Law School Lowballs (Ep. 534)

A listener writes in after a disappointing first round of scholarship offers. Ben and Nathan explain that initial offers are rarely a school’s best, they’re just the starting point. They reassure the listener that more and better offers are still on the way.Also in this episode:- Whether taking the January LSAT is too late to apply this cycle- Questions about Harvard’s Junior Deferral Program- A deeper look at one of the newest members of the T14: WashULinks Mentioned:Derek T. Muller ArticleStudy with our Free Plan⁠⁠Download our iOS app⁠Watch Episode 534 on YouTubeCheck out all of our “What’s the Deal With” segmentsGet caught up with our ⁠Word of the Week⁠⁠ library0:00 - Is the January LSAT Too Late?23:45 - Receiving Bad Scholarships 35:24 - When Do I Know When I’m Ready?43:05 - Follow–Up on Cheating45:18 - Harvard’s Junior Deferral Program1:07:45 - Demon Team Tracker1:09:19 - What’s the Deal with… WashU1:36:54 - Word of the Week — Propinquity

A listener writes in asking whether they should retake a 173, worried that a future attempt could be lower. Ben and Nathan explain why they should be willing to use all four remaining attempts: law schools only care about your highest score, and every point, especially for higher scores, can turn into thousands of dollars. Also in this episode:- When applicants can expect scholarship responses from law schools- Advice from Demon students who crushed the LSAT- Another brave contestant steps up for the Personal Statement Gong ShowLinks Mentioned:https://lsat.link/gradesStudy with our Free Plan⁠⁠Download our iOS app⁠Watch Episode 533 on YouTubeCheck out all of our “What’s the Deal With” segmentsGet caught up with our ⁠Word of the Week⁠⁠ library0:00 - Following the Demon Way3:30 - When Will I Hear Back on Scholarships?9:31 - Medians Above 4.0024:25 - Tips from Deparing Demons31:40 - Should I Retake a 173?36:35 - Light at the End of the Tunnel50:56 - Personal Statement Gong Show1:05:23 - Word of the Week — Anachronism

When LSAC accused a student of cheating, claiming his score jump had “Powerball odds,” Ben and Nathan dig into the details. They break down LSAC’s vague statistical claims and explain why big score increases are both possible and common for serious students. They also urge the student to document their prep to show clear evidence of progress.Also in this episode:Early 1L and 2L law firm hiring trendsA student asks whether to keep taking undergrad classes to boost their GPAShould you ask law schools for an application fee waiver?Links Mentioned:https://lsat.link/grades ⁠Study with our Free Plan⁠⁠Download our iOS app⁠Watch Episode 532 on YouTubeCheck out all of our “What’s the Deal With” segmentsGet caught up with our ⁠Word of the Week⁠⁠ library0:00 - Is It Ever Worth Paying for Law School? 23:40 - LSAC Accuses a Student of Cheating 49:20 - 1L and 2L Law Firm Hiring Trends 56:37 - Should I Keep Taking Classes? 1:03:37 - Community Colleges Offering A+ Grades 1:09:59 - Pearls vs. Turds 1:15:06 - Should You Ask for a Fee Waiver? 1:19:44 - Word of the Week — Demarcating

Since the October score release, there's been some online chatter claiming the October LSAT was unusually difficult. Nathan and Ben respond to one student's concerns by pointing to numerous Demon students who crushed the LSAT this month. They remind listeners that every test administration sparks the same rumors, but the LSAT remains consistent from one test to the next. That consistency should inspire confidence. If your practice test scores match your goal score, you’re ready for the real deal. Also in this episode:- Ben and Nathan explore community colleges awarding A-pluses- Demon students share their parting advice for LSAT success- They critique a prep company that promotes a “blind review” scoreLinks Mentioned:lsat.link/gradesNortheast Community College Course Search: https://reg-prod.ec.northeast.edu/StudentRegistrationSsb/ssb/term/termSelection?mode=searchFoothill College Course Search: https://foothill.edu/schedule/Arizona State University Universal Learner Courses: https://courses.ulc.asu.edu/ ⁠Study with our Free Plan⁠⁠Download our iOS app⁠Watch Episode 531 on YouTubeCheck out all of our “What’s the Deal With” segments.Get caught up with our ⁠Word of the Week⁠⁠ library. 0:30 - Was the October LSAT Harder?7:45 - Drill Rating System12:51 - Colleges with A-pluses25:32 - Tips From Departing Demons39:24 - Blind Review Score53:08 - Lived Experience Essay1:00:00 - Personal Statement Gong Show1:07:55 - Word of the Week — incommunicado

Nathan and Ben highlight a notable increase in law school applications per the latest LSAC reports. These numbers have nervous students rushing to apply this cycle, even though they don't have a strong LSAT score. Nathan and Ben explain that November is already late. Instead, they encourage applicants to wait and apply next year to take advantage of the best scholarship opportunities. Also in this episode:Gratitude from a listener who embraced the Demon mindsetA message from Nebraska Law about student loansA Demon student questions whether to keep going after low scoresLinks Mentioned:LSAC Volume Summary Report⁠Study with our Free Plan⁠⁠Download our iOS app⁠Watch Episode 530 on YouTubeCheck out all of our “What’s the Deal With” Segments.Get caught up with our ⁠Word of the Week⁠⁠ library. 0:30 - LSAC Volume Summary Report10:10 - Following the Demon Philosophy17:13 - When to Submit Applications29:56 - Email from a Law School on Loan Limits44:46 - Low LSAT Scores51:27 - What’s the Deal with the University of Arizona1:05:00 - Personal Statement Gong Show1:12:28 - Word of the Week - impervious

Ben and Nathan explain why applying broadly maximizes admissions and scholarship opportunities. They advise students to consider waiting another cycle to submit the strongest application possible.Also in this episode:An Ask-button question about reading each passage thoroughlyBen and Nathan’s take on law school applications that ask where else you’ve appliedAdvice on whether to waive your right to view letters of recommendationLinks Mentioned:Register for the Los Angeles LSAC Forum: http://lsac.org/lawschoolforums⁠Study with our Free plan⁠⁠Download our iOS app⁠Watch Episode 529 on YouTubeCheck out all of our “What’s the Deal With” segments.Get caught up with our ⁠Word of the Week⁠⁠ library. 0:30 - Reading Every Passage Thoroughly7:26 - “Where Have You Applied?” on Law School Apps10:18 - Is It Still Worth Applying?23:16 - Tips from Departing Demons24:53 - To Waive, or Not to Waive30:00 - What’s the Deal with Santa Clara Law?51:02 - Personal Statement Gong Show1:14:38 - Word of the Week - Guffaw

Ben and Nathan weigh in on New England Law’s conditional, full-tuition scholarships. They criticize conditional scholarships that can leave a majority of students paying full price. At most law schools, only top students (typically those already with scholarships) will secure six-figure jobs. The majority of the class foot the bill, taking out exorbitant loans while earning significantly less after graduation. Ben and Nathan encourage applicants to apply broadly and attend the right school at the right price. Later in the show, they:Break down UC Law San Francisco’s new $100 million campaignReassure a student who fears they’re progressing too slowlyReact to WashU personally contacting applicants’ recommendersLinks Mentioned:Register for the DC Law Fair Register for the New York LSAC Forum⁠Study with our Free Plan⁠⁠Download our iOS app⁠Watch Episode 528 on YouTubeCheck out all of our “What’s the Deal With” Segments.Get caught up with our ⁠Word of the Week⁠⁠ library. 0:32 - UC Law San Francisco $100 Million “Into the Future” Campaign6:00 - Trusting the Process13:48 - WashU Reaching out to Recommenders29:30 - Policies on AI39:15 - Caught Between Admissions Cycles45:20 - Pearls vs. Turds57:24 - What’s the Deal with New England Law?1:13:05 - Personal Statement Gong Show1:35:30 - Word of the Week

Ben and Nathan dig into the ABA’s decision to put Cooley Law School on probation and the broader issue of weak oversight in legal education. They also cover addenda for multiple LSAT scores, early acceptances, and retaking for better scholarships.⁠Study with our Free Plan⁠⁠Download our iOS app⁠Watch Episode 527 on YouTube0:28 - Cooley Law on Probation by the ABABen and Nathan react to the news that Cooley Law has been placed on probation by the American Bar Association for failing to meet bar passage standards. They question why the ABA continues to allow such programs to operate and highlight the risks for students who enroll in them. 24:45 - Addenda for LSAT retakesDemon student Sam asks about Michigan Law’s recommendation that applicants submit an addendum if they’ve taken the LSAT three or more times. Nathan advises against volunteering information that could hurt an application and emphasizes that only your highest score matters.37:43 - Early Application Is KeyA Redditor reports being admitted to the University of Hawaii with a generous scholarship. Ben and Nathan use the example to remind applicants that applying early gives them the best shot at admissions and scholarships. 57:09 - Retaking a 173 for ScholarshipsDemon student Jack scored a 173 and wonders whether it’s worth retaking. Ben and Nathan say yes, especially if he’s targeting top schools. They advise him to wait another cycle and keep studying to become a stronger, more competitive applicant.1:06:20 - UGA Law Lets Undergrads Skip the LSATThe University of Georgia Law School now allows its undergraduates to apply using ACT or SAT scores instead of the LSAT. Nathan argues that this limits students to only UGA Law and weakens their scholarship leverage. Ben adds that the policy ultimately does a disservice to the students.1:12:41 - Georgetown Law Group InterviewDemon student Jeremiah describes a Georgetown group interview where participants analyzed a hypothetical applicant. Ben and Nathan break down how to handle this kind of exercise: play along with the scenario, and show reasonable judgment.1:20:11 - Personal Statement Gong ShowCasey takes the stage on the Personal Statement Gong Show, chasing Sophia’s record of 34 lines.1:38:17 - Word of the Week: Dispositive“The panel directed counsel to focus oral argument on the dispositive issues.”Get caught up with our ⁠Word of the Week⁠⁠ library.

Santa Clara Law is offering every admitted student a $16,000 scholarship to align tuition with the new federal loan cap for law school borrowers. Ben and Nathan discuss whether loan caps can rein in skyrocketing tuition, share wisdom from a departing Demon user, unpack the University of Miami’s AI essay prompt, and offer reassurance to students stressed by LSAT scheduling woes.⁠Study with our Free Plan⁠⁠Download our iOS app⁠Watch Episode 526 on YouTube0:26 - Santa Clara ScholarshipsNathan and Ben react to Santa Clara Law’s new PLEDGE scholarship, which effectively lowers tuition to just under the $50,000 federal loan cap. Borrowing limits are a step in the right direction for controlling law school costs.24:04 - Tips from a Departing DemonDemon student Abigail, who improved her LSAT from 159 to 176, offers a parting piece of advice: take breaks. She encourages students to let the material settle and give themselves time to recharge. Nathan and Ben highlight her success as proof that steady, balanced preparation works.28:34 - University of Miami AI Essay PromptDemon teacher Beatriz highlights Miami Law’s unusual essay prompt that requires applicants to use generative AI. Nathan and Ben credit the school for recognizing AI’s growing role in lawyering and suggest other schools should follow suit.36:06 - Scheduling Woes Strike AgainA Reddit user vents about not finding a time slot for the October LSAT. Nathan reassures students that LSAC always opens more seats.38:21 - Letters of RecommendationTwo listeners ask for advice on letters of recommendation:Morgan debates which supervisor to ask for a letter of recommendation. Ben and Nathan recommend choosing the one who knows Morgan best.Abo wonders if decade-old letters of recommendation can still be used to apply to law schools. The guys advise Abo to get updated letters.47:51 - “Should I Stay or School I Go?”An engineer is considering law school. Ben and Nathan encourage him to research the opportunities that patent law offers, but suggest that staying in engineering might lead to better career outcomes. 57:21 - What’s the Deal with Detroit Mercy?Ben and Nathan investigate Detroit Mercy Law, which just got ABA approval for a fully online JD program. The guys explore what this approval could mean for legal education. They dig into the school’s stats and highlight its Canadian–U.S. dual degree.1:15:35 - Personal Statement Gong ShowCody takes the stage on the Personal Statement Gong Show, chasing Sophia’s record of 34 lines.1:33:39 - Word of the Week - Augur“The obligation to exercise reasonable professional skill and judgment—under either constitution—does not encompass an obligation to augur an about-face by the United States Supreme Court.”Get caught up with our ⁠Word of the Week⁠⁠ library. 

Ben and Nathan dig into a law professor’s claim that law school tuition is collapsing and explain what that really means for future students. More than 80% of students receive institutional scholarships. A strong LSAT score and GPA set you up to take advantage of the broken system rather than fall victim to it. ⁠Study with our Free Plan⁠⁠Download our iOS app⁠Watch Episode 525 on YouTube0:31 - The Law School Tuition “Collapse”Ben and Nathan discuss a blog post by Professor Paul Campos on declining law school tuition. From 2010 to 2023, average tuition dropped by $9,000 (adjusted for inflation). The guys remind listeners that only one in five students actually pays full price, and those who do are often the least financially equipped. Improving your LSAT score and GPA is the surest way to secure a scholarship and avoid paying for law school.19:27 - Tips from Departing DemonsBen and Nathan share advice from departing Demon students who crushed the August LSAT.Olivia: Never give up.Keisha: Treat your official test like your practice tests.Sophie: Don’t rush! Slow down, and the improvement will come.Andrea: Avoid law school debt by following the Demon way.33:22 - Are Optional Essays Really Optional?Susan wonders if she should submit optional essays with her applications. Ben and Nathan say: only if you have something good to add. LSAT and GPA remain the biggest factors in law school applications. For the top T14 schools, optional essays may be more useful to include. Ben also reminds Susan that her personal statement should show, not tell.41:04 - How to Structure StudyingKatherine asks how to structure her study time for maximum improvement. Ben and Nathan advise her to focus on one question at a time, prioritizing accuracy, and to mix drilling with timed sections.50:55 - Career AspirationsA listener wonders if stating a desire to become a prosecutor could hurt their application. Ben and Nathan explain that vague career goals aren’t persuasive, but if you have concrete experience, a short mention is fine.56:25 - Time for the Early Decision TalkOvadia is considering an early-decision application to a T14 school. Nathan is skeptical of her chances and warns that scholarships through early decisions are rarely full rides. They recommend applying broadly to maximize her scholarship potential and improving her LSAT if she’s serious about T14.1:10:08 - Personal Statement Gong ShowAmanda, a past contestant, writes in to thank Ben and Nathan for their feedback. Then Britt steps up as the next Gong Show contestant. In this segment, Ben and Nathan read your personal statement until they reach an unforgivable mistake—then they ring the gong. The record to beat is 34 lines, set by listener Sophia.1:23:07 - Word of the WeekThe article presented the salient facts of the dispute clearly and concisely.Get caught up with our ⁠Word of the Week⁠⁠ library.