's go. I mean. What can get better than that, where they're literally just like plopping it at your feet?   Brea: Yeah, I think that's so good. You have to be visible. And so your email sequence is making yourself visible on a regular basis, right? Weekly in your case. I don't do email marketing like that. My version of being visible is when I go to a coffee shop, I take my laptop and I'm just going to do some admin work to get my energy from the vibes. I'm going to bring a book. Maybe it's a StrengthsFinder book. Maybe it's, I don't know, it's The Manager or Strengths for Students. I've been working on some offerings for students, high school students and their parents. I'm going to bring the book and I'm going to set it on the table. so that anyone walking by or looking in my direction sees the book and if that connects with them in some way, there's an opening for a conversation and it's making my offerings visible. And then they come to me and they say, oh my gosh, StrengthsFinder. I love that. I did that at my job two companies ago and I really wish that my company that I'm at now would do it. And I'm like, oh, really? Tell me more. Let me help you with that, right? So clever.   Lisa: And they're coming to you. They're approaching you.   Brea: That's right. So make yourself visible and it doesn't have to be like you get a sign and you're standing out on the street corner and you're like, hey, mattress sale today. Come on in. You know, it doesn't have to be crazy.   Lisa: You have that sandwich board. You're swinging that sign around that goes in the twirlies that is like, strength coaching here.   Brea: Right, right. I mean, if that's you, do you. But I think most of us, it could be as simple as just putting a book out for people to react to. I love co-working spaces. I just joined a new place. I've been wearing a name tag. It just says, hi, I'm Brea. Or sometimes I'll say like, please say hi. You know, I, I love people, you know, or something, something that kind of catches people's eye. So again, it's an invitation. And if they want to engage, they can. So just be creative, but be visible.   Lisa: I love the creativity. Okay, let's see. I have one that I think is worth putting in here because it is the way I've gotten the most business over the years. Host a podcast and sponsor yourself. So by the way, you hear me talk about at the end of these episodes, you hear me mention Tools for Coaches, my membership that supports coaches. You hear Brea talk about going to brearoper.com for coaching. We have a podcast. We're sponsoring ourselves because that's who we're talking about, just like I did there. So that's part of the beauty is that you have some awareness of a service that we offer. And the way that I've systemized it to really make it work over the years is every time we do a podcast, we transcribe an episode. I turn it into a blog post. That blog post over the course of 11 years, having that many of them, even though we don't have a high frequency show, It's built really good search engine optimization. So people Google and find me based on the topic and just dropping in your contact form saying, I found you on Google, want to talk to you about an event. And that has been an incredible win. That's what everyone seems to wish for. And it really does happen.   Brea: I love that. I just am so inspired by you, Lisa. Slow and steady wins the race. Consistency, your focus, you just kind of have built such a wealth of resources on your website, and it's working. So that's inspiring to me. Yeah, I think along those lines, you can write, you can host your own blog, or you can be a guest blogger. You can be a featured writer in magazines, newspapers, other publications. It could be on LinkedIn, it could be on social media, but also go out there and be a guest author in a real publication. Again, obviously, target the publications that your people are reading. Use your strengths.   Lisa: And books. I mean, look, in the speaking world, the most classic way to sell to customers is to have a book, be an expert in a topic, and you have a book, which is basically like a business card. It's something tangible that people put in there. hand to know about you and then of course like if you make a dollar or two a book and you sell one to every crowd you can get some momentum from that but books are a classic way of writing and getting customers especially in the speaking world.   Brea: The last thing that I'll say is I think we've already touched on it but I just really want to call it out because it's so important is find your clients in the clients you already have. Don't sleep on your current or your past clients. The people who you've already sold to are most likely to buy from you again. So make sure you're always, always reaching out.   Lisa: Yeah, I want to add on that two specific ways. Because I think what you just said is so important. So one way of doing that is, let's say you're doing a workshop or a coaching program, and you have feedback forms at the end. You can literally build in a yes-no checkbox kind of question at the end to ask them if they're interested in exploring one-on-one coaching on the topic that you just did. So, for example, let's say the company provided the budget for the kickoff. I could go back as the coach and say, 85% of people check they'd really be interested in this. Would it be of interest for you to explore how we can make this happen for your team? And also, if there's someone who's interested in one-on-one coaching and they might want to pay for themselves, it might be something they want to do individually as well. Feedback forums can be a really good place to introduce something that you have, a solution to their problem, something of interest to go further, and they just don't know ways to go further if you don't tell them. So that is a way to open the conversation.   Brea: That has worked for me so many times. I actually do cards at the event, and I put them in a little bag or a box, and I draw for a little prize, because you don't want to force people, but you want to encourage people to fill it out. But I also put on those checkboxes like, are you interested in one-on-one coaching? Are you interested in bringing me to your school, to your church, to your, you know, fill in different places that you might go that are even outside of the workplace? Because people a hundred percent are not thinking that you might do that if they're experiencing you in their workplace, right? They're not thinking outside of that at all. So if that is something you offer, put that on the card as well. And then also have a place for them to put their testimonial. Just write something that they really loved about the day, and then boom, you've got a testimonial. And if you really, really want to just milk it for all it's worth, you can ask them if they have a referral. You know, so those those feedback forms or those, you know, those cards can really, really pack a lot of value.   Lisa: Packing in the value. Okay, let's see value. Another technique is when you're in the process, let's say you have a workshop or a speech planned, you have an event in the works, You set up with the person who's sponsoring it for the company, you set up this extra call while you're in process, and it's a debrief call. You set it up in advance. And in the debrief call, you chat about what's next. And in the what's next conversation, You might be just saying, you know, like, congratulations, you've graduated type of thing. And here are some things you can think about going forward. And I have these things available to help you if you want to go deeper, you want to go further and ask people if they're interested in carrying it forward. And if they say no, I don't have the budget or no, not right now. But I would love to think about that for next year. Then you have the follow up for next year. But a lot of times they're like, yeah, I didn't know there was a next. I didn't know there was another step in this progression. And you already have the call set up. So it's not awkward. You're debriefing and you're chatting about what's next, how to carry it forward.   Brea: Yes, how to really maximize their investment, right? How to set them up for success, continued success. Yes, that is, I'm just going to repeat what you said because it's so important, setting up the call ahead of time so that they're expecting it. Set up the workshop, set up the debrief all in the same call. It just flows so much better and feels better for both parties.   Lisa: Yeah. Love it. It's part of the process. It's just part of the system. And it is a conversation that sounds natural and is natural. You don't want your thing to come to a conclusion and be like, okay, bye, abrupt, like just cut off. And it doesn't mean that somebody always has the budget or inclination to keep going, but they usually do. They want to maximize their investment. They want to keep things happening. And if they don't have the money to do that right now, they might have the money in six months if they're looking for a corporate budget or they have to get in the cycle, it might be next year. But those are those long tail things that just keep the pipeline full over time so that you don't look up and say, oops, I don't have any bookings now. What do I do? I'm starting from scratch again. No, if you're always doing this with every customer and you hit, let's say only 25% of those turn into business, that's a lot after you add them up over the course of years.   Brea: Yep, yep.   Lisa: I'll give my closing thought. Closing item, I should say, because I want to do one more. We're always talking about strengths. You and I both love CliftonStrengths. And I think prospecting is tough for a lot of people. And instead of having Brea's reaction that is like, I love it." Instead, people are like, I didn't like the thought of it. Oh my gosh, I wish they would just magically appear in my inbox. This is a great opportunity to say, pick a primary marketing channel. and pick something that aligns with your strengths. Like if you're a speaker and a workshop leader, and you love being on stages, then maybe webinars and speeches are the kinds of things you should think about as your primary lead gen. If you like the one-on-one interaction and that is what you need and want and sounds more meaningful to you, maybe you're gonna reach out to every person who's in your professional network from way back in the day and you just like log them up in a spreadsheet and you do a couple a day where you reach out and you say, hey, I'm doing this new thing. This is what I do. If you know somebody who needs X, I hope you'll send them to me and just get the conversations going in a way that aligns with you and your strengths. Because if you don't, you're going to wear yourself out, burn yourself out, and you're going to hate prospecting. One of the reasons I think Brea likes it so much is like she's giving these creative ideas like wearing a name tag that makes it approachable. So people are just like, oh my gosh, I want to talk to you. Well, she leads through communication. She wants to get people talking to her and she thought of creative ways to get people talking to her. How perfect is that?   Brea: Yep. I mean, that's why I love it. Communication Woo Activator, top three. If there's a strength zone, this is it for me. I love it. I love it.   Lisa: Amazing. I would come talk to you. I would come talk to you with that book on the table at the coffee shop. I would come talk to you with the name tag. Yeah. There are all kinds of ways to be creative to allow approachability. I mean, of course, a smile always helps make you be approachable, but there are a lot of other tools you can use that naturally draw people in to start talking to you.   Brea: Totally. Yes. Use your strengths, baby. Come on. Come on. Use your strengths. Lead with your strengths.   Lisa: And prospecting, dare we say, might actually be fun.   Brea: Yes. It is. It is. I know, we already have gone so over time. So here's my closing thought. My closing thought is if you are interested in the idea of using your strengths to prospect, come to my website, no surprise there, brearoper.com. But this time I actually have a download for you. Send me your top five and I'll send you some ways to prospect based on your strengths.   Lisa: Oh, that sounds really cool. I want that. I'm headed there now. And then for mine, Tools for Coaches. It's our group. And if you are listening to some of these and you're on the, like, in the Lisa land where you're like, Oh, yeah, she's talking about long tail over time. She's talking about evergreen email, she's talking about building systems that a little bit at a time have a compounding effect. If that kind of stuff resonates with you, those are the kind of systems and tools and templates I provide in the Tools for Coaches membership. Right now, the price is only $100 a month. So come on over and join us. Leadthroughstrengths.com slash Tools for Coaches.   Brea: Sounds good to me.   Lisa: All right. Well, hey, Brea, we got to go. We need to go build some more business and start thinking about prospecting.   Brea: Oh, you're right. Yeah. OK, guys. Catch you on the flip side.   Lisa: Bye for now.   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.  

In this episode, Lisa and Brea explore the phenomenon of low ticket offers and how they can be a game-changer for your business. While high ticket items often steal the spotlight, we believe that low ticket offers have their own unique magic that can help you build relationships and grow your business. Plus, we have a special invitation for you! Make sure to listen to the end for an exciting new opportunity to connect with other listeners, ask questions, and get support as you implement what you learn. Let's unlock the potential of low ticket offers together! Work With Us to Decide on Your Low Ticket Offer BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness If you need a Strengths Hype Girl for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo To work with Lisa, check out her resources for independent coaches, trainers, and speakers. Get business tools and strategy support with her Tools for Coaches membership.   Takeaways on Using Low Ticket Offers In an Independent Coaching Practice   The power of the no-brainer factor. Low ticket is a strategy for creating offers that your audience can't resist, making it easy for them to say "yes!" ●      Transform Browsers into Buyers: By offering low ticket items, you can convert freebie seekers into paying customers. This shift not only establishes a business relationship but also increases the likelihood of repeat purchases in the future. ●      Creative low ticket ideas: Steal some of Lisa & Brea's favorite low ticket offerings that you can implement in your coaching practice. ●      Leverage Existing Content: Coaches can create low ticket offers from existing materials, such as recorded webinars, activity guides, or coaching templates. This allows you to monetize content you've already developed, making it easier to generate income. ●      Build Trust and Value: Low ticket offers can help establish trust with your audience. When clients see the value in your lower-priced products, they are more likely to invest in higher-ticket items down the line, creating a sustainable business model.   Take Action to Build a Low Ticket Offer Strategy ●      Define Your Low Ticket Offer: Determine what your low ticket offer will be. Remember to make it a "no-brainer" for potential customers. ●      Repackage an Existing Asset: Look through your existing materials (like recorded webinars, handouts, or coaching questions) and package them into a low ticket offer. Aim to create something that provides value and can be easily sold, such as a workbook or an activity guide. ●      Ask For the Sale: After you create a clear offer, it's time to communicate it to your audience. Remember, people who have bought from you before are more likely to buy again. ●      Automate Your Sales: Consider exploring ways to automate the sales of your low ticket offers, such as through email marketing or online sales platforms, to generate income while you focus on other aspects of your business. 🎧 Whether you're just starting out or looking to expand your existing offerings, this episode is packed with actionable insights that you can implement right away. Let's unlock the potential of low ticket offers together!   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   AI-Generated Transcript Lisa: I'm Lisa.   Brea: I'm Brea.   Lisa: And today we're talking about a wallet phenomenon. It is all about low ticket offers and how they can help your coaching practice.   Brea: Ooh, I love a low ticket offer. Come on.   Lisa: Yes. Come on.   Brea: I'm here for this. Yeah. All this talk. I hear so many people like, oh, here's how you have the highest ticket.   Lisa: Most high end product. That's all cool. If you can sell $100,000 product. Cool. I love you for it. It is amazing. I have sold six figure product. things as well, or services rather, but low ticket is its own phenomenon. It has its own magic. I personally love having low ticket in the portfolio of a coaching business.   Brea: Amen. Yes. I mean, that's how I launched my business was a hundred people, a hundred dollars, a hundred people in 60 days that I was able to coach. And that was the foundation for an eight plus year business, you know, so.   Lisa: Yeah. OK, so let's just do dollar definitions and then we can do a little bit of a greater definition. But if you say low ticket, what is a dollar amount of a we're talking U.S. dollars if you want to do a conversion from another currency. But what is approximately a low ticket offer in your world?   Brea: In my mind, I think $100 or less is a no-brainer. When I think of low ticket, I think, what is something that you could put out there and almost every single person, nine out of 10 people, could say yes without having to think about it, without having to ask for permission from someone, without having to get special funds. Just $100, sure, I'll try it.   Lisa: I would say something very similar but in my mind it's all about the no-brainer factor like I like to get in a $25 or under zone because I want it to be true no-brainer like literally they just go oh I will, yeah, sign me up. I'm not even going to think about it.   Brea: I would be an idiot if I didn't say yes.   Lisa: Yes, yes. So personally, I like the person, not the value of the offer, because I do think it is cool in a low ticket offer. If you could say, here's a Lamborghini product, but you're going to pay a Camaro price. If they can get that vibe on the value difference, then of course, they're going to be like, oh yeah, I'll put my $100 in. But that idea of offering something that has way higher value is super cool. But I like that. Yeah, that very low ticket is for me and the strategy that I have behind low ticket. I like it to be very low.   Brea: Yeah. And you know, this, gosh, this conversation could go so many different ways. Like, you know, a $9.99 offer, a $10 offer could be an upsell, right? If they're buying something online and then it's like, oh, here's another $10 thing. Do you want to just add that on to the course you bought or, you know, the coaching package or whatever? That's one kind of low-ticket offer where it's coming at the end of the purchase. I think when I think of low-ticket offers, most often I think of something that's coming at the very beginning of that customer journey to bring them into your sphere and start working with them in a small way. Kind of like you dip your toe in the pool before you jump in just to get acquainted. That's not so much of a shock. That's, I think, a great use of low ticket offers as well.   Lisa: I am absolutely with you. I think the biggest magic you can get out of it is on the front end. So I have two favorite things. One, I have, as an example that is concrete, I have $10 activity guides someone can download and they don't have to be a trainer type. They don't have to have any special training. and it allows them to run a mini team building kind of conversation with their team. So those conversation guides slash activity guides, 10 bucks. I mean, it's one of those things like I love that for those who can't afford the bigger service right now. But you know, they'll stay in touch with you. And later, they might become your deeper clients in that way. But one of my favorite ways is totally a different strategy. It is when someone signs up for your list. It's like, Hey, you just downloaded this thing, this, this freebie on conflict. If you click here, you can also grab for $10 this more robust version where I can walk you through being able to lead a conversation like this with your team. I think that is such a cool way and I have so many reasons for it because it's easy to spend the money. You're converting a prospective customer into a legitimate customer. Now they're not just lurking around. Now they're not just looking at freebies. They are now a customer and people who have already purchased from you are so much more likely to stay in touch with you and purchase again. And I think probably the more important thing, you're establishing a business relationship with this person. And I hear people all the time say, well, I have all these people and they're just around for the free content. I have the tire kickers, I have the freebie seekers, but I don't have people who transact. Well, I think that if you put out so much free content everywhere all the time, it's great. And that is a good thing for being able to have brand awareness and establish relationships. But think of it, it's kind of like they view you like a charity. And you have a business and you have to make offers to not go out of business.   Brea: That's right.   Lisa: So this changes the relationship. So some things are free content, some things are for sale, and it normalizes a relationship that you have offers and you have a business, not that you are only a charity where they come to get only free. And I think that dynamic in the relationship, and listen, we're talking about the shift happening over $10, but it totally changes the mentality in the relationship, and I think in such a good way.   Brea: A huge way. You know, this is so key. As you're sharing, I was just thinking about all of the conversations that I've had. with other coaches or other business owners who say the exact same thing. I'm putting out all this content, I'm showing up on socials and no one is buying. And so I just ask, well, have you asked them? You know, have you asked them to buy? And they're like, wait, what do you mean? And I'm like, have you put out an offer? Have you actually said like, here's something and this is what it costs, you know, or are you only doing the free stuff to try to get them into your funnel? There's all this noise out there about getting people into your funnel and the purpose of the funnel is to get them to buy. It's not the end, it's the beginning. It's surprising to me how many people forget to ask for business and to your earlier point, to ask for repeat business. Right? People who have already purchased for you are the most likely prospects for future sales. So ask, ask, ask, ask. You have to, you have to ask. When I think of transforming browsers to buyers, the difference in my mind is the browsing, the free content, you know, the things you want to put out there that you might not be charging for. That's the why. Why should you do business with me? Why is it important? And what that sounds like to the customer is what is the problem that you're facing, right? The free stuff should connect with them in a way that says, ooh, this is my person, Lisa. Like she gets it. She gets me, she gets my problems, she gets the situation I'm in, however you want to say it. I understand why I should do business with her and that she can help me. She's the person. And then you charge for the how. you're not going to tell them how to fix their problem or you're not going to give them the solution for free. You're going to charge for that. So if your freebie is attracting them into your funnel, then what you're offering them in even a low ticket way is just maybe here's the first step to the solution and then they can pay more for a bigger offer that offers them more later.   Lisa: Yes, yes, yes. I actually attended one recently and I thought it was a clever idea. I did a boot camp that I paid $25 for and the boot camp, this was extremely inexpensive for what it was. And so as you might imagine, now that I've said that, this boot camp is the start of his funnel. And so you're in the boot camp, and then you're getting upsold into a more expensive product set. And it was great. It's totally fine with me. I only paid 25 bucks. It made it a no brainer for the bootcamp. And truth be told, I already had plans for that week that did not include working. And so I skipped every day except the first day and I'm planning to go back to replays and whether I do or not, I don't know, but I want to. That is another thing about like, it's so low ticket that if I lost $25 over it, I'm not going to lose any sleep. But I also didn't want to lose the opportunity to get this content for only $25. So it was more important for me to take the chance to buy it. And then I'm supposed to watch the replays within a year or they disappear. A year is plenty of time. So, I'm totally happy and if a year goes by and I didn't do it, then I still thought that was a risk worth it because it was such a no-brainer dollar amount.   Brea: I mean, we are in the age where most people would agree with you. I've spent money on things that I haven't used because it's like, oh, it's such a great offer. So, yeah, I get that. I think low-ticket offers are also an opportunity to to build trust with people. When we first started talking, it kind of triggered something inside of me of like, sometimes there is such a thing as too low of a price in my mind. If you're selling a Lamborghini for a Camaro price, You definitely don't want to sell a Lamborghini for, I don't know, whatever is less than the Camaro price. Because then people, they kind of lose a little bit of trust. They're like, wait, this sounds too good to be true. So you don't want to sell something that's $2,500 for $25, right? So there is, there is something I think to be said about low ticket might be under $100, it might also just be like, look, if you've got a $10,000 coaching program, maybe the low-ticket version or the low-ticket offer for that is $1,000, not $100, but $1,000.   Lisa: I'm with you there on value. So let's talk about, as the coach who's building a practice, many coaches have these portfolio businesses. You lead workshops, you do one-on-one coaching, you have group programs, you have all kinds of things. This can introduce the variety of topics, like low ticket can mean, Oh, look, I've delivered these 10 other workshops, but people tend to know me for this other thing. So you could have these low ticket offers in those areas that people don't yet know you for and you want to start to get them exposed to you in that new way. And it's totally low risk for them to do it. Think about things like You did a webinar and you recorded it on Zoom. Now you have a product you could go sell as a low-ticket offer. You have a really cool handout or workbook or something that you use in a framework. Like, let's say you have a workshop that you offer on delivering feedback, and then you have this really cool model for delivering feedback, and you have a handout and a guide on it. And it's sitting in your Dropbox folder and you could just package it up and have a low ticket thing. Like go dig around your files for two or three hours. I bet you could come up with 40 things that you could sell for $10.   Brea: I believe it. I believe it. I've done that. I do that, you know. I have to be intentional about that because I'll just create and create and create and it'll sit and sit and sit and it won't even be sold the first time, you know, because I learn as I do, right? So there's so much stuff that's sitting there just waiting to go out and I love it when coaches come to me and they say, you know, hey, what have you done for I don't know, someone came to me a couple weeks ago and she said she was looking for name cards that she could put into like lanyards for presentation and I was like, oh yeah, I have a template and I sold it to her and it saved her time. It was a win-win for both of us. I was able to customize it for her with her branding. It was a low ticket offer, you know, and it helped her and it helped me. So I think there's people have tons of stuff like that.   Lisa: Yes. And if you know that you're going to create things like this, you could do it with the thought in mind like, hey, I'm going to make this so it could be white labeled for later in your case. Or if it's an end product like a handout that you want to sell, you could just be thinking, oh, if I wanted to sell this as a standalone, what I need to add to my process right now. literally within 30 minutes, you could have your first one done. And then after that, each one might take five minutes.   Brea: Yes. It's always the first one, which is often why people don't do it. Right. Whether it's this or anything is just like, Oh, I have to go buy this software. I have to, you know, go put this thing together, you know, this web page or whatever. I have to add this to my, my Squarespace website. But once it's there, Boom. That's it. I love it. The other thing about low ticket offers, all this noise that's out there that's like, oh, you have to sell all the high ticket offers and you have to make a lot of money every time you sell. McDonald's does not sell high ticket offers. And they, you know what I mean? You can sell cheeseburgers for 99 cents or I don't know whatever it is now, but for very low ticket and be the number one hamburger chain, you know, I'm just making up statistics, but be something that everyone recognizes, right? I mean, McDonald's is, is huge. because they sell cheeseburgers, because they sell fries. So you can get rich on low ticket offers. I guess that's what I'm saying. You don't have to sell high ticket if you don't want to at all. It doesn't have to be- It's not the only way. Yeah, it doesn't have to just be like, oh, you should add a low ticket offer to be supportive. That could be the main meal.   Lisa: It could, it could. And I think that's an interesting model conversation because If it's a low ticket and someone comes back again and again and again, that relationship, it's easy to keep the relationship going. One thing that's difficult about high ticket, I know on this podcast I've told the story about having the $29,000 solution and then challenging myself to add a zero and I sold the $279,000 package and I thought I was so cool. But there's so many, I mean, okay, I'm doing a little high five to myself here for that. Also, how many of those have I sold? Right, right. Certainly not very many so If you want to go whale the rare, you know the rare Yeah, yeah, and some people have a really good time they chase those and they do all RFP business because they're out there doing those requests for proposals and they're looking for those massive multi-million dollar contracts and And that is totally a legit business model. And just as legit business model is selling $25 at a time, a bunch of times to someone who just loves swimming in your ocean. And over time, it'll be like, oh, they bought this activity guide. And then a week later, they bought this one. And then two months later, they bought this other one. And then, oh, look, they started coming to every webinar I deliver. And then, oh, look, they became a workshop customer. It's so fun.   Brea: It's very rare that you get someone to the altar on the first date, right? You know, it's very rare that you're going to just sell your high ticket item to someone out of the blue. And you can either chase them personally with phone calls, with meetings, with emails, however you do it, or you can sell them things. You know, I mean, it's amazing.   Lisa: Yeah. Yes. I like this metaphor. Like we're not trying to get married and do the $100,000 gig deal. We are on a coffee date.   Brea: Yep, that's right. And just getting to know me. And I mean, because like you said, a lot of these low ticket offers can be automated. That happens while you sleep. You're not even doing anything. It's easy. And you're putting yourself out there and keeping your business top of mind with your future customers or with past customers. And that's what's motivating them to buy in the future.   Lisa: Yes. Okay. I'm doing this off the cuff, so we'll see what we can come up with. Let's see if we can come up with a back and forth, like five different things that a person who's a coach, especially the portfolio business kind of coach who does workshops and coaching, what kind of thing could they sell for 10 bucks? Or let's just say low ticket.   Brea: Go. So something that a lot of people don't know about is private podcasts or even just audio. That's something that I love to offer as a low ticket item.   Lisa: Good one. I know you like to talk about Hello Audio as one of those.   Brea: Hello Audio, that's right. Shout out to Nora if you're listening.   Lisa: Okay, that's good. Okay, I'm going to say go back through Zoom recordings and see what you've delivered that you could sell the recording that already exists. If you just do a little trimmy trim and then you could sell that.   Brea: Boom. Love it. Love it. How about audio coaching? I mean, you're picking up on my communication. Number one, I love audio. But like pre-recorded coaching questions, reflection questions, mantras, you know, whatever you want to package it up as so people can hear your voice, experience your coaching questions every day without paying the big ticket price for one-on-one coaching.   Lisa: Oh, I'll tell you one. I hear everyone in the audience, somebody put this out before I do, because I've been thinking of it for years and have not executed yet. It's just basically a workbook of coaching questions, and they're tailored to whatever thing you want to guide them through. And you give them something $100 or less, and they take themselves on their own, their own personal retreat, and you just write up prompts, and you package it up in a beautiful workbook that they can print out and take with them.   Brea: Well, shoot, Lisa, I've got a few of those in my vault. I should just pull them out and sell them. That's a good reminder. Yeah, tomorrow. That's funny. I actually just made another one for a one-on-one client.   Lisa: Well, how many of those do we have as coaches? We do a coaching session, and we're like, oh, they're focused. Like, pick a thing. Oh, this person's really focused on their goals for the year. This person's really focused on weight loss. Like, pick the thing. And then you know you have 20 questions you could support. And if you did a one-on-one coaching, you might even send them follow-ups that you drip out, things like that. Those are all right there under our fingertips, right at the tip of our tongues. It would be so easy to create those from scratch. And we just don't. And it would be so easy to do it and sell it.   Brea: Yep. Yep. And I mean, I have to say it just because it's probably one of the most common things. It's common because it works is an ebook or a guide, 10 steps to something or 10 easy ways to, you know, just a, a real easy PDF download. People love that. They love that stuff, but go for like seven things or 10 things. There's a lot of psychology behind that, but those are numbers that people like.   Lisa: Mm-hmm. And then your deep dive extra private podcast that explains each of them and what to do to really take action Like you could just build from one thing to the next and take your lead magnets and build on them. That's right Okay, I want to build on my activity guides I think that idea of setting up one page guides that someone else can facilitate, it is so powerful. How cool to have, like, I just think about when I was a manager early on, like a frontline manager, and I didn't have a team building budget to go access, I would have spent $10 of my own money. And that is such an easy one to create and so powerful for what you're providing them. with. I think it's a really nice one for those of you who have a workshop business or a content business. Totally.   Brea: Yeah, and for those of you that are listening, you can probably hear the difference in Lisa's brain and my brain. I don't often think about the auto magic or the repeatable, but I love being live. I love being connected even in the low ticket offers. Um, so don't limit yourself to something that they have to download or something that works while you sleep. You can make low ticket offers that are inclusive of your time, you know? Yes. Yeah. Yes.   Lisa: Yeah, you're right. That is not my first go-to.   Brea: I mean, I've done so many webinars over the years that are $100 a seat or $97 is usually the price that I do because of psychology. But, you know, $97 a seat, that's a low ticket price. But if I sell several seats to the same webinar in that hour, then it's worth it for me.   Lisa: Yes. Yep. And now you have a customer, you have a different relationship with that person, and they're going to buy from you in the future, and you've established that relationship at a deeper level. Yes, yes. Because I'm going to come away from that $97 being like, I want more brand.   Brea: I want more, yes. And here's the thing. I find a lot of value in saying, look, spend $97, come to this webinar. It's not going to be recorded. There's value in that. There's attraction in that as well. And it gives a different message, you know? So yeah, just another way to look at it.   Lisa: And you know, I think you're bringing up a different angle on the money, but also you're bringing up a different psychology in terms of putting yourself out there. So if I go to your $97 webinar and I know that it's going to be recorded and resold as a participant, I'm going to be a little bit guarded about what I say because I know any person in the world could buy this and see exactly what I said. And if you say it's not going to be recorded, I'm going to show up in a different way. That's me personally. I don't know if everybody is like that, but I would show up differently if I knew it wasn't going to be recorded. And then, of course, you have the scarcity like, well, you know, buy it here because it's not just something you can download later for free.   Brea: That's right. And you have to sell them something else if they want to keep engaging with you because they don't have a recording from that to go back to and revisit. Right. So they're more engaged. They're more invested because they've shown up in a more vulnerable way, most likely. And they're primed and they're ready to purchase more to keep going down that journey.   Lisa: Yeah. Okay. This was a fun exploration of low ticket. I think for a lot of people, this is kind of a new phrase, even thinking low ticket, high ticket, what kind of ticket? They just think, here's what I do. How much should I charge for that? That's a whole question, a whole different show. What should I charge for that? But this idea of having low ticket in your stable of offerings is a valuable conversation to have and a valuable thought to make sure you run through. Brea, did you have a low ticket thing you wanted to share with the audience?   Brea: Oh my gosh, you know what? I think about all the people who are listening and I hope that you listen and you're like, wow, this is really exciting. I want to do a low ticket offer in my business or I want to add a group coaching program to my business or I want to take whatever the topic of this episode is and I want to do that in my business. And then life happens and you don't take action. If that's you, here's my invitation to you. Let's do a virtual little meetup on the off weeks. We release an episode every other week. So on the weeks that an episode doesn't release, we're going to meet up all the listeners who want to come and discuss whatever the topic of this episode is. I'll be there to answer questions and let's do it. Let's get the work done. Let, let me create a space for you to come together with other listeners of the podcast and actually get this stuff done. So if that sounds good to you, if you want to spend some time connecting with other listeners and connecting with me, go to my website, brearoper.com and come join us.   Lisa: Love it. Love it. Well, I'm not going to say any call to action this time because I'm just going to leave that at Brea's so that you can go hang with Brea.   Brea: Oh, well, thank you. I just, I really want to know who you guys are. I believe you're out there, but yeah, I would love to, love to connect with you. So just come on, you know, and let's get, let's get some work done. Let me activate you and, and let's connect with each other.   Lisa: Yes. Is there a thing like Strengths Twins Activate? Where did that come from?   Brea: Oh, I don't know. I mean, Richard Starey keeps a database of strengths for people to match them to twins.   Lisa: Yeah, it's not the Strengths. What is that? StrengthsTwins.com. That's really cool, but it's not what I'm thinking of. There's something that's like Power Twins Activate or something that I don't know because I'm so missing non-pop culture.   Brea: That's so funny.   Lisa: I keep thinking of Inspector Gadget, but that's not it.   Brea: I don't even know either.   Lisa: People tell us. Look how lost we are. We need you.   Brea: You need to come to the meetup to let us know. Cool. All right. Well, this was fun. I feel like hopefully there's a lot of value there for people. But don't just let it sit. Go and do something with it. Do it on your own or come do it with me and do it with other listeners. Let's do it.   Lisa: One thing, one little thing, because after you do the first one, the rest will seem easy. Talk to you later.   Brea: Bye, guys.   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.  

Lumpy cash flow. Unpredictable income. Feast or famine.   If you own your own coaching business, you've probably ridden the revenue rollercoaster a time or two. Scary for some, and exciting for others. Either way, this episode is for you! Join us as we explore strategies to smooth out the lumps and create stability in your cash flow, OR learn how to lean into the dips and curves so you can, dare we say, enjoy the bumpy ride! 🌟   Work With Us! BREA Roper Communication | Woo | Activator | Futuristic | Connectedness If you need a Strengths Hype Girl, for yourself or your team, connect with Brea at brearoper.com. She's ready to deliver an inspirational keynote, empowering training, or transformational workshop. If you're looking for an expert guide to support your internal Strengths efforts, reach out today! LISA Cummings Strategic | Maximizer | Positivity | Individualization | Woo   To work with Lisa, check out team workshops and retreats at the Lead Through Strengths site. For 1:1 strengths or life coaching, check out the Get Coached link. For independent coaches, trainers, and speakers, get business tools support with our Tools for Coaches membership.   Takeaways ●      Embrace the Lumps: It's completely normal to experience fluctuations in your income. These ups and downs are part of the entrepreneurial journey, and don't reflect your worth as a business owner. Instead of feeling like something is wrong, let's recognize this is a natural part of running a business. By accepting the lumps, we can better prepare for them, and even leverage them to our advantage. ●      Create Predictable Revenue Streams: Finding ways to smooth out the revenue can help alleviate the stress of unpredictable cash flow. Consider strategies like offering retainers, group coaching, or digital products to establish a more stable revenue base. This can help smooth out the highs and lows of your cash flow. ●      Nurture Relationships: Stay in touch with past clients, even if you're not actively selling to them. Simple gestures like sending a handwritten note or a small gift can keep you top of mind for future opportunities. ●      Align with Your Strengths: Build your business around what you enjoy and excel at. When your offerings align with your passions, it becomes easier to sell and maintain enthusiasm for your work.   Take Action ●      Identify Revenue Patterns: Look for seasonal trends in your business. Recognize the months or periods that tend to be busier or slower, and plan your strategies accordingly. ●      Create Consistent Income Streams: Explore options for establishing a steady base of income, such as offering retainer agreements, creating group coaching programs, or developing digital products that can be sold repeatedly. ●      Nurture Past Client Relationships: Implement a system to stay in touch with past clients, whether through email marketing, or more personal outreach. This can help keep you top of mind for future opportunities. ●      Leverage Your Strengths: Align your business strategies with your personal strengths and preferences. Focus on what energizes you to make selling easier and more enjoyable. ●      Prepare for Lumpy Revenue: If you're considering transitioning from a corporate job to full-time entrepreneurship, assess your appetite for lumpy revenue. Create a financial plan that includes a savings runway or a solid customer base to mitigate the stress of unpredictable income. 🎧 If you're navigating the challenges of lumpy revenue or just looking for some inspiration, I encourage you to listen to this episode! Let's embrace the journey together and find ways to smooth out those lumps. #Entrepreneurship #BusinessGrowth #Podcast #LumpyRevenue #Networking #Coaching #SmallBusiness   Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   AI-Generated Transcript Lisa: I'm Lisa.   Brea: I'm Brea.   Lisa: And today we're talking about my humps, my hump, my hump, my hump, my lovely income lumps. Check it out. Priya, do you know what I'm referencing there?   Brea: I do. Is it Black Eyed Peas or is it just a Fergie thing or am I totally off?   Lisa: It's one of the two. I mean, it is Fergie's voice, whether it was Black Eyed Peas or Fergie solo, I'm not sure. You nailed it. If it's music, you know I've got a little bit of it. If you talk movies, forget it. I've got songs floating in my head all day, every day. So there you go. Yes.   Brea: So our lovely revenue lumps.   Lisa: Revenue lumps. We're talking about lumpy revenue, lumpy income, lumpy cash flow, lumpy demand. Some people even call these lumpy businesses. We're talking about these solo practices that many of us have, or small practices that are coaching, training, workshops, and they don't have predictable, steady, stable income, and it is the bane of the existence of many coaches. It freaks people out. They talk feast or famine. They don't know if it's normal. And they also want strategies for it. So, yeah, let's talk. I know you're going to want to define what we're talking about, Brea. So take us down the definition trail and then let's jump in.   Brea: I mean, honestly, you did such a great job. You used feast or famine. I think that's a great, like, that clues us into what we're talking about. It's unpredictable. You know, this is unpredictable cash flow. Maybe another term would be seasonal. This is often seasonal business. And I think This is something that we can all relate to because a lot of the work that we do as entrepreneurs, as consultants, as you know, whatever it is that you're doing, a lot of it is project-based, right? So obviously that's not a consistent cash flow.   There's a beginning and an end to that. And because we're selling into other markets that have slower sales cycles. In a previous episode, we talked about selling to corporate. That's maybe a longer, slower sales cycle than some other cycles. But there are cycles, there are seasons, there are longer lead times and shorter lead times.   There's such a reliance on other people, on referrals, on things that are outside of our control that lead to this kind of lumpy, bumpy life. So today I would love to talk about what are the lumps and bumps that we're experiencing because, first of all, I don't think we talk about it enough. People just feel like there's something wrong with them, you know, if they're not perfectly consistent and that's not true. So let's just call it what it is and say it's actually normal to experience this rollercoaster of revenue.   Lisa: Oh, rollercoaster revenue, there's another good one.   Brea: Yeah, and maybe can we talk about how to create some predictable, consistent revenue streams that make the highs and the lows, the peaks and the valleys a little bit more tolerable, right? I'm just laughing.   Lisa: It used to be on the inside, but it came out. I was trying to think of the name of that shapewear that people wear under their pants to smooth out the lumps. What is that called? The Spanx. We are coming up with Spanx for revenue.   Brea: Hey, I love it. I love it.   Lisa: Yes. And then, okay, you also, I wanted to just call out that this topic came up because you and I were talking And you were like, I don't know what's going on, but are you seeing this trend? There's a mega activity right now. And you were talking about the good, you know, the lumps, the ups, the good part. And I was laughing because I had just been on a call where people were like, have you seen this trend? There's such a retraction.   Everyone is freaking out and, you know, killing their budgets. And that is such a truth. in the peer groups that I've been in over a decade of doing this work, you get one person who is on a high and they are on a roll.   Then the next person is thinking the world is ending and we tend to assign our personal truths like that's what's going on for everyone and in every time, every time this goes on, you can look around and you can find examples of someone who's on the upper hump and somebody's on the lower hump.   Brea: Yes, and we need each other so much. That's why these communities are so important. Hopefully this podcast is helping to fill that need to recognize that when I'm down, someone else can lift me up or I can be so excited that someone else is having a good day, even if I'm not.   Then I can offer that energy when I'm on a high to someone else who might be on a low. And if we're both on a high, then we're sharing in that. And if we're both at a low, then we're sharing in that. So true.   Lisa: Mm-hmm. OK. Well, should we get right into smoothing the lumps? Or is there more to talk about before ideas and business models and strategies for getting some predictability?   Brea: Yeah, I want to talk about smoothing the lumps. I think Spanx for revenue is a very cool topic. And also, I kind of want to normalize the lumps. As a business owner, I don't mind the lumps. And I think part of that might be looking back and seeing, are there some patterns? Do I see that there are some seasons that are really high, some seasons that are slower?   Can you find those patterns? And if you can, let's just, let's, let's just call it what it is, you know, and then lean into the highs and, and figure out some strategies to make sure you're, you're covered during the lows. It's okay to be lumpy and bumpy, is what I think I'm trying to say. And accepted. Yeah. I remember in 2023, I was expecting about three months of, I knew it was just going to be slower, where I'm not traveling as much, is what I mean by that.   The work that I was doing was pretty much all virtual at the time. And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go home to Kansas City and I'm gonna be near my family. I've got five nieces who I just love to pieces and why not go be near them for little things like baking cookies, going to pumpkin patches and showing up for sports games and Christmas recitals and all the things that I don't normally get to do when I'm living states away. So that's what I mean is sometimes the lumps and bumps can be to our advantage if you can just accept it and then make it work for you, you know?   Lisa: Yes, I like that. And you were also making me think about how some lumps become predictable. So I would say over my 11 years in business, There are a couple of patterns that are pretty common, and that is October is super busy. People are using up their budgets, their corporate budgets, and they're trying to cram it in before the holidays.   Then, and it might be 4x a typical month. Then November, you get a little bit of that carryover, and then it drops off for US Thanksgiving. And then, forget it, December is just going to be low. So that has been something I accepted from the beginning because I knew that from being in talent development teams and learning teams in corporate. I just knew that was how it went as far as workshops and events. And that was fine. And so December was either restful family time or if you have a month to develop something, oh, I want to create an online course, that December would be a great time.   I know if I want to leave the business for three weeks and not reply to an email, that's the time of year to do it. Especially, yeah, that week between Christmas and New Year's and then January is going to explode. So that's a trend that even though it's lumpy, it feels very predictable to me at this point.   Brea: Yeah. Yeah. And also that week between Christmas and New Year's, that's a huge week for me because the individual customers that I'm working with are not working at their jobs. You know, they have free time that they don't normally have. They have downtime and they have mental space in a way that they don't normally have when they're in the hustle bustle of the nine to five workday schedule. So they're much more open. Like that week is like, huge for VIP days or retreats or whatever it is that I'm offering that year.   That's one of my biggest weeks every year because I lean into it, you know, and I create an offering for that. So it really is just kind of looking at the lumps and bumps of the market and looking at the lumps and bumps, you know, in your own business and just deciding, do I want to smooth this out? Do I want to lean into it? Do I want to make the peaks and valleys even greater? You know?   Lisa: Yes. Yeah, the deciding. Oh my gosh, you're hitting on it. It's so important because the same phenomenon that is going on the week between Christmas and New Year's, you're taking it and using it to make an uptick. And I'm using it to say, oh, if everyone's gone, this is amazing. No one will expect an email. This is a time I can really go dark and no one minds. So we're doing an opposite thing with it, with the lump. And that's good. And we both love what we're doing with it. That's such a cool one because it just proves that point out where one person is like, wow, are you seeing this mega bump? And the next person is like, whoa, I'm taking such a dip. Is everyone seeing this?   Brea: Yeah, that's right. That's right. If you're experiencing some lumps and bumps, just know that you're not alone and you're not without hope. There's always an opportunity.   Lisa: Yes. Well, let's talk about some of the things we've done to smooth lumps. So if you have ups and downs, but you have a bread and butter level that comes in, you don't mind the lumps because the bottoms become what used to be the top. That is a key to my strategy in I'm not caring as much about smoothing out lumps.   I'm caring about raise the bottom level so that there's no freak out about bare minimum. There's no freak out about the bottom. I want the bottom to be steady and then the spikes at the top, that's great. That can come in. That's okay with me. How about you? What's your perspective there?   Brea: Well, I agree, and this is something that I'm not naturally good at, and I think you are naturally good at and have just done such a great job of smoothing out that base. I mean, there were a couple years in my business when I didn't even know what that base was. So if you haven't started your business yet or if you are in the beginning stages, start there. Figure out what is your bare minimum and find some more consistent income, some passive revenue or some evergreen stuff or whatever to like give you that base so that the low doesn't feel as low.   Lisa: Right, right, right. OK, so let's talk what we really did. I'll also throw in some ideas of things that I didn't do, but I see other coaches do that I love. But personally, what I did, so again, this is like Lisa strengths aligned. So as a listener, think about your strengths and match it up. For me, I love workshops. Those were my bread and butter. Also, speeches are great. So think of me as an event based person.   I knew the downside to that is if I'm doing a bunch of one off events, That's not a consulting engagement that I have a contract signed for four years. If you could do that, that would be a version of consulting that would smooth the lumps. But I knew that isn't what I wanted. I didn't want to do that level of project management. I wanted to be in, be out, be done. And that feels enlivening to me. But I knew that would mean selling over and over and over again.   One of the things I did with that strength in mind and that desire in mind is I targeted corporate where I could find customers that have big talent academies or learning academies. And they could book many events at a time. So I would get people who would say, OK, let's book 20 for the year in January. And I had several of those customers. So I would have dozens of events just lined up ready to go from these academies because we would offer the same program over and over again to different audiences.   And that was a way for me to be a spark and not have projects to manage and not have deliverables hanging over my head, which didn't feel like they aligned with my strengths and desires. and also kind of have that base come in where I felt really comfortable that the base revenue was going to be great. So there's one strategy, talent academies.   Brea: Yeah. Anytime you can sell one thing and have it repeat over time. I mean, what a great strategy, right? I'm like you, Lisa, you know, I love events and I like getting in and getting out and not having those long commitments.   I love retainers when you can get them from a sense of, I love working with internal coaches who are, you know, they're championing the strengths effort at their company, but it's just one of the hats that you're wearing, you know? You've got so many other things going on. I love being that person in your pocket, that coach that you can rely on when you need a coach, when you need, some extra hands when you, you know, you're onboarding a lot of people and you just need a few extra coaching hours, but you're not looking to bring a coach on, you know, for long term.   You just need a little bit of extra juice for a little bit of time. I love being that person and I can create a retainer for that. and just kind of level out that bottom floor, like you're saying, and still honor my talents of being able to flex and adapt and respond as needed, gives me the variety and the consistency, you know, at the same time.   Lisa: Beautiful. Yeah. And Retainer, endless creativity there. You could do so many things on Retainer.   Brea: So fun. So fun.   Lisa: OK, that also made me think of filling a coaching book of business for one-on-one coaches. If you have packages and you're a one-on-one coach, you could fill your book of business and get to the point that you're filled and you have a waitlist. And that would be a way of smoothing the lumps. Of course, it would require selling and marketing and ongoing work. You can't sit back on your laurels when you're full or close to full. You have to kind of overdo it to keep people on wait lists, but that's a really good way to smooth it out if you're a one-on-one coach. Of course, you could do group coaching that has longer programs.   Like if you have a year-long program, maybe they're on a payment plan that charges them once a month for the year instead of a one time. And just think of the image of that revenue. If they paid you in January for 12 months worth of work, would you rather have that spike of having it up front or would you rather have it leveled out over a 12-month payment plan?   That's up to you to decide what you prefer there. Some would much prefer to have it up front. Some would much prefer to have the steadiness. So it doesn't mean lumpy is bad. I mean, a lump can be a super spike and that can be amazing and you might desire that.   Brea: Yeah, getting people to pay up front. I love that.   Lisa: Okay, another one that popped up for me is digital products. One of the things that I started doing years ago is if I created a cool workbook or some activity guides or some resources that would be follow-ups to a workshop, if I'm already going to create content that is new, which my individualization loves to do.   One of the things I decided to do with myself is kind of like rules for life is, hey, you're going to indulge this individualization that loves to create new stuff. You better make it worth it. And maybe Maximizer's kicking it. Make it worth it. So can you resell this as a standalone product? Then those things are living on and serving customers and they're smoothing for you.   Brea: Mm-hmm. You know, something else that I did not do very well for a while that when I started doing it made a huge difference is nurturing relationships with past clients. My talents are just, you know, high futuristic, high strategic, high activator, high a lot of things that are thinking forward, moving forward. So looking back is just not something that that I do naturally.   Once I was done, I was done. So again, learn from my mistakes and stay in touch with people, even if you're not selling to them. I love sending handwritten cards. I love just a a small like Starbucks e-gift card, you know, I can text that to someone and just say, hey, like coffee's on me today, or even just an email or, you know, it doesn't have to be a gift.   It could be anything to just kind of stay in touch because you never know when they might want to be sold to, you know, or they might, might need you again. And if you don't stay top of mind, then you're not on their mind. Whether that's an email list, you know, like Lisa's really great at or I have my own creative relational ways of staying top of mind, like put in the effort. It's worth it.   Lisa: Yes. Okay. I just have to build on that one. because I am the evergreen queen and I love email marketing software and how that can be used to deliver. You can use that software to deliver training. So I have the rest of the training, these activation courses that are delivered from my email marketing software. It's just a way of sending content out.   From there, I have these nurture sequences that stay in touch for more than two years. after that initial contact. And I can't tell you how many times someone is way into it. They might be over a year into receiving a thing and then they go, Oh, we're doing a team summit. Are you available on June 15, 2027? I mean, they just pick a date out of it. It feels like it comes out of nowhere, but it didn't come out of nowhere. It's systematically in there. And that has been incredible for me, smoothing out the lumps.   Brea: Oh gosh, there's just so much on my mind right now. I think I just want to say when we're talking about revenue, when we're talking about income, when we're talking about the highs and the lows and all of this conversation, it's so easy to attach our worth to the numbers that we're seeing on the screen or that we're not seeing on the screen.   I just want to encourage anyone that's listening to detach who you are, just to detach that from the data that you're seeing on the screen. Like you are not your business, you know? And if, if the market is changing, if the politics are changing, if, if you're seeing a down month, that doesn't mean you're a bad person or you're a bad business owner. It just means that this is happening and that's okay. So I guess I just am feeling inspired to speak that over people that are listening.   Lisa: Because you know it happens so often. When I'm listening, I hear what you're saying and I'm thinking of the words and I'm like, lumpy revenue happened. Lumpy income happens.   Brea: Yes.   Lisa: Lumpy. And that's a thing. Like, you can just look at it and go, OK, that is a picture. It's on a chart. And there are plenty of business strategies that can address it. So if you see a trend you don't like, cool. You can come up with a business strategy that can smooth it out. Work with a coach who can help you smooth it out. Great. We all have the ability to build these businesses that are incredible and serve us. It's just an experiment.   I feel like all of this is an experiment in aligning what makes the business go and what makes you go with your strengths and your values. It's just that constant messing with the dials and finding the experiments so that the business strategy, the revenue that comes in, your personal preferences, they can all find alignment. And sometimes it takes several years to play around and find all of that. And meanwhile, yeah, give yourself a break.   You're building your selling skills. You're figuring out all this software. You didn't know you were going to become a full-time marketer and salesperson and you're delivering on the work and you're trying to find a business strategy that there's a lot going on when you're in those first years of business. So have a play with it.   Brea: Yes. And yes, all of that, rewind, listen to it again. Yes. And realize that even when you think you finally got it, like things will change. What worked for me seven years ago doesn't work for me today. You know, like not all the time, not in all the ways. So when things happen that are different, like the whole impetus for this conversation was my Vox to Lisa that said, Why all of a sudden are these people that have been ghosting me for literally years?   I have a client that I can now call them a client because they have paid me to come and do some work for them. But it's been eight plus years that I have been pursuing them, nurturing them. And then all of a sudden it's like, boom, we're ready. Some of those people are coming out of the woodworks. And so you just never know why some things hit when they do and some things don't. So just expect the unexpected, know that lumps and bumps are part of it.   It doesn't mean that something is broken or wrong. It just means that this is happening. And how do we approach it? How do we respond? Those are the skills and talents to learn and to grow in yourself as a human and as a business owner because everything else is changing. Technology changes so fast. You know, what works with the algorithm today, in a few months it's going to be different.   Build your offerings around things that you enjoy delivering and want to sell because if you like it and you want to do it, then it's easier to sell, you know? So, um, that's it. I'll get off my pedestal, but I love this conversation so much. Yes.   Lisa: Yeah. The mind exploding emoji. Like if you love it, you're going to bring an amazing energy around it and it's going to make it so much easier to sell if it aligns with you. So yeah, I think that alignment part and the worthiness thing that you brought up is an important undercurrent in this thing.   Okay, I thought of a closing thought and it's a new idea, so I think it is important for those people who are side hustling or they are still in their corporate job but they have been dreaming of leaving and doing the coaching, workshopping, speaking kind of thing full time. This idea of lumpy revenue and whether you have an appetite for it is a consideration that's valuable to have before you decide to leave and put that in your plans, whether that means you have a longer savings runway.   If you can get that level one covered so that the things that are on top of it are good, get that level one customer base. Prove to yourself that you can sell something, that you know what your product is, that you have your basic website up, those kind of things. That can be very helpful in bolstering that fear part that comes when people launch and leave.   It feels like The lumps are smoothed out before it's all on the line. So that's not something everybody needs to do but for someone like me that that would have helped a lot if I had two years to Make my business idea get things sold get the strategies going get all the nurture going that would have been Incredible for me to get rid of a lot of stress and fear. I had just going straight out of the gate   Brea: Yeah, totally. My crowdfunding campaign did a little bit of that, you know, in the fact that I was able to launch with a hundred coaching sessions paid for, you know, but nothing else was done. I mean, it was just completely building the plane as we tried to get it off the ground.   A hundred percent, if I would have had the opportunity to give myself more runway, I mean, my goodness, I could have gone so much further faster. So two thumbs up, like I'm raising all my hands and all my feet, all my toes. I'm scared of two toes up.   Lisa: What did I even say? I don't even know. Two thumbs up. Two toes up. I mean, drop the mic with that. That is where you end - with that visual. We'll see you all later. I'm thinking of Brea's toes right now. Bye for now.   Brea: Bye.     Let's Connect! ●      LISA: Website | LinkedIn | Facebook ●      BREA: Website | LinkedIn | Instagram   The Fine Print: This podcast is not sanctioned or endorsed by Gallup in any way. Opinions, views and interpretations of CliftonStrengths© are solely the beliefs of Lisa Cummings and Brea Roper.