117: Julz James: Automation inception, teaching martech and unraveling intent data

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Adam Greco, Field CTO / Product Evangelist at Amplitude. Summary: Adam is a leading voice in digital analytics and he unpacks event-based analytics and how it’s transformed how marketers interact with data. Data tools are complicating the martech landscape with overlapping functionality and confusing terminology so Adam breaks down the nuanced difference between product analytics, customer data infrastructure and ETL. Adam also walks us through how his team combines marketing, product, and experience analytics getting a fuller view that informs smarter, more effective strategies. We also cover the shift to interactive dashboards as well as warehouse native martech and what it means for marketers. Marketers need to work closely with data teams to ensure these new tools are practical without being overwhelmingly complex, allowing them to lead confidently in their industries.About AdamAdam is one of the leading voices in digital analyticsHe’s managed marketing and customer success teams at enterprise companies and consulting firmsHe’s been Senior Director of Marketing and Analytics at Salesforce He spent nearly a decade as a Senior Partner at one of the best-known analytics consultancies in Analytics Demystified where he’s advised hundreds of organizations on analytics best practicesHe’s been a Board Advisor at various well-known startups, analytics associations, capital funds and universities He’s authored over 300 blogs and one book related to analyticsHe’s a frequent speaker at big-name analytics conferencesToday he’s Field CTO at Amplitude, where he focuses on providing content, education, and strategic advice on how to build better productsUnderstanding Event Based AnalyticsAdam unpacks the shift towards event-based analytics, a concept that may seem confusing to those accustomed to traditional digital analytics. He explains that back when the internet was simpler and mostly about websites, tracking was straightforward: look at pageviews and sessions and hope for conversions. But as technology evolved—think smartphones and apps—the old methods became less effective.Mobile apps changed the game. Interactions on these platforms are brief and frequent, shifting the focus from long sessions to brief, meaningful interactions, each marked as an event. Adam points out that his company, Amplitude, was at the forefront of adopting this approach, realizing that tracking every tap and swipe gave a clearer picture of user engagement than the traditional methods.As both websites and apps became integral to user experience, the analytics field faced a choice: stick with the old or adapt to the new. The answer was overwhelmingly in favor of event-based analytics. Major players like Google and Adobe redefined sessions as just another event, creating a unified model that could track interactions across platforms, be they digital or physical, like visiting a store or calling customer support.This evolution means marketers can now see a fuller, more dynamic view of how users engage across different platforms. Understanding that a session is a collection of events, rather than a fixed time slot, offers a richer, more nuanced understanding of user behavior.Key takeaway: Embracing event-based analytics allows marketers to capture the full spectrum of customer interactions, offering a granular view that is vital for crafting targeted, effective marketing strategies. This approach not only keeps pace with the evolving tech landscape but also provides the insights needed to enhance customer engagement and satisfaction.Product Analytics vs Customer Data Infrastructure vs ETLAdam explains the evolving landscape of martech tools, focusing on how they intersect and differ, simplifying a topic that can be quite bewildering for even experienced marketers. Initially, the task for marketers was to employ simple tools provided by companies like Google or Adobe, which handled data collection via embedded codes on websites or apps. These tools offered convenience but at the cost of flexibility and depth in data manipulation.With the advent of more specialized tools, the dynamics changed. Customer Data Infrastructure (CDI) tools like Jitsu, MetaRouter, and Rudderstack focus mainly on collecting first-party data from apps and websites, pushing this information directly into data warehouses. They don’t delve into analytics but excel at gathering clean, structured data.On the other hand, Extract, Transform, Load (ETL) tools such as Airbyte and Fivetran specialize in integrating data from various third-party tools into a central warehouse. They transform the data during this process to ensure it fits well within the existing structures and schemas of a company’s database, enhancing the data’s utility for comprehensive analysis.Customer Data Platforms (CDP) like mParticle and Segment represent a more holistic approach, incorporating features of both CDI and ETL. They not only aggregate and organize data but also enrich it, providing a robust platform that supports marketing automation and personalized customer experiences based on the unified data they help curate.Adam highlights that while CDI, CDP, and ETL tools are vital for data orchestration, they often lack robust analytical capabilities. This is where Product Analytics tools like Amplitude step in. Amplitude starts with some features of CDI but integrates extensive analytics and visualization capabilities, allowing marketers to not only collect and see their data but also to derive meaningful insights and build complex reports directly.Adam also emphasizes the importance of flexibility in Amplitude’s approach to integrating with the broader martech ecosystem. Despite the overlap with features typically found in CDIs, Amplitude continuously expands its capabilities to better meet the needs of its users. Central to its philosophy is maintaining an open system. Unlike some platforms that might restrict interoperability with competitors' tools, Amplitude encourages its users to integrate as they see fit, whether that means using Amplitude in conjunction with other products or relying on it more heavily for certain functions. This openness not only provides users with the flexibility to tailor their data strategies precisely but also offers potential cost savings by allowing them to choose the most effective combination of tools for their specific needs. By listening to customer feedback and adapting its offerings, Amplitude aims to provide the most value, ensuring that clients have the best tools at their disposal, no matter the complexity of their data needs.Key takeaway: Marketers looking to refine their tech stacks should consider how each tool fits into their broader strategy. Integrating platforms like Amplitude that handle multiple functions—from data collection to visualization—can simplify operations and cut costs. This approach not only makes managing marketing technology easier but also ensures that teams can quickly adapt to changes and opportunities in the market, keeping them one step ahead.Converging marketing, experience and product analyticsWhen Adam penned his thoughts on the convergence of digital marketing, experience, and product analytics back in 2021, the concept faced skepticism. Fast forward to 2024, and the landscape validates his insights, showing a clear trend toward unified analytics platforms. The separation of marketing, product, and design analytics is becoming obsolete as companies recognize the inefficiencies of siloed data approaches.In his early career at companies like Salesforce,...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Mandy Thompson, CEO and Co-Founder of Digital Reach. Summary: Mandy shares powerful mindsets and practical frameworks for marketers aiming to future-proof their careers in the complex galaxy of martech mixed up with AI, data privacy, and genuine customer engagement. We cover the art of documentation to avoid feeling like you’re in an Indiana Jones adventure sifting through digital cobwebs from ghosts of marketers past when you dive into a company’s martech setup. We also examined the use of intent data, urging a balanced approach that respects privacy. She highlighted her practical use of virtual whiteboarding to pre-plan automations and using ChatGPT for marketing automation use cases. Most importantly, Mandy shared how blending personal authenticity with professional savvy creates genuine connections, far more valuable than superficial likes on social media. About MandyMandy started her career plunging into entrepreneurship launching an Advocacy and Consulting firm where she ran Marketing and sales for 3 successful years, growing the team to 25 people and crossing 1M in rev in the first yearShe later sold everything she owned and went out on her own traveling the world as a digital nomad – freelancing as a copywriter and a web developer. She developed and produced an online course that generated 7 figure returnsShe co-founded Digital Reach, a digital agency where she spent 8 years focused on sales and account management, before becoming CEO where she’s spent the last 3.5 years growing the agency 300% YOYShe’s a member of Pavilion and RevGenius, she’s also a Treasurer Board of Directors at the New Mexico Psychedelic Science SocietyFinding Your True Self in the WorkspaceMandy shares a piece of her life with us, a story that's as much about the tattoos on her skin as it is about the unseen marks her experiences have left. It's a peek into the life of someone who's part of the LGBTQIA+ community, a proud woman in a world that still wrestles with equality, and a professional who's dared to blur the lines between her personal and professional selves. Her story isn't just hers alone; it echoes the journeys of many who feel like they're juggling multiple identities, trying to find a spot where they fit in without having to compromise on who they truly are.She talks about starting with what's comfortable and pushing the boundaries from there. It's like dipping your toes into the ocean to gauge the temperature before plunging in. Mandy found that the more she shared, the more she discovered people who were like her or, at the very least, people who were open to embracing her totality without judgment. Her tale is a reminder that often, our fears of rejection are far greater than the reality of it.The pandemic, for all its chaos, played a surprising role in Mandy's life. It pushed the professional world into a more authentic space, where business suits met bedroom backgrounds in Zoom calls. For Mandy, it was a time when the digital nomad lifestyle she had always embraced suddenly became the norm. The shift wasn't just about work cultures becoming more accepting of remote work; it was about the world getting a glimpse into the personal lives of its workforce, making everyone a bit more human.Mandy's discussion about the intersecting circles of our personal and professional lives—how we must find that sweet spot where we can be true to ourselves while still rocking our roles at work—is insightful. She doesn't shy away from dressing up for an important client meeting, not as a betrayal to her identity, but as a nod to the professional context. It's about knowing when and how to showcase different facets of ourselves, a dance between being authentically us and professionally adaptable.Key takeaway: Embracing your full self at work is less about a grand revelation and more about small, confident steps towards being true to who you are. For marketers, this means understanding that your personal story and how you choose to share it can become your strength, allowing you to connect on a more genuine level with your audience, colleagues, and industry at large. It's about finding your voice in a way that resonates with both who you are and who you aspire to be professionally.Genuine Connections Over Likes on SocialMandy's got a point that'll make you rethink your whole LinkedIn strategy. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking you need to blend in to get ahead. You know the feeling, scrolling through your feed and it's like everyone's marching to the beat of the same drum. But Mandy's here to tell us that's not where it's at. The real magic happens when you break from the pack and share what makes you, well, you. It's not about racking up likes or followers. It's about striking a chord with the people who get you.She's pretty clear on one thing: chasing popularity isn't the goal. Imagine reaching your career milestones, not because you played it safe, but because you were real with your network. Think about it. Do you really need thousands of likes to say you've made it? Nah. If your post lights up the day for just a handful of people, those are your people. They're the ones who dig what you're saying and that's worth its weight in gold.Let's be real, though. It can sting a bit when you see others with their crazy-high follower counts and endless stream of comments. Mandy feels that too. Putting yourself out there and then hearing crickets? Tough. But she's adamant that finding your voice and your tribe beats playing it safe any day. It's not about shouting into the void but whispering to those who are actually listening.Mandy reminds us that the digital world is vast, but the corners where we find our kindred spirits are precious. It's less about impressing the crowd and more about connecting with the few who truly appreciate your uniqueness.Key takeaway: Don't lose yourself in the quest for likes and approval on LinkedIn. Authenticity is your superpower. For marketers, remember, it's the genuine connections that count, not the size of your audience. Focus on those who resonate with your true self, and you'll find not only your tribe but also your path to true professional fulfillment.Treat Your Marketing Team like Your Agency Within the CompanyMandy has this straightforward way of talking about managing marketing teams that feels like a breath of fresh air. She takes us behind the scenes of running an agency, where it’s all about juggling different accounts and making sure everyone’s rowing in the same direction. It’s this dance of making sure what you promise on one hand, you can actually deliver on the other. And it all boils down to something she calls mutual accountability - a two-way street where the team and leaders keep each other in check.The trick is to always have a clear picture of what’s doable. Mandy points out how essential it is to match up the team's workload with what clients are asking for. It's pretty much like saying, "Let's not bite off more than we can chew." If someone’s schedule is already packed, promising a client that their request can be done next week isn't just unrealistic; it's unfair to the team. It's about finding that sweet spot where the team's capacity meets client expectations without anyone having to burn the midnight oil unnecessarily.Mandy's a big fan of using smart tools to keep everything on track. She talks about something called teamwork, but it’s clear the real teamwork happens when these tools give everyone a clear view of the workload, deadlines, and what's at stake financially. It's not just about checking tasks off a list; it's about making informed decis...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Dr. Julz James, Senior Marketing Ops Manager at 6sense and Adjunct Professor at St. Edwards University. Summary: Jul is a marketing ops leader and a martech Professor who's rewriting the rulebook on how to navigate the martech galaxy. She walks us through automation inception, like a dream within a dream, and how she’s leveraged an iPaaS tool to automate her automations. She also unravels intent data and how her team has moved beyond lead scoring to adopt account scoring. Sprinkle in her freelance learnings, and you've got a recipe for someone who's not just working in marketing ops but thriving, bringing fresh insights and strategies to the classroom. This episode is a nice reminder that with a bit of curiosity, a dash of adaptability, and a love for teaching, the galaxy of martech tools isn't just approachable—it's yours to automate.About JulzJulz got her start wearing multiple marketing hats including website management and SEO for variety of SMBs and later a big recruiting firm Julz then decided to go back to school to pursue a PhD at the University of South Wales, undertaking work-based doctoral research while working with an growing ecomm companyShe later worked as a Marketing Automation Manager at a few different tech companies including Mitel and a talent software startupJulz then decided to move from the UK to Austin Texas to take an Assistant Professor of Marketing gig at St. Edwards University and is currently still a Part-time Adjunct ProfessorShe also started freelancing in marketing operations and would later join Blue Prism as their srn Marketing Ops ManagerFinally she had a short stint at Adobe before settling in at 6sense where she’s currently leading Marketing OperationsA New Approach to Educating the Modern MarketerImagine walking into a marketing class and instead of cracking open a dusty textbook that smells like the '80s, you're handed a sandbox loaded with today's leading marketing software. This isn't a scene from a futuristic movie; it's what Julz is bringing to the table in her marketing courses. Gone are the days of learning marketing theories that feel like a DVD. Julz has swapped them for lessons on the tools that marketers actually use in their jobs today.Julz loves teaching not for the sake of it but for the lightbulb moments she sees in her students when they connect the dots between class material and their day jobs in marketing. She draws from her own reservoir of experiences, sharing how she navigates the marketing world with tools like Marketo and Salesforce, making her classes a treasure trove of real-life wisdom.Her approach is refreshingly practical. Remember learning about the four P's and Porter’s Five Forces? Julz believes those concepts are as relevant to today's marketing as a pager is to personal communication. Instead, she's all about diving into the digital tools that shape modern marketing strategies, shifting the focus from memorizing models to mastering martech.Creating course content is no walk in the park, especially when the galaxy of martech tools changes faster than you can hit refresh. But Julz is on top of it, crafting her materials from a blend of up-to-the-minute blogs, community discussions, and the latest ebooks. It’s about making sure her students aren't just keeping pace but are ahead of the curve, ready to apply what they've learned in real-time scenarios.Key takeaway: If you're in marketing and looking to make your mark, take a page out of Julz's playbook. Forget the dry theories that gather dust on a shelf. It's all about rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty with the tech that's shaping our world right now. Being quick on your feet, always hungry to learn something new, and getting cozy with the latest martech? That's the secret sauce for not just making it but also having fun.Unlocking the Secrets of Martech Without Coding SkillsEver think you need to be a coding guru to rock at marketing tech? Julz has some news for you: that's not the case. Picture this: you're more like a tech-savvy wizard, weaving different digital tools together, making them do exactly what marketing needs them to do. And guess what? You don't need to write lines of code to pull it off.Julz puts it simply – her gig in marketing operations is kind of like being an IT whiz but all jazzed up for marketing. You get systems to play nice with each other, not by coding from scratch but by knowing just enough to make smart tweaks here and there. It's like knowing how to change a tire without being a mechanic. Sure, dipping your toes into HTML or JavaScript is helpful, especially when you need to adjust something small on a website or in an email. But the real game? It’s all about seeing the big picture, understanding how different platforms and tools fit into the marketing puzzle.Drawing from her own adventures, Julz shares how her journey through engineering and tinkering with gadgets wasn’t about the math or the mechanics but about solving puzzles and being curious. Whether it’s figuring out why a campaign isn’t performing or integrating a new tool into the tech stack, it’s this curiosity and problem-solving drive that counts.Here’s the kicker: the world of marketing tech is becoming more user-friendly by the day. Tools that used to require a developer to set up can now be managed with a few clicks and drags. This shift doesn’t mean technical skills aren’t valuable; it just means the focus is shifting towards strategy and understanding how to connect the dots between different technologies to create a seamless marketing engine.Key takeaway: Jumping into marketing tech doesn’t mean you need to bury yourself in code. It’s all about understanding the flow between different tools and technologies and using that knowledge to craft marketing strategies that hit the mark. So, if you're curious, ready to tackle problems, and can think on your feet, you’re already well on your way to making a big splash in martech, no coding required.Why Qualified Accounts Beat MQLs in Modern MarketingWhen Julz landed at 6sense, she walked into a whole new playbook for marketing ops. Gone were the days of obsessing over who's scoring what in leads. Here, it was all about tuning into accounts showing us buying signals, loud and clear. It took her a hot minute — okay, six months — to really get why they weren't sweating over lead scores. Ditching lead scoring felt like saying goodbye to an old friend, but it opened her eyes to a smarter way to connect with potential buyers.Think of it this way: It's not about waiting for someone to wave a flag saying, "Hey, I downloaded your ebook!" It's about catching those signals that someone's already scoping you out, ready to chat about what you do. They call these signals from their AI buddy at 6sense, the 6QAs. It's like having a secret decoder ring that shows them who's already thinking about buying without them having to say a word.But here’s the wild part: Once you spot these ready-to-buy accounts, how do you know who to talk to? That's where things get really interesting. They dove into their win stories and figured out who's usually in on the buying decision. Not by names, but by their roles. Are they in ops? Sales? Marketing? This wasn’t just a wild guess; it’s about knowing the committee that’s going to nod yes or no to what you offer.Their sales conversations shifted dramatically. Instead of chasing down every single lead, they started having real talks with the right folks in these companies, all thanks to a mix of their own tools and a hefty dose of strategy. They’re not just throwing darts...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Kevin Hu (Hoo), Co-founder and CEO at Metaplane. Summary: Dr. Kevin Hu gives us a masterclass on everything data. Data analysis, data storytelling, data quality, data observability and data anomaly detection. We unpack the power of inquisitive data analysis and a hypothesis-driven approach, emphasizing the importance of balancing data perfection with actually doing the work of activating that data. He highlights data observability and anomaly detection as a key to preempting errors, ensuring data integrity for a seamless user experience. Amid the rise of AI in martech, he champions marketing ops' role in safeguarding data quality, making clear that success hinges on our ability to manage data with precision, creativity, and proactive vigilance. About KevinKevin did his undergrad in Physics at MITHe later collaborated with his biologist sister, assisting in analyzing five years of fish behavior data. This experience inspired him to further his research and earn a master's degree in Data Visualization and Machine LearningHe also completed a PhD in Philosophy at MIT where he led research on automated data visualization and semantic type detection His research was published at several conferences like CHI (pronounced Kai) (human-computer interaction), SIGMOD (database) and KDD (data mining) and featured in the Economist, NYT and WiredIn 2019, Kevin teamed up with former Hubspot and Appcues engineers to launch Metaplane, initially set out to be a product focused on customer success, designed to analyze company data for churn preventionBut after going through Y Combinator, the company pivoted slightly to build data analytics-focused toolsToday Metaplane is a data observability platform powered by ML-based anomaly detection that helps teams prevent and detect data issues — before the CEO pings them about weird revenue numbers.How to Ask the Right Questions in Data AnalysisWhen Kevin shared the profound impact César Hidalgo, his mentor at MIT, had on his journey into the data world, it wasn't just about learning to analyze data; it was about asking the right questions. César put together one of our favorite TED talks ever – Why we should automate politicians with AI agents – this was back in 2018, long before ChatGPT was popular. Hidalgo, recognized not only for AI and ML applications but also developing innovative methods to visualize complex data and making it understandable to a broader audience, was the most important teacher in Kevin’s life. He helped Kevin understand that the bottleneck in data analysis wasn't necessarily a lack of coding skills but a gap in understanding what to ask of the data. This revelation came at a pivotal moment as Kevin navigated his path through grad school, influenced by his sister's work in animal behavior and his own struggles with coding tools like R and MATLAB.Under Hidalgo's guidance, Kevin was introduced to a broader perspective on data analysis. This wasn't just about running numbers through a program; it was about diffusing those numbers with context and meaning. Hidalgo's approach to mentorship, characterized by personalized attention and encouragement to delve into complex ideas, like those presented in Steven Pinker's "The Blank Slate," opened up a new world of inquiry for Kevin. It was a world where the questions one asked were as critical as the data one analyzed.This mentorship experience highlights the importance of curiosity and critical thinking in the field of data science. Kevin's reflection on his journey reveals a key insight: mastering coding languages is only one piece of the puzzle. The ability to question, to seek out the stories data tells, and to understand the broader implications of those stories is equally, if not more, important.Kevin's gratitude towards Hidalgo for his investment in students' growth serves as a reminder of the value of mentorship. It’s a testament to the idea that the best mentors don't just teach you how to execute tasks; they inspire you to see beyond the immediate horizon. They challenge you to think deeply about your work and its impact on the world.Key takeaway: For marketers delving into data-informed strategies, Kevin's story is a powerful reminder that beyond the technical skills, the ability to ask compelling, insightful questions of your data can dramatically amplify its value. Focus on nurturing a deep, inquisitive approach to understanding consumer behavior and market trends.Bridging Academic Rigor with Startup AgilityDuring his career in academia working alongside Olympian-caliber scientists and researchers, Kevin garnered insights that have since influenced his approach to running a startup. The parallels between academia and startups are striking, with both realms embodying a journey of perseverance and unpredictability. This analogy provides a foundational mindset for entrepreneurs who must navigate the uncertain waters of business development with resilience and adaptability.At the heart of Kevin's philosophy is the adoption of a hypothesis-driven approach. This methodology, borrowed from academic research, emphasizes the importance of formulating hypotheses for various aspects of business operations, particularly in marketing strategies. Identifying the ideal customer profile (ICP), crafting compelling messaging, and selecting the optimal channels are seen not as static decisions but as theories to be rigorously tested and iterated upon. This empirical approach allows for a methodical exploration of what resonates best with the target audience, acknowledging that today's successful strategy may need reevaluation tomorrow.Another vital lesson from academia that Kevin emphasizes is the respect for past endeavors. In a startup ecosystem often obsessed with innovation, there's a tendency to overlook the lessons learned from previous attempts in similar ventures. By acknowledging and building upon the efforts of predecessors, Kevin advocates for a more informed and grounded approach to innovation. This perspective encourages entrepreneurs to consider the historical context of their ideas and strategies, potentially saving time and resources by learning from past mistakes rather than repeating them.Key takeaway: Embracing a hypothesis-driven mindset should be familiar grounds for marketers. Challenge your team to identify and test hypotheses around underexplored or seemingly less significant customer segments. This could involve hypothesizing the effectiveness of personalized content for a niche within your broader audience that has been overlooked, measuring engagement against broader campaigns.Balancing Data Accuracy with Rapid GrowthFor startups grappling with survival, the luxury of perfect data is often out of reach. Kevin points out that data quality should be tailored to the specific needs of the business. For instance, data utilized for quarterly board meetings does not necessitate the same level of freshness as data driving daily customer interactions. This pragmatic approach underscores the importance of defining data quality standards based on the frequency and criticality of business decisions.At the heart of Kevin's argument is the concept that as businesses scale, the stakes of data accuracy and timeliness escalate. He highlights scenarios where real-time data becomes crucial, such as B2B SaaS companies engaging with potential leads or e-commerce platforms optimizing their customer journey. In these cases, even slight inaccuracies or delays can result in missed revenue opportunities or diminished customer trust.This discourse on data quality transcends the binary choice between perfect data and rapid action. Instead, Kevin advoc...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Amrita Mathur, VP of Marketing at ClickUp.Summary: Building a brand from zero is all about diving deep into what makes your audience tick and tailoring your messages to hit just right. Amrita digs into this, stressing the gold in blending hard data with your gut in order to spot what truly connects. It’s not about the immediate wins; it’s hunting for those less obvious cues that hint you’re on to something. When it comes to team-building, she’s clear: bring on board folks who are curious, the ones who ask all of the questions and are unafraid of constructive criticism. For Amrita, the secret sauce to thriving in marketing, beyond all the strategy and insights, boils down to enjoying the ride and the people you’re with, transforming work from a mere grind to an adventure worth every second.About AmritaAmrita kicked off her career at a startup in Toronto that was later acquired by OpenText, there she wore many different marketing hats, and later progressed to Redknee as Product Marketing ManagerShe briefly shifted to customer success at Jonas Software, concentrating on customer growth and retention and later returned to product marketing at Toronto Region Board of TradeShe then became Director of Marketing at PriceMetrix/McKinsey, where she led marketing planning and team hiringShe also led Demand Marketing at Vision Critical where she focused on go-to-market strategies, demand generation, and martechAmrita then moved over to Top Hat as Vice President overseeing Demand Generation, Marketing Operations & GrowthShen then joined a startup called Konsus founded by two Norwegian entrepreneurs who secured seed funding from Sam Altman and the Slack Fund. There she led the rebrand of the company to Superside and built a team that helped the startup grow from 0 to $4M in year 1 and reach $60M by year 4Finally, Amrita has recently joined San Diego-based ClickUp, the popular productivity platform valued at over $4B, known best for their SuperBowl ad or their music albumThe Myth of the Ivory Tower in Tech LeadershipAmrita’s journey at ClickUp shatters the common myth of the ‘ivory tower’ often associated with leadership roles in substantial tech enterprises. Despite the company’s impressive valuation and extensive team, she emphasizes a hands-on approach that defies traditional expectations. At ClickUp, there’s no detachment between the upper management and the operational workforce; instead, the organization champions a flat hierarchy. This structure not only promotes visibility across all levels but also encourages direct involvement in operational tasks, regardless of one’s title.The ethos at ClickUp, as Amrita describes, mirrors what’s often referred to as the ‘Stripe model’—a reference to Stripe’s renowned flat organizational structure. This approach ensures that despite rapid growth, the company maintains an environment where every individual, from interns to VPs, is expected to dive deep into the minutiae of their work. It’s a testament to the belief that understanding and engaging with the details are paramount to effectiveness. ClickUp’s CEO reinforces this by advocating for a culture where being ‘in the details’ is not just encouraged but required.This philosophy stands in stark contrast to what Amrita experienced towards the end of her tenure at Superside, where she could afford to step back, confident in her team’s ability to manage without her direct oversight. At ClickUp, the scenario is vastly different. The expectation to remain operationally involved means leadership roles are as much about rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty as they are about strategic oversight.The ClickUp model demonstrates a pivotal shift in how companies view leadership and organizational structure. It challenges the notion that senior positions are synonymous with distance from the day-to-day operations, highlighting the importance of a collaborative and transparent work environment. This approach not only ensures that leaders remain grounded and connected to their team’s work but also fosters a culture of accountability and shared responsibility.Key takeaway: At ClickUp, success is found not in the isolation of leadership roles but in their integration within the operational fabric of the company. This model serves as a compelling blueprint for marketers: to stay relevant and effective, immerse yourself in the granular aspects of your work, foster transparency, and maintain a willingness to engage across all levels of the organization.Choosing Between Testing and Informed Decision-MakingAmrita sheds light on a prevalent misconception in the marketing world: the notion that every decision should be subjected to testing. This idea, while rooted in the desire to make data-driven decisions, often becomes a stumbling block, delaying action and fostering indecision. With ClickUp’s significant web traffic and signup volumes, one might assume an endless capacity for testing. However, Amrita points out that this isn’t always the most effective approach. Traffic isn’t uniformly distributed across all initiatives, necessitating a more discerning strategy for deciding what to test and what decisions can be made based on informed hypotheses.For instance, the launch of ClickUp’s AI product, Click AppBrain, presented a scenario with zero initial traffic, making traditional A/B testing impractical at the outset. Instead, ClickUp opted for a bold approach, deviating from conventional landing page norms to create something distinctive and engaging. This strategy, as Amrita describes, is about ‘zagging’ when others ‘zig’, striving for uniqueness in a crowded marketplace. The success of their unconventional approach is evident in the substantial interest generated for their launch event, demonstrating that not all marketing initiatives need to be prefaced by rigorous testing.Amrita’s philosophy extends to broader marketing decisions, where not everything falls neatly into the ‘testing’ bucket. Certain endeavors, like sponsoring a podcast, defy straightforward measurement. The decision to proceed often hinges on understanding the audience and trusting the medium’s reach rather than on direct testing outcomes. This highlights the importance of leveraging different marketing disciplines to create compelling campaigns that might not initially lend themselves to A/B testing but are nevertheless rooted in strategic thinking.The approach to testing at ClickUp underlines a crucial balance between data-driven decision-making and intuitive marketing strategies. While A/B testing remains a valuable tool for optimizing conversions and understanding user behavior, Amrita’s insights remind us that marketing’s artistry lies in knowing when to rely on data and when to trust in creativity and market understanding.Key takeaway: Marketers should focus on cultivating an ability to discern which initiatives require validation through testing and which can advance based on informed hypotheses and innovative thinking. This approach not only streamlines decision-making but also encourages creativity and differentiation in a competitive landscape.Optimizing for Velocity of Learning in Early-Stage MarketingIn the formative stages of Superside, Amrita encountered the challenge many startups face: limited traffic and the pressure to demonstrate growth through experimentation. Instead of focusing solely on the quantity of tests, the emphasis was placed on the ‘velocity of learning,’ a concept introduced by her CEO. This shift in perspective, from quantitative to qualitative insights, paved the way for a more flexible and insightful approach to growth.

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Mauro Figueiredo, a global Digital Transformation and MarTech leader (and Innovator). Summary: Mauro walked us through his blueprint for building multifaceted teams equipped with technical, emotional, and strategic competencies. We emphasized the significance of identifying martech talent through self-awareness and curiosity, and how these traits play a crucial role in navigating the integration of martech with analytics and AI. We also focused on leveraging AI in marketing and the dangerous messaging of Co-Pilot’s Superbowl ad. By fostering a culture of continuous learning and cross-functional collaboration, marketers can unlock new opportunities in AI and ensure their strategies align with business goals for impactful outcomes.About MauroMauro spent the first 6 years of his career focusing on CRM and marketing automation for various gambling and casino companies across the UK and MaltaHe worked as a Senior CRM Manager at Sony Computer Entertainment focused on growing PlayStation game launches including Uncharted 4, Playstation VR and several live eventsHe later had short advisory stints at a business aviation company and a booking marketplace startupHe then joined Europe’s largest gaming publisher – Gameforge as their Head of CRM where he led multichannel campaigns that spanned across 400M+ usersHe then made the mage move to JPMorgan Chase as Executive Director of CRM where he built the CRM department from the ground upMost recently he’s moved to APAC Vietnam to be Director of Martech and Center of Excellence at a regional financial institutionA Blueprint for Building Effective Martech TeamsWhen constructing a Martech team, the approach should be tailored, recognizing that the company's size and the team's maturity significantly influence the team's structure and dynamics. Mauro's method begins with a clear understanding of the project's scope, the technologies required to address the business challenge, and the delivery of tangible business value. Identifying the necessary hard skills is just the initial step; the blend of technological prowess and customer-centric focus forms the foundation of a capable team.Equally crucial to hard skills, however, is the team members' attitude and characteristics. Mauro emphasizes the importance of adaptability and resilience, qualities that enable team members to navigate through the inevitable changes in project scope, technology, and industry trends. The ability to shift modes from discovery to definition and then to implementation, all while remaining open to adjustments, is essential. This flexibility is not just about coping with changes but thriving amidst them, ensuring the team's effectiveness and the project's success.The journey from the inception of a Martech project to its completion involves various phases, each demanding a different mindset and set of capabilities. The selection of team members who possess a well-rounded skill set, blending technical knowledge with a customer and experience obsession, is vital. Moreover, prioritizing soft skills and personality traits such as resilience and adaptability ensures the team can withstand and adapt to unforeseen challenges.Key takeaway: Building a winning Martech team requires more than just technical expertise. Invest in cross-training within your Martech team to ensure every member can handle multiple aspects of projects. This not only enhances team flexibility but also prepares each marketer for future roles in an ever-changing landscape.Interview Tips for Identifying Future Martech StarsSpotting the next Martech superstar hinges not just on evaluating their resume but on assessing their emotional intelligence (EQ) and problem-solving capabilities. Mauro shares that beyond the standard assessment of a candidate's career achievements, he delves into how they've navigated specific situations, tasks, actions, and results, adhering to the STAR model. This method uncovers not just what the candidate has done but how they've approached challenges and contributed to their team's success.After vetting a candidate's professional skills and understanding their career trajectory, Mauro shifts the focus towards EQ. He employs a unique set of questions designed to reveal how candidates perceive themselves and how they believe others perceive them. Asking candidates to describe themselves in four words and then to reflect on how their friends might describe them serves a dual purpose. It not only provides insights into the candidate's self-awareness but also opens a window into their personality and motivations.This approach to interviewing goes beyond traditional methods, allowing leaders to gain a deeper understanding of a candidate's interpersonal skills and how they relate to others. Such questions can surprise candidates, prompting them to think more deeply about themselves and how they interact with the world around them. The disparity, or lack thereof, between self-perception and external perception can be telling, revealing traits that are crucial for roles requiring high levels of collaboration and adaptability.Mauro's method exemplifies a comprehensive approach to identifying potential team members who are not just technically proficient but also emotionally intelligent and adept at navigating complex social dynamics. This balanced assessment strategy ensures that the Martech stars of the future are well-rounded individuals capable of contributing to a team's success on multiple levels.Key takeaway: Enhance your interview readiness by preparing to showcase not only your technical skills and professional achievements but also your emotional intelligence and self-awareness. Reflect on how you've tackled past challenges using the STAR method and consider how you perceive yourself versus how others might see you. This preparation can set you apart in interviews, demonstrating your depth as a candidate and your potential as a future Martech leader.Valuing Curiosity in Martech RecruitmentCuriosity is a fundamental trait for anyone in marketing. Mauro sheds light on its importance, emphasizing the ability to anticipate, inquire, and delve deeper into the unknowns is what sets apart the outstanding from the ordinary.Demonstrating curiosity during the hiring process can significantly impact a candidate's appeal. Mauro suggests going the extra mile by researching the company beyond the surface-level information available online. Engaging with employees or connections related to the company can provide deeper insights and demonstrate a genuine interest in the role and the organization. This proactive approach signals to the interviewer that the candidate is insightful, eager to learn, and prepared to engage with the team and its objectives on a profound level.Asking thoughtful and unconventional questions during an interview is another method to exhibit curiosity. It's not just about the questions themselves but the thought process that led to them. This indicates a candidate's ability to think critically and their desire to understand the rationale behind decisions and strategies. Such interactions reveal a person's inclination to explore and expand their knowledge base, crucial in a field where adaptation and innovation are key.Curiosity is the engine of personal and professional development, prompting individuals to question, learn, and innovate continuously.Key takeaway: Encourage and demonstrate curiosity by researching extensively, connecting with company insiders, and asking insightful questions during interviews. The goal is to showcase your proactive approach to learning and adapting. This trait not only enhances your a...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Abby Gailey, Director of Marketing Operations at Vibrent Health. Summary: Abby walks us through the complicated marketing ops world of B2B2C healthcare SaaS, emphasizing a move from sales-centric to engagement-focused martech. We dive into curiosity and continuous learning, using tools like webhooks to blend digital and physical marketing effectively. Quality assurance through negative checklists and professional growth through mentorship and communities are key themes for future proofing your martech career. Abby simplifies success in martech: blend innovation with teamwork, and balance your professional and personal life.About AbbyAbby started her career in arts administration in regional, non-profit theaters She moved over to academic conference production, where she later pivoted to a marketing and comms role and got her first taste of martechShe later worked as a Marketing Manager at Human Kinetics where she wore a variety of hatsShe moved over to Wolfram an enterprise tech company where she started as a product marketing analyst but later pivoted to marketing ops where she took ownership of Iterable and other martechToday she’s Director of Marketing Operations at Vibrent Health – the leading platform for precision medicine research – where she leads a team that works in email, SMS, push and direct mailNavigating Martech in a B2B2C SaaS ModelAbby sheds light on the unique challenges and opportunities of managing martech operations within a B2B2C business model, particularly in a sector as sensitive and regulated as healthcare research. At Vibrant Health, Abby's role straddles the line between serving business clients and engaging end users in medical studies. Her experience is notably distinct from the traditional B2B or B2C marketing roles, often dominated by discussions around lead generation, MQLs, and SQLs. Abby’s work involves partnering with prestigious institutions like the Dana Farber Cancer Institute and the National Institutes of Health, utilizing their platform to facilitate crucial medical research.The essence of her work emphasizes engagement and enablement over direct revenue generation, a departure from the revenue-centric focus seen in many marketing operations roles. This divergence stems from the regulatory landscape of healthcare, demanding precision and adherence to stringent guidelines in communications. Abby's toolkit is unique, relying less on mainstream martech solutions like Marketo or Salesforce, and more on specialized tools that cater to direct engagement through emails, SMS, and direct mail.Abby's perspective underscores a broader theme in martech: the necessity of tailoring marketing operations to the specific needs and regulations of the industry and business model. While mainstream conversations in martech often gravitate towards lead generation and sales enablement, Abby's experience highlights the importance of engagement and enablement in scenarios where direct revenue generation is not the primary focus.Key Takeaway: Abby's experience at Vibrant Health highlights the significance of customizing martech strategies to fit the unique requirements of a B2B2C business model in a regulated industry. The focus shifts from revenue generation to precise engagement and adherence to regulations, underscoring the need for specialized tools and approaches beyond the conventional sales-centric martech solutions.Driving Engagement in Highly Regulated IndustriesUnlike many marketers whose performance metrics revolve around revenue generation, Abby's focus is on engagement — a critical component in the context of medical research. This pivot away from revenue-centric metrics allows her team to concentrate on the effectiveness of communication strategies that encourage participation in health studies, which is paramount for the success of their projects.Her work involves navigating a complex landscape of HIPAA and governmental regulations, making her tasks not just about engagement, but also about compliance. Abby points out the similarities between challenges faced in healthcare marketing and those in other tightly regulated sectors like FinTech, highlighting the creative and nuanced approaches required to provide value within these constraints. Despite these challenges, Abby sees significant opportunities to impact user engagement and support the overarching goals of research and funding.Abby’s work underscores the importance of engagement in the success of healthcare research, where the actions of participants directly contribute to the progress and outcomes of studies. Her approach offers insights into the broader potential for marketing operations to support and enable core business functions beyond direct revenue generation, especially in sectors where regulatory compliance plays a significant role.Key takeaway: Marketers in regulated industries can leverage creative engagement strategies to drive participation and compliance, highlighting the value of focusing on outcomes beyond direct revenue. Abby's approach underscores the importance of tailoring marketing efforts to meet the unique challenges and opportunities of highly regulated fields.Cultivating Curiosity in Martech ProfessionalsCuriosity isn't just a trait; it's a fundamental skill for anyone navigating martech. Abby champions the idea of curiosity as the driving force behind learning and innovation in martech. She equates curiosity to the eagerness to press a button just to see what happens, a simple yet profound analogy for the exploratory mindset required in this field.This approach to technology and problem-solving isn't about reckless experimentation but embodies a deeper, more meaningful engagement with the tools and strategies at one’s disposal. Abby highlights the importance of continuous learning, whether through webinars about new features or strategies to enhance user engagement. The martech landscape is perpetually evolving, with an endless array of tools emerging. Staying ahead, or at least keeping pace, demands a proactive attitude toward learning and experimentation.Abby's method underscores an essential truth about martech: its dynamism is not a challenge but an opportunity for those willing to explore and learn. This mindset transforms potential obstacles into puzzles to be solved, making the work engaging and rewarding. Her favorite activities for skill acquisition—such as attending webinars and exploring new features—illustrate practical ways professionals can cultivate their curiosity.Key takeaway: Regularly engage with webinars and hands-on experimentation with new martech tools to sharpen your problem-solving skills and keep pace with industry innovations.The Value of Hands-On Learning in Marketing OperationsThere's a unique value placed on hands-on, experiential learning in MOPs. Abby emphasizes how on-the-job training surpasses traditional education for practical skill acquisition in the martech field. Abby’s journey, like many in our field, showcases the immense benefits of diving directly into the tools and systems that define the industry and learning through direct interaction and problem-solving.This method of learning isn't just about understanding how a particular platform operates; it extends to grasping the soup of data flows, system integrations, and the art of engaging end-users in meaningful ways. Abby highlights the importance of facing real-world challenges—those specific to a company’s vertical and the common hurdles encountered with tech systems. This hands-on approach cultivates a problem-solving mindset, essenti...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Stephen Stouffer, VP, Digital Transformation & Innovation at SaaScend.Summary: Stephen shares practical and innovative examples of combining AI tools with iPaaS tools to do things like parsing email auto-responses and subcontracting tech support questions from family members. He’s a fan of starting simple, gradually advancing to more complex solutions, all while maintaining a keen focus on ethical considerations and human interaction. We also cover growth potentials of having a stint in the agency world, is martech really for engineers and the benefits of thinking of emails like billboards on the highway. About StephenStephen started his career as a web developer before moving to a marketing analyst role where he got his first taste of marketing and sales alignment as well as marketing automationThis led him to a Marketing Automation Migration Manager role at Cheshire Impact where he managed over 25 platform migrations in less than a yearHe then worked in-house at a few software companies including iDonate, Thryv as well as FireMon – a security policy management platform where he served as Sr Manager of Marketing Operations and led all the magic behind each GTM programMost recently, Stephen’s returned to his agency roots as VP of Digital Transformation and Innovation at SaaScend – a 20-person revenue operations agencyAutomating Parental Tech Support with AIStephen's journey into automating tech support for his mom using AI showcases a blend of ingenuity and practicality. Faced with an array of tech-related questions from his mother, from resetting routers to converting recipes into different metric units, he sought a solution that could offer simple, direct answers without the clutter of search engine results. Recognizing the ease with which texting comes to his parents compared to navigating the internet, Stephen ingeniously integrated Twilio with GPT, leveraging Tray.io as the intermediary. This setup allows text messages to transform into queries for OpenAI's API, which then sends back clear, useful responses.The beauty of this system lies in its simplicity and effectiveness. By funneling questions through a familiar medium—text messaging—Stephen's mom can now access a wealth of information at her fingertips. Whether she's looking for new restaurant suggestions after moving to a new area or needs quick answers for her culinary adventures, the AI assistant provides concise, relevant information. This approach not only empowers his mother to find information independently but also maintains their daily communication, highlighting the importance of family connections amidst technological solutions.Key Takeaway: Stephen's inventive use of AI for handling his mother's tech support inquiries demonstrates the transformative potential of integrating simple technologies to solve everyday challenges. This strategy not only streamlines the process of obtaining information but also enriches the user's experience by delivering tailored answers through a preferred communication channel.Making Use of Email Auto-responses with ChatGPT and Tray.ioStephen's presentation at Dreamforce was a bold exploration of AI's potential in streamlining email management, a topic ripe with complexities and nuances. Opting for the risky path of live demos, he engaged his audience directly, inviting them to submit various types of emails into an open text field. Utilizing Tray.io as his iPaas tool of choice, these inputs were then processed through OpenAI's API to classify the emails and execute appropriate actions based on their nature—whether setting up follow-up tasks, unsubscribing contacts, or updating records in Salesforce and Pardot.This daring demonstration not only showcased the practical applications of AI in automating mundane tasks but also ignited discussions on data compliance and ethical considerations in AI usage. Stephen's session highlighted the efficiency and adaptability of AI in handling massive volumes of email responses, providing a glimpse into the future of digital communication management. The success of this live demo, buoyed by flawless internet connectivity, underscored the reliability and transformative power of AI in enhancing operational processes within the tech ecosystem.Stephen's process for integrating auto-responses from email clients into GPT is remarkably straightforward. By designating a reply-to address in your automation platform, all auto-responses are directed to a specific inbox. From there you create a forwarding rule for all incoming emails in that inbox to another address provided by Tray.io. This address acts as an endpoint, channeling the email content directly into the iPaas tool for processing. From there you can prompt ChatGPT by bringing in the payload of those individual emails.Despite the simplicity of this setup, Stephen cautions about the volume of data being handled, highlighting the importance of managing the flow to ensure accuracy in parsing and prompt building. This method not only simplifies the initial step of data collection but also underscores the intricacies involved in refining AI to perform nuanced tasks like accurately unsubscribing contacts.Key Takeaway: Stephen's Dreamforce presentation exemplified the innovative use of AI in automating useful tasks that are often left behind because of the manual nature. His live demo reinforced the potential of AI to transform mundane operational tasks into automated, intelligent workflows, setting a precedent for future applications in business and technology.Unveiling the Early Stages of AI in Marketing OperationsStephen's insights into the maturity of the martech market, particularly regarding the integration of AI into marketing operations, highlight a crucial phase of development that many professionals are navigating. His observations, shared after captivating the audience at Dreamforce, shed light on the novelty and potential of AI to revolutionize marketing practices. Stephen emphasizes that we are at the beginning of this journey, with much of the excitement and innovation concentrated in regions like North America, notably ahead of other areas such as Europe and Australia. This disparity showcases the varying pace of technological adoption across the globe, reminding us that advancements like marketing automation, now seen as standard in some parts, are just gaining traction elsewhere.Stephen points out a common misconception within the industry: the belief that AI's application is limited to those with deep technical expertise, such as data engineers. This notion, he argues, often overshadows the simpler, yet profoundly impactful uses of AI that can benefit marketers at all levels. For instance, AI's capability to generate email subject lines or assist in content ideation represents an accessible entry point for professionals seeking to leverage technology to streamline their workflows.The enthusiasm Stephen encountered post-Dreamforce, where attendees expressed astonishment at AI's capabilities, underscores a widespread underestimation of AI's current role and potential in marketing. This reaction suggests a gap between the perceived complexity of AI applications and the practical, immediate benefits they can offer. Stephen's approach to demystifying AI—highlighting straightforward applications and encouraging experimentation with basic tasks—provides a valuable roadmap for professionals looking to embrace AI without feeling overwhelmed.Through his experience, Stephen advocates for starting small with AI, focusing on automating simple tasks that can significantly enhance efficiency and creativity. This strategy not only makes ...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Jessenia Francisco, Director, Marketing Operations at Lucid. Summary: Jessenia shares her journey from nonprofit to tech, emphasizing adaptability and purpose. She tackles imposter syndrome by fostering an inclusive culture, explores the strategic use of tools like Lucidchart in her own day to day, and advocates for mindful martech selection, particularly the integration of AI, balancing innovation with practicality. Her work with Women in Revenue underscores the power of mentorship in empowering women in revenue roles, highlighting the importance of community and strategic thinking for professional and personal growth. About JesseniaJessenia started her career in Finance at Merril Lynch and Bank of AmericaShe pivoted to the non profit space joining the Association of Latino Professionals for America where she started to get in fundraising operationsShe was later recruited by the NewSchools Venture Fund and moved out to the Bay area to roll out Salesforce across the organizationShe then joined the Opportunity Fund as Development Operations Manager focused on improving the donor acquisition process and marketing automation implementationJessenia then made the mega move to Asana where she started in Sales Operations and later pivoted to Marketing Operations leading Martech Program and eventually becoming Head of Marketing AutomationToday she’s Director of Marketing Operations at Lucid Software, the creators of the popular flowchart and diagram tool; LucidchartShifting from Counting Coins to Making ChangeJessenia's career evolution from finance to the nonprofit sector was not just a job change; it was a pursuit of impact over income. She sought to make a tangible difference, moving away from the profit-focused dialogues of her finance days towards creating systemic change. This quest for purpose led her to the nonprofit world, where she found the work deeply rewarding.Reflecting on her journey, Jessenia realized she had been involved in operations long before it became a recognized field, combining her analytical skills with business operations even during her finance tenure. This foundation served her well in the nonprofit sector, allowing her to apply her skills to support community-driven initiatives. She was particularly moved by the stories of the communities she worked with, finding a profound connection to the people and the transformative changes her efforts contributed to.At NewSchools Venture Fund, Jessenia experienced the intersection of venture philanthropy and educational reform. This organization, pioneering in merging investment with educational innovation, aimed to disrupt traditional learning models. She was fascinated by project-based learning, as seen in a Napa school, where even kindergartners engaged in complex concepts like velocity and gravity. Such moments underscored the significant impact of strategic funding in education.The nonprofit sector also presented Jessenia with numerous growth opportunities, from implementing CRMs to leading marketing operations. These experiences built her expertise in sales and marketing operations, highlighting the sector's potential for rapid professional development. Jessenia appreciated the creative challenges and the "champagne taste on a beer budget" mentality, which taught her to maximize limited resources effectively.However, Jessenia also faced challenges, including under-resourcing in technology and potential career stagnation. The nonprofit world's inclination to deprioritize tech investments and the limitations in career growth posed significant hurdles. Additionally, leadership changes and political dynamics within organizations could disrupt projects and affect the effectiveness of operations work.Key Takeaway: Jessenia's narrative reveals the dual nature of nonprofit work: its capacity to fulfill a deep-seated need for purpose and impact, juxtaposed with the practical challenges of limited resources and career growth ceilings. Her journey highlights the importance of adaptability, creativity, and a steadfast focus on mission-driven work amidst these challenges.Career Leaps From Small Ponds to Big Tech OceansJessenia's career leap from niche nonprofits to tech giants like Asana and Lucid sheds light on the value and versatility of working in different organizational sizes. Initially joining Asana when it was a relatively small team of 350, she quickly dispelled the myth that smaller entities lack significance. Her experience at Asana, a company that grew from a "cult classic" to a major player, exemplifies the unique advantages of smaller companies, such as a close-knit work culture and rapid adaptability.Small companies, Jessenia notes, offer a level of intimacy and direct impact that larger organizations can struggle to match. From knowing a colleague's preference for Diet Coke to having the ability to influence business outcomes directly, these environments foster a sense of community and effectiveness. Yet, she also confronts the misconception that privilege and pedigree are absent in smaller settings. Even in a tight-knit team, backgrounds of privilege and elite education can influence dynamics, something Jessenia encountered firsthand.However, as companies grow, maintaining the essence of a smaller organization's culture poses challenges. Jessenia emphasizes the importance of meeting people and business needs as they evolve, advocating for empathy and adaptability in processes. She warns against being wedded to past solutions or technologies, stressing the need to tailor approaches to the organization's current context rather than relying on what worked elsewhere.Key Takeaway: Jessenia makes the point that smaller companies offer a richness of experience and that you will need a nuanced approach if transitioning to or scaling within larger tech companies. She highlights the importance of adaptability, empathy, and a keen understanding of the unique dynamics at play, offering insights into successfully navigating career transitions and fostering personal and professional growth in any organizational landscape.Reflections on Overcoming Imposter SyndromeJessenia tackles imposter syndrome with a unique blend of emotional intelligence and mindful reflection. Instead of reacting on impulse, she takes time to process complex ideas, valuing collaboration over solitary effort. Recognizing when to ask for help has been crucial in her journey, turning potential hurdles into learning opportunities and stronger bonds with her colleagues.Her approach to leadership focuses on empowering her team, encouraging them to confidently express their insights and take ownership of their expertise. This method not only addresses imposter syndrome but also promotes a culture where accountability and teamwork thrive. Jessenia believes in the power of vulnerability and support, showing that admitting you don't know everything can be your greatest strength.Jessenia actively seeks out communities for both professional and personal growth, especially during challenging times like the COVID-19 pandemic. By engaging with networks, she ensures no one has to face difficulties alone, emphasizing the importance of collective wisdom and shared experiences.Key Takeaway: The cornerstone of her strategy against imposter syndrome lies in fostering environments where asking questions, seeking clarity, and valuing each team member's viewpoint are encouraged. This approach not only helps combat feelings of inadequacy but also strengthens the team's cohesion and effectiveness.Cracking the MOPs Code with Lucidchart's Vis...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Josh Kim, Growth Marketing Lead at Notion. Summary: Josh elevated growth marketing from scattered tactics to a unified framework, emphasizing data-informed decisions, teamwork, and a cohesive vision. He detailed the significance of a marketer's adaptable role in a growth pod, the value of strategic martech use, and the power of experimentation in understanding user motivation. By highlighting the synergy between community, product innovation, and growth, alongside the importance of continuous learning through programs like Reforge, Josh provided a compact yet rich guide for marketers seeking sustainable growth.About JoshJosh started his career in strategic planning and analysis before moving to growth product managementHe was the second Growth PM hire at Inflection – an employment screening startup where he worked on their Conversion Optimization teamHe then moved over to Marketing Operations at Credit Karma and later became the first hire on their Growth and Engagement team where he owned implementation and testing focusing on MAUsJosh then spent 3 years at Spotify where he held different Growth Marketing roles owning different products, from Consumer to Creator and finally marketplace Most recently he’s moved over to Notion first focusing on Growth, lifecycle and product marketing and recently leading the Growth Marketing teamJosh also advises startups within the First Round Capital portfolio as an Expert in ResidenceHarnessing Growth Marketing Insights from Top Tech BrandsJosh shares invaluable lessons from his journey through renowned tech companies, spotlighting the essence of growth marketing and brand development. At the heart of his experience is a nuanced understanding of how to blend growth strategies with brand identity, creating a compelling narrative that resonates with users and drives business expansion.Starting at Credit Karma, Josh dove deep into the mechanics of marketing, where he honed his skills in crafting campaigns that not only speak to the product but do so with personality and flair. This foundational stage was crucial, laying the groundwork for his growth marketing philosophy: combining effective brand communication with a genuine connection to the audience.His tenure at Spotify offered a masterclass in synchronizing brand and growth efforts to fuel business scalability. Josh highlights the Spotify Wrapped campaign as a quintessential example of this harmony. This initiative wasn't just a branding triumph; it was a data-driven strategy that leveraged insights to engage both creators and consumers, showcasing the power of integrating brand narratives with growth objectives.At Notion, leading the growth marketing team, Josh finds himself among a cadre of exceptional talent, all united in their mission to make tool making ubiquitous. This role has underscored the importance of working on products that strike a chord with their users. Notion's success, according to Josh, lies in its ability to articulate a brand voice that appeals to a wide array of communities and individual users alike, demonstrating the profound impact of aligning product utility with user passion.Josh's reflections from his experiences at Credit Karma, Spotify, and Notion reveal a consistent theme: the significance of building a brand that not only stands out but also genuinely connects with its audience. This connection fosters an approachability and loyalty that transcends the traditional boundaries of product marketing, turning ordinary users into passionate advocates.Key Takeaway: Josh's experience underscores the critical role of brand marketing in growth. By weaving together insightful data, compelling narratives, and genuine consumer engagement, companies can cultivate a loyal user base and drive sustainable growth. This approach not only elevates the product but also cements the brand's place in the hearts and minds of its audience, proving that at the intersection of growth and brand, remarkable business success can be achieved.Evolution of Growth Marketing From Hacking to Holistic StrategyJosh reflects on the journey of growth marketing from its "growth hacking" days to its current multidisciplinary nature, offering a nuanced perspective on how the field has matured to become an integral part of strategic business development. His insights shed light on the transformation of growth tactics from quick fixes to foundational strategies rooted in data and collaborative team efforts.Growth hacking, once the buzzword of startup culture, aimed to shortcut success with clever tricks and shortcuts. Josh candidly shares his discomfort with the term now, emphasizing that true growth cannot be "hacked." Instead, it requires a solid foundation based on first principles and a deep understanding of data to drive sustainable progress. This shift signifies a move from seeking immediate gains to establishing strategies that ensure long-term success.At the core of successful growth teams today is their multidisciplinary composition. Josh advocates for the inclusion of growth marketers directly within product teams to facilitate faster, more impactful decisions. This approach, pioneered during his tenure at Credit Karma and Spotify, has proven highly effective, especially at Notion, where growth marketers play a pivotal role in most product groups. This setup fosters an environment where different perspectives converge, leading to more holistic and successful growth strategies.Josh outlines three critical elements that define a strong growth team: A shared North Star: A unified goal or metric provides clarity and focus, guiding the team through the myriad of options and strategies available.Clear roles and responsibilities: Clear delineation of roles allows team members to leverage their strengths and address weaknesses collaboratively.A commitment to strong fundamentals: Adherence to growth fundamentals, including rapid iteration and rigorous test hygiene, ensures that strategies are both effective and sustainable.Key Takeaway: The evolution of growth marketing from opportunistic "hacking" to a strategic, multidisciplinary approach highlights the importance of foundational data analysis, cross-functional collaboration, and a clear, shared vision for success. Josh's experience illustrates that the most effective growth strategies emerge from teams that integrate diverse expertise, focus on fundamental principles, and align around a common objective, paving the way for sustainable business growth.Defining the Marketer's Role in a Growth PodJosh provides a compelling narrative on tailoring the growth marketer's role within a team or "pod" to enhance effectiveness and foster innovation. His approach underscores the importance of matching a growth marketer's strengths with the team's needs, creating a dynamic synergy that propels both strategy and execution forward.At the heart of Josh's strategy is the nuanced matchmaking between the team's requirements and the growth marketer's expertise. This process begins with a thorough assessment of both the team's strengths and gaps and the growth marketer's skill set. Whether it's proficiency in paid ads, data analytics, email marketing, or lifecycle management, the goal is to identify where the growth marketer can add the most value. This bespoke alignment ensures that the growth marketer's contribution is both impactful and complementary to the team's existing capabilities.Josh's personal experience at Spotify serves as a prime example of this approach in action. Identifying his strengths in data and analytics, lifecycle email engagement, and experiment design, Josh integrated himself into a pod th...