When Grace and Drugs Share the Same Album

A controversial new IRS regulation just opened the door for churches to endorse political candidates from the pulpit. Esau McCaulley and Justin Giboney weigh in on if this a win for religious freedom, a threat to the church’s public witness, or just business as usual? Then they unpack the unexpected reunion of hip-hop duo The Clipse. One brother found faith. The other kept rapping about dealing drugs. So what happens when grace and drug bars share the same tracklist? Can Christian artists operate in secular spaces without compromise? Plus: Black vs. African American, summer recommendations, and is Mike secretly the voice of the Bible Project?   0:00 - Theme Song   1:52 - Churches Endorsing Candidates   14:50 - African American or Black?   17:05 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   24:40 - Is Mike the Bible Project guy?   26:35 - Drugs and Gospel on the Same Album   41:11 - Summer Plans   45:00 - End Credits   Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around: How the Black Church’s Public Witness Leads Us out of the Culture War by Justin Giboney: https://a.co/d/cMMUHlQ

What do Black churches, Catholics, and evangelicals all agree on? That Trump’s “Big Beautiful Bill” is a big, problematic mess. Esau is joined by Malcolm Foley to unpack the sweeping legislation that slashes aid to the poor while delivering massive tax cuts to the wealthy. What does this reveal about our national values and how should the church respond to a policy so openly shaped by greed? Plus, the team reflects on the devastating flash floods in Texas that killed over 100 people. How long should we wait before asking the hard questions about accountability and whether this tragedy could have been prevented?   0:00 - Theme Song   1:20 - Hot Dog Eating Content   3:30 - AI and Racism   18:10 - Church Response to Trump’s “Big Beautiful Bill”   22:38 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   23:52 - Employment vs Proof of Employment   52:47 - End Credits

As the Fourth of July approaches, Esau and Tish Harrison Warren reflect on what patriotism means today, especially for Christians who feel caught between critique and love of country. Then, Tish introduces the idea of “big church privilege,” and explores what’s gained and lost in the shift from large, well-resourced congregations to smaller, more intimate communities. Finally, they break down Peter Thiel’s recent comments about stagnation, progress, and humanity’s future. What happens when tech leaders try to achieve perfection without God?   0:00 - Theme Song   0:58 - 4th of July   12:16 - Small Church Privilege   26:08 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   27:35 - Peter Tiel’s Eschatology   43:38 - End Credits

Marine biologist and author Rachel Jordan joins Esau McCaulley in studio to talk about her new book If the Ocean Has a Soul. They dive into the deep waters of science and theology, discussing coral reefs, climate change, and why the ocean might be one of the most overlooked witnesses to God's glory. Rachel shares how a tenth-grade biology class changed her life, how she navigates faith in scientific spaces (and vice versa), and what the church often misses about the natural world. Plus: jellyfish football teams, Titanic conspiracies, and the surprising spirituality of sea creatures.   0:00 - Theme Song   0:52 - Low-Stakes Conspiracy Theory   6:07 - Aquatic Sports Mascots   17:18 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   18:35 - Scientists and Faith   26:12 - The Ocean and God’s Glory   32:35 - Can Fish Talk?   46:25 - End Credits   If the Ocean Has a Soul: A Marine Biologist’s Pursuit of Truth through Deep Waters of Faith and Science by Rachel G. Jordan: https://a.co/d/f0hLtQZ

Pastor and author Sharon Hodde Miller joins Esau McCaulley for a surprising conversation about the live-action Lilo & Stitch and how a children’s film quietly captures the realities of single motherhood, economic pressure, and communal grace. Then, Esau and Sharon talk about the challenges of pastoring in a polarizing time and how their online persona compares to their pastoral persona. Also, we have a Disney movie draft and a winner is declared.   0:00 - Theme Song   1:25 - Disney Movie Draft   13:40 - Lilo and Stitch   15:48 - Why Does Sharon Prefer the Remake?   22:42 - Single Motherhood   25:03 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   27:10 - Being a Pastor with a Platform   40:45 - Free of Me   50:36 - End Credits   Free of Me: Why Life is Better When It’s Not About You by Sharon Hodde Miller: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0801075238?ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_R7GWYC5AW573Y1AZXT64&bestFormat=true

It’s officially summer, and things are heating up. Esau is joined by Justin Giboney and producer Mike to swap summer playlists, celebrate Kirk Franklin’s unexpected honor at the BET Awards, talk about what kids should do during the summer, and unpack the recent protests in Los Angeles following aggressive ICE raids. What does faithful protest look like? How do Christians respond when political theater overshadows human dignity? And can you really call it a cookout without Earth, Wind & Fire?   0:00 - Theme Song   1:17 - Cookout Playlist Mount Rushmore   5:35 - BET Music Awards and Kirk Franklin   11:55 - Kid Rock   18:36 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   19:46 - Summer Protests   38:30 - Coco Gauff and Black Accomplishment   46:12 - End Credits

NBA Finals. Trump’s sledgehammer policies. A Bible debate over sex. Esau, Justin Giboney, and Producer Mike truly tackle it all this week. First, why do small markets (and small churches) keep getting overlooked? Then, what’s really driving the fight over international students on U.S. campuses? Also, a popular pastor claims the Bible does not say sex before marriage is wrong, but we aren't convinced. Finally, sports heartbreak, Taylor Swift, and Mike (kind of) makes his co-host debut.   1:04 - NBA Finals and Small Markets/Churches 9:22 - The Bible Sexual Immorality Debate 25:11 - Mike's Corner: International Students on Campus and Trump 46:48 - Taylor Swift  

Elite universities are trying something new, or maybe not so new. To attract more conservative faculty, they’re adopting diversity strategies once used to support marginalized communities. So now that DEI is working for the right, is it still “woke”? Plus, fake Pope quotes are everywhere. Why is everyone trying to make the new Pope say what they want to hear? And in other news: a plantation burns, prom has officially lost its mind, and Producer Mike is in need of some friends.   0:00 - Theme Song   2:11 - Big Budget Proms   14:18 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   15:40 - Fake Pope Quotes   25:18 - DEI for Conservatives   39:51 - The Plantation Fire   47:12 - End Credits

Author and mother of six, Katie Blackburn joins Esau for a conversation around single parenting, disability, and faith. Katie shares her experience raising a son with severe autism, the grief and grace that come with it, and how the church has responded, sometimes with welcome, other times with unintentional exclusion. Together, they explore why single parents and families affected by disability often feel unseen in church spaces, and what communities can do to change that. They also talk about Katie’s new children’s book The Very Best Baseball Game, inspired by a local disability league, and how stories can help us better understand diversity, empathy, and belonging. 0:00 - Show Starts   2:15 - Mount Rushmore of Family Films   7:55 - Single Motherhood   10:42 - Writing as Therapy   18:09 - Sponsor - No Small Endeavor - Award-winning podcast where theologians, philosophers, and best-selling authors talk about faith with Lee C. Camp. Start listening today: https://pod.link/1513178238   19:21 - Church with Single People   24:28 - The Very Best Baseball Game   33:20 - What Can Churches Do for Disabled Children?   42:38 - End Credits  

Why does everything feel like a reboot? In this episode, Esau is joined by producer Mike and historian Malcolm Foley for a wide-ranging conversation on the current state of American pop culture. From promising films like Sinners and Thunderbolts to the creative fatigue behind endless reboots and auto-tuned algorithms, they explore whether we're stuck in a cycle of stagnation and cynicism, and why Beyoncé’s country album might provide a glimmer of hope for the future of the pop culture industry.   0:00 - Show Starts   0:45 - Theme Song   2:55 - Uninformed Takes on Ryan Coogler’s Sinners   10:16 - Movies with Anit-Christian Elements?   18:16 - Worst Pop Culture Era   26:15 - How in-Person Classes Change Things   33:55 - Revitalization of Pop Culture   47:15 - End Credits