188 Dr Emma Fromberg: ecological design thinking

How can we use language, metaphors and ecological insights to help people understand what the circular economy really is, and help them design more effective and resilient circular solutions? It’s easy to overlook the power of language in shaping the way we think, influencing our perceptions, ideas and subsequent choices. A prime example is the use of metaphors, figures of speech that compare two seemingly unrelated objects and highlight similarities between them. Dr Emma Fromberg is our guest for episode 188, and she discovered that the metaphors that describe the linear economy – the system that locks us into degenerative, destructive processes – are often also used to describe the circular economy. Emma says that risks perpetuating the same cognitive patterns, when instead, we need transformative change and radically different outcomes. Emma Fromberg is a Research Fellow at King's College London’s Centre for Sustainable Business, where she leads academic–industry partnerships focused on circular economy innovation and sustainable value chains. Emma trained as an Industrial Design Engineer and Strategic Product Designer, and her work explores how business-led activities can contribute to system-level change towards more regenerative and inclusive economic models. Dr Emma Fromberg’s doctoral research investigated the metaphors we use when we talk about the circular economy, and explored how insights from ecology can inform a rethinking of economic systems. That led to the development of Nature’s Playbook, a research-based circular economy innovation tool that supports organisations in applying ecological design thinking in practice.

What if the skills our kids, and our planet, need most for the future are one’s nature has already mastered, often based on closing loops instead of creating waste? That's the question driving much of Dr. Linda Booth Sweeney's work, centred around a belief that we don’t need to shield children – or adults - from complexity. Linda feels that we need to help people lean into complexity, see it as a guide rather than an enemy to shy away from, and to use that understanding to innovate ways to healthier futures. Dr. Linda Booth Sweeney is a systems educator, speaker, and award-winning author who works across generations, from business leaders to children, to turn complexity into innovation for better performance, stronger human systems, and a healthier planet. She holds a doctorate from Harvard’s Graduate School of Education and conducted research at MIT’s Organizational Learning Center and MIT Sloan. Through her work at Toggle Labs, Linda takes big, timely ideas, like circular economy thinking, and makes them accessible and practical for children of all ages. Her new children’s book, Do Bees Pee?: The Curious and Amazing Ways Nature Avoids Poo-llution, brings circular economy strategies to life through bees, elephants, tigers, and parrotfish, helping curious minds of all ages rediscover nature's brilliant, closed loop designs. Linda has written the book to help spark conversations that are ‘curious about connections’, and she explains how those conversations can become a pathway to unlock systems-thinking mindsets for both children and adults. DO BEES PEE has received rave reviews, with one professional reviewer saying it proves nonfiction can be informative, surprising, and a lot of fun! he introduction: “Have you ever seen . . . a toilet for a tiger? Or a bathroom for a bee? What does nature do with all that poo and pee?”, the rhyming questions and interesting answers about how animals and nature handle their waste draws readers in and keeps them engaged. Linda and I discuss the importance of marrying systems thinking with the Circular Economy, and building on some of our past discussions, Linda has very kindly created a brilliant free resource for children, using the examples from Do Bees Pee mapped to the four Circular Economy strategies I set out in the latest edition of A Circular Economy Handbook. I’ve included a link to that in the show notes. Linda explains how systems thinking can help us all improve our lives and our work, and why It’s crucial that we all build a habit of pausing between having thoughts and taking action. We discuss complexity and why we tend to shy away when we encounter it, and why instead, it’s crucial that we lean into it.

The 2026 Circularity Gap Report breaks new ground by setting out a compelling case for the value that's being lost to the global economy through linear economy practices—take, make, waste. Alvaro Conde from Circle Economy is one of the Circularity Gap Report’s lead authors, and Dieuwertje (Dee) Ewalts from Deloitte Netherlands is one of the contributors. Alvaro and Dee will unpack this value loss for us, explain why it’s largely invisible and how instead, using circular approaches can unlock trillions of euros in economic value whilst strengthening resilience. The initial estimates in the 2026 report are colossal: between around 20 to 30 trillion Euros each year is being lost, due to resource inefficiencies, underutilised assets, and premature disposal of long-life assets. To give that number some context, the value of global GDP – Gross Domestic Product - is around €83 trillion, so the value gap is worth between about 1/4 and 1/3 of global GDP each year. These losses are avoidable: a lot of potential value is being wasted, and this provides a massive opportunity for businesses that choose to go circular. Alvaro and Dee will take us through the report, explaining the 5 main pathways of value loss, the key mechanisms driving those losses, and outlining some of the ways that businesses can flip those losses into opportunities.

The Forest Recycling Project (FRP) is a UK charity that’s seeding knowledge, skills and confidence to help people make a positive impact for themselves, their social groups and their communities. FRP reclaims, repurposes, and resells affordable materials that would otherwise end up in landfill or incineration. It specialises in paint, textiles and wood, recycling over 30k litres of pain each year, selling construction and industrial wood waste plus textiles donated by local organisations. It also runs several tool libraries and provides space to a Forest Fixers, a local repair café. Alongside its recycling and reuse initiatives, the Forest Recycling Project delivers practical training and upcycling workshops, tool lending schemes, and community events that encourage people to develop new skills and engage in environmental action, supporting a more circular, resilient future for local communities. Greg Dickson and Penny Gunn will share insights on the Forest Recycling Project’s Green Champions Programmes: 10-week courses for carpentry or textiles. Over the past seven years, more than 600 people have benefited from these programmes, enhancing their skills, confidence, well-being, and employability.

What if a circular packaging solution could fit seamlessly into existing systems, provide a better user experience, and deliver important sustainability benefits? Victor Ljungberg is Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Meadow, a Stockholm-based startup that is collaborating with major packaging companies to provide refillable, recyclable solutions for big brands. Meadow's packaging solution transforms aluminium beverage cans into refillable cartridges combined with reusable dispensers. The system aims to reduce single-use packaging and plastic waste, by leveraging aluminium's high recyclability and low material use. Meadow’s system focuses on convenience and premium user experience, and is designed to be scalable and compatible with existing supply chains. Victor Ljungberg is an entrepreneurial leader with a background in marketing and sales, and a passion for social impact. Victor is also a founding board member at Sparks Generation, a social impact platform that helps young people discover and explore their passions, to avoid isolation and fight mental illness. The MEADOW KAPSUL™ offers a lightweight, user-friendly alternative to linear packaging across multiple industries, including personal care, beauty, food, and beverages. We’ll hear how partnering with global leaders like Ball Corporation enables Meadow to deliver scalable, sustainable packaging solutions that combine environmental impact reduction with enhanced consumer experience.

Sean Petterson explains how Supersede delivers a true 1:1 replacement for plywood and OSB that outperforms wood on durability, safety, cost stability, and supply predictability, without the need for manufacturers to change how they build. Sean Petterson is Supersede’s Co-Founder and CEO, and after beginning his career in construction, Sean has developed and secured multiple patents in manufacturing systems, material science, and applied technologies, with a focus on scalable production and real-world deployment. His experience spans polymer engineering, high-volume manufacturing, and commercialization of hardware and software systems. Supersede is an advanced materials company transforming how structural building products are designed, manufactured, and deployed across marine, RV, specialty vehicles, and construction. Supersede’s products are made from extruded industrial plastic waste, reducing supply chain risk, avoiding import tariffs and providing consistent pricing and reliable availability. Currently, Supersede is focusing on the boatbuilding, recreational and specialty vehicle markets, with additional verticals--including housing construction--coming soon. Sean explains how Supersede’s combination of durability, circularity, and operational efficiency makes sustainability economically compelling for its clients – it solves multiple problems and improves on the existing alternatives for performance and price. We’ll hear about some of Supersede’s many innovations, including micro-plant production units and its offcut buy-back programme, and how its local approach appeals to employees, clients and feedstock providers.

We’re all seeing how geoeconomic tensions are affecting the supply of key resources, including mined minerals and fuels together with food and other biological resources. My guest, Dr Jack Barrie, is the lead author of a recent World Economic Forum white paper, The Future of Materials Systems: cooperation opportunities in a Multipolar World. In the context of today’s world of competing regions and powers - where the multilateral system is really struggling to make progress – Jack and his contributors set out to answer an important question: how do we keep progress going? Dr Jack Barrie is an independent global advisor and researcher specialising in the circular economy, with more than 15 years’ experience working at the intersection of policy, international trade, and material value chains. Most recently, Jack led the Global Materials Collaboration at the World Economic Forum, developing scenarios for international cooperation on materials and circularity to support economic resilience, climate action, and nature-positive outcomes. He has held several global advisory roles, including as a member of the UK Government Circular Economy Task Force and as a specialist advisor to UNECE on ESG traceability of sustainable value chains in the circular economy. Jack is also a member of the World Business Council for Sustainable Development’s Global Circularity Protocol. He holds a PhD in circular economy innovation policy from the University of Strathclyde, alongside further degrees from the University of Cambridge, the University of Edinburgh, and Aalborg University. We’ll discuss the findings of the World Economic Forum white paper, including its key recommendations and how we make those tangible. Jack also shares some surprising insights about how governments are using the circular economy, and why he sees some of those strategies as deeply problematic.

When we look closely, we can see that circular solutions can end up compromising - or even cancelling out - sustainability benefits. In this episode, we’ll discuss research into the psychological concept of moral licensing, and the rebound effect. Dr. Meital Peleg Mizrachi works at the intersection of sustainable fashion, consumer behaviour, and public policy. She is a postdoctoral fellow at Yale University and an adjunct professor at the University of Connecticut, and her research focuses on the environmental and social implications of global fashion systems, including overconsumption, second-hand markets, and regulatory frameworks. Meital explores how policy design, behavioural insights, and economic structures shape sustainable consumption patterns. She is a board member at the Sustainable Fashion Consumption Research Network, and her work has been published in leading academic journals and featured in global media outlets. We’ll discuss unintended consequences of circular economy solutions in fashion, including the rebound effect associated with second-hand consumption. We’ll also talk about her research into the global flows of used clothing with fieldwork in Ghana.

We’re thinking about the business case: how the circular economy addresses the problem—reducing negative impacts from business—and how it provides benefits – or, in business terminology – how it provides “value”. One way of looking at that is to think about the return we get on our manufactured assets—all the products and packaging we send out through the factory gate. When we look at value, we can think about different aspects, including creating value and retaining existing value in products and materials, as well as how our solution might avoid the destruction of value, compared to existing, linear alternatives. We'll look at why it's important to design solutions that solve real problems and make a positive impact along the whole supply-chain for 3 dimensions of affected parties: including the business, its workers, supply chain partners and investors, as well as future generations. But those who we need to support this, to buy into the business case, and to buy the product or service itself, may not be aware that there is a problem. For example, does everyone know how chemicals in plastics and other products are affecting human health? And, even if they're aware of the problem, they may not think that solutions a possible, or know where to find them. As we'll hear, that's where behavioural change and Schwartz's concept of the ‘buyer’s journey’ come in.

Dimitri Naczaj is a behavioural scientist and founder of Bellegarde Scientific Consulting, a research-based consultancy applying behavioural science to the challenges of the circular economy. His work focuses on understanding and changing human behaviour towards sustainable habits, such as sorting for recycling, repair and reuse, and participation to return programs. Dimitri and his colleagues design evidence-based interventions that make circular systems work in practice, on a behavioural level. Since his Ph.D., Dimitri has worked extensively on electronic devices, including collection, repair and reuse. As Dimitri explains, behavioural science helps us find ways to bridge the "say-do" gap, the gap between intentions and actions, so we can encourage circular and sustainable behaviours. Dimitri outlines three ‘moments’ of circular economy behaviours: before using, while using, and after using, and explains how our choices are influenced by a variety of factors including environmental awareness, or personal values, and information transparency. We discuss how behavioural science can support circular options such as repairing, sharing and returning products at the end of life, and if you’d like to learn more, Dimitri recommends three books to read.