Episode 686: Ken Liu, Technothrillers and AI Dreaming

This week we have a lively conversation with the remarkable Ken Liu, whose new thriller All That We See or Seem introduces a new protagonist, the gifted hacker Julia Z, in a tale that explores the growing role of AI, the possibility of a technology of shared dreams, a variety of near-future surveillance tech, and some pretty fearful players with even more fearful schemes. A dramatic shift from his epic fantasy/historical world of the Dandelion Dynasty series or the earlier classic short stories, it seems to represent an exciting new dimension in Ken’s career.

In a rare shorter episode, we chat about the late and much missed Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, with whom Jonathan and Gary had strangely similar encounters some years ago, and her early career as an SF writer before her decades-long success with her Saint-Germain series of vampire novels. That leads, briefly, to considering midlist vs. niche authors, before we get into some of the odd features of American copyright law as revealed by the recent Anthropic AI settlement.

With Gary recently returned from Worldcon in Seattle, we chat a bit about the Hugos (mostly avoiding second-guessing the results), which leads to some discussion of the differences between Hugo, Nebula, and World Fantasy Awards.  Jonathan raises an intriguing question about the novella category, with its rather reductive word-length definition of the form. But what, other than length, really distinguishes a novella from a short story or a novel? We talk a bit about favorite novellas, and specifically a 2013 Locus survey in which readers voted on the best novellas from 2000-2010. Which of those would still make the list today, and how has Tordotcom’s program of standalone novellas affected our view of the form? Of course, we ramble a bit about other matters and some interesting new and forthcoming books we’re excited about. Then, finally, we shut up.

Twenty five years ago China Mieville's second novel, Perdido Street Station, introduced the world to the fantastical city of Bas Lag. It went on to win the Arthur C Clarke and British Fantasy awards, and be nominated for the Hugo, Nebula, World Fantasy, Tiptree, and Locus awards among others. Perdido Street Station was followed by two further novels set in Bas Lag, The Scar and Iron Council and then Mieville turned his attention to other worlds. Today China joins Gary and Jonathan to chat on the podcast for the first time to look back at Perdido Street Station, how it was written and where it came from, and how he feels about it now. We also chat a little about what he's doing next.   As always, our sincere thanks to China for making the time to talk to us, and we hope you enjoy the discussion. Note: The original cover art for Perdido Street Station (shown above) was by British artist Les Edwards (painting as Edward Miller). You can see more of his work here.

In this week’s episode, we’re joined by two of our most exciting writers, each of whom has a new book out in August. Charlie Jane Anders’ Lessons in Magic and Disaster offers a wonderful combination of witchcraft, academia, and generational family tensions, while Annalee Newitz’s Automatic Noodle features a team of robots trying to establish a noodle shop in a San Francisco recovering from California's devastating war of secession with the rest of the U.S. We touch upon everything from writing in a believable 18th century voice to the challenges faced by a queer family and a trans protagonist, representing nonhuman points of view, the possibilities of a post-dystopian fiction, and balancing nonfiction and journalism with fiction writing. As always, Annalee and Charlie Jane make for a lively and unpredictable discussion.       

We're almost embarrassed to admit it, but it’s been ten years since we last chatted with Silvia Moreno-Garcia, shortly after her first novel Signal to Noise had been published. Now she’s back, talking about an excellent new novel The Bewitching. Along the way, we touch upon several of her other novels, including the bestselling Mexican Gothic, Silver Nitrate, The Seventh Veil of Salome, The Daughter of Doctor Moreau, and others. We also discuss her relationships with writers from Lovecraft and James M. Cain to the traditions of Gothic fiction. even touching upon C.L.Moore and some of Silvia’s own contemporaries. It’s a lively chat with an endlessly surprising writer.

Even though we know that some past episodes have probably spent too much time talking about awards, our latest chat begins with some thoughts on—well, awards. With Nebulas, Hugos, Shirley Jackson, Ignyte, World Fantasy, etc., there are just too many to ignore. We soon drift off into other topics. Gary is looking forward to hosting a panel discussion at the Locus Awards, and is fascinated by Kemi Ashing-Giwa’s 2023 novel The Splinter in the Sky, which leads into a discussion of how space opera-like stories have evolved over generations, what else we’ve read lately, how short story contracts have changed lately, whether there is a dearth of core SF or just an explosion of fantasy, and why Murderbot feels more like classic SF than many franchise properties. As usual, a laser-like focus on nothing in particular.

This week we are joined by an old friend of the podcast, the distinguished Canadian novelist Guy Gavriel Kay, whose wonderful new novel Written on the Dark is out this month. As always, we not only touch upon some details of the novel— which takes place in Kay’s own version of an alternate 15th century France, featuring a Parisian tavern poet loosely based on the historical François Villon—but on the perennial question of Kay’s unique mix of history, fiction, and the fantastic. This leads to a broader discussion of his fiction, the role of art and artists in his work, how fictional events from centuries ago can still resonate with events today, and even a bit on what it means to be a Canadian writer. Guy is as wise and articulate as always, and we never fail to learn valuable insights that leave us with much to ponder. Previously on Coode Street... Episode 600: The Coode Street Advent Calendar: Guy Gavriel Kay (2022) Coode Street Roundtable 5: Guy Gavriel Kay’s Children of Earth and Sky (2016) Episode 216: Guy Gavriel Kay and the Legend of the Lost Podcast (2015)

This week it’s just Jonathan and Gary again, in what some listeners might view as an either a classic ramble or a series of rabbit holes from which we never fully escape. We start with a discussion of some current trends such as cozy fantasy and SF, romantasy, and dark academia, noting that these had all been around for decades before getting their present labels, and briefly consider Paul Kincaid’s contention that “coziness” seems antithetical to what SF really does. We later touch upon what we’re reading, mentioning some forthcoming books by Nicola Griffith, Alix E. Harrow, and R.F. Kuang and the spectacular success of the latest novel by Coode Street goest Joe Abercrombie. Somewhere in there we start chatting about collectible editions, how many copies of a book do you really need,  historical fantasy, and even a bit on Robert Holdstock. Most important, though, is Coode Street’s first commercial. Jonathan and Gary’s common home in SF has long been Locus magazine, and we want to encourage our listeners to take a look at some of the neat perks being offered by this year’s IndieGoGo fundraiser and to make a contribution if you can.  

This week Jonathan and Gary are joined by Silvia Park to discuss her exciting debut novel, Luminous, which started life as a children's novel and connects to the Reactor/Tordotcom novelette "More Real Than Him". We chat about artificial intellligence, writing about robots and how we use them as surrogates in fiction, different perspectives on fiction and how Luminous  might be read by US and Korean audiences. As always, we'd like to thank Silvia for making time to talk to us and hope you enjoy the episode.