643 — Bo Bengtson on Whippets and His Newest Book

Bridging the Gap Between Art and Science of Dog Breeding Host Laura Reeves is joined by Aimee Llewellyn Zaidi, project manager for the International Partnership for Dogs. Llewellyn Zaidi’s work is bridging the gap between art and science in dog breeding. They talk about inbreeding and genetic diversity, how those things go together and what you can do when there isn't a test for a health problem. [caption id="attachment_13097" align="alignleft" width="300"] Aimée Llewellyn-Zaidi and her Corgi.[/caption] “International Partnership for Dogs offers free resources for dog breeders and for vets to kind of give you some unbiased transparent guidance,” Llewellyn Zaidi said. “I am a third generation Pembroke Welsh Corgi owner. My grandparents had beef cattle in Oregon in the 1960s. They started their farm up in Silverton, Oregon. And my grandmother was a little bit of an Anglophile. And so she got two corgis back in the 70s in Oregon, which there weren't too many corgis out here then. “And she had these great aspirations of having them being working corgis and they worked really hard at cuddling. And they maybe, you know, barked at things, but yeah, they started as working dogs but were 100 % professional lap dogs, you know, as corgis really know how to do it. And I just never lost my love for the Pems. “I started working as a health manager for the Kennel Club in the UK (in 2012). And by the end of my time in the UK, I had developed a team and I was the head of health and research there, really focused on bringing evidence-based education resources to breeders and to the veterinary community and to breed advisors with lots and lots of tools and resources available. “I really wanted to take the science and kind of translate it into something practical. There wasn't a lot of in between at the time between researchers and the people who actually have to make the breeding decisions and that disconnect really bugged me. I think it really bugged me that there wasn't such an easy way for communication between really the art and the science of dog breeding, trying to bring those things a little bit closer together. “I want to take some of the mystery out of some of science or some of the resources that are available. I try to be really honest and transparent about what we know, what we don't know, what's still kind of out there, what things might be not the most ideal resources. “I feel like that honesty is the best way for people to be informed and to make ultimately the breeding decisions. You guys have the hard job. You have the job of deciding, right? So, I just want to give you information that can help you hopefully make those really informed decisions.”

Breeding a "Star" requires depth of knowledge Join host Laura Reeves for part two of her conversation with Cody Sickle, Cherokee Legend Bulldogs, breeder of Star, GCH Cherokee Legend Encore, BIS at the 2022 AKC National Championship. [caption id="attachment_13057" align="alignleft" width="442"] GCH Cherokee Legend Encore, “STAR”. Breeders-Cody T Sickle, Connie Chambers and Sherry HazelettOwners- Alaina Moulton, BJ Whitlow, and Kevin & Natalie MasonLe[/caption] "I think there's a lot of things to think about in breeding," Sickle said. "I think one of the things to really focus on in breeding is watch what everybody else is doing. Just like in picking puppies, knowledge makes a difference. Knowledge makes a difference in this too. Look who's breeding successfully. "I think most breeders would actually be better if they never owned a stud. Because I don't think most breeders have the fortitude, the self-control, not to think they're going to make their own stud famous. I think the best breeders think in terms of 'I don't care who owns this dog, if I think there's a stud out there that will improve my breeding program, even if I don't care for the people that own the dog at all, doesn't matter. I'm not marrying them, I'm breeding to their dog'. "And when you do a breeding, be honest about it. When I do a breeding, I don't have the idea that, well, I'm going to keep the best this or that out of the breeding. I don't think of that. I'll keep the best out of it if it's good enough. But just because it's out of two dogs that I have a high regard for if the puppies aren't good enough, move on. "We will frequently do grandfather to granddaughter breedings. I've only once done a brother and sister breeding. And it turned out to be wonderful, but they were the only brother and sister I've ever seen in our breed that I would have considered breeding together. "We've been fortunate to have good studs. And a good measure of that is the last 40 years for the national specialty at least one Cherokee stud is behind every single breed winner. And that impresses me. And a lot of the record stuff doesn't impress me. "I think the future of Bulldogs in general is good. Bulldogs are a wonderful family dog. Not every family, you know, if you're a family of athletes who's going to go out running the marathon every weekend, Bulldog's not the right dog. If you want a dog that is going to be a terrific family pet, love everybody, get along with everybody. A bulldog is an excellent dog. They're just nice dogs. "I think we are so fortunate to have the sport of dog shows. For a lot of us, it's a major part of our lives and has been for the major part of our lives. But I like the dogs, I like the competition, I like the people, I like the camaraderie. There's no place that I feel more comfortable than a dog show, and that's because of the people for sure, and as much complaining as we see on social media, I think it's a wonderful sport."

Veterinary Advice on Free Whelping Following C-Section Dr. Marty Greer joins host Laura Reeves for a deep dive on the question of when your female has had a C-section and you breed her again. Is it safe to have the bitch whelp her puppies naturally? This question comes from a listener request. “The most important thing to ask is why did you have a C-section in the first place,” Greer said. “If you had a C-section in the first place, because she's a Bernese Mountain Dog or because she's a Bulldog or a Frenchie or maybe a Clumber or a Corgi, some of the breeds that are more commonly having their puppies by c-section, you still have a Clumber or a Bulldog. They didn't change breeds while they were pregnant, so that's the most important reason. “Secondly. What were the other reasons? Did she just have too many puppies? If she had 14 and she's going to have eight this time, yeah, that's a whole different conversation. If she had a puppy that was oversized or misdirected, that's a different conversation. But it's going to depend on what happened previously. So you really need to have a good history on what went on when this last C-section was done. “Statistically, according to the numbers, 75% of the time the bitch has the C-section because of a bitch cause and 25% are a puppy cause. So that kind of gives you some numbers to work with is 3/4 of the time you're probably going to need another C-section, but 1/4 of the time it was an anasarca puppy, it was a misdirected puppy, it was oversized, it had some other kind of a birth defect, two were coming at the same time, so you had a log jam. I mean you just have to try and sort that out. “That's the general thought. It's “V-back” on the human side, it's vaginal birth after C-section, V-back. So most of the time you absolutely can go ahead. From a safety perspective, there’s reason to believe that it's going to be unsafe. You assume that the veterinarian did a nice job closing the uterus. “What I always kind of laugh about is when veterinarians say, ‘ohh, the uterus was paper thin when I did her C-section. You can never have another litter.’ OK, you take a uterus and you put 14 puppies in it and you stretch it out like a pair of old pantyhose and you wonder why it's paper thin. It's supposed to be thin. That's the way your stomach looks after Thanksgiving dinner. That's the way your bladder looks when you need to go to the restroom. That's the way the organ works. It stretches out and it becomes thinner, but that doesn't mean that it's so thin that she can't have a normal pregnancy and a normal vaginal birth.”

Famed Bulldog breeder-owner-handler Cody Sickle joins host Laura Reeves for the first of a two-part series on owner-handlers, dog shows, Bulldogs, breeding and camaraderie. [caption id="attachment_13037" align="alignleft" width="399"] CHEROKEE LEGEND NOR’EASTER DEREKLong Island Bulldog Club Specialty. Winners Dog & Best of Winners. Judge: Phoebe Booth[/caption] Sickle's renowned Cherokee Bulldogs have quite a record. According to his records, he has bred or owned 256 Champions, more than any other Bulldog breeder ever in the USA. His dogs have won 99 All Breed Bests In Show and 591 Bests In Specialty Show, five National Specialty Bests Of Breed and 15 Westminster Kennel Club Bests of Breed. All of which rank as #1 all-time results in the breed. Sickle says he knew he wanted a Bulldog from the time he was 5 years old. His parents said he had to pay for it himself. So he skipped going to the movies, did extra jobs, saved his allowance and finally was able to purchase his first dog for $60. "I find the Bulldog people are terrific," Sickle said. "They are just as you say. We go in the ring, we're competing with each other and we're obviously all trying to win. When it's over, it's over. We are all friends when it's over. We are a good representative of what sportsmanship should be almost all the time. There are exceptions, but not very many. "I've listened to people say, well, you know, the Bulldog people are good, but this breed is not. I'm not intimately familiar with the interactions of people in other breeds. But I am very into the dog people in general and the dog people in general are helpful. [caption id="attachment_13036" align="alignright" width="403"] Cody Sickle with CH. CHEROKEE MORGAN. Best In Show…Penn Ridge Kennel Club. Judge: James Warwick. August 1969[/caption] "I've never once in my life went up to any dog person and said tell me about this or tell me about that and had them say no, not ever. And when I was 13 years old, I used to hang around the handlers. Richard Bauer when Jimmy Mitchell was his assistant. Wendell Sammett when Paul Edwards was his assistant. Peter Green, the Forsyths, they were all terrific. They were all perfectly willing to share their knowledge. They're perfectly willing to answer all my questions, and my questions were incessant. "The Bulldog people were the same way. One of the benefits about the Bulldog people being good people is that, in order to learn I think it's necessary to speak to lots of people. Because people have different views. Some people just can't communicate what you're trying to learn and sometimes whatever they're saying, even though it's just right on, it doesn't register properly. So if you ask everybody and work at weeding out what sounds like nonsense and keeping what sounds like it's valuable, you're going to learn a lot more."

Building Blocks to Success in the Ring and the Whelping Box Host Laura Reeves is joined by breeder-handler Christian Rutten in part two of a wide-ranging conversation touching on some of the critical building blocks to success in both the show ring and the whelping box. On Owner Handler vs Professional Handler [caption id="attachment_13028" align="alignleft" width="358"] We all started somewhere. Christian reminds us we are all at a dog show for the same reason. To win and to have fun with our dogs.[/caption] “One of the things people say is ‘I just went to a dog show for 10 straight shows and I didn't get any ribbons. And that it's all political. And the handlers have the upper edge.’ I did the math because I was at a big string of shows and I walked in the ring 28 times and won two majors. This (other person) didn't go into the ring 28 times in the year and she didn't win any majors. So (handlers) have the opportunity to present a lot more dogs. So, although it looks like we're receiving a lot more ribbons, but we're also going to a lot more shows. On Selecting Judges “There are judges who I've taken a barrage of type and styles to over a multitude of times, and I can never get past them. And that's fine. I just don't necessarily want to ever exhibit under them again. And there's other judges who are consistent as all get out. And you'll say, well, they're judging in North Carolina today and you look at their results and they put up litter mate to what you showed to them the week before that went winner’s bitch. And so I think finding that kind of balance of knowing what those judges are going to put up, if you can bring that to them every time, they're going to love it. “For me, there's probably 20 people that I really seek out to show what I think are the best of what I have. The rest of them are just there and just kind of doing their thing, right? I don't want people to get burned out on the fact that maybe they're not winning, maybe they shouldn't, right? That's fine. But maybe they're mentor says this is a great one. And what's holding you back is your ability and the judges you're exhibiting to. And once you figure that out and you find the right judges who appreciate that style, you've got the golden ticket. It's a fine line between understanding that not everybody who's putting the finger are experts. You need to become an expert yourself first and do this for yourself. And then from there, that's when the success comes. “I think that people, they want The Polar Express ticket to dreamland instead of just take the train and enjoy the view and the destination is worth it once you get there. On Dog Show Basics [caption id="attachment_13029" align="alignright" width="528"] Christian brings basic husbandry and manners to the forefront of the conversation.[/caption] “First one is you never leave a dog on a table unattended. Seems like a very simple thing to a lot of us, but some people are never taught that. The second thing is don't leave dogs in ex pens unattended. You're asking for a disaster to happen. I see this from owner handlers to breeders to professional handlers. “The other thing is, and this is a big one for me, and I kind of thought it was standard and I'm seeing it less and less. Congratulate the winners. I have probably walked into, I couldn't tell you, thousands of rings from juniors as an owner handler, as a breeder owner handler, as a professional handler. I could maybe count on one hand the amount of times I didn't say congratulations. If you're in a full group, whether it's the owner handler group, or the regular group, you don't have to shake everybody's hand, all you got to do is walk up to the winner and say Congratulations."

The Conversation at the Top is Different: Finding a Mentor [caption id="attachment_13021" align="alignleft" width="482"] Christian Rutten with one of his top winning Golden Retrievers.[/caption] Breeder-handler Christian Rutten joins host Laura Reeves to encourage new exhibitors and breeders in finding a mentor. “I think the biggest mistake people make is they cut corners,” Rutten said. “They find the people who are sitting and just have a lot of downtime because they're easy to talk to. But what you need to do is go to the top. The conversation at the top is different. “Everybody's collaborating ‘who can do this for what and what reason.’ The conversation at the bottom is usually, ‘it's crooked... Oh, my dog is perfect and that one isn't.’ “I would say that the most successful breeders of any breed are way more critical on their own dogs than there are of anybody else's. When they say, you know, my dog is the greatest that's ever been and the other one only wins because of who shows it, that's problematic. “You need to be self -reflective about what is this dog's strength and weaknesses. And you know what? If you go ask a judge, right, you lost and you aren't sure why. And you go ask the judge and the judge says, well, he didn't ask for it on the day or the other dog showed better or whatever it is. I just discard that. "When they say, you know, I wish your dog had a little better shoulder, a little bit shorter back, you could use a little bit stronger muzzle, and gets into the finite details, those are the people whose words you hang on, and from there you move forward. So look for the people who are extra critical first, not angry because they lost, but extra critical. And I think if you approach any judge from a standpoint of questioning, ‘what was it that you liked about the other dog better than my dog today,’ they'll be honest with you. [caption id="attachment_13022" align="alignright" width="394"] Christian started at ground zero in Junior Showmanship and worked his way up through the ranks.[/caption] “Where do you start from ground zero? First thing, anybody, whether you've done dogs for 20 years or you're just starting, go to YouTube and look at Dog Steps. It's not breed specific, right? It's just about basic anatomy and how it works in motion. “The other thing is attend the largest specialties and the nationals that you can and see a broad array (of dogs). If your breed has an illustrated standard, keep that. Go and you seek out those breeders that are just kind of next level. A, I want you to seek out the best breeder there is. B, trust their judgment. But C, be happy if you don't have the Best in Show winner because when you get handed that Best in Show winner on a golden platter, you cannot figure out what it takes to make it. “I wrote a thing one time that says sacrifices are made in the whelping box to preserve and protect individual pieces, not to breed just for winners, right? And that's the thing. Talk to your breeder, what are the health issues that you face and how are you kind of navigating that in your breeding program? “There's a fine line between discarding everybody's opinion and asking everyone and absorbing as much knowledge as you can. There's 20 ways to get to the bus stop, but getting on the bus and going to your destination is on you.”

Puppies and Kids: Expert Insight on Best Practices Dr. Marty Greer, DVM and host Laura Reeves talk about bringing home your new puppy, introducing it to your children, how puppies and children interact appropriately, and how to make that be a really positive experience. “The first place I would start,” Greer said, “is if you don't already have a breed that you have selected and you have children, pick a breed that's good with kids. “You know, why start off with something that's likely to set you up for a failure when you could get, oh, let's say a Labrador or a Golden Retriever, which are notoriously outgoing, happy dogs, and, you know, they're just easy to live with. They're great dogs to have her own children. So, you know, don't start off, and I don't want to badmouth anybody's breed, so I'm not going to specifically call up breeds that aren't good, but don't start off with a dog that you have concerns about. “Start out with something that’s happy, friendly, outgoing and was raised in an environment that’s likely to be successful. “There are situations where if the kids are inappropriate with the dog or really afraid of the dog or the parents aren't working well with the children, that I just simply have to say to them, ‘you know, this is probably not a good match. Let me help you find another breeder.’ “For starters, I don't leave the children and the dog unattended ever until maybe the dog's five. That's what what XPens are for. That's what playpens are for. That's what crates are for. And you can put X-Pens up across doorways. “And it's also a great way to introduce a dog to children or a puppy to children. And vice versa, they can see each other without the puppy jumping on the child, without the child shrieking, without the child having a meltdown, or without the child doing something else that's inappropriate with the dog. So it's a really safe way to start off is for them to see each other and interact with one another, but through the xpen or through the crate.” Marty and Laura talk through dog body language, bite inhibition training in baby puppies and the sheer joy of kids and dogs raised together. [caption id="attachment_13012" align="alignnone" width="674"] The Dog Body Language Chart Marty Greer recommends.[/caption]

Sheila Goffe On the CDC's Importation Regulations Sheila Goffe, AKC Vice President of Government Relations, joins host Laura Reeves to discuss the CDC's soon to be implemented rule about importing dogs into the US. Goffe provides background on retail rescue as the impetus for CDC's regulations, the work AKC, NAIA and other stake holders have provided to the CDC and the most recent update to the rule. "CDC put out an announcement saying that they heard the concerns about the rabies certificate," Goffe said. "Remember they had (originally) required that you had not only a rabies certificate, but a rabies from a USDA or Canadian accredited vet. So it's not just like your regular vet. It's like, OK, I have to go find basically the same vet I would go to if I'm importing a dog to another country. "So that veterinarian-specific requirement, they have dropped that requirement. As of now, they're saying that all you need to enter the United States with a dog from Canada or another low risk rabies free country is an import form. It's now available online. You can fill it out online. It takes less than 10 minutes. You're going to have a picture of your dog on it. You know, a little bit of information about you and an attestation that this dog has not been outside of a rabies free, low risk country for the last six months. Dogs still need to be at least six months of age to enter the US from any country, Goffe added. "Blame the irresponsible importers," Goffe said, "because frankly, they claimed to be us. They claim to be personally owned dogs. And now CDC is saying we can't tell the difference. So where we need to go with CDC is create a solution where we can say 'we can tell you the difference, we can show you what we do that those folks would never be able to do. We can show you that this dog has been registered from a registered litter. You know, we can demonstrate this dog was at the vet at two days old getting dewclaws removed. I can prove to you this dog was here in this country and it has not gone to Azerbaijan and come back." Goffe encourages exhibitors and breeders to reach out to their representatives to share their concerns. Find resources HERE.  

Host Laura Reeves is joined by Bo Bengtson, legendary breeder, judge and author of The Whippet: An Authoritative Look at the Breed’s Past, Present and Future. Questions for Bo: [caption id="attachment_12997" align="alignleft" width="490"] Bo Bengtson judging the American Whippet Club National Specialty.[/caption] 1) This is your fourth edition of the quintessential book, “The Whippet,” first published in 1985. What made you want to update it again? What will readers find that is new? I guess it's pretty unusual for a dog book that was published that long ago to be reprinted, but it was last published in a much enlarged edition in 2010 and so much has happened in Whippets in the last 15 years! Whippets have become one of the most popular breeds at many shows: Crufts in England has had about 400 for the last few years, only Labs and Goldens have more... I have judged a show with 250 Whippets in Sweden, they have a Sighthound show in Germany that has 235 Whippets as a top figure, and it has become amazingly popular in many countries where you wouldn't necessarily expect it: the big shows in e.g. Poland all have more than 100 exhibits NOW.  The 2024 FCI World Dog Show was held in Croatia last month and there were 171 Whippets entered, which is fairly typical figure for the World Shows. And there are over 6,000 entries from the Czech Republic alone to the Internet's Whippet  Archive, so that's probably the  next big Whippet country!  USA doesn't have the biggest registration figures, but the American Whippet Club holds a National Specialty in April every year that is the largest in the world, sometimes with more than 600 Whippets present and over 1,200 entries.  I made a point of including all countries that have affected the world population in some way. Did you know that there is a world class Whippet breeder in South Korea that often wins in Europe and works with American bloodllines? I read parts of that 1985 book recently … It's not a bad little book for its time and a lot of the content is in later editions also, but it's fairly typical of breed books then, both in scope and size. Not many photos and all black and white, but I'll always remember how proud I was to get into Foyles Bookstore on Charing Cross Road in London and seeing my book on the shelf there! To get back to the new book, I'm so grateful that Denise Flaim convinced me to update it! The book is available both on Amazon and via Denise's RevodanaPublishing.com —they did a beautiful job: the book is much bigger than I expected — I don't know why I didn't expect that because I know that we added a lot of text and about 200 photos of winners from the last 15 years. Anyway, it weighs about 3.25 pounds, covers 530 pages, and when I took an advance copy to the National specialty in Tennessee in April, one reader actually started to cry because it was so beautiful!!  2) Share with our listeners some of the fascinating breed history you have gathered over the years, from its humble beginnings hunting hares, to its popularity as “the poor man’s greyhound,” to today. Well, of course the Whippet became popularly known as the favorite dog of the poor mining families in the North of England in the 1800s. There was organized racing with considerable sums to the winners, so of course the dogs were really well taken care of and in fact fed much better than the people. What's really amazing is how many people turned out to watch the races: there are some grainy black and white films still in existence from the late 1800s, and they prove...

Espen Engh Offers a Master Class on Dog Breeding Famed Norwegian Greyhound breeder and judge, Espen Engh, is back with host Laura Reeves offering a Master Class on dog breeding. “When we started out, there was a combination of two very different British strains that had proven that it worked really worked,” Engh said. “Those two breeders were at the end of their career and they hadn't mixed their dogs a lot while they were still active. But some very clever breeder very quickly found out that combining those two lines worked extremely well and produced dogs that had been almost unheard of before truly high quality. “So we collected different crosses between those two lines to combine our own strain to start out with. And I do think it helped a lot that my mother had been active in the breed for 20 years before breeding the first litter. She had been judging for many years as well. We didn't have to do a lot of the beginner's mistakes. So from day one, we were able to start at a high note. “When the breeder repeated (that successful breeding of two disparate lines) by luck or persistence, we were able to buy what we considered to be the best bitch in that repeat litter. And she turned out to be just as good as or probably better than those puppies from that first combination. So we were able to start with a really phenomenal bitch. “We had a phenomenal male at the time too. He was runner up top dog all breeds in Norway. And maybe if we were amateurs, or if my mother was an amateur, we would have bred those two together, but they didn't really fit. We would double up on faults. The male turned out not to be a good stud dog at all. And we had lots and lots of litters for other breeders. We never used him. So rather than using that top winning really beautiful dog, which didn't fit the bitch, we didn't do that from the start. “So our first combination was quite successful and we got an outstanding bitch in that first combination. And then we quite quickly realized that in order to progress, you know, now we have like two generations of phenomenal bitches, we would never be able to be big breeders number wise. We didn't have a big kennel, we didn't have the style, the facilities to breed dogs on a large scale. So we had to make a system where you can actually breed successfully from a limited number of dogs. “And I thought, why not just base it on breeding from the very best bitch of each generation? And that's what we did. When we were at the most active, we would have three or preferably four litters from the very best bitch of each generation. “As Greyhounds are very fertile, you'll get an average of like 10 puppies or nine, 10, 11, 12 puppies. Each of those top bitches would then have 20 daughters to choose from. I mean, in every litter, we would keep all the bitches that were thought were good enough. Most of them never just one, two or three. And we'd run them on until they were fully grown so we would know for sure who was the best. And selected the best bitch of each generation and repeated that. “Now, if the mother is great, the grandmother is great and the great -grandmother is great, you're very likely to get the really good one out of 20 bitch puppies, aren't you? But We also need some males to breed them to. “We also chose the second-best bitch in the generation. Remember the mother had four litters, she would be bred to four different males. We selected the second-best bitch from each generation, preferably a half-sister to the main bitch, which I call the alpha bitch. So the second best bitch, the beta bitch, we would try outcrosses on her.”