271. TNE TALKS: Navigating Faith in Modern and Postmodern Worlds // Myron Penner, PhD

Summary In this episode, Tim and April respond to the elder statement made by Gateway Church regarding the allegations against their lead pastor, Robert Morris. They express disappointment with the statement and discuss the lack of accountability and transparency. They highlight the need for Gateway Church to take concrete actions to address the harm caused and support the survivors. Tim and April also criticize the church's focus on the show and the institution rather than the well-being of the victims. They call for a halt in services, a thorough investigation, and financial reparations for the survivors. The conversation discusses the response of Gateway Church to the allegations against their former lead pastor, Robert Morris, who was accused of molesting a 12-year-old girl. The hosts criticize the church's lack of accountability and deflection of responsibility. They highlight the problematic mindset of some evangelical churches that prioritize success and money over addressing systemic issues and protecting victims. The conversation also touches on the comparison between leaving a church due to disappointment and leaving a church due to abuse, as well as the interconnectedness of charismatic leaders and the need for systemic change. Takeaways Gateway Church's elder statement regarding the allegations against Robert Morris lacked accountability and transparency. Concrete actions, such as halting services and conducting a thorough investigation, are necessary to address the harm caused and support the survivors. The focus on the show and the institution rather than the well-being of the victims is problematic. Financial reparations should be considered to acknowledge the decades of harm and trauma experienced by the survivors. Some evangelical churches prioritize success and money over addressing systemic issues and protecting victims. The response of Gateway Church to the allegations against Robert Morris lacked accountability and deflected responsibility. Leaving a church due to disappointment is not the same as leaving a church due to abuse. Charismatic leaders are often interconnected and need to be held accountable for their actions. Systemic change is necessary to address the issues within evangelical culture. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 03:16 Allegations against Robert Morris 08:16 Lack of Accountability and Transparency 12:07 The Resignation of Robert Morris 13:36 Pattern of Similar Incidents 20:11 Frustration with the Church's Handling 21:20 Call for Financial Reparations 21:45 The Problematic Response of Gateway Church 22:42 The Prioritization of Success and Money in Evangelical Culture 23:24 Leaving Church: Disappointment vs. Abuse 25:17 The Interconnectedness of Charismatic Leaders 27:06 The Need for Systemic Change in Evangelical Culture Gateway's Elder Response Video Read the Initial Article on Robert Morris Robert's Full Response Video ______________ If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Get Tickets to Beer Camp (PROMO: TNEHOBBIT) Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube @thenewevangelicals The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary In this conversation, Representative James Talarico and Tim Whitaker discuss topics such as Christian nationalism, faith, and navigating political differences. Talarico shares his background growing up in a conservative Christian home but attending a church that emphasized love for all people. He explains how his faith has informed his political views and motivated him to run for office. The conversation also touches on the importance of maintaining a spiritual foundation in politics, finding common ground with ideological opponents, and the challenges of addressing issues like Christian nationalism. In this conversation, Tim Whitaker and James Talarico discuss the importance of engaging in conversations to advocate for marginalized communities, the need for affordable healthcare and paid family leave, the role of right-wing media in spreading misinformation and fear, the threat of Christian nationalism, and the actions individuals can take to make a difference. Takeaways Growing up in a conservative Christian home, Representative James Talarico attended a church that emphasized love for all people, regardless of race, class, gender, or sexual orientation. Talarico's faith has informed his political views and motivated him to run for office, with a focus on dismantling unjust systems and advocating for the well-being of all constituents. Maintaining a spiritual foundation is crucial in navigating the challenges of politics, helping to control emotions and channel anger into productive and loving actions. Finding common ground with ideological opponents is possible through personal connections and shared values, even while maintaining clear policy differences. Addressing issues like Christian nationalism requires resisting harmful ideas and systems while avoiding personal attacks, focusing on the moral contrast and expanding the circle of concern for all people. Engaging in conversations and advocating for marginalized communities is crucial, as it relieves the burden on those directly affected by discriminatory policies. Affordable healthcare and paid family leave are not radical ideas, but necessary measures to support families and ensure their well-being. Right-wing media plays a significant role in spreading misinformation and fear, often prioritizing profit over truth. Christian nationalism poses a threat to democracy and the values of equality and justice. Individuals can make a difference by staying informed, supporting organizations working for change, and actively participating in the democratic process. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background 09:29 Understanding Christian Nationalism 16:08 The Role of Faith in Politics 24:27 Addressing Christian Nationalism and Expanding the Circle of Concern 26:51 Affordable Healthcare and Paid Family Leave 29:33 Finding Common Ground 33:11 The Influence of Right-Wing Media 36:06 The Threat of Christian Nationalism 45:57 Taking Action for Change Jame's Website James on Twitter James on TikTok if you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Get Tickets to Beer Camp (PROMO: TNEHOBBIT) Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube @thenewevangelicals The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary The conversation discusses the technical difficulties faced before the recording and the humorous incidents that occurred. It then delves into the scandal surrounding Robert Morris and Gateway Church, where allegations of sexual abuse have been made against Morris. The conversation highlights the contradictory statements made by Gateway Church and the need for a thorough investigation. It also addresses the toxic culture within evangelical churches, the impact of purity culture, and the importance of holding leaders accountable. Cindy, the alleged victim, releases a statement expressing her disappointment in the church's response and calling for justice and reform. In this conversation, Tim and April discuss the hypocrisy and lack of accountability within certain religious circles, particularly in relation to the handling of sexual abuse allegations. They highlight the case of Robert Morris, a megachurch pastor who platformed Mark Driscoll, despite Driscoll's history of abusive behavior. They also criticize the selective outrage and silence of certain evangelical influencers, such as Meg Basham and Allie Stuckey, who condemn Morris but defend John MacArthur, despite his involvement in covering up child abuse within his own church. The conversation emphasizes the need for accountability and the dismantling of toxic systems within religious institutions. Takeaways Technical difficulties can occur before a recording, but it is important to persevere and find solutions. The scandal surrounding Robert Morris and Gateway Church highlights the need for thorough investigations and accountability within religious institutions. Toxic culture and purity culture within evangelical churches contribute to the protection of abusive leaders and the blaming of victims. Victims of abuse should be supported and encouraged to come forward, and justice and reform should be pursued. The statements made by Gateway Church and the alleged victim, Cindy, reveal the need for transparency and genuine repentance. There is a lack of accountability and hypocrisy within certain religious circles when it comes to handling sexual abuse allegations. Some religious leaders and influencers selectively condemn certain individuals while defending others, based on their theological alignment or personal biases. The focus should be on protecting victims and holding abusers accountable, rather than protecting the reputation of religious institutions. Toxic systems within religious institutions need to be dismantled in order to prioritize the well-being and safety of individuals. Accountability and transparency are essential in creating a healthy and safe environment within religious communities. Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary In this episode, Tim discusses the recent allegations against Robert Morris, the lead pastor of Gateway Church, who admitted to engaging in inappropriate sexual behavior with a 12-year-old girl when he was in his early 20s. Tim criticizes the response from Gateway Church and highlights the systemic issues within the evangelical church that enable and protect abusive pastors. He also addresses the harmful narratives propagated by conservative media about the supposed dangers of drag queen story hour, while ignoring the real threat of sexual abuse within churches. Tim calls for accountability and a dismantling of the toxic structures within American evangelicalism. Takeaways The allegations against Robert Morris are serious and have not been disputed by Gateway Church or Morris himself. The response from Gateway Church and the language used in their statement minimizes the gravity of Morris' actions and prioritizes his healing journey over the survivor's experience. The American evangelical church operates as a corporate entity focused on growth and spectacle, often prioritizing the protection of the organization over the well-being of survivors. The evangelical church needs to address the systemic issues that enable and protect abusive pastors rather than blaming individuals or dismissing the problem. Conservative media's focus on supposed threats outside of the church, like drag queen story hour, distracts from the real issue of sexual abuse within churches. The current structures of American evangelicalism need to be dismantled in order to restore the witness of Christianity and prioritize truth, character, and integrity. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Content Warning 00:41 Unpacking the Allegations Against Robert Morris 10:27 The Toxicity of American Evangelicalism 24:53 The Need for Church Accountability 26:19 Dismantling the Structures of Evangelicalism Read the Article on Robert Morris Robert's Full Response Video ______________ If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Get Tickets to Beer Camp (PROMO: TNEHOBBIT) Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube @thenewevangelicals The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary The conversation with Myron Penner this week explores the transition from pre-modern to modern to postmodern eras, focusing on the relationship between faith, reason, and truth. It delves into the intellectual history of these movements, the impact of modernity on theology, and the deconstruction of texts in the postmodern context.  Takeaways The transition from pre-modern to modern to postmodern eras has had a significant impact on the relationship between faith, reason, and truth. The conversation explores the intellectual history of these movements, shedding light on the impact of modernity on theology and the deconstruction of texts in the postmodern context. The discussion provides insights into the interpretation of texts, the correspondence theory of truth, and the philosophical frameworks of modernity and postmodernity. Interpreting biblical texts involves considering historical context, author status, and social factors, challenging the traditional focus on authorial intent. The conversation highlights the tension between modernist and postmodernist perspectives in interpreting Christian beliefs, emphasizing the need for intellectual humility and open dialogue. The evolution of Christian beliefs and the dynamic nature of theological interpretations are explored, challenging the notion of a static, monolithic view of historic orthodox Christianity. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Faith, Reason, and Truth 06:53 The Impact of Modernity on Theology and Truth 29:42 Navigating the Complexity of Biblical Interpretation 53:36 The Interplay of Modernist and Postmodernist Perspectives in Christian Beliefs 58:07 The Evolution and Dynamic Nature of Christian Beliefs If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Get Tickets to Beer Camp (PROMO: TNEHOBBIT) Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube @thenewevangelicals The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary In this conversation, Tim and Janice discuss various topics, including the conviction of Donald Trump, the misuse of religious language in politics, and the role of evangelical leaders. They also touch on the hypocrisy of some evangelical leaders and the need for skepticism and critical thinking. The conversation highlights the manipulation of religious beliefs for political gain and the importance of understanding the historical context of political decisions. In this part of the conversation, Tim and Janice discuss the themes of white evangelicalism, the failure of the democratic process, and the hypocrisy of Trump's supporters. They explore the idea that America is in decline and that evangelicalism has failed the test of staying true to its values. They also touch on the conviction of Hunter Biden and the response from both sides of the political spectrum. In this final part of the conversation, Tim discusses the use of memes and images to attack political opponents, particularly in the context of Hunter Biden and Donald Trump. He highlights the hypocrisy of Trump supporters who find such memes acceptable when they target Trump, but not when they target Hunter Biden. Tim also criticizes the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) for its regressive views on women's roles and IVF, and expresses his frustration with the continued platforming of Carl Lentz. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the love and acceptance of queer neighbors, and the control and ownership mentality of some evangelical Christians. Takeaways The conviction of Donald Trump is discussed, with the hosts highlighting the manipulation of religious language in politics and the misuse of biblical values. The conversation emphasizes the need for skepticism and critical thinking when evaluating the actions and statements of evangelical leaders. The hosts reflect on the historical context of political decisions and the importance of understanding the impact of past events on current issues. The conversation raises questions about the sincerity of some evangelical leaders and their motivations for aligning with political figures. White evangelicalism has failed to stay true to its values and has embraced hypocrisy. America is in decline and is facing serious challenges. The conviction of Hunter Biden highlights the importance of respecting the judicial process. The political divide in America is deepening, with both sides often failing to see the flaws in their own arguments. The use of memes and images to attack political opponents is hypocritical and lacks logical consistency. The Southern Baptist Convention's focus on regressive views on women's roles and opposition to IVF is misguided and out of touch. The continued platforming of Carl Lentz raises questions about accountability and genuine repentance. Love and acceptance of queer neighbors should be a fundamental aspect of Christian faith. The control and ownership mentality of some evangelical Christians hinders progress and understanding. Janice's Link Tree Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary In this conversation, Tim and Father Jim Gretzky discuss various topics related to Catholicism and the role of priests and bishops. They touch on issues such as the traditional Latin mass, Catholic teachings on abortion and IVF, and the role of priests in parish communities. They also discuss the COVID-19 pandemic and its impact on the Catholic Church. Throughout the conversation, they highlight the importance of understanding the complexities of Catholicism and avoiding generalizations or false judgments. In this conversation, Tim and Father Jim analyze a speech given by NFL player Harrison Butker at Benedictine College. They discuss the recurring theme of longing for a mythological past and the connection between Christian nationalism and the desire to return to a privileged time. They also explore the traditional Catholic view of marriage and the importance of adhering to Catholic traditions. Father Jim provides insights into the Catholic perspective on issues such as birth control and the role of men in society. They highlight the need for nuance and understanding in discussions about faith and the dangers of fundamentalism. Takeaways Understanding the complexities of Catholicism is important to avoid generalizations or false judgments. The role of priests and bishops in the Catholic Church is multifaceted and requires a deep understanding of theology and pastoral care. The COVID-19 pandemic presented challenges for the Catholic Church, but decisions made by bishops and priests were often based on public health guidelines and the safety of parishioners. Recognizing the authority of bishops and priests is essential in understanding the role they play in leading the Church and administering the sacraments. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Overview 02:03 Exploring the Complexities of Catholicism 10:23 The Role of Priests and Bishops in the Catholic Church 15:07 Understanding Catholic Teachings on Abortion 25:22 The Importance of Charity and Staying in One's Lane 30:27 Avoiding Generalizations and False Judgments 38:29 The Role of Priests and Bishops in Parish Communities 47:00 Reflecting on Past and Present Leadership in the Catholic Church 48:59 Longing for a Mythological Past 52:18 The Traditional Catholic View of Marriage 59:47 God-Centered Pride and Glorifying Him 01:09:22 The Catholic View of Marriage 01:17:32 The Importance of Tradition in Worship 01:25:26 Surrounding Yourself with People Who Sharpen You 01:31:49 The Catholic Position on Birth Control James Martin’s Books: The Jesuit Guide to (Almost) Everything: A Spirituality for Real Life My Life with the Saints In Good Company Greg Boyle’s Books: Tattoos on the Heart Barking to the Choir The Whole Language Greg Boyle’s webpage If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Get Tickets to Beer Camp (PROMO: TNEHOBBIT) Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube @thenewevangelicals The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kester Brewin author of God Like: A 500-Year History of Artificial Intelligence in Myths, Machines, Monsters joins Tim to talk about how AI is changing how we understand reality and how theology can be used to use new technologies in wise ways. If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Get Tickets to Beer Camp (PROMO: TNEHOBBIT) Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Watch this conversation on YouTube - @thenewevangelicals The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summary In this episode, Tim, April, and Andrew discuss Christian nationalism and its impact on various social issues. They explore the definition of Christian nationalism and its desire to see a specific expression of Christianity fused with American civic life. They also examine the association between Christian nationalism and opposition to same-sex marriage, as well as the belief in traditional social arrangements and hierarchies. The conversation highlights the slow liberalization of views on same-sex marriage among those who embrace Christian nationalism. The discussion also touches on the theological challenges faced by Christian nationalists when it comes to accepting queer relationships and the rejection of contraception access by some Republicans. In this conversation, Tim and April discuss the themes of white Christian nationalism, the intersection of religion and race, and the dangers of Christian nationalist ideology. They highlight the importance of understanding the motivations and beliefs of Christian nationalists, as well as the potential consequences if their ideology gains more power and influence in the United States. The conversation also touches on the hypocrisy and double standards of conservative pundits and the need for people to stay informed and speak out against Christian nationalism. Takeaways Christian nationalism seeks to fuse a specific expression of Christianity with American civic life and desires to see the government defend and preserve that cultural framework. Those who strongly embrace Christian nationalism are more likely to oppose same-sex marriage and support the right of small business owners to refuse service to gay or lesbian people. While there has been a liberalization of views on same-sex marriage among all Americans, those who embrace Christian nationalism have been slower to change their stance. Christian nationalism's belief in traditional social arrangements and hierarchies poses theological challenges when it comes to accepting queer relationships. Some Republicans' rejection of contraception access aligns with the belief in a rightly ordered society that involves a man and a woman having many children. White Christian nationalism is a dangerous ideology that seeks to maintain white privilege and power in the United States. Christian nationalism is intertwined with white supremacy and seeks to enforce a specific vision of America based on Christian values. Understanding the motivations and beliefs of Christian nationalists is crucial in order to counter their influence and protect marginalized communities. Conservative pundits often engage in hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to supporting political figures and ideologies. It is important for individuals to stay informed about the dangers of Christian nationalism and to speak out against it in order to protect democracy and promote equality. Check out our website for merch, educational materials, and how to join our community! If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tim breaks down why for Evangelicals, Trump being a convicted felon will not affect their loyalty for him. If you'd like to support our work, you can DONATE here! Get Tickets to Beer Camp (PROMO: TNEHOBBIT) Follow Us On Instagram @thenewevangelicals  Subscribe On YouTube The New Evangelicals exists to support those who are tired of how evangelical church has been done before and want to see an authentic faith lived out with Jesus at the center. We are committed to building a caring community that emulates the ways of Jesus by reclaiming the evangelical tradition and embracing values that build a better way forward. If you’ve been marginalized by your faith, you are welcome here. We’ve built an empathetic and inclusive space that encourages authentic conversations, connections and faith. Whether you consider yourself a Christian, an exvangelical, someone who's questioning your faith, or someone who's left the faith entirely, you are welcome here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices