#43 Chatter (Ethan Kross, 2021)

This week we're discussing Seth Gillihan's wonderful book on Mindfulness and CBT. Hope you enjoy. Will & Luke 00:00 Introduction 03:50 Key Understanding of the combined model (THINK, ACT, BE) 06:00 Fundamentals of CBT 10:00 Bringing both Mindfullness & CBT together 15:10 Underlying Core Beliefs in CBT (Cognitive layers - automatic thoughts, rules and assumptions, core beliefs) 18:10 Cognitive Distortions 21:00 Finding Leverage 29:30 Links between values and goals 31:00 Mindful decision making process (CBT/Mindfulness approach) (Gut instinct vs internal values vs bodily signals vs emotional decisions) ('Felt evidence') 38:00 Mindful action (deliberate action in line with reality - acknowledging inner world) 40:15 Mindful in your body and bodily awareness (healthy vs unhealthy pain) 44:00 Quick recap on Mindful CBT Model again (4th dimension of awareness) (Clear relationship to thoughts) 45:50 Applying this to relationships (connection, pleasure, pain, conflict, availability, presence, clear mind, predictions, presumptions, 'should' & 'shouldn't', experiencing others more fully) 54:00 Procrastination (fears this is rooted in) (working with fear and discomfort) (feedback loops) 58:00 Final reflections (Incorporating compassion) Find the book: ⁠https://sethgillihan.com/books/mindful-cognitive-behavioral-therapy/⁠ This specific episode can also be heard on: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW?si=5e59f72ff7344f2e Check our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Y_SKLFpax13442jA3giaw/videosListen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW Listen to us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/will-luke-discuss/id1572512365 Listen to us on Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81Zjk2YTNmYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== Also available on: Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Casts, Radio Public.

This week we discuss Schema Therapy by Jeffrey Young et al. Will interviews Luke on his understandings gained from this great book. We go into what a schema is, where they come from, schema modes, the 5 basic emotional needs and how to address the more maladaptive schemas in our lives. Also the impacts of how having rigid schemas and coping styles that aren't flexible to new information can be problematic. We try to frame this discussion through a self development lense for the general listener. Hope you enjoy. Will & Luke 00:00 Introductions - What is a schema?03:30 Where do we get schemas from? 05:50 Early maladaptive schemas? Emotional needs unmet. 08:55 Origins of schemas (5 basic emotional needs: Sense of security, Autonomy - competent identity, freedom to express emotions and needs, spontaneity and play, realistic limits) 12:45 Domains, Needs, Schemas defined 15:55 Difference between conditional schemas vs unconditional schemas 18:59 Applying this self-development (Awareness, reactions/responses, attachment, motivation) Asking - what's the problem or negative life impact? 23:00 Bringing in new awareness and psychological flexibility and compassion 26:31 Change phase (cognitive, behavioural change, compassion based ect) (Challenging on an emotional level and use of imagery) 29:00 How Schema's stay rigid - How coping styles keep them rigid (over compensation, avoidance, surrender) 31:50 The role of temperament on coping styles (patterns we fall into) 37:00 Finding our healthy adult - Schema Modes (Child, Adult, Parent) 40:15 Impact of memory of schemas (procedural memory) 42:30 Change phases again - challenging cognitively, emotionally, behaviourally and interpersonally. (Understand and challenge on a rational level, use of imagery to challenge emotions, trying out new behaviours and habits to act counter to old schemas, having another person respond different and relationships to interact with) 52:00 What are the 18 key schemas? 57:30 Final reflections Find the book: https://schematherapysociety.org/Books This specific episode can also be heard on: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5hudsmo1GWwo7rKoz9jjZX?si=b7acf5e8aece47f4 Check our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Y_SKLFpax13442jA3giaw/videos Listen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW Listen to us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/will-luke-discuss/id1572512365 Listen to us on Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81Zjk2YTNmYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== Also available on: Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Casts, Radio Public.

This week we discuss 'The Wisdom of Insecurity' by Alan Watts. A seminal book of his that is an exploration of the law of reversed effort in a human's quest for psychological security and our efforts to find spiritual and intellectual security in religion and philosophy. Hope you enjoy. Will & Luke 00:00 Introductions 01:50 The Law of Reversed Effort 05:00 The Age of Insecurity (anticipation of pleasures and avoidance of pains perpetuates suffering) (Our inability to enjoy the present moment) 12:00 The 'I' we refer to (treating life as play) (perspective change) 14:30 How we try numb our negative experiences (how we repress pleasure when we try to repress pain) 18:45 The Wisdom of the Body (and it's interaction with the mind) 27:55 How we symbolise aspects of life as a barrier to experience 34:50 Being aware (and how we perpetuate pain) 39:45 The mind as a sponge and the transitory nature of life (more on labelling and the natural flow to life and experience) 45:00 The transformation of life (making choices and decisions) 50:15 The role and practice of morality 55:30 Final reflections Find the book at: https://alanwatts.org/ This specific episode can also be heard/seen on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUgj_-sUzVw Check our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Y_SKLFpax13442jA3giaw/videos Listen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW Listen to us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/will-luke-discuss/id1572512365 Listen to us on Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81Zjk2YTNmYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== Also available on: Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Casts, Radio Public.

This week Luke interviews Will on his recent read of Chatter by Ethan Kross. We cover the key concepts of what mental chatter is, why we have it and the ways it can backfire. Then we get into some really practical strategies to combat it. A great read.    Hope you enjoy.  Will & Luke   00:00 Introductions  01:00 What is chatter  03:45 Why we have chatter   11:00 When talking to ourselves backfires (and discernment)  17:00 Zooming out   21:45 Temporal Distancing and Narrative writing   24:00 The role of perspective, CBT and compassion   30:45 The power and peril of other people. Utilising others to address chatter. Co-rumination trap  38:00 Tools that involve others which lower chatter temperature   41:30 Outside in - environmental supports for chatter. Voluntary and involuntary attention.   44:45 The shrinking of the self   49:30 Benefits of creating order (also rituals)  52:00 Placebo effect   54:30 Final reflections and summary    Find the book at: https://www.ethankross.com/  This specific episode can also be heard on: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1uDjy8SFXz8gaSmAlg26wR?si=a73ff58e2ccf494e  Check our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Y_SKLFpax13442jA3giaw/videos  Listen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW  Listen to us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/will-luke-discuss/id1572512365  Listen to us on Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81Zjk2YTNmYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==  Also available on: Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Casts, Radio Public.

This week, we discussed another fantastic Oliver Burkeman book. The Antidote - Happiness for people who can't stand positive thinking.   Hope you enjoy.  Will & Luke.    00:00 Introductions  03:40 What the book is about? (How we try to be happy and misdirections of self help)  08:30 If we don't address our motivations 'to be happy' (feel we aren't good enough or have low self worth) then we can't be content. Attachments to certain outcomes. Clinging to pleasant, pushing away the negative. (Happiness through uncertainty).  11:30 Negative Capability (learning to tolerate discomfort)  15:00 Law of reversed effort   16:20 Positive Visualisation and Intention setting  20:15 Death reminders (living with life and death a companion)   24:40 Goals can be counterproductive (sacrificing the process by over focusing on the result). Other ways of approaching goals (effectual:resource first then decide goal vs causal: goal first and select resources).  29:45 Approach to habits and systems (when is enough)  38:00 Confronting failure as a vehicle to growth and perfectionism being fear driven  48:10 The safety catch - the hidden catch of insecurity (Longing for futures that we can't control) (Feel vulnerability to experience full range of reactions to the world around us).   54:00 Conclusions   Buy the book: https://www.oliverburkeman.com/   This specific episode can also be seen on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C52ac9Bn7cw Check our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Y_SKLFpax13442jA3giaw/videos   Listen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW   Listen to us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/will-luke-discuss/id1572512365   Listen to us on Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81Zjk2YTNmYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==   Also available on: Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Casts, Radio Public.

This week discuss Four Thousand Weeks by Oliver Burkeman. A fantastic writer who gave us a timely perspective on the antidote to modern productivity strategies and how embracing finitude and accepting our limitations as the way to a more fulfilling life.    Hope you enjoy.  Will & Luke   00:00 Introductions  02:20 What the book is about (Choosing to Choose & Beyond Control)  05:00 Time as a resource and living like we are 'limitless' (leads to us putting off what is important)  13:50 Acknowledging limitations is free-ing. The face we can choose is free-ing. Choosing things to say to no. We have to say no to what we want to do sometimes  15:35 Facing finitude  17:15 Issues around planning (trying to control the future and avoid uncertainty)  20:00 5 Questions around living in deep time (1. Where in life are you pursuing comfort when you'd be better off exploring discomfort?)  26:25 2.Are you judging yourself or holding yourself by standards of performance that are impossible to meet (deciding what to fail at)  32:00 Cosmic Insignificance Therapy (there is meaning in the finite, we don't constantly need to strive to be happy, leisure time doesn't need to be productive) (How would you spend your time differently if you didn't need to watch your actions take fruition?)  40:15 In which areas of life are you still holding back until you know what you're doing? (Everyone is winging it - don't wait to pursue things  42:45 Question 3. In what ways have you yet to accept the fact you are who you are not the person you think you ought to be?  44:30 Tools to embrace finitude: take a fixed volume approach to productivity, make pre-determined time boundaries for daily work,  focus on one big project at a time, keep a done list, consolidate your caring - manage your inputs, embrace single use tech, practice doing nothing.  55:35 Managing time with others (the benefits of collective rhythms)  (the loneliness of the digital nomad)  1:05:30 Value of patience (to develop unique creative endeavours)  1:08:30 Final reflections   Find the book: https://www.oliverburkeman.com/    This specific episode can also be seen on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_pYv1zMWwE Check our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Y_SKLFpax13442jA3giaw/videos   Listen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW   Listen to us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/will-luke-discuss/id1572512365   Listen to us on Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81Zjk2YTNmYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==   Also available on: Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Casts, Radio Public.

This week we discuss both Essentialism and Effortless by Greg McKeown. Two fantastic books that go perfectly together and cover so much in the realm of personal productivity, freedom and time management. Definitely one of our favourites.    Hope you enjoy.  Will & Luke.    00:00 Introductions (Essentials - Explore, Eliminate, Execute) (Effortless - State, Action, Results)  05:00 Concepts of effort in society  07:00 What is an essentialist? What is a non-essentialist?   13:00 The core mindset of an essentialist 'Do less but better'  15:00 Eliminating (what doesn't matter) and Exploring (what is essential to you)   25:00 Importance of trust in shared projects and ways to make projects effortless  28:42 Having the courage to be 'rubbish'. Produce to keep yourself accountable.   29:50 Creating buffers and responding to deadlines. Upper and Lower Limits. "Don't do today what you can't recovery from tomorrow''  34:10 Eliminate - how to cut out the trivial. Saying No. Un-committing. Responding to social norms and external pressures. Weighing up trade offs.   47:15 Hell yeah, or No.   48:50 Effortless - motivation and energy as a limited resources. How to make things easy and not live so relentlessly. Orientation switch. 'If you don't decide your priorities then someone else will'. Doing things that are valuable and matter.   54:30 Final reflections - the difference between doing and being. Identity switch.    Find Greg McKeown's work: https://gregmckeown.com   This specific episode can also be seen on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHD4IiueE38  Check our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Y_SKLFpax13442jA3giaw/videos   Listen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW   Listen to us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/will-luke-discuss/id1572512365   Listen to us on Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81Zjk2YTNmYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==   Also available on: Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Casts, Radio Public.

This week we discuss 'The One Thing' by Gary Keller & Jay Papasan. A really interesting read in the area of productivity and lifestyle design which covers the way in which we can prioritise daily actions which serve our greater goals. We talk about the lies we live; by that everything matters equally, that multitasking is possible and how work/life balance isn't a thing amongst others. Also... The Focusing Questions: 'What's the ONE THING I can do such by doing that everything else will be easier or unnecessary'. We also unpack the concepts of the domino effect, extreme pareto, living by priority, living with purpose, sitting in discomfort of letting other areas of life fall behind as you pursue your one thing, living for productivity and time blocking. A really great way to view the different areas of your life and to put what matters first to get the greatest results in line with your values!   Hope you enjoy.  Will & Luke.    00:00 Introductions  02:20 The concept of 'The One Thing'  05:20 The Lies (1. Everything Matters Equally 2. Multitasking  3. A DisciplinedLife 4. Willpower Is Always on Will-Call 5. A Balanced Life 6. Big Is Bad)  10:03 Maintenance Habits vs Action Habits (and work life balance)  19:53 The Focusing Question 'What's the ONE THING I can do such by doing that everything else will be easier or unnecessary' (Big Picture, Small Focus) (The Domino Effect) (Extreme Pareto)   27:00 Live by Priority (We can have many priorities but there must be one thing right now It's in the journey) (Sitting with discomfort)   30:20 The ONE Thing across different life areas and distractions   37:00 Technology boundaries and distractions  39:45 The impact of these concepts on relationships (being present, deepening relationships)  41:15 Living with Purpose (making sure your daily actions honour this - + WHEN OUR DAILY ACTIONS FULFILL A BIGGER PURPOSE is when we are most happy) (An example)  42:00 The role of habits and finding ones that contribute towards other goals (and routines)  50:40 Planning your life, work and time off. (Time blocking)  54:45 The Four Thieves of our time, energy and attention: 1. Inability to say No 2. Fear of Chaos 3. Poor Health Habits 4. Environment doesn't support goals.  58:45 Final reflections   Find the book: https://the1thing.com/   This specific episode can also be heard on: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5D23iDqRIJsVInshlmBKxC?si=3648875efab34580   Check our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Y_SKLFpax13442jA3giaw/videos   Listen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW   Listen to us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/will-luke-discuss/id1572512365   Listen to us on Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81Zjk2YTNmYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==   Also available on: Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Casts, Radio Public.

This week we discuss Compassion Focused Therapy by Paul Gilbert who is a clinical psychologist and founder of compassion focused therapy (CFT).  We discuss the 3 interacting systems in our mind (Treat, Drive, Soothing), the old brain vs new brain, the mechanisms of change and how to cultivate our mindset to be more compassionate. Alongside compassionate self correction vs shame based self attacking and the attributes of compassions and skills we can develop. Plus much more around shifting from the threat system to a soothing system.   Hope you enjoy.  Will & Luke. 00:00 Introductions  05:00 Key aspect of CFT  07:30 Uses of CBT and interaction with CFT  09:05 3 interacting Systems (Threat, Drive, Soothing)  14:20 Old Brain and New Brain (also physical symptoms)  17:00 The inbuilt soothing system  19:20 The attitude of approaching CFT (de-shaming) (cultivating our mindset)  23:05 The mechanisms of change (1. Disengage from the inner stimulators of threat. 2.Compassionately stand back from one's emotions and observing. 3. Activate the soothing system as a threat regulator. 4. Being able to engage with aversive inner experiences by developing a compassionate inner base)  25:20 Mindset and approaches to CFT. Compassionate self correction vs shame based self attacking. Threat mind vs compassionate mind.   27:20 Attributes of compassion (Sensitivity, Sympathy, Care for well-being, Non-judgemental, Empathy, Distress tolerance) + Skills Training (Imagery, Reasoning, Behaviour, Sensory, Feeling, Attention.   33:00 Social Mentalities (we have a number of these that enable us to seek out and form certain types of relationships). (Competitive vs Caring Mentality)  37:20 Creating a compassionate base and cultivating a compassionate mind  51:00 Striving vs acceptance  54:20 Final reflections and examples around self talk and noticing the systems we enter into. This specific episode can also be seen on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsCvmhEIO7s Check our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Y_SKLFpax13442jA3giaw/videos Listen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW Listen to us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/will-luke-discuss/id1572512365 Listen to us on Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81Zjk2YTNmYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw== Also available on: Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Casts, Radio Public. Find the book: https://www.compassionatemind.co.uk/resource/books 

This week we discuss 'The Art of Living' by Epictetus. An ancient stoic philosopher who's work has influenced much of the self-help and CBT literature of the modern day. We discuss the role of philosophy according to Epictetus, how to focus on what is in our control (as well as how to let go of those thing that are outside of our influence), taking an attitude towards ethical daily decision making, self responsibility and the call to action in life. Also how we develop ourselves in relationship to others and the impacts of our words, actions and attitudes with those around us.  Alongside the power of habit and how to manage our higher ideals against the day to day tasks of living.   Hope you enjoy.  Will & Luke.   00:00 Introductions and context  03:30 The role of philosophy according to Epictetus - The process of becoming who we are  07:40 Focusing and what is in your control. What can we influence? (Call to in the moment mindfulness) (The impact of expectations and judgements) (Seperate reality vs projections)  15:50 Philosophy is for everyone. Application towards daily decision making. Call to self-responsibility and action. Consider who you want to be  18:30 We develop ourself in relation to others (Relational perspective)  21:35 The impact of other people in our lives  28:45 Impact of the conversations, interactions and media we consume  31:40 How are our attitudes, thoughts, words and deeds impacting others around us  36:50 The power of habit to facilitate living by your own ideals (and the cycle of negativity) (Influence on CBT + ACT alongside benefits of mindfulness)  42:00 Managing the day to day vs higher ideals  44:00 Luke's favourite quotes  49:00 Conclusions   Buy the book: https://www.sharonlebell.com/  This specific episode can also be seen on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMZcpkRhHhM  Check our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Y_SKLFpax13442jA3giaw/videos  Listen to us on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2R1BRcriKWcvOU1XMJQhyW  Listen to us on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/will-luke-discuss/id1572512365  Listen to us on Google Podcasts: https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy81Zjk2YTNmYy9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw==  Also available on: Anchor, Breaker, Pocket Casts, Radio Public.