FALL OUT: Ten Common Beliefs that Kill Our Bravest and the Truths that Can Save Them

Most companies believe they're supporting veterans because they offer benefits and run wellness campaigns. But what if everything you're offering - with the best of intentions - doesn't actually work for the veterans in your workforce? Our guest today is Dr. Shauna Springer, who is known as "Doc" Springer to countless veterans and first responders. Through her company, THIN LINE ADVISORY, she offers highly specialized consultation and advising to organizations and companies that hire and support veterans and first responders.  Based on years of work, in a relationship of unique trust with the protector/defender community, she has seen how well-intended civilian mental health approaches can unintentionally increase risk — especially when are misaligned with the culture and ethos of this community. On this podcast, we'll engage in a conversation with Doc Springer that will challenge executive teams to rethink how they measure effectiveness, how they build trust, and how they leverage Veteran ERGs as strategic assets — not symbolic ones. This isn't about adding another program. It's about reducing invisible risk, retaining high-performing leaders, and ensuring that the people who once protected the country are properly supported inside your organizations. The conversation is direct, evidence-informed, and focused on actionable shifts. Shauna 'Doc' Springer, Ph.D. is a licensed psychologist, award-winning Military Times podcast host, and one of the world's leading experts on psychological trauma, suicide prevention, and close relationships. A Harvard graduate who has become a trusted advisor to our nation's military warfighters and first responders, she is the author of three best-selling books. Dr. Springer is frequently sourced by the media for her uniquely perceptive insights on trauma recovery, post-traumatic growth, psychological health, and interpersonal relationships. She currently provides specialized consultation and confidential advising to public safety leaders, peer teams, and organizations that serve protectors and defenders through THIN LINE ADVISORY. In addition, she serves as the Lead Psychological Advisor for MAGNUS | One and the Senior Psychological Advisor for Stella Mental Health, which has a network of more than 20 clinics across the United States, Australia and Israel. For more information: https://thinlineadvisory.com/ Order book: https://www.amazon.com/FALL-OUT-Beliefs-Bravest-OVERCOMING/dp/1736824430/ref For more information about Dr. Relly Nadler go to https://drrellynadler.com  

  Charles Arthur Leland (Cappy) received a doctorate at Oklahoma State University in High Education and Individual and Family Therapy Studies in 1977. He founded Performance Dashboard, Inc., in 2001.   Cappy began his career as a licensed independent provider of psychotherapy services. He later served as clinical director and CEO of organizations treating psychiatric, alcohol, drug, and eating disorders.   His practice evolved into industrial psychology as an organization development advisor/consultant. His work in behavioral health and psychometric assessments led to the creation of a diagnostic assessment called the Organizational Effectiveness SurveySM (OES).   Furthermore, Cappy is the developer of a model that sets forth three steps for strategic planning and performance management. The model is called AIM(Align people, Implement strategies, and Measure performance).   Both methodologies have won widespread recognition. His awards include Innovator o the Year from The Journal Record of Oklahoma, finalist in the 2008 Oklahoma Governor's Cup Competition, and Best Practices by the Association for Continuing Higher Education.   His clients range from company owners, boards of directors, and senior and middle management leaders. The organizations served are located throughout the United States and Canada. They include large government agencies, universities, Fortune 100 companies, nonprofits, leadership and organizational development firms, and small family-owned enterprises.   Patrick J. Rainey (Pat) is the Field Perspectives author for this book. He is a graduate of Brigham Young University (BS in Finance) and Purdue University (MBA). Pat is an experienced organization development advisor/consultant, Certified Executive Coach (CEC), and a Gallup Certified Strengths Coach. He has C-suite experience in marketing, finance, human resources, and leadership development. Pat has served on boards of directors and played a leadership role in raising capital and building a hospital in Paraiso, Dominican Republic.   Writing his Field Perspectives, Pat drew on his experiences working as a management consultant and executive coach, and from his background as a founder, investor, and/or owner of several businesses.   Pat joined Performance Dashboard in 2012 as president. His in-depth service to clients often includes videography. He videos and edits his clients' culture stories. He also helps his clients promote their brands by developing and executing a custom digital strategy for myriad social media and web platforms.   His clients come from a broad scope of industries, including healthcare, engineering, law, construction, general contracting, retail, automotive, and education. For more information  Dr. Cappy Leland, |[email protected] Patrick Rainey, [email protected] For more information about Dr. Relly Nadler and to download our free ebook, go to https://drrellynadler.com

Sue Langley is CEO and Founder of the Langley Group, and travels the globe engaging people from all walks of life. Her ability to energize teams for change, develop resilience and well-being in others, and to inspire leaders to be the best they can be, makes her one of the most sought-after speakers in her field. Sue has worked with thousands of business leaders, HR professionals, managers and consultants to help them learn how to harness the brain's potential, create positive workplace cultures and increase performance and productivity. Sue specializes in the practical applications of neuroscience, emotional intelligence and positive psychology, synthesizing the science and research into simple, practical tools that anyone can use. To learn more about Dr. Relly Nadler and to download our free eBook, "6 Reasons Why All Leaders Need Coaching," go to https://drrellynadler.com  

  Today we have more intense emotions and a sense of overwhelm, causing all of us stress. Leaders are dealing with so much more than they have in the past. Stress in America study tells us 47% of people are experiencing Anxiety, 44% are sad, 39% are angry, while 75% of us feel we could use more emotional support. For much of that support, they are turning to their leaders who now need more counseling and coaching skills. What are they and we to do with this abundance of emotions and feelings? Drs. Greenberg and Nadler will take a deeper look at how you manage these feelings. In our Emotional Brilliance book, we presented a model of dealing with them called NAME. Notice and Name, Accept, Manage and Express. We will look at the M for Manage, Managing your thoughts and actions which will help regulate these feelings. What is causing the most stress today from a recent American Psychological Association study is: • Inflation (e.g., gas prices, energy bills, grocery costs): 87% • Supply chain issues: 81% • Global uncertainty: 81% • Potential retaliation from Russia (e.g., cyberattacks, nuclear threats): 80% • Russian invasion of Ukraine: 80%  For more leadership tools and information on Dr. Relly Nadler and to download our free eBook, "6 Reasons Why All Leaders Need Coaching," go to https://drrellynadler.com    

  Jesus D. "Jesse" Hernandez Jr is the Founder of Depth Builder LLC, who helps leaders deepen their communication skills and build trust through their improvement initiatives. Jesse does this by shining a light on their blind spots, and teaching them how to adjust their leadership approach to ensure "buy in" amongst their employees.  Experiencing construction business problems from the perspective of an installer, a field leader, a trade contractor, a General Contractor and an owner's Rep has helped Jesse understand that we are more alike than we are different. Being a witness to people discovering their agency and leaders contributing to that is what brings him fulfillment. His path in the professional space and 7+ years of sobriety has helped Jesse meet people where they are at and get them unstuck. The key is in serving others and helping folks leverage their influence and formal authority in making the work better for the men and women who are doing the work. Jesse's 5S in Relationships Livestream Experiment revealed to him that there is a gap in connection amongst construction professionals. This led him to co-author the book Lean & Love 5S Love Letters and co-host The NoBS with Jen and Jess Podcast, where he is having imperfect conversations about the human side of work. These efforts helped Jesse appreciate the power of vulnerability. Jesse has also written Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be where readers can find glimpses of themselves in the stories he shares and discover the path to living up to the promise they are Intended to fulfill. Seeing the impact these works are having have lit a fire in Jesse to help people practice vulnerability and deepen their connection with the folks they spend the most time with. Jesse wants to serve our listeners with the idea that focusing on the person in front of us is the best way to Expand their Influence. The key to this is listening and more specifically asking interested questions. He wants to introduce the listeners two a couple of cheat codes (air time & first response) that they can put into practice immediately. For more information about Jesse go to: https://www.depthbuilder.com For more information about Dr. Relly Nadler, go to https://drrellynadler.com  

Josh Davis, PhD, is the international bestselling author of Two Awesome Hours and a certified Trainer and Master Practitioner of NLP. He earned his PhD from Columbia University, where he studied psychology and neuroscience. He is the founder and director of the Science-Based Leadership Institute.  Previously, he was on the faculty at Barnard College of Columbia University, and has held senior positions at the NeuroLeadership and other leadership development institutes.  He specializes in applying NLP and lessons from science to such topics as productivity, public speaking, communication, and behavior change. His writing has appeared in Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, and leading business and academic journals, and his contributions have been covered by various major news sources including The Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, and The Times (London). For more information: email is [email protected] and his website is https://www.joshdavisphd.com/ For more information about us and to download our free eBook, "6 Reasons Why Leaders Need Coaching," go to https://drrellynadler.com  

Recently recognized as a 2025 Top 50 Leadership and Management Expert by Inc., Bob Chapman is very intentional about building a better world. Chapman is Chairman of the Board and former CEO of Barry-Wehmiller. When he became chief executive in 1975, Barry-Wehmiller was a struggling $18 million business. Today, Barry-Wehmiller is a $3.6+ billion global platform of industrial and packaging automation, professional services and life sciences technology that Chapman transformed by applying a unique blend of strategy and culture. It is combination of 150+ acquisitions and 12,000 teammates in 28 countries.  Chapman's journey from traditional management to "Truly Human Leadership" inspired his WSJ best-seller, "Everybody Matters: The Extraordinary Power of Caring for Your People Like Family", which has sold 110,000+ copies and is available in seven languages. A revised and expanded version of the book was released in 2025.  During his 50 year career as CEO of Barry-Wehmiller, Chapman was named the Tharseō CEO of the Year by the Society for Human Resource Management SHRM), the #3 CEO in the world by Inc. and a leading Social Capital CEO by International Business Times. Chapman's leadership philosophy is also profiled in his TEDx Talk and a Harvard case study, now taught in more than 70 business schools. Chapman is also focused on bringing these principles to education through initiatives with Fordham University, other business schools and several secondary education institutions. For more information: https://www.barrywehmiller.com/story/leadership/bob-chapman For more information about us and to download a free eBook, go to https://www.drrellynadler.com  

Patricia Rachel Schwartz, MA, MCC (Master Certified Coach), NBC-HWC (National Medical Board of Examiners Health and Wellness Coach) is an executive coach, team coach, facilitator and author. She partners with senior leaders and teams to maximize desired results, which often involves a focus on stakeholder engagement, strategic visioning, team and business development, and change leadership.  Ms. Schwartz's proven approaches catalyze innovation, infuse the individual, team and organizational culture with positive energy, increase bottom line productivity, contribute to wellbeing and avoid burnout. With over forty years of experience in leadership development, business development and management, Patricia has worked with over 350 C-suite or VP level leaders from 6 continents. She has been coaching for over 20 years. Patricia works across sectors/industries including: manufacturing, tech, retail, health care, food and beverage, government, military, higher education and nonprofits. Ms. Schwartz has supported organizational change and culture shift initiatives, mergers and acquisitions, exit strategy, team development, emerging leaders, leader transition, and performance enhancement.  Her background is in executive leadership in the business and nonprofit sectors. Ms. Schwartz recently published a book for leaders, especially nonprofit leaders, on increasing employee, board, donor and other stakeholder levels of engagement. The title is Your Nonprofit's 360Win: How to Build Relationships That Pay Off, For Everyone. Following its release, it received #1 Top New Release on Amazon during October 2025. To buy a copy go to https://www.balboapress.com/en/bookstore/  or click Buy my book A sample of leaders and teams Ms. Schwartz has worked with includes: Google/YouTube, Coca Cola, Reiter Affiliated Companies, Reyes Beverage, UC Santa Barbara, UCLA, Duke University, Antioch University, Fielding Graduate University, Anthem, PepsiCo, Golden Brands, Mayo Clinic, Foundation for Hearst Castle,Verizon, Jackpocket Inc, Circle K Stores, DreamWorks Animation, US Navy/Army, University of Chicago, United Way, The Girl Scouts, and 1000s of small businesses, nonprofits and entrepreneurs. Contact: [email protected] www. PatriciaSchwartz.com

In this special episode, Dr. Cathy Greenberg interviews Dr. Relly Nadler about his journey into the science of emotional intelligence and the breakthrough tools he's developed to help leaders excel in the moments that matter most. Although executives show their emotional intelligence in split-second interactions, most of us operate on autopilot up to 95% of the time. As Dr. Relly says, "If you stay on autopilot, you stay average." Drawing from emotional intelligence, positive psychology, neuroscience, and peak performance research, Dr. Relly shares the "turbulence tools" he's used with more than 225 companies and over 2,000 executive coaches. Listeners will learn the five questions that can elevate EI in just 15 seconds, along with practical, immediately usable strategies to become more strategic, productive, and self-aware—right in the moment. If you want to break free from autopilot and lead with purpose, precision, and presence, this episode is your roadmap. For more information and to download our free eBook, "6 Reasons Why All Leaders Need Coaching," go to https://drrellynadler.com.

Steve Cadigan is a pioneer in reimagining how organizations attract, develop, and unleash talent in the modern economy. As founder of Cadigan Talent Ventures, he works deeply with leaders on complex, critical talent strategies—challenging conventional thinking and provoking breakthrough approaches for organizations navigating the future of work. As the architect of LinkedIn's talent strategy during its hypergrowth from 400 to 4,000 employees, Steve served as the company's first Chief Human Resources Officer from 2009 to 2012, guiding the company through its IPO and building the foundation that fueled its evolution into the powerhouse it is today. That experience, combined with over 25 years leading HR across diverse industries—including Cisco Systems, Electronic Arts, and ESPRIT—gives him a unique vantage point for provoking new thinking about how organizations create value through their people. Today, Steve's primary work involves providing strategic counsel at every level—from individual companies to entire industries to national governments. He partners with organizations including Google, Cisco, Intel, Salesforce, the BBC, the City of Lisbon Portugal, Manchester United Football Club, and the Royal Bank of Scotland on their most pressing talent challenges. Top-tier venture capital and consulting firms such as Andreessen Horowitz, KKR, McKinsey & Company, and Deloitte regularly retain him to work alongside their portfolio companies and clients on complex talent strategy. He serves on the boards of three companies spanning the U.S., Canada, and Africa, advises twelve dynamic companies navigating critical inflection points, and works with countries including Portugal and Colombia on national talent strategies. Throughout his career, the teams, cultures, and organizations Steve has built have been recognized as exceptional, "world-class" performers by the Wall Street Journal and Fortune Magazine. He has been named a Top 100 Global Thought Leader in HR and Talent by PeopleHum every year since 2021. In addition to his advisory work, Steve is a sought-after speaker at international conferences and teaches at major universities around the world. He has been featured regularly on Bloomberg West, CBS, and CNBC. In 2021, he received the honor of delivering commencement addresses to MBA graduates at both Stanford University and the University of San Francisco—a feat he repeated at USF, challenging emerging leaders to rethink traditional career paradigms. Stanford University developed a graduate-level course based on his cultural innovations at LinkedIn, cementing his influence on how the next generation of leaders thinks about building high-performing organizations. His book, Workquake: Embracing the Aftershocks of COVID-19 to Create a Better Model of Working, became a #1 Amazon Hot New Release upon its August 2021 publication and captures his contrarian perspective on workplace evolution. What sets Steve apart is that he has lived deep inside the world of work as both employee and employer. He has interviewed, hired, coached, and mentored thousands of employees and leaders across multiple industries and geographies—from his early years living in Singapore and Canada to his current base in California. This lived experience gives him a unique and authoritative point of view, essential to all discussions about the future of work. Steve graduated from Wesleyan University with a BA in History and received a Master's Degree in HR & Organization Development from the University of San Francisco. For more information, [email protected], and https://stevecadigan.com/ For more information and to download our free eBook, 6 Reasons Why All Leaders Need Coaching, go to https://drrellynadler.com.