Francis Fukuyama on War in the Middle East

Martin Wolf is Associate Editor and Chief Economics Commentator at the Financial Times, London. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Martin Wolf discuss Donald Trump’s “big, beautiful bill,” the impact it will have on Trump’s supporters, and whether the United States is facing a looming economic crisis. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dean Spears and Michael Geruso are economists, demographers, and associate professors at the University of Texas at Austin. Their book After the Spike: Population, Progress, and the Case for People is out on July 8, 2025. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk, Dean Spears and Michael Geruso explore whether a higher population really impacts climate change, why more people on the planet means more geniuses, and how we can avoid depopulation. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Luke Tryl is the Executive Director of More in Common UK, where he leads the organization’s work on public opinion. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Luke Tryl discuss where Keir Starmer has gone wrong, the reasons behind the rise of Reform UK, and whether time’s up for the Conservative Party. Note: This conversation was recorded on June 6, 2025. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Irshad Manji also discuss how to have dialogue with ideological opponents. Irshad Manji is the founder of Moral Courage College, which equips people worldwide to turn heated issues into healthy conversations and sustained teamwork. Her latest book is Don’t Label Me: How to Do Diversity Without Inflaming the Culture Wars. In this week’s episode, Yascha Mounk and Irshad Manji discuss how it feels to become a U.S. citizen during turbulent times, how to have conversations about controversial topics without being canceled, and how to resist the temptation of being right about everything. Polarization is at an all-time high. It can feel daunting—perhaps even misguided—to engage in meaningful dialogue with those holding starkly different views. What does it mean to champion pluralism in such a moment? Persuasion’s series on the future of pluralism, generously supported by the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, features longform essays and podcast interviews that make the case for civic dialogue and highlight inspiring examples of it in practice. You can find the full series here. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Francis Fukuyama is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at Stanford University. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. He is also the author of the “Frankly Fukuyama” column, carried forward from American Purpose, at Persuasion. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Francis Fukuyama discuss what the U.S. strikes in Iran mean for global and domestic politics, to what extent Israel is risking its relationship with the United States, and why we should be concerned about AI. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Peter Hessler describe how China has changed over the last 30 years–and where it might go next. For more than a quarter of a century, Peter Hessler has been a staff writer for the New Yorker. In 1996, he joined the Peace Corps and taught English language and literature to college students in Fuling, a small city on the Yangtze River. In 2019, Hessler returned to China, teaching at Sichuan University during the pandemic. His most recent book, Other Rivers (2024), is about his time in Sichuan.  In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Peter Hessler discuss Peter’s experiences as a teacher in China in the 1990s and in recent years, how his students have changed, and what he thinks the United States could learn from China. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Helen Lewis is a staff writer at The Atlantic who writes about politics and culture. Her latest book, The Genius Myth: A Curious History of a Dangerous Idea, is out now. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Helen Lewis explore what our ideas of genius mean, whether you need to die young to be considered one—and why no one cares about geniuses with boring lives. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Lenore Skenazy discuss why kids should take risks.  After letting her 9-year-old ride the New York City subway alone—and creating a media firestorm—Lenore Skenazy wrote the book, “Free-Range Kids.” Lenore is also a co-founder of Let Grow. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Lenore Skenazy explore why parents are reluctant to let their children take risks, how unsupervised activities help children learn, and how to embrace giving your kids independence. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Shashank Joshi is Defence Editor at The Economist, where he writes on a wide range of national security, defence and intelligence issues. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Shashank Joshi discuss how technology is changing warfare, the latest developments in Ukraine, and the future of Gaza. Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Mark Lynas on how to avoid armageddon. Mark Lynas is an author, campaigner and speaker. He is science advisor with the Climate Vulnerable Forum and policy lead with WePlanet, a pro-science environmental advocacy network active in over 20 countries. His latest book is Six Minutes to Winter: Nuclear War and How to Avoid It.  In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Mark Lynas discuss how likely a nuclear war is, what a nuclear winter would look like, and how to avoid it. Podcast production by Jack Shields and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple⁠ | ⁠Google⁠ X: ⁠@Yascha_Mounk⁠ & ⁠@JoinPersuasion⁠ YouTube: ⁠Yascha Mounk⁠, ⁠Persuasion⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices