1 Year After Leaving the Law: Looking Back with Collab Member Jamie Spannhake

In today’s podcast episode, Sarah chats with one of her one-on-one clients, Ann Marie Cowdrey. She has had a lot of experience working for regional and international law firms throughout her career. She hit a rough patch and thought it was time for a chance, so she started working with Sarah. Today, she’s sharing her experience in law and how she flipped things around. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/226  

Many lawyers find themselves asking, “Am I depressed, or am I burnt out?” This comes up when they are thinking about leaving the law, and it’s not a new topic on the podcast. In the episode where Sarah spoke to Ilona Salmons, they did a deep dive into burnout and what it is. Mental health is a common topic brought up in the Former Lawyer community, and many lawyers deal with misery by intellectualizing things. Today, Sarah is revisiting this topic and sharing a few important thoughts. Sarah often talks about therapy on the podcast. It is extremely helpful if you feel burned out or depressed. Engage a qualified mental health therapist to work with. They can help you evaluate what’s going on in your mind in your life with some objectivity and clinical expertise.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/225  

On today’s podcast episode, Sarah chats with Lynley Ogilvie about her career pivot. She left her job as a lawyer to become a landscape designer. The conversation was exciting, and her path was unique compared to other guests on the podcast. Lynley lives just outside of Washington, DC, and she has her own landscape design firm.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/224  

Today’s podcast topic was sparked by a recent call for the Guided Track Sarah is facilitating this spring. This program is designed to assist lawyers in navigating their career paths and offers a safe space for self-reflection. It helps individuals determine if leaving the law is the right choice for them and guides them toward their next steps. The program fosters a close-knit community where participants can share their experiences, exchange ideas, and support each other through the process, providing a sense of camaraderie and accountability. The discussion centered around a common yet often unspoken experience of guilt when one doesn’t enjoy being a lawyer. This feeling of guilt can be pervasive, making one feel like they’re complaining, even when they perceive their situation to be better than others. Sarah has talked about this before on the podcast, so obviously, it’s a topic that comes up often and is important to re-address.

Today’s podcast episode focuses on what it’s like to work in law with chronic illnesses. Emily Whelden is a former lawyer who now works at Dixon Life Coaching, mostly with clients have ADHD and other chronic illnesses. Many podcast listeners have requested this conversation, and today it's happening. She is chatting with Sarah about her experience leaving the law and the subject of chronic illnesses.  See show notes at formerlawyer.com/222  

Lawyers expect to follow a perfectly laid-out path. It’s natural. When the next step in any journey isn’t clear, it feels like something is wrong. In today’s podcast episode, Sarah talks about moments when you feel like you’re having an existential crisis, but that doesn’t mean you are doing anything wrong.  When you feel like you’re having an existential crisis, it might feel like you’re in a vacuum. If you want to join a group of like-minded individuals, join the Collab. Sarah created this group to make it easier to navigate the process and find community. It doesn’t mean you won’t still feel lost, but you’ll have others that understand what you’re going through.  It’s normal to feel like you’re having an existential crisis when working through the process of leaving the law. You are not doing anything wrong, and you aren’t alone. Keep going and seek out some people to talk to. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/221  

On today’s podcast, Sarah is chatting with Adriana Paris. Adriana stopped practicing law after ten years and moved into a new role at a law firm. She is the director of professional development and legal recruiting for a regional law firm with about 100 lawyers. In addition, she has a coaching business on the side where she helps lawyers with personal productivity, which helps them create time and space for themselves.    See show notes at formerlawyer.com/182  

Today’s podcast episode brings back a previous guest to update listeners. Aliza Shatzman previously appeared to talk with Sarah about The Legal Accountability Project. She co-founded this project based on a nightmare clerkship scenario she faced and wanted to help lawyers find recourse if they find themselves in this situation.  She is sharing where things are today and the initiatives they’ve made progress on in the last year. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/219  

After leaving law, former lawyers follow many career paths depending on their interests and skills. Today’s podcast episode features a conversation with Ashley Carlisle, the Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) of HyperDraft. If you are considering marketing as an option after leaving the law, this podcast has some great information for you. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/218  

Narcissism is a word that is often associated with lawyers for many reasons. On today’s podcast episode, Sarah is chatting with Kelcey Baker about the fact that many lawyers have relationships with narcissists. Narcissism is a topic that more people are discussing now, and part of the reason is that there is more awareness and understanding of what it is. This episode includes a conversation about those who have grown up in a narcissistic daily or had a romantic or platonic relationship with a narcissist and how that might set them up for a later experience of functioning in a narcissistic system, like a law firm. Narcissism plays a big role in the legal profession. Many individuals with narcissistic traits are drawn to the law and the legal system. This podcast has covered topics similar to this one in the past, like the episode about the signs of malignant narcissism in the legal profession and how to handle bullying in law firms. This pair has also worked together on an episode where you can hear more of Kelcey’s experience. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/217