Ep. 221 - Peter Rollins - "Communion, Community, and the Transformative Power of Doubt" Part 2

Episode Summary:Part 2 of our conversation with philosopher and friend of the show Peter Rollins goes even deeper into the psychological, existential, and communal dynamics of faith and identity. If Part 1 set the stage, Part 2 pulls the curtain all the way back.This is one of those conversations that lingers. It’s dense, it’s provocative, and it’s full of the kind of insights that Pete has become known for all around the world.Resources & References:Peter Rollins’ official website: https://peterrollins.comPyrotheology gatherings, seminars, and resourcesPeter’s books and lectures on belief, identity, and desireConnect With Us:Website: www.thedeconstructionists.orgInstagram: @deconstructionistspodcastEmail: [email protected] you enjoyed this two-part conversation, share it with a friend and tag us on social media.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode Summary:In this long-awaited return to the podcast, philosopher, storyteller, and longtime friend of the show Peter Rollins joins us for a rich, mind-bending conversation about faith, identity, and the transformative potential of doubt. Peter was one of our earliest guests and someone who understood the heart of this podcast from day one. After far too much time away, he’s back — and this conversation does not disappoint.In Part 1, we dig into some of the themes Peter has become known for: embracing uncertainty, challenging religious narratives that promise certainty or comfort, and exploring how belief functions psychologically and communally. One of the biggest takeaways in this episode is Peter’s insight into Communion vs. community — a deeply fascinating reframing of what spiritual connection actually is and what it isn’t.Whether you’ve been following Pete’s work for years or you’re encountering him for the first time, this episode is packed with ideas that will challenge, encourage, and maybe even unsettle you (in the best way).Resources & References:Peter Rollins’ official website: https://peterrollins.comBooks by Peter Rollins, including The Idolatry of God, The Divine Magician, and How (Not) to Speak of GodPyrotheology community and eventsConnect With Us:Website: www.thedeconstructionists.orgInstagram: @deconstructionistspodcastEmail: [email protected] tuned for updated Patreon tiers launching soon!Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

🎉 We’ve Launched a Brand New Patreon!After years of letting our old Patreon quietly collect dust, we’re excited to officially announce that The Deconstructionists Podcast now has a fully rebuilt Patreon — with brand new tiers, fresh content, and one beloved classic perk we kept just for you.This podcast has always been — and still is — 100% independent. We cover the costs out of pocket, not because it’s easy, but because we believe in the conversations we’re having and in the community that’s grown around this work. Your emails, messages, and stories are what keep us going.✨ What’s New on Patreon?Brand new Patreon hubUpdated support tiersLong-form educational video contentExtended versions of topics you may have seen on TikTokResources and references to go deeperAnd more exclusive content on the wayThe short-form clips you see on social media are just the beginning — on Patreon, we take the time to slow down, provide full context, and really explore the questions beneath the surface.❤️ Thank YouWhether you’re a brand new supporter or someone who’s been with us for years, we cannot thank you enough. As we approach our 10-year anniversary, we have some special surprises planned to celebrate with you.🔗 How to JoinYou can support the show and join our Patreon:Through the link here: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheDeconstructionistsPodcastOr on our website at thedeconstructionists.orgMore interviews, deeper dives, and exciting new content are already in the works for the year ahead.Thank you for being part of this journey with us.— The Deconstructionists PodcastSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode SummaryIn this deep-dive episode, we explore one of the most influential — and controversial — doctrines in the history of Christianity: Original Sin.For many of us, Original Sin was presented as a foundational truth. We were told it explained everything wrong with humanity: our impulses, our desires, our bodies, our failures. But where did this idea actually come from? How did early Christian communities understand human nature? And how did one interpretation, shaped by the life and worldview of Augustine, grow into a theological framework that still impacts psychology, sexuality, gender, and modern Christian identity?This episode unpacks the text, the history, the cultural influences, and the lasting consequences of the doctrine — and invites listeners to reconsider what it means to be human, good, flawed, and beloved.In This Episode, We Explore:📜 1. What Is Original Sin?The doctrine as many of us inherited itWhy it came to dominate Western ChristianityHow it differs from concepts of sin in early Jewish and early Christian thought👤 2. Augustine’s InfluenceAugustine’s life, trauma, and worldview — and how each shaped his theologyHow his readings of Paul became the backbone of Original SinWhere he diverges from earlier Christian writers and the Greek Fathers📖 3. The Biblical Passages Used to Support Original SinRomans 5 and its contested interpretationsGenesis 3 as story versus doctrineHow translation choices influenced meaningWhy Jewish interpretations of the same texts are radically different🔍 4. The Theology Behind the TheologyHow ideas about sex, bodies, and desire shaped the doctrineShame vs. guilt — and how Western Christianity confused the twoThe psychological cost of believing we are “born broken”⛪ 5. What Early Christians Actually BelievedA look at diversity in early Christian thoughtEastern Christian views on sin, growth, and human potentialHow the doctrine evolved over centuries, not overnight💔 6. The Modern ImpactHow Original Sin shaped purity cultureHow it influenced sermons, parenting, and “Christian counseling”Its role in reinforcing fundamentalism’s fear-based frameworksWhy many of us internalized shame as spirituality🌱 7. Reclaiming a Healthier View of HumanityAlternatives rooted in scripture and traditionWhy many theologians argue the doctrine is not essentialWhat happens when we start from belovedness rather than brokennessWhy This Episode MattersSo many deconstruction journeys begin with questions like:“Am I really this messed up, or did I just inherit a harmful framework?”“Is the human story fundamentally about failure?”“Why does the church talk about sin more than love?”Understanding where the doctrine of Original Sin came from — and how historically recent and culturally shaped it actually is — can be freeing. It opens the door to new ways of understanding ourselves, our bodies, our past, and our future.It also challenges the narrative that progressive or post-evangelical Christians are the ones “not taking the Bible seriously.” In reality, reassessing the doctrine through context, language, and scholarship is exactly what taking scripture seriously looks like.Resources Mentioned / Recommended ReadingThe Birth of Satan – Pagels & B. McGinnThe Sin of Certainty – Peter EnnsThe Evolution of Adam – Peter EnnsThe Story of Original Sin – John E. ToewsSin: A History – Gary A. AndersonWritings of Augustine, especially Confessions and On the Merits and Forgiveness of SinsConnect & Share Your ThoughtsHave a topic you’d love to hear explored in 2026?Reach out anytime:Website: www.thedeconstructionists.orgEmail: [email protected]/TikTok: @deconstructionistspodcast Want to support the show?The Patreon relaunch is coming early next year with new tiers and some returning favorites. Thank you to everyone already supporting — it truly makes the work possible.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode OverviewIn this second half of John’s conversation with Pastor Joe Ingle, we continue exploring the deeply human, often heartbreaking realities of prison ministry — particularly Joe’s decades of work with individuals on death row.If Part 1 introduced the calling and contours of his work, Part 2 steps fully into the emotional, spiritual, and ethical complexities of walking with people whom society has condemned and often forgotten. Joe shares stories from his time working with incarcerated individuals, the end-of-life moments he has witnessed, the failures and blind spots of our justice system, and the surprising ways grace and humanity still break through in the darkest circumstances.This is not a conversation about abstract theology or distant policy — it’s about presence, dignity, and the costly practice of seeing people when no one else does.In This Episode, We Explore:👉 Joe’s experiences accompanying individuals through their final days and hours👉 What capital punishment looks like from the inside — spiritually, emotionally, and practically👉 The toll this work takes on families, communities, and those who minister in these spaces👉 How systemic failures and racial inequities shape incarceration and sentencing👉 The difficult conversations Joe has had with death row inmates — and the moments that stay with him👉 The theological and moral implications of state-sanctioned execution👉 Why Joe believes presence, not answers, is the most powerful form of ministry👉 How his experiences have shaped his own understanding of justice, mercy, and the GospelWhy This Conversation MattersPastor Joe’s work forces us to confront the human cost of our justice system — not through statistics or talking points, but through stories of real people with real families, real trauma, and real hope.His ministry challenges us to consider:What does justice actually mean?What does mercy look like when lives hang in the balance?What does faith ask of us when the systems around us fail?And how do we honor the humanity of those our society has discarded?These questions aren’t easy — but they’re necessary. And Joe brings decades of lived experience to help us wrestle with them.About Pastor Joe InglePastor Joe Ingle is a long-time prison minister, author, activist, and advocate for people on death row. For decades he has been a steady presence for individuals facing execution, providing pastoral care, support, and companionship in some of the most difficult circumstances imaginable. His work has shaped national conversations on criminal justice reform and continues to call the Church toward deeper compassion and accountability.Listen to Part 1If you missed the first half of this conversation — including the origin of Joe’s calling and the stories that shaped his approach to justice — be sure to listen to Part 1.Support the ShowIf this episode resonates with you, you can help support the podcast by:🔥 Leaving a 5-star review🔥 Sharing this episode with a friend🔥 Following us on social media🔥 Subscribing so you don’t miss future interviewsYour support helps new listeners find the show and keeps conversations like this possible.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this long-awaited and nearly lost conversation, John sits down with Pastor Joe Ingle, a longtime prison minister, advocate, and spiritual companion to people on death row. Joe’s work challenges our assumptions about justice, punishment, compassion, and what it means to show up for people society has thrown away.This interview was recorded last year and was almost lost forever when the laptop it was saved on died unexpectedly. Miraculously, the file was recovered just in time — and we are finally able to share Part 1 of this important two-part conversation.Following our recent episode with Chaplain Kerstin Hedlund, who offered insight into spiritual care within the military, Joe continues our exploration of ministry in difficult, often unseen places — where grief, hope, and humanity collide in profound ways.In This EpisodeIn Part 1, we cover:Joe’s early call to prison ministryHow he became involved with individuals facing executionWhat it actually looks like to walk with someone on death rowThe spiritual, emotional, and human complexities of prison chaplaincyHow society frames “criminals” — and what we miss when we refuse to see their humanityThe cost of compassion, and why Joe refuses to turn awayWhy faith traditions often struggle to handle justice and mercy wellThe surprising places Joe has seen grace show up behind barsWhy This Conversation MattersJoe’s work invites us to confront just how uncomfortable — and necessary — compassion can be. His stories shine light on systems we rarely see and raise hard questions about accountability, punishment, redemption, and what Christian faith looks like when lived out in the shadows.For listeners who appreciated our recent conversation with Chaplain Kerstin Hedlund, Joe’s perspective provides a powerful complement. Together, their episodes explore ministry in spaces most people never encounter, each revealing a different facet of what deep presence and care look like.About Pastor Joe InglePastor Joe Ingle has spent decades ministering to incarcerated individuals across the United States, particularly those on death row. His work centers on accompaniment, advocacy, and restoring dignity to people society has deemed irredeemable. Joe is also an author and activist committed to criminal justice reform and the abolition of the death penalty.Links & ResourcesGrab a copy of Joe's book, "Too Close to the Flame: With the Condemned inside the Southern Killing Machine." Support the ShowIf this episode resonates with you, please consider:Sharing it with a friendLeaving a 5-star reviewSupporting the podcast on PatreonFollowing us on Instagram, X, TikTok, and YouTubeYour support helps new listeners find these important stories.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In this episode, we continue our conversation with Army Chaplain Lieutenant Colonel Kerstin Hedlund. If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, we recommend starting there for context.Kerstin has spent years serving alongside soldiers in moments of grief, trauma, transition, and deep personal struggle. Her work isn’t about offering easy answers. It’s about presence, listening, and holding space for real human complexity.This conversation is for anyone who has wrestled with suffering, loss, or disillusionment. It’s also for those who care deeply about someone who has served.Kerstin’s insight offers a grounded and deeply humane perspective on what it means to stay present with one another through the hardest parts of life.Resources & Further ReadingIf you’d like to explore more about topics mentioned in this episode:“Soul Repair: Recovering from Moral Injury After War” – Rita Nakashima Brock & Gabriella LettiniThe Moral Injury Project – Syracuse UniversityVA National Center for PTSD: https://www.ptsd.va.govMilitary Chaplaincy Overview: https://www.goarmy.com/chaplainConnect with UsWebsite: thedeconstructionists.orgInstagram: @deconstructionistspodcastX (Twitter): @deconstructcastSupport the show: patreon.com/deconstructionistsSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode SummaryIn this two-part conversation, John sits down with Pastor Kerstin Hedlund, a U.S. Army Chaplain whose story offers a rare window into what faith looks like when it’s lived out in the hardest and most human places.From her path into military chaplaincy to the deep questions that arise in the presence of trauma and moral injury, Kerstin’s perspective brings theology down to earth — into barracks, hospitals, and battle zones — where hope, compassion, and grief often collide.Together they explore what it means to serve others in a system defined by hierarchy and discipline, how empathy and faith can survive amid loss, and why doubt and mystery might actually make us more compassionate people.Why It MattersPastor Kerstin’s story reminds us that faith isn’t tested in seminaries or sanctuaries — it’s tested in the trenches of real life. Her honesty about doubt, fatigue, and renewal challenges the neat formulas we often attach to belief and invites us toward something deeper, more embodied, and more human.Listen Now🎧 Available wherever you get your podcasts.🔗 More episodes at TheDeconstructionists.comFollow & Support📸 Instagram — @thedeconstructionistspodcast🐦 X / Twitter — @deconstructcast☕ Patreon — Join for bonus episodes, behind-the-scenes discussions, and community Q&AsSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode: Hell, the Devil, and Atonement TheoriesWhat exactly do Christians mean when they talk about hell? Where did the idea of the devil come from, and why does it look so different across the Bible? And why are there so many different theories of atonement—Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection—when most of us only ever hear one?In this episode, we dig deep into the history, language, and theology behind three core ideas that have shaped Christianity for centuries:Hell – from Sheol and Gehenna in the Hebrew Bible to Dante’s Inferno and modern evangelical preaching.The Devil – tracing the figure from the Hebrew Bible’s “accuser” to the cosmic enemy of God in later Christian thought.Atonement Theories – surveying models from Christus Victor to Moral Influence to Penal Substitution, and asking how these different views reveal the diverse ways Christians have tried to understand salvation.This conversation explores how these concepts developed over time, why they remain so influential, and what happens when we step back to ask whether we’ve been handed the whole story.Helpful Resources & Further ReadingIf you want to dive deeper, here are some books and articles we recommend:On HellEdward Fudge – The Fire That ConsumesRobin Parry – The Evangelical UniversalistJerry L. Walls – Hell: The Logic of DamnationOn the Devil & SatanElaine Pagels – The Origin of SatanHenry Ansgar Kelly – Satan: A BiographyArchibald Robertson – The Devil: His Origin and His FallOn Atonement TheoriesGustaf Aulén – Christus VictorN.T. Wright – The Day the Revolution BeganFleming Rutledge – The Crucifixion: Understanding the Death of Jesus ChristTony Jones – A Better Atonement (shorter, accessible resource)Broader ResourcesBart Ehrman – Heaven and Hell: A History of the AfterlifeC. S. Lewis – The Great Divorce (a classic imaginative take, though not academic)The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entries on “Hell,” “Satan,” and “Atonement” (for an open-access scholarly overview).Connect with UsWebsite: thedeconstructionists.orgInstagram & X: @deconstructcastSpecial music by Forrest Clay from the Recover EPSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode DescriptionIn this episode, John takes on a question that’s been floating around the public conversation for years — often asked with fear, frustration, or misunderstanding: Is deconstruction a bad thing?After years of listening to the debate unfold online and in church spaces, it felt like time to finally respond. This conversation is part of our current series tackling some of the most frequently requested topics from listeners — and few have come up as often as this one.John explores what “deconstruction” actually means, why so many people are drawn to it, and how it’s often mischaracterized by those who haven’t walked through it. From faith crises to intellectual honesty, this episode invites listeners to see deconstruction not as the end of faith, but as a deeply human and often necessary process of growth.🔍 Topics CoveredWhy the term “deconstruction” has become controversialHow faith communities have responded — and why many get it wrongThe philosophical roots of deconstruction (Derrida, Foucault, and beyond)Why deconstruction doesn’t equal destructionThe emotional and spiritual side of rethinking beliefRebuilding after the unraveling — what comes nextListener questions: “Can you come back from deconstruction?”💬 Key TakeawaysDeconstruction isn’t rebellion — it’s reflection.Asking hard questions doesn’t destroy faith; it refines it.Healthy faith can withstand curiosity, doubt, and nuance.The goal isn’t to tear down belief, but to let go of what’s untrue so that something more honest can take root.📚 Recommended ResourcesBooks & ArticlesFaith After Doubt — Brian D. McLaren (Amazon)The Sin of Certainty — Peter Enns (Amazon)The Great Spiritual Migration — Brian D. McLaren (Amazon)Out of Sorts — Sarah Bessey (Amazon)Theology in the Raw — “Is Deconstruction a Bad Thing?” podcast episode (theologyintheraw.com)Essays & Think Pieces“Deconstruction Is Not the Enemy” — Sojourners Magazine“When Faith Falls Apart: Why Deconstruction Can Be Holy” — Relevant Magazine“The Difference Between Deconstruction and Destruction” — Religion News ServiceFollow the ConversationInstagramX / Twitterthedeconstructionists.com🎧 Listen & SubscribeAvailable now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.👉 Don’t forget to leave a review and share the episode with someone who’s wrestling with their faith journey.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-deconstructionists1035/exclusive-contentAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy