BONUS EPISODE - "Innovate Into The Unknown" with Atif Rafiq

Available NOW wherever you get your podcasts, The Mindset Economy is the podcast from the team that brought you The Evolving Leader.Presented by co-hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender, this new podcast addresses How will we work, live, and belong in a more uncertain world, where machines can think?Our hypothesis is that as quantitative, routine, low-cognitive work is automated, human advantage will come from qualitative work, creativity, judgement, and social intelligence. The Mindset Economy podcast will explore the changes taking place, how leaders will respond to creation of a new economy being ushered in by the mass adoption of AI, and how we can accelerate human advantage. The Mindset Economy will feature a broad diversity of voices: from leaders at the edge of this transformation to performance scientists and AI thinkers and social philosophers. Subscribe NOW. Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mindset-economy/id1857925112 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3pFMH4kJBslfg5yg50PIDV?si=6e41e1326f2d42ab YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdDPnyDmEZvkU5PSvv7r5YQSend a message to The Evolving Leader team

In this episode of The Evolving Leader, Jean and Scott sit down with Andy MacMillan, CEO of Alteryx, to explore how generative AI is reshaping work, leadership and organisational design. Andy shares a uniquely practical and grounded view of where companies really are with AI adoption, caught in a chaotic but exciting period where the opportunity is clear, but the scaffolding is not yet in place. He explains why AI transformation cannot be delegated to IT, how leaders should approach reimagining business processes, and why Theory of Constraints is one of the most powerful lenses for navigating the next wave of change.Andy also opens up about the leadership challenges ahead: maintaining psychological safety in the midst of rapid technological shift, helping teams build confidence with new tools, and avoiding both complacency and panic. He shares candid lessons from his own leadership journey, the importance of transparency when organisations face change, and why the most impactful AI practices often happen at the “strategic altitude” rather than in day-to-day automation. Further reading re. Andy MacMillan and Alteryx:·      How AI adoption is driving a new data era at Alteryx — An interview with Andy MacMillan discussing his role as CEO (appointed December 2024), Alteryx’s repositioning as an “AI Data Clearinghouse”, and his thoughts on shifting from siloed business-data systems to unified analytics.·      Alteryx Looks To Become An AI Data Powerhouse With New Unified Platform (CRN, May 2025) — MacMillan discusses the launch of the “Alteryx One” platform, a strategic move to unify analytics, data-prep and AI workflows under one roof.·      With agentic AI we are being sold on the idea of running before we can walk or crawl, says Alteryx’s Andy MacMillan (Tech Monitor, May 2025) — A leadership-focused piece where MacMillan emphasises the importance of starting with manageable AI projects, surfacing his mindset around experimentation, governance and human-machine synergy.Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderBluesky            @evolvingleader.bsky.socialYouTube           @evolvingleader The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode of The Evolving Leader, hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are joined by Dr. Sunita Sah, a physician turned organisational psychologist and Professor of Management at Cornell University. Together they explore the power of saying “no” in a world that rewards compliance. Drawing from her acclaimed book “Defy: The Power of No in a World that Demands Yes”, Dr Sah reveals how our upbringing, institutions, and social pressures teach us to equate being “good” with being obedient, and how that conditioning can silence our values. She introduces the concept of “insinuation anxiety,” the discomfort of implying distrust when we disagree, and shares how to build the courage and skill to act in alignment with what truly matters.For senior leaders, this conversation reframes defiance as an essential leadership practice, not rebellion, but integrity in action. Sah explains the five stages of defiance, the cost of compliance, and why organisations that cultivate psychological safety and intellectual humility outperform those that suppress challenge. It’s a thought-provoking guide to leading with authenticity, courage, and moral clarity in complex systems where it’s often easier to say yes.Further materials from Sunita Sah:“Defy: The Power of No in a Worlds That Demands Yes”, (Blink Publishing, February 2025)“The science of defiance: A psychology researcher explains why people comply – and how to resist”, (The Conversations, September 2025)“America thinks it’s a country of free thinkers. But we’re actually compliant”, (Los Angeles Times, February 2025) “How to Say No and Mean It”, (Psychology Today, January 2025)  Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderBluesky            @evolvingleader.bsky.socialYouTube           @evolvingleader The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this thought-provoking episode of The Evolving Leader, hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender talk with Dr Christine Rosen, senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and author of The Extinction of Experience. The conversation examines how our growing dependence on technology is subtly reshaping what it means to be human, thinning our attention, dulling empathy, and changing how we connect and make sense of the world. Drawing on history, neuroscience and cultural observation, Christine invites us to pause and consider what is the true cost of convenience, and how do we reclaim our embodied authentic experience in a digital world?For leaders, this conversation is a wake-up call. As AI accelerates and organisations seek ever greater efficiency, Rosen argues that the future advantage will belong to those who can cultivate distinctly human capacities, presence, curiosity, and discernment. Her insights challenge us to create workplaces that strengthen, rather than outsource, our humanity. Further materials from Christine Rosen:‘The Extinction Of Experience’ (Jan, 2025) Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender: Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderBluesky            @evolvingleader.bsky.socialYouTube           @evolvingleader The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this bonus episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Scott Allender and Arjun Sahdev talk to Atif Rafiq, the first Chief Digital Officer in Fortune 500 history and former senior executive at McDonald’s, Volvo, and MGM Resorts. Now CEO and co-founder of Ritual, an AI-powered workflow platform, Atif shares how leaders can build decision-making systems that are faster, fairer, and more adaptive in an age of complexity. He explains his core principle of “exploration before alignment” and why premature agreement kills curiosity and weakens problem-solving.Find out more about Atif Rafiq:www.ritual.workwww.decisionsprint.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/atif1/https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/re-wire-6765332215867031552/Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastThe Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Send a message to The Evolving Leader team After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this latest episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, Jean Gomes is joined by Mark Crowley, author of Lead from the Heart, to explore how emotion, belonging, and authentic care are redefining leadership for the modern world. Mark shares his remarkable personal journey, from an upbringing shaped by trauma to a career built on leading through compassion. We hear how what began as an instinctive way to give others what he never received became a philosophy now backed by neuroscience and organisational research.Jean and Mark unpack why traditional engagement models are failing, how the science of emotion is reshaping our understanding of performance, and why belonging and care are now the greatest predictors of organisational health. This is a powerful conversation for leaders seeking to create cultures that elevate both human well-being and business results.Further materials from Mark Crowley:“Don’t Measure Employee Engagement—Support Employee Well-Being” (2025, Porchlight Book Company)“5 Leadership Strategies To Help Teams Thrive Amid Uncertainty” (2025, Fast Company)“Leaders don’t really care about employee engagement. Here’s why” (2024, Fast Company)“How leaders can address the human energy crisis” (2023, Fast Company)“Lead From The Heart: Transformational Leadership For The 21st Century” (2011, Balboa Press) Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender: Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderBluesky            @evolvingleader.bsky.socialYouTube           @evolvingleader The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode of The Evolving Leader, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender talk to neurologist and author Adam Zeman about his latest book The Shape of Things Unseen. Together they explore how imagination helps us step outside the here and now, recall the past, and anticipate the future, and why this ability matters more than ever in a world shaped by automation and accelerating change.Adam takes us inside the science of the mind’s eye, from aphantasia (the inability to visualise) to hyperphantasia (imagery as vivid as reality), and unpacks what these differences reveal about creativity, culture and leadership. This conversation offers practical insights for leaders on cultivating imagination within organisations, the role of daydreaming in innovation, and how to create environments where ideas can flourish.Further materials from Adam Zeman:Zeman, A. (2025). The Shape of Things Unseen: A New Science of Imagination. Bloomsbury.Zeman, A., Milton, F., Della Sala, S. (2024). “Aphantasia and Hyperphantasia: Exploring imagery vividness extremes.” Cortex, 170, 1–14.Zeman, A. (2024). “Aphantasia: The science of visual imagery absence.” Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 28(3), 189–200. Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderBluesky            @evolvingleader.bsky.socialYouTube           @evolvingleader The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Scott Allender and Sara Deschamps sit down with Dr. Gabriele Rizzo, a global authority on strategic foresight who has advised NATO, the US Space Force and major government institutions. The conversation explores how leaders can shift their relationship with the future, moving from prediction and short-termism to building resilience and long-term value. Gabriele shares the laws of foresight, why multiple futures matter, and how to use practical tools like scenario planning and futures wheels to unlock new thinking in times of uncertainty.This conversation is a guide to making space for future relevance. Gabriele Rizzo challenges the listener to see the unknown not as danger but as potential, and to build organisations capable of disruptive innovation rather than defending the status quo. Whether you’re leading through transformation, wrestling with the implications of AI, or seeking to balance immediate performance with long-term impact, this conversation offers practical and thought-provoking insights into how foresight can become a critical leadership advantage.Further materials from Gabriele RizzoLongviews.ai Foresight KitchenHR Futures 2030: A Design for Future-Ready Human Resources Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderBluesky            @evolvingleader.bsky.socialYouTube           @evolvingleader The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode of The Evolving Leader, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender talk to Sir David Spiegelhalter, one of the world’s foremost authorities on risk and probability. David explains why embracing uncertainty, rather than trying to eliminate it is essential for leaders who want to build resilience and make better judgments in complex times.Drawing from his latest book “The Art of Uncertainty”, David shares stories that bring statistics to life, from forecasting failures to the importance of imagination and red-team thinking. This conversation offers both a challenge and a toolkit: how to hold authority while admitting doubt, how to communicate risk with clarity, and how to lead teams toward what he calls ‘safe uncertainty’. Further materials from David Spiegelhalter:Five Rules For Evidence CommunicationThe art and science of uncertainty - with David Spiegelhalter (recorded at the Royal Institution, 30 January 2025) Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender: Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderBluesky            @evolvingleader.bsky.socialYouTube           @evolvingleader The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

In this episode of The Evolving Leader, co-hosts Scott Allender and Emma Sinclair sit down with Icelandic author, sustainability leader and entrepreneur Hrund Gunnsteinsdottir to explore how intuition can guide leaders through times of uncertainty and noise. Drawing from her book INSÆI: Icelandic Wisdom for Turbulent Times and her acclaimed documentary InnSæi: The Power of Intuition, Hrund shares how reconnecting with our inner compass helps us balance rational analysis with intuitive insight, creativity and emotional intelligence. From her own experience of burnout to lessons on presence, journaling, and attention, she reveals how leaders can cultivate deeper self-awareness and resilience.This conversation goes beyond abstract theory, showing how intuition plays a vital role in decision-making, relationships, and leadership culture. Hrund explains how being present allows us to listen more fully, connect with others, and sense opportunities we might otherwise miss. If you are navigating complexity, seeking clarity in uncertainty, or wanting to integrate wisdom and creativity into your leadership practice, this episode offers practical tools and profound inspiration.Further references“Listen to Your Intuition — It Can Help You Navigate the Future”https://www.ted.com/talks/hrund_gunnsteinsdottir_listen_to_your_intuition_it_can_help_you_navigate_the_future “How to tap into your intuition: a live meditation with Hrund Gunnsteinsdóttir”https://tedxlondon.com/podcasts/how-to-tap-into-your-intuition-a-live-meditation-with-hrund-gunnsteinsdottir/ Other reading from Jean Gomes and Scott Allender: Leading In A Non-Linear World (J Gomes, 2023)The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence (S Allender, 2023)Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeadeSend a message to The Evolving Leader team After more than 5 years of hosting The Evolving Leader, Jean Gomes and Scott Allender are launching their new show The Mindset Economy in January 2026. The new show will explore how to live better, work smarter and be connected in a more uncertain world where machines can think. Available wherever you get your podcasts.