122: Emily Kramer: The rise of pi-shaped marketers and picking future unicorns

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Angela Cirrone, Senior Director, Marketing Operations at Optimizely. Summary: Angela brings a fresh perspective to marketing operations, a key theme throughout the conversation is curiosity and how it helps boost your confidence and be a key lego block to a successful career. What makes her a unique leader is her experience being part of over a dozen acquisitions which came with over a hundred platform migrations and integrations. She’s developed a framework for platform migrations and a knack for evaluating software and building a stack with martech minimization in mind. We also navigated the convergence of martech and analytics in MOPs and pondered whether MOPs should report into GTM?About AngelaAngela started her career as a dental assistant before moving to academic advisory and then trying out dental salesShe moved over to marketing – playing social media and community roles for various companiesEventually she found her way into Marketing Ops at Skill-soft where she learned Marketo and got her certificationShe later freelanced at CS2She then joined a proposal automation software company that would later get acquired by Upland Software, a portfolio of 25+ cloud apps, where she would eventually get promoted to Director of Marketing OperationsShe later took on the role of Senior Director of Marketing Ops and Demand Gen at Sauce Labs, a continuous test and error solution where she transformed the Ops function for enhanced efficiency and alignment with sales and GTMToday she’s Senior Director of Marketing Operations at Optimizely, an enterprise digital experience platformBoosting Confidence by Embracing CuriosityAngela reflects on her initial days at Optimizely, surrounded by experts in marketing operations. She didn't start out knowing all the answers. Instead, she focused on moving challenges forward, a method she credits for easing her entry into a field filled with experienced professionals. Angela quickly realized the power of not knowing everything but having the skills to find out.She champions the idea of empowerment through curiosity within her team. This approach shifts the emphasis from having instant solutions to developing the ability to explore and tackle problems efficiently. Angela believes that when a marketer faces a new issue, the goal shouldn't be to solve it immediately but to start unraveling it bit by bit.Angela suggests that anyone can build confidence by being inquisitive and resourceful. This means enhancing one’s skills in using tools like AI and Google, and tapping into a network of knowledgeable peers. This skillset turns daunting challenges into a series of smaller, more manageable tasks.She openly shares her moments of doubt, reassuring us that even seasoned professionals feel uncertain at times. What matters is how they handle these moments—by seeking solutions and learning from the process.Key takeaway: Angela's journey teaches us that true confidence in marketing operations comes from cultivating curiosity and resourcefulness. Marketers can future-proof their careers by learning to decompose complex issues and steadily work through them, which not only builds individual confidence but also enriches team dynamics.The Challenges and Opportunities of Numerous Migrations and IntegrationsWhen Angela joined Upland Software, she found herself right in the middle of a tidal wave of acquisitions—14 in total during her time there. Each of these mergers, including one with her former company Kubity, thrust her into a role that tested her skills and confidence. Her task was to merge different technologies and operational cultures into Upland’s existing framework, and in some cases she had just six months to make it happen. This period marked a significant leap in her career, filled with both challenges and substantial learning.Angela's experience at Upland was filled with managing logistics but it also presented an opportunity to shape the company’s future. With no formal marketing ops team in place and the function previously outsourced to an agency, Angela saw a gap. She proposed and established a dedicated team, shifting the company's approach from external reliance to internal strength. This move was about building a foundation that was robust and could handle the complexities of future growth.Each acquisition brought different practices and technologies to the table. Angela emphasized the importance of understanding the reasons behind each company’s methods. She saw this as more than just integrating new tools into Upland’s tech stack but a chance to think critically about what improvements these new elements could bring to the company.Reflecting on her time at Upland, Angela highlights the formation of the marketing ops team as a key achievement. Her approach shows how tackling immediate challenges with a strategic mindset can lead to lasting advancements within a company.Key takeaway: Dealing with acquisitions in martech requires strategic foresight and the courage to drive change. By viewing each migration and integration project as a stepping stone for improvement, marketers can capitalize on the opportunities these changes bring. Architecting a Framework for Platform MigrationsWe asked Angela to unpack how her first few integration projects looked liked compared to her 13th and 14th acquisitions. She started by sharing details on the evolution of the process for merging data from new acquisitions into existing systems. Initially, the process was somewhat indiscriminate, with an emphasis on transferring as much data as possible, regardless of its immediate value or relevance.Over time, Angela and her team developed a more nuanced strategy, likening it to "packing a suitcase, not the whole house." This approach meant being selective about which data and tech assets to integrate, focusing on quality and relevance rather than quantity. They established clear criteria for what to include, such as activity levels and the strategic value of certain accounts or campaigns. This method allowed them to streamline the integration process and avoid cluttering their system with unnecessary data.Naturally, when two companies merge, two tech stacks also need to merge. A key part of refining their approach involved making tough decisions about existing contracts and technologies. Angela encountered scenarios where newly acquired companies had recently entered into multi-year contracts for technologies that were not part of her company’s preferred tech stack. Deciding whether to honor these contracts, transition to preferred technologies immediately, or find a middle ground was a complex challenge that required strategic thinking and careful negotiation.By the time of the later acquisitions, Angela’s strategy had matured significantly. The team had moved from a lenient approach to a more standardized method, focusing on aligning new acquisitions closely with operational standards. This shift not only improved the efficiency of the integrations but also ensured that new additions could seamlessly contribute to the company’s overall strategy.Key takeaway: By focusing on what truly adds value and aligning new assets with established standards, marketers can enhance the efficiency and effectiveness of their tech stacks and data strategies. This strategic integration ensures smoother transitions during acquisitions and can significantly boost a company’s capabilities in the competitive martech landscape.How to Pick Between Similar Martech Solutions?Angela often faced a common scenario: deciding whether ...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Andrea Lechner-Becker, mostly retired CMO and Novelist.Summary: Andrea takes us on a wild ride filled with nuggets of wisdom, a few f-bombs and tons of laughs as she unpacks her deep understanding of marketing. Together, we explore how storytelling breathes life into content and why true enthusiasm for a product can transform marketing strategies. We navigate the crucial skills of recognizing patterns and forming strategic partnerships with finance departments. Andrea also sheds light on how flawed attribution methods can lead marketers to do dumb things, why investing in branding from the outset is table stakes and why marketers have what it takes to be outstanding martech sales reps.About AndreaAndrea started her career in martech as a database marketing coordinator at the Phoenix Suns NBA basketball team She later joined a 2-year old marketing automation consultancy called LeadMD. She would quickly get promoted to Principal, VP - Marketing Service and later CMO when the company was acquired by another agency and rebranded as Shift ParadigmThrough the consultancy, Andrea’s helped huge brands like Adobe, Atlassian, Drift, TealiumShe also ran marketing at Toolio before leaving her successful career as a marketing exec and going back to her entrepreneurial routes creating uncommonly good contentShe’s the Co-Host of OWNED podcast by AudiencePlusShe wrote the Practical Guide to B2B Event SponsorshipShe’s also written an intensely emotional and powerful fiction story called Sixty Days LeftThe Impact of Fiction on Real-World IssuesAndrea’s insight into the world of writing and fiction is both refreshing and straightforward. She starts by debunking the myth of the "aspiring" writer—declaring that anyone who writes is indeed a writer. This simple yet powerful affirmation encourages daily writing as a practice, not just a hobby, and stresses that writing is accessible to everyone, regardless of their goals.The creation of her novel, Willow, stems from her fascination with America’s Death with Dignity laws, a subject she finds both philosophically intriguing and politically complex. These laws allow terminally ill patients to end their lives under medical supervision, a right given more commonly to animals than to humans. Andrea's story sheds light on this contentious issue by weaving it into the fabric of her characters’ lives, making it more approachable and understandable.Through Willow, Andrea not only educates her readers about a delicate topic but also challenges them to rethink their positions. She shares feedback from readers who have shifted from staunch opposition to a more supportive stance—or at least to a reconsideration of their views—after connecting with her characters' journeys.Key takeaway: Fiction isn't just for entertainment; it can be a formidable ally in influencing public opinion and sparking debate on critical social issues. For marketers, Andrea's approach underscores the effectiveness of storytelling as a means to connect with audiences on a deeper level. By embracing narratives that reflect real-world challenges, marketers can create campaigns that resonate more profoundly with their audience, encouraging both engagement and reflection.How to Create More Compelling Content and MessagingAndrea emphasizes the importance of going back to the basics in marketing, focusing on genuine human connections rather than overused jargon and AI-powered embellishments. She critiques the current state of B2B marketing, noting that many companies sound alike because they fail to make an effort to stand out. Drawing from Maslow's hierarchy of needs, Andrea highlights how understanding basic human motivations can enhance marketing strategies. She believes that businesses often overlook the importance of connecting on a personal level with customers, colleagues, and bosses.Her experiences at networking events reveal a lack of genuine engagement, prompting her to use specific conversational tools to foster meaningful interactions. Andrea uses a set of questions designed to deepen connections, which she adapts from psychologist Art Aaron's research. These questions help her navigate social interactions more effectively, especially as someone who identifies as introverted.Andrea argues that the lackluster approach to B2B marketing stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of marketing by those at the helm, particularly in large enterprises. She points out that many CEOs, often with backgrounds in finance rather than marketing, fail to grasp the essence of effective communication and its impact on sales and customer engagement. This gap in understanding leads to marketing strategies that do not resonate on a human level.She stresses the importance of conveying the 'benefit of the benefit' in marketing messages, using B2C strategies as a successful example. Instead of selling a product, companies should focus on selling the lifestyle or emotional benefits that the product enables. This approach is often neglected in B2B settings, where the focus might be too narrow or technical.Key takeaway: To stand out in the saturated B2B market, companies must prioritize genuine human connections and understand the underlying human needs of their audience. Marketers should strive to communicate not just the functional benefits of their products but also the emotional peace of mind they provide. By doing so, they can create more compelling, memorable marketing messages that resonate deeply with their customers, enhancing both engagement and loyalty.The Magic of Marketing is Genuine Product EnthusiasmAndrea vividly recalls her journey through the marketing world, from her educational roots to the exhilarating rush of launching campaigns and seeing the immediate impact of her work. With a twinkle in her eye, she talks about the magic of marketing—connecting people to products they'll hopefully love as much as she does. Even though she's stepped back from the front lines, her heart remains tied to the craft.After leaving a high-paced role, Andrea found joy in the simple pleasures of life, like spending time with her dog and tending to her orange trees. Yet, she still dedicates part of her time to sparking career growth in others through social media, teaching job seekers how to think of themselves as products ripe for the job market. Her methods are reminiscent of building a SaaS product—meticulous, thoughtful, and always aiming for scalability.Andrea's story is peppered with anecdotes of her early days in a dog art gallery, where she first realized the power of marketing. She could see the light in people’s eyes as they found joy in the art pieces she presented. This foundational experience shaped her belief that marketing, at its core, is about sharing passion. Whether she was working in a gallery or a tech firm, the essence of her approach didn’t change.Reflecting on her career, Andrea points out the profound impact passionate marketing has had on her colleagues' lives—transforming careers, enabling dreams, and changing life trajectories. It’s clear she sees marketing not just as a job but as a vital part of living a fulfilled life, a channel through which one can make a significant difference in both personal and professional realms.Key takeaway: Embrace the essence of marketing by sharing your genuine enthusiasm for the products or services you represent. This authentic connection not only enhances your marketing effectiveness but also enriches your professional life and touches those around you. Andrea’s story is a powerful reminder that at the heart of successful mark...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Emily Kramer, Co-Founder at MKT1.Summary: Emily explored the convergence of marketing, investment, and startup growth, delivering actionable insights for marketers, founders, and investors. When picking future unicorns, she attributed timing and luck but stressed the importance of selecting startups that value marketing and whose products meet real needs in growing markets. Emily advocated for rigor in selecting martech tools that align with business goals, enhancing efficiency without compromising content quality. She also highlighted the need for "pie-shaped" marketers in startups, professionals who combine deep expertise in at least 2 areas like growth and product marketing, but also with a broad foundation. Additionally, Emily underscored the value of leveraging marketing skills in angel investing and internal advocacy, enhancing both startup viability and internal team alignment. About EmilyEmily started her career in Media planning at Ad agencies in SanFran and also had a stint in growing a programmatic ad platformShe went back to school to complete an MBA at Harvard and joined Salesforce as a Product Marketing MBA intern before later joining a startup called Ticketfly as an early marketing team member Emily then made the mega move to Asana as Head of Marketing as the 35th employee where she built and scaled the marketing team from 1 to 25 in less than 4 yearsShe moved on to an email app startup called Astro Technologies as VP of Marketing where she led the company to Series A funding and won the esteemed ProductHunt Golden Kitty award for mobile app of the year in 2017 - this startup looked a lot like the AI productivity apps popping up today, a few years too early.Emily then joined Carta as VP of Marketing where she grew the team from 2 to 30 and sat on the exec team and reported directly to the CEO. While there she co-authored a ‘gender gap in equity’ study which was featured in over 50 publicationsEmily then kickstarted her entrepreneurial path and started dabbling in Angel investing. She took First Round’s Angel Track which helped turn her investing hobby into a new career where she’s now invested in over 50 companies as an angel investorShe joined Empower Work as a Board Member, an NPO providing text support for vulnerable workers facing challenging work situationsIn October 2020, Emily made the plunge and launched (market-1) MKT1 with her co-founder Kathleen, initially as an advisory business, then as a newsletter and community aimed at helping founders and marketers scale their teams and later as a Capital fund helping early-stage B2B startups.The Secret to Picking Future Unicorn StartupsEmily shared her journey through the startup world, sprinkled with good timing and fortunate circumstances. She entered business school just after the 2008 financial crash, a tumultuous time that surprisingly set her up for success in the entrepreneurial realm. By the time she re-entered the workforce, the economy was bouncing back, providing a fertile ground for new ventures. Her departure from startups came just before the COVID-19 pandemic, sparing her from the subsequent turmoil many companies faced.Her method for evaluating potential startups has evolved but is based on a simple principle: the importance of a solid product that the target audience would endorse, even if they wouldn't use it themselves. Emily stresses the need for a product to be compelling to those it aims to serve, a criterion often overlooked by non-marketers. A great market and a capable team are also on her checklist, but a unique selling point for Emily is the company's marketing strategy. She looks for what she now calls "marketing advantages," such as a unique story, SEO potential, or network effects that could give a company an edge.Emily's first startup job was driven by her love for music, working at Ticketfly, where she was immersed in the scene she adored. This role merged her personal interests with professional opportunities, which was fulfilling but also a learning curve. It led her to pivot towards a more B2B focus, taking her to Asana. There, she saw early traction and a team capable of winning on multiple fronts, confirming her belief in the startup’s potential.She advises marketers to think like investors when considering startup roles. It’s not just about a paycheck; it’s about believing in the product and the team. This mindset shift is crucial, especially as one’s career progresses and the stakes get higher. Understanding the company's vision and its alignment with marketing is essential—not just for the company's success, but for personal career growth as well.Key takeaway: For marketers eyeing startup opportunities, it's crucial to evaluate the company with a discerning eye: Is the product something people genuinely need and love? Is the market ripe for growth? Does the company understand and value marketing? These factors are not just important for the company's success but are critical for marketers to ensure they invest their time wisely and contribute to a venture that grows and values their skills.Advancing Gender Equity in Venture CapitalAt MKT1, Emily has taken a proactive approach to shaping the landscape of venture capital through a lens of equity and inclusion. She emphasizes the importance of diversifying investment not only as a moral imperative but as a strategic advantage. MKT1 actively sources deals from a variety of channels, prioritizing companies led by women, people of color, and underrepresented minorities. Emily believes these groups often outperform the average founders, bringing unique perspectives and solutions to the table.Their commitment to diversity is evident in the composition of their fund. For a considerable period, the gender distribution among those holding equity has been evenly split, a rare achievement in the venture capital world. This balance also extends to the fund's investors, many of whom are marketers, showcasing a diverse group of individuals backing their vision.MKT1 doesn't hold a formal mission statement on diversity; instead, they integrate these principles into the very fabric of their investment strategy. They aim to mirror the diversity of the market itself, ensuring the products they invest in are reflective of the consumers they serve. This intrinsic approach to diversity is part of what Emily describes as their 'DNA'—a natural element of their operation.Emily also collaborates with Empower Work, a support line for workers facing challenges in their jobs. This initiative primarily aids lower-income individuals, though it's accessible to anyone needing guidance. Recognizing her own privileged position to be able to address injustices legally, Emily is committed to extending support to those who lack the means to challenge their adversities.Key takeaway: Effective advocacy for diversity in the workplace extends beyond mere numbers. By embedding a commitment to equity into every facet of business operations—from investment strategies to community support—leaders can create profound, lasting change. Emily's work illustrates how maintaining a balance in investment portfolios and supporting initiatives like Empower Work not only champions diversity but also enhances the overall business landscape.Fundamental Principles For Picking Martech Tools Emily brings a unique dual perspective as both an investor and a marketer to the challenge of navigating the crowded martech landscape. When it comes to implementing new technologies, the allure of the latest tools can often lead to "shiny object syndrome," where the excitement of poten...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Anthony Lamot 🐧, CEO and Co-Founder at DESelect. Summary: From early stage founder advice and keeping up with the galaxy of martech tools to email fatigue and AI’s convergence with neuroscience, this episode journeys through deep marketing space. Anthony gives us practical advice for tracking martech trends but also keeping the timeless fundamentals in mind. We take a pit stop in email marketing land discussing true personalization, engagement tactics without overwhelming users, and if we’re really ready to give the wheel to AI (spoiler, we’re not). We also explored innovative uses of ChatGPT, the speculative future of AI and neuroscience and how to thoughtfully integrate AI into your product.About AnthonyAnthony started his career as a CRM consultant at Deloitte Belgium where he got his first taste of SFDCHe moved over to Waeg (wahg) as a business & tech consultant where he continued advising companies on CRM but also started expanding to martechHe later joined 4C as a Lead Consultant for Marketing AutomationHe took a turn in-house on a 1 year contract as Marketing Automation Lead at Toyota Europe where he rolled out SFMCDuring his consulting years, Anthony teamed up with his friend Jonathan where they met at Deloitte and they each started three startups from scratch, of which the first one was togetherIn 2019, Anthony and his co-founder went all in on their 4th startup; DESelect  Today, over 1000 organizations use the marketing optimization platform, including T-Mobile, Volvo and Cornell University and many moreTaking the Entrepreneurial PlungeAnthony was asked about what steps should be taken by those looking to start their own business, and his advice was nothing short of bold: drop everything else and dive in. He likens this to a dramatic moment from history—imagine being at the siege of Troy where the commander torches your only ride home. It's a vivid picture of commitment; there's no going back, so you might as well give this fight everything you've got. This total commitment, Anthony argues, is crucial because it keeps you sharp and wholly focused on your venture.He openly admits that feeling 100% sure of yourself all the time isn't realistic. Doubts creep in, and that's normal. But, Anthony believes in a kind of all-or-nothing approach. It's either you make it, or you don't, and while this sounds stark, it simplifies many decisions and helps keep your spirits up. According to him, being an entrepreneur is about pushing past your comfort zone and constantly dealing with the discomfort of uncertainty.Confidence does more than just keep you moving forward; it's also a beacon for others. When you believe deeply in what you're doing, it shows, and that energy is magnetic. It attracts the right kind of people to your team—those who are not just skilled but who also share your passion and drive.Key takeaway: Dive deep into your entrepreneurial journey with no backups to distract you. This level of commitment sharpens focus and fosters a necessary resilience that not only propels you forward but also draws in a team as dedicated as you are. This combined momentum is often what turns startup dreams into reality.Validating Business Ideas Before CodingAnthony shares a refreshing take on starting a new venture, underscoring the significance of validating an idea before plunging into development. He suggests selling the concept before writing a single line of code, a strategy that contrasts sharply with the more traditional path of product development. This approach involves interacting directly with potential customers to gauge interest and gather feedback, which is crucial for shaping the product in its earliest stages.Drawing from his own entrepreneurial journey with a previous venture, Anthony recalls the pivotal moment he identified a real problem to solve. This insight didn't come from brainstorming in isolation but from his observations while consulting. Noticing marketers' frustrations with certain technical tasks provided the initial spark for his business idea. By focusing on a concrete problem experienced by many, he set a solid foundation for his startup.The true test of his concept came when he leveraged his existing network within the Salesforce ecosystem. By discussing the potential solution with former clients and gauging their interest, Anthony not only reaffirmed the demand but also built initial customer relationships. This method proved powerful when a client's request for a price quote pushed his team towards actual product development—a clear sign that the market saw value in their idea.Key takeaway: Start by selling your idea before you build it. This strategy not only tests the viability of your concept beyond immediate acquaintances but also engages potential customers early in the process. By involving them in the development journey, you can ensure that your product addresses real needs, enhancing your chances of success. This proactive engagement can be a crucial strategy for marketers looking to validate and adapt their innovations effectively.How to Keep an Eye on All the Changes in Martech?Anthony kicks things off with a half joking nod to the Humans of Martech podcast, suggesting that a regular listen might be just what’s needed to keep up with the fast-paced world of marketing technology. His real answer though is: get your hands dirty. Forget spending your weekends buried in whitepapers or certifications—though they have their place, Anthony argues that nothing beats real-world experience with the tools themselves. He points out that a few minutes spent tinkering with new software can teach you more than hours spent in seminars or reading product marketing materials.He’s quick to criticize the heavy reliance on analyst reports and industry experts, which he feels can obscure more than they illuminate. Anthony's experiences have shown him that many of these resources are tangled up in marketing strategies or even pay-to-play arrangements, which don’t always give the clearest picture of a tool’s value.Anthony also believes that companies should carve out a portion of their resources for pure experimentation. He recommends about 10%—not just as a token gesture but as a genuine investment in future capabilities. Sure, some ideas won’t work out, but those that do could be game-changers, providing significant advantages down the road.Finally, Anthony underlines the importance of community involvement. Whether it’s joining user groups, attending tech meetups, or just going out for dinner with peers, the connections you make and the insights you gain can dramatically steer your career and enhance your understanding of the field.Key takeaway: Dive into the practical side of martech and engage directly with the community. This hands-on experience and network involvement are invaluable for staying updated and effectively navigating the complexities of the marketing technology galaxy. These efforts will enrich your personal growth and improve your org's innovative capacity.The Timeless Essentials of Martech ExpertiseWhen diving into what makes someone exceptional in the martech field, Anthony gets right to the point: it’s all about knowing the fundamentals of marketing deeply and personally. While it might seem like a given, Anthony shares from his own experience how crucial this understanding is. Coming from a tech and CRM-heavy background, he admits that fully grasping what marketers need didn’t come immediately. It’s not just about the tools; it’s about knowing the people using them—their ...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Maja Voje, Founder of Growth Labs and the Author of GTM Strategist. Summary: This episode with Maja is a playbook for startup marketers, growth advisors, early stage founders and anyone curious about go-to-market strategies. We untangle the most popular questions about growing early stage startups, from picking the right early channels and leveraging qualitative insights, to uncovering the limitations of willingness to pay and locking down the moving target of product market fit. We also cover how to overcome biases, leverage intuition and simplify all things go-to-market.About MajaMaja started her career bouncing from government consulting, journalist intern and Program Manager rolesShe then kickstarted her entrepreneurial journey and launched Growth Lab, an early version of her consultancy where she moonlighted as a consultantShe worked at Google on Speech Ops, where she led a team of 9 on a globally coordinated technology development projectShe later worked for various startups across London and Brussels; leading marketing, comms and growth strategy She then worked remotely for a web3 blockchain startup based in Hong Kong and took on the role of CMO where she raised over 20M in growth capital and attracted 16,000 early adopters She’s a mentor at the Swiss Entrepreneurship ProgramShe’s the author of GTM Strategist, a comprehensive guide on launching a new product and gaining PMFToday she’s doubled down on her consultancy Growth Lab where she’s worked with brands like Heineken, Bayer, Miro and ProductLed. She’s also taught Growth principles to more than 50,000 students around the world including employees from Tesla, Apple, Deloitte, Adidas…Maja, what a wild and amazing journey, thanks so much for your time today.What CMOs and Growth Advisors of the Future Should be Doing TodayMaja shares straightforward advice for those setting their sights on a Chief Marketing Officer or growth advisor role: stick with it. Jumping from one project to another without fully engaging in the entire lifecycle—from planning to execution to scaling—might seem dynamic, but it lacks the depth that comes from true commitment. She believes that the real insight into marketing leadership springs from not just launching a product but also from nurturing it and watching it grow to a stage where it can be replicated efficiently and effectively.During the interview, Maja described what she calls a "speed learning period." This intense phase of hard work, though daunting, is invaluable. Here, you're not just working; you're absorbing through active participation. It's a time filled with late nights, teamwork, and, yes, lots of pizza and energy drinks. It's about making the most out of the resources around you—mentors, colleagues, and the safety net of not yet playing with your own money.Maja also touched on the psychological barriers like imposter syndrome that can stunt growth. Her advice? Push past those doubts. Success breeds confidence, and with each win, the blueprint for repeating those successes becomes clearer and more intuitive. She advocates for a mix-and-match approach to professional roles: try a bit of mentoring here, some part-time consulting there, and see what suits you best.She’s passionate about remaining relevant and adaptive in the fast-paced marketing world. For Maja, it’s not just about keeping up; it’s about continuously applying what works on a larger scale and helping more people with those proven strategies. This excitement for her work shines through when she talks about scaling what works and bringing more value to more clients.Key takeaway: To really prepare for a CMO role, immerse yourself completely in projects and embrace the learning that comes with each phase. Avoid hopping too quickly from one opportunity to the next without reaping the full benefits of your experiences. Stay versatile, stay engaged, and remember, adapting proven strategies on a wider scale can amplify your impact and keep your skills sharp in a competitive field.Recognizing the Value of Simplicity in GTM StrategiesWhen Maja talks about marketing strategies, she hits home the need for simplicity. It's easy for marketers, especially the seasoned ones, to fall into the trap of making things more complicated than they need to be. Maja explains that the smarter you get, the harder it can be to keep things straightforward. You start seeing more angles, more risks, and more possibilities, and suddenly, you're stuck—nothing moves because you're overthinking every detail. This is what Maja refers to as the "curse of intelligence." You know so much that it actually starts to hold you back.In her view, one of the biggest hitches in deploying marketing strategies is the sheer overwhelm of options. This often leads to what she describes as "analysis paralysis." You end up doing nothing because you're too caught up in your head, dissecting various possibilities and scenarios. And in a world where speed to market is crucial, being stuck in this loop can be disastrous.But there's more to it. According to Maja, bigger companies often struggle with decision-making because it feels safer to spread the responsibility around. This might mean bringing in various consultants and team members to weigh in, which can drag out the process even further. It’s like trying to cook a meal with too many chefs in the kitchen—everyone has an opinion, but dinner never gets made.Maja stresses the importance of creating a culture where it's okay to make mistakes. The best teams, she says, treat failures as stepping stones to better solutions. They use a scientific approach, testing ideas, learning from missteps, and gradually getting wiser. It's about creating a space where people feel secure enough to try new things without fear of retribution if they don’t hit the mark right away.Key takeaway: Keep your marketing strategies simple. Don’t let knowledge become a barrier to action. Encourage a team environment where trying and failing is just part of the process, because that’s how you find what really works. This not only keeps your team moving forward but also ensures you remain agile and responsive in a competitive marketplace.GTM for Products that are Good but not GreatMaja delves into the raw experiences of working in startup environments where resources are tight but ambitions run high. She shares that the perfect product is a myth that hinders more than it helps. It's a common trap for many startups—they spend too much time polishing a product instead of getting it into the market to start learning from real customer feedback. Maja emphasizes the importance of launching early and initiating those critical feedback loops that inform successful go-to-market strategies.In her journey, Maja has seen startups falter not just because their products were imperfect, but often because they weren't communicating effectively with the right market segments. She recounts how targeting can make or break the initial traction of a product. Sometimes, a pivot in the target audience, whether geographic or demographic, can dramatically shift the results. Maja advocates for starting small and embracing activities that might not scale initially but can provide invaluable insights and early adopters.For example, Maja describes a CRM startup's approach to finding its niche. They simply posted an invite to their beta version in a large Facebook group and quickly gathered their first 100 users. This initial user base helped them understand that their product wasn't suitable for e-commerce but was a hit with solo entre...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Adam Greco, Field CTO / Product Evangelist at Amplitude. Summary: Adam is a leading voice in digital analytics and he unpacks event-based analytics and how it’s transformed how marketers interact with data. Data tools are complicating the martech landscape with overlapping functionality and confusing terminology so Adam breaks down the nuanced difference between product analytics, customer data infrastructure and ETL. Adam also walks us through how his team combines marketing, product, and experience analytics getting a fuller view that informs smarter, more effective strategies. We also cover the shift to interactive dashboards as well as warehouse native martech and what it means for marketers. Marketers need to work closely with data teams to ensure these new tools are practical without being overwhelmingly complex, allowing them to lead confidently in their industries.About AdamAdam is one of the leading voices in digital analyticsHe’s managed marketing and customer success teams at enterprise companies and consulting firmsHe’s been Senior Director of Marketing and Analytics at Salesforce He spent nearly a decade as a Senior Partner at one of the best-known analytics consultancies in Analytics Demystified where he’s advised hundreds of organizations on analytics best practicesHe’s been a Board Advisor at various well-known startups, analytics associations, capital funds and universities He’s authored over 300 blogs and one book related to analyticsHe’s a frequent speaker at big-name analytics conferencesToday he’s Field CTO at Amplitude, where he focuses on providing content, education, and strategic advice on how to build better productsUnderstanding Event Based AnalyticsAdam unpacks the shift towards event-based analytics, a concept that may seem confusing to those accustomed to traditional digital analytics. He explains that back when the internet was simpler and mostly about websites, tracking was straightforward: look at pageviews and sessions and hope for conversions. But as technology evolved—think smartphones and apps—the old methods became less effective.Mobile apps changed the game. Interactions on these platforms are brief and frequent, shifting the focus from long sessions to brief, meaningful interactions, each marked as an event. Adam points out that his company, Amplitude, was at the forefront of adopting this approach, realizing that tracking every tap and swipe gave a clearer picture of user engagement than the traditional methods.As both websites and apps became integral to user experience, the analytics field faced a choice: stick with the old or adapt to the new. The answer was overwhelmingly in favor of event-based analytics. Major players like Google and Adobe redefined sessions as just another event, creating a unified model that could track interactions across platforms, be they digital or physical, like visiting a store or calling customer support.This evolution means marketers can now see a fuller, more dynamic view of how users engage across different platforms. Understanding that a session is a collection of events, rather than a fixed time slot, offers a richer, more nuanced understanding of user behavior.Key takeaway: Embracing event-based analytics allows marketers to capture the full spectrum of customer interactions, offering a granular view that is vital for crafting targeted, effective marketing strategies. This approach not only keeps pace with the evolving tech landscape but also provides the insights needed to enhance customer engagement and satisfaction.Product Analytics vs Customer Data Infrastructure vs ETLAdam explains the evolving landscape of martech tools, focusing on how they intersect and differ, simplifying a topic that can be quite bewildering for even experienced marketers. Initially, the task for marketers was to employ simple tools provided by companies like Google or Adobe, which handled data collection via embedded codes on websites or apps. These tools offered convenience but at the cost of flexibility and depth in data manipulation.With the advent of more specialized tools, the dynamics changed. Customer Data Infrastructure (CDI) tools like Jitsu, MetaRouter, and Rudderstack focus mainly on collecting first-party data from apps and websites, pushing this information directly into data warehouses. They don’t delve into analytics but excel at gathering clean, structured data.On the other hand, Extract, Transform, Load (ETL) tools such as Airbyte and Fivetran specialize in integrating data from various third-party tools into a central warehouse. They transform the data during this process to ensure it fits well within the existing structures and schemas of a company’s database, enhancing the data’s utility for comprehensive analysis.Customer Data Platforms (CDP) like mParticle and Segment represent a more holistic approach, incorporating features of both CDI and ETL. They not only aggregate and organize data but also enrich it, providing a robust platform that supports marketing automation and personalized customer experiences based on the unified data they help curate.Adam highlights that while CDI, CDP, and ETL tools are vital for data orchestration, they often lack robust analytical capabilities. This is where Product Analytics tools like Amplitude step in. Amplitude starts with some features of CDI but integrates extensive analytics and visualization capabilities, allowing marketers to not only collect and see their data but also to derive meaningful insights and build complex reports directly.Adam also emphasizes the importance of flexibility in Amplitude’s approach to integrating with the broader martech ecosystem. Despite the overlap with features typically found in CDIs, Amplitude continuously expands its capabilities to better meet the needs of its users. Central to its philosophy is maintaining an open system. Unlike some platforms that might restrict interoperability with competitors' tools, Amplitude encourages its users to integrate as they see fit, whether that means using Amplitude in conjunction with other products or relying on it more heavily for certain functions. This openness not only provides users with the flexibility to tailor their data strategies precisely but also offers potential cost savings by allowing them to choose the most effective combination of tools for their specific needs. By listening to customer feedback and adapting its offerings, Amplitude aims to provide the most value, ensuring that clients have the best tools at their disposal, no matter the complexity of their data needs.Key takeaway: Marketers looking to refine their tech stacks should consider how each tool fits into their broader strategy. Integrating platforms like Amplitude that handle multiple functions—from data collection to visualization—can simplify operations and cut costs. This approach not only makes managing marketing technology easier but also ensures that teams can quickly adapt to changes and opportunities in the market, keeping them one step ahead.Converging marketing, experience and product analyticsWhen Adam penned his thoughts on the convergence of digital marketing, experience, and product analytics back in 2021, the concept faced skepticism. Fast forward to 2024, and the landscape validates his insights, showing a clear trend toward unified analytics platforms. The separation of marketing, product, and design analytics is becoming obsolete as companies recognize the inefficiencies of siloed data approaches.In his early career at companies like Salesforce,...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Mandy Thompson, CEO and Co-Founder of Digital Reach. Summary: Mandy shares powerful mindsets and practical frameworks for marketers aiming to future-proof their careers in the complex galaxy of martech mixed up with AI, data privacy, and genuine customer engagement. We cover the art of documentation to avoid feeling like you’re in an Indiana Jones adventure sifting through digital cobwebs from ghosts of marketers past when you dive into a company’s martech setup. We also examined the use of intent data, urging a balanced approach that respects privacy. She highlighted her practical use of virtual whiteboarding to pre-plan automations and using ChatGPT for marketing automation use cases. Most importantly, Mandy shared how blending personal authenticity with professional savvy creates genuine connections, far more valuable than superficial likes on social media. About MandyMandy started her career plunging into entrepreneurship launching an Advocacy and Consulting firm where she ran Marketing and sales for 3 successful years, growing the team to 25 people and crossing 1M in rev in the first yearShe later sold everything she owned and went out on her own traveling the world as a digital nomad – freelancing as a copywriter and a web developer. She developed and produced an online course that generated 7 figure returnsShe co-founded Digital Reach, a digital agency where she spent 8 years focused on sales and account management, before becoming CEO where she’s spent the last 3.5 years growing the agency 300% YOYShe’s a member of Pavilion and RevGenius, she’s also a Treasurer Board of Directors at the New Mexico Psychedelic Science SocietyFinding Your True Self in the WorkspaceMandy shares a piece of her life with us, a story that's as much about the tattoos on her skin as it is about the unseen marks her experiences have left. It's a peek into the life of someone who's part of the LGBTQIA+ community, a proud woman in a world that still wrestles with equality, and a professional who's dared to blur the lines between her personal and professional selves. Her story isn't just hers alone; it echoes the journeys of many who feel like they're juggling multiple identities, trying to find a spot where they fit in without having to compromise on who they truly are.She talks about starting with what's comfortable and pushing the boundaries from there. It's like dipping your toes into the ocean to gauge the temperature before plunging in. Mandy found that the more she shared, the more she discovered people who were like her or, at the very least, people who were open to embracing her totality without judgment. Her tale is a reminder that often, our fears of rejection are far greater than the reality of it.The pandemic, for all its chaos, played a surprising role in Mandy's life. It pushed the professional world into a more authentic space, where business suits met bedroom backgrounds in Zoom calls. For Mandy, it was a time when the digital nomad lifestyle she had always embraced suddenly became the norm. The shift wasn't just about work cultures becoming more accepting of remote work; it was about the world getting a glimpse into the personal lives of its workforce, making everyone a bit more human.Mandy's discussion about the intersecting circles of our personal and professional lives—how we must find that sweet spot where we can be true to ourselves while still rocking our roles at work—is insightful. She doesn't shy away from dressing up for an important client meeting, not as a betrayal to her identity, but as a nod to the professional context. It's about knowing when and how to showcase different facets of ourselves, a dance between being authentically us and professionally adaptable.Key takeaway: Embracing your full self at work is less about a grand revelation and more about small, confident steps towards being true to who you are. For marketers, this means understanding that your personal story and how you choose to share it can become your strength, allowing you to connect on a more genuine level with your audience, colleagues, and industry at large. It's about finding your voice in a way that resonates with both who you are and who you aspire to be professionally.Genuine Connections Over Likes on SocialMandy's got a point that'll make you rethink your whole LinkedIn strategy. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking you need to blend in to get ahead. You know the feeling, scrolling through your feed and it's like everyone's marching to the beat of the same drum. But Mandy's here to tell us that's not where it's at. The real magic happens when you break from the pack and share what makes you, well, you. It's not about racking up likes or followers. It's about striking a chord with the people who get you.She's pretty clear on one thing: chasing popularity isn't the goal. Imagine reaching your career milestones, not because you played it safe, but because you were real with your network. Think about it. Do you really need thousands of likes to say you've made it? Nah. If your post lights up the day for just a handful of people, those are your people. They're the ones who dig what you're saying and that's worth its weight in gold.Let's be real, though. It can sting a bit when you see others with their crazy-high follower counts and endless stream of comments. Mandy feels that too. Putting yourself out there and then hearing crickets? Tough. But she's adamant that finding your voice and your tribe beats playing it safe any day. It's not about shouting into the void but whispering to those who are actually listening.Mandy reminds us that the digital world is vast, but the corners where we find our kindred spirits are precious. It's less about impressing the crowd and more about connecting with the few who truly appreciate your uniqueness.Key takeaway: Don't lose yourself in the quest for likes and approval on LinkedIn. Authenticity is your superpower. For marketers, remember, it's the genuine connections that count, not the size of your audience. Focus on those who resonate with your true self, and you'll find not only your tribe but also your path to true professional fulfillment.Treat Your Marketing Team like Your Agency Within the CompanyMandy has this straightforward way of talking about managing marketing teams that feels like a breath of fresh air. She takes us behind the scenes of running an agency, where it’s all about juggling different accounts and making sure everyone’s rowing in the same direction. It’s this dance of making sure what you promise on one hand, you can actually deliver on the other. And it all boils down to something she calls mutual accountability - a two-way street where the team and leaders keep each other in check.The trick is to always have a clear picture of what’s doable. Mandy points out how essential it is to match up the team's workload with what clients are asking for. It's pretty much like saying, "Let's not bite off more than we can chew." If someone’s schedule is already packed, promising a client that their request can be done next week isn't just unrealistic; it's unfair to the team. It's about finding that sweet spot where the team's capacity meets client expectations without anyone having to burn the midnight oil unnecessarily.Mandy's a big fan of using smart tools to keep everything on track. She talks about something called teamwork, but it’s clear the real teamwork happens when these tools give everyone a clear view of the workload, deadlines, and what's at stake financially. It's not just about checking tasks off a list; it's about making informed decis...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Dr. Julz James, Senior Marketing Ops Manager at 6sense and Adjunct Professor at St. Edwards University. Summary: Jul is a marketing ops leader and a martech Professor who's rewriting the rulebook on how to navigate the martech galaxy. She walks us through automation inception, like a dream within a dream, and how she’s leveraged an iPaaS tool to automate her automations. She also unravels intent data and how her team has moved beyond lead scoring to adopt account scoring. Sprinkle in her freelance learnings, and you've got a recipe for someone who's not just working in marketing ops but thriving, bringing fresh insights and strategies to the classroom. This episode is a nice reminder that with a bit of curiosity, a dash of adaptability, and a love for teaching, the galaxy of martech tools isn't just approachable—it's yours to automate.About JulzJulz got her start wearing multiple marketing hats including website management and SEO for variety of SMBs and later a big recruiting firm Julz then decided to go back to school to pursue a PhD at the University of South Wales, undertaking work-based doctoral research while working with an growing ecomm companyShe later worked as a Marketing Automation Manager at a few different tech companies including Mitel and a talent software startupJulz then decided to move from the UK to Austin Texas to take an Assistant Professor of Marketing gig at St. Edwards University and is currently still a Part-time Adjunct ProfessorShe also started freelancing in marketing operations and would later join Blue Prism as their srn Marketing Ops ManagerFinally she had a short stint at Adobe before settling in at 6sense where she’s currently leading Marketing OperationsA New Approach to Educating the Modern MarketerImagine walking into a marketing class and instead of cracking open a dusty textbook that smells like the '80s, you're handed a sandbox loaded with today's leading marketing software. This isn't a scene from a futuristic movie; it's what Julz is bringing to the table in her marketing courses. Gone are the days of learning marketing theories that feel like a DVD. Julz has swapped them for lessons on the tools that marketers actually use in their jobs today.Julz loves teaching not for the sake of it but for the lightbulb moments she sees in her students when they connect the dots between class material and their day jobs in marketing. She draws from her own reservoir of experiences, sharing how she navigates the marketing world with tools like Marketo and Salesforce, making her classes a treasure trove of real-life wisdom.Her approach is refreshingly practical. Remember learning about the four P's and Porter’s Five Forces? Julz believes those concepts are as relevant to today's marketing as a pager is to personal communication. Instead, she's all about diving into the digital tools that shape modern marketing strategies, shifting the focus from memorizing models to mastering martech.Creating course content is no walk in the park, especially when the galaxy of martech tools changes faster than you can hit refresh. But Julz is on top of it, crafting her materials from a blend of up-to-the-minute blogs, community discussions, and the latest ebooks. It’s about making sure her students aren't just keeping pace but are ahead of the curve, ready to apply what they've learned in real-time scenarios.Key takeaway: If you're in marketing and looking to make your mark, take a page out of Julz's playbook. Forget the dry theories that gather dust on a shelf. It's all about rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty with the tech that's shaping our world right now. Being quick on your feet, always hungry to learn something new, and getting cozy with the latest martech? That's the secret sauce for not just making it but also having fun.Unlocking the Secrets of Martech Without Coding SkillsEver think you need to be a coding guru to rock at marketing tech? Julz has some news for you: that's not the case. Picture this: you're more like a tech-savvy wizard, weaving different digital tools together, making them do exactly what marketing needs them to do. And guess what? You don't need to write lines of code to pull it off.Julz puts it simply – her gig in marketing operations is kind of like being an IT whiz but all jazzed up for marketing. You get systems to play nice with each other, not by coding from scratch but by knowing just enough to make smart tweaks here and there. It's like knowing how to change a tire without being a mechanic. Sure, dipping your toes into HTML or JavaScript is helpful, especially when you need to adjust something small on a website or in an email. But the real game? It’s all about seeing the big picture, understanding how different platforms and tools fit into the marketing puzzle.Drawing from her own adventures, Julz shares how her journey through engineering and tinkering with gadgets wasn’t about the math or the mechanics but about solving puzzles and being curious. Whether it’s figuring out why a campaign isn’t performing or integrating a new tool into the tech stack, it’s this curiosity and problem-solving drive that counts.Here’s the kicker: the world of marketing tech is becoming more user-friendly by the day. Tools that used to require a developer to set up can now be managed with a few clicks and drags. This shift doesn’t mean technical skills aren’t valuable; it just means the focus is shifting towards strategy and understanding how to connect the dots between different technologies to create a seamless marketing engine.Key takeaway: Jumping into marketing tech doesn’t mean you need to bury yourself in code. It’s all about understanding the flow between different tools and technologies and using that knowledge to craft marketing strategies that hit the mark. So, if you're curious, ready to tackle problems, and can think on your feet, you’re already well on your way to making a big splash in martech, no coding required.Why Qualified Accounts Beat MQLs in Modern MarketingWhen Julz landed at 6sense, she walked into a whole new playbook for marketing ops. Gone were the days of obsessing over who's scoring what in leads. Here, it was all about tuning into accounts showing us buying signals, loud and clear. It took her a hot minute — okay, six months — to really get why they weren't sweating over lead scores. Ditching lead scoring felt like saying goodbye to an old friend, but it opened her eyes to a smarter way to connect with potential buyers.Think of it this way: It's not about waiting for someone to wave a flag saying, "Hey, I downloaded your ebook!" It's about catching those signals that someone's already scoping you out, ready to chat about what you do. They call these signals from their AI buddy at 6sense, the 6QAs. It's like having a secret decoder ring that shows them who's already thinking about buying without them having to say a word.But here’s the wild part: Once you spot these ready-to-buy accounts, how do you know who to talk to? That's where things get really interesting. They dove into their win stories and figured out who's usually in on the buying decision. Not by names, but by their roles. Are they in ops? Sales? Marketing? This wasn’t just a wild guess; it’s about knowing the committee that’s going to nod yes or no to what you offer.Their sales conversations shifted dramatically. Instead of chasing down every single lead, they started having real talks with the right folks in these companies, all thanks to a mix of their own tools and a hefty dose of strategy. They’re not just throwing darts...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Kevin Hu (Hoo), Co-founder and CEO at Metaplane. Summary: Dr. Kevin Hu gives us a masterclass on everything data. Data analysis, data storytelling, data quality, data observability and data anomaly detection. We unpack the power of inquisitive data analysis and a hypothesis-driven approach, emphasizing the importance of balancing data perfection with actually doing the work of activating that data. He highlights data observability and anomaly detection as a key to preempting errors, ensuring data integrity for a seamless user experience. Amid the rise of AI in martech, he champions marketing ops' role in safeguarding data quality, making clear that success hinges on our ability to manage data with precision, creativity, and proactive vigilance. About KevinKevin did his undergrad in Physics at MITHe later collaborated with his biologist sister, assisting in analyzing five years of fish behavior data. This experience inspired him to further his research and earn a master's degree in Data Visualization and Machine LearningHe also completed a PhD in Philosophy at MIT where he led research on automated data visualization and semantic type detection His research was published at several conferences like CHI (pronounced Kai) (human-computer interaction), SIGMOD (database) and KDD (data mining) and featured in the Economist, NYT and WiredIn 2019, Kevin teamed up with former Hubspot and Appcues engineers to launch Metaplane, initially set out to be a product focused on customer success, designed to analyze company data for churn preventionBut after going through Y Combinator, the company pivoted slightly to build data analytics-focused toolsToday Metaplane is a data observability platform powered by ML-based anomaly detection that helps teams prevent and detect data issues — before the CEO pings them about weird revenue numbers.How to Ask the Right Questions in Data AnalysisWhen Kevin shared the profound impact César Hidalgo, his mentor at MIT, had on his journey into the data world, it wasn't just about learning to analyze data; it was about asking the right questions. César put together one of our favorite TED talks ever – Why we should automate politicians with AI agents – this was back in 2018, long before ChatGPT was popular. Hidalgo, recognized not only for AI and ML applications but also developing innovative methods to visualize complex data and making it understandable to a broader audience, was the most important teacher in Kevin’s life. He helped Kevin understand that the bottleneck in data analysis wasn't necessarily a lack of coding skills but a gap in understanding what to ask of the data. This revelation came at a pivotal moment as Kevin navigated his path through grad school, influenced by his sister's work in animal behavior and his own struggles with coding tools like R and MATLAB.Under Hidalgo's guidance, Kevin was introduced to a broader perspective on data analysis. This wasn't just about running numbers through a program; it was about diffusing those numbers with context and meaning. Hidalgo's approach to mentorship, characterized by personalized attention and encouragement to delve into complex ideas, like those presented in Steven Pinker's "The Blank Slate," opened up a new world of inquiry for Kevin. It was a world where the questions one asked were as critical as the data one analyzed.This mentorship experience highlights the importance of curiosity and critical thinking in the field of data science. Kevin's reflection on his journey reveals a key insight: mastering coding languages is only one piece of the puzzle. The ability to question, to seek out the stories data tells, and to understand the broader implications of those stories is equally, if not more, important.Kevin's gratitude towards Hidalgo for his investment in students' growth serves as a reminder of the value of mentorship. It’s a testament to the idea that the best mentors don't just teach you how to execute tasks; they inspire you to see beyond the immediate horizon. They challenge you to think deeply about your work and its impact on the world.Key takeaway: For marketers delving into data-informed strategies, Kevin's story is a powerful reminder that beyond the technical skills, the ability to ask compelling, insightful questions of your data can dramatically amplify its value. Focus on nurturing a deep, inquisitive approach to understanding consumer behavior and market trends.Bridging Academic Rigor with Startup AgilityDuring his career in academia working alongside Olympian-caliber scientists and researchers, Kevin garnered insights that have since influenced his approach to running a startup. The parallels between academia and startups are striking, with both realms embodying a journey of perseverance and unpredictability. This analogy provides a foundational mindset for entrepreneurs who must navigate the uncertain waters of business development with resilience and adaptability.At the heart of Kevin's philosophy is the adoption of a hypothesis-driven approach. This methodology, borrowed from academic research, emphasizes the importance of formulating hypotheses for various aspects of business operations, particularly in marketing strategies. Identifying the ideal customer profile (ICP), crafting compelling messaging, and selecting the optimal channels are seen not as static decisions but as theories to be rigorously tested and iterated upon. This empirical approach allows for a methodical exploration of what resonates best with the target audience, acknowledging that today's successful strategy may need reevaluation tomorrow.Another vital lesson from academia that Kevin emphasizes is the respect for past endeavors. In a startup ecosystem often obsessed with innovation, there's a tendency to overlook the lessons learned from previous attempts in similar ventures. By acknowledging and building upon the efforts of predecessors, Kevin advocates for a more informed and grounded approach to innovation. This perspective encourages entrepreneurs to consider the historical context of their ideas and strategies, potentially saving time and resources by learning from past mistakes rather than repeating them.Key takeaway: Embracing a hypothesis-driven mindset should be familiar grounds for marketers. Challenge your team to identify and test hypotheses around underexplored or seemingly less significant customer segments. This could involve hypothesizing the effectiveness of personalized content for a niche within your broader audience that has been overlooked, measuring engagement against broader campaigns.Balancing Data Accuracy with Rapid GrowthFor startups grappling with survival, the luxury of perfect data is often out of reach. Kevin points out that data quality should be tailored to the specific needs of the business. For instance, data utilized for quarterly board meetings does not necessitate the same level of freshness as data driving daily customer interactions. This pragmatic approach underscores the importance of defining data quality standards based on the frequency and criticality of business decisions.At the heart of Kevin's argument is the concept that as businesses scale, the stakes of data accuracy and timeliness escalate. He highlights scenarios where real-time data becomes crucial, such as B2B SaaS companies engaging with potential leads or e-commerce platforms optimizing their customer journey. In these cases, even slight inaccuracies or delays can result in missed revenue opportunities or diminished customer trust.This discourse on data quality transcends the binary choice between perfect data and rapid action. Instead, Kevin advoc...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Amrita Mathur, VP of Marketing at ClickUp.Summary: Building a brand from zero is all about diving deep into what makes your audience tick and tailoring your messages to hit just right. Amrita digs into this, stressing the gold in blending hard data with your gut in order to spot what truly connects. It’s not about the immediate wins; it’s hunting for those less obvious cues that hint you’re on to something. When it comes to team-building, she’s clear: bring on board folks who are curious, the ones who ask all of the questions and are unafraid of constructive criticism. For Amrita, the secret sauce to thriving in marketing, beyond all the strategy and insights, boils down to enjoying the ride and the people you’re with, transforming work from a mere grind to an adventure worth every second.About AmritaAmrita kicked off her career at a startup in Toronto that was later acquired by OpenText, there she wore many different marketing hats, and later progressed to Redknee as Product Marketing ManagerShe briefly shifted to customer success at Jonas Software, concentrating on customer growth and retention and later returned to product marketing at Toronto Region Board of TradeShe then became Director of Marketing at PriceMetrix/McKinsey, where she led marketing planning and team hiringShe also led Demand Marketing at Vision Critical where she focused on go-to-market strategies, demand generation, and martechAmrita then moved over to Top Hat as Vice President overseeing Demand Generation, Marketing Operations & GrowthShen then joined a startup called Konsus founded by two Norwegian entrepreneurs who secured seed funding from Sam Altman and the Slack Fund. There she led the rebrand of the company to Superside and built a team that helped the startup grow from 0 to $4M in year 1 and reach $60M by year 4Finally, Amrita has recently joined San Diego-based ClickUp, the popular productivity platform valued at over $4B, known best for their SuperBowl ad or their music albumThe Myth of the Ivory Tower in Tech LeadershipAmrita’s journey at ClickUp shatters the common myth of the ‘ivory tower’ often associated with leadership roles in substantial tech enterprises. Despite the company’s impressive valuation and extensive team, she emphasizes a hands-on approach that defies traditional expectations. At ClickUp, there’s no detachment between the upper management and the operational workforce; instead, the organization champions a flat hierarchy. This structure not only promotes visibility across all levels but also encourages direct involvement in operational tasks, regardless of one’s title.The ethos at ClickUp, as Amrita describes, mirrors what’s often referred to as the ‘Stripe model’—a reference to Stripe’s renowned flat organizational structure. This approach ensures that despite rapid growth, the company maintains an environment where every individual, from interns to VPs, is expected to dive deep into the minutiae of their work. It’s a testament to the belief that understanding and engaging with the details are paramount to effectiveness. ClickUp’s CEO reinforces this by advocating for a culture where being ‘in the details’ is not just encouraged but required.This philosophy stands in stark contrast to what Amrita experienced towards the end of her tenure at Superside, where she could afford to step back, confident in her team’s ability to manage without her direct oversight. At ClickUp, the scenario is vastly different. The expectation to remain operationally involved means leadership roles are as much about rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty as they are about strategic oversight.The ClickUp model demonstrates a pivotal shift in how companies view leadership and organizational structure. It challenges the notion that senior positions are synonymous with distance from the day-to-day operations, highlighting the importance of a collaborative and transparent work environment. This approach not only ensures that leaders remain grounded and connected to their team’s work but also fosters a culture of accountability and shared responsibility.Key takeaway: At ClickUp, success is found not in the isolation of leadership roles but in their integration within the operational fabric of the company. This model serves as a compelling blueprint for marketers: to stay relevant and effective, immerse yourself in the granular aspects of your work, foster transparency, and maintain a willingness to engage across all levels of the organization.Choosing Between Testing and Informed Decision-MakingAmrita sheds light on a prevalent misconception in the marketing world: the notion that every decision should be subjected to testing. This idea, while rooted in the desire to make data-driven decisions, often becomes a stumbling block, delaying action and fostering indecision. With ClickUp’s significant web traffic and signup volumes, one might assume an endless capacity for testing. However, Amrita points out that this isn’t always the most effective approach. Traffic isn’t uniformly distributed across all initiatives, necessitating a more discerning strategy for deciding what to test and what decisions can be made based on informed hypotheses.For instance, the launch of ClickUp’s AI product, Click AppBrain, presented a scenario with zero initial traffic, making traditional A/B testing impractical at the outset. Instead, ClickUp opted for a bold approach, deviating from conventional landing page norms to create something distinctive and engaging. This strategy, as Amrita describes, is about ‘zagging’ when others ‘zig’, striving for uniqueness in a crowded marketplace. The success of their unconventional approach is evident in the substantial interest generated for their launch event, demonstrating that not all marketing initiatives need to be prefaced by rigorous testing.Amrita’s philosophy extends to broader marketing decisions, where not everything falls neatly into the ‘testing’ bucket. Certain endeavors, like sponsoring a podcast, defy straightforward measurement. The decision to proceed often hinges on understanding the audience and trusting the medium’s reach rather than on direct testing outcomes. This highlights the importance of leveraging different marketing disciplines to create compelling campaigns that might not initially lend themselves to A/B testing but are nevertheless rooted in strategic thinking.The approach to testing at ClickUp underlines a crucial balance between data-driven decision-making and intuitive marketing strategies. While A/B testing remains a valuable tool for optimizing conversions and understanding user behavior, Amrita’s insights remind us that marketing’s artistry lies in knowing when to rely on data and when to trust in creativity and market understanding.Key takeaway: Marketers should focus on cultivating an ability to discern which initiatives require validation through testing and which can advance based on informed hypotheses and innovative thinking. This approach not only streamlines decision-making but also encourages creativity and differentiation in a competitive landscape.Optimizing for Velocity of Learning in Early-Stage MarketingIn the formative stages of Superside, Amrita encountered the challenge many startups face: limited traffic and the pressure to demonstrate growth through experimentation. Instead of focusing solely on the quantity of tests, the emphasis was placed on the ‘velocity of learning,’ a concept introduced by her CEO. This shift in perspective, from quantitative to qualitative insights, paved the way for a more flexible and insightful approach to growth.