Buying And Selling MSK Clinics - Chewing It Over with Joshua Catlett

Which dynamometer should you buy? The answer is… it depends.In this episode of Chewing It Over, Jack speaks with Dr Claire Minshull about the rapidly growing world of force measurement tech in rehab and MSK practice .We discuss:• Why “just buy the one your mate has” is risky• Sampling frequency (Hz) — and why it matters for RFD• Load capacity vs intended use• Calibration, data fidelity & measurement error• Why handheld dynamometry increases variability• External fixation and reducing clinician error• The myth of chasing normative values• Building your own in-clinic strength databaseClaire also introduces WhichDynamometer.com — a free, side-by-side comparison tool built after over a year of collecting technical specifications directly from manufacturers.This episode is essential listening for:✔️ Physiotherapists✔️ Sports rehab clinicians✔️ S&C coaches✔️ Clinic owners making capital purchases✔️ Anyone wanting to use objective data properlyForce measurement isn’t a magic bullet — but used well, it can enhance decision-making, patient confidence, and rehabilitation progression.💬 Do you use dynamometry in your clinic?What matters most to you — price, portability, sampling frequency, or something else?👍 Like | 💬 Comment | 🔔 SubscribeFor all Claire's info - getbacktosport.com

In this episode of Chewing It Over, Jack is joined by Andy Thomas, founder of Physiquip and host of the Real Health podcast, to discuss his new book Real Growth and the thinking behind it. Rather than presenting another abstract business or personal development manual, Andy explains that Real Growth is built from real conversations, real careers, and real lived experience, drawn from more than 200 long-form podcast interviews across sport, healthcare, and business .The discussion explores why “real” growth matters. Andy contrasts authentic development with surface-level metrics and performative success, arguing that growth is rooted in values such as authenticity, positivity, humility, enjoyment, and reflection. The book weaves together insights from elite sport practitioners, clinicians, business leaders, and entrepreneurs, showing how lessons learned in one domain often translate powerfully into others.Andy describes the challenge of turning hundreds of conversations into a coherent structure, ultimately creating 30 short, accessible chapters grouped into themes. Each chapter ends with reflective questions designed to help readers apply insights to their own lives and work. The format mirrors how Andy himself learns: practical, digestible, and easy to dip into.The conversation also links Real Growth to Andy’s wider work with Physiquip. He explains his belief that profitability, trust, and purpose are not opposites, but essential ingredients for sustainable healthcare businesses. Technology, he argues, is not about novelty, but about fit—supporting a clinic’s vision rather than defining it.Overall, this episode is a thoughtful reflection on growth as a human process: built through curiosity, connection, optimism, and doing meaningful work well over time.

In this episode of Chewing It Over, Jack is joined by Heather Mclellan, physiotherapist, occupational health specialist, and founder of The Return to Work Mentor, to explore a largely invisible gap in healthcare: what happens when people—especially small business owners and the self-employed—become ill or injured and have no access to occupational health support.Heather explains that while large organisations often have structured return-to-work systems, most UK workers are employed by micro-businesses with fewer than ten staff, where occupational health simply doesn’t exist. As a result, people are left to “chance it”: either staying off work longer than necessary due to fear and uncertainty, or returning too early without a plan, risking relapse or failure.The conversation becomes deeply personal as Heather shares her own experience of suffering a rare stroke caused by an underlying blood cancer. Despite decades of expertise in vocational rehabilitation, she found herself navigating illness, identity, and work with virtually no formal support. Even income protection policies failed her—not because she lacked cover, but because she hadn’t “played the game” correctly by formally stopping work and obtaining a sick note.Together, Jack and Heather unpack the emotional, cognitive, and financial strain of trying to hold a business together while managing a life-changing diagnosis. They discuss how performance, identity, and responsibility often mask distress, and why pathway-based or insurance-led systems routinely fail people at their most vulnerable.Heather introduces her “before, during, after” framework for health crises, which underpins The Return to Work Mentor. The goal is simple but powerful: to give people calm, practical guidance—direct to the individual—so they’re not left alone to navigate one of the hardest transitions of their working lives.

In this episode of Chewing It Over, Jack is joined by Rosie Sexton — osteopath, former MMA fighter, academic, and commentator — for a deep, nuanced conversation on “reasonable adjustments”, neurodivergence, and where workplace accommodation becomes ethically, practically, and emotionally complex.The discussion is sparked by a satirical MSK Mag article, Unreasonable Adjustments, written under the Glenohumeral pseudonym. Rosie explains why the piece felt frustrating and harmful to her: not because unreasonable adjustments don’t exist, but because satire can slide from critique into reinforcing stereotypes, particularly around neurodivergence. She highlights how portrayals of “comfort-seeking” or “trend-driven diagnoses” can discourage people from requesting adjustments that would genuinely allow them to work better and avoid burnout.Jack responds by situating the article within its satirical intent and wider editorial context, acknowledging both its provocations and its blind spots. A central tension emerges: how do we hold space for individual needs while also recognising system-level constraints, particularly in under-resourced environments like the NHS?Both agree that unreasonable requests can exist — but they strongly resist framing this as neurodivergent staff versus patient care. Instead, they explore how adjustments can conflict with one another, how severity and context matter, and why careful, good-faith conversation is essential. Rosie argues that dismissing needs as “trivial” is dangerous, while Jack reflects on the uncomfortable reality of triage, scarcity, and competing demands.This episode doesn’t offer neat answers. Instead, it models something rarer: a respectful, intellectually honest disagreement, showing how complex issues can be explored without shutting conversation down.

In this episode of Chewing It Over, Jack speaks with researcher and osteopath David Evans about what has actually changed in low back pain care over the past 20 years — and what hasn’t. Using data from a unique follow-up study comparing physiotherapists, osteopaths, and chiropractors, David reveals that the story is more nuanced than the usual “hands-on vs hands-off” narrative.Spinal manipulation use has fallen across all three professions — not just physios — while massage and acupuncture have increased, suggesting clinicians haven’t abandoned hands-on care, but have shifted the type of intervention used. Specific exercises have declined while general exercise has risen, aligning more closely with guideline messaging around activity and self-management. Interestingly, these trends don’t map neatly onto clinical guidelines, raising questions about what really drives practice change: pain science discourse, safety concerns, professional identity, training exposure, and system pressures all emerge as possible influences.The conversation moves beyond techniques to bigger issues in MSK care: the limits of pathway-based models, the “average effect” problem in RCTs, and why back pain research may be set up to underestimate treatment impact by measuring outcomes many months later. A major theme is the long-standing struggle to move beyond “non-specific low back pain.” David argues the future may lie in mechanism-based subgrouping (nociceptive, neuropathic, nociplastic, inflammatory) — if diagnostic precision can improve enough to meaningfully guide treatment.

In this episode of Chewing It Over, Jack is joined by Joshua Catlett, former physio, founder of Bodyset, and now founder of Verilo, to unpack the realities of buying and selling MSK clinics—and why it’s far more complex than most owners expect. Joshua explains that for many clinic owners, a sale is a once-in-a-lifetime event with huge consequences: get it right and it can be life-changing; get it wrong and you can lose money, damage reputation, or sell to the wrong buyer.A key theme is preparation and timing. Joshua warns against selling out of necessity (lease pressure, staff loss, burnout), and encourages owners to plan ahead so they can sell from a position of strength. He also challenges a common assumption: the “natural” exit via associate buyout is often more myth than reality, with fewer clinicians wanting (or able) to buy practices today due to funding constraints and higher borrowing costs .The conversation highlights why some practices aren’t truly “saleable”—often because they’re essentially a job: highly owner-dependent revenue, home-based setups, or limited transferable infrastructure. Joshua outlines the main levers that increase valuation and buyer confidence: reducing owner dependency by building a team, securing strong premises and lease terms (ideally 5+ years remaining), and lowering risk for the buyer .They also discuss the brokerage landscape, contrasting passive “listing” brokers with high-end corporate finance, and positioning Verillo in the middle: structured, strategic, and specialist. The episode closes with practical advice: prepare early, stabilise key risks, and get the right representation—because structured sales processes tend to achieve higher prices and higher completion ratesFREE GUIDE HERE

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In this episode of Chewing It Over, Jack is joined by pain coach and clinician Richmond Stace for a wide-ranging, thoughtful exploration of what pain coaching is, and why it matters for people living with persistent and chronic pain.Richmond traces the origins of pain coaching from his multidisciplinary background in nursing, pain science, and coaching, describing it not as a rigid framework but as an approach and a way of being. Central to this approach is meeting people exactly where they are, prioritising relationship, presence, and communication over protocols or prescriptive solutions. Pain coaching, he argues, is less about “fixing” pain and more about supporting meaningful, sustained change in a person’s life.A core theme of the conversation is the idea of pain as a lived experience or need state, rather than a purely structural or biological problem. Richmond challenges dominant biomedical narratives, suggesting that pain is information rather than error, and that persistent pain often reflects unmet needs, limiting beliefs, and misaligned ways of living rather than “broken” bodies. This perspective reframes recovery as a process of growth, insight, and updated understanding, rather than symptom eradication alone.The discussion explores why rigid beliefs, fear-based avoidance, and future-focused thinking can keep people stuck, and how coaching helps individuals reconnect with the present moment, their own strengths, and their capacity for change. Drawing on motivational interviewing, psychotherapy, and Eastern philosophy, Richmond emphasises that transformation happens through insight, relationship, and self-compassion, not through protocols or techniques alone.This episode is a deep, reflective conversation for clinicians and patients alike who want to rethink pain, recovery, and what it truly means to help people get better.https://richmondstace.substack.com/

In this episode of Chewing It Over, host Jack Chew speaks with Carolyn Kent, founder and director of the Women’s Football Hub, about the history, culture, health, and future of women’s football. Kent explains that her passion is rooted both in a love for the game and in a desire to address historical injustices, particularly the 1921 ban on women’s football that continues to shape attitudes today. Drawing on her background as a former player, physiotherapist, academic, and practitioner within elite football, she describes how the sport shaped her career while also exposing persistent barriers faced by women.Kent outlines the vision behind the Women’s Football Hub: a deliberately broad, multidisciplinary platform that combines sport science, health, sociology, business, and lived experience. Rather than focusing narrowly on injuries or feminism alone, the Hub aims to engage women who are “football curious” and to close widespread knowledge gaps, particularly around female health. She emphasises the importance of teamwork and diverse perspectives in building the Hub, noting that its success depends on contributors who often remain behind the scenes.The conversation also explores key differences between men’s and women’s football, including fan culture, safety, marketing strategies, and media narratives. Kent argues that women’s football should not simply replicate the men’s model, but instead develop approaches that reflect its unique audiences and values. She also addresses misconceptions around injuries, highlighting that while ACL injuries receive disproportionate attention, hamstring and MCL injuries are more common, and that inadequate training environments play a major role.Ultimately, Kent frames women’s football as a powerful social, public health, and cultural intervention. Looking ahead, she hopes to reduce participation barriers, encourage more women to play for enjoyment, and shift the conversation from education alone toward implementation and meaningful behaviour change.

Jack Chew talks all about measurement tech for the clinical space with Athan who is CEO of our partners Kinvent! He is an interesting charecter with a background in sport and engineering which led him to develop MSK specific measurement equipment!Get all your equipment for measuring here: http://landing.kinvent.com/partner-physiomatters