Are We Building Bridges or Better Arguments? | An Interview with Jeff McCullough

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in May 2019. Tad R. Callister served as Sunday School general president, in the Presidency of the Seventy, as a member of the Second Quorum of the Seventy, an Area Seventy, president of the Canada Toronto East mission, regional representative, stake president, bishop, and as a full-time missionary in the Eastern Atlantic States Mission. Brother Callister held an accounting degree from BYU, a Juris Doctorate degree from UCLA, and a master’s degree in tax law from NYU Law School. He is the grandson of apostle LeGrand Richards and the author of several books, including The Infinite Atonement and A Case for the Book of Mormon. He and his wife, Kathryn Louise Saporiti, are the parents of six children. Links A Case for the Book of Mormon God’s Compelling Witness: The Book of Mormon Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights 2:30 Moving on from being released as General Sunday School president 4:20 Which came first, the book or the talk? 5:15 How his law practice helped him crystallize thoughts when writing 5:50 His approach to personal study 6:10 Lesson to seek and ponder his own insight first before turning to doctrinal commentary 8:00 Studying first thing in the morning, and writing along with reading has helped him summarize his thoughts while studying the scriptures 8:50 Questioning and discussing with others is part of pondering 10:00 Reason can strengthen faith, and logic and the Spirit can go hand-in-hand 11:40 The audience for the book is first people who have testimonies that can be strengthened and who can help strengthen the testimonies of others, as well as those who may have questions, and finally critics 12:40 A partial truth, when presented as a whole truth, is an untruth 13:00 Less than 2% of the archeological finds in ancient America have been unearthed 16:00 An intellectual witness of scripture does not come from archeological findings, whether regarding the Bible or the Book of Mormon 16:40 His grandfather LeGrand Richards was a common-man leader, related to everyone, and simply loved people 19:15 Ward Sunday School presidents are not merely bell-ringers because they are in charge of the teacher councils, and they have the responsibility to help improve the teaching of every teacher in every organization, and to see that the individual and family curriculum is being implemented in every home 21:50 One purpose of the Come Follow Me curriculum is to take us from reading the scriptures to pondering the scriptures and discussing them. In the homes, it is the catalyst for discussion and learning the gospel together. 23:30 There has been a substantial increase in individual and family study, and class members from children to adults are better prepared for Sunday meetings 24:10 He and his counselors traveled internationally and were able to get a good idea of what was happening with teacher council meetings 25:10 Practicing through role play at the end of teacher council meetings was one thing they observed and recognized as an effective implementation in those meetings 25:45 Another effective implementation is the change to Christ-centered Easter Sunday and Christmas services so that members can invite others to come worship with them 27:30 Surprised at his call as the General Sunday School president 28:20 They were given a lot of latitude but there was a clear expectation to improve teaching in the home and at church 30:20 Traveling and visiting as a Sunday School general auxiliary president was to teach in general how to teach more like the Savior, to help teachers make teacher counsels more effective, and to discuss in focus groups what was working or not working in areas around the world 31:40 In the presidency of a Quorum of Seventy, they were given responsibility for a specific area, and were to train area seventies,

High Council members engaged in a live discussion focused on sharing ideas and experiences to strengthen how councils serve their wards and stakes. This podcast is a portion of the livestream discussion. Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Links The entire conversation and transcript are available in the Zion Lab community Highlights Overview This episode of the Zion Lab live stream from Leading Saints featured a discussion among several current and former Stake High Councilors, focusing on the practical challenges and opportunities of their calling. The participants shared their experiences, best practices, and innovative ideas for magnifying their assignments, effectively bridging communication between the stake and ward levels, and overcoming feelings of inadequacy. Key Insights The Need for Proactivity: The High Council calling can often feel "open-ended," allowing a High Councilor to "do as much as you want" or very little. Leaders are encouraged to be proactive—actively engaging with assigned elders quorum presidencies and ward organizations rather than just attending mandatory meetings. Equality and Insecurity in Calling: New High Councilors frequently feel overwhelmed or insecure when working alongside more seasoned leaders. Counsel was given to overcome this by recognizing that all callings are equal in the sight of the Lord and that the High Councilor's voice and spiritual insights are vital to the council's deliberations. Role as a Spiritual Messenger: High Councilors should see themselves as direct representatives of the Stake Presidency, similar to a General Authority visiting a stake. They are encouraged to be visible, bring spiritual knowledge and instruction, and share a spiritual thought when addressing wards, not merely delivering routine announcements. Mandate to Testify of Christ: Some stakes guide speaking assignments with a General Conference talk, but emphasize that the talk, whether prepared or spontaneous, must be interwoven with a powerful personal testimony of Christ to ensure the Spirit is present. Training and Dissemination of Principles: A core function of the High Council is to receive leadership principles and instruction in the Stake Council. High Councilors are then responsible for taking that training and counsel out to their assigned ward bishoprics and organization presidencies.Leadership Applications Foster Cross-Ward Learning: Stake Presidencies can gain valuable insights and enrich their High Councilors by encouraging them to attend the leadership meetings of the wards where they speak, even if it is not their assigned ward. This exposes High Councilors to diverse operational models among ward councils, creating a cross-training effect. Centralize Administrative Resources: High Councilors should utilize group communication methods, such as shared text threads or digital notes, to quickly share tactical administrative advice, official wording for callings and releases, and handbook references, streamlining the logistical aspects of the calling. Elevate the Message of Love: High Councilors should consistently make a concerted effort to express the genuine love, thoughts, and prayers of the Stake Presidency to the ward members, ensuring the members feel validated, "seen, and prayed for" by their stake leadership. 00:01:36 - Kicking Off: The "Open-Ended" Nature of the High Councilor Calling 00:04:04 - Overcoming Insecurity and Magnifying the Calling 00:06:06 - Advice on Equality and Being a Visible Representative 00:09:38 - The Role of the Spirit vs. Experience in Calling 00:11:23 - Key Role: Training and Teaching Ward Leaders 00:13:07 - Strategies for Stake Engagement: Ward Reporting and Training 00:14:44 - Unique Assignment: Attending Cross-Ward Leadership Meetings 00:16:37 - Close Relationship with Stake Presidency and Financial Duties 00:18:38 - Tactical Tip: Using a High Councilor Text Group for Logistics ...

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in February 2024. Marjorie Nelson Lowder discusses the remarkable life and enduring influence of her mother, Dantzel White Nelson. Born and raised in Salt Lake City, Utah, Marjorie grew up as the 9th of 10 children of President Russell M. Nelson and Sister Dantzel White Nelson, surrounded by music, books, art, faith and lots of love. She loves to spend time creating, being in nature and gathering with her family and friends. She is an artist, vocalist, and the author/illustrator of a book based on a favorite lullaby her mother used to sing, Pudding on the Moon. This conversation honors Dantzel's legacy as a deeply-faithful Latter-day Saint, wife, and mother, emphasizing the principles and traditions she established that created a foundation of unity and spiritual strength for her family. Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Links Pudding on the Moon Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights In this episode, Kurt interviews Marjorie, the youngest daughter of President Russell M. Nelson, to honor her late mother, Dantzel White Nelson. The conversation explores Dantzel's life, her influence on the family, and the legacy she left behind, particularly through a children's book Marjorie authored inspired by a lullaby her mother used to sing. 00:02:55 - Honoring Dantzel White Nelson Discussion on the life and legacy of President Nelson's first wife. 00:04:28 - Marjorie's Book: Putting on the Moon Introduction to Marjorie's children's book inspired by her mother. 00:05:41 - Marjorie's Early Memories Marjorie shares her early memories of her mother and family traditions. 00:08:11 - Dantzel's Background Details about Dantzel White Nelson's upbringing and education. 00:09:50 - Courtship of Dantzel and Russell Nelson The romantic story of how Dantzel and Russell Nelson met and fell in love. 00:10:36 - Family Life and Traditions Insights into the family dynamics and traditions created by Dantzel. 00:12:32 - Family Olympics and Celebrations Description of unique family events and celebrations organized by Dantzel. 00:14:19 - Creating Special Memories Marjorie's reflections on how her mother made family gatherings memorable. 00:16:26 - Navigating a Large Family Challenges and dynamics of growing up in a family with many daughters. 00:19:00 - Father's Medical Career Insights into the life of being the daughter of a surgeon and its impact on family life. 00:22:26 - Church Callings and Choir Discussion of Dantzel's involvement in church callings and her time with the Tabernacle Choir. 00:25:23 - Singing Legacy Marjorie's connection to her mother's musical legacy and family singing traditions. 00:30:11 - Becoming an Apostle Marjorie's experience learning about her father's call to be an apostle. 00:32:04 - Adjusting to New Roles How Dantzel adapted to her new role as the wife of an apostle. 00:33:31 - Mother-Daughter Relationship Reflections on Marjorie's relationship with her mother as a young adult. 00:35:05 - Dantzel's Calm Demeanor Stories highlighting Dantzel's patience and temperament as a mother. 00:39:10 - Coping with Loss Marjorie's thoughts on her mother's sudden passing and the support received. 00:41:44 - Legacy and Remembrance The importance of sharing stories and memories of Dantzel with others. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy,

Jeff McCullough is an ordained minister and has served in ministry for over 25 years, including 15 years in pastoral ministry. He holds a Master's in Biblical Studies from Moody Theological Seminary. Now serving in Utah, Jeff previously spent two decades preaching and leading in the St. Louis area. He focuses on using online platforms to create content that fosters curious, honest, and respectful interfaith conversations about faith, Jesus, and scripture. Jeff and his wife, Joy, have four children. Links @HelloSaints on YouTube @Hello.Saints on Instagram Fitting in With Other Christian Churches | A Discussion with Jeff McCullough When a Pastor Explores The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints | An Interview with Jeff McCullough Allowing Our Pain to Turn Us to Christ | An Interview with Joy McCullough A Latter-day Saint Bishop Sits Down with Four Evangelical Pastors Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights Coming soon The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Ernest Lee Davis, a native of Los Angeles, California, spent most of his life there before earning an athletic scholarship to the University of Idaho, where he graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Communications. He earned his MBA from Western Governors University and will finish his Doctorate in Philosophy of Leadership with an emphasis on Servant-Leadership from Gonzaga University this year. Ernest has worked as a finish manager/leader in the aerospace industry for over 15 years at Skills Inc., a nonprofit organization that partners with The Boeing Company. He has dedicated his career to creating meaningful opportunities for persons with disabilities and other marginalized groups, encouraging an inclusive and diverse workforce. A devoted follower of Jesus Christ, Ernest joined the Church in 2005 and is committed to living the Savior’s teachings and sharing his personal story of resilience. He is the author of the best-selling book Leading in the Lord’s Way: A Journey of Servant Leadership, and I Am Aye Child of God. At church, he has served as a member of his stake high council and currently as stake Young Men first counselor. Ernest and his wife, Ruth, have three children and live in Puyallup, Washington. Links Leading in the Lord's Way: A Journey of Servant Leadership I am Aye Child of God Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Summary Ernest explores servant leadership principles and shares insights from his personal journey, emphasizing the importance of empathy, stewardship, and building a beloved community. Key Insights Servant Leadership: Ernest emphasizes the concept of leading through service, drawing on his experiences and the teachings of the gospel. He intertwines personal stories with leadership principles to illustrate how effective leadership is rooted in empathy and understanding. Empathy: Understanding others' perspectives is crucial for effective leadership. Ernest shares examples of how empathy can help leaders connect with individuals from diverse backgrounds and support them in overcoming their challenges. Stewardship: Leaders are responsible for nurturing the talents and potential of those they serve. Ernest encourages leaders to recognize their stewardship over individuals in their communities and to cultivate their growth. Beloved Community: The idea of Zion as a beloved community is central to Ernest's message. He advocates for inclusivity and acceptance, stressing the importance of making everyone feel welcome and valued within the church. Diversity in Leadership: Ernest highlights the need for diverse representation in leadership roles to better serve marginalized communities and to foster a more inclusive environment within the church. Leadership Applications Fostering Empathy: Latter-day Saint leaders can practice empathy by actively listening to the experiences of those they serve, which can help build trust and understanding within their communities. Cultivating Talents: Leaders should focus on identifying and nurturing the unique talents of individuals in their wards, creating opportunities for them to contribute and grow. Building Inclusive Communities: By promoting a sense of belonging and acceptance, leaders can create a welcoming environment that encourages participation from all members, regardless of their background or circumstances. Highlights 00:03:17 - Inspiration for Writing the Book Ernest shares what inspired him to write "Leading in the Lord's Way." 00:04:03 - Early Life and Challenges Ernest discusses his upbringing, homelessness, and the journey to college football. 00:05:07 - Meeting the Missionaries How Ernest first encountered the missionaries and his initial experience with the Book of Mormon. 00:06:32 - Knee Injury and Finding the Covenant Path The impact of Ernest's knee injury on his life and how it led him to baptism. 00:06:43 - Leadership Aspirations

In this podcast episode, Kurt Francom and Dan Duckworth discuss the importance of addressing community tragedies within Latter-day Saint congregations. They explore how leaders can create spaces for healing and connection during difficult times, emphasizing the role of vulnerability and unity in fostering a supportive church environment. Dan Duckworth speaks, teaches, and writes on leadership, power, and systemic change. His forthcoming book, The Leader in Chains (spring 2026), challenges conventional ideas and calls for a radical rethinking of leadership—and how it is developed. Links Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Overview Perception of Community Needs: Leaders should be attuned to the emotional climate of their congregations, recognizing when community tragedies impact members. This awareness can guide appropriate responses. Risk of Vulnerability: Addressing difficult topics in church settings can feel risky, but it is essential for fostering genuine connections and healing. Leaders should embrace this risk to create a supportive environment. Purpose of Church: The church serves not only as a place for learning doctrine but also as a community for healing and support. Engaging in open discussions about current events can strengthen faith and unity. Creating Safe Spaces: Leaders can facilitate discussions that allow members to express their feelings and experiences, promoting emotional processing and community bonding. Driving the Hope Train: Leaders should focus on instilling hope and directing conversations toward Christ's teachings, using scriptural stories to provide comfort and guidance during challenging times. Leadership Applications Fostering Open Dialogue: Leaders can initiate conversations about current events or tragedies, encouraging members to share their feelings and experiences. This can be done through structured discussions or informal check-ins. Building Trust and Safety: By consistently creating a culture of vulnerability and support, leaders can ensure that members feel safe to express their emotions and seek help when needed. Integrating Healing into Meetings: Leaders can incorporate discussions of community challenges into regular meetings, ensuring that spiritual teachings are connected to real-life experiences, thus reinforcing the church's role as a healing community. Highlights 06:16 - Institutional vs. Leadership Responses 08:13 - Personal Experience of Grief 10:10 - The Purpose of Church in Times of Crisis 12:32 - The Role of Perception in Leadership 14:01 - A Personal Story of Compassion 16:17 - The Risk of Addressing Difficult Topics 17:41 - The Importance of Community Healing 19:12 - Audience Engagement and Reactions 20:00 - Navigating Political Sensitivities 22:08 - Creating a Safe Space for Discussion 23:37 - The Role of Vulnerability in Unity 25:32 - Addressing the Fear of Group Therapy 27:30 - Driving the Hope Train 30:06 - Preparing the Elders Quorum for Discussion 31:15 - The Impact of Leadership Culture 33:11 - Fulfilling the Purpose of Elders Quorum 38:14 - The Value of Risk in Leadership 40:00 - Living Life Together in Church 42:43 - The Dangers of Hypocrisy in Worship The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B.

Golden Lund holds three degrees in music from the University of Utah, Indiana University and the University of Nebraska. He is currently a music instructor at St. Ambrose University in Davenport, Iowa, where he helps direct the marching band, pep band, and teaches tuba and other brass instruments. He also performs regularly on the tuba with a semi-professional orchestra in Lincoln, Nebraska. Golden was recently released as a bishop and served in several leadership capacities previously including elders quorum president, high priest group leader, Young Men president, and on his stake high council. Golden and his wife Sandy have been married for 17 years and are the proud parents of two children—a daughter and son who are 12-year-old twins and amaze them every day. Links Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights In this episode of the Leading Saints podcast, Kurt interviews Golden, a former bishop from Bettendorf, Iowa, who shares his experiences and insights from his five-year tenure in leadership during the challenging times of the COVID-19 pandemic. The conversation focuses on mental health, vulnerability in leadership, and the importance of community support. Key Insights: Mental Health Awareness: Golden discusses his struggles with mental health, particularly during a significant crash after a year and a half of service. He emphasizes the importance of seeking help and the positive impact of counseling and medication. Vulnerability in Leadership: By sharing his personal challenges with his ward, Golden fostered a culture of openness, encouraging others to share their struggles and creating a supportive environment. The Sariah Factor: Golden introduces the concept of the Sariah Factor, highlighting the need for leaders to trust their perspective and discernment, even when others may not understand the decisions being made. Delegation and Empowerment: He shares how he empowered his ward leaders, such as the Relief Society and Elders Quorum presidents, to take on responsibilities, which helped alleviate his workload and fostered a sense of ownership among leaders. Community Support: Golden underscores the importance of community, noting that members often overlook the challenges faced by their leaders. Simple expressions of gratitude can significantly uplift those in leadership roles. Leadership Applications: Encourage Open Communication: Leaders should create an environment where members feel comfortable sharing their struggles, which can strengthen community bonds and support. Prioritize Mental Health: Leaders should recognize the importance of mental health and seek help when needed, setting an example for others to do the same. Empower Others: By delegating responsibilities and trusting ward leaders, bishops can manage their workload more effectively while fostering leadership skills in others, ultimately benefiting the entire ward. 05:32 - Calling as Bishop During COVID-19 07:18 - Navigating Early Days as Bishop 08:58 - Demographics of the Ward 10:45 - Reflection on Serving as Bishop 11:19 - Responsibilities of a Bishop 15:43 - Challenges and Overwhelm in Leadership 17:00 - Mental Health Struggles and Support 20:05 - Finding Help and Guidance 21:57 - The Importance of Vulnerability in Leadership 30:02 - Opening Up to the Ward About Struggles 33:44 - The Sariah Factor in Leadership Decisions 38:21 - Examples of Leadership Challenges 49:02 - The Messiness of Revelation in Leadership 51:19 - Normalizing Struggles in Leadership The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org.

Curtis Morley is an author, coach, speaker, and "emotionologist" who has been an entrepreneur for most of his life. He is the author of The Entrepreneur's Paradox, a Wall Street Journal bestseller. He also has a forthcoming book titled Counterfeit Emotions. His work focuses on helping people, including entrepreneurs, with personal development and growth. He has founded multiple companies and worked with many Fortune 100 businesses. He has also been recognized with awards such as Entrepreneur of the Year and has been included in the Inc. 500/5000 Hall of Fame. Morley's work and speaking engagements often center on the concept of "counterfeit emotions"—feelings that may seem authentic but can lead to destructive cycles of disconnection. He has developed a framework to help people identify and replace these emotions with authentic ones to live a more fulfilling life. Links The Entrepreneur's Paradox: How to Overcome the 16 Pitfalls Along the Startup Journey CounterfeitEmotions.com/recovery RecoveryNotSobriety.com Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights Curtis focuses on the myths surrounding pornography addiction. The discussion emphasizes the distinction between sobriety and recovery, exploring how understanding emotions can lead to more effective healing. Key Insights Sobriety vs. Recovery: Sobriety measures how long one can abstain from pornography, while recovery focuses on understanding and processing underlying emotions. True recovery involves addressing the root causes rather than merely avoiding the behavior. Myth of Willpower: Overcoming pornography addiction is not solely about willpower. Many individuals struggle with deeper emotional issues that drive their behaviors, making it essential to address these emotions rather than just the actions. Shame vs. Guilt: Guilt can be a motivating emotion that encourages individuals to make amends, while shame leads to disconnection and despair. Understanding this distinction is crucial for effective recovery. Connection and Community: Building connections and fostering community can significantly aid recovery. Isolation often exacerbates addiction, while supportive relationships can provide the necessary encouragement and accountability. The Importance of Processing Emotions: Curtis introduces the "whole" method for processing emotions, which includes witnessing emotions, harmonizing through breathing, opening the mind to triggers, leading one's life, and editing the meaning of past experiences. Leadership Applications Creating Safe Spaces: Latter-day Saint leaders can foster environments where individuals feel safe to discuss their struggles with pornography and other issues without fear of judgment, encouraging open dialogue. Focus on Emotional Health: Leaders should prioritize understanding the emotional triggers behind behaviors rather than just addressing the behaviors themselves. This approach can lead to more meaningful support and healing. Encouraging Community Support: Leaders can facilitate peer support groups or mentorship programs that promote connection among members, helping individuals feel less isolated in their struggles and more empowered in their recovery journey. 00:02:15 - Understanding Sobriety vs. Recovery 00:06:49 - The Difference Between Sobriety and Recovery 00:09:06 - Emotional Triggers and Leadership 00:10:08 - The Myth of Sobriety 00:12:12 - Transformational Recovery 00:13:27 - Sobriety is Miserable, Recovery is Peaceful 00:15:02 - Taking Your Demons to Lunch 00:18:08 - Addiction to Shame 00:19:09 - Addressing the Root Causes 00:20:21 - The Loop of Shame and Addiction 00:22:36 - Guilt vs. Shame 00:24:06 - Identifying and Surfacing Demons 00:26:44 - The Importance of Connection 00:29:34 - The Role of Community in Recovery 00:30:17 - The Whole Method Explained 00:36:21 - Overview of the Myths The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top ind...

Jeff Burningham grew up in Spokane, Washington, served a mission in Charlotte, North Carolina, and attended Brigham Young University. A serial entrepreneur, Jeff has founded multiple companies in real estate technology and venture capital. He has also served in various church callings, including as a bishop and in a stake presidency. Jeff is a father of four, a proud grandfather, and the author of The Last Book Written by a Human: Becoming Wise in the Age of AI. Links The Last Book Written by a Human: Becoming Wise in the Age of AI Stepping Up to Leadership Opportunities | An Interview with Jeff Burningham Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights Jeff discusses his book, emphasizing the importance of human wisdom in a world increasingly dominated by artificial intelligence. He argues that while AI can enhance efficiency, it cannot replace the essence of human connection and community. He encourages church leaders to focus on being rather than doing, fostering genuine relationships within their congregations. The conversation explores how disruption, reflection, transformation, and evolution shape both personal and collective journeys in the age of AI. Jeff highlights the need for leaders to embrace change with love and grace, ultimately guiding their communities toward deeper connections and understanding. 00:03:49 - Jeff's Background Jeff shares his personal background, including his entrepreneurial journey and church leadership experience. 00:06:17 - The Essence of the Book Exploration of the book's focus on human wisdom versus AI capabilities. 00:07:45 - The Risks of AI Discussion on the potential dangers of outsourcing humanity to machines. 00:09:56 - AI and Religion The impact of AI on religious practices and the importance of human connection. 00:10:14 - Disruption, Reflection, Transformation, Evolution Overview of the book's structure and the significance of each section. 00:12:02 - Reforming Religion in the Age of AI The need for religious organizations to adapt to the challenges posed by AI. 00:14:11 - Community Experience in Sunday School Reframing the Sunday School experience as a community-building opportunity rather than just knowledge transfer. 00:16:00 - The Importance of Human Connection Emphasizing the need for genuine human interaction in a technology-driven world. 00:21:07 - Bringing Being into Doing Encouragement for leaders to focus on their presence and authenticity in interactions. 00:23:16 - The Role of AI in Church Discussion on how AI can be used as a tool without replacing the human element in lessons and talks. 00:30:29 - Pattern Breakers The significance of individuals who challenge norms and encourage growth within communities. 00:34:50 - Disruption as a Constant Understanding disruption as a natural part of life and leadership. 00:40:10 - Reflection After Disruption The importance of taking time to reflect on disruptions and learn from them. 00:46:22 - Transformation Through Reflection How reflection leads to personal and collective transformation in the face of change. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman,

Matt Miles is a Political Science professor at Brigham Young University–Idaho and a co-host of This Week in Mormons and the Latter-day Lens podcasts. Links The Latter-day Lens podcast This Week in Mormons The Metrics of Faith: Rethinking Religion's Role in US Politics Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights This discussion centers on a research-backed framework for measuring religiosity, moving beyond traditional metrics to focus on the transformative effects of faith on an individual's life. Beyond the Three B's: Traditionally, religiosity has been measured by "the three B's": Behavior (what a person does), Belonging (their social connections), and Belief (their convictions). Matt Miles argues that these are insufficient measures of genuine faith. The Fourth B: Becoming: A more accurate measure is "religious becoming"—the extent to which a person has been transformed by their faith. This concept suggests that true religiosity is not just about actions but about internal change. Four Aspects of Transformation: Based on his research, Miles identified four universal traits that indicate "religious becoming": Transcendence (a connection to the divine), Humanity (love for others), Justice (a belief in fairness), and Temperance (humility). Faith and Political Tolerance: The research shows that individuals with higher scores in "religious becoming" are more politically tolerant. They are less likely to view those with opposing political views as a threat, in contrast to those whose faith is measured only by the "three B's." Challenges of Genuine Change: The episode highlights the difficulty for leaders and parents in discerning whether someone has truly been transformed by the gospel or is simply going through the motions. Leadership Applications Leaders should focus on teaching a "holistic gospel" that emphasizes the principles of "becoming," rather than just providing a checklist of behaviors. This encourages genuine internal change over external compliance. The discussion suggests that the Church is effective at teaching "transcendence" (connection to God) but could improve at teaching "humanity" (love for others) and "temperance" (humility). Leaders can apply this insight by creating more opportunities for members to serve others and develop empathy. The research on political tolerance can help leaders foster more charitable and understanding discussions within their wards and stakes, particularly on sensitive topics. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.