When Church Growth Breaks Down: Paul Dazet on Cancer, Burnout, and Rethinking Success (Part 1) | PT 126

What happens when your gender, age, and relationship status seem to speak louder than your call? In this episode, Pastor Elizabeth Bair returns to The Pastor’s Table to reflect on the quiet tension of pastoral identity, learning to relax into the authority God has given, and why she's not chasing titles, but transformation.🎙️ In This Episode:The burden of “proving yourself” in ministry as a young womanSingleness and the myth of being “incomplete” in church cultureWhen call becomes confirmation: living into the identity God speaksLearning to lead with grace when you're underestimated⏱️ Timestamps:03:00 – Proving yourself vs. resting in your call07:00 – The “triple threat”: young, single, female pastor13:00 – Finding spiritual authority in the midst of critique20:00 – When ministry fits “like a glove”27:00 – What Gen Z pastors wish older leaders knew🧭 Takeaway:God doesn’t define you by what others see as limitations. He calls you by name. That is enough.

What happens when you follow your calling, only to find yourself profoundly alone? In this episode, youth pastor Elizabeth Bair opens up about stepping into ministry at age 22, navigating life in rural Michigan, and wrestling with loneliness as a single, young woman in a church leadership role. Her honesty is both refreshing and deeply relatable for pastors who feel isolated or unseen.🎙️ In This Episode:Why Elizabeth almost ran from her callingThe hidden costs of ministry that no one talks aboutWhat to do when your prayers for community go unansweredHow Propel and community theater became lifelines of grace⏱️ Timestamps:03:00 – The surprising moment she accepted her call07:00 – Moving in with her grandmother10:00 – Confessing loneliness and finding lifelines17:00 – God’s unexpected answer through art and community23:00 – The cost of being a woman in ministry28:00 – Age bias and the challenge of pastoral authority🔗 Learn more about Propel Cohorts at https://cohorts.propelwomen.org/💡 Takeaway:Ministry can be lonely, but you are not alone. God often brings community in unexpected places, and you don’t have to carry the weight of your calling by yourself.

What if the secret to church health isn’t strategy, but vulnerability?In Part 2 of this powerful conversation, Pastor Paul Dazet opens up about pastoring through cancer, exhaustion, and loss. He found these limitations became a surprising gateway to renewal. With honesty and humility, Paul describes how letting go of performance gave birth to a church culture rooted in healing, authenticity, and radical grace.🎙️ In This Episode:The impact of pastoring a small church after leading a growing oneHow vulnerability—not charisma—transformed his congregationWhy confession and emotional honesty are spiritual practicesWhat happens when safety becomes the culture, not just the sermon⏱️ Timestamps:01:20 – Embracing limits and learning to love without pretense04:00 – Deconstruction, reconstruction, and spiritual honesty07:30 – Mystical moments and learning outside the institution10:00 – Pastoring alongside his daughter in the same town13:00 – A new kind of church culture: vulnerability and authenticity16:00 – Unexpected growth rooted in emotional safety19:00 – A theology of confession and communal healing26:00 – A beautiful mess: letting go of performance28:00 – Health limitations and spiritual clarity30:00 – Writing, Substack, and the ministry of centering prayer💡 Takeaway:Church doesn’t have to be big and perfect community. Paul’s story is a reminder that when pastors lead from a place of vulnerability and honesty, the Spirit does work no strategy could accomplish. This is a vision of ministry where weakness is not a liability, it’s the doorway to healing.

What if success in ministry is what’s breaking you?In Part 1 of this compelling conversation, Paul Dazet joins Tara Beth Leach and Mark Quanstrom to reflect on his unexpected path to faith, his climb through the ranks of church leadership, and the moment it all came undone. From a picnic table conversion to the painful fallout of cancer and burnout, Paul shares what it took to stop pretending—and start pastoring with honesty.🎙️ In This Episode:Why Paul faked his first altar call—and what finally made it realThe pressure to perform in a results-driven church cultureHow cancer forced him to reexamine his identity and callingLeaving the “dream church” to shepherd a smaller, healthier community⏱️ Timestamps:00:00 – Welcome & Paul’s early background03:00 – Growing up unchurched and marrying a pastor’s daughter06:00 – Faking a conversion to impress others09:00 – Real surrender on a roadside picnic table12:00 – Falling in love with Scripture and community16:00 – The business mindset in church leadership20:00 – Ministry growth, cancer diagnosis, and burnout25:00 – The personal toll of unresolved pain28:00 – Leaving behind platform for presence💡 Takeaway:Paul’s story is a mirror for every pastor who has felt the gap between ministry success and soul health. Sometimes healing begins not in doing more—but in finally being honest about what’s breaking.

Read Tara Beth's substack here: https://substack.com/home/post/p-163159975 How do pastors hold space when words fall short?In this deeply personal and reflective episode, Tara Beth Leach reads from her Substack essay, “The Sacred Threshold That is Hospice,” sharing the journey of walking with her mother through dementia and hospice. Joined by co-host Mark Quanstrom, they unpack the theology of presence, the temptation to “preach things pretty,” and the grace found in simply showing up when life unravels.🎙️ In This Episode:Tara Beth reads her powerful essay on hospice and her mother’s declineMark and Tara Beth reflect on the role of pastoral presence in seasons of sorrowThe danger of escapist theology and the invitation to stay with sufferingHow the incarnation shapes our understanding of holy moments at the end of life⏱️ Timestamps:00:00 – Introduction to the episode01:08 – Tara Beth reads “The Sacred Threshold That is Hospice”09:10 – Reflection on writing, presence, and resisting tidy theology12:00 – How pastoral care sanctifies suffering18:00 – Blessing, the Beatitudes, and ministry at the margins21:00 – A story about Jack Puckett and a glimpse of heaven24:00 – Prayers, hospice, and moments of clarity28:00 – Grace alone and the stripping away of self-sufficiency31:00 – Final reflections on presence, sorrow, and God’s mercy💡 Takeaway:The holiest moments in ministry are often quiet, unspectacular, and full of grief. But in the hospice room, at the deathbed, and in seasons of deep loss, pastors embody the presence of Christ—not by fixing, but by staying. This is the sacred gift of showing up.

What happens when God leads you somewhere you never imagined—but you say yes anyway? In Part 3, Pastor Ivan Ramirez reflects on his transition from the city streets of Chicago to leading a small-town church in Wisconsin. With humor, vulnerability, and pastoral wisdom, Ivan shares how cultural challenges, ministry mergers, and personal growth have shaped his approach to leadership—and why “let’s see where this goes” has become his life mantra. 🎙️ In This Episode: Why stepping away from ministry became the turning point The unlikely path that led Ivan to Burlington, Wisconsin Navigating cultural differences and subtle bias as a Hispanic pastor in a white rural context How healing, humility, and faithful presence create space for healthy ministry ⏱️ Timestamps: 03:00 — Leaving ministry and finding rest 07:00 — Preaching on July 4 and falling in love with a new church 10:00 — Merging two congregations and selling a building in two days 15:00 — Pastoring as the only Hispanic leader in a white community 19:00 — Confidence, calling, and finishing seminary after 20 years 22:00 — Letting go of “going home” and serving where God sends 27:00 — The wisdom of “let’s see where this goes” 💡 Takeaway: You don’t have to know the outcome to be obedient. Ivan’s story reminds us that when we trust God enough to take the next step—even without a plan—He writes stories we never could have imagined.

What happens when freedom finds you before a courtroom does? In Part 2 of this gripping conversation, Pastor Ivan Ramirez shares how he left gang life, survived trial, and discovered God’s call through unlikely mentors, a Moody dorm room, and a courtroom bench. From early ministry mistakes to a doctoral degree, Ivan’s story is one of grace that keeps showing up. 🎙️ In This Episode: The unexpected grace that led Ivan out of the gang—and into ministry Navigating life after jail: roommates, youth ministry, and cereal-fueled discipleship Why academic struggle didn’t disqualify his calling How pastoring a small church taught him who the gospel is really for ⏱️ Timestamps: 02:30 — Choosing Jesus over gang life… again 06:15 — Transferred to the Christian wing 10:00 — Released from jail and taken in by a youth pastor 13:00 — From GED to Moody Bible Institute 17:30 — Facing trial while attending Bible college 21:00 — Not guilty verdict—and the cost for others 25:00 — Struggling academically but thriving spiritually 28:00 — Learning to pastor without making “little Ivans” 💡 Takeaway: You don’t need polish to be called. Ivan’s story reminds us that the gospel forms pastors not just through pulpits, but through scars, failures, and second chances. Freedom doesn’t always come in the ways we expect—but it always comes with grace.

How does a gang-involved teenager from Chicago become a pastor in Wisconsin?  In Part 1 of this gripping conversation, Ivan Ramirez shares his remarkable story of searching for belonging, spiraling into despair, and encountering Jesus while facing a murder charge in solitary confinement. What begins as a tale of survival becomes a testimony of grace. 🎙️ In This Episode: Growing up without church but aware of God The loneliness and boredom that led Ivan into gang life Dropping out of school—twice—and wrestling with purpose Facing suicidal thoughts and crying out to God Getting arrested for a crime he didn’t commit—and finding freedom behind bars ⏱️ Timestamps: 03:00 — Ivan’s childhood in Little Village, Chicago 07:00 — The gang lifestyle and dropping out of school 12:00 — Searching for meaning through partying and friendships 16:00 — Depression, suicidal thoughts, and a near-fatal moment 20:00 — Arrested and falsely charged with murder 23:00 — Solitary confinement and discovering the Bible 25:00 — Accepting Christ in a jailhouse chapel 28:00 — The danger of leaving gang life—and the grace that followed 💡 Takeaway: God often shows up in the places we least expect—jail cells, lonely apartments, and broken stories. Ivan’s journey reminds us that no one is beyond reach, and freedom can begin even when the doors are still locked.

Pastor Scott Moore returns for a vulnerable, soul-level conversation on what happened after his breaking point. From a life-changing fishing trip with strangers to a tearful reconnection with his family and church, Scott reflects on the slow work of reintegration. With honesty about the setbacks and sacred practices that help him stay tethered, this episode is a call to resist isolation, embrace confession, and fight the subtle seduction of success metrics. 🎙️ In This Episode: Healing through honesty and sacred vulnerability Creating relational spaces where confession is normal Letting go of success metrics as identity markers How to stay rooted when performance whispers loudest ⏱️ Timestamps: 02:20 — What started to shift: "I’m tired of lying." 06:15 — A pastor’s fishing trip—and honest friendship 09:42 — Returning to church, scared but honest 14:00 — Leading without hiding 18:40 — Why metrics nearly broke Scott’s sense of self 22:33 — The WhatsApp group and the gift of confession 28:14 — Soteriology, scars, and staying tethered 32:50 — Closing reflections on hope and hard-won identity 💡 Takeaway: You don’t have to pretend you’re okay to keep going. The road back is rarely clean or linear—but confession, connection, and calling are still possible on the other side of burnout.

What happens when ministry feels less like a calling and more like survival? In this raw and courageous conversation, Scott Moore shares his story of stepping into a conflicted congregation, facing impossible expectations, and slowly losing himself in the isolation of unacknowledged burnout. 🎙️ In This Episode: How Scott moved from a thriving ministry to a pastor-killing church The early warning signs of burnout he didn’t recognize Why loyalty to "toughing it out" can deepen the isolation What it feels like to lose hope quietly—while still preaching every Sunday ⏱️ Timestamps: 03:00 — Stepping into conflict without knowing it 07:00 — No honeymoon and immediate resistance 12:00 — Internalizing failure and the slow onset of despair 17:00 — Five years of secret depression 24:00 — A surprising invitation to Wyoming—and the first crack of hope