Ep 338 Gaslighting or Emotional Invalidation? Understanding the Difference

Zach’s shares his pedicure obsession. Laura has a rousing night with a bunch of Cathys at the senior center.  After Laura attended Zach's Relationship Boot Camp she has questions about the concept of a Core Negative Image (CNI) and how it affects relationships. Zach and Laura unpack how each partner’s perceptions, often rooted in past experiences or insecurities, can lead to exaggerated negative views of one another, especially during periods of stress. They also discuss rituals for client sessions, with Laura emphasizing the importance of taking responsibility for actions and acknowledging positive efforts, helping clients shift from criticism to affirmation. Episode Highlights: Exploring Core Negative Images (CNI): They delve into the concept of CNI, discussing how we sometimes assign exaggerated negative traits to our partners, especially when stressed or triggered. Relationship Boot Camp Insights: Laura reflects on attending Zach’s relationship boot camp and highlights practical techniques for managing conflict and improving communication. Rituals in Therapy Sessions: Laura shares her new client session ritual, which includes acknowledging positive efforts and taking responsibility for missteps, promoting empathy and connection. Sponsor: Practice love every day with Paired, the #1 app for couples. Download the app at https://www.paired.com/MTR50 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach shares of his first-time experience with Dungeons and Dragons. Laura is looking forward to a murder mystery party.  They then explore the dynamics of acknowledging and meeting your partner's expressed needs, using a story from Laura’s therapy practice as a springboard to discuss the significance of understanding each other's boundaries and preferences. Zach and Laura examine the role of emotional responses in relationships, particularly around anger and justified reactions. They emphasize the importance of differentiating between feeling attacked and being attacked, highlighting how trauma and personal history can sometimes cause a partner to perceive threats where none exist. They also discuss the concept of “getting big” to protect oneself and how trauma work—especially body-focused approaches—can aid in emotional regulation. The episode concludes with reflections on long-term commitment, the value of patience in relational healing, and the realities of navigating relationships with a trauma-affected partner. They end on a light note, inviting listeners to explore their Patreon for bonus content, including personal stories and Zach’s book club. Episode Highlights: Acknowledging Partner’s Needs: Laura shares a story about a couple dealing with a move due to one partner’s mental health needs, opening up a discussion on balancing personal needs with relationship commitments. Differentiating Feeling Attacked from Being Attacked: Zach and Laura explore how trauma can shape a person’s perception of conflict, offering insights on how partners can respond thoughtfully rather than reactively. “Getting Big” to Protect Yourself: They discuss how partners sometimes amplify their reactions to feel more secure, emphasizing the importance of finding healthy expressions of anger and frustration. Patience in Relational Healing: Laura reflects on a partner’s question about when their relationship will feel “normal” again, underscoring that healing is often a slow process requiring empathy and grace. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Laura has her first snow of the year, and on her morning run no less. Zach thanks you for listening and shares his admiration for another podcaster.  They transition into a great conversation about how partners can communicate and take responsibility in meeting each other’s needs. Laura shares a personal story about her relationship with her husband, Ryan, highlighting the tension that arises when Ryan commits to activities, like golf trips, without considering the impact on family time. This sparks a larger conversation about how partners can navigate commitments and balance personal interests with family responsibilities. They explore the concept of taking responsibility in a relationship, with Zach emphasizing the importance of reporting back to your partner about how you’re honoring their requests and commitments. Zach and Laura also discuss the role of empathy and how partners can preemptively check in on each other's feelings and needs. They reflect on how simple acts, like acknowledging a partner’s feelings or proactively addressing concerns, can prevent conflicts from escalating. The episode offers practical insights into how couples can take small but meaningful steps to improve communication and build trust. Episode Highlights: Balancing Commitments in Relationships: Laura shares her experience with Ryan’s golf trips, exploring the tension between supporting personal activities and maintaining family balance. Taking Responsibility in a Relationship: Zach explains the importance of reporting back to your partner about honoring requests, ensuring that both partners feel heard and respected. Empathy and Preemptive Communication: They dive into how checking in with your partner before an issue arises can prevent unnecessary conflict and strengthen connection. How to Respond with Gratitude Instead of Reactivity: Laura discusses how responding with gratitude, even in moments of frustration, can help build a stronger emotional bond with your partner. Trust and Transparency in Relationships: Zach and Laura explore how transparency about decisions and actions, even small ones, can help build trust over time. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach and Laura kick off this episode with some fun banter about Laura's outfit and a Zoom-themed party Zach attended with their mutual friend. They quickly shift gears to discuss the feedback they’ve been receiving from long-time listeners. With heartfelt messages from those who’ve listened to every episode, they reflect on the value their show has brought to people’s lives. Zach asks: How has listening to every episode of Marriage Therapy Radio impacted your life or relationships? Laura shares a realization of how powerful affirmation can be, whether it’s with a spouse, children, or even teachers greeting students. This leads to her marriage tip of the day: Affirm someone today. Zach and Laura dive into a TV show they've been watching, Nobody Wants This, which sparks a rich discussion about the dynamics of vulnerability, communication, and relationships depicted in the show. They explore themes of openness, accepting influence, and navigating the tension between personal identity and compromise within relationships. Zach relates moments from the show to real-life relationship dynamics, offering insights on how viewers can learn from the fictional couple’s journey. Episode Highlights: Listener Shoutouts and Affirmation: Zach and Laura share feedback from listeners who have listened to every episode, reflecting on the impact of the podcast. Marriage Tip: Affirm Someone Today: Laura encourages listeners to take a moment to affirm someone, noting how powerful simple recognition can be in relationships and everyday interactions. Insights from Nobody Wants This: Zach and Laura dive into their analysis of the TV show Nobody Wants This, discussing themes of vulnerability, relationship dynamics, and the importance of communication. They draw parallels between the show’s characters and real-life couples. Join the Conversation: Zach and Laura invite you to reach out if the podcast has impacted your relationships or if you’ve found certain episodes particularly meaningful. They also encourage you to check out Nobody Wants This and watch it through the lens of relationship growth. Sponsor: Practice love every day with Paired, the #1 app for couples. Download the app at https://www.paired.com/MTR50 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach and Laura kick off this episode with some fun banter about Laura's outfit and a Zoom-themed party Zach attended with their mutual friend. They quickly shift gears to discuss the feedback they’ve been receiving from long-time listeners. With heartfelt messages from those who’ve listened to every episode, they reflect on the value their show has brought to people’s lives. Zach asks: How has listening to every episode of Marriage Therapy Radio impacted your life or relationships? Laura shares a realization of how powerful affirmation can be, whether it’s with a spouse, children, or even teachers greeting students. This leads to her marriage tip of the day: Affirm someone today. Zach and Laura dive into a TV show they've been watching, Nobody Wants This, which sparks a rich discussion about the dynamics of vulnerability, communication, and relationships depicted in the show. They explore themes of openness, accepting influence, and navigating the tension between personal identity and compromise within relationships. Zach relates moments from the show to real-life relationship dynamics, offering insights on how viewers can learn from the fictional couple’s journey. Episode Highlights: Listener Shoutouts and Affirmation: Zach and Laura share feedback from listeners who have listened to every episode, reflecting on the impact of the podcast. Marriage Tip: Affirm Someone Today: Laura encourages listeners to take a moment to affirm someone, noting how powerful simple recognition can be in relationships and everyday interactions. Insights from Nobody Wants This: Zach and Laura dive into their analysis of the TV show Nobody Wants This, discussing themes of vulnerability, relationship dynamics, and the importance of communication. They draw parallels between the show’s characters and real-life couples. Join the Conversation: Zach and Laura invite you to reach out if the podcast has impacted your relationships or if you’ve found certain episodes particularly meaningful. They also encourage you to check out Nobody Wants This and watch it through the lens of relationship growth. Sponsor: Practice love every day with Paired, the #1 app for couples. Download the app at https://www.paired.com/MTR50 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach and Laura celebrate a special milestone—seven years of Marriage Therapy Radio. They kick things off with some lighthearted banter about their journey, joking about sending out autographed glamour shots. From there, they dive into a listener email from a woman navigating an in-home separation from her husband, who she suspects may be engaging in secretive behavior. They explore the complexities of separation, emphasizing the importance of clear boundaries, purpose, and communication. Whether you're in a separation or just curious, Zach and Laura share insights on how separation can lead to healing or more confusion, depending on how it’s handled. Zach raises concerns about secretive behavior, like hiding phone activity, often being a signal of deeper issues, and they give practical advice on addressing distrust in relationships. They also talk about the value of having a separation agreement, with clear guidelines for how you’ll navigate this period. Laura encourages you to trust your gut when something feels "off", and approach the situation with curiosity rather than accusations. Zach reminds you that taking leadership by setting expectations and boundaries can help reestablish trust and connection. Episode Highlights: Celebrating Seven Years of Marriage Therapy Radio: Zach and Laura reflect on seven years of podcasting, sharing playful moments and celebrating their journey with you. The Complexities of Separation: They break down how to navigate an in-home separation, stressing the need for clear boundaries and a shared purpose to avoid further emotional turmoil. Addressing Secretive Behavior in Relationships: Zach and Laura give you advice on how to confront suspicious behavior—like hiding phone activity—and how to have honest conversations about trust. Separation as a Tool for Healing: They explain that separation doesn’t have to lead to divorce, but can instead be used for personal growth and healing if you approach it with care and intention. Taking Leadership in Relationships: Zach encourages you to take a leadership role by setting clear expectations and boundaries during difficult times, which can model healthy behaviors for your children. Join the Conversation: If you have a relationship question or a story to share, Zach and Laura would love to hear from you. You can send in your questions for future episodes! Also, check out the upcoming online Relational Life Therapy Boot Camp that Zach will be co-leading. More details are available on the Marriage Therapy Radio website. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Laura shares her pride in completing a triathlon and Zach chimes in with his marathon experiences. The discussion transitions into deeper relationship topics, focusing on how to apologize effectively and, just as importantly, how to receive an apology. Zach emphasizes that successful relationships are not just about knowing how to apologize, but also about knowing how to accept a partner’s apology. They explore common pitfalls in apologizing, such as using the word “but,” and highlight how defensiveness can block genuine repair efforts. The hosts reference the work of Harriet Lerner and her book Why Won’t You Apologize? to guide their discussion on the do’s and don’ts of apologizing. Key points include avoiding justification in apologies, focusing on one’s own actions, and not using an apology to manipulate or silence a partner’s feelings. They conclude with reflections on the importance of patience and openness, particularly when building trust and navigating long-term emotional injuries. Episode Highlights: How to Apologize Effectively: Laura breaks down the steps to making a meaningful apology, emphasizing the importance of owning your actions and avoiding justifications that can diminish the apology’s impact. Receiving an Apology: Zach explains how receiving an apology with gratitude is a crucial part of repair, allowing space for ongoing healing even if the hurt is not immediately resolved. Avoiding the “But” in Apologies: Laura highlights how using “but” in an apology can negate the acknowledgment of harm and frustrate repair attempts. Building Trust Through Repeated Repairs: The discussion emphasizes that long-term healing in relationships is only possible through repeated, genuine efforts to repair and demonstrate change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Laura finds out how Zach did hanging out with her family over the weekend.  Zach shares his struggle between choosing a trendy neighborhood or staying in a corporate setting, leading into a conversation about how environments can affect work and client experiences. They then discuss relational boundaries and the concept of outsourcing emotional needs. Laura explains how people often put too much pressure on their partner to fulfill all their emotional needs, advocating instead for "outsourcing" some emotional support to friends, therapists, or family members—when done with mutual consent. Zach and Laura also reflect on the pressures partners can feel when they are expected to meet specific needs, especially around physical and emotional intimacy. They share a couple of sneak peek clips of the new, Patreon exclusive series, So I Married a Relationship Expert. Episode Highlights: Zach’s Office Dilemma: Zach debates between two office locations—one in a corporate setting and the other in a trendy neighborhood—offering insights into decision-making and how change affects routine. Outsourcing Emotional Needs: Laura explains the importance of seeking support outside the relationship, advocating for healthy outsourcing of emotional needs when a partner can’t meet every need, with mutual consent. Effort vs. Excellence in Relationships: Zach shares a story about a couple where one partner feels validated not because of perfection, but because of the effort made in the relationship. They emphasize how important it is to acknowledge effort even when outcomes aren’t perfect. Acceptance in Relationships: Laura reflects on how some couples reach a point where acceptance of their partner’s limitations is key to maintaining a healthy relationship, rather than continually pushing for unmet needs to be fulfilled. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach and Laura discuss the launch of their new book, Reconnect, and how couples can use it to improve their relationship.  They delve into an in-depth discussion on the concept of gaslighting, clarifying that it involves malicious, intentional manipulation—far different from the common emotional invalidation many couples experience.  Episode Highlights: How to Use Reconnect: Zach and Laura suggest couples can work through the book slowly, section by section, or use it more casually, dipping into exercises or conversations as needed. They emphasize flexibility in how the book is used to foster meaningful conversations and connection. Gaslighting vs. Emotional Invalidation: They break down the difference between true gaslighting and more common relational behaviors, like emotional invalidation. They stress that many couples mislabel situations as gaslighting when, in fact, they involve misunderstandings or disagreements about past events. Parallel Universes Technique: Zach shares a therapeutic approach where he helps couples understand that their different realities may never align. He introduces the idea of “parallel universes” as a way for partners to acknowledge each other’s feelings without requiring complete agreement on the facts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Zach is feeling bad that his mustache has garnered very little attention. Laura thinks he should keep it. Zach reports back on his experience with his daughter at the  Dave Matthew's Band show. They go on to discuss a bit of some conflict they had right before starting to record. It leads to some great insight into managing one's behavior and reactions even when they are a well-worn habit.  Episode Highlights: Managing Defensiveness and Criticism: Zach and Laura explore the recurring dynamic of defensiveness and criticism in their own friendship, with Zach noting that managing his defensiveness is one of the most important skills for him maintaining a healthy relationship. They emphasize the importance of pausing and choosing how to respond rather than reacting immediately. Confirmation Bias in Relationships: The hosts discuss how confirmation bias can skew perceptions in relationships, using a client story to illustrate how one partner might misinterpret their partner’s behavior based on past experiences. The takeaway is to pause and challenge assumptions, asking open-ended questions instead of jumping to conclusions. Relationships as Growth Machines: Laura mentions a phrase from her colleague that “relationships are human growing machines.” The idea is that relationships constantly challenge us to grow, reflect, and improve. The hosts emphasize that relational growth takes time, patience, and a willingness to embrace discomfort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices