19: Standing out in a ‘sea of sameness’: Insights from Tati Lindenberg, chief brand officer at Dirt Is Good

How can brands use innovation to stand out and improve the customer experience?    Alan Hart sits down with Lisa Tan, chief marketing and strategy officer at Reverie, a sleep technology company, on a mission to improve lives through the power of sleep. Together, they explore how brands can leverage technology and creative strategies to improve customer experience and stand out in competitive markets.   Lisa highlights the Reverie Innovation Summit, describing how this event not only showcases emerging sleep technologies and ideas but also helps deepen relationships with key industry collaborators. The Innovation Summit plays a key role in Reverie's approach by serving as a platform for collaboration, knowledge sharing, and goal alignment. Reverie’s approach to sleep technology goes beyond product innovation and focuses on transforming the customer experience. By integrating advanced sleep technology solutions, Reverie helps ensure that every customer interaction is personalized and impactful.    Lisa also explains how integrating artificial intelligence (AI) and advanced marketing tech stacks enables Reverie to understand and engage their audiences better. Throughout the conversation, she emphasizes the importance of business relationships, continuous learning, and adapting to ever-evolving consumer behaviors to create lasting connections.    In this episode, you'll learn:  Creative approaches Reverie uses to enhance customer experience when working with distributors    The importance of marketers understanding their organization’s tech stack    How Reverie uses an in-person summit to gather feedback and promote innovation in sleep technology    Key quote:  “As a CMO of a SMB [small and medium business], being able to understand, like really understand how all of the tech stack works and integrates is critical for success.” - Lisa Tan, chief marketing and strategy officer at Reverie      Key highlights:  [00:30] Introduction     [01:25] Growing up in Los Alamos    [02:55] Lisa’s path to Reverie    [05:50] Reverie’s sleep technology origins    [07:55] The evolution and scope of the business     [11:35] Reverie’s go-to-market strategy    [13:20] Reverie’s direct-to-consumer strategy    [14:55] The role of technology in customer experience    [18:20] Why marketers must understand the tech    [19:55] Reverie Innovation Summit    [24:25] An experience that defines you: Time spent waiting and wandering    [26:20] Advice to your younger self: Don’t be afraid to be a beginner    [27:10] A topic marketers need to learn more about: Human motivation and trends     [28:55] Subcultures and trends to follow: Childhood cosmetic obsessions    [32:00] Largest opportunity and threat to marketers today:  AI    Resources mentioned:    Reverie  MIT AI study    Follow the podcast:    Listen on Apple Podcasts    Listen on Amazon Music   Listen on Audible   Listen on iHeart Radio  Listen on Spotify      Connect with Lisa Tan and Reverie:  Lisa Tan on LinkedIn  Lisa Tan on Instagram  Reverie on LinkedIn  Reverie on Instagram  Reverie on YouTube    Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:     Alan Hart on X  Alan Hart on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on Instagram   Deloitte Digital on YouTube   Deloitte Digital on Threads    

In today’s episode, Alan sits down with BetterBriefs co-founders Matt Davies and Pieter-Paul von Weiler to discuss why they think marketing briefs are the most important document in the agency-marketer relationship, how approaching briefs as contracts may influence results, and the effect that clarity in briefs has on creativity. Matt and Pieter-Paul also share insights from the BetterBriefs Project, the first-ever global study on marketing briefs, revealing a widespread disconnect between marketers and agencies that can lead to billions in wasted budgets. In addition, they share findings from the follow-on BetterIdeas Project, showing that many brands lack criteria, tools and training to evaluate ideas properly, fueling the trust gap between agencies and marketers.  Matt and Pieter-Paul have won more than 20 marketing effectiveness awards, including two Grand Effies. With decades of experience managing thousands of briefs across global markets, they bring deep expertise and practical insights on how to improve briefs and evaluate ideas more productively. Their company, BetterBriefs, trains marketers worldwide on how to brief better and realize more effective ideas.    In this episode, you'll learn:  Why poorly written briefs can waste large amounts of budget and stall creativity  Ways to write better briefs that lead to more effective ideas  Why treating marketing briefs as contracts improves agency results  Strategies that help build trust between marketers and agencies for better collaboration    Key quotes:  “The more people we get to decide on which idea is right for our business, the more we end up being that child in kindergarten, mixing all the paint together. And we all know what kind of color we end up with.” - Pieter-Paul von Weiler, co-founder of BetterBriefs  “If our strategy [in a brief] is ill-defined, we’re not setting agencies up for success.” - Matt Davies, co-founder of BetterBriefs  “You commission an artist and let them roam free so they can do their best work. Agencies need to be guided... and they need to be informed on what they need to do and how they apply their commercial creativity.” - Pieter-Paul von Weiler, co-founder of BetterBriefs  “Just because you have an opinion [on an idea] doesn’t mean that that opinion is informed [or] justified.” Matt Davies, co-founder of BetterBriefs    Key highlights:  [00:30] Introduction   [02:30] Why are there two guests here?  [03:20] The brutally honest collaboration origin story   [08:50] Strategies to waste less money  [11:35] The brief is a contract  [14:45] Balancing clarity with room for creativity   [17:55] Briefs versus ideas  [19:00] Tips to improve relationships between markets and agencies  [23:20] Contributing factors for poor idea assessments  [28:00] An experience that defines you: Diversity of experience and getting fired  [33:15] Advice to your younger self: Be a student of the industry and stop trying to outsmart everyone  [35:15] Where marketing science fits in  [38:15] Largest opportunity and threat to marketers today: Tighter budgets and the need to write fewer briefs while being more effective     Resources mentioned:    BetterBriefs  BetterBriefs research  2021 marketing briefs study  Apple’s “1984” Super Bowl Ad  Sony Bravia's Bouncy Balls  Guinness’s “Surfer”   The Effie's  The IPA Effectiveness Awards  The Ehrenberg-Bass Institute for Marketing Science  Dr. Byron Sharp  Dr. Karen Nelson-Field  Peter Field  Les Binet  Adam Morgan  System1  Jan-Benedict Steenkamp    Follow the podcast:    Listen on Apple Podcasts    Listen on Amazon Music   Listen on Audible   Listen on iHeart Radio  Listen on Spotify      Connect with Pieter-Paul von Weiler, Matt Davies, and BetterBriefs:  Pieter-Paul von Weiler on LinkedIn  Matt Davies on LinkedIn  BetterBriefs on LinkedIn     Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:     Alan Hart on X  Alan Hart on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on Instagram   Deloitte Digital on YouTube   Deloitte Digital on Threads      

In today’s episode, Alan wraps up our Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity content series with Tati Lindenberg, chief brand officer at Dirt Is Good. Together, they explore global brand strategy for balancing consistency with local relevance, the origin and evolution of the Dirt Is Good brand, and the brand’s deliberate movement through distinct “eras.”   Tati discusses the importance of identifying which parts of the brand are “sacred” and must remain unchanged, versus those elements that can be evolved and iterated to stay culturally relevant. She notes the brand’s intentional move to highlight women athletes as main characters, showing its response to evolving consumer expectations. Drawing on her experiences as a mother and her life across multiple countries, Tati shares how these perspectives have shaped her approach to global brand strategy and her management of a diverse portfolio of brands across regions. As a highly awarded marketer, she offers insights into the role of industry recognition in building high-performing teams. She emphasizes the importance of maintaining brand distinctiveness while encouraging influencer authorship. Tati also reflects on the future of creativity in an artificial intelligence-driven landscape, her concerns about the growing "sea of sameness" in marketing, the dynamics of superfan culture, and the value of taking life a bit less seriously.    In this episode, you'll learn:  Ways to balance a global brand strategy with local execution  How Dirt Is Good has evolved while maintaining consistency and relevance  The impact advertising awards have on creativity and execution     Key quotes:  “We understand what trends are happening out there, what the company strategy is, and try to combine those two things to maintain the fresh brand.” - Tati Lindenberg, chief brand officer at Dirt Is Good  “I’m really concerned that everybody seems to be doing the same thing... we need to keep asking ourselves, are we modern enough? Are we culturally relevant? Are we compelling enough for consumers?” Tati Lindenberg, chief brand officer at Dirt Is Good    Key highlights:  [00:30] Introduction   [01:25] From São Paulo to the United Kingdom  [03:45] Tati’s path to Dirt Is Good  [07:55] The scope of the fabric cleaning business  [09:50] Balancing a global brand strategy with local execution  [12:45] The Dirt Is Good origin story   [15:20] A new way to manage brand portfolio  [17:00] Balancing consistency with fresh ideas  [20:50] In their women’s sports era  [22:00] The importance of awards  [24:40] An experience that defines you: Coca-Cola Christmas  [28:10] Advice to your younger self: Take it easy  [29:35] A topic marketers need to learn more about: Availability and affordability of tools  [32:45] Subcultures and trends to follow: Superfans  [33:45] Largest threat for marketers: “The sea of sameness”    Resources mentioned:    Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity  Dirt Is Good  Arsenal Football Club    Follow the podcast:    Listen on Apple Podcasts    Listen on Amazon Music   Listen on Audible   Listen on iHeart Radio  Listen on Spotify      Connect with Tati Lindenberg and Dirt Is Good:  Tati Lindenberg on LinkedIn  Tati Lindenberg on Instagram  Dirt Is Good on LinkedIn  Dirt Is Good on Instagram    Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:     Alan Hart on X  Alan Hart on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on Instagram   Deloitte Digital on YouTube   Deloitte Digital on Threads      

In today’s episode, we continue our Cannes Lions series as Alan and David Sandstrom, chief marketing officer at Klarna, discuss how embracing change, leveraging artificial intelligence (AI), and balancing data-driven efficiency with creativity are shaping the future of marketing and brand-building.   Klarna is a financial technology company that is well-known for its "buy now, pay later" (BNPL) options. David highlights the macroeconomic trends that he believes are contributing to the continuing growth of BNPL, while also sharing Klarna’s efforts to diversify their offerings with digital banking and mobile phone plans. Innovation and experimentation are core to Klarna’s culture, and can be seen in initiatives like their interactive customer hotline featuring an AI avatar of their chief executive officer. David also outlines how he and his team encourage employees to use AI internally by actively measuring AI usage, using it as a team on a daily basis, and challenging team members to complete tasks that would be impossible without it. However, despite Klarna embracing AI usage and adopting new technologies, David emphasizes the essential role of human creativity in creating resonant messaging. He also discusses his interest in “anti-trends”, like long-form content, as open spaces to build brands and tell stories.    In this episode, you'll learn:  How building an AI-driven culture can boost innovation and efficiency  Why combining technology with creativity can be key to brand success  How expanding and educating beyond your core offering can drive growth    Key quotes:  “We’re not doing anything new based on AI. We’re only doing the things we used to do, but way more efficiently, way faster, at a way lower cost.” - David Sandstrom, chief marketing officer at Klarna  “I think our investment in AI culture has been more important than our investment in AI infrastructure” - David Sandstrom, chief marketing officer at Klarna    Key highlights:  [00:30] Introduction  [01:05] What’s new for Klarna  [01:50] David’s career path  [03:25] The key to David’s CMO longevity  [04:00] Growth of BNPL  [05:20] Extending beyond BNPL   [06:15] Moving to digital banking  [08:00] Creating a culture to embrace AI  [11:30] The impact of AI on the creative process  [13:40] An experience that defines you: Being born to a juxtaposing pair  [14:25] Advice to your younger self: Enjoy the ride  [14:55] A topic marketers need to learn more about: How to build a brand today  [16:00] Subcultures and trends to follow: Anti-trends and long-form  [17:30] Largest threat to marketers today: Becoming too data-driven     Resources mentioned:    Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity  Klarna’s AI chief executive officer report     Follow the podcast:    Listen on Apple Podcasts    Listen on Amazon Music   Listen on Audible   Listen on iHeart Radio  Listen on Spotify      Connect with David Sandstrom and Klarna:  David Sandstrom on X  David Sandstrom on LinkedIn  Klarna on X  Klarna on LinkedIn  Klarna on Instagram    Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:     Alan Hart on X  Alan Hart on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on Instagram   Deloitte Digital on YouTube   Deloitte Digital on Threads      

Sean Downey is the president of Americas & Global Partners at Google, overseeing the company’s expansive advertising business, including Google Search and YouTube. With a background rooted in the earliest days of digital marketing startups and leadership roles at DoubleClick and Google, Sean draws on leadership lessons learned from his father, particularly the importance of creating a workplace where everyone feels they are contributing to something greater than themselves. He emphasizes authenticity, empathy, and continuous learning as core leadership values.  As part of our Cannes Lions content series, Alan and Sean connect at the International Festival of Creativity to discuss AI’s impact on marketing. Sean explains how Google integrates AI and automation into its advertising platforms to help marketers achieve better results while protecting consumer privacy. He notes that marketers today have to be more efficient than ever and highlights how AI-powered tools help them work smarter and adapt to rapidly changing consumer behaviors. Sean also stresses the importance of first-party data, privacy-safe solutions, strong change management, and a growth mindset for teams navigating technological shifts.    In this episode, you'll learn:  The ways Google balances consumer privacy with marketing performance  Why change management and a growth mindset are essential as technology evolves  Strategies Google uses to empower brands and agencies to confidently adopt and leverage AI-powered tools     Key quotes:  “Brands can get caught in the trap of thinking they know exactly who their customer is. When in reality, they're looking for people that they didn't know existed, that are incremental to their business.” - Sean Downey, president of Americas & global partners at Google  “Everyone knows when they walk to the doors in my building that they contribute to something greater than that. And that powers innovation, that powers customer orientation, and most importantly, it empowers growth personally and professionally.” - Sean Downey, president of Americas & global partners at Google      Key highlights:  [00:30] Introduction  [01:15] Work-life balance    [02:45] Sean’s path to Google  [04:20] A North Carolina connection   [05:10] The scope of Google’s advertising business   [07:15] Balancing privacy with marketing effectiveness  [09:25] Three tips for brands  [10:45] How AI is influencing Google products  [14:00] Empowering product adoption for brands and agencies   [20:20] Sean's leadership principles   [23:50] An experience that defines you: Learning from the most challenging times  [26:45] Advice to your younger self: Be honest with yourself  [27:35] A topic marketers need to learn more about: Change management  [29:10] Subcultures and trends to follow: What makes people resonate  [31:10] Largest opportunity to marketers today: The pace of ideas    Resources mentioned:    Sean Downey  Google  YouTube  Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity    Follow the podcast:    Listen on Apple Podcasts    Listen on Amazon Music   Listen on Audible   Listen on iHeart Radio  Listen on Spotify      Connect with Sean Downey and Google  Sean Downey on LinkedIn  Google on LinkedIn  Google on Instagram  Google on YouTube      Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:     Alan Hart on X  Alan Hart on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on Instagram   Deloitte Digital on YouTube   Deloitte Digital on Threads      

Andrew Messina is a Senior Vice President at Disney Advertising. He began his career on the agency side before moving into daytime sales at ABC, then advancing to a primetime senior account executive role, and ultimately rising to his current position. For the past 17 years, Andrew has led all brand advertising initiatives at Disney Advertising, including linear, programmatic, and addressable campaigns across platforms such as Disney, Disney+, Hulu, FX, and ESPN.  In today’s episode, Alan and Andrew connect at the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity to discuss the integration, sponsorship, and advertising opportunities Disney offers brands across its many properties. Andrew shares how live events – particularly women’s sports – are shaping advertising, highlights the importance of relationship-building in media sales, and explains Disney’s approach to reaching diverse audiences. He also reflects on the importance of mentorship and how AI and youth culture are influencing marketing strategies.    In this episode, you'll learn:  How rising viewership of women’s sports is creating new advertising opportunities   Why cultivating trust is essential for career growth, plus actionable development tips   Disney’s approach to building relationships with brands     Key quotes:  “Relationships really, really matter, and the only way some of these things are going to get done is through making sure you’re connected.” - Andrew Messina, senior vice president at Disney Advertising    Key highlights:  [00:30] Introduction   [01:10] A nontraditional introduction to the industry   [02:15] Andrew’s path to Disney   [04:10] The scope of his role  [05:00] How consumer brands shape the sports landscape  [07:45] Some of the most valued properties for brands  [08:45] Co-creation with consumers  [10:00] Stand-out strategies for auto and retail  [11:30] Industry transformation over the years  [13:25] An experience that defines you: The opportunity to learn sales  [15:40] Advice to your younger self: Develop relationships  [16:50] A topic marketers need to learn more about: AI  [17:35] Subcultures and trends to follow: Tastes of the younger audience  [18:50] Largest threat to marketers today: Complacency     Resources mentioned:    Disney Advertising  Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity  College GameDay Built by The Home Depot  Generation AI by Matt Britton    Follow the podcast:    Listen on Apple Podcasts    Listen on Amazon Music   Listen on Audible   Listen on iHeart Radio  Listen on Spotify      Connect with Andrew Messina and Disney Advertising:  Andrew Messina on LinkedIn   Disney Advertising on LinkedIn   Disney Advertising on X  Disney Advertising on Instagram    Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:     Alan Hart on X  Alan Hart on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on Instagram   Deloitte Digital on YouTube   Deloitte Digital on Threads      

Each year, top creative minds gather at the Cannes Lions Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity for a week of innovations, awards, and candid conversations about the future of marketing. Over the next month, you will get exclusive insight into the latest trends and stories shaping the industry through interviews with leaders from some of the world’s most influential brands, including Google, Disney, and Unilever.    In this episode, Alan kicks off the miniseries with our “crystal ball confessionals.” Unlike our usual one-on-one interview style episode, today you’ll hear snippets of Alan's conversations with industry leaders, creators, and innovators at Deloitte Digital’s exclusive ‘Collaborate with Certainty’ and ‘Engage with Certainty’ brunches. These short, candid conversations explore the future of marketing, focusing on the evolution of the creator economy, the changing landscape of fan engagement, and the role of data and technology in shaping authentic connections.  Beginning at the ‘Collaborate with Certainty’ brunch, we explore how the creator economy transforms how brands connect with customers and drive growth. First, Celia Salsi, global head of product marketing at YouTube, shares her insights on why attention, relevance, and trust are crucial for brands striving to stand out in a crowded market. Building on this theme, Kaya Yurieff, team leader for the creator economy at The Information, explores creators' complex and evolving identities. Rounding out the conversation, Kenny Gold, Deloitte Digital’s head of social and creator, shifts the focus to AI, reminding us that, despite technological advances, the true impact of creators remains grounded in authentic human connection.  Shifting to the ‘Engage with Certainty’ brunch, we tackle the question: What does the fan of the future expect from their entertainment experiences? First, we hear from Emma Simkiss, associate director of brand and marketing at the International Olympic Committee, on how authentic fan engagement is measured by meaningful interaction and loyalty, not just numbers. Michelle McGuire Christian, chief commercial officer for Converge™ by Deloitte for Sports, explains how leveraging data and AI can unlock deeper personalization and help brands truly listen to their audiences. Finally, David Geisinger, Marketing Technology, Data & Operations offering leader at Deloitte Digital, discusses a future where technology transforms fans from passive spectators into active participants, building vibrant two-way communities.    Key quotes:  “What we realized through research is that reach alone is no longer enough...They need attention, relevance, and trust. And what we've seen is that creators are best positioned to drive those three.” - Celia Salsi, Global head of product marketing at YouTube    In this episode, you'll learn:  The importance of building authentic, long-term relationships with creators  The value of data in measuring creator impact and fan engagement  Ways to leverage AI to create personalized connections with your audience    Key highlights:  [00:30] Episode introduction   [02:50] The ‘Collaborate with Certainty’ brunch  [03:00] Celia Salsi on the evolution of creator relationships   [06:15] Kaya Yurieff on authentic connections for lasting engagement  [08:15] Kenny Gold on the importance of genuine collaboration   [10:20] The ‘Engage with Certainty’ brunch  [10:30] Emma Simkiss on driving and measuring engagement   [11:55] Michelle McGuire Christian on the role of data in engagement strategies  [13:55] David Geisinger on how technology is impacting fan engagement  [18:00] One-word summaries    Resources mentioned:    Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity 2025  YouTube  The Information  Deloitte Digital  Deloitte  International Olympic Committee  Converge™ by Deloitte for Sports    Follow the podcast:    Listen on Apple Podcasts    Listen on Amazon Music   Listen on Audible   Listen on iHeart Radio  Listen on Spotify      Connect with the guests:     Celia Salsi  Kaya Yurieff  Kenny Gold  Emma Simkiss  Michelle McGuire Christian  David Geisinger    Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:     Alan Hart on X  Alan Hart on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on Instagram   Deloitte Digital on YouTube  

Are your ads landing with consumers?  According to iHeartMedia's “The New American Consumer 2.0” study, 44% of Americans feel ignored by most media and advertisers .1  In today’s episode, Alan chats with Gayle Troberman, executive advisor at iHeartMedia, about the gap between marketers and consumers, ways for marketers to bridge this gap, and the marketing principles that stay consistent despite technological advancements.   Gayle emphasizes the importance of balancing new technology with classic marketing approaches and cautions against neglecting potential customers by focusing too narrowly on the target audience.  She highlights the power of evoking memories in advertising, primarily through audio, with examples of iconic jingles. She also describes why radio and podcasting are effective tools for mass reach and emotional engagement.  Gayle Troberman is a highly respected marketing industry veteran. She spent 16 years as chief creative officer at Microsoft, then as chief marketing and ideas officer at IPG Mediabrands. She then became chief marketing officer at iHeartMedia for over a decade before moving into her current role as executive advisor. Today, Gayle works across all iHeartMedia businesses to help them connect with consumers in a deeper, more meaningful way. Her “human first, outcome second” approach to life and marketing has kept her consistently in tune with consumers throughout her career.    In this episode, you'll learn:  The inspiration behind “The New American Consumer 2.0” study and insights from the research   How marketers can better understand their audience   Approaches to using AI and targeting to add value from a consumer perspective    Key quotes:  “Every time a new technology comes along... marketers think it's like the world has to change, and it really doesn't. If you know who your brand is and you know where you want to find growth, then it's about telling good stories. It's about being relevant to those consumers.” - Gayle Troberman, executive advisor at iHeartMedia    “We sometimes let innovation get in the way of growth, or we get so enamored with the technology or the opportunity that we forget any of these platforms, any of these news tools, whether it's AI or targeting, are only as good as the stories we put out there.” - Gayle Troberman, executive advisor at iHeartMedia    “The average marketer may not be as in touch with their consumers as they think they are... I think part of the problem is that we're very often talking to ourselves. Our ads are reflecting this bubble we live in. Our ads are not reflecting the values, the beliefs, the interests, or the passions of the real American consumers.” - Gayle Troberman, executive advisor at iHeartMedia    “There's genius out there everywhere if you just talk to humans.” - Gayle Troberman, executive advisor at iHeartMedia        Key highlights:  [00:32] Introduction   [01:45] A ”muppalucky” life   [02:50] Gayle’s career path   [05:50] The secret to a long CMO tenure   [07:45] Enduring truths in marketing   [13:40] “The New American Consumer Report 2.0”  [18:25] How marketers can reconnect with everyday consumers  [22:40] Who has influence?   [24:15] Using AI in a mindful way  [28:30] An experience that defines you: Developing a human-first philosophy  [31:30] Advice to your younger self: A little more patience and empathy  [33:00] A topic marketers need to learn more about: Balancing the new with the classics  [34:15] Subcultures and trends to follow: Young people taking strong stances  [35:35] Largest opportunity and threat to marketers today: Fake performance indicators    Resources mentioned:    Gayle Troberman  iHeartMedia  "The New American Consumer 2.0" press release  “The New American Consumer 2.0” study     Follow the podcast:    Listen on Apple Podcasts    Listen on Amazon Music   Listen on Audible   Listen on iHeart Radio  Listen on Spotify      Connect with Gayle Troberman and iHeartMedia:  Gayle Troberman on LinkedIn   iHeartMedia on LinkedIn  iHeartMedia on Instagram  iHeartMedia on YouTube    Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:     Alan Hart on X  Alan Hart on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on Instagram   Deloitte Digital on YouTube   Deloitte Digital on Threads    

How do you determine your product's market value beyond its features?  In today’s episode, Alan and Sjoerd Handgraaf, Sharetribe's chief marketing officer (CMO), discuss Sharetribe’s origins, product evolution, and how Sjoerd’s team identified its ideal product positioning by evaluating the true value it provides to marketplace founders. Sjoerd shares insights into the unique dynamics of building and branding two-sided marketplaces and explains how a “give first, ask later” philosophy has helped Sharetribe develop trust and lasting relationships with its community.   Sjoerd grew up as a do-it-yourself (DIY) punk rocker in a steel town in the Netherlands. He originally planned to become an English teacher, but love brought him to Finland, where he discovered the startup world. With his DIY background, Sjoerd joined Sharetribe as the first marketing hire in 2016 and became CMO in 2020. Sharetribe is a software as a service (SaaS) solution that aims to democratize the sharing economy by empowering marketplace founders with a no-code platform builder.     Key quotes:  “We just put value out in the world, and we hope that convinces people to at least give us a try.” - Sjoerd Handgraaf, chief marketing officer at Sharetribe   “Look at what your [product’s] unique benefits are compared to those [competitive alternatives] and then try to wrap those [benefits] in value, not features. A lot of tech marketers are quite fond of listing the features, but what is the value that [the feature] unlocks? What is the thing that it gives to customers?”” - Sjoerd Handgraaf, chief marketing officer at Sharetribe    In this episode, you'll learn:  Common pitfalls to avoid when starting a marketplace business   How to conduct an objective self-assessment to clarify positioning  Sjoerd’s tips for marketers on navigating AI     Key highlights:  [00:30] Introduction   [01:38] A punk record label mogul  [03:00] The Dutch directness   [05:15] Sjoerd’s path to Sharetribe  [09:17] Who does Sharetribe serve?  [10:40] Sharetribe’s origin story   [16:30] How to get the product positioning right  [33:27] The notion of “give first, ask later”  [28:25] Why marketing is moving back to basics  [31:15] Lessons learned from Two-Sided: The marketplace podcast  [36:15] An experience that defines you: Being a DIY punk  [37:20] Advice to your younger self: Be even more entrepreneurial  [38:05] A topic marketers need to learn more about: AI is unavoidable  [42:55] Subcultures and trends to follow: No-Code and Indie Hackers  [44:35] Largest opportunity and threat to marketers today: Leveling up with AI     Resources mentioned:    Sjoerd Handgraaf  Sharetribe  Two-sided: The Marketplace Podcast   The Lean Marketplace    Follow the podcast:    Listen on Apple Podcasts    Listen on Amazon Music   Listen on Audible   Listen on iHeart Radio  Listen on Spotify      Connect with Sjoerd Handgraaf and Sharetribe:  Sharetribe on X  Sharetribe on Facebook  Sharetribe on YouTube     Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:     Alan Hart on X  Alan Hart on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on Instagram   Deloitte Digital on YouTube   Deloitte Digital on Threads    

What do executive recruiters look for when placing chief marketing officer (CMO) candidates? Why do CMOs have some of the shortest average tenures among the C-suite?   Richard Sanderson has spent nearly his entire career as an executive recruiter. He began as an intern at Russell Reynolds Associates in the United Kingdom, then eventually joined them full-time, and was relocated to the United States. He went on to get his Master of Business Administration from the University of Chicago before shifting into a new role as Senior Associate at Booz & Company. After five years in consulting, Richard rejoined Russell Reynolds Associates before moving into his current marketing, communications, and sales practice leader role at Spencer Stuart. In his role, he has led a series of high-profile Fortune 500 chief marketing officer (CMO) searches.  In today's episode, Alan and Richard break down the 2025 Chief Marketing Officer Tenure Study. They discuss what the data shows regarding career trajectories, changing titles and expectations, and the future of marketing leadership. Richard also shares what he seeks in CMO candidates when filling a role, provides listeners with actionable tips for interviews, and suggests that marketers align their language with their CEO’s priorities.    In this episode, you'll learn:  The ABCs of interviewing: Leading practices and common pitfalls  Career paths for CMOs after their tenure   What shifting marketing leadership titles means for the role    Key quotes:  “Yes, it's your resume that gets your foot in the door... but it's the chemistry and the culture that gets you the job.” - Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart  “Low tenure is not a sign of failure... Many marketing leaders are being promoted into bigger and better roles. So, in other words, short tenure [does not mean] a bunch of CMOs [are] being fired. It's quite the opposite... a bunch of CMOs being promoted and given other opportunities.” - Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart  “Ultimately, when you think about the constituents of the C-suite, who is the voice of the customer? Is it the chief financial officer? Not really. Is it the chief information officer? I don't think so. Is it the chief HR leader? No. Really... the marketing leader is the true customer or consumer advocate; they are the voice of the customer.” - Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart   Key highlights:  [02:10] A new (destructive) addition to the family   [03:35] Richard’s unusual path to executive recruiting   [06:55] How to shine in the job search and interview  [13:36] CMO tenure data  [17:00] Why CEO tenure is an outlier   [19:05] Where do the CMOs go?  [23:45] Evolution of the CMO role in financial services and healthcare  [26:05] Changing titles and responsibilities  [29:05] The marketing to CEO pipeline  [32:00] An experience that defines you: Living cross-culturally  [34:35] Advice to your younger self: Treasure your time  [36:15] A topic marketers need to learn more about: The shifts in industry and politicization of brands  [40:30] Largest opportunity to marketers today: Align the agenda and talk the language     Resources mentioned:    Richard Sanderson  Spencer Stuart  2025 CMO Tenure Study    Follow the podcast:    Listen on Apple Podcasts    Listen on Amazon Music   Listen on Audible   Listen on iHeart Radio  Listen on Spotify      Connect with Richard Sanderson and Spencer Stuart  Richard Sanderson on LinkedIn  Spencer Stuart on X  Spencer Stuart on Facebook  Spencer Stuart on YouTube    Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:     Alan Hart on X  Alan Hart on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn   Deloitte Digital on Instagram   Deloitte Digital on YouTube   Deloitte Digital on Threads