Episode 61: Delivering the Message - A Learnable Leadership Skill

The episode argues that go-to-market strategies must change because AI now answers buyer questions, frames categories, and builds shortlists before sales meetings, yet companies rarely “enable” AI the way they enable BDRs, AEs, and marketing. Host Richard Ellis and guest Darin Archer discuss AI as a powerful new team member that increases answer velocity, but only if it’s fed the right raw materials such as detailed documentation, FAQs, and objection handling. They note internal agents need content in formats LLMs can accurately consume, and that buyers increasingly rely on tools like ChatGPT for comparisons, reviews, and competitor insights. The conversation emphasizes more transparent sales playbooks, a non-linear buyer journey with large buying committees, and using AI to scale nurturing without overloading reps.Soundbites“The answer engine concept is pretty easy to feed, but it masks the problem that is usually always there under the surface, which is: what are you enabling it with?”“If that same prospect is talking to someone else, and they get the answer back faster from your competitor, and the answer was yes, and that ended up being the tiebreaker, you lose.”“The sales journey and the buying journey, it’s more of a mesh network where your buyer is at the center.”“If you aren’t comfortable leaning in on that, you probably have a different problem in your firm.”“You have the AI agent that keeps it warm and also doesn’t over-invest in it. So you let your rep stay focused.” Darin's website: https://www.darinarcher.comRichard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com 

In this episode of Some Goodness, Richard Ellis interviews Todd Katcher, founder of Digital Dealership System, which provides digital signage and performance boards in more than 1,000 car dealerships. He discusses early build-vs-buy constraints in hardware, tailoring offerings with many products to enable cross-selling, prioritizing his core revenue business while running multiple ventures, and advising new leaders to ignore titles, learn every function hands-on, and not compare early stages to others’ later success.Soundbites“Even if you have the money to hire other people to do your job, it’s still your job if you’re responsible for it.” (02:27)“If you could do something better yourself that you hired someone else for, then they’re the wrong person.” (02:09)“What do we do first? Everything. There’s no priority, ’cause you gotta figure it out all at once.” (03:40)“Know who you partner with before you partner with anybody... It’s kinda like a prenup, or pre-marriage counseling.” (05:00)“There’s a lot of talking heads, where they talk in theory but they don’t talk in practice.” (06:01)“Don’t compare your chapter one to someone’s chapter 100. Ask somebody how they got started, not how they got to where they are.” (24:20)“My day-to-day doesn’t have a title. My title is do what needs to get done.” (25:44)Richard’s website: https://www.revenueinnovations.comTodd’s website: http://www.digitaldealershipsystem.com

Host Richard Ellis welcomes Danny Goldberg, CPA, staffing and corporate training founder and author, to discuss why message delivery is a learnable leadership skill. Danny emphasizes engaging, succinct, tactfully direct communication; mastering the message without scripting; and being authentic rather than forcing humor or borrowed stories. They compare communication across one-on-one, team, and stage settings: build trust and show care in 1:1s, avoid leader-dominated talk in teams to reduce groupthink and increase psychological safety, and be clear and consistent on stage. Practical tips include using simple bullet-point prompts, avoiding podium barriers, ending early, interacting to keep adults engaged, and closing with “gold nugget” takeaways after Q&A.Soundbites“If your message can’t be delivered effectively, nobody’s gonna care about it.” “This might be more important than your intelligence, is being able to deliver your message.” “The less I speak, the more effective a speaker I’ve become.” “If you memorize your speech, you’re not gonna sound like you know it.” “If I don’t feel comfortable telling you something, then that’s part of your effectiveness. You probably aren’t the most effective leader then.” “I do not trust anybody that stands behind the podium the whole time. A podium is a physical barrier.” “If I’m telling you what to do, are you truly a team?” “All those one-on-one meetings, all those team meetings build you into your stage presence.” “If you’re not a funny person, don’t try to be funny.” “Telling stories for the sake of storytelling is just not good, and people get frustrated.”Danny's business, GoldSRD: https://goldsrd.com/Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com

Host Richard Ellis interviews Michael Epps Utley of GoEpps about Google’s unusual transition as AI and LLMs reshape discovery. Utley argues AI may be a “Google killer,” comparing Google’s current position to past platform shifts, and says Google is pushing Gemini into prime search real estate while negotiating the differences between search and AI. For businesses, he notes SEO rankings still matter but overall organic traffic is often down while remaining traffic is more valuable; informational content is increasingly answered by engines without site visits, making unique content and commercial-intent queries more important. He emphasizes reputation as central across platforms, with GEO/AEO relying more on what others say through reviews and offsite signals, and recommends CEOs “Google” and also check themselves in tools like ChatGPT and Grok. He also discusses adding schema so bots can read offers and events, noting bots now generate over half of internet sessions.Soundbites"SEO was about what we say about ourselves. GEO and AEO are what other people say about us.""Companies are getting less traffic from SEO, but the traffic that comes in is more valuable.""You can't tell you're in the water when you're a fish, and right now we're all equating Google with the internet, and that's just not the way it's gonna play out.""They're eating a lot of their brand recognition value to buy the data they need to make Gemini usable, so they're learning at the expense of the user base.""If you've had a content strategy that was about more is better, that's not the case anymore. Unique is better.""There's no replacing a good reputation. That just became the central most important thing across all these platforms.""People need to Google themselves more, but they gotta start Groking themselves too.""A week or a few weeks ago, bots were the biggest user of the internet for the first time. More than 50%."It's okay, y'all. We're all still people. Let's stay human."Michael's business, GoEpps: https://www.goepps.com/Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com 

Host Richard Ellis interviews Darin Archer about why companies that reach $10–$30M can stall and how leaders should diagnose it. Darin stresses that while data and KPIs matter, they can mislead without context, so he triangulates insights from customers, partners, and especially junior reps who offer candid, unfiltered feedback. He looks for pipeline stage velocity anomalies and early- vs late-stage closed-loss patterns to pinpoint go-to-market, pricing, enablement, or product-market-fit issues, then “double-clicks” with qualitative input and competitive intelligence. Darin highlights modern call-recording/transcription and sentiment tools to test hypotheses like pricing objections at scale. He recommends engaging external experts when problems are suspected but unproven or when performance has materially deteriorated, and advises new leaders to avoid “burning the calendar” on tactics and focus on strategic alignment while bringing in execution horsepower.Soundbites"You had a great sales team and you didn't feed them right. The whole supply chain was broken.""That list we got trained on for objection handling? None of those responses land. I tried it. Nothing lands.""Senior leaders have to defend so much... you won't get that from a senior leader.""You smell the smoke, but you don't see the smoke. And you definitely don't know if there's a fire.""Don't burn the calendar. Every month you're not firing on all cylinders, you lose radical traction.""It's a farce if you think you can do it yourself.""When your prospect or your former customer takes a call from a third party, they're much more honest.""That first wave of CRM was a digital notebook... that's a data set we've got to mine a lot more.""Most enablement teams aren't staffed with that forensic scientist mindset.""Respect the trade. You're asking these folks to do extraordinary things."Darin's website: https://www.darinarcher.comRichard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com 

Host Richard Ellis discusses claims from CEOs that “old SEO is dead” and interviews Michael Epps Utley, founder/CEO of GoEpps, who argues “SEO is dead, long live SEO,” with AEO (answer engine optimization) and GEO (generative engine optimization) becoming additions under the SEO umbrella. Utley distinguishes SEO as ranking in search, AEO as ranking in answers, and GEO as ranking in generated answers and sources, noting AI is additive to search and is changing website content toward novel questions and authoritative sourcing (e.g., data journalism). He describes GoEpps’ new AEO product that uses 180 external data points, aggregated into algorithms and metrics, to score brands and competitors from “how the internet sees” them. Key takeaways: stay broad and agile (“keep your knees bent”), expect to buy specialized solutions rather than build, avoid overreliance on new or incomplete metrics, and recognize marketing can’t mask poor operations as reputation becomes central.Soundbites"SEO is for ranking in search, AEO is for ranking in answers, and GEO is for ranking in generated answers, meaning their sources.""We're not just thinking about keywords and how to be found for people using a search engine. We're also thinking, what do we bring that's new that answers a question nobody else is answering?""This is like lava in a volcano in Hawaii. It's coming down the mountainside and building new islands.""People were always bouncing around to three or four places to validate something. Now we're seeing additional real estate be built for those interactions.""The pace of change is more radical than people are giving it credit for, and it's going to be more the same than people realize.""We can't live in what I call Pax Googliana, this era of peace where Google was the homepage of the internet. ChatGPT is arguably the homepage of the internet for a lot of people now. So is Grok.""About 90% of companies and agencies are leaning to buy solutions to implement AI rather than build.""In our family we have a saying: keep your knees bent. On boat day, if you're going to walk while the boat's moving, keep your knees bent. This is a keep your knees bent time.""Don't have a quarterly meeting where you commit super hard to one new thing on ChatGPT, because they may flip it tomorrow.""AI is too big a topic for a marketing coordinator, a marketing manager, and frankly a marketing director. Pushing it to one team member to figure out and bring back isn't good leadership.""Marketing can't fix bad operations going forward. In the past marketing could shore up a delivery problem by keeping the inbox full of opportunities. Now reputation is absolutely front and center.""Watch out for any one number that's a brand new metric that didn't exist six months ago, because that stuff's all just forming up right now.""Adaptability and flexibility is just part of the human animal. I really believe the next generation is going to do some amazing stuff."Michael's business, GoEpps: https://www.goepps.com/Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com 

In this episode of Some Goodness, host Richard Ellis welcomes Michael Stahl, CEO of Wombat Data, to discuss why acquisitions often destroy value due to poor execution in the six to 18 months after close. Stahl explains why integration should be treated as an ongoing function that connects the operating model with M&A strategy, especially to build scalable revenue operations and link organic and inorganic growth. He describes integration as a phased, long-tail process with feedback loops to test underwriting theses and refine ideal target profiles, emphasizing data and CRM/system integration as prerequisites for collaboration. The conversation covers go-to-market alignment issues such as coverage strategy, overlays, comp models, minimizing disruption, and encouraging collaboration, plus cultural due diligence focused on day-to-day management rigor and data-driven practices.Soundbites"There's no better way to identify areas that need improvement in a business than trying to explain to a company you buy how your business works.""You have to be able to clearly articulate how you run your business, how you run your sales motions, to be able to tell somebody else how to fold into it.""When we found it harder to explain or more difficult for a team to fold into, that's usually where we have to pay attention.""What happens in the corp dev decks and with the advisors doesn't always translate post close.""It's really important to acknowledge that it's a phased plan, that it also will feel a little awkward or clumsy at times as we bring two teams together.""It's not just change on the part of the target. It also requires change on the part of the buyer and the buyer's teams, because now we're bringing new people into the conversation.""We always wanted to try to err on the side of making decisions that were going to encourage collaboration rather than sort of be myopic and save in the short term.""A lot of the culture that I wanted to look at, particularly in a target, was how did they manage day to day. And was the way that we manage as a buyer going to be a culture shock for them?""Is the juice worth the squeeze here? Are we spending the right time on the deals that create the most value and align with the strategy of the company?""There's a phrase that I like. It sounds simple. It's just not easy.""That's how I define commitment with my team: awareness and intention. You have to be aware of what's going well, what's not, and then make intentional decisions about what to reinforce and where to course correct.""The data became the equalizer or the mediator."Michael's business, Wombat Data: https://wombatdata.comRichard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com 

Host Richard Ellis interviews Cody Lee, founder of Food Truck Club, a two-sided marketplace that makes booking food trucks for events fast and reliable across markets including Texas, Chicago, and Philadelphia; Cody explains how he “operationalized” an informal trusted intermediary in the food-truck ecosystem, why marketplaces require years to build trust on both sides, and how founder-level accountability restores loyalty. He shares an unconventional Amazon prospecting story, discusses market selection via demand/supply and culture, and closes with guidance that “sales is king” and trust must closely follow.Soundbites"You can build all the AI agents you want, we can have all the cool gadgets and CRMs out there, but you cannot replace trust." "Trust is built even faster when mistakes happen and get corrected than just doing what you should be doing." "Sales is king and trust is queen." "Businesses typically take a few years to get off the ground, but marketplaces take on average seven years to be successful. Because you're trying to really build that trust." "We say these names like Amazon or PepsiCo and we're trying to sell into these big names. But really it's Robert. It's Anne. There's somebody in there that just happens to work there that's a human. Even though they might have Deloitte in their email, it doesn't mean that they're anybody." "I made an Amazon hat. You can buy the Amazon vests on amazon.com. I dressed like an Amazon employee, and I just walked in and nobody asked any questions... And 80% of the time I made the sale." "Nobody is saying, 'Hey, my boss brought in pizza today' for the 100th time. Nobody's standing in front of the lunch room bragging in a selfie about the spread of Olive Garden in front of them. But everybody is posting a selfie in front of the food truck." "The problems are there, but we just become sort of blind to it... The problem and the solution were already existing the whole time. We just operationalized it and pushed it." "You just don't have people anymore visiting. You don't have people writing handwritten letters anymore. It sounds so small and basic that it seems like it wouldn't work, but it's the opposite." "I see a lot of leaders get stuck in the thick of thin things, and really get into the minutia of something that's good, not great." Cody’s business, Food Truck Club: https://app.foodtruckclub.com Richard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com 

Host Richard Ellis interviews Michael Stahl, CEO and founder of Wombat Data, about why executives still struggle to get real answers from data despite modern dashboards, data lakes, and BI tools.Stahl describes persistent issues across industries: siloed enterprise systems, closed or monetized APIs, difficult and costly integration, and the need to incorporate external datasets (e.g., CMS, demographic, geospatial) that are hard to organize and keep current. He explains the “streetlight effect,” where teams analyze only easily accessible data, and shares a healthcare example where layering drive-time and geospatial data helped explain patient no-shows.Stahl says new AI capabilities can automate access and integration without migrations, keeping data live and enabling leaders to focus on better questions, a clear data strategy, and a few vital business signals rather than KPI proliferation.Soundbites"Every executive has dashboards. Almost none have answers.""The parable is if somebody loses their keys, they actually look where the streetlight shines, because that's where the light is. But even if their keys may not be there, they look where they have the most ready access and visibility, even if that's not necessarily the best place to find good answers.""It's hard to know what you don't know.""You've got a very expensive Ferrari that's in the garage or just going to collect groceries, and we're not getting the highest and best use out of it.""Most people ready, fire, aim, and what you're asking them to do is ready, aim, fire.""We take the how off the table for you, and you can just focus on the why.""One data point may be interesting, but is oftentimes not useful. It's the collection of data points that actually helps us understand relationships.""What are the fewest variables that have the biggest impact and produce the clearest signal of success, health, and function in the team?""KPI proliferation or dashboard proliferation actually creates more confusion than clarity.""If you dig and come to a point where your business, your team doesn't have the data it needs, it's probably out there, and people can help you find it, and you can access it."Michael's business, Wombat Data: https://wombatdata.comRichard’s business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com 

Host Richard Ellis and guest Braydan Young (co-founder of Slash Experts, formerly of Sendoso) discuss why B2B buying signals look contradictory (Forrester’s view that ~90% of executives want to buy without talking to sales versus AI-native firms hiring SDRs) and what this means for sellers and leaders. They argue buyers increasingly research via reviews, backchannels, and pilots, and mainly avoid unhelpful reps. AI and avatars can compress the traditional SDR/AE/SE chain so one technical AE can do more, shifting roles toward technical SDRs and go-to-market engineers.They predict consolidation of point tools into all-in-one platforms while CRMs persist due to security and reliability. Practical advice includes partnerships (especially with consultants/agencies), in-person events, ignoring LinkedIn noise, and staying close to customers; they close by sharing personal fitness goals.Soundbites"Every day there's a new B2B AI tool that someone vibe coded or created. It's amazing how fast the space is moving.""They bought you and all your competition, and they're testing all of you and seeing which one sticks. And then at the end of that pilot phase, they leave you.""I think the line's 10 grand. If it's over 10 grand, you need a human in the loop.""It's not that they don't wanna talk to a rep, it's that they don't wanna talk to a bad rep." (Richard, paraphrasing the buyer shift)"You've talked to six people, and the deal size is 24K. That's too many. Your AE, your SDR, and your SE needs to be one person.""I think the traditional SDR will go away. But the more technical SDR will be a new job that folks will have.""If you have your own CRM that you built with AI and it goes down, it's on you. That's why I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon.""Selling through consultants and agencies is the best, 'cause they are far more trusted than your sales team. They talk about you on a phone call you're not on.""Try to do something crazy that's athletic at least once a year. When you're healthy and post-workout, I think way clearer, and that'll only help the company grow faster."Braydan's business, Slash Experts: https://slashexperts.com/Richard's business, Revenue Innovations: https://www.revenueinnovations.com/