292 – Stop Automating Bad Processes: Why Your AI Strategy is Already Failing

Winning the AI Trust Race Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this compelling discussion from the Ultimate Partner Winter Retreat, Vince Menzione sits down with Marc Monday of ServiceNow and marketing expert Ashleigh Vogstad to deconstruct the “tectonic shifts” currently hitting the tech industry. As the market moves from AI excitement into a period of “POC fatigue,” the conversation pivots to the essential groundwork required for success: clean data, governed workflows, and the transition from an attention economy to a trust-based machine economy. They explore how Gen Z’s massive spending power is reshaping marketplaces and why simply automating a 27-step bad process with AI is a recipe for failure. Whether you are a partner manager or an entrepreneur, this episode provides a roadmap for staying human in a machine-to-machine world. Key Takeaways The market is experiencing “POC fatigue,” making it critical to transition from experimental AI to real-world value driven by central databases and knowledge graphs. ServiceNow is shifting focus toward “Control Tower” solutions to govern and orchestrate how various AI agents interact with mission-critical data. We are moving from a human-centric “attention economy” to a “trust economy” where machines make high-stakes decisions on behalf of users. Automating an existing 27-step approval process without rethinking the workflow first results in an “automated bad process” rather than a solution. By 2030, 75% of B2B buyers will be Gen Z, a demographic that favors authentic voices and direct-to-fan platforms like Substack over traditional channels. Hyperscaler partnerships are becoming essential “third-party validation” layers that allow AI agents to verify a company’s win rates and credibility. If you’re ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags ServiceNow, Marc Monday, Ashleigh Vogstad, Ultimate Partner, AI Fatigue, Agentic AI, Control Tower, Trust Economy, Knowledge Graph, Workflow Engine, Gen Z B2B, Marketplace, Hyperscalers, Machine-to-Machine, Data Governance, POC Fatigue, Substack, LinkedIn, Digital Transformation, Co-Selling, Partner Programs, ERP Intelligence, Uncanny Valley, Marketing Lag, Shared Business Planning. Transcript Ashleigh and Marc Monday Audio Episode [00:00:00] Ashleigh Vogstad: But the reality is, if you’re not using AI in a very meaningful way in your sales and marketing functions of your businesses, I mean you’re just way behind. [00:00:13] Vince Menzione: We just finished Ultimate Partners Winter Retreat here in beautiful Boca to a sold out crowd. Come join me now for a compelling discussion on the impacts of the tectonic shifts we’re all seeing. Maybe just a second about roles and responsibilities. Most of you know Ash from previous, uh, things you’ve been doing with us. [00:00:34] Vince Menzione: But, but maybe for you, Martin, this is your first time. [00:00:36] Marc Monday: Where should I [00:00:37] Vince Menzione: look there? Alternate partner. Their lives [00:00:38] Marc Monday: there? [00:00:39] Vince Menzione: Uh, yeah, over here is good. Either one. [00:00:41] Marc Monday: Look over there. Which would you prefer? [00:00:43] Vince Menzione: Um, this is good. [00:00:44] Marc Monday: Great. It’s, [00:00:45] Vince Menzione: and, but right now I’m just asking you for everybody, tell everybody who you are in your role. [00:00:49] Vince Menzione: ’cause you just shifted roles at ServiceNow. It’s [00:00:51] Marc Monday: true. It’s true. Hello everyone. My name is Mark one day and I lead the America’s partner business, uh, partner sales business at ServiceNow today. And effective Monday I’ll lead the global partner team. Uh, Jen Odes, who’s been on the podcast. Yes. She’s been and I are switching roles. [00:01:07] Marc Monday: Jen’s gonna go run the patch and I’m gonna run the programs, uh, effective next week. [00:01:11] Vince Menzione: That’s fantastic. [00:01:12] Marc Monday: And I live in Seattle. [00:01:15] Vince Menzione: You live in Seattle. Yeah. And you made the trip out here. I really appreciate that. It’s a long journey. And Vancouver or Whistler? So both of you came from the, from the West coast. [00:01:23] Marc Monday: This may be the first snowboarding panel in history of ultimate partner. [00:01:29] Ashleigh Vogstad: I liked the question earlier. Somebody asked, did anyone leave the snow to be here? It was literally a blizzard. I did not know if I would make it driving at 4:00 AM to the airport in a total whiteout. [00:01:41] Marc Monday: You’re getting zero sympathy from me Live in Whistler. [00:01:44] Vince Menzione: So, so Service now has been, uh, I would say on the forefront of this AI thing. I mean, like you were early in and control towers, that I always get the, the nomenclature wrong, but I do feel like we are seeing some, a level of fatigue right now. And I keep seeing, I mean, it feels like every, we’re getting whiplashed at least the last few weeks. [00:02:03] Vince Menzione: Are you seeing that? And what are the two or three biggest blockers you’re seeing now in the market? [00:02:10] Marc Monday: I think there’s, there’s a lot of excitement obviously in the marketplace, but there is a bit of AI fatigue. There’s a POC fatigue, I think that’s going on. I think the reality is we have to make AI real, and the reality is it starts with good data, uh, a, a central, uh, a database, and really making sure that that’s extensible through a knowledge graph. [00:02:31] Marc Monday: And then that provides us the ability to identify that workflow. Then importantly, um, making it real and, and as fast as possible. And I think that’s really important for the customer. One of the value props of ServiceNow, of course, is that we’ll meet the customer where they are with whatever their estate has, [00:02:47] Vince Menzione: right? [00:02:47] Marc Monday: So any hyperscaler, any workload, any core dataset, um, any LLM and, um, our history is as a workflow engine, and so we can bring that level of knowledge to their business. And then importantly, we bring together the governance and orchestration from a control tower perspective. [00:03:08] Vince Menzione: Nice. Ash had perspective on this, on the kind of the whiplash we’ve been feeling. [00:03:13] Vince Menzione: From From the marketing agency side? [00:03:15] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. I mean, what comes to mind is the Miriam Webster dictionary said that LOP is the 2025 Word of the Year lop and Satchin Nadella actually came out with some press immediately following on that, saying that essentially that LOP is an exactly a useful construct to be having a conversation around the future of media. [00:03:37] Ashleigh Vogstad: But I think what this is pointing to is just we’re all navigating. Exactly how much AI is good ai, and maybe we will get into a little bit later, but what is the difference between selling to a human being and selling to a machine? Um, and really when we’re getting into this age agent landscape, it’s much more about that machine to machine conversation. [00:04:01] Ashleigh Vogstad: It’s not necessarily. Human eyeballs on recommendation links that is paid for by advertising. It’s more of a trust economy actually, where machines wanna be able to make decisions on our behalf with high trust so that you continue to enable that machine to make those decisions for you. [00:04:22] Vince Menzione: We talked about the data. [00:04:23] Vince Menzione: I thought we’d double click a little bit on that. In fact, that point it would normally have been here, but because of the snow wasn’t able to, they focus in on this governance and this data element. I was thinking maybe we could talk a little bit about that, because it doesn’t seem like AI will work properly if we don’t have the data to stay governed and clean, right? [00:04:42] Marc Monday: I think this is the amazing opportunity for the partners out there. They do this already. This is one of those assessments that’s so quick and not easy, but clear to deliver a value prop as a partner. Let’s get you ready for ai. Let’s make sure that we’re ensuring that your data’s in a extensible in a way across, uh, some sort of knowledge graph that can be accessed across a number of different, um, use cases. [00:05:09] Marc Monday: And oftentimes that’s multiple data sets. And so how do you get those columns and rows organized in a way that’s extensible for an agent, that we’re basically asking to do something that is an unique opportunity for partners right now. And I, I think that we maybe missed that step. So I see what I see happening right now is we’ve gotta come back to that as a starting point for the partners. [00:05:31] Vince Menzione: Let’s talk about agent ai or you also have orchestration AI as well. I wanna talk about their, your new service platform specifically, but maybe if you could double click with this on that. [00:05:42] Marc Monday: Well, I think that, you know, everyone is kind of trying to figure out how do we get there and who’s gonna orchestrate and govern what AI agent is calling on, what data set at what time, and what sequence. [00:05:54] Marc Monday: You may have a mission critical application that needs to have immediate access, and you may have other agents that have casual access. How do you control that in a meaningful way is gonna be become increasingly important. So we have the idea of this product that we call control tower. The control tower gives you the ability to manage that orchestration as well as the governance. [00:06:14] Vince Menzione: Any perspective on this? [00:06:17] Ashleigh Vogstad: I think I’ll share the perspective. As an entrepreneur, I know many people here represent. Companies that are our clients and are, are massive in scale and, and hyperscalers. But I think there are some people in the room who are running their own organizations. I think when I came out, Vince asked, you know, Ash growth mindset, how are you actually living this? [00:06:36] Ashleigh Vogstad: And we’re going through a journey in my business right now around what are all of the data sources that we have and how can we get that into an enterprise resource planning type system so that we can then overlay more intelligence. And that’s kind of where we’re at in the, it’s funny ’cause when you look at those maturity curves, they try and fit you in a box. [00:06:57] Ashleigh Vogstad: Nobody here likes being in a box. Um, and we’re in a corner. Yeah. In some ways it’s like we’re in that agentic box. I built an agent last week, funny enough for Microsoft actually, um, an executive comms agent, but in one hand we’re on that end and on the other, our data’s a mess and we really can’t apply a lot of intelligence to the majority of the data sources within our organization. [00:07:20] Ashleigh Vogstad: So we’re getting that all together right now. [00:07:22] Vince Menzione: When you came out, we talked a little bit, you were, you were mentioning having an advertising agency, marketing agency. The changes that are going on right now. Right? The attention economy and the trust economy. And I thought maybe you could double click with us on that. [00:07:35] Vince Menzione: ’cause that’s, uh, very interesting to see this shift. [00:07:39] Ashleigh Vogstad: It’s a huge shift. So, uh, 1964 Canadian philosopher, Marshall McCluen, he comes out and he says The medium is the message. [00:07:49] Audience Question: Yeah. [00:07:49] Ashleigh Vogstad: And so you wanna think about how is agenta a different medium and what are the biases that this medium inherently has? So in my media world, you know, you get these storytelling tools rolling out at Speed Chat, GBT, soa, and in the beginning they’re really at that low end of the curve. [00:08:08] Ashleigh Vogstad: You know, they can produce a shitty first draft, uh, but the content that they’re creating is really low emotional resonance. If you take kind of a neuroscientist perspective on this, and I’m definitely not a neuroscientist, but the part of your brain that’s responsible for that pattern recognition, your cortical sal circuit, that’s what’s kicking in. [00:08:29] Ashleigh Vogstad: And when you’re looking at, say, an advertisement, you’re starting to think, you know, is what I’m looking at actually commensurate with what I expect to see? And when it’s not, you can trigger that what psychologists call your uncanny valley. Now some will argue that on County Valley is really diminishing these days because AI generated media is getting better and better. [00:08:52] Ashleigh Vogstad: And I do think that it’s something you want to lean in, but you also wanna think intelligently around how you’re using this new medium and exactly what its, what its biases are. [00:09:03] Vince Menzione: Is that the gut syndrome? Like when you feel something in your gut? Is that what you described? [00:09:07] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the classic example is Coca-Cola. [00:09:10] Ashleigh Vogstad: So 2024 Coca-Cola rolled out their very nostalgic for many of us holiday campaign, and they decided to use tools like Luma Dream Machine to make this whole Santa Claus North Pole, but AI generated universe. And it had that classic stuff around, you know, six fingered people and it gave you this. Kind of creepy post-apocalyptic vibe and the campaign completely tanked in market. [00:09:37] Ashleigh Vogstad: Or more recently, last year, mango rolled out a new fashion line Mango’s a huge global fashion retailer. They rolled out a new fashion line, and in their advertisements they had AI generated models and AI generated clothing. Like to sell a real line. So, you know, you, you have to really be thinking about, again, when we come to an attention economy based on human beings or a machine economy based on trust, many of these companies are still selling to us human beings. [00:10:09] Ashleigh Vogstad: And I, I think they can forget that at times. [00:10:12] Vince Menzione: So what’s your guidance to customers today and to this audience and viewers watching us today from a go-to market motion? In this world of ai, like what? What are you telling? What? How are you counseling these organizations? [00:10:25] Ashleigh Vogstad: You need to have an authentic voice. [00:10:27] Ashleigh Vogstad: We, we’ve heard this a million times, so I’ll try and put a bit of a, a different spin on it at platforms direct to fan platforms, things like Substack. Substack grew 48% last month. I mean, we are seeing this skyrocket, and that’s a new channel where you can have an authentic voice. Many people in this room, myself included, we live on LinkedIn as the business to business platform. [00:10:50] Ashleigh Vogstad: Consider expanding out into, into a new channel, um, would be one of my recommendations. Interesting. [00:10:57] Vince Menzione: Any, anything else from, uh, what you developed or what you use and ai and what do you, what, what tools do you recommend they use and what. [00:11:06] Ashleigh Vogstad: There. [00:11:06] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:11:06] Ashleigh Vogstad: What are we seeing with our, so I can give this example of this executive comms agent that we built. [00:11:12] Ashleigh Vogstad: Or even part, yeah, we’re building agents all the time, so what we try to do is think about what is our customer seeking to solve. We heard a lot today about outcomes, and then we challenge an AI first lens, which is how can we build something with AI to make this easier, better, faster, more creative? We’ll even do things, we’re a marketing agency, so we’ll even do things like beat the bot, pitch competitions. [00:11:37] Ashleigh Vogstad: So this is where you’re inviting your agent into the room and you’re asking it to put the pitch together, say for ServiceNow and Microsoft, and what can it come up with? And then we put it in a room of human beings and see who can out pitch. Bot, um, and come up with a more novel, creative idea. But the reality is, if you’re not using AI in a very meaningful way in your sales and marketing functions of your businesses, I mean, you’re just way behind. [00:12:07] Ashleigh Vogstad: And I see it a bit more advanced in all honesty and sales because I think some of your large. Organizations push the AI down to the sellers. Mm-hmm. Um, so they’re somewhat forced to use it, but in marketing, I’m still seeing a real lack, which is funny since generative AI came out in 2022 and everybody thought the marketing function was the one to really be disrupted and displaced. [00:12:30] Ashleigh Vogstad: I do think your marketing teams need to be leaning in more. [00:12:35] Vince Menzione: We were talking about trust earlier. I wanna weave this into the conversation. Right. How do, how do you. How do you think through trust and applying trust in the area I world, I’ll ask you both this question under service. Now think about it. How do you think about it or transcend? [00:12:54] Marc Monday: Maybe I’ll take a step back. I, I think just to kind of go back to the previous question, I think we’re in this age of massive complexity. Incredible complexity. Nina said it earlier, the customers kind of want us to tell them what to do. What are the steps? We’re at this dichotomy of this level of complexity that’s almost unimaginable and we have to make it simple. [00:13:18] Marc Monday: I think that’s the first one. And then that, that is put up against this notion of we have to go incredibly fast ’cause the market’s moving faster than we can even understand it. [00:13:28] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:13:29] Marc Monday: And then we have to add on this veneer, and this is where the partner community becomes so important of how do we scale? [00:13:35] Marc Monday: So how do you take simplicity, speed, and scale and bring it to market? It starts with the data, of course it starts with the workflow, but I might just take a giant step back and say one of the things that another partner opportunity you might run to really consider is automating a bad process, even with AI is still a bad process. [00:13:58] Marc Monday: So again, a partner opportunity is, let’s zoom back out and say if your approval. Takes 13 steps in 27 days, building an AI process around that. Without rethinking it might not be the right solution. So I think part of it is also like rather than just dictating all of the steps, part of it, to the point of telling the customer the steps is getting them to participate in that conversation. [00:14:29] Marc Monday: Why do you have 27 approval layers? Well. It’s the most dangerous thing in the language. It’s because we’ve always done it that way. Well, what if we did it differently? Yeah. And so I think that’s an area where the trust is a two-way street and you can’t just the part, the customer shouldn’t just outsource all of their decision making to you. [00:14:50] Marc Monday: At the same time, you have to bring them into that discussion of what are you trying to accomplish and what is your, um, risk appetite relative to that. [00:15:02] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah, that, that’s great, mark. I mean, trust is a really important conversation. I think about the Amazon versus Perplexity lawsuit right now that some are headlining the end of commerce. [00:15:14] Ashleigh Vogstad: Um, and so really this precedent setting case, what this is about is perplexity. Essentially is disintermediating the Amazon platform. So you know it’s making purchase decisions on your behalf, so, so this idea of trust in the agent world is something I think about a lot. And how do you optimize trust for this agentic world? [00:15:36] Ashleigh Vogstad: The professor I was mentioning, Eric Zow, who has this attention economy and the trust economy for agents where my research is leaning in is really around what is the hyperscaler layer on top of that. My working theory is that hyperscaler partnerships are just gonna become more important because the machines need to verify via trusted third party data sources what it is that you’re up to. [00:16:02] Ashleigh Vogstad: So how many deals have you done? Uh, what is your win rate percentage? This kind of information is incredibly valuable to the agent world, and so I think we’re gonna see an. Increasing lean in to these third party validation co-selling systems like partner center. [00:16:22] Marc Monday: I mean, just to add onto yeah. This idea, I mean, we do talk a lot about trust, but attention is probably underserved if I think about the role of a partner manager or an alliance director, it’s all about the trade-offs of what am I gonna spend my time on today? [00:16:37] Marc Monday: And you’re being pulled in a million directions, and I dunno about you, but it’s probably 900 to 10,000 unread emails and maybe you’ll respond to your immediate messages and if something happens, you’ll respond in in text. Part of it is also delineating between the busyness and the impact, and I think a lot of that’s also part of this discussion of how do we get focused on the outputs that matter. [00:17:02] Marc Monday: Really helping the customer get there through that discussion, which again goes back to it has to be a dialogue with the customer rather than just, this is the solution. Here’s our SOW. We’ll see you in six months. [00:17:14] Vince Menzione: Agree. We have a couple extra minutes. I was thinking of maybe opening it up for you. Any questions? [00:17:19] Vince Menzione: We have a mic in the back and I’m sure people have questions about this topic is, is fascinating to me and I wanna make sure that we’ve covered any of the questions we have. We have one right in the front from Shannon. [00:17:30] Marc Monday: Send the hard [00:17:31] Vince Menzione: questions over there. Not Yes. I’ll take the Easy books. Yeah. [00:17:36] Audience Question: You referenced marketing lag. [00:17:38] Audience Question: I think all of us would love to see marketing leading. [00:17:41] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yes. [00:17:42] Audience Question: Um, so how are you infusing within your marketing team at different levels around content creation? Um, there’s so much, uh, ego right on being a graphic designer or an editor, a copy editor that they. The human inflation in that conversation is a, is a hard thing to get them over. [00:18:02] Audience Question: And now AI can help this. How are you? [00:18:04] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah, let’s have a conversation after. But you just brought up a funny No, I’m gonna answer as well, but you brought up, brought up a funny, uh, conversation we had internally, just in the last 24 hours we’re interviewing for a new creative director and one of our candidates said, yes, but I don’t do Figma. [00:18:20] Ashleigh Vogstad: I’m not a UX person. I just laughed and I said, you know, the day is coming where It’s a designer, it’s a UX person, it’s a project manager, a program manager, a copywriter. You know, AI is condensing a lot of roles in that way. So I think being multidisciplinary in your skillset is, um. Is quite valuable, but I’ll also take this into a hyperscaler direction and say, no. [00:18:46] Ashleigh Vogstad: Here audiences, 75% of it buyers are going to be Gen Z by 2030. They have 12 trillion in spending power. I was in Silicon Valley yesterday, uh, helping a customer with a wind story. They did a $12 million transaction through Marketplace. Now that’s very impressive, but it would’ve been more impressive two years ago. [00:19:06] Ashleigh Vogstad: There are more and more, 10 million plus. Deals happening through marketplace. And so if you look at that Gen Z and start to understand them and their buying behavior, like another example is, I think it’s 80%, no, no half, sorry, half of Gen Z last month made a purchase via Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube. They are used to making these online transactions and average purchase price is going up. [00:19:35] Ashleigh Vogstad: You know, $500,000 plus is starting to be the average in some of these enterprise selling platforms. So as a marketing team, how are we kind of going in and leading the marketplace? Conversation I think is really critical and there’s technical elements to that. [00:19:52] Marc Monday: Maybe the caveman view of that would be, um, the other side, which is I think someone earlier said, we have to know where our customer is at. [00:20:00] Marc Monday: And a lot of our, we are very lucky. We live in this very insular tech bubble and we’re thinking about, you know, where we are 10 years from now and the customer’s gonna are gonna get there eventually, and it’s gonna happen faster. But I would say in marketing, I mean the two easiest use cases right now are around localization. [00:20:16] Marc Monday: Language localization and then specific market localization, like we don’t have to solve world hunger right now. There are some steps and those steps are some of the easy things. Localization probably is a big component of your marketing budget. That’s something that you can get really good, really fast language localization, addition market localization. [00:20:35] Marc Monday: This market is a healthcare market. This market is an SMB market. Those are two areas where that through partner marketing motion can to get accelerated very quickly and has a tremendous ROI. [00:20:47] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Great one. Nina, you had a question [00:20:50] Audience Question: three Mark. You, you just, you just hit on part of it is that value proposition message is, it’s really easy in AI to, to fine tune that. [00:20:59] Audience Question: The other thing that I’ll be very transparent about, um, at least in my organization and America’s partner, we only work with um, third party. Marketing vendors now that are AI first period. [00:21:12] Audience Question: Nice. We [00:21:12] Audience Question: completely cleaned out who the vendors are that we will approve to work with. Wow. Um, so because we can also see the cost reduction, but it is a mindset change. [00:21:22] Audience Question: They have to, they, if, if they’re gonna be positioning this, it has to be inherent. It has to be part of their culture of, at. [00:21:29] Marc Monday: Ashley made a really wonderful point. I mean, this bad first draft is so key and so, you know, in the past we would’ve spent. A couple days or maybe even a week on a really bad first draft. [00:21:40] Marc Monday: And the bad first draft is just to generate feedback. You can generate a bad, a good, bad first draft in a couple of minutes with the right prompts. [00:21:48] Vince Menzione: Yeah, good. Point. Point questions to the back, Steven. [00:21:55] Audience Question: Mark, as you guys are building out agents, the orchestration to manage them, is that taking you into workflows outside of ServiceNow? [00:22:05] Audience Question: Yes. [00:22:07] Vince Menzione: Repeat the question, sorry. Yeah. Just in case people aren’t getting [00:22:09] Marc Monday: Yes. The question is, um, for ServiceNow specifically, um, is that taking you out of your traditional business? And I think he, he means it’s probably business in it, and the answer is yes. So our value promise is that we can go north, south, east, west, across the estate. [00:22:24] Marc Monday: Regardless of the workflow. So there are scenarios where we are expanding. Of course, we have a commitment to driving the CRM business, moving beyond just customer service management, but all the way through the process to CPQ and we’ll productize many of those things. But the reality is, if the workflow touches, let’s say. [00:22:42] Marc Monday: Uh, a, a big database, you know, from one of your known providers, uh, an HCM system, your our traditional IT system. This is maybe around service delivery of a particular set of kit to a new employee for onboarding or offboarding across a number of those systems of record. Yes, we’ll continue to do that, and honestly, it’s the value promise for us that because we are capable of working with. [00:23:06] Marc Monday: Every hyperscaler, every application, every data set, we can go up and down and across the state. [00:23:12] Audience Question: Hi everyone. I’m Jen Pauls. Hey, Jen. I have a um, I have a question for you. So when you’re incorporating AI, and also you mentioned trust, how do you make sure that the offerings that you’re coating on are feasible specifically for that whole individual partner and client? [00:23:34] Audience Question: And you’re not repeating. Something. Does that make sense to you? Yeah. Like how do you make sure that there is an individualized component that is original in thought, even though you’re feeding this pipeline, all these combined thoughts? [00:23:51] Marc Monday: I, I don’t wanna push back on the premise, but I do think in some instances, partners, implementers will have competing solutions that do effectively the same thing. [00:23:59] Marc Monday: Ideally they’re differentiated, but I do think publishing a, a standard. Particularly from a security and a reliability perspective, what that traditionally we would’ve called that API standard, and then a level of validation, either via human validation or systemic AI validation is really key. Um, the solution that gets marketed, let’s say, in our marketplace should work and it should be secure and it should be reliable. [00:24:25] Marc Monday: So we processes to manage that, if that’s the question. [00:24:29] Audience Question: Right? Well, it would, you know, yes. Yes. But. Um, when you’re trying to create a dispute or an offering, right, that’s specific to that particular partner, this is where I’m going. How do you make sure that the thoughts that are coming in are specifically, I guess, individualized for that one partner and what they’re doing and how they’re going to make a new, um, new, uh, track or a new journey in what you’re selling? [00:24:57] Ashleigh Vogstad: I mean, I would answer that I think with differentiation is still really important. And if anything, if we had an 80 20 rule for 80% of the lift is coming from ai, we’re all still here and employed because there is a rule for the, the human, at least currently in that 20%. And I would say. Running teams who are often building new offers and products, both on the ISV and SI side of things. [00:25:25] Ashleigh Vogstad: Getting that unique differentiation is critically important. Like that’s where a lot of value is created. Or you could look at, I mean Nabil probably has stories about this all day in the MSP world is it’s really challenging for MSPs to differentiate on top of their core offering, but that is where value creation happens. [00:25:43] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. Nina more, I’ll [00:25:44] Audience Question: just piggyback on that. My recommendation to a lot of, of our partners today is build out agents at that 80% watermark. Right? And that’s a little bit what you were talking about, the 80, 20, 80% of that functionality. Quite honestly, if you’re looking at an call center or something, is something that can be ported. [00:26:05] Audience Question: The, the magic is working with the partner on what X 20 is that differentiates their business, their experience, how, uh, the applicability to. So I, I will, I, to your point about ology, the premise, I mean it, to me, I think repeatability is, is awesome. It’s a superpower. It’s gonna get us there faster. It’s in that 20%. [00:26:31] Audience Question: Yeah. [00:26:34] Vince Menzione: Thank, perfect, thank you. [00:26:36] Marc Monday: Maybe I’ll close with with one really simple use case just for all of us that are in the partner profession and we work in alliances or partner management. The easiest and best, most effective use case for us as power users today is a shared business plan. Here are the goals and objectives of us as a vendor or a platform provider. [00:26:57] Marc Monday: Here are the goals and objectives of us as the implementer or a resell partner. Um, and in the past I used to describe this as a really complicated bow tie. On one side, you’d have our goals, and on the other side you’d have the, the, the implementer’s goals. And you’d spend all this time weaving together a knot and try to tie it together. [00:27:16] Marc Monday: That activity can happen in about five seconds with the right prompt. And you can very quickly say, oh, you guys think about a CV. We think about a RR Oh, your fiscal year is, is offset. Your fiscal year isn’t, oh, you call this product something different. Um, we care about platform revenue. We care about services revenue. [00:27:35] Marc Monday: You can reconcile that into a pretty darn good shared scorecard and business plan in a matter of seconds. Yeah, and that is a huge time saver. I [00:27:45] Vince Menzione: love that. [00:27:47] Ashleigh Vogstad: It’s just an ama uh, it just thumbs up for me because that joint business planning just doesn’t happen enough. I, I’m in some of the biggest alliances on, on the planet really, and it’s shocking to me how little joint business planning is done. [00:28:00] Ashleigh Vogstad: And for the marketing question, Shannon, like how can marketers lean in? I mean, market development funds are made available based on things like joint business plugs. [00:28:09] Vince Menzione: That’s right. Yeah, really great point. Great voice. Thank you so much. So good to have you finally have you here. Thank you, mark and Ash. [00:28:17] Vince Menzione: Thank you so much [00:28:18] Audience Question: Owens. [00:28:19] Vince Menzione: Don’t forget, ultimate Partner Live is coming soon, May 11th through the 13th in beautiful Bellevue, Washington. I hope to see you there.

Mastering Ecosystem Growth and AI Transformation Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this episode, Vince Menzione sits down with Rebecca Jones, Chief Growth Officer of Bridge Partners, to deconstruct the “Power of Three” co-selling model and the shift from AI experimentation to scalable business outcomes. They explore the critical importance of customer-centricity, the role of agentic workflows in solving complex B2B problems, and why the most successful leaders prioritize progress over perfection to show momentum within weeks rather than years. From her background in the financial sector to her experience scaling with industry titans like Microsoft, Rebecca provides a masterclass on navigating the current “tectonic shifts” in technology through strategic alignment and executive commitment. Key Takeaways Bridge Partners focuses on connecting strategy to execution, boasting a 90% referral rate driven by deep expertise in product marketing and partner ecosystems. The market is shifting from mere AI “dabbling” to purposeful applications in MVP and scale, specifically through agentic AI that tackles real business problems. Success in today’s landscape requires knowing your underlying value and maintaining an unwavering focus on customer-centricity. The “Power of Three” (Hyperscaler, GSI, and ISV) remains the ultimate design for go-to-market scaling, provided there is a clear joint value proposition. To show immediate momentum, new executives should focus on “quick wins” achievable within six to eight weeks rather than long-term three-year plans. Effective co-selling requires removing blockers like compensation misalignment and securing top-down executive sponsorship across all leadership silos. If you’re ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. https://youtu.be/nClWjCm6S6A At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Rebecca Jones, Bridge Partners, Chief Growth Officer, co-selling, Power of Three, Hyperscaler, GSI, ISV, SAP, Microsoft, agentic AI, AI experimentation, pipeline velocity, pre-sales workshops, account-based marketing, ABM on steroids, GTM strategy, executive sponsorship, partnership ecosystems, B2B growth, tech industry trends 2026, Ultimate Partner, Vince Menzione, orchestration, value proposition. Transcript Rebecca Jones Audio Episode [00:00:00] Rebecca Jones: Because most of the agents I’ve seen drop into um, a lot of the areas where you and I can download are features. [00:00:07] Vince Menzione: Yes, [00:00:08] Rebecca Jones: they’re really feature agents. I love where we are ’cause we’re starting to tackle real business problems. [00:00:17] Vince Menzione: We just finished Ultimate Partners Winter Retreat here in beautiful Boca to a sold out crowd. Today I’m joined by Rebecca Jones, the Chief Growth Officer of Bridge Partners for this compelling discussion. Rebecca, welcome to the podcast. [00:00:33] Rebecca Jones: Thank you, Vince. [00:00:34] Vince Menzione: I am so thrilled to have you in Boca in the studio. [00:00:37] Vince Menzione: We’ve been working together now for a couple of years. We [00:00:39] Rebecca Jones: have, [00:00:40] Vince Menzione: and yesterday we were at the Ultimate Partner live executive winter retreat here in Boca. Uh, we’re recording in late February, early March timeframe. And, uh, just it was so thrilling to have everyone in the room yesterday. [00:00:55] Rebecca Jones: Was it? I mean, the energy. [00:00:56] Rebecca Jones: It was amazing. [00:00:57] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:00:58] Rebecca Jones: it was amazing. And thank you so much for having me. I mean, Florida’s gorgeous this time of year. It’s nice to get outta Seattle. [00:01:04] Vince Menzione: Well, it’s, it’s always, I, I, we, we love Seattle. Yes, we love, we do love to be in Seattle and especially in the spring, which we’ll be there together. We’ll talk about that in a little bit, but, um. [00:01:14] Vince Menzione: This is our first time actually having an interview. I mean, we’ve had you on stage. Yes. We’ve had Bridge as a part. Bridge Partners has been a partner. It’s ultimate partner. How’s that? And, uh, you’ve led some workshops. You help organizations to be successful and I thought just like to start out like, tell us more about you. [00:01:32] Vince Menzione: Yeah, bridge Partner and your role at Bridge Partners. And, uh, just to frame, to frame the conversation today. [00:01:40] Rebecca Jones: Okay. Of course. So let me tell you a little bit about my background. Um, I’ve been in the technology industry for a few decades now, and I started within the product and go to market, side of the house. [00:01:54] Nice. [00:01:54] Rebecca Jones: And I’ve navigated across a number of functional areas. From product to partner and sales. [00:02:02] Vince Menzione: So product development, [00:02:04] Rebecca Jones: engineering, [00:02:04] Vince Menzione: product marketing. Product marketing. [00:02:05] Rebecca Jones: Product marketing. [00:02:06] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:02:07] Rebecca Jones: Yes. And so when you look back on the areas of where I focus my time, it’s really how do you help customers grow and how do you help companies grow? [00:02:17] Rebecca Jones: Um, and a lot of my background is in B2B. [00:02:20] Vince Menzione: Very cool. [00:02:21] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:02:21] Vince Menzione: And where’d you get your start? [00:02:23] Rebecca Jones: I started actually in the financial sector. [00:02:26] Vince Menzione: Very cool. [00:02:27] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, [00:02:27] Vince Menzione: very cool. That’s, well, that’s a good grounding and [00:02:30] Rebecca Jones: it’s an excellent grounding. And when you look back, and when I look back at what that provided as a foundation, it’s really the economics of a business and how do you help a business and what are the trend lines behind that by industry and and whatnot. [00:02:45] Rebecca Jones: And so I moved from that over to. More agency view, and so the real market facing view and then back inside to really look at how companies develop their products and bring ’em to market. [00:02:56] Vince Menzione: That’s an exciting, well, I think it’s exciting. I hope our listeners and viewers think it’s exciting and I know Bridge Partners because when I was at Microsoft, we worked with Bridge Partners. [00:03:06] Vince Menzione: But for the listeners and viewers that are with us today, maybe a little bit of background about the company and its, and its structure and go to market. [00:03:13] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, of course. So Bridge Partners is almost 20 years old. [00:03:18] Vince Menzione: Wow. [00:03:19] Rebecca Jones: Wow. [00:03:19] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:03:19] Rebecca Jones: Can you believe it? [00:03:20] Vince Menzione: We were newbies when I was working with you. [00:03:22] Rebecca Jones: We, we were newbies and uh, the company was really founded on the principle of how do you connect strategy to execution. [00:03:32] Rebecca Jones: And within that, our first customer was Microsoft. [00:03:36] Vince Menzione: Interesting. [00:03:37] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, and that was an incredible spot to be and an incredible time to be in a company that started to evolve and grow with one of the titans in the industry. And obviously a incredible market leader in the tech industry. [00:03:56] Vince Menzione: Well, and that time 20 years ago, ’cause I was, I was along for that journey. [00:03:59] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:04:00] Vince Menzione: Uh, it was a time of tumultuous change at Microsoft. [00:04:03] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:04:04] Vince Menzione: Uh, in fact, we were talking about the, uh, entrepreneur’s dilemma earlier, uh, today, and Microsoft was going through that period where, you know, we, everyone loves Steve Bomber, but there was a time within the organization that it was stuck. [00:04:18] Rebecca Jones: Mm-hmm. [00:04:19] Vince Menzione: And it had to transform as an organization. [00:04:22] Rebecca Jones: A hundred percent. And so when you think about companies like Microsoft, it’s not only what they do, but how they bring that to market. Yep. And uh, so when you think about where Bridge Partners started and having the privilege to be in Microsoft of all places to, um, cut your teeth on you look at where we started and where we’ve grown from there. [00:04:44] Rebecca Jones: Uh, within the tech industry, we’ve worked across, um, multiple hyperscalers. We’ve worked across, uh. Really the top tier tech and telco, those top 100. Yep. And all the household names. And then throughout that, across the partner ecosystem, because you and I both know these companies grow and scale their businesses through the partner ecosystem, and so we’ve been privileged to work across. [00:05:08] Rebecca Jones: Multiple depth and breadth partners in that play. [00:05:12] Vince Menzione: And as an agency, are you more known for project management go to market? Uh, what, what are the areas and focus where the outcomes that you achieve? [00:05:21] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, so we’re known for. Being on the growth side of the house. And how I define that is you find us in marketing, but that center of gravity is in product marketing. [00:05:32] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:05:32] Rebecca Jones: And then how you scale that through partner ecosystems and then supporting that field or that sales organization. So when you think about those three pillars within the organization, that’s where you’ll find us. [00:05:43] Vince Menzione: And why would I choose Bridge Partners? [00:05:46] Rebecca Jones: Oh, well, um, based on experience. Um, and then when you think about Bridge Partners, it’s not, um, just what we do, but when you take a look at our engagements and background, we’re over 90% referral. [00:06:01] Vince Menzione: Wow. [00:06:02] Rebecca Jones: And so people take us with them and um, what I look at is have we actually moved the needle or driven the customer outcomes? And when you think about the customers that we’ve worked with and the companies in this industry. It’s quite a roster and I don’t take that lightly because if you’re going to help support these companies and help them grow, it’s a testament to how we were able to accomplish that. [00:06:27] Rebecca Jones: Because all these companies have complex enterprise organizations. Their go to market is nuanced and how they want to, and then, um, get and grow. And so these are just a couple of the different ways that we’ve been able to be successful. [00:06:42] Vince Menzione: Fantastic. You know, you’ve done workshops at our events and talked to our community about how to help them achieve their greatest results. [00:06:50] Vince Menzione: What would you say to them? Now we’re living in this time? I, I I, I said this earlier, I don’t want to use the term tectonic shifts, but I’m running out of words to describe how tumultuous this time feels right now to me. [00:07:03] Rebecca Jones: It’s interesting you say that. I was thinking about that. ’cause both you and I have been in the industry for a bit. [00:07:08] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. And, um, there’s some pattern recognition happening right now for me and how I look at the go to market and these, these points in time and the evolution and. This point in time, it is a tectonic shift. But a lot of companies have other, have had to go through these challenges before. If you think about, um, the migration to the cloud and [00:07:33] Vince Menzione: yes, [00:07:33] Rebecca Jones: all of the unlocks that it has, and at the end of the day it’s, it’s shifting and thinking about new business models and it’s shifting and thinking about go to market, but there is. [00:07:43] Rebecca Jones: There are things that ring true no matter where you are. And one of the things I’ve always taken a look at is, do you know your underlying value and relevance in market? And are you being customer centric? That never goes outta style, right? Do [00:07:58] Vince Menzione: you know your value and are you customer centric? That makes a lot of sense, right? [00:08:02] Vince Menzione: Yeah. And do they, what do you do? And, and do they, how do what, how do they answer to that question? [00:08:07] Rebecca Jones: Well, that’s a, that’s a thinking question. Yes. Right? Yes. It takes a minute to think about that. Um, where is your moment of relevance with a customer? [00:08:16] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:08:17] Rebecca Jones: Where is your moment of relevance with a customer? [00:08:19] Rebecca Jones: And when you think about your reason to exist as a business, you have a really defined ICP, an ideal customer profile, and where’s your moment of relevance and. Yes. There’s a lot happening right now, and I think also because of where we sit in the industry and being in the midst of all of these giants with incredible technology to bring to market. [00:08:44] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. We’re, we’re in the front end of this wave or the, the, the tectonic shift that you’re talking about. It’s just, you know, it’s unsettling to a certain degree, but it’s really energetic and it’s. Dynamic and, and there’s so much opportunity out there. So [00:08:59] Vince Menzione: much so, you know, you had me thinking about the $600 billion that’ll be invested this year and just in cloud infrastructure and chips, right? [00:09:08] Vince Menzione: Yeah. So data centers and chips, and talk about that being like kind of creating this wave, this huge tsunami that’s coming for the beaches and, and everything seems to be. Every week there’s a new announcement, and recently it’s been philanthropic and clawed. And yes, uh, the markets are reacting. They’re, um. [00:09:30] Vince Menzione: They’re almost, uh, imploding in some ca in some cases because they’re trying to react the financial analysts, they’re trying to react to what’s happening right now. [00:09:38] Rebecca Jones: It, the investment is massive and it’s, it’s incredible and it’s massive. And over the last year, you saw a lot of experimentation. Yeah. And you saw a lot of dabbling, a lot of, you know, quite. [00:09:52] Rebecca Jones: Frankly, a little bit of concern about is this gonna pay off? [00:09:56] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:09:57] Rebecca Jones: And when you look at where we are in this chain cycle and this adoption cycle, we’re right at the front end, the early adopters. And so a lot of the work that we’re doing, and where I’m focused on is how do you move from experimentation? To truly having some movement over into MVP and scale. [00:10:18] Rebecca Jones: And so I’ll just harken back to Yeah, [00:10:19] Vince Menzione: please. [00:10:20] Rebecca Jones: That product mindset of when you’re looking at opportunity within the business, there was a lot of, um, there was a lot of pockets of experimentation just for fun. Just for fun. And so when you look across the business, um, and what, what we observed was, um, businesses of all different sizes, experimenting and, and some were just, they’re fun, they’re dabbling, right? [00:10:45] Rebecca Jones: But it, it changed in the second half of last year, people became much more thoughtful, much more purposeful, um, thinking forward about how would this be applied to my business? Yeah, because the question now isn’t. Could we do this? It’s really, should we do this [00:11:03] Vince Menzione: right? And and there was a period of time, I don’t mean to interrupt you, but there was a period of time when we were talking about earlier in in last year, we were talking about halluc hallucinations still. [00:11:13] Vince Menzione: Yes. So there was a lack of confidence on the platform side. Yes. Microsoft had brought out. Uh, it’s copilot solutions early to market. And there was some, uh, pushback from the community saying, we’re not seeing the results of that. Yeah. From the financial community specifically. And then I think what you said is then the second half of the year things started to change. [00:11:35] Vince Menzione: There was greater confidence. The [00:11:36] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, [00:11:37] Vince Menzione: I’d say the models got better. [00:11:38] Rebecca Jones: The models got better. But when you think about innovation, that’s inherent risk, [00:11:43] Vince Menzione: right? [00:11:43] Rebecca Jones: Right. Yes. When, when you’re on an innovation curve, yes, that’s risk. And so you have to look at as any great CFO will tell you diversification innovation. [00:11:56] Rebecca Jones: When you start to look at that market landscape, you’re creating risks. Yes. So they’re investing a lot and they wanna know when the payoff is coming back into the business. Right? Or back into the market. [00:12:08] Vince Menzione: So Rebecca, where is the AI market right now? [00:12:13] Rebecca Jones: Oh, that is a tough and great question, Vince. [00:12:18] Vince Menzione: I mean, we’ve gone through it and I’ll, I’ll kind of frame this for, yes, for, for everyone, at least from my perspective of what’s happened, right? [00:12:24] Vince Menzione: So, uh, September, 2022. Chat, GBT. Yeah. So we get into chat bots or chat bot, chat bot, chat bot, chat bot the first year or so, beginning of last year, 2025. A agentic AI really starts to take hold. It’s, it becomes a new term. In fact, I don’t think we were even using the term agentic AI before the end of 24, beginning of 25. [00:12:47] Vince Menzione: And then agents have really proliferated, um, all of the marketplaces now have agents and people are developing their own agents and so on. And all the tools, like all, all the cloud tools have agent capabilities. And now, um. We’re in 2026 and we’re still in the first quarter. It feels like the agents are starting to rule the world and maybe taking over the world [00:13:10] Rebecca Jones: they might be. [00:13:11] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:13:11] Rebecca Jones: right. There is definitely a proliferation of agents and I’m anticipating a lot of consolidation of that. ’cause most of the agents I’ve seen drop into, um. A lot of the areas where you and I can download are features. [00:13:26] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:13:26] Rebecca Jones: They’re really feature agents and those will get consolidated ’cause the where we are and you ask where we are in the market. [00:13:33] Rebecca Jones: What I love. I love where we are ’cause we’re starting to tackle real business problems. And what I’m observing and what we’re working on is really helping connect back into the business to really start that transformational work. [00:13:48] Vince Menzione: So take us through that. I’d love that. I’d love, give us a scenario or [00:13:51] Rebecca Jones: give us a use case. [00:13:52] Rebecca Jones: Do this. Yeah. I think’s really great scenarios here that I can walk you through. And first and foremost it is, and I’m gonna go back and I talked about specialization in specialty areas. Yes. That’s really important. Um, we talked yesterday during the conference around, um, industry. What industry are you in? [00:14:11] Rebecca Jones: You know, I’m in tech and that’s, that’s, we know that industry, we know those business models really well. That’s extremely important. And then you move within that. And what functions do you know and functions in this, you know, order are the product marketing function, how does that work? [00:14:30] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:14:30] Rebecca Jones: How does that work in an enterprise organization or a sales function or a. [00:14:36] Rebecca Jones: Partner function. And within that, what are all the workflows? How do these teams operate together? And so that’s where that curiosity comes in of not just how you did the work. How is the work orchestrated? [00:14:49] Vince Menzione: Inter orchestration is a huge topic area. [00:14:51] Rebecca Jones: Orchestration is a huge topic. Let’s, let’s go [00:14:53] Vince Menzione: there. [00:14:54] Rebecca Jones: E Exactly. [00:14:55] Rebecca Jones: And that’s where that curiosity, you know, I was talking about pattern recognition comes in how is the work designed? And that becomes. The blueprint for how you start to think about agentic workflows. And if you don’t have a great workflow, you don’t wanna replicate that in an agent, but Exactly. You definitely need to understand that. [00:15:18] Rebecca Jones: And so why don’t I take something that, um, I think will resonate for anyone listening to this podcast, because everyone is probably looking for growth this year and wanting to accelerate [00:15:28] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:15:29] Rebecca Jones: Sales. Their pre-sales funnel. So if we just take that pre-sales motion and specifically now with where partners might play in that or where, um, technology companies might want to enable their partners better. [00:15:47] Rebecca Jones: When I start to break down a pre-sales function, you have areas within that. Whole workflow that your marketing department might be driving. They might be driving top of the funnel or or demand programs. And then as you move down the funnel, let’s call it mid funnel, that really has opportunities for partner and field sellers to come in and. [00:16:07] Rebecca Jones: You might be seen or observing that your, um, pipeline velocity is not where you want that, right? Mm-hmm. You might be, you know, as they say, stuck. Stuck. [00:16:18] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:16:19] Rebecca Jones: And so when you start to look at what agents could do within that, I’ll use a real use case, um, around pre-sales workshops. You and I are both familiar with that. [00:16:28] Vince Menzione: We, we are, we were just talking about this last night, in fact, at dinner, about pre pre-sales workshops and how this is still such a vital component, how organizations work together. [00:16:37] Rebecca Jones: Such a vital component, um, for multiple reasons, right? You get to engage directly with the customer. You get to spend time with that customer. [00:16:46] Rebecca Jones: You get to ensure you understand what are their most pressing use cases and really help them design and buy into a solution far before you get to a proposal. And quite frankly, if you do this right. You also have an adoption plan, and then think about it from other functional areas in the organization. [00:17:02] Rebecca Jones: You start to pattern match across those presale workshops. You can start to see the use cases that are most valuable in market and start to put that into your messaging. So you think about presale workshop, it’s just not the activity of having a workshop, but if you could build an agent. To really help design around partners, enabling partners to deliver better presale workshops. [00:17:27] Rebecca Jones: Interesting. And how are you ingesting information that goes into the workshop? How are you helping, um, develop materials and first drafts faster for proposals post? How are you. Data is informing this. What are you collecting and what are you providing, and then what are you delivering? If you take that one simple component in a pre-sales process, you can see where I’m going. [00:17:53] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. All of a sudden, an ecosystem starts to show up around how could you connect better back with product marketing? What are they doing? What could you inform them with, with the data that you’re bringing in? [00:18:03] Vince Menzione: Interesting. [00:18:03] Rebecca Jones: And then what are the. Deterministic pathways outside of that, that you could be informing downstream down to first, first stress faster on proposals. [00:18:13] Rebecca Jones: Are you helping those partners with an adoption plan? The service partners in there. And so that is the designer and the architect of understanding how that workflow comes to life. And then you can really start to think about the outcomes that you wanna drive. And that’s where I love to start the conversations. [00:18:31] Rebecca Jones: That shouldn’t be an afterthought. That should be where you start. [00:18:35] Vince Menzione: So how do you, how do you, how do you start with this? You gave me a great example, but how do you apply this in the business? Like what do you take when you meet with a client to talk about pre-sales workshops as an example? [00:18:47] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:18:47] Vince Menzione: You take a proforma of what a pre-sales workshop would look like. [00:18:51] Vince Menzione: I’m, I’m, I. I might be wrong on this, but you have, like, you, you now have, uh, AI or AI that they go out and pull the data that you would normally ask maybe in some, some, uh, process, uh, information flow process that we grab and, and pull this into the, to the, to the form. The [00:19:10] Rebecca Jones: first question I always ask is, why. [00:19:12] Rebecca Jones: Why is this so important and valuable? I might have an assumption why, based on my experience, but I want the facts, right? I wanna know how they’re measuring it today, so we have a baseline and I wanna understand what their goals are. [00:19:28] Vince Menzione: Okay? [00:19:29] Rebecca Jones: Are they looking to increase revenue? X percentage. Uh, how many deals are they anticipating? [00:19:38] Rebecca Jones: How many presale workshops do they typically deliver through partner a year? Are they looking to scale that? Probably, yes. Are they looking to increase the value that they’re getting into contract post presale workshop? Probably yes. But I want that empirical data. And then I also wanna know where are they storing that? [00:19:57] Rebecca Jones: Where are they sourcing that? And so it, it really. The question and the question set really is understanding the business outcomes and the why. I, I ask a lot of why, and it really helps you frame in what would be the best outcome or the best solution, and then where do you start? Because there’s a lot of appetite for a. [00:20:21] Rebecca Jones: A transformational workflow from A to Z. And that’s a hard place to, [00:20:26] Vince Menzione: it’s hard show momentum. It’s hard. It’s hard, [00:20:27] Rebecca Jones: right? [00:20:27] Vince Menzione: It’s, it’s hard to document your current workflow flows. [00:20:30] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:20:30] Vince Menzione: Let alone come back and do this ally. [00:20:33] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:20:34] Vince Menzione: And create the best outcomes. [00:20:36] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:20:36] Vince Menzione: So I go back to this and I go, well, what, what creates the best outcomes? [00:20:39] Vince Menzione: Where the customer signs at the dotted line, and then how do you work back from that to the pre-sales workshop? Is that how [00:20:46] Rebecca Jones: you do it? A hundred percent. It’s a hundred percent. And then where do you start? How do you show, um, progress, not perfection. And so in this world, there’s a lot of, um, pressure. To show progress, outcomes, momentum. [00:21:00] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. And these very significant investments that are being made. And so how do you get them to quick wins? And so you know this, for any new executive coming into role, what are your quick wins? Yes. Right? Yes. You need to transform an organization, you need to transform a function. How do you set them up for success? [00:21:19] Rebecca Jones: And that’s always in my mind, that’s always in the mind of. The bridge partners, leaders of how do you set this leader up for success? And it’s that point between strategy and execution. How do you help them show quick wins? And so I broke you down that process. Yep. Of how would you think about in that use case, how to bring that back and help them show quick wins? [00:21:42] Rebecca Jones: Not in six months or a year, but in six weeks to eight weeks. How do you, how do you get them on that journey and then help them build to that next slide. And [00:21:51] Vince Menzione: in fact, that’s how you, you, you’ve made your, your name or your fame in the industry is really coming in and helping some of these executives, especially when they’re newer in role. [00:22:00] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:22:00] Vince Menzione: And those of us who’ve been around the Microsoft ecosystem know this well. Like you get asked day one, what’s your plan? The, while the fire, while the fire hose is blowing in your face at a hundred, a hundred miles an hour? Uh, what’s your plan? [00:22:14] Rebecca Jones: What’s your plan? What’s your [00:22:14] Vince Menzione: plan? [00:22:15] Rebecca Jones: What is your plan? [00:22:16] Vince Menzione: Yeah, yeah. [00:22:16] Vince Menzione: And then you have to show some measurable results fairly quickly. [00:22:19] Rebecca Jones: You have to [00:22:20] Vince Menzione: because you’re asked to get up in front of everyone. Yeah. Very soon. [00:22:23] Rebecca Jones: And that’s a blueprint that we have. We have, it’s a quick win. And when you think about all of these organizations that we’ve worked with, um, speed to market is a value signal. [00:22:36] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:22:36] Rebecca Jones: Right? And that speed and quality. Where are you willing to take the risk? Where are you willing to fail fast? And what outcomes are non-negotiable and what are, and so when you look at that, there’s, there’s conversations that need to be had on. And being able to filter out the noise to get down to what’s really gonna move the needle, um, for our clients and for the executives that we work with. [00:23:06] Rebecca Jones: So they can show momentum and progress quickly. And then we talked a lot about it. We don’t do three year plans, right? We’re gonna help you show progress in months, [00:23:16] Vince Menzione: nice. [00:23:17] Rebecca Jones: And in quarters, right? It’s not, um, 10 years. [00:23:19] Vince Menzione: Can anybody even have a three year plan anymore? [00:23:22] Rebecca Jones: Who’s got one? [00:23:23] Vince Menzione: I’d love to spend some time on co-selling with you. [00:23:25] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Just because I know this was a topic that came up one of our workshops in the Yeah. We hosted, yes. Last year we hosted a session. With another partner. Bridge Partners. [00:23:34] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:23:35] Vince Menzione: And you talked about the power of three and I know you’ve published some information about the power of three. I thought maybe we’d talk about that. [00:23:41] Vince Menzione: ’cause I think that is fascinating and it seems very relevant even in yesterday’s conversation. Uh, there was a conversation about another partner, uh, that is looking to build an ecosystem that hasn’t really thought about building out an ecosystem before, as an example. And this, this, I think is some of the work that you do really applies against this. [00:24:01] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. This, I mean, it, it’s a hot topic, right? Yeah. Power of three, which fits under the umbrella of co-sell Yes. And co-selling. And everyone has a slightly different definition, so I’ll define where we play. Good in there. Um, and then I’ll talk to you about the power of three, um, because that’s one of. Um, I’ll call it the scenarios under co-selling. [00:24:23] Rebecca Jones: Yes. And it’s a very popular one. It [00:24:24] Vince Menzione: is pop Well, it is for v various reasons too because, and I’ll just set the context for this. We were used to co-selling being a technology organization and a and a hyperscaler, like a Microsoft. [00:24:37] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:24:37] Vince Menzione: Going to do something together and driving direct output or sales. Now we have finally seen where marketplaces, which has become the co-sell engine, have now enabled the channel. [00:24:49] Vince Menzione: Um, the reseller enabled, uh, offers now to now, uh, operate on behalf of, and so at least in that case, that’s three right there. Now, there might be more than just three. We talk about the seven seats of the table, but the power of three is palpable right now. [00:25:04] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. Let me tell you about that concept of the power of three. [00:25:07] Rebecca Jones: ’cause when you think about the classic one [00:25:10] Vince Menzione: yeah, [00:25:10] Rebecca Jones: it’s a hyperscaler. [00:25:11] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:25:12] Rebecca Jones: A GSI. And then an ISB. [00:25:15] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:25:15] Rebecca Jones: Right? [00:25:16] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:25:16] Rebecca Jones: I mean that’s the, that’s the power, the powerful power, the three three, [00:25:19] Vince Menzione: the three giants in the [00:25:20] Rebecca Jones: room. The three giants. Yeah. And that’s rarefied air. [00:25:24] Vince Menzione: It is [00:25:25] Rebecca Jones: very [00:25:26] Vince Menzione: verified air. It’s, [00:25:26] Rebecca Jones: yeah. Right. And, uh, we do, we have a published article on that, um, and running a power three with SAP, uh, and it is, um, it changes the dynamics. [00:25:41] Rebecca Jones: Of how companies are gonna scale and grow in this market, right? [00:25:46] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:25:46] Rebecca Jones: Because we know, um, that what got you to this point? Is likely not gonna get you to that next stage of growth. And all the conversations around the platform play is the partner ecosystem, right? And I look at the opportunity, not just with the power through, I’m gonna talk to you a little bit more about that story and what we’re doing there and how we’re looking at that. [00:26:12] Rebecca Jones: Um, but it is the ultimate. Design for your go to market. Yeah. When you think about how partners and the various types of partners can help you scale, but you need to know what you need. You absolutely need to know, [00:26:29] Vince Menzione: yeah. [00:26:30] Rebecca Jones: What are you trying to achieve in your go to market and what’s missing? [00:26:34] Vince Menzione: What are the gaps? [00:26:34] Vince Menzione: Gaps? [00:26:35] Rebecca Jones: What are the gaps? Are the gaps before you apply? Yes. The power of three, or I’ll talk to you about a couple other use cases within that. So the power of three. Has long been on everybody’s, you know, can, can we get this done right? Can you pattern match the customer set? I’ll often refer to it as a BM on steroids, account-based marketing and on steroids. [00:26:59] Rebecca Jones: Can you pattern match, um, the, the hyperscaler, let’s just use Microsoft in this scenario, the, the. High potential customers of Microsoft Joint with SAP joint, with A GSI. And the more specialized and specific you get in there, it’s not just any, because think about the size of these, you know, companies. Yeah, right. [00:27:24] Rebecca Jones: Then you start to look at, well, let’s get a little bit more specific on these product sets, these industries, these use cases. And then you start to refine that where you can start to identify your greatest opportunity for growth. So that’s the first stage of that. And it is, you know, we, we think about where is that overlap and where is that opportunity, but how do you activate that? [00:27:51] Vince Menzione: And it’s complex because, uh, as you, as you mentioned those three. Organizations, each of them have different go to markets. [00:27:59] Rebecca Jones: They do, [00:27:59] Vince Menzione: they have different, a different mapping of their geographies and their ideal customer profiles. [00:28:05] Rebecca Jones: Mm-hmm. [00:28:06] Vince Menzione: Um, and they, yeah, and they apply different tactics and selling tactics and channel tactics and so on that you have to layer in or you have to take into account when you build this. [00:28:15] Vince Menzione: And SAP’s a very different go-to market motion than a Microsoft, than a, than a, an EY or any name the GSI percent. Yeah. [00:28:23] Rebecca Jones: And so that is why not only is it, um, complex from a. Sharing and figuring out what data you’re going to share. Yeah. But how do you activate it? How [00:28:35] Vince Menzione: do you activate it? [00:28:36] Rebecca Jones: And uh, and that is what all companies are striving to do. [00:28:41] Rebecca Jones: Who are you gonna go to market with? Yeah. What is your best play in the industry? And so I, you know, while this one. There’s very few companies that are gonna be able to activate directly with the hyperscaler, right? Yes. Uh, Microsoft AWS or Google. Um, but there are ways in which you can apply this strategy no matter the size of your organization. [00:29:05] Rebecca Jones: And so when you think about. The power of three. It could be any combination. You are the designer, you are the decider of who is in your power of three. And when you start to kind of unpack that a little bit, it could be Microsoft, SAPN one ISV, or it could be a combination of complementary I ISVs that unlock a play. [00:29:28] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. [00:29:29] Rebecca Jones: Like migration to the cloud. [00:29:31] Vince Menzione: Right. [00:29:31] Rebecca Jones: Like it, it could be [00:29:33] Vince Menzione: backup and recovery. I could rattle off the different types of solutions. Yeah. [00:29:37] Rebecca Jones: What is, where are you seeing the greatest opportunity to scale and what ISVs could come in to help you do that? So when you extract that from the power of three, the classic power of three of Costone, you brought that down to, you know, how do you think about that in the masses of marketplace? [00:29:56] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. Or partners of any size. I like to bring this back to. Where do you believe your greatest opportunity is? Do you have, um, opportunity or weakness in your portfolio, your product set? Could a partner come in and help augment that? Do you have a tech platform and you need a services arm to help extend that? [00:30:19] Rebecca Jones: I I mean the, it it, the world’s your oyster. Yeah. You get to kit this together any way you need and then. The power of bringing these companies together. And you and I both know, and that was much of the conversation yesterday, is, um, the greater goodness of companies coming together Yes. To compliment one another to solve a customer problem. [00:30:39] Vince Menzione: How do you take it from concept to execution? Because to me, that’s. Especially when you’re talking about not just one organization like a micro, you’re working with a Microsoft or an SAP, but you’re layering in three types of organizations and you’re going across different sales motions. How do you get them all? [00:30:58] Vince Menzione: How do you get them all aligned in working together the right way? [00:31:02] Rebecca Jones: Magic. Magic. [00:31:03] Vince Menzione: Okay. [00:31:04] Rebecca Jones: I’m kidding. [00:31:04] Vince Menzione: Call bridge, call Rebecca [00:31:07] Rebecca Jones: Magic. [00:31:07] Vince Menzione: Nine nine nine five five five five. [00:31:09] Rebecca Jones: Let, let, let me, uh, let me talk about that because [00:31:13] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:31:13] Rebecca Jones: it’s one, there’s the good work, there’s the good thought work and the strategy of how to ensure you’re, you’re pointing and you’ve got the team lined up, right? [00:31:22] Rebecca Jones: Right. And the players lined up. But activation of that. Oh, [00:31:28] Vince Menzione: massive work. [00:31:29] Rebecca Jones: It’s massive work. Yeah. And it’s not a set it and forget it. [00:31:33] Vince Menzione: Right, [00:31:34] Rebecca Jones: right, [00:31:34] Vince Menzione: right. [00:31:35] Rebecca Jones: And when you think about the alignment, and you talked about we, we’ve got different fiscal year ends and we’ve got different sales and center plans. I will talk about a few things. [00:31:45] Rebecca Jones: One, executive sponsorship, top down. [00:31:48] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:31:48] Rebecca Jones: Right. Um, ensuring, you know, compensation. You gotta get rid of the blockers and the barriers. [00:31:55] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:31:56] Rebecca Jones: And you have to make it easy and you have to create that space because it’s really, and I’ll talk to you about some of the platforms and technology behind it, but it’s humans working together. [00:32:07] Rebecca Jones: There’s a lot of power in what we’re able to do now with, um, part tech platforms and with agentic solutions. And how do you automate this and how do you bring more power and visibility? Better than ever and, and more than ever. But at the end of the day, we’re activating teams. Across companies. Yep. To work together to bring this together. [00:32:34] Rebecca Jones: And there are playbooks, um, and any, there’s great playbooks out there, but you need to activate that. [00:32:41] Vince Menzione: You need to activate it. And you, you said you gotta get the executive commitment at the top? [00:32:45] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:32:46] Vince Menzione: Not just at the CEO level, but across the leadership team. That’s right. In every silo. Uh, you’ve gotta get, uh, the organization, you have to get compensation taken care of because those, those can be blockers, those could be real blockers from getting the results you want to get. [00:33:00] Vince Menzione: And then you gotta get activation. [00:33:03] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:33:03] Vince Menzione: Right? [00:33:04] Rebecca Jones: You gotta get activation and you have to be really clear on how you’re gonna activate what’s gonna move the needle. And you have to be ready to test, learn, optimize, and you need to put those into sprints. So I’ll give some examples around that. [00:33:20] Vince Menzione: Please do take us through the sprints. [00:33:21] Vince Menzione: ’cause this is, this is getting beyond the theory now. This is what I really wanted to capture with you. Take us through it. [00:33:28] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:33:28] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:33:29] Rebecca Jones: So let’s just say we’ve got, we’ve got a power of three. [00:33:32] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:33:32] Rebecca Jones: You know, um, ready to roll and, and we’ve picked our industry and we have our use case. Um, between the three of us, the three players, you’re gonna start by allowing someone, and in this case it’s been Bridge Partners to really ensure we have a joint value prop, um, proposition for that end customer. [00:33:54] Rebecca Jones: Mm-hmm. And, you know, you gotta take a little ego out of the room. Typically on the power of three, you’ve got the leading companies coming in. But at the end of the day, if you’ve done this right, it’s, it’s customer first. It’s what’s gonna help solve this customer pain point in that language. And then when you think about activation, it’s who’s, who’s in role first? [00:34:20] Rebecca Jones: Right. And who’s taking point in these customer conversations. Right. Okay. And that is really, really, that’s important. Important. That is important. Who has the relationship? Yeah. Who is going to take lead and who’s gonna follow? And it gets all the way down to whose paper. Is this on? And that’s, that’s sometimes hard. [00:34:41] Rebecca Jones: You’ve got three players in the room, but it’s incredibly important to have those conversations and ensure that this is really end state for the customer. Yeah. So really going through roles and responsibilities and how are we gonna architect this for the customer’s success. Yeah. So that is a critical component of the playbook and then understanding. [00:35:02] Rebecca Jones: Where and what programs are we gonna drive, and then who’s taking what actions. And so I, I mentioned a BM on steroids a little before. Yes. There’s amazing things that you can be doing in market, [00:35:14] Vince Menzione: account-based marketing, [00:35:15] Rebecca Jones: m account-based based marketing, you dunno. Um, account-based marketing and there are some amazing things. [00:35:20] Rebecca Jones: Really truly connected sales and marketing, in this case. Connected sales, marketing and partner. Yeah. And how do you activate these partners together? [00:35:27] Vince Menzione: You used the term part tech, which. Not everyone understands partner technologies. Yes. Organizations like Partner Tap, work Span. Yeah. Tackle. [00:35:37] Rebecca Jones: Structured. Yeah. [00:35:38] Vince Menzione: Structured. If you, these are companies that help with co-selling methodologies, marketplace methodologies. [00:35:44] Rebecca Jones: Yes. [00:35:45] Vince Menzione: Or combining all of those, [00:35:46] Rebecca Jones: if you know, uh, J McBain, uh. Beautiful visual flat map of, um, it looks a little, the 28 moments. Yes. I was just, well, the 28 moments and he’s got the part tech landscape. [00:35:59] Vince Menzione: Oh, [00:35:59] Rebecca Jones: the islands. The islands. [00:36:00] Vince Menzione: Yes. The islands. [00:36:00] Rebecca Jones: Yes, we got it. But there are part tech solutions that support [00:36:03] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:36:03] Rebecca Jones: Partner programs, co-sell programs, partner marketing, you know. Yes. And really help to automate a lot of those processes. [00:36:11] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:36:12] Rebecca Jones: Um, and a lot of those programs. [00:36:13] Vince Menzione: So Rebecca is such a great conversation today. [00:36:16] Vince Menzione: I mean, we can go. Thank you so deep on this. [00:36:18] Rebecca Jones: I know. [00:36:18] Vince Menzione: Which means that we’re all gonna have to be back together in Redmond. You live in the Seattle area? I do. And you’ll be with us. Um, we’ll be hosting the Ultimate Partner, live in, uh, may, May 11th to the 13th. If you’re marking your calendar as listeners and friends, uh, and you’ll be there and. [00:36:36] Vince Menzione: Probably driving some more of this conversation in a workshop format, I hope. [00:36:41] Rebecca Jones: I hope so too. Yeah, it was really rewarding last year. I mean, there’s nothing more powerful to be in the room with partners because the partners are frontline to customers. [00:36:51] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:36:51] Rebecca Jones: And understanding what they’re seeing and hearing. [00:36:53] Rebecca Jones: And I always think voice of the customer is your ultimate signal. Yeah. So I can’t wait to be there. [00:36:58] Vince Menzione: Very cool. And I have a favorite question I ask all of my guests now. Uh, it is a favorite of mine. You are hosting a dinner party and you can choose where in the world you wanna host this dinner party, and you can invite only three guests, though from the present or the past to this amazing dinner party. [00:37:18] Vince Menzione: Whom would you invite Rebecca and why? And why? [00:37:22] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. Yeah. I’d, um, this is such a great question. I think on every single day I’d have a different collection of folks that I’d want at my home. Uh, I’ve had dinner at some amazing places for me. I would love to host this at my home. [00:37:38] Vince Menzione: Very cool, very [00:37:39] Rebecca Jones: cool. Uh, and the people that I would want there for this particular dinner party, I’m gonna pick, um, three iconic women. [00:37:51] Rebecca Jones: Coco Chanel, [00:37:52] Vince Menzione: Coco Chanel very cool [00:37:54] Rebecca Jones: designer. [00:37:55] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:37:56] Rebecca Jones: Um, really changed how women thought about an identity and wardrobe. Um, I would invite Georgia O’Keefe. Wow. She’s my favorite artist. [00:38:07] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:38:08] Rebecca Jones: Um, she is one of my favorite artists. Uh, I’m, uh, art and history background. And, uh, [00:38:16] Vince Menzione: that explains, [00:38:17] Rebecca Jones: that, explains that, um, a really interesting perspective. [00:38:22] Rebecca Jones: I love her view on landscapes and. She, [00:38:26] Vince Menzione: that’s why I know her as, you know, landscapes [00:38:28] Rebecca Jones: a landscape artist, um, and much more behind that. And then I would bring one of my favorite authors in, who’s Tony Morrison? [00:38:36] Vince Menzione: Tony [00:38:37] Rebecca Jones: Morrison. [00:38:38] Vince Menzione: I don’t know Tony Morrison. [00:38:39] Rebecca Jones: Oh, um, I would, beloved is her book and Oh, yes. When you think about. [00:38:45] Rebecca Jones: Um, and this is really my passion, my background in art and literature and design, and to have three, three women there, that voice of Tony Morrison, you’ve put that book on your list. Okay. It, it, it changed my life. Uh, and, um, Coco Chanel and, um, Giorgio O’Keefe, I think it would be a really interesting conversation. [00:39:07] Rebecca Jones: I love very cool trailblazers, women who really helped. I don’t know how much they recognize how much they really changed the narrative for other women, um, in their fields and together. But I think it’d be a really fun evening. [00:39:23] Vince Menzione: Very different. Very different. Uh, I was, I know a little bit about Cocoa Chanel ’cause my mom was always in the beauty and fashion industry. [00:39:31] Vince Menzione: So as a kid growing up, I mean her shoe was iconic. [00:39:34] Rebecca Jones: Yeah. [00:39:34] Vince Menzione: Iconic. Chanels an iconic brand was iconic. And, and she was a, wasn’t she a survivor of the. Of, uh, Nazi Germany maybe or something. There’s some, there’s some background or there’s [00:39:44] Rebecca Jones: some background. Flee. Flee [00:39:45] Vince Menzione: Nazi Germany [00:39:46] Rebecca Jones: or something. And what she’s really known for is, um, well many things, but yes, as a designer, really changing the tone and temperature Yes. [00:39:56] Rebecca Jones: Of um. How, you know, fashion and female identity. I think she, um, created the, what everybody knows is the little black dress and really got all that more structured and more modern look and feel of how to, how to wear and just really created a powerful path. [00:40:14] Vince Menzione: Very cool. Yeah. Very cool. [00:40:15] Rebecca Jones: So that’s who I’d have it, this one. [00:40:16] Vince Menzione: That will be a funer. [00:40:17] Rebecca Jones: Next time I’m on your podcast, I’d have a whole new crew. [00:40:21] Vince Menzione: Okay. Well I might. Bring dessert. If you don’t mind, I might bring a little, maybe a little chocolates I think maybe might be very appropriate would for this group and just maybe pop in for a few minutes. [00:40:29] Rebecca Jones: That would be great. [00:40:30] Vince Menzione: Because I don’t wanna inter interrupt the flow my, because this is be a great conversation. Oh my, [00:40:33] no, [00:40:33] Rebecca Jones: you would, I think you’d have a ball. [00:40:34] Vince Menzione: Okay. I, [00:40:35] Rebecca Jones: I mean, I know how close you were to your mother. [00:40:37] Vince Menzione: I am. [00:40:37] Rebecca Jones: And so, yeah. [00:40:39] Vince Menzione: So, um, this isn’t, again, I use this tumultuous term, but we are living in interesting times right now. [00:40:47] Rebecca Jones: We are. [00:40:47] Vince Menzione: And for all of our viewers and listeners. What is your advice to them? What is the one thing you would say? We’re in the first quarter of 2026. Yeah. This ball is moving fast or this puck is moving fast. Yeah. If you were a hockey player, um, what would you say to us now? What, what, what is the one thing you would go do if you’re not doing it now that you should be doing? [00:41:11] Rebecca Jones: Take a moment. Take a moment. As leaders. Your company and your organizations are looking for clarity. They’re looking for a path forward, and there’s a lot of energy out there, which is very exciting, but it can be also very distracting. [00:41:30] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:41:31] Rebecca Jones: So hold some confidence and clarity for your organization and figure out where you need to be and where you’re going. [00:41:39] Rebecca Jones: That’ll help set your strategy, and this will all come into view. And so what I look to is how do we help enable the organization to grow? And by doing that, you ha you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself. Yeah. Take a moment. [00:41:53] Vince Menzione: Pause. [00:41:55] Rebecca Jones: Pause. Reflect, reflect. I told you I walked down to the beach this morning. [00:41:59] Rebecca Jones: It’s a great moment. Take a moment for yourself. It’s not passing you by. We’re just getting started. [00:42:06] Vince Menzione: Did you hear that? My friends and listeners? Take a moment. And so great to have you here in the room. Yeah. [00:42:13] Rebecca Jones: Thank you so [00:42:14] Vince Menzione: much. Thank you. And I want to thank our listeners, our viewers, for following along, ultimate Guide to Partnering and our YouTube channel Ultimate Partner. [00:42:23] Vince Menzione: And please, please, please come join us. We have an incredible year ahead. This was our event, number one of five. And Ultimate partner Live will be in Bellevue on the 11th through the 13th of May. [00:42:36] Rebecca Jones: Yeah, I’ll [00:42:36] Vince Menzione: see. You’ll see you there. Rebecca will be there. It’s [00:42:38] Rebecca Jones: in my backyard. [00:42:39] Vince Menzione: It’s in your backyard. And we are gonna have incredible leaders in the room. [00:42:42] Vince Menzione: So thank you for watching. Thank you for listening to The Ultimate Guide to Partnering. [00:42:47] Rebecca Jones: Don’t forget, ultimate Partner Live is coming [00:42:50] Vince Menzione: soon, May 11th through the 13th in beautiful Bellevue, Washington. I hope to see you there.s I, as I wrap up here, I just wanna make sure that what, where

Description Stop experimenting with AI and start driving ROI. Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this keynote from the Ultimate Partners Winter Retreat, Nina Harding breaks down the massive shift happening in the AI landscape as customers move away from experimental pilots and demand concrete ROI and business outcomes. She emphasizes that the era of selling products and time-and-materials approaches is over, replaced by outcome-based, verticalized selling where vendors and partners share accountability. Through real-world examples in healthcare and retail, Harding outlines how partners can leverage Copilot Studio, Agent 365, and Microsoft’s incentive programs to build specific superpowers, differentiate themselves, and ultimately lead the AI mission alongside Microsoft. Key Takeaways Customers are no longer interested in AI experimentation and now expect immediate, concrete return on investment. Selling products is dead; the modern approach requires a consultative, signal-based strategy focused entirely on business outcomes. The traditional time-and-materials billing model is disappearing as clients demand shared accountability for project success. Rapid proliferation of AI agents has made security and governance top priorities for enterprise customers. Success in the Microsoft ecosystem now requires partners to highly verticalize their value propositions by industry. Defining and clearly articulating your unique “superpower” or niche is essential to stand out to the Microsoft field sales organization. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJJ4Zcf4tZc&t=1920s If you’re ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Nina Harding, Microsoft AI, artificial intelligence ROI, AI agents, Agent 365, Copilot Studio, outcome-based selling, verticalization, healthcare AI, retail AI, Cognizant, Davos 2026, AI governance, AI security, technology transformation, Ultimate Partner Live, enterprise AI adoption, digital transformation, system integrators, AI pilots Transcript [00:00:00] Nina Harding: More importantly, we want to serve more and more people faster, and AI is coming in and having a very practical approach in healthcare alone. [00:00:14] Vince Menzione: We just finished Ultimate Partners Winter Retreat here in beautiful Boca to a sold out [00:00:19] Vince Menzione: crowd. Come join me now for a compelling discussion on the impacts of the tectonic shifts we’re all seeing. [00:00:27] Vince Menzione: I feel incredibly fortunate, uh, to have this, this, this friend Nina who came into the studio here for the first time, actually earlier, well last year, geez, earlier this year. [00:00:38] Vince Menzione: It was last year, right after my accident I think. And, uh, we gotta spend some time together. And she was so good to, uh, make her time available and her team’s time available to come down here to be with us today. Ne I’m so thrilled to have you. I am going to turn over the stage to you. Uh, you’ve got some incredible learnings. [00:00:57] Vince Menzione: I know you’ve been on the AI tour with Microsoft. Yeah. And you’ve got some great learnings you’re gonna share about what’s happening. Absolutely. So it’s so great to have you. [00:01:05] Vince Menzione: It’s nice to see you. [00:01:06] Nina Harding: Nice to see you. [00:01:07] Nina Harding: Thank you. Well, thanks everyone. It’s great to see so many familiar faces and then some new faces as well. [00:01:15] Nina Harding: Um, because we’re in a little bit more of an intimate environment, I thought I would approach this a little bit differently. Give you some better insights into what we’re actually hearing at Microsoft with our customers, some of the things that are actually moving the needle that we’re seeing some of our partners do. [00:01:34] Nina Harding: So really to share some of the best practices out there, and hopefully you’ll leave with some more insight or tips and tricks, um, is really what I would love to do because our job. Collectively is really this transformation and to take a advantage of it out there in the market right now. [00:01:57] Nina Harding: Let’s see [00:01:57] Nina Harding: here. [00:01:59] Nina Harding: I can move slides. Well, this one isn’t moving. Any slides? [00:02:07] Nina Harding: No. Okay, great. So, um, some of you might. Uh, know that I’m a Floridian now, right? So I just live right up, up the way in Palm Beach. Um, so not too far, but I still wouldn’t miss this opportunity to be with all of you. Um, there is an energy that I think that we’re all feeling right now, and, uh, it’s, it’s palpable. [00:02:32] Nina Harding: We’re finding right now that our customers are really going from this landscape of experimenting with ai. Really to looking at the outcomes and having expectations around the momentum that they’re seeing. Right. That’s a big shift, right? We, and things are going pretty quickly, so I look at things almost quarterly now on what is that core message and what are, what is the difference in the tone from our customers of what they’re expecting? [00:03:06] Nina Harding: What we’re gonna talk a little bit about today is how all of you, our partners, are such a critical part of that journey. Actually, sometimes the most important part. You’re on the front lines with the customers. You’re the ones having those conversations. You’re the ones that are in there arm to arm with their teams, listening to what they’re experiencing, their challenges that they’re facing, and they’re really wanting now to go from this world of, Hey, we have lots of different pilots. [00:03:41] Nina Harding: Right? A lot of us know that right into, oh my gosh, it’s not about pilots anymore. They really want that ROI story. They want those outcomes and it’s looking very different for all of us. The way that we sell, the way that we go into our engagements, the way that we even price things, the way that we, meaning Microsoft partner and customer are locking arms is fundamentally very different. [00:04:15] Nina Harding: We have to go in collectively. We have to also be responsible for the outcomes and deliver on those. ROI is that headline that we’re all after. Right. It is the most important part of the puzzle right now because there isn’t a single boardroom that isn’t talking about AI and you guys are all experiencing it. [00:04:39] Nina Harding: It’s easier than ever to go in and have the conversation. The hardest part is how do we quickly get to an ROI study, so you or ROI case so that we can continue to build on that. And when you’re looking at this every. Customer is providing signals out there to help you grow that penetration into the account. [00:05:04] Nina Harding: And I’m gonna share some of the signals that I think that are really meaningful. But that’s the most important thing is we’re no longer, and I know you guys all know this, we’re no longer selling product at all anymore. We’re selling those outcomes. And I can tell you at Microsoft, we’re spending a tremendous amount of time retraining all of our sales reps. [00:05:25] Nina Harding: Really to be focused on how do you listen and do that consultative signal based sale. How do you actually go in and start selling, not selling, but I mean it is selling, but listening to the journey that they want to go through. What are the challenges that they’re facing and what’s the transformation that we’re able to kind of go and be a part of together with our partners? [00:05:54] Nina Harding: Notice it’s not about product. Product is just the tools in your tool chest to create those outcomes. So that’s gonna be really important as we go through this journey. [00:06:09] Nina Harding: Uh, so I saw the, the title of the session, uh, mentioned Davos and Davos was an interesting time. Uh, Microsoft has a very, actually, a very big presence at Davos and, uh, we had over 300 customer meetings there, uh, where we were meeting with some of the top companies around the globe. And it was very much affirmed that. [00:06:34] Nina Harding: Uh, the, the concept of AI we’re past, like curiosity stage, right? We’re way past that and we’re even past that. The art of the possible discussion, right? Uh, what the, the customers are almost at the point is, is come in and tell me, tell me what to do. Show me how to do it. It’s a very different position than, Hey, we’re presenting you with all these different possibilities. [00:07:08] Nina Harding: They’re They’re tired. They’re tired of all the possibilities. They wanna get to the brass tacks of how are you gonna change my customer service department? How are you gonna make it easier for my hr? How am I going to derive growth? What are some of the other things that you guys are experiencing out there? [00:07:23] Nina Harding: Like what are some of those other ROI drivers that people are asking, where am I gonna find the money? What for? For doing the project or out of the project? Other people? I Okay. To do the project. Okay. Resourcing. Okay. So what we’re seeing here is that, uh, the conversation is very much now focused on, okay, I need sec, I need security. [00:07:50] Nina Harding: That has been louder than ever before. So, Vince, the one thing I would say about that slide where you had those five different pillars, I’d put security on the bottom. Understanding your data, your data platform on the bottom, those are consistent across all those pillars. And then you can kind of hit at them. [00:08:10] Nina Harding: But, uh, there’s a lot of energy, there’s a lot of excitement, but it’s rooted in what are you materially going to do to change my business, and is your skin in the game to help me do it and I’ll pay you for that outcome? The concept of this time and materials approach gone. Gone. Even at Microsoft, we’re adjusting to the fact that the customers aren’t like, oh. [00:08:35] Nina Harding: Just hand it over to a system integrator and they’ll deliver on it. They’re like, oh no, we want you accountable too. You’re accountable for the outcomes as well, which is, oh gosh, okay. How do we do that in a partnery model that makes sense where we’re not tripping over each other, but we’re going in stronger together. [00:08:54] Nina Harding: We have one message together and we’re really focused on driving that. They’re also really concerned around the governance of all these agents, right? I see a lot of heads shaking on this. I mean, there’s a lot of proliferation right now. There’s a lot of excitement. I mean, I don’t know in your companies, but people are building agents faster and quicker, uh, than ever before, and some of them are really, really cool and they’re making huge point savings of times. [00:09:22] Nina Harding: Everything from. You know, some of you guys have probably heard me talk about everything from, uh, working on performance reviews to what are all of the incentives that we have for partners and making that easy to understand to, uh, to helping me understand patterns in our financials and what partners are really performing and growing. [00:09:45] Nina Harding: All of these agents are just popping up everywhere, but that creates a real governance issue and a real security issue for a lot of companies as well. So you take all of this and you hear this momentum and I think, uh, that together we’re really well poised. I think Microsoft is in a unique position together with you. [00:10:07] Nina Harding: On this frame, we have Agent 365, which helps you manage all these different agents, right? So that’s an exciting. How many of you’re familiar with agents? 365. Great. And I promise I’m not a product person. I’m not gonna do a lot of pitches, so don’t worry about that, um, at all. But, uh, we also have copilot studio and foundry, and so we have this whole, uh, set of capability, but that capability only comes to life if we’re able to connect with the customer, build the outcome, and making sure that the CEOs see all of us as their partners on that strategy and journey. [00:10:47] Nina Harding: So what does that look like? So I talked a little bit about signals, and signals, is that ability to listen to the, to the customers, what’s really, really me, uh, meaningful and frontier firms are doing this on a consistent basis all the time. Listening to the specific needs use cases, et cetera. So we at Microsoft have been trying to not only share all these different use cases that we have exposure to, but in addition. [00:11:17] Nina Harding: We turned on functionality, and I’ll talk about that in a little bit so that we can also share amongst each other as a community and understand those use cases. Uh, what’s really important is that, um, we’re moving from this world of all these like little one-off projects to a strategy and a platform that everyone wants to move to, but it’s all also getting powered by agents. [00:11:42] Nina Harding: That’s, that’s where we are today. So. [00:11:49] Nina Harding: Having a little trouble. I’m not gonna go through this too. Everyone’s familiar with this in, in here, the Frontier overview. If you’re not, let me know. Um, but basically one of the things that we find is really helpful is, is just sharing where we have seen proof behind having the conversation around the AI journey. [00:12:12] Nina Harding: Around the, the customer journey as you’re going out there. Um, there are really four different areas that we’ve talked about, and I’m not going to drain this ’cause there’s lots and you can, you can, uh, go onto the internet. You can see me talking about all these different areas. I don’t wanna spend too much time here, but these are four of the different. [00:12:33] Nina Harding: I would say categories where when you’re looking at different ways that you can make a material difference with the, the, the customer that we find the most momentum. So around enriching employee experiences, changing the way we, uh, engage with customers. Uh, changing processes as well. And then, uh, the outcomes, like really transforming the way we go about business. [00:12:59] Nina Harding: And we wanna do something about bringing it in to the flow of the work, everyday work. How many of you are finding that you’re actually using agents in your day-to-day workflow? Isn’t that cool? And then as you continue to use it, it becomes easier and easier and easier. And. I know from my team, I’m starting to look at what is the e everyday usage versus the monthly usage, right? [00:13:26] Nina Harding: It’s the every day. It’s become almost, uh, your second hand. And what’s important, uh, on this is that we’re giving, uh, listening to all these signals giving, um, the consistency, um, of the, the engagement with. With the clients, we’re able to all share the same stories and be able to scale at a much faster pace. [00:13:54] Nina Harding: So what does that look like? Here we go. Um, one of the things that we talk about at Microsoft, and the reason why I have this up here is that we’ve moved the conversation away from product into these customer outcomes, which really becomes about. Industry discussion. You have to speak their voice. You have to understand their business problems. [00:14:21] Nina Harding: You have to listen for what is materially different. So I’m actually sharing this, which you don’t normally see in a lot of presentations out to Microsoft about the structure of the organization, the takeaway. This is a sales organization in enterprise. The takeaway that I want you to have from that is look at the verticalization. [00:14:43] Nina Harding: We’ve done. It’s no longer by territory. The ball has moved, the conversation has moved entirely. So what does that say to all of you as well? Your value proposition as you’re working with our field has to be verticalized. The way you engage has to be verticalized. What you say, um, what the, the outcomes that you think differentiates yourself. [00:15:12] Nina Harding: Verticalized. So there isn’t the approach of like doing this like mask gorilla campaign across, for example, the Americas. And I’m just using this as an example on, um, the small and medium business side as well. Um, the, they’re a little bit more territory based still, but um, at least at the enterprise, everything has to be about customer value. [00:15:38] Nina Harding: Customer value. So, um, what this also suggests to me is the way we’re working and where we’ve seen a lot of success is when all of you are starting to tailor your messages and differentiate yourselves by customer success stories. Use cases where you’ve had premise, uh, penetration as a software partner, but you have to tie it back to the industry again. [00:16:05] Nina Harding: It’s just different. And so if I’m very transparent that that’s become, has gone from a nice to have to critical as the field is looking at, who are those go-to partners? It’s the go-to partners that speak retail. It’s the go-to partners that speak oil and gas and I don’t know, I, I, I see some nodding of heads. [00:16:27] Nina Harding: Some people know this, some people don’t. But I can see the shift tremendously over the last six months. So, um, hopefully that’s helpful in, in, in kind of sharing just how we’re walking the walk and talking the talk. So as I go back to industry, um, I thought what would be helpful is to take a few examples so you have a chance to see. [00:16:52] Nina Harding: In life, what are, what are we actually seeing at Microsoft? And if you guys are seeing something else, I would love to hear that too. But these, this is an example in healthcare and when we’re looking at, uh, a particular industry, we’re looking at what are some of the pain points? What are the top trends? [00:17:11] Nina Harding: What are some of the challenges folks are, are facing? And then what are the use cases that are really making traction here? This is a different way of taking that frontier vision and doing that click down by industry. And so what we’re also doing is we’re looking at who are partners that can help us in healthcare that can help answer some of these key challenges. [00:17:35] Nina Harding: Who are the ones that have the ability to have those material conversations in that trust? In healthcare, for example, there’s a ton of pressure. I mean. We all are consumers of healthcare. Hopefully we, all of us, have been lucky enough to have healthcare, um, in the, in this, uh, forum, but there’s a lot of clinician burnout, rising costs, right? [00:18:01] Nina Harding: The, the expense for, uh, medicines and so forth. But more importantly, we want to serve more and more people faster, and AI is coming in and having a very practical approach. Healthcare alone. So many of you, I talk about, um, the fact that at one point I was paralyzed, right? So I was paralyzed from T two down and, um, I go in every six months for an MRI, uh, to check, to check if everything’s still functioning. [00:18:32] Nina Harding: And the nervous system is going well. My doctor has had to manually look at that. Now he’s using AI to look at. History and the progression since 2008. That’s game changing. And on top of that, he is looking at me and having a conversation and looking in my eyes and observing me instead and using Dragon to have it feel epic to really think about how that’s changed my personal experience with the healthcare system and changed how a physician can show up. [00:19:09] Nina Harding: So there are many, many, um, many use cases around like patient access and, uh, innovation that we’re trying to do, surgeries, uh, being able to do clinical, clinical trials, but AI is everywhere and that’s what’s really important is that we’re figuring out for all of you what your software solution. Services offering, or even if you’re selling that, you have that value, value proposition down at that level. [00:19:43] Nina Harding: So let’s take a look at retail, for example. We have a short little video. Are we gonna be able to run that video? This is where we’re seeing a lot of shrinking. Margins, people wanting more, uh, intimacy with their customer. Here we go. [00:21:09] Nina Harding: Are we good? Well, that was a quite, uh, quite a nice, uh, uh, digital response to the end of the video. But what you’re seeing is people are using it in all different facets as we go into an example. I always love to do, use examples of partners that are hitting the mark ’cause we can all learn from ’em and myself included. [00:21:30] Nina Harding: We’re partners that are really successful. I chose to use Cognizant. Cognizant was actually our partner Si of the year, um, at the Americas level. And one of the things, and I won’t drain it on, um, the right hand side of this, uh, the slide, but they really are helping the customer’s move in a framework approach by industry, uh, to an AI landscape. [00:21:58] Nina Harding: Uh, they, they have secured an end-to-end solution and they’re focused on real business outcomes, and they have been growing at over 30% year over year. Huge. That’s great. Right? That’s what we all want for our businesses. And so what you’re seeing here is. They have a narrative around the frontier firms and they pull that through when they’re engaged in the clients and with our field. [00:22:27] Nina Harding: And then they’re using the incentives that we have. And don’t worry, I have a slide on some of the incentives we have, um, to actually make sure that they’re using those effectively in the pre-sales motion, but most importantly on the adoption and the change management after they’ve actually, uh, built out the solutions. [00:22:45] Nina Harding: And that’s really, really, really key here. So here’s an example of, um, of Cognizant at Coldwater Creek and Soft Surroundings. They had two different platforms and they brought it all together and then they brought Dynamics in as well. And what they have actually been able to do is improve a lot of the inventory management, the visualization, um, of all the inventory around. [00:23:14] Nina Harding: Around all of their stores and their warehouses, and they’ve been able to streamline the fulfillment and improved, uh, reduced back orders. What you’re seeing is those are all concrete examples of the outcomes that they were trying to drive for at the beginning, and those were all. Key pain points. And so they go in, cognizant will go in and understand with what are the material things that you are, that’s keeping you up at night, that is creating that drainage, uh, in your accounts or if you could transform, what does that look like? [00:23:52] Nina Harding: And so there, they spend the whole conversation together with Microsoft focused on doing that. And then we do the outcome based proposal. Very different, right? It creates for a much stronger vendor relationship, and the customer feels like they really have in the essence of the word partners, helping them to be successful. [00:24:15] Nina Harding: Right. [00:24:20] Nina Harding: Here we go. So I promised you some of the incentives, and I know you might just take a, a quick peek at some of these. These are, these are, um, some of the incentives that. Microsoft has put forward to help our partners on this journey. Uh, this is a slide that we’ve created from the America’s perspective to try and simplify it. [00:24:42] Nina Harding: Now there’s a lot behind it, right? But to try and help simplify, um, where are the incentives available? And I think this is one of the first times you’re actually saying what’s available for the sis. Versus for the software partners. And then we’re gonna hear more today about what’s also available for the channel partners as well. [00:25:03] Nina Harding: Um, it’s really thinking about what is your behavior as a partner? How are you showing up? How are, uh, you making a contribution to that customer? And then how can Microsoft best support you in that journey? So there’s all sorts of, uh, all sorts of incentives here, and it’s really, uh, designed to be flexible to what you need. [00:25:24] Nina Harding: But for the, I, I think it’s very focused on the value proposition as well that you bring to the table. So, um, I encourage you to take a look at this, make sure that you have this in your diary or your flipping of, of how are we maximizing, um, deals. And we can certainly go through a lot more of this. And we have webinars and so forth that will take you through all of that. [00:25:52] Nina Harding: Alright, so. I’ve talked a lot about this outcome-based selling, and that’s, it’s literally how Microsoft is starting to move forward on how do we go about engaging with the customers and with our partners. You’re gonna see, because our customers are asking more Microsoft involved and for us to go jointly into the opportunities. [00:26:16] Nina Harding: Not that we necessarily, we’re not building out a larger consulting force or anything like that, but. We want to make sure that the customer ask that Microsoft is engaged in working with our partners, is honored, um, and that we’re, we’re part of that, and that we’re also sharing our, our experiences and learning from all of you at the same time on who has the best, uh, approach, Beth best, best methodologies and best practices to light up our customers together. [00:26:51] Nina Harding: But the ROI doesn’t really show up just in dollars alone. We all know this, right? Um, it could be in, uh. Satisfaction it could be in care. So as you’re starting to look at this new evolution of how we’re really landing the value proposition of ai, we have to think outside of the box that it’s not just monetary and it’s not, I think you said savings or securing funds and so forth, but it’s really of how do I leapfrog into the modern world? [00:27:22] Nina Harding: How do I change that entire experience and think outside of the box? And, uh, make sure that the conversation is not just about how do we optimize certain practices, but how do we have this more executive level strategy conversation on the future of how we’re gonna engage with our clients, uh, their clients in a much more, um, I think transformative and personal [00:27:51] Nina Harding: way as we go forward. [00:27:54] Nina Harding: So we know that if the outcomes are the, what we’re looking to go drive, the next question is really how do we go do that? And that is gonna be through the agents on here. You’ll see just from from out in the market, what we see will light up the market. We think that, or I can’t even say we, IIDC says 81% of leaders are expecting agents. [00:28:24] Nina Harding: Full utilization in the next 12 to 18 months. And to be honest, I think this quote is probably even two months old. So we’re already, we’re probably down to like, you know, eight, eight to 12 months. And what I’m seeing that proliferation happening, it’s crazy. So understanding that value proposition, um, whether you’re from a software company or a services company or even some of our resellers, what’s that niche? [00:28:52] Nina Harding: What’s that industry or sub-industry? What is that? Horizontal. I go after customer service within, uh, the manufacturing vertical. Right. And then are you building out agents or do you have capability? And that’s what we’re doing internally at Microsoft as well, is to help make that really visible to the field so that you’re differentiated. [00:29:15] Nina Harding: Differentiation is gonna be really key right now because there’s so many people that say, oh, I do migration services, or I can help with data, or I can do security. But it’s the specificity around the industry and what you are truly known for within that space. So one of the things that we look to do is, is looking at all of the different areas where we see agents popping up. [00:29:44] Nina Harding: And this is a helpful slide. Sometimes I think, um, it starts to highlight, um, where we’re seeing some traction in financial services. Or in healthcare manufacturing. And then when I talk about the horizontals or the personas, you start to see some of the um, really repeatable, high return on investment type of things. [00:30:08] Nina Harding: Is this resonating with some of you guys? Yeah. I’m seeing a hit, a lot of head nods. This, if you’re on the services side, right? We’re in an intimate setting. This is where I encourage you to try and build an agent, right? Package that agent, put it on marketplace, make that available, and then make that known to our field sales organization. [00:30:27] Nina Harding: ’cause they are looking for quick wins along those lines. [00:30:31] Nina Harding: So on that, um, [00:30:36] Nina Harding: uh, one of the things that we’re along the journey for is the skilling. This is moving at such a fast pace, right? Um, so you’re looking at. Um, anthropic is really a big topic right now, right? Gemini, you’re looking at cloud, you’re, um, or Claude. [00:30:55] Nina Harding: Um, you’re looking at all of these different, uh, scenarios and one of the things at Microsoft is we really wanna be open to all of these different technologies because our customers are open. So we want to be part of taking you on that journey. And one of the things that we invest in white. [00:31:12] Nina Harding: Significantly is all of the training. Um, and I wanna encourage you guys to take advantage of it. Training is not a one-time thing. It is, it is a constant muscle that you must exercise. So as I come to my conclusion, I have a couple three key things, right? One is really understanding what your superpower is, right? [00:31:33] Nina Harding: The partners that I’m finding are really aligned well with the field are really winning. Those stories are the ones that have. Know and can articulate their superpowers. What am I known for? What are the use cases I can either build to or have agents against? And where have I done this consistently? And packaged really, really concretely, right? [00:31:55] Nina Harding: Um, this, this proliferate of like, I can do everything. Unfortunately, you get lost a little bit in the noise, right? So clear positioning, proof point’s, so critical right now, and reinforcing that credibility with the clients that have adopted. The second thing is that you’ve heard a little bit about this hopefully. [00:32:16] Nina Harding: How many of you have heard of the part partner success story? Okay, this is really, really key. We launched about maybe a month ago, and we already have over a hundred, uh, stories from partners, and the field is loving it. What it is is it brands the stories with your brand if you submit them. So what? Talk about credibility, um, with the field and with our marketers to have your name and that recognition picked up. [00:32:45] Nina Harding: It’s really, really fantastic. So I encourage you to do that. For those of you taking quick snaps, I did put a code on here, so if you wanna go straight to it, uh, you can take it. Um, and go explore with it. What’s nice about it is it’s AI based, so it will help you write these stories very, very quickly. [00:33:04] Nina Harding: There’s no reason why your sales reps can’t be writing these stories, and then yes, [00:33:11] Nina Harding: uh, yeah, you can do no meaning like from enterprise. No. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You can do it on any, on any, there is a different level of fidelity of if you have the customer’s permission. Right. Um, to pu to publish it or not. And that’s some functionality we’re working on. If there’s enough traction of, of this is to help you guys. [00:33:32] Nina Harding: Secure that with Microsoft. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it can be any customer there. But I encourage you to take a look at that. And I know I’m two minutes over here, so I’m just gonna leave you with this. Um, at the end of the day, as I, as I wrap up here, I just wanna make sure that what, where we’re going and we’re going together, that it’s simple and actionable between us and it’s easy for our field to understand. [00:34:00] Nina Harding: Where you play the value proposition you play so that we’re going into deals even more effectively together. Right? So you heard industry, sub-industry, persona level or horizontal. Put that in if, um. Figuring out what your superpower is, making sure that you’re trained, that there’s evidence around the success, and capturing that in ways, uh, that are critical to not only your business, but giving us the visibility of that success. [00:34:31] Nina Harding: Like scream from the rack rafters. Use these tools to make sure that we know just how transformational you’ve been in some of the customers and where you’re uniquely winning. So, so important. So keep investing in the skilling. You can see my kind of like five power plays, right? And the last one always being that superpowers. [00:34:56] Nina Harding: So with that, um, if we do all of these things consistently, you won’t just be keeping up with ai. I think we will all be leading on that AI mission. So thank you very much. I appreciate it. [00:35:14] Vince Menzione: Don’t forget, ultimate Partner Live is coming soon, May 11th through the 13th in beautiful Bellevue, Washington. I hope to see you there.

Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ The Shift from Attention to Trust In this compelling episode, Ashleigh Vogstad, CEO of Transcends, joins Vince Menzione to discuss the tectonic shifts occurring in the global partner ecosystem. Ashleigh shares her firsthand experiences studying AI at Oxford, the rise of the “Trust Economy,” and the controversial Amazon vs. Perplexity lawsuit. They dive deep into the practicalities of becoming a “Frontier Firm,” the importance of building proprietary AI agents, and the ways Gen Z and AI-driven marketplaces are revolutionizing the buyer journey. Whether you are looking to win Microsoft Partner of the Year or navigate the demise of traditional SaaS, this conversation provides a strategic roadmap for leading through the AI revolution. Key Takeaways The economy is shifting from a focus on human attention to a foundation of verified trust. Future commerce will involve “selling to machines” as AI agents begin making purchasing decisions on behalf of humans. Microsoft is prioritizing “Frontier Firms” that integrate AI into every customer interaction and internal process. Gen Z buyers are prioritizing product value and “dupes” over traditional brand names, with 75% of buyers expected to be Gen Z by 2030. To win Partner of the Year, organizations must publicly celebrate “better together” stories with validated customer wins. Modern leaders should transition from a “growth mindset” to a “frontier mindset” to keep pace with rapid technological change. https://youtu.be/xJmd43NvfnI If you’re ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Trust Economy, Selling to Machines, Amazon vs Perplexity Lawsuit, Frontier Firm, AI Agents, Copilot Studio, Anthropic Claude, Microsoft Partner of the Year, B2B Marketplaces, Gen Z Buyer Behavior, Digital Freedom, AI Therapy, Ray Kurzweil Singularity, Substack Growth, Co-selling Partnerships, MCI Funding, Azure Accelerate, Agentic AI, Transcending Tech, Ashleigh Vogstad. Transcript Asleigh Vogstad Audio Podcast [00:00:00] Ashleigh Vogstad: The attention economy is about selling to human beings. Now, if you look at something like the Amazon versus Perplexity lawsuit, the whole underlying premise is around the shift of no longer selling to humans directly, but of selling to machines. [00:00:19] Vince Menzione: We just finished Ultimate Partners Winter Retreat here in beautiful Boca to a sold out crowd. Today I’m joined by Ashley Waad. The CEO of transcends for this compelling discussion. Ash, welcome back to the podcasts. [00:00:34] Ashleigh Vogstad: It’s so good to be here, Vince. Thank you. Uh, [00:00:37] Vince Menzione: so well, we’re back in Boca again and we were just here yesterday for the Ultimate Partner Executive Winter Retreat in person. [00:00:44] Vince Menzione: What a great event we had together. [00:00:46] Ashleigh Vogstad: It was phenomenal. Thank you so much for having us there and on stage and, and genuinely the community is like a family, so seeing so many familiar faces and spending some quality time was just great. [00:00:57] Vince Menzione: It has really, truly become like family. It really, I’m, I’m, I’m having so much fun with this and getting to watch. [00:01:04] Vince Menzione: Not just our business grow and our community grow, but to see all of our friends and, uh, organizations like Transcends that have been with us since the beginning, since the very first ultimate partner acting even before the first ultimate partner. And, uh. We were just talking about. I’d love to catch up with what you’ve been doing. [00:01:22] Vince Menzione: Like you just came, you’ve been on a whirlwind. I mean, you’re always, every time like it’s, where’s Ash? She’s, uh, she’s on a plane again, or she’s on, she’s on the slopes. But tell us where you were just this week. [00:01:34] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. The week started in a snowstorm, actually transporting myself from Whistler. I didn’t know if I would make it to the airport, but then down to Silicon Valley and [00:01:45] Vince Menzione: Nice. [00:01:46] Ashleigh Vogstad: Wow, that place is just inspiring and eyeopening. I mean, seeing the Nvidia campus, a MD, it’s really just other worldly and it had me reflecting on, it’s [00:02:00] Vince Menzione: not Whistler. Yeah, it’s [00:02:02] Ashleigh Vogstad: definitely not Whistler. Definitely not Whistler [00:02:05] Vince Menzione: about, [00:02:06] Ashleigh Vogstad: um, yeah, it just had me reflecting on being down there. I used to spend a lot of time in the Valley around 2017 and. [00:02:13] Ashleigh Vogstad: In this theme of AI and kind of what’s really coming, I was, I was thinking about, I had met this woman, Julia Moss Bridge, who’s a neuroscientist studying ai. She had a project called Loving Ai, and I was down there when they had borrowed Sophia, this humanoid robot from S and Robotics. [00:02:32] Vince Menzione: Oh yes. Yes. [00:02:33] Ashleigh Vogstad: Really interesting. [00:02:34] Ashleigh Vogstad: Sophia’s actually a citizen of Saudi. Mm-hmm. First, first robot to actually be made citizen of a country. So they had Sophia set up and the part that was just mind boggling at the time was that Sophia was hosting in real life therapy sessions with actual human beings sitting across the table. And what really struck me as. [00:02:59] Ashleigh Vogstad: Kind of just, you know, that was only eight, nine years ago. And that was esoteric. Wacky and [00:03:05] Vince Menzione: eerie. [00:03:05] Ashleigh Vogstad: Weird. [00:03:05] Vince Menzione: Eerie at the time. [00:03:06] Ashleigh Vogstad: Incredibly eerie. Yeah. I mean, a, a human getting, uh, you know, therapy sessions from a robot sitting across the table. Yeah. And it just had me thinking how far we’ve come today. In 2025, Harvard Business Review said that therapy is actually the number one use case for ai. [00:03:26] Vince Menzione: I’ve heard that. That is striking. I go back to COVID. We were having this conversation last night at at the dinner for the Ultimate Partner event, and I think that COVID allowed us to transcend, [00:03:42] Ashleigh Vogstad: mm-hmm. [00:03:42] Vince Menzione: No pun intended there, but actually accelerate where we are today, that the acceptance of AI and the acceleration, or the ability to accept change so quickly. [00:03:56] Vince Menzione: Started with COVID because we were so, so we were forced on whatever it was, March 10th I think, here in the United States to shut down everything and move to this remote life. [00:04:08] Ashleigh Vogstad: Mm-hmm. [00:04:09] Vince Menzione: And I think we’ve been shocked by that. I think our systems have all been shocked by that. And then here comes chat GBT in November of 2022 and we’re like. [00:04:20] Vince Menzione: Shocked in some respects, but like really everyone has embraced it in such a strong way, and now we’re getting. It’s almost daily update. You know, we’re gonna talk, I know we’re gonna talk about Anthropic and some of the things that’s been happening just in this last month that are striking and changing that have a lot of organizations trying to navigate, which is what, you know, you, you help organizations do. [00:04:43] Vince Menzione: But it feels like this is happening so fast and will continue to happen so fast. And as I said yesterday, I don’t know what this world’s gonna look like by 2030. [00:04:53] Ashleigh Vogstad: You know, and I think the thing is, is that nobody knows what the world is gonna look like in 2030. I’ve been reading Ray Kurz Well’s, the Singularity is nearer, so the original book, the Singularity is near and he’s known to be a very accurate predictionist on the future. [00:05:11] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. But even with someone like that, you know, there, there nobody really knows what the world is gonna look like. And when you talk about COVID. At transcends, we have a value of digital freedom. So I founded the business in 2018, which was pre COVID. I as a fully remote organization, and at the time that was, you know, more groundbreaking, but then very quickly with CI that, that became the so-called new normal. [00:05:37] Ashleigh Vogstad: But we’re always thinking about. You know, remote first doesn’t mean remote only, and I think in this tide of what you’ve talked about, technological change being more acceptable and the pace of change. One of the interesting things that we see as a go-to-market agency is that in-person events are increasing. [00:05:56] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:05:57] Ashleigh Vogstad: People want and crave the face-to-face. Just like with the ultimate partner series. [00:06:02] Vince Menzione: I felt it. So it was striking yesterday. It, it seems like it’s, again, this was event number nine for us, but to see the, um, uh, receptiveness isn’t the right term, but it was this, uh, people, the, the embracing. Of seeing each other and hugging each other and being in the same room with each other. [00:06:22] Vince Menzione: And even people that didn’t know each other, like by the, the, as the day evolved, this, uh, connection that they all seemed to have with one another during the sessions and participating, everyone actively participated in the sessions. And, um, I said this in the beginning, we’re not a Slack channel and we’re not like some post on LinkedIn. [00:06:43] Vince Menzione: Uh, we’re there, there’s no playbook that’s set today around partnerships or even go to markets and marketing that we could espouse and say, this is the playbook for the next year. Right. It’s, it’s changing so rapidly. [00:06:55] Ashleigh Vogstad: So rapidly, [00:06:57] Vince Menzione: and you’ve embraced it. And I, and what we’re gonna talk about right now, I mean, I, I, you know, you’ve embraced AI in such a strong way. [00:07:04] Vince Menzione: Um, personally and with your business, I want to, I wanna dive in here a little bit. First of all, a couple things For those of those who are listening who don’t know you, I think maybe just a moment about transcends and your role, and then I wanna dive in on how you’re thinking about ai because I know you’re doing some things personally. [00:07:22] Vince Menzione: I want you to share that with, with our listeners and viewers today. [00:07:25] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah, great. And I just wanna comment that it was a cool moment yesterday being up on stage with yourself and Mark Monday from ServiceNow and having the audience so engaged and active and Nina Harding from Microsoft stepping up and entering the conversation. [00:07:40] Vince Menzione: So cool. [00:07:41] Ashleigh Vogstad: It just made for such a collaborative experience, which was a cool moment, but yeah. Um, so. I founded this business, transcends a go-to-market agency after being at Microsoft myself. And really our differentiation is deep strategic partnerships with hyperscalers, whether that’s AWS, Google, Microsoft, and you know, that. [00:08:03] Ashleigh Vogstad: It comes with a challenge to be on the leading edge of technology. [00:08:08] Vince Menzione: Yes, [00:08:09] Ashleigh Vogstad: it, it’s really an imperative for our business and we are an AI first firm. Microsoft talks a lot about Frontier Firm, and I’ll take a, a different kind of angle on it. You know, when I think about Frontier. I now think about it as instead of the growth mindset, I now think about a frontier mindset. [00:08:28] Vince Menzione: Frontier mindset. You have to change my principles. [00:08:32] Ashleigh Vogstad: You know, maybe, like you said, the world is changing so rapidly. Yeah, it’s [00:08:36] Vince Menzione: changing rapidly. [00:08:36] Ashleigh Vogstad: And what a frontier mindset means is that as we’re approaching work for our clients, we are thinking about AI innovation in every single customer. Interaction, customer innovation. [00:08:49] Ashleigh Vogstad: So today we’re building AI agents into much of the work that we’re delivering for clients. And as a business owner and leader, I’ve been challenged to also think critically around how I’m choosing to run the company. And right now we’re going through a huge overhaul of where we have data sitting in silos and different applications. [00:09:09] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yep. And getting that into one place with one view so we can start layering on more insight. AI innovation. [00:09:17] Vince Menzione: Yeah. And data’s such an critical part, part of this, as we, we talked about yesterday. But you know, even the, what you said, which is, would, would’ve been striking a year ago to say, we’re an AI first, uh, agency isn’t as striking anymore. [00:09:32] Vince Menzione: Uh, we heard Nina when we were having this conversation on stage yesterday, say that it’s an imperative at Microsoft that the agencies that they choose to work with, the third party vendors that they work with have to be an AI first organization. I have to be a frontier firm, and so I’m a, I am sensitive to the word frontier firm. [00:09:53] Vince Menzione: I understand why Microsoft uses it and I understand the value of what we used to call, you know, customer zero or back in the day we used to say eating your own dog food, but essentially being an organization that has leaned in, in a way, and with ai. Even more so, so important to do it. So tell us, I know you’ve done some things personally as well, but tell, tell us what you’ve done with the organization. [00:10:18] Vince Menzione: Uh, you talked about data and making data available and having, having a true data state as opposed to silos of data, but then you also made some personal investments and sacrifices. I would say. [00:10:30] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. [00:10:30] Vince Menzione: Yeah. In terms of what you’re doing around ai, [00:10:32] Ashleigh Vogstad: so I mean, let’s start on the personal side. I’m the CEO of my organization, and you can read in books or news articles that it is critical for AI transformation to start at the C-suite and specifically in the CEO seat. [00:10:46] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:10:46] Ashleigh Vogstad: And that really. Landed for me and so I’m personally leading in About two weeks ago, I built an agent, just end-to-end on my own, got into copilot studio. Wow. Got comfortable with the interface. You know, I was clunky moving around in there at first, chose my model. You know, I went with one of the anthropic Claude models for this particular project and built up an agent that can deliver executive communications like. [00:11:14] Ashleigh Vogstad: Thought leadership blogs, uh, LinkedIn posts, but in a particular human being’s voice by ingesting things like their social profiles, their SharePoint sites, where they live and work. And it has been so surprising doing an ab test between just what a chat GBT or a copilot could produce. [00:11:32] Yeah. [00:11:33] Ashleigh Vogstad: In comparison with the authenticity of the voice coming from the agent. [00:11:37] Ashleigh Vogstad: Uh, it was just a really cool experience to roll up the sleeves and get in there. But also I think the, the investment that you’re referring to is, I made a big decision to return to school and uh, got accepted to go to Oxford. [00:11:52] Vince Menzione: Wow. [00:11:52] Ashleigh Vogstad: And I’m studying artificial intelligence there. [00:11:54] Vince Menzione: That is incredible. That is incredible. [00:11:57] Vince Menzione: Oxford, uh, we’ve heard of that school before here in the United States. [00:12:03] Ashleigh Vogstad: You know, it’s been a really great experience. It’s in person, so I’m traveling there about every 60 to 90 days and living on campus. I mean, really, Oxford isn’t. Formally a campus, it’s sort of a, a city and a university all, all ruled into one and the experience has been really powerful. [00:12:21] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yes. One of the things I wanted to get outta the program was a more global perspective, and it’s been fascinating to me that about half the faculty so far, or or professors, guest lecturers that have been coming into the program have been from China or very direct experience working in the Chinese market. [00:12:38] Vince Menzione: That is fascinating. [00:12:39] Ashleigh Vogstad: It’s been a completely different view. Or for example, you know, really digging into some of the legal cases that are driving precedence for how AI is interacting with corporations. [00:12:51] Vince Menzione: Mm. [00:12:51] Ashleigh Vogstad: One of the big ones for me has been looking at Amazon versus p perplexity. This is still a live case that’s happening right now. [00:12:58] Ashleigh Vogstad: And you know, I think it was Forbes magazine that the headline was the End of Commerce for this case because it’s really about. How human beings are being replaced with machines and hearing some of the world’s leading thinkers, leading AI researchers on these topics has just been really expansive. [00:13:19] Vince Menzione: It’s fascinating. [00:13:20] Vince Menzione: I mean, it’s, this started a couple years ago with, uh, Hollywood, in fact. Suing the industry or suing the technology companies with regards to, uh, employment, right? Mm-hmm. About the, the, uh, copyright infringement and what’s gonna happen in the entertainment industry. And I think that was just a one very small example. [00:13:40] Ashleigh Vogstad: You know, voice people think about DeepFakes. Yeah. And they think about video, but actually voice is a big issue. And you look at the, um, you know, the what happened between Scarlett Johansson and her voice in her, and then open AI rolling out a voice that sounded identical. Sounds like her. [00:13:59] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:13:59] Ashleigh Vogstad: To Scarlett Johansen and, and where that went. [00:14:01] Ashleigh Vogstad: It’s, it, this is a new ground for, for everybody that we’re going through right now. [00:14:07] Vince Menzione: It is. We can dive and go in so many different directions, but let’s talk about marketing and advertising since that’s kind of. Transcends core, and a lot of the people that watch and listen to us are in the partnership world. [00:14:22] Vince Menzione: They’re leading organizations, they own organizations, the the chief executives or CVPs of organizations. Let’s talk about advertising and where that’s going. [00:14:32] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah, great. [00:14:33] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:14:33] Ashleigh Vogstad: I mean, uh, I love Marshall McCluen. He’s a Canadian theor, uh, media theorist, and in 1964, he very famously said, the medium is the message. [00:14:43] Ashleigh Vogstad: And what that really means when you peel back the layers is that every type of communication medium has these inherent biases. And I think what we’re experiencing right now is this new medium of artificial intelligence, and I’m really interested in exploring what that means for the media world. So. If I gonna take you back to 1997, there’s this really famous, the Innovator’s Dilemma. [00:15:10] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yes. Kind of a classic business 1 0 1 type book by Clayton Christensen. Yes. And he talks about this theory of disruption where new technologies, emerging technologies start at the low end of the market. They gain this momentum and they eventually displace incumbents. And you know, sometimes seemingly out of nowhere. [00:15:28] Vince Menzione: Yeah. And Microsoft was a good example of this at that time. [00:15:32] Ashleigh Vogstad: Def, [00:15:32] Vince Menzione: yeah. [00:15:33] Ashleigh Vogstad: All the big players. All the big players. I mean, Google go for search as well, right? So that’s one of the classic examples. And so. If we look at storytelling technology, you have things like chat, GBT and Sora entering the scene. And in the beginning, you know, they’re producing a shitty first draft. [00:15:51] Ashleigh Vogstad: Uh, you know, it’s things like post-apocalyptic dogs with five finger human beings. Yeah. Things like this. But, you know, and they really lacked emotional resonance. But as we all know. That’s not the case anymore. No, it’s [00:16:05] Vince Menzione: not. [00:16:06] Ashleigh Vogstad: AI is increasingly producing content that is very powerful and is starting to resonate with people. [00:16:13] Ashleigh Vogstad: You know, I’m definitely not a neuroscientist, but if we, we look into the neuroscience, it’s your cortical sal circuit that. Kind of is responsible for pattern recognition and it compares what you’re seeing in the real world with what you expect to see. So when you take this into a space of advertising, you know, if there’s an ad that is AI generated, that is just weird and kind of. [00:16:38] Ashleigh Vogstad: Tweaking for you. [00:16:39] Vince Menzione: Like that robot we were talking about earlier, [00:16:41] Ashleigh Vogstad: like the robot we were Exactly, yeah. Like Sophia, you enter what psychologists call the uncanny valley, so it’s like what you’re looking at isn’t exactly what you’re expecting to see and the Spidey sense is, is tweaking. You know, that’s a low place of emotional resonance. [00:16:58] Ashleigh Vogstad: This world is changing really, really quickly and we’re seeing AI generated media make huge impacts in the market Now, tools like Luma Dream Machine, I mean, it’s incredible what they can achieve today. [00:17:11] Vince Menzione: It’s fascinating. We see it in, you know, I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. That’s sort of the world of our business community, and you can very easily detect when someone is doing a post. [00:17:22] Vince Menzione: Or they’re writing an art, whatever they’re doing. Right. Some type of draft of something. Uh, and you can tell when it’s ai, I mean, it’s so easy to tell, and even people are generating reports and claiming that their research papers or studies or whatever they call them, uh, and it’s AI generated and it’s just the authenticity isn’t there. [00:17:39] Vince Menzione: The, the sense that this is real. That it can be trusted is not there. And I think trust is what we’re talking about here too, as well. [00:17:47] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. I mean, let’s go to authenticity ’cause that’s super important. Yeah. And I know a lot of your listeners, you come from the hyperscaler world of partnerships. You need to have that differentiated, better together story. [00:17:59] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. It’s really important to have an authentic voice in market. And I think about that also in terms of platforms and channels. We’re seeing a decrease in certain major social media platforms, and yet Substack spiked 48% in monthly active users last month. [00:18:15] Vince Menzione: That’s [00:18:16] fascinating. [00:18:16] Ashleigh Vogstad: Um, you know, and I think that one of the reasons is it’s viewed as a more authentic channel where you’re getting thought leadership from people that you’re, you know, genuinely interested in hearing their, their points of view. [00:18:28] Ashleigh Vogstad: And I think that’s really an important piece in here. [00:18:31] Vince Menzione: Yeah, you mentioned this yesterday and you had me thinking about it as well because we have used LinkedIn for everything internally, our newsletter, which has been around for six or seven years now. But that Substack is really, and I go to Substack too, to, if I really wanna dig in on a topic. [00:18:47] Ashleigh Vogstad: Mm. [00:18:47] Vince Menzione: And there’s a particular author that I like their point of view, I’ll follow, I’ll follow them on Substack. [00:18:53] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. I mean, and this comes, maybe brings us around to who is the buyer and who is the audience, and who do we need to be thinking about when we’re designing sales and marketing programs. And really we’re, we’re shifting into the place of the Gen Z buyer by 20 30, 70 5% of buyers are gonna be Gen Z. [00:19:12] Ashleigh Vogstad: They’re gonna control 12 trillion in. Spend [00:19:16] Vince Menzione: by 2030. ’cause we, we’ve been, we’ve been saying that the millennial is the new buyer the last three years. I think Jay said it right here at this stage. [00:19:23] Ashleigh Vogstad: Mm. [00:19:24] Vince Menzione: Um, so now it’s Gen Z. [00:19:27] Ashleigh Vogstad: And they’re buying online. Yeah, they’re buying in marketplaces. Yeah. So a stat recently was that roughly half of them made purchases on the social platforms of YouTube, Instagram, or TikTok in the last month. [00:19:39] Ashleigh Vogstad: I mean, that buyer behavior of being inside. Social type application and directly making a purchase. And I think in the B2B world, we need to take lessons from here and start thinking more front and center than we even have been around marketplaces. I mean, part of my reason for being in Silicon Valley this week was to celebrate a $12 million transaction that happened via Marketplace and two years ago that would’ve been a huge deal. [00:20:06] Ashleigh Vogstad: Huge, [00:20:07] Vince Menzione: huge. [00:20:07] Ashleigh Vogstad: And, and it still is a really big deal, but these things are becoming. More and more common experiences. Very much so. We need to be there and in that conversation. [00:20:16] Vince Menzione: So how are you thinking about it? How are you directing your clients to behave or act around it? What are you, what are you doing exactly that we could take to this community perhaps and share with them. [00:20:28] Ashleigh Vogstad: I’ll bring it back to the authenticity piece because you need to have a product that delivers value first and foremost. There is, there is no substitution for that. Yeah, and what I would say is. One of my professors at Oxford, Eric Zow, he has this theory that I’m really digging into and finding very fascinating, which is that for the last several decades we’ve been in the attention economy, and that’s shifting to the trust economy. [00:20:55] Ashleigh Vogstad: Now the attention economy is about selling to human beings. Yeah. It’s about the, the business model is essentially that you need human being eyeballs on lists of recommendation links. Yeah. Whether that’s from Google or from, you know, searching, shopping on Amazon, you get this list of recommendation links and the economic engine that drives that business model is advertising. [00:21:19] Ashleigh Vogstad: Now, if you look at something like the Amazon versus Perplexity lawsuit, the whole underlying premise is around the shift of no longer selling to humans directly, but of selling to machines, or in other words, agents who are making purchases, s on behalf on your behalf. And an agent isn’t going to be razzle dazzled by some inauthentic story. [00:21:44] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:21:44] Ashleigh Vogstad: They’re gonna be looking for third party validation on Exactly. You know, they need to be sure that they’re making the right decision. [00:21:51] Vince Menzione: They’re gonna look at surveys, they’re gonna look at customer comments. Like if I went through my Amazon site and I was looking to see what people said about the purchase or the product and specifically Exactly. [00:22:01] Vince Menzione: The agent’s gonna do this on my behalf, is what you’re saying. [00:22:04] Ashleigh Vogstad: This is what I’m saying. Yeah. And, and. I believe that to layer on top of, you know, Eric Z’s philosophy, I’ve been thinking about this in terms of the hyperscaler world, and I think that this is the time to lean into co-selling partnerships. [00:22:18] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah, because being third party validated by somebody like AWS Microsoft and having all that co-sell data, what are your recent wins? Yes, that’s really high integrity, trusted data source for an agent to make a purchasing decision, and marketplaces are a key part of that. [00:22:35] Vince Menzione: So we’ll move from AI will take a, a more active role in the marketplace. [00:22:40] Ashleigh Vogstad: I definitely believe so. [00:22:42] Vince Menzione: Which makes total sense. I, you know, we’ve been doing this for nine or 10 years now, and when I was at Microsoft, we started co-selling. In fact, it was, uh, Aaron Feiger was up on stage yesterday talking about it. Right? January of 2016, co-selling began. [00:22:55] Ashleigh Vogstad: Mm. [00:22:56] Vince Menzione: And there were only a few companies doing it. [00:22:59] Vince Menzione: Right. So she worked with one of the very first ones that were doing it. Uh, the challenge we have today is there are tens of thousands of partner organizations in the marketplace that are all trying to get the attention of the Microsoft sellers. Hmm. As, or the Google sellers or the AWS sellers and tell their story. [00:23:19] Vince Menzione: And a seller only has so many minutes in a day, they have a quota that they have to hit. These quotas are tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars of annual quota of cloud consumption. And I wanna sell my $50,000 widget, whatever it is. Yeah. Right. And I, I don’t understand why I’m not getting a callback. [00:23:38] Vince Menzione: And this, this is the dilemma we’ve faced because of, because of this, uh, scarcity of time and this over overwhelming of tech, you know. Tech, tech buyers trying to make this all happen, so now the AI can come in and help me solve for it as a seller, right? [00:23:55] Ashleigh Vogstad: The AI is definitely acting as an interface to make recommendations to field sellers in different organizations and. [00:24:04] Ashleigh Vogstad: To, to kind of take this on a, a tangent. Dupes. So a dupe. I know people of my generation, we’d think about this like a knockoff Right. You know, a knockoff handbag. [00:24:15] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:24:15] Ashleigh Vogstad: Dupes have exploded. [00:24:16] Vince Menzione: Fake. Fake Rolexes. [00:24:18] Ashleigh Vogstad: Exactly. The fake Rolex for sure. And I think it was in December, P WC rolled out a survey. 81% of Gen Z were planning to purchase a dupe this holiday season. [00:24:29] Vince Menzione: That’s wild. [00:24:30] Ashleigh Vogstad: Dupes can be, you know, we gave luxury, good examples, but Louis [00:24:34] Vince Menzione: Vuitton and yeah. So, [00:24:35] Ashleigh Vogstad: but furniture, these sorts of things. And the important takeaway here for tech is the same principle will land, is that people are looking for value out of a product, not necessarily a name brand. AI is accelerating this whole process, and agents are gonna be looking at the same thing. [00:24:56] Ashleigh Vogstad: They’re looking for that authenticity in terms of the actual product value. So, you know, beware there’s lots of disruption happening in the market right now with this dupe mentality, which is actually a cultural shift talking about I appreciate value over a superficial. Brand name. In some cases, there’s also a, a small contrary trend where certain luxury goods are rising because yes, things are never that simple. [00:25:22] Vince Menzione: So you work with a lot of these tech companies, a lot of SaaS companies, is we, we call them ISVs, we also call them, uh, software development companies. Now we keep changing these acronyms around. Uh, there’s been a lot of, uh, consternation in that segment, I would say, around ai. Right, because a lot of them are getting told that they’ll be outta business in a few years. [00:25:43] Vince Menzione: Mm-hmm. I think Satya Nadella famously said this last year that SAS will go away. Right? He’s predicting the demise. How do you help some of these organizations to differentiate? And there’s some of these are huge value organizations. We have have them in the room with us, ServiceNow and Veeam and Adobe. [00:26:01] Vince Menzione: Um, how do you help them achieve their results? ’cause that’s what you, you know, your organization is really helping these organizations to achieve their pinnacle as a partner. What do you, what do you say to them now and how do you help them through this time? [00:26:16] Ashleigh Vogstad: I’m on the side of the fence that I really can’t see an organization ripping out something like Salesforce, Adobe, ServiceNow. [00:26:24] Vince Menzione: Agreed. [00:26:24] Ashleigh Vogstad: I mean that the amount of change management and. The extent to which these, these platforms are embedded, actually running and operating organizations. I personally, if, if we’re calling those companies, SaaS companies, I don’t agree that that layer is gonna go away. I mean, we’re seeing these organizations lean into AI in a huge way to borrow Microsofts. [00:26:50] Ashleigh Vogstad: Term, you know, they’re all becoming frontier firms. [00:26:54] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:26:54] Ashleigh Vogstad: So where I would go to, to answer that question, we do work with many, you know, organizations on that caliber, on things like their marketplace strategy on how to light up the fields of different hyperscalers. It really does come down to things like having a strong drumbeat with the Microsoft field, celebrating your win stories. [00:27:15] Ashleigh Vogstad: Maybe that’s where I’ll land as Please do the marketer, because it sounds so simple, and I don’t know why we kind of continue to come back to this, but we’re talking about that third party validation and really, um, in order to have that, like what the hyperscalers want is you jointly celebrating success. [00:27:36] Ashleigh Vogstad: Here’s the kicker. Publicly. [00:27:38] Vince Menzione: Publicly, [00:27:39] Ashleigh Vogstad: you know, you need a customer story on your website, a press release that contains a quote from your customer. Ideally, also a quote from an executive at one of the hyperscalers. Like, actually lean in to live the value of your better together story. And when you do that, when you, when it comes around to partner of the year time, and we talk to you about, okay, what client stories are we gonna feature? [00:28:03] Ashleigh Vogstad: We’re even gonna know because when we Google you, we can see the public press of the joint wins that you’ve been celebrating. And I can tell you that that is a huge indicator on whether or not you’re well-placed to be in the 4% of partners who actually win Partner of the Year award’s. [00:28:20] Vince Menzione: Fascinating to me. [00:28:21] Vince Menzione: ’cause to me it would feel like table stakes maybe ’cause where we sit is ultimate partner and where this room sits with all the top partners that I just assume that everybody follows that. That, that guidance. [00:28:34] Ashleigh Vogstad: Mm. [00:28:34] Vince Menzione: And so this is really impactful and I want to get here because I know you spent a lot of time here and we’ve talked about it before, but I think the partner of the year awards, when we first met many years ago, that was a you, you’ve expanded the business, but that’s still a core mission and and value that you bring to the community and to the partner ecosystem is helping them through this process. [00:28:55] Vince Menzione: So I know that that’s gonna be coming up soon, so I thought maybe we’d spend a couple moments on that. [00:29:00] Ashleigh Vogstad: Partner of the Year awards, regardless of which partner, I mean, Salesforce has their own awards there. There’s more and more award programs coming out, and they’re a great way to celebrate the incredible work that your organization has done. [00:29:13] Ashleigh Vogstad: Jay McBain is brilliant on this. He’ll talk a lot about the increase in valuation. Yeah. The, the increase in stock valuation or the likelihood that if you’re looking to be acquired, that you’re acquired within 12 months of a partner of the year win it. It’s really impressive. There is strong business value there. [00:29:33] Vince Menzione: He like, he likes, he likes to tell the story of that when the award is handed to them and they go back into the audience, that the private equity people are all over them right then and there and making offers. I mean, that’s the visual that you get [00:29:47] Ashleigh Vogstad: and it’s very powerful. Yeah. Very powerful. It’s very powerful and it, it can make it worthwhile to invest in the process, but don’t invest in the process if you haven’t been investing in the process for the 12 months. [00:29:57] Ashleigh Vogstad: Prior, [00:29:58] Vince Menzione: exactly. [00:29:58] Ashleigh Vogstad: The Microsoft field or you we’re talking about Microsoft Partner of the Year Awards. They need to know about your win that that needs to be top of mind for them. Yeah. How much Azure revenue is it driving? Was it a huge marketplace? Build sales and. You know, one of the questions I get asked a ton, everybody wants to know how do we get money out of the hyperscalers? [00:30:20] Ashleigh Vogstad: How do I get access to marketing development funds or all these different programs? Yeah. You know, at Microsoft, some of these programs are like EI and customer investment funds or Azure Accelerate, you know, and there’s millions and millions and millions of dollars in these, these buckets of funds, but. [00:30:36] Ashleigh Vogstad: An interesting point of view is that it’s actually a scorecard metric for many people at Microsoft who have partnership roles for you to be drawing down those funds. [00:30:45] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:30:45] Ashleigh Vogstad: You know, your interests are actually aligned here, and so again, when it comes to Partner of the Year awards, how much money have you pulled down? [00:30:54] Ashleigh Vogstad: How much have you been an activating partner of key Microsoft programs that they’re pushing? What are you doing with marketplace rewards? How are you resing? Those into your business. These are the types of things that you really wanna be thinking about. Sitting it. You know, this time of year we probably will get the awards were likely be due in July. [00:31:13] Ashleigh Vogstad: They haven’t officially announced timelines, but you’ve got a few months to start moving these pieces into place. [00:31:18] Vince Menzione: And there are quite a few of them. And to your point, Nina, when she was up on stage here yesterday, there were at least 10 or 12 award. Uh. Funding categories that were on her, that were on her slide. [00:31:31] Vince Menzione: Her partner, her partner slide. So, [00:31:33] Ashleigh Vogstad: and what great looks like for a partner is that you understand your end-to-end funnel as it is mapped to Microsoft’s SEM model, the Microsoft customer Engagement model. Mm-hmm. The first stage there, inspire and design. That’s really the marketing space of lead generation. [00:31:50] Ashleigh Vogstad: So how are you generating leads with webinars, in-person, event activations, digital campaigns, and then at the very end, in the fifth column, you have the Microsoft outcomes that you’re driving. Yes. Whether that’s Azure consumed revenue, marketplace build sales, co-pilot, monthly active usage, these sorts of things. [00:32:10] Ashleigh Vogstad: And in each of those SEM swim lanes. There’s Microsoft funding associated to it. And that’s one of the things that Nina Harding was showing yesterday. When and where does it make sense to make requests for EA funds versus Azure accelerate the MCI funding? There’s different workshop proof of concept funding, and those all fall at specific stages in that EM model. [00:32:33] Vince Menzione: And what you’re also pointing out in this conversation is that the co the partners need to understand that mm, they need to understand MM. We talked about it years ago. I’ve had, haven’t had anybody on stage recently talk about m You could probably take us through that if we wanted to devote some time here, uh, and then understand all of those categories and how to access those funds. [00:32:52] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah, it’s critical and. The number one place we point partners, if you want a quick overview of what that looks like is to Microsoft’s FY 26 solution playbooks. Nice. They’re available on the web for download. There’s, well, there used to be three, but they’ve added a few agen being, being one. So, so there’s a handful of, they had [00:33:11] Vince Menzione: simplified it, now they’re, now they’re expanding it back again. [00:33:14] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah, exactly. I think there’s now a breakout for security as well. Yes. So take a look at those playbooks. It will map programs and incentives very specifically to each solution area and to each sales play that are gonna be available to you. And then we’re always happy to guide people through the details [00:33:32] Vince Menzione: as well. [00:33:32] Vince Menzione: I love that. I love that. And reach out to the. Ashley is just amazing at this process. I’ve, I’ve watched her for years now, work with some of the top, what have become the pinnacle partners of Microsoft and with the award season coming up. So we wanna make sure we have a plug there. But I also wanna talk about like, podcasts with you. [00:33:50] Vince Menzione: Um, you’ve been on this podcast multiple times, been in the studio before doing this, and I understand you have your own podcast now. So tell us about that. [00:33:58] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah, Vince, I just wanna say. As a friend and a mentor. You’ve been so inspiring. Thank you. And I think from years ago when we met, there was this seed in my brain of, you know, I, I should really get out there. [00:34:13] Ashleigh Vogstad: And you talk a lot about growth mindset and fear setting is, is one of Tim Ferriss’s terms? Yes. And models. [00:34:21] Vince Menzione: I love Tim Ferris. I’ve been, been a fan of his for 10 years now. So that’s settled. We all got started with this. Sorry. Sorry, I [00:34:26] Ashleigh Vogstad: interrupt. No, no, not at all. [00:34:27] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:34:28] Ashleigh Vogstad: And. I think it’s just been, it’s been back there. [00:34:31] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. That I’m really passionate around having voice is how I think about it. And as a marketing agency, we’re really amplifying the voice, um, or helping companies to find their voice, particularly in hyperscaler partnerships. And what better way to assist, you know, authentically the amazing people in our network, in our community and our clients than with our own channel where we can celebrate their stories and success? [00:35:00] Vince Menzione: Very cool. [00:35:01] Ashleigh Vogstad: So the podcast is called Transcending Tech. It’s about [00:35:06] Vince Menzione: very cool transcending tech. Just so you don’t [00:35:08] Ashleigh Vogstad: transcending tech. [00:35:08] Vince Menzione: It’s out there now. [00:35:10] Ashleigh Vogstad: It, we just released our first episode. Okay. I think two days ago. [00:35:13] Vince Menzione: So by the time we’re live, yes. We’ll, we’ll be able to access it. Good. [00:35:17] Ashleigh Vogstad: You will be able to access it. [00:35:18] Ashleigh Vogstad: The first episode is with Alyssa Fit. Patrick from Elastic. [00:35:21] Vince Menzione: Oh my goodness. [00:35:22] Ashleigh Vogstad: And the concept of the podcast, it’s long form and it’s really about getting to the people behind the platforms. [00:35:29] Vince Menzione: Very cool. [00:35:29] Ashleigh Vogstad: And to the stories that transcend technology. So we’re here to get to know the human beings behind. Agents. [00:35:38] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:35:38] Ashleigh Vogstad: And taking the time to, to go in deep and really explore that. [00:35:43] Vince Menzione: So I am excited to see all the developments here with the, with the podcast. And you’re gonna be joining us again. You were just here, you in Boca. But you’ll be joining us again in Bellevue. Not too far a little bit. Closer ride or travel, uh, for you to come to Bellevue. [00:35:57] Vince Menzione: We’re gonna be hosting the first ultimate partner live, which is our larger events in this beautiful facility, this new Intercontinental hotel, which is fabulous. And, uh, you’re gonna be taking a more active role. Your leadership around AI is. Palpable and we’re gonna love to have you on stage and talking through some of the changes. [00:36:17] Vince Menzione: I, I suspect by the time we get to Bellevue we’ll have a lot more to talk about. That hasn’t even happened yet. [00:36:23] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah, I’m really excited. I’ll have been through my next cohort at at Oxford, kind of coming out hot from there back to the Pacific Northwest, and really excited to just share the learnings and Awesome. [00:36:35] Ashleigh Vogstad: Genuinely. It’s also helping me in my own research, really formulate particularly around the role of ag agentic AI in hyperscaler partnerships. [00:36:43] Vince Menzione: That’s so cool. And then what I’ll say is this, and I don’t know, we on the space perspective, and I’ll, the team will probably hang me for this because we haven’t done it yet, but if you wanna bring the podcast along with you, there might be, we’ll see if we can find an extra room for you to set up. [00:36:58] Vince Menzione: If you wanna do some interviews while you’re. In, at the event. So [00:37:02] Ashleigh Vogstad: you’re so generous, Vince. [00:37:03] Vince Menzione: That’s [00:37:04] Ashleigh Vogstad: amazing. [00:37:04] Vince Menzione: Thank you. Again, I can’t say for certainty yet, but, uh, let’s see, let’s see what happens with that. So, uh, let, let’s, uh, you know, I always, we, we have known each other for years and I just assume everybody knows this amazing Ashley sda. [00:37:19] Vince Menzione: But, um, we always, I like to ask this question because it helps us kind of dig in a little bit about you personally. And it’s my favorite question. I ask all my guests this question now, and it’s, um, you’re hosting a dinner party, Ashley, you are, pick a pace, place, you wanna have this dinner. We could talk about parts of the world. [00:37:36] Vince Menzione: You’ve traveled all extensively. Uh, and you can invite any three people, guests from the present. Or the past to this amazing dinner party you’re throwing. Whom would you invite and why? [00:37:52] Ashleigh Vogstad: It’s a beautiful question, Vince and. Instantly I go to a place in terms of the location, since you asked that part, which was surprising. [00:38:01] Ashleigh Vogstad: I, I like that is my home. I, I love where I live up in Whistler, Canada and [00:38:08] Vince Menzione: I hear it’s beautiful. I haven’t been yet, [00:38:10] Ashleigh Vogstad: it’s so gorgeous and it’s, it’s my own sanctuary. You know, I live on a plane 75% of the time and coming back to that place is really grounding for me. Yes. So, so I would love to have it at, at my home and to invite. [00:38:24] Ashleigh Vogstad: Pippa Malrin would be one. She, Pippa [00:38:26] Vince Menzione: Malrin. [00:38:27] Ashleigh Vogstad: Yeah. She’s sure. I get an advisor to the White House for many administrations. Okay. She’s an economist and she just has really interesting perspective on geopolitics. Uh, I follow her on Substack ’cause she’s a big substack. Okay, now [00:38:41] Vince Menzione: I need to look. This is awesome. [00:38:42] Vince Menzione: The [00:38:43] Ashleigh Vogstad: mal, she’s fantastic. I would say Dr. Lisa Sue, the CEO, Dr. Lisa of a md. [00:38:49] Vince Menzione: Okay. Yes, yes. I know a little bit about her. [00:38:51] Ashleigh Vogstad: So she was one of Time Mag, I think she was the only woman in Time Magazine’s, group of people of the year, which was basically this AI cohort in including, you know, the Elon Musks of the world. [00:39:03] Ashleigh Vogstad: Uh, it’s just so impressive what she’s doing with leadership in a MD. I don’t think it’s as public as. Anybody else who is on the cover of that magazine, but it’s incredibly powerful. [00:39:14] Vince Menzione: Yeah, they’ve made a com uh, turnaround’s probably not the right word, but it seems like they’ve made a tremendous, uh, gains turnaround probably in the last few years. [00:39:23] Ashleigh Vogstad: I would say that many would say turnaround. And then lastly is Dr. Fefe Lee, who. For those in the AI space, particularly AI research space. I mean, she’s arguably number one. Um, she’s leading at Stanford currently. [00:39:37] Vince Menzione: Wow. This is gonna be a heady conversation, but you know, I love conversations. So if you don’t mind, maybe I’ll bring dessert and come, come in for a few moments, maybe do some podcast interviews there. [00:39:48] Vince Menzione: How’s that? [00:39:49] Ashleigh Vogstad: That sounds absolutely perfect, Vince, [00:39:50] Vince Menzione: so, so good. So good to have you here today. So great. Good to have you in the studio again, and, uh, excited for transcends and all the great work you’re doing. Um. This time with ai. I think you, uh, we talked about this a little bit last night. I think you’ve made some really wise, personal and professional decisions about how to lead and how to take this forward and not kind of rest on your laurels, which you see so many organizations do People fear change [00:40:17] Ashleigh Vogstad: Hmm. [00:40:18] Vince Menzione: And you embrace it, which is just, it’s astounding to me that you do that and, um. I look forward to working with you in the future and for years and years to come. So I will ask you one more question though, because we are still at the precipice of these tectonic shifts and we’re still early in 2026. And so for our listeners and our viewers today, what would be the one thing you would tell them that they need to go do now that possibly they haven’t done yet as they prepare for 2026 and beyond? [00:40:52] Ashleigh Vogstad: The generic phrase would be, be curious, but if we want an action, it would be go build an agent. [00:40:59] Vince Menzione: Go build an agent [00:41:00] Ashleigh Vogstad: if, if you haven’t already. Yeah. And, and I’m, yeah. Speaking hopefully to like a business audience, you know, to, to anyone. Yeah. Really, um, find something that is interesting that you’re passionate about. [00:41:12] Ashleigh Vogstad: A, a use case that it doesn’t have to be some big thing. It could be quite mundane, but just something that’s gonna help you in your role. It’s, you know, what is creativity is an interesting question, and I can tell you that sitting down and hands-on keys and actually creating something is, is a beautiful, powerful experience. [00:41:32] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Awesome. All right. We’re all gonna go create agents this weekend, so thank you for listening. Thank you for viewing the Ultimate Guide to partnering on our YouTube channel, ultimate Partner, and on each end of your platforms at the Ultimate Guide to partnering. Thank you for being with us and supporting us all these years. [00:41:50] Vince Menzione: Thank you. Don’t forget, ultimate Partner Live is coming soon, May 11th through the 13th in beautiful Bellevue, Washington. I hope to see you there.

The Deal You Never Knew Existed. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this deep dive, Jay McBain reveals the harsh reality of the “28 Moments” in a modern B2B buying journey, using a multi-million dollar SAP deal at AstraZeneca as a wake-up call for vendors. He explains how traditional marketing leads are failing in the “decade of the ecosystem,” where trusted partners like NTT and SoftwareOne are winning deals in “light blue” partnership moments months before a customer ever downloads an ebook. If you aren’t visible in the seven-layer stack or collaborating with the partners who hold the customer’s trust, you aren’t just losing the deal—you’re losing the entire market. https://youtu.be/NO-P6X2dTAo?si=8e_sVesqvwaC0M-E Key Takeaways Most vendors lose major deals without ever knowing a transaction was even taking place. The average considered purchase involves 28 distinct moments of research and influence before a sale. Trusted partners often close the deal in the “middle moments” months before the money is actually spent. Traditional marketing leads (MQLs) are often too “flimsy” compared to deep partner-led relationships. Winning in the ecosystem requires being part of a “seven-layer stack” of integrated technology and services. Data-sharing platforms like Crossbeam and Workspan are now essential to seeing the “invisible” pipeline. If you’re ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags: 28 Moments, Jay McBain, Ecosystem Strategy, AstraZeneca SAP Deal, Seven Layer Stack, B2B Buying Journey, Partner Ecosystem, NTT, SoftwareOne, Channel Strategy, Buyer Intent, Informa TechTarget, Collaborative Selling, Crossbeam, Partner Tap, Workspan, Marketplace Tracking, Co-selling, Tech Integration, Revenue Architecture, Pipeline Growth, Trusted Advisor, Digital Transformation, SAP Optimization, Microsoft AWS Competition. Transcript: [00:00:00] Jay McBain: So if you’re a vendor trying to get into that seven layer stack and you don’t have that relationship, or you don’t have the knowledge that NTT or software one is going in, this will have been a deal that would’ve never hit your pipeline and you’ll have no knowledge. So you will have lost this deal without knowing there was a deal. [00:00:19] Vince Menzione: We’ve been talking 28 moments, but you have a slide. I thought we’d spend some time here because, you know, every conversation with you is about 28 moments, but you finally took the time to analyze one of your deals or one of the deals that was going on with one of your clients and come up with the 28 moments. [00:00:36] Vince Menzione: I thought we’d spend a little time here because this journey slide is a wake up call. Uh, it’s, it’s, it’s all around. Why, why we need to think about all of those. Points we need to think about communities and analysts and marketplaces and proof of concepts and architecture and everything else. I thought maybe you’d take us through this a little bit. [00:00:53] Vince Menzione: ’cause this was for a client, AstraZeneca, by the way. This was, uh, if you don’t know this, ICI Americas was the precursor of mm-hmm. AstraZeneca. It was the first SAP customer in North America. [00:01:03] Jay McBain: Nice. I did [00:01:04] Vince Menzione: not know that. That’s why Microsoft and SAP both headquartered. In that area, near nearby, that client. [00:01:10] Vince Menzione: That’s, uh, news, new news. [00:01:11] Jay McBain: And by the way, this is an SAP deal we’re looking at. Yeah. Uh, so two things here. One is that, um, while I was declaring the decade of the ecosystem, you know, spending time with you and Boca, in between that time we got acquired. Canals, which was Latin for channel, got acquired by oia, part of Informa TechTarget, part of this bigger informa company, which is a Fortune 100 company outta the uk. [00:01:32] Jay McBain: Fantastic. You know, we’re part of this massive organization that is really around buyer intent. How, you know, a tech target and, uh, running hundreds of magazines like Information Week and Computer Week that customers and partners read running hundreds of events, the biggest events on the planet. [00:01:49] Vince Menzione: Crazy [00:01:49] Jay McBain: in B2B, like Black Hat and all these things are run by [00:01:52] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:01:53] Jay McBain: informa. [00:01:53] Jay McBain: So it’s got this massive mountain of data. About the 28 moments. So when you start to think if you’re a CMO and you start to think about the early moments, you, you think about somebody reading an ebook or, um, going to a, a webinar or going onto a LinkedIn live just like this one. Yeah, going to a major event and getting a pair of socks from you. [00:02:13] Jay McBain: Um, but anything early in the journey. These are the m qls. These are the things that I need enough of them to be credible before I hand them over to my sales team. ’cause I don’t wanna be laughed out of the room. Hey, they read an ebook. They must, AstraZeneca must be buying millions of dollars of stuff. [00:02:27] Vince Menzione: Traditional marketing lead. [00:02:29] Jay McBain: Traditional marketing lead. So they’re a bit nervous about sharing that. And then later on, the sales motions, the demos and all the progression of the sales. This was the two decades before us, the decade of sales, decade of marketing. But the 28 moments, just to take a step back, if you haven’t heard, it is just a considered purchase. [00:02:46] Jay McBain: It’s about psychology, human psychology. When you go and buy a car, second most expensive thing that you will purchase you on average will go through 28 moments getting ready for that purchase. Some people go through two moments and they just drive to the Cadillac dealership to see Larry, who’s been selling Cadillacs to the family for 80 years. [00:03:04] Jay McBain: Yep. Some people spend 58 moments. That’s probably me. [00:03:07] Vince Menzione: That’s you, a, [00:03:08] Jay McBain: you know, going through all the depreciation, watching every YouTube video, you know, going to the end of the earth. But the average is 28. So you start to think about this, this is the same buying a car considered purchase, that you would buy a million dollars in software. [00:03:21] Jay McBain: From Microsoft or SAP. So when you look at these moments, you start to think, you know, how is you before you buy that car, downloading the invoice price, downloading this month’s backend rebates. Should I buy it in January? Should I buy it in February? All these decisions you make before you get to that dealership, you’re smarter than the salesperson, smarter than the sales manager. [00:03:39] Jay McBain: You know what 5,000 people bought the car for within 50 miles of you? I mean, you’re just so smart. You actually don’t need the dealership anymore. Just Carvana to me, hand me the keys. Exactly. But now in buying technology, hardware, software services, customers are getting this smart. And here’s all the moments they take to get this smart. [00:03:57] Jay McBain: But the thing we always had in mind in this decade of the ecosystem was the 96% there are trusted people. Yeah. Spending decades building that trust that come in in critical moments. They’re not marketing moments, they’re not sales moments. They are fully partnership moments. Yeah. And they’re on this slide in light blue. [00:04:15] Jay McBain: So if you were to look at this deal and, and somebody in marketing is finding these eBooks and webinars and they think there might be something, AWS got a direct hit on their website. So there’s something brewing at AstraZeneca. It, it might be in, it’s a big pharmaceutical company, so you’re probably spending millions of dollars if something’s brewing. [00:04:31] Jay McBain: Yep. But guess what? At the same time, in December on this six month journey. Partners come in with five different paid projects, consulting, advisory design projects, and in this case it was NTT software one, Yash and uh, ISV was there. Yep. But NTT won three different. Deals right at that critical stage. It wasn’t Accenture, it wasn’t Deloitte, NTT at this particular department of AstraZeneca had spent the decades building those relationships. [00:04:58] Jay McBain: So they were the one, and they won critical part of this. And so that’s when the deal is won. And it’s not at April when the money’s being spent. Yeah, it’s, it’s not in March when a couple more ISVs joined the mix, that seven layer stack that solves this particular problem, it was right there. So if you’re a vendor trying to get into that seven layer stack and you don’t have that relationship, or you don’t have the knowledge that NTT or software one is going in, this will have been a deal that would’ve never hit your pipeline and you’ll have no knowledge. [00:05:30] Jay McBain: So you will have lost this deal without knowing there was a deal, which makes up again, the majority of your tam. [00:05:34] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:05:35] Jay McBain: But what if I did have this agentic ability to see this deal coming, and I’m a cybersecurity company, I’m just competing for layer five of the deal, but I know that it’s all happening in December. [00:05:46] Jay McBain: So the two things that jump out on this particular slide is one, they don’t just show up in December. [00:05:51] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:05:51] Jay McBain: this went closed one in their Salesforce CRM in August, September, well, before the customer ever read an ebook. So now you’re not dealing with a flimsy MQL. You’re dealing with a couple of great, you know, top partner 1000 sized firms. [00:06:09] Jay McBain: One of them is a partner, 30 firm. [00:06:11] Vince Menzione: Exactly. [00:06:12] Jay McBain: That is absolutely going into and earning hundreds of thousands of dollars in services to guide the customer to a millions of dollars in purchase. And, and you can imagine in that boardroom. With A CMO saying, Hey, I got this stuff here. And the head of channels or partnerships saying, no, no, this is real. [00:06:32] Jay McBain: Here’s the names, faces, and places. Yeah. And here’s how it’s happening. And this is exactly, this is the Gantt chart, this is the show up, this is the project, this is the outcome. This is exactly how it’s playing out. Now if I could go back and the board and the C-suite should be asking us, well, how many more deals like this can you see? [00:06:50] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:06:51] Jay McBain: If our TAM is, you know, how many billions of dollars? Could you double our pipeline by seeing more of these middle moments? And if we got a couple of months to spend with these partners before they get in front of the customer, could they build more of our portfolio into the deal so we’re not just layer five, maybe we’re layer three and layer five. [00:07:10] Vince Menzione: This slide screams at me. Integr Tech integration Cha. A partner channel integration of tech, uh, whether it’s Crossbeam, whether it’s Partner Tap, whether it’s work span, or any of these other technologies, tackle any of these technologies that are tracking marketplace, that are tracking partner to partner, co-selling. [00:07:30] Vince Menzione: Getting the integration points. The only way to really understand the situation here, because this is a multinational company. Yeah. It’s being touched at all PO points around the globe. And to understand who’s calling who, who’s influencing who, and getting a real view, you know, a uber view of what that looks like is super important. [00:07:47] Jay McBain: It is. And you know, if I’m trying to sell like a cross beam or partner tab or work span or something into my executive team, I’m just showing them this slide. [00:07:54] Vince Menzione: Exactly. [00:07:54] Jay McBain: Would you like to know about this deal? Like you see, October is the start of the timeline here. Would you like to know about this deal in August, September? [00:08:00] Vince Menzione: Yep. [00:08:01] Jay McBain: Would you like to know about it automatically? Again, we’re not waiting for somebody, a human in a cubicle to go fill out a form. We’re not waiting for them to call somebody at our in, in a cubicle at our company. Yeah. We’re literally age genically sharing platforms, and so when this triggers that AstraZeneca and now triggers in our CRM system as well, our team on AstraZeneca gets notified and it gets notified in September before the 28 moments even starts. [00:08:27] Jay McBain: This, the power of this, of doubling, tripling your pipeline and then winning a bigger yield, a bigger percentage of that pipeline. This is the holy grail of our industry, and no one’s gonna get to a hundred percent. You’re not gonna have a hundred percent of your tam covered by your pipeline. No one’s gonna win a hundred percent of that. [00:08:43] Jay McBain: But again, we only have to be 10 or 20% better than our competitors and we need to start moving on this now. [00:08:50] Vince Menzione: So your imperative for the partners here, well everyone watching here today, I mean, this screams to me build your ecosystem strategy in such a strong and succinct way. What else would you say to them? [00:09:00] Jay McBain: I mean, the second thing that jumps out, you see two AWS direct touches here. This is something that this would be inbound. This AWS would see this deal in their pipeline. [00:09:09] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:09:10] Jay McBain: Because the customer came to them. AWS lost this deal. Crazy. So Microsoft won this deal. I, I mentioned Microsoft outgrowing AWS Yeah. [00:09:19] Jay McBain: ’cause in this particular case, NTT and Software One and Yash came in with Microsoft. Yeah. To solve an SAP optimization, Microsoft, and, you know, seven layer deal. So whether you’re in AWS, whether you’re in Microsoft, whether you’re anywhere else in this industry, you’re thinking like, you’re not gonna probably overtake what happens in December. [00:09:39] Jay McBain: These are the most trusted, smartest people in the room. And whatever happens in those projects is the seven layer stack the customer’s gonna buy in March, April. So I, I start to think about this and go, I need to win. ’cause NTT has a wonderful relationship with AWS. [00:09:55] Vince Menzione: They do, [00:09:56] Jay McBain: I mean, partner of the year level. [00:09:57] Jay McBain: I mean, they’ve got 10,000 people certified. I mean, there’s just a, you know, there’s no one at AWS that, um, you know, would take a, a loss here because it’s a wonderful relationship. And Software One, they [00:10:09] Vince Menzione: go back to Microsoft actually 30, 40 years though they do. They were Dimension data before that. Yeah. [00:10:14] Vince Menzione: And they have the long hit Legacy And Software One. Software one as well. You, [00:10:19] Jay McBain: you know, well Software one is Microsoft’s biggest reseller, uh, in Europe. And now with Crayon, you know, one of the biggest in the world. So I would be nervous if I was looking at this and saw Software one coming in with NTT and watching these things take place if I were able to see this back in September, October and work with these companies. [00:10:38] Jay McBain: That’s where kind of Microsoft came into the picture. And this never hit Microsoft’s pipeline. No Microsoft salesperson ever worked on it, but millions of dollars came to Microsoft. Yeah. Uh, out of this deal. So there are examples of where Microsoft gets touched and AWS wins the deal. So this isn’t meant to say that it happens in every case, but it’s meant to say data rules the future, and agent ai, the ability to plumb in these boxes. [00:11:00] Jay McBain: Working with Informa tech, target people that can plumb in the boxes for you with third party data, helping you with the light blue boxes. We gotta be obsessed over these light blue boxes. [00:11:11] Vince Menzione: It’s incredible. The Ultimate Partner Winter Retreat is gonna be here in the Boca Studio. This is the third year that we’re gonna be here in Boca. [00:11:21] Vince Menzione: This is always a favorite of our community members, our executive members, our sponsors and speakers. We’ll all be here in the studio, which is a really intimate setting. We can see upwards of 40, 50 people. Uh, we’ll be hosting an incredible dinner at the Boca Resort overlooking the golf course. That’s an incredible property and, uh, we’d love to have you join us. [00:11:45] Vince Menzione: Thank you for being part of the ultimate Partner community, and I hope to see you this year at one of our events. Thank you.

Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ https://youtu.be/-flNeKF6CxQ?si=xIIQ4LUl7oraQjkg Microsoft’s Cyril Belikoff joins Vince Menzione to reveal the seismic shift occurring within the newly reimagined Microsoft Marketplace. As the industry moves toward a predicted $300 billion partner opportunity by 2030, this discussion deconstructs the evolution of the “Frontier” vision, the launch of the AI apps and agents category, and the critical “Resale Enabled Offer” (REO) that is currently doubling deal sizes for early adopters. Whether you are a software company looking to scale globally or a reseller aiming to stitch together complex AI solutions, the message is clear: the flywheel is already spinning, and those who wait for a “perfect strategy” risk being permanently displaced by more agile competitors who are getting their feet wet today. Key Takeaways The Microsoft Marketplace has been reimagined into a single destination for discovering, buying, and deploying AI apps and agents. Analysts predict a staggering $300 billion opportunity for partners within the Microsoft Marketplace by 2030. The new Resale Enabled Offer (REO) allows software companies to authorize channel partners to resell on their behalf across specific geographies with minimal overhead. Cloud migration is far from over, as massive amounts of on-premise data and ISV apps still need to be modernized for the AI era. Marketplace deal sizes are doubling as customers use Azure commitments to retire their marketplace acquisition costs. Successful partners are moving away from “boiling the ocean” strategies and instead focusing on transacting one or two deals to learn the ecosystem’s mechanics. If you’re ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags: Microsoft Marketplace, AI apps and agents, Resale Enabled Offer, REO, Cyril Belikoff, Azure Marketplace, AppSource, cloud solutions, software companies, digital transformation, AI strategy, channel led sales, ISV solutions, cloud migration, Azure commitments, Microsoft Cloud, Frontier vision, MSP opportunity, marketplace transacting, AI monetization, global scale, procurement, IT deployment, technical modernization, partner ecosystem, business applications. Opening Lines: [00:00:00] Cyril Belikoff: Marketplace is really the extension of our vision for Frontier, uh, and the Microsoft Cloud. You know, the, the Microsoft technology takes a customer a long way, but in many ways to complete the thought. If you’re in football terms, you want to cross over the line and score touchdown. You can’t just get, uh, to the red zone. [00:00:20] Cyril Belikoff: You actually need partner solutions. [00:00:26] Vince Menzione: So let’s, let’s kick off to Marketplace a little bit right, too, because, uh, it’s been a big year for Marketplace, or 20, the first half of 2026 fiscal year 2026 has been a big year. A lot of announcements, a lot of things going on in the world, in marketplace. Where do we wanna start there? Let’s recap some of it. [00:00:44] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah. Um, so, um. It feels like a long time ago, but in, at the end of September, [00:00:51] Vince Menzione: yeah. [00:00:52] Cyril Belikoff: Um, at the AR tour, uh, in Chicago, we announced a new Microsoft marketplace. We reimagined that experience. It’s a new customer experience, single destination for customers to. You know, discover, find, try, buy, and deploy cloud solutions, AI apps and agents all in one place. [00:01:11] Cyril Belikoff: And so historically, we’ve had a little bit, uh, of decentralization. We had this thing called the Azure Marketplace and AppSource for different experiences. AppSource was more for teams and, and copilot. Um, and, and office, Azure Marketplace. Of course, that was for Azure. We brought all of that into one place. [00:01:30] Cyril Belikoff: So customers, whether they are looking for a SaaS solution running on Azure, an agent that snaps into copilot, an experience that runs in our security store, now they can go to one place. Um. marketplace.microsoft.com. It’s one, it’s the new Microsoft marketplace. And we have an, of course, we have a, we had, we launched a brand new category, AI apps and agents, and we launched that category in September. [00:01:54] Cyril Belikoff: Uh, bringing together numerous, uh, uh, partner offerings. Yeah. And today we have the largest catalog, um, probably in the mid four thousands of AI and agents. Wow. Available to customer. So fantastic. There was, there was quite a big moment in September. Um, and then fast forward a little bit to November, we announced a resale enabled offer, um, at Ignite [00:02:15] Vince Menzione: eo. [00:02:16] Vince Menzione: Eo [00:02:16] Cyril Belikoff: eo. I, [00:02:17] Vince Menzione: I like EO reminds me of the band back in the day. [00:02:19] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah. R Speedwagon. There you go. Uh, well, and it’s, it’s not that far from it because Oreo accelerates. Yeah. Um, what partners can do, uh, with the marketplace and really connects. Software companies and resellers, which I’m sure we’ll talk about in a second. [00:02:34] Cyril Belikoff: But that’s really the recap, um, of, uh, you know, the new Microsoft marketplace, how we enabling it for, uh, for partners through the the resell enable offer. [00:02:45] Vince Menzione: So, I know we talked on this a little bit, but I wanna maybe just expand on it. What does the frontier push and the marketplace evolution mean for partners? [00:02:53] Vince Menzione: Because I, I think it’s huge for both, for these partners to really monetize and accelerate their success working with you. [00:03:00] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah. So, um. Marketplace is really the extension of our vision for Frontier, uh, and the Microsoft Cloud. You know, the, the Microsoft technology takes a customer a long way, but in many ways to complete the thought and to, you know, uh, uh. [00:03:20] Cyril Belikoff: If you’re in football terms, you wanna cross over the line and score a touchdown, you can’t just get, uh, to the red zone. You actually need partner solutions. [00:03:28] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:03:29] Cyril Belikoff: Uh, and so that’s where the partner solutions, combined with Microsoft’s first party offerings become a really, really. Great offering and powerful offering for our customers to, to become Frontier. [00:03:40] Cyril Belikoff: So we have obviously a ton of AI experiences, our own co-pilot experiences, uh, Microsoft Foundry, which is a platform for ai, but in, in many ways, we need those industry solutions. We need those AI apps and agents from partners to complete that offering. And that’s really. How it comes together and, uh, you know, uh, I heard you from o was just on before me. [00:04:01] Cyril Belikoff: They actually predict that the Microsoft marketplace, uh, is a 300 billion partner opportunity by 2030. Yeah, they’re talking about, I think, mid eighties growth. We have literally seen our business for the last three years, and we are in the middle of our, uh, you know, third year doubling. And so when you get three or four years of doubling every year, that’s compounded doubling. [00:04:24] Cyril Belikoff: Um, so, uh, we have seen lots of momentum from customers, lots of interest. We’ve made it, you know. Interesting for customers. Um, and incentivize our customers with their Azure commitments that can retire their marketplace, uh, acquisitions that way. We’ve made it, we’ve put incentives for partners and for our own sellers. [00:04:44] Cyril Belikoff: So we really creating the flywheel for everybody in the market to see value from, uh, the marketplace. So. Like, like, like you mentioned, like m the, uh, you know, suggested [00:04:55] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:04:55] Cyril Belikoff: It’s only exploding the opportunity on marketplace. [00:04:58] Vince Menzione: Well, and you both touched on the fact that the data is not in the cloud yet. [00:05:02] Vince Menzione: Not all the data that needs to be in the cloud in order to drive the future of where we wanna go from a society. Mm-hmm. And from a business application perspective needs to be in the cloud. So huge opportunities for partners around data states, around securing that data, governing that data, and so on, on top of all the business applications, [00:05:19] Cyril Belikoff: right? [00:05:19] Vince Menzione: As promise. So incredible. Yep. So let’s [00:05:22] Cyril Belikoff: talk about, yeah. The call migration. The call migration, people think that is over and it’s long from over because customers have plenty, uh, on premise, uh, not only Microsoft technology, but the, the, the, the software company or the ISV app that sits on top of it. Yeah. [00:05:36] Cyril Belikoff: And that needs to be migrated, managed, modernized, um, and marketplace is a big part of that too. Um, but there’s so many services and, um, opportunities around it. [00:05:45] Vince Menzione: Incredible opportunity. Let’s talk about the channel and the channel opportunity. You, you touched on this earlier, right? So this really lighting up the channel. [00:05:53] Vince Menzione: I saw this loud and clear when we were at Ignite. Like this is a huge opportunity for the Es, for the resellers, for all the partners. And as part of REO, you’ve got huge opportunities you’re laying out for them for the 500,000 part partners. You know, we talk about the Bill Gates moment down here in Boca. [00:06:09] Vince Menzione: This is where it all started. Uh, yep. How, how do you think about marketplace in the channel today? [00:06:16] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah. You know, it’s, um, it’s vital. You know, we have a customer need, um, from. The smallest is small business all the way to enterprise. And the really, the only way we serve that, the only way we know how to serve that is with our partners from the largest of partners that serve our top enterprises down through, um, what we call small and medium and then down to our small business. [00:06:41] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:06:41] Cyril Belikoff: Um, and so, you know, we have seen our. You know, while our, we’ve seen a doubling of our business, we’ve seen three, three and a half to four x doubling of our channel led sales. [00:06:53] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:06:54] Cyril Belikoff: Um, over the last year. And so while our overall business is doubling, channel is accelerating even, you know, even more. [00:07:02] Cyril Belikoff: And so there, there’s a need from our customers because they buy from our channel and there’s obviously a need from the channel. And so we created this resale enabled offer. As you mentioned, we, um. We announced private preview in September and launched GA at Ignite. So, you know, uh, November, just before Thanksgiving holiday and retail Enable offer is all about scale and how we connect a, a, an independent software vendor or a software company. [00:07:27] Cyril Belikoff: To authorize a channel partner to resell on their behalf on a particular geography. And then that allows software companies to expand into new markets with very little overhead. And it allows the channel partners to create a set of offerings, not only from one partner, but you might have multiple software companies or applications that you stitch that are together to create an end-to-end customer offering or experience. [00:07:51] Cyril Belikoff: And so we are seeing, we are seeing many to many relationships. So software companies might authorize many resellers, many markets they’re in, for example. Yep. And then resellers, um, they’re, they’re becoming authorized resellers from many software companies so that they can really stitch together, end into end solution. [00:08:09] Cyril Belikoff: And it, we’re loving it and we are getting great feedback. It is early days for our global availability for, uh, re office, which. But we had partners that were literally waiting, um, uh, and waiting for deals. And within the first week there was, they were, uh, processing the, the Oreo deals at, at, at quite large scale already. [00:08:31] Cyril Belikoff: So. We are excited about the feedback that we’re getting. We, as you know, we, we stay close to that feedback and we listen well, um, and adjust from it. So we got more work to do, but, um, it’s a great opportunity for, to connect our, our multiple types of partners, software companies, and resellers. [00:08:48] Vince Menzione: Yeah, I agree. [00:08:49] Vince Menzione: And you know, I talk to a lot of these organizations myself, and there is palpable excitement. In the channel from Distees that were sort of disengaged a couple of years ago, maybe, trying to figure out where they were gonna monetize. And the other way area that’s aligned to this as well is the Ms. P community. [00:09:06] Vince Menzione: So these MSPs are getting bigger and bigger, and organizations like Accenture, Avanade, and ndl. Or becoming MSPs or creating Ms. P practices within their own firms. But there’s even these smaller MSPs, but many of ’em are getting to a billion dollars or more. These were little mom and pop companies years ago, but the customer so needs to have, you know, especially with ai, right? [00:09:27] Vince Menzione: Because we’re in a constant state of evolution right now. I need somebody that can help me on the tooling and then also help me on, you know, getting the tooling to work. And so, uh, we’re seeing a lot of excitement from that. Community, which wasn’t really as engaged with Microsoft the way they that they are now. [00:09:43] Vince Menzione: They’re really getting engaged in a big way. [00:09:46] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah, it’s promising. Like you say, you know, the, the, we’re all learning this new AI world and obviously marketplace has taken off. We’ve had the classic SaaS solutions or cloud solutions on marketplace for a while, but really un having the local partner that’s close to the customer, what the customer’s trying to need to do and be able to connect the, the traditional. [00:10:07] Cyril Belikoff: Software as a service applications with these new AI experiences and really, uh, stitch them together and help them operationalize, you know, in their own, you know, cus in their own terms and what they’re trying to, uh, do is so important. You know, um, and to your point there, there are large, they’re the large ones that are seeing opportunity on the marketplace. [00:10:27] Cyril Belikoff: But the, you know, when you get down to, uh, medium and smaller businesses, they really need their local friendly resetter to help them. [00:10:35] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:10:35] Cyril Belikoff: Uh, so you’re right. We are seeing an, a new en energy engagement from not only our existing 500,000 partners, but a bunch of those new ones. [00:10:44] Vince Menzione: So, uh, again, second week of 2026, and people are really just starting to wake up from the holidays. [00:10:50] Vince Menzione: Now they’re getting ready for their s ks. All these partners are lining up and getting their teams aligned. Uh, you’re in front of them. Let’s have a conversation like what should they be doing better and differently? What do they need to go do now? It’s 2026. [00:11:06] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah. Um, you know, first of all, if you’re a software company, you know, understand what the, the Microsoft marketplace can help you with, uh, can help you scale to global markets, remove burdens like tax, um, a processing, engaging with customers. [00:11:21] Cyril Belikoff: Um, we’re seeing an acceleration and doubling of, uh, not an acceleration deals, but doubling of deal sizes, as you know, through the marketplace. Uh, and there. It helps with engagement at different types of companies, whether it’s, or different types of, uh, roles in a company, whether it’s a, a procurement person or an IT person or a business person. [00:11:42] Cyril Belikoff: So, you know, get onto the marketplace, create offerings, um, and give us feedback. And then on the reseller side, um, also lots of opportunities, you know, register as, as a reseller, um, you know, understand the benefits and. The, the Azure sponsorships that we have available for you, that you can close deals with their, their, their credits and, and incentives that we provide to you. [00:12:06] Cyril Belikoff: And then figure out how you do your first deal with a software company. Um, yeah. You know, a lot of people will say like, should I have a big strategy? And Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you want to, that’s okay, but just getting into. Uh, the marketplace, figuring out one or two deals, transacting and seeing the opportunity is many ways the best way to do it and to learn it yourself. [00:12:28] Cyril Belikoff: And then you figure out, okay, where, where’s the opportunity for me in this deal? Am I in the transaction? Uh, am I in the services around the transaction or combination? Um, and just getting your feet wet will get you going and, and, uh, get you learning. [00:12:42] Vince Menzione: You know, I think about this in the, the time the partners are, they have this huge opportunity with Microsoft around marketplace and then thinking about how they build their own ecosystem. [00:12:52] Vince Menzione: And like you said, don’t, don’t try and boil the ocean, right. Don’t try and do it all at once. Mm-hmm. But start out small, but understand, you know, work with the Microsoft teams, understand how, how co-selling works, how to engage with the, with the Microsoft organization. How to, how to be up on marketplace, how to situationally. [00:13:09] Vince Menzione: You know, Jay and I were talking about this 28 moments and he talked about a deal that started out as an AWS deal, but it wound up a Microsoft deal because NTT and Software one were involved in the in the deal and influencing the customer’s decision process. Right working with Microsoft. And so we just need to be smarter, I think. [00:13:28] Vince Menzione: I think today it’s a very different model than it was 20 years ago when you and I got started in this business. Uh, yeah. And people just really need to go think about this more strategically in how they build this. [00:13:39] Cyril Belikoff: It’s great. I totally agree. Um, like I said, getting your feet wet, understanding the co-sell to your point and, and, and how Microsoft sells. [00:13:48] Cyril Belikoff: Um, and then understand what customers are trying to, you know, get, get, get out of it with their, their Azure commitments and how they can retire their Azure commitments through purchases on marketplace, which in sense them, um, to also work on the marketplace. So you, I think partners will find Microsoft sellers. [00:14:04] Cyril Belikoff: Own compensation, um, incentive to work. We’ll find that customers are incentive to transact on the marketplace. And so just enter that, you know, triangle and, and get engaged and, uh, and learn and then give us feedback. Like, like I’ve mentioned many times with you, we, uh, we take feedback every month from customers and partners in, in forums like this, um, in other forums, and then we evolve and, you know, build out, uh, stronger experiences. [00:14:31] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Cyril, I want to thank you again. So great to have you join us today and, uh, so excited to continue our, our mutual relationship and our beneficial relationship in 2026. So thank you again for everything you do and supporting us. [00:14:45] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Happy New Year to yourself and uh, and your community and, uh, thanks so much again. [00:14:50] Cyril Belikoff: Appreciate it. [00:14:50] Vince Menzione: Thank you, Cyril. The Ultimate Partner Winter Retreat is gonna be here in the Boca Studio. This is the third year that we’re gonna be here in Boca. This is always a favorite of our community members, our executive members, our sponsors and speakers. We’ll all be here in the studio, which is a really intimate setting. [00:15:12] Vince Menzione: We can see upwards of 40, 50 people. Uh, we’ll be hosting an incredible dinner at the Boca Resort overlooking the golf course. That’s an incredible property and, uh, we’d love to have you join us. Thank you for being part of the ultimate Partner community, and I hope to see you this year at one of our events. [00:15:30] Vince Menzione: Thank you.

Stop losing the AI revenue multiplier game. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this episode, Jay McBain reveals why focusing solely on consumer AI hype is a massive mistake that causes businesses to miss the real opportunity: the 99% of business data currently sitting in cold storage. We discuss the critical shift toward “Agentic AI” and integrations, where the real money lies for partners—moving from a standard transaction to a $3 to $7 multiplier effect. Jay also issues a stark warning about the “book of failure” waiting for companies that refuse to adopt a platform mindset, explaining why you can’t hire your way out of the talent shortage and must embrace the seven-partner ecosystem to survive the next decade. https://youtu.be/RXRJW027Qz8 https://youtu.be/RXRJW027Qz8 Key Takeaways Partners can unlock a $3 to $7 multiplier on every dollar of Microsoft revenue by focusing on the full customer journey. 99% of the world’s business data is not yet trained into models, representing the massive “Agentic AI” opportunity. The talent shortage is forcing end customers to outsource because they cannot compete with hyperscalers for AI skills. Integration is now the number one buying criteria for modern customers, necessitating a platform approach. We are overestimating the AI change in two years but vastly underestimating the transformation coming in ten years. Your visible pipeline may be less than 10% of your total addressable market because you aren’t seeing the 28 moments before a sale. If you’re ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Agentic AI, AI Multiplier, Cold Storage Data, Business Integration, Jay McBain, Platform Economy, Ecosystem Strategy, Managed Services, Co-selling, Hyperscaler Partnerships, Talent Shortage, Magnificent Seven, Digital Transformation, 28 Moments, AI Governance. Transcript: [00:00:00] Jay McBain: And getting from one to two to $3 a multiplier. So if Microsoft wins a hundred thousand dollars, I win $300,000 at 75% margin. And a sticky customer that’s gonna continue to enrich every 30 days forever. [00:00:16] Vince Menzione: I want to double click here. You talked about ag agentic technology and ai. I just wanna go back in on this. [00:00:21] Vince Menzione: So where is the money? Where’s the real money for the partners that are, that are participating? Microsoft? We’ll talk to Microsoft about Frontier Firm in a little while, but is it on advisory? Is it on build? Is it on managed services or ongoing optimization? Of the, of the stack. Where, where is it? [00:00:36] Jay McBain: Yeah. All the above. [00:00:37] Vince Menzione: All of the above. [00:00:38] Jay McBain: So Microsoft is famous for, you know, $8 and 45 cents of multiplier. We’ve written probably three dozen of these reports. Just this year. So whether you’re in a cyber platform, whether you’re in a hyperscaler platform, big SaaS platform, the first thing the CEO does when they get on CNBC or they get, uh, on their keynote in Vegas is say, Hey, you know, you can make $7 and 5 cents. [00:01:01] Jay McBain: You can make $7 and 13 cents, and here’s where it’s. This percentage of it is in consulting advisory. This percentage is in design and architecture, implementation, integration, managed services. This is how much, it’s a small little slice in procurement. If you wanna resell, that’s fine, but here is the opportunity and there’s no customer on the planet that’s gonna outsource seven to one. [00:01:23] Vince Menzione: Right? [00:01:23] Jay McBain: You know, it’s not advisable that anyone hands over the keys. You have to have some insourced talent Absolutely. To keep the thing running. But what would’ve been in the past, maybe one to one, or you know, two to one, is quickly becoming three to one to say that I can’t find, as an end customer, the AI talent to do this. [00:01:43] Jay McBain: I can’t find the cyber talent. I can’t find the infrastructure talent. I, I can’t find the talent. Even if I did, I can’t compete with these magnificent seven. I can’t compete with these big partners in terms of what they can pay. So now my ability, and now a younger buyer, majority buyer, now being a millennial loves a team sport. [00:02:02] Jay McBain: So they don’t mind this outsourcing of talent where they need it, and that’s why there’s seven partners around the table. But in this multiplier effect, the biggest opportunity for partners is not a specific skill or not a specific part of the journey. It’s actually understanding this multiplier and better serving the customer. [00:02:20] Jay McBain: Through before, during, and after the transaction and getting from one to two to $3 a multiplier. So if Microsoft wins a hundred thousand dollars, I win $300,000 at 75% margin. And a sticky customer that’s gonna continue to enrich every 30 days forever. [00:02:38] Vince Menzione: I love that. Uh, we can talk all day about ai. There’s a couple things specifically though, but what is the one missed? [00:02:45] Vince Menzione: Conception that partners have about Agen, AI’s impact on go-to market? [00:02:50] Jay McBain: Well, the misconception I can broadly at this point is that all of the hype cycle in the first, you know, two to three years of build out has been all consumer. [00:02:58] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:02:59] Jay McBain: So, Nvidia being the richest company and you know, Elon Musk becoming the richest person and all the changes that are happening and you know, how, how the world’s mostly it’s a consumer story. [00:03:08] Vince Menzione: It is. [00:03:09] Jay McBain: You know, Chachi PT became the fastest growing product in history. And you know, to the point of having 850 million, you know, daily users. Crazy. You know, just in a couple of years we’ve all changed our behavior from going to do a search and getting a bunch of links and then clicking the links to try to find the answer to answer first. [00:03:25] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:03:26] Jay McBain: And you start to think now through the business side of it, 99% of world’s business data has yet to be trained or tuned into models. 83% of it sits in cold storage at the edge. So I, I always tell the story. I mean, probably the most likely story in our industry is when you get your flight canceled and now you’ve got this chat bot [00:03:45] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:03:45] Jay McBain: You know, that comes and cancels your flight and is very empathetic, you know, feels really bad for you, but it can’t do anything. [00:03:52] Vince Menzione: No. [00:03:53] Jay McBain: So what I would like as a consumer when you do that, is to go download my 53 years of flying and understand what kind of flyer I am. ’cause I could be the, you know, we’re sorry we canceled your flight. [00:04:05] Jay McBain: We’ve already got a Marriott night for you and an Uber waiting at the curb and we’ll have you back here at 5:00 AM for the next available flight. Or you happen to be like me. We’re gonna get you on a flight. You gotta run across the airport. But we got a flight, you know, waiting to go and that’ll get you about six hours away from your home and your kids. [00:04:24] Jay McBain: We already have a hertz rental waiting. Yeah. And you’re gonna drive that six hours, but you’re gonna be home, you know, to take your kids to school tomorrow. Exactly. So that’s the business data. And that goes to finance, that goes to pharmaceutical. I mean, it goes into every industry, but if that chat bot got access to the business data and being able to act on a richer set of data about you personally, and then became AG agentic. [00:04:46] Jay McBain: Again, I don’t want to go to Marriott. I don’t wanna go to Uber. I don’t wanna go to Hertz. There’s a thousand permutations in a canceled flight and I, and I, you know, wanna notify my family and there’s so many things going on that age Agentic work becomes everything, which I love it, by the way, in our partnership term is called integrations. [00:05:03] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:05:04] Jay McBain: Our buyers now in integration, first buyer, it’s their number one criteria and every company thinking through their adjacencies. Including technology companies have to be the most integrated of their set of competitors. [00:05:17] Vince Menzione: So we need to get this part right. [00:05:19] Jay McBain: We have to get this part right. [00:05:20] Vince Menzione: What do you think, what do you think the time horizon is for that? [00:05:23] Vince Menzione: When are we gonna, when are we gonna see that chat bot that comes back and says, Jay, I’ve rebooked your flight. I’ve got the Hertz rental car ready for you. I’ve notified Michelle and the kids, and here you go. [00:05:33] Jay McBain: Yeah. Well for me that’s a 10 year horizon. [00:05:36] Vince Menzione: Okay. [00:05:37] Jay McBain: I mean, the biggest problem is no airline right now. [00:05:39] Jay McBain: No company right now wants to open up their cold storage and, you know, forklift it up into. You know, a consumer level, large language model. Yeah. So the security isn’t set yet. The governance, the compliance, the risk, all the different things. Nobody wants to be first, uh, in, in that area. So we’re running little pilots. [00:05:59] Jay McBain: The pilots, you know, aren’t converting into production at the level we want. But that, that, that goes back to the Bill Gates quote. You know, we tended to overestimate what would happen in two years. Two years, but we’re absolutely underestimating what’s gonna happen in 10. [00:06:12] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:06:13] Jay McBain: This has been the fastest growing industry for 50. [00:06:15] Jay McBain: It’s going to be for the next 10 guaranteed, but probably for the next 20 to 50 as well. And, and this is that stage of how do you start to make these integrations? If you go to the platform slide, this is the, you know, I, I tried to think through the, what would the book read when, when 53% of companies that we know and love today fail. [00:06:36] Jay McBain: Somebody writes the book, you know, they invented the thing that killed them or they, you know, as mismanagement or whatever, it’s, you know, the book always starts, you blame the CEO for the first chapter. You blame the board fiduciary responsibility in the second chapter, but now you got like eight more chapters to write. [00:06:51] Jay McBain: I think the answer is here. [00:06:53] Vince Menzione: I [00:06:53] Jay McBain: agree. Winning in the AI era is platforms. Big platforms working with other platforms up on the upper right, the integrations. Yep. That’s the number one criteria. It’s the airline working with all the different pieces. It’s the real estate agent working with all the different pieces the bank working with. [00:07:11] Jay McBain: All our lives all become interconnected, and these agents start working side doors and back doors on our behalf. Before we ever know we need them before the flight’s even canceled. [00:07:20] Vince Menzione: Yeah. [00:07:21] Jay McBain: And then the seven partnerships, the services and channel partnerships. If you’re in cybersecurity, 91.6% of it goes through the channel. [00:07:30] Jay McBain: That’s how it’s transacted. You need channel partnerships, but you also need partnerships with the other six partners around the table. You’re not just gonna win without one reseller. You are gonna have to build the other partnerships. So to get to the two or three, that’s the services and channels you have to win In alliances, this is a big part of ultimate partnerships. [00:07:47] Vince Menzione: Yes. [00:07:47] Jay McBain: Is winning with the hyperscalers, winning with the SaaS companies, winning on these marketplaces, winning with the big cyber platforms, distribution platforms. These bigger platforms are starting to take shape and this is what they look like working well. And you could compete tooth and nail in the morning. [00:08:03] Jay McBain: And be best friends by the afternoon. [00:08:04] Vince Menzione: Your frenemies. [00:08:05] Jay McBain: Your frenemies. Yeah. And then finally it all comes to go to market. You got these 28 moments before a sale and somebody is earning and winning those moments. And in the majority of cases, you’re never gonna see these moments. And that’s why your pipeline is less than half of your TAM and maybe less than 10% of your tam. [00:08:23] Jay McBain: ’cause you just don’t have visibility to where your buyers are. But the more partners, the seven partners that you connect to. You’re gonna start to see them and the more technology and more agentic technology that you connect, you don’t want humans filling out deal registration forms. You don’t want humans calling other humans. [00:08:40] Jay McBain: You want all of this being shared. The more of this you do in go to market, the co-selling, the co-marketing, co-innovation, all of this comes together. This is the rest of the book. If the companies today in every industry aren’t driving a platform in their own industry. They’re going to probably fail. [00:08:58] Vince Menzione: Absolutely. You know, we talk about situational awareness in an account. You talk about the seven seats at the table. The customer is talking to all these companies. You may not know about it. You think you’re, you’re dominant in the account, and they’re relying on all these decision makers that I think you said 6.3 is the actual number, right? [00:09:13] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Uh, analysis wise, how many. Organizations are part of that trusted group. You need to go influence all of those. You need to build the co-develop co, co-create with those organizations as well. And you need to be thinking about the whole ecosystem. This ties into this conversation about the decade of the ecosystem. [00:09:30] Vince Menzione: You know, you’ve been talking about it since 2020, maybe a little bit before. I think you might’ve even in this podcast studio. It might have been one of the first times we talked about the decade of the ecosystem. It really feels like this is the moment that all of this comes together. Maybe this slide defines why organizations need to think ecosystem and not vendor channel, if you [00:09:49] Jay McBain: agree. [00:09:50] Jay McBain: Yeah. And there’s a couple of, you know, companies and more than a couple that kind of have this slide posted in the CEO’s office. [00:09:58] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Should be. [00:09:59] Jay McBain: Every [00:09:59] Vince Menzione: CEO should be, and uh, every CEO should see this. The Ultimate Partner Winter Retreat is gonna be here in the Boca Studio. This is the third year that we’re gonna be here in Boca. [00:10:10] Vince Menzione: This is always a favorite of our community members, our executive members, our sponsors and speakers. We’ll all be here in the studio, which is a really intimate. Setting, we can see upwards of 40, 50 people. Uh, we’ll be hosting an incredible dinner at the Boca Resort overlooking the golf course. That’s an incredible property. [00:10:32] Vince Menzione: And, uh, we’d love to have you join us. Thank you for being part of the ultimate Partner community, and I hope to see you this year at one of our events. Thank you.

Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this episode, we dive deep into Microsoft’s new “Frontier Firm” concept—a strategic framework designed to help organizations become AI-first. We explore the four key pillars of the success framework: enriching employee experiences, reinventing customer engagement, reshaping business processes, and bending the innovation curve. The discussion also covers critical updates from Microsoft Ignite, including the introduction of “IQs” (Work, Fabric, and Foundry) and the new Agent 365 for observability. Finally, we outline the massive opportunities for Azure partners, from core migration to building unified data platforms and deploying AI agents. Key Takeaways A Frontier Firm is an AI-first organization built on a four-pillar success framework. The four pillars are enriching employee experience, customer engagement, business process, and innovation. New “IQs” (Work, Fabric, Foundry) provide the intelligence layer for AI agents to operate effectively. Agent 365 was announced to provide security, identity, and observability for AI agents. Change management is just as critical as technology implementation for AI adoption. Azure partners have three main opportunities: migration, unified data platforms, and building AI apps. If you’re ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags: Frontier Firm framework, Microsoft AI strategy, Azure partner ecosystem, AI-first organization, enriching employee experiences, reinventing customer engagement, bending the innovation curve, Work IQ, Fabric IQ, Foundry IQ, Agent 365, AI observability, AI agents, Azure migration, unified data platform, Microsoft Ignite announcements, AI change management, Ultimate Partner winter retreat, Boca studio, ISV success, Azure incentives, tech leadership. https://youtu.be/ZbS61Kr6gGw?si=_ET6-Z5i2JYvFj1c Transcript: [00:00:00] Cyril Belikoff: AI is changing our daily operations. And how can, uh, on a day-to-day, uh, basis can those people get their heads around what AI is and then help them, um, you know, leverage ai more [00:00:16] Vince Menzione: talking about leadership, Microsoft’s leadership around frontier firms. How should partners think about frontier firms? [00:00:23] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah, it’s a great question. [00:00:25] Cyril Belikoff: Uh, in the last, you know, six months or so, we introduced, uh, this concept of a frontier firm, which is really around an organization that is AI first. Yeah. Uh, now of course that’s not new. Um, but really we wanted to try and leverage all the experiences that we’ve had with many, many customers and partners and put it into some sort of. [00:00:47] Cyril Belikoff: Success framework and provide sort of, uh, uh, ingredients, if you will, on how to best get there. And so we came up with the success framework for Becoming Frontier, uh, in, in four areas. One is about, uh, enriching employee experiences, reinventing customer engagement, reshaping business process, and bending the innovation curve. [00:01:07] Cyril Belikoff: And if you look at any of the innovation that’s happened around AI and, and, and becoming AI first, um. All of the projects that we’ve done, the thousands, the tens of thousands of projects on a LA we’ve done have fallen into one of those four categories. So we really, we, we spoke about the success framework and how we can help customers, you know, become frontier. [00:01:28] Vince Menzione: Take us through it one more time. Maybe just a, a, a few, a little comment on each one of those four, because I think, yeah. Every single one of ’em standing on their own is so important for organizations. [00:01:36] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah. That if you really think about it, it’s about how are we driving business outcomes. So the first one is en enriching employee experiences. [00:01:44] Cyril Belikoff: Nice. So each of us is an employee of some organization. And how is that organization enriching that experience, leveraging AI so that individuals can do great work, uh, whether they’re a developer. Or a marketer like myself or a salesperson or someone in HR or finance, AI is changing our daily operations. [00:02:06] Cyril Belikoff: And how can, uh, on a day-to-day, uh, basis can those people get their heads around what AI is and then help them, um, you know, leverage AI more? Then there’s reinventing customer engagement that’s really about. Our, our customer’s customer. And so how do we rethink that, uh, help them rethink those engagements with ai. [00:02:28] Cyril Belikoff: The third is reshaping business process. Of course, uh, we know about the opportunity with AI and agents and how we can streamline process, you know, remove hurdle, move, remove friction, make it faster and easier. Then the final is about bending the innovation curve, and that’s really about the new wave of, of experiences and applications and maybe even business models that might come up for our customers and how we help them with ai. [00:02:54] Cyril Belikoff: So, uh, like I mentioned, this concept of becoming frontier is relatively new, but we have the success framework on those four areas and, and deep experience in those four areas where we’ve helped, you know, thousands and thousands of customers over the last three or four years. [00:03:09] Vince Menzione: So you lead the Azure partner business. [00:03:11] Vince Menzione: How do you think about product strategy and can you share more about Azure partner opportunities specifically? [00:03:21] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah. Um, I’ll take a little, a, a minor step back and talk just more broad, more broadly about, uh, Microsoft and then I’ll drill into Azure. It’s a great question. I love Azure. As you know, I’m Yes. [00:03:32] Cyril Belikoff: Um, part of the Azure team, um, but I, I mentioned becoming Frontier and at. At, um, at Ignite, we announced some company-wide announcements around products that we have available to help fulfill on those promises of becoming Frontier. Um, we announced three, what we call IQs, a work iq, a Fabric IQ, and a Foundry iq. [00:03:54] Cyril Belikoff: Those are really the intelligence within the organization that your AI and agents can leverage as a platform to get smarter. So Work IQ is essentially the knowledge about your employees and how your employees work. Um, of course, that’s, uh, confidential and proprietary to you, so no one else gets to see it. [00:04:12] Cyril Belikoff: Yeah. But we provide you with the ability to leverage that information so that employees can, you know, work better. Then Fabric iq, that’s the how your business operates. Uh, so your business processes and then Foundry iq, that’s the sort of business knowledge, how, you know, different types of knowledge, whether it’s a database or a web storage or. [00:04:31] Cyril Belikoff: Document storage and how you can curate that so that you can have AI and agents sort of get smarter in the organization. Nice. And then of course, observability. You want to be able to observe all of this as an organization. AI can do interesting things and so you want to, you know, govern and observe. And so we announce this thing called Agent 365. [00:04:49] Cyril Belikoff: They’ve got a lot of news, which, um, just think about that as a, um. Like Microsoft 365 provides security and identity for a human agent. 365 does that for agents. So of course you want to make sure that agents, uh, have access to some things, not everything. They have an identity so you can track them and what they’ve, and what they’ve done on your behalf. [00:05:12] Cyril Belikoff: Um, and, uh, there’s observability in terms of, you know, how they operate. So we made a ton of product announcements to serve how we are helping customers becoming frontier. So lots of great new and, and lots of opportunity. ’cause as you, as you know, um, in ai it’s not only about the technology implementation or project identification, there’s a lot of change management there, um, in, in, in the technical systems, but in humans like. [00:05:40] Cyril Belikoff: We all workers today, and we, we operate our daily work in a certain way. In order to operate differently with ai, we have to train ourselves and there’s a bunch of change management opportunity for partners in addition to the technology adopt, uh, adoption implementation opportunity. So that’s sort of at the all up Microsoft level for Azure. [00:06:01] Cyril Belikoff: Obviously Azure’s, you know, fabric and foundry I mentioned earlier, that’s part of Azure and so yeah. Azure is the AI foundation, but we have other areas that customers are looking to us for. First is, you know, core migration and modernization. There are many customers that have plenty on premises estate and in order to Yeah. [00:06:19] Cyril Belikoff: Put AI around their data, it needs to be in the cloud. Exactly. Um, and so we’re still working with customers to migrate and modernize their infrastructure and then build a unified data platform. Uh, sort of the next area. Once they get the, their data in the cloud, they wanna stitch it together, whether it’s structured data or unstructured data into one sort of experience. [00:06:41] Cyril Belikoff: And then finally, obviously you wanna build AI apps and agents on top of all of that. So those are three major areas and tons of opportunities for partners, you know, in those areas. Uh, through things like our incentive programs, uh, Azure accelerates our, our, um, program for software companies or ISVs IV success, all layering out incentives, programs, and assistance to help customers in those three or four areas. [00:07:06] Vince Menzione: The Ultimate Partner Winter Retreat is gonna be here in the Boca Studio. This is the third year that we’re gonna be here in Boca. This is always a favorite of our community members, our executive members. Our sponsors and speakers, we’ll all be here in the studio, which is a really intimate setting. We can see it upwards of 40, 50 people. [00:07:29] Vince Menzione: Uh, we’ll be hosting an incredible dinner at the Boca Resort overlooking the golf course. That’s an incredible property. And, uh, we’d love to have you join us. Thank you for being part of the ultimate Partner community, and I hope to see you this year at one of our events. Thank you.

Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX: https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this high-impact podcast episode to kick off 2026, Vince Menzione sits down with Jay McBain (Canalys/Informa) to decode the tectonic shifts reshaping the technology ecosystem. Jay reveals why the tech economy is forecasting double-digit growth while the broader economy lags, introducing a “Tale of Two Cities” where direct infrastructure sales are booming but partner influence is more critical than ever. He explains the drop in channel transact share to 66.7% and why the “96% Partner Assist” is the new metric for success. Jay also details the shift away from traditional “Gold/Silver/Bronze” programs toward point systems that recognize partners at every one of the “28 moments” in the customer journey, from influence to long-term retention. Key Takeaways The tech industry is forecast to grow 10.2% in 2026, outpacing the global economy’s 2.7% growth. Channel transact share has dropped from 75% to a forecast of 66.7% as infrastructure deals go direct. Nvidia and the “Magnificent Seven” are driving a massive direct infrastructure build-out for the next era. Microsoft measures a 96% “Partner Assist” rate, with up to seven partners involved in every deal. 80% of customers now prioritize partner certifications and competencies over relationships when choosing partners. The number one request from partners is to be recognized for value across all 28 moments, not just the point of sale. If you’re ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags: Jay McBain, Canalys, Informa Tech, Partner Assist, 28 Moments, Tech Growth 2026, Channel Strategy, Nvidia, Infrastructure Buildout, Partner Economics, Microsoft Ecosystem, AWS, Direct Sales, Indirect Sales, Partner Influence, Multiplier Effect, Customer Journey, Partner Programs, Tech Economy, Ecosystem Orchestration. https://youtu.be/ntogEr6mjKg?si=_AaBPBfv9KcMRA9D Transcript: [00:00:00] Jay McBain: By the way, marketplaces, the massive growth in marketplaces for everyone that doesn’t own the marketplace is also an indirect sale. It should be helping these numbers. Yeah, so, but there’s one company that’s driving and happens to be the most valuable company in the world right now. [00:00:15] Vince Menzione: Let’s start off with the first, my burning question I have first, let’s cover it first. [00:00:21] Vince Menzione: If you had a sum up 2026 for partners in one sentence. What is it and what are people still underestimating? [00:00:29] Jay McBain: Yeah, it’s one, one word is probably opportunity. Opportunity. Um, so we look around the world, uh, the world economy without technology in it is gonna grow at 2.7%. That’s about $120 trillion with technology in it, technology industry, we’re forecasting to grow by double digits. [00:00:47] Jay McBain: Amazing. You know, in a world that’s growing at two, uh, we’re expecting 10.2%. Growth. And this industry, as you know, is surrounded by partners. Yes. And there are opportunities in hardware, in software, in services, in telco, all the different parts of the customer’s budget. And to look through the double digits though, I mean the, the extension of the sentence is, it’s a tale of two cities. [00:01:11] Jay McBain: Yeah. I was gonna ask you about this. Police do. There isn’t an opportunity in every slice. You know, some of the slices are shrinking by single digits. Some of them are growing by low single digits, but some of them are in the 20, 30, 40% growth range. And this is what partners are starting to think, these tectonic shifts that are happening, the ultimate partnerships that are happening are in very specific places that you kicked off this session talking about. [00:01:35] Vince Menzione: Yeah. So I would love to di dive in here because we have your, we have your slide up behind us. In fact, in talking about this $6.1 trillion economy around te uh, tech and telco and this opportunity. So, you know, we’re, there are gonna be winners and losers right in, in terms of these, uh, these segments or slices of the economy. [00:01:55] Vince Menzione: We can talk about that now. I, I think maybe it would be a good idea to talk about both the channel and, and why the par the channel plays such a big role in this growth. And then talk about what the winners and losers are gonna be. [00:02:07] Jay McBain: Yeah, I mean, broader. Um, actually if we go to the next, uh, slide, there is, um, a declining number and in the world economy that 120 trillion, 75% of it. [00:02:20] Jay McBain: Uh, moves indirectly. You bought your last car from a dealer. Yeah. You bought your last, uh, TV from a retailer, you know, peanut butter from a grocer, that type of thing. But the agencies, the brokers, the resellers, the retailers, the franchisees, the gas stations, pharmacies, grocery, all the different parts of the 27 industries, you know, play an incredible role. [00:02:40] Jay McBain: Our industry was at 75, not just three years ago. Wow. It dropped to 73.2. Two years ago, down to 70.1 last year, and this year’s forecast to be 66.7, so it’s dropping by about 3% each year and it’s this how money changes hands. Yeah. By the way, marketplaces, the massive growth in marketplaces for everyone that doesn’t own the marketplace is also an indirect sale. [00:03:05] Jay McBain: It should be helping these numbers. Yeah, so, but there’s one company that’s driving and happens to be the most valuable company in the world right now, Nvidia. Yeah. And the broader data center buildup mostly on consumer side, but this infrastructure data center build out globally happening right now is mostly happening direct. [00:03:22] Jay McBain: Yeah. There are the magnificent seven who are spending hundreds of billions of dollars each. On these chips and on this, uh, capability and capacity for this next 20 year era. And this is not a resell gain. They’re not buying through distribution and not buying through a reseller. And that’s where you talk about haves and have nots. [00:03:40] Jay McBain: You talk about this economy that, you know, Nvidia for example, was growing at triple digits, quarter in, quarter out, you know, becoming the most valuable company. And it’s not. A traditional technology opportunity, right? There isn’t managed service providers inside these data centers. There isn’t technology folks like VARs and system integrators in plugging in the equipment. [00:04:02] Jay McBain: Yeah. So we gotta watch and, and look at where this next shift takes us and where this multiplier opportunity wraps around it. So that’s the second number here. 96%. Which hasn’t changed. This is a number by the way, that Microsoft measures Yes. Understand. And, and Microsoft looks at it and, you know, second most valuable company in the world measures every deal they’re in and then have been for decades. [00:04:26] Jay McBain: And they measure this 96% of partner assist upwards of seven partners in every one of their deals. And looking at this partner assist number is what drives them. And in Microsoft’s case. You know, perhaps without a better product price or uh, promotion than their lead competitor. AWS, they’ve outgrown them for 26 straight quarters. [00:04:45] Jay McBain: Yes. And they point to place as the reason why that two, three, maybe even four of those seven partners may be leading with Microsoft in critical moments. And so every company, large, medium, and small, look at this partner assist number. And this is where we take that ecosystem conversation. [00:05:02] Vince Menzione: So with 96% partner assist, why do partners touch, touching, everything still feel invisible in many cases. [00:05:11] Vince Menzione: And what’s the one move that they, they make? Or need to make to make them undeniable to [00:05:15] Jay McBain: vendors in 2026? Yeah, I mean, this is a long legacy. There’s 44 years of legacy of being measured at the point of sale where programs were built and paid at the point of sale. Yeah. Assuming you did a bunch of stuff like consulting and design and advisory before the point of sale, assuming you’re gonna stay after the sale and get the renewal and get the upsell, cross sell, and enrichment, there was this assumption, but you were really recognized only at one moment. [00:05:41] Jay McBain: And when we did the survey last year across, you know, 20,000 partners around the world, the number one thing they’re asking vendors for now. Is to recognize, measure monitor me at every moment. Mm-hmm. 28 of them before the sale every 30 days. Forever after the sale. Yep. At the point of sale, the provisioning, the procurement, all the pieces of where we add value. [00:06:02] Jay McBain: And now Microsoft was one of the leaders that came out with a point system over three years ago to say, we’re gonna start measuring and, you know, spreading the program dollars around a little bit like peanut butter. There’s over 400 companies now who have followed suit. You know, Cisco goes live in two weeks, so we’re in this mode now where the world is changing of economics, of partnering. [00:06:23] Jay McBain: It’s changing how recognition happens and it’s the number one thing partners want. [00:06:27] Vince Menzione: Yeah, we’re moving away from the gold, silver, bronze, uh, days of the past and, and tying ’em to these moments. In particular, the Ultimate Partner Winter retreat is gonna be here in the Boca Studio. This is the third year. [00:06:41] Vince Menzione: That we’re gonna be here in Boca. This is always a favorite of our community members, our executive members, our sponsors and speakers. We’ll all be here in the studio, which is a really intimate setting. We can see it upwards of 40, 50 people. We’ll be hosting an incredible dinner at the Boca Resort overlooking the golf course. [00:07:01] Vince Menzione: That’s an incredible property and uh, we’d love to have you join us. Thank you for being part of the ultimate Partner community, and I hope to see you this year at one of our events. Thank you.

Welcome back to the Ultimate Guide to Partnering® Podcast. AI agents are your next customers. Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/  Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this exclusive interview, Vince Menzione sits down with Darryl Peek, Vice President for Partner Sales (Public Sector) at Elastic, to decode how Elastic achieved the rare “triple crown”—winning Partner of the Year across Microsoft, Amazon, and Google Cloud simultaneously. Darryl breaks down the engineering-first approach that makes Elastic sticky with hyperscalers, reveals the rigorous metrics behind their partner health scorecard, and shares his personal “one-page strategy” for aligning mission, vision, and execution. From leveraging generative AI for cleaner sales hygiene to the timeless lesson of the “Acre of Diamonds,” this conversation offers a masterclass in building high-performance partner ecosystems in the public sector and beyond. https://youtu.be/__GE0r2fPuk Key Takeaways Elastic achieved “Pinnacle” status by aligning engineering roadmaps directly with hyperscaler innovations to become essential infrastructure. Successful public sector sales require a dual approach: leveraging resellers for contract access while driving domain-specific co-sell motions. Partner relationships outperform contracts; consistency in communication is more valuable than only showing up for renewals. Effective partner organizations track “influence” revenue just as rigorously as direct bookings to capture the full value of SI relationships. Generative AI can automate sales hygiene, turning scattered meeting notes into actionable CRM data and reducing friction for sales teams. The “Acre of Diamonds” philosophy reminds leaders that the greatest opportunities often lie within their current ecosystem, not in distant new markets. If you’re ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Keywords: Elastic, Darryl Peek, public sector sales, hyperscaler partnership, Microsoft Partner of the Year, AWS Partner of the Year, Google Cloud Partner, partner ecosystem strategy, co-sell motion, partner metrics, channel sales, government contracting, Carahsoft, generative AI in sales, sales hygiene, Russell Conwell, Acre of Diamonds, open source search, observability, security SIM, vector search, retrieval augmented generation, LLM agnostic, partner enablement, influence revenue, channel booking, SI relationships, strategic alliances. Transcript: Darryl Peek Audio Episode [00:00:00] Darryl Peek: I say, I tell my team from time to time, the difference between contacts and contracts is the R and that’s the relationship. So if you’re not building the relationship, then how do you expect that partner to want to lean in? Don’t just show up when you have a contract. Don’t just show up when you have a renewal. [00:00:13] Darryl Peek: Make sure that you are reaching out and letting them know what is happening. Don’t just talk to me when you need a renewal, right? When you’re at end of quarter and you want me to bring a deal forward, [00:00:23] Vince Menzione: welcome to the Ultimate Guide to Partnering. I’m Vince Menzi. Own your host, and my mission is to help leaders like you achieve your greatest results through successful partnering. [00:00:34] Vince Menzione: We just came off Ultimate Partner live at Caresoft Training Center in Reston, Virginia. Over two days, we gathered top leaders to tackle the real shifts shaping our industry. If you weren’t in the room, this episode brings you right to the edge of what’s next. Let’s dive in. So we have another privilege, an incredible partner, another like we call these, if you’ve heard our term, pinnacle. [00:01:00] Vince Menzione: I think it’s a term that’s not widely used, but we refer to Pinnacle as the partners that have achieved the top rung. They’ve become partners of the year. And our next presenter, our next interview is going to be with an organization. And a person that represents an organization that has been a pinnacle partner actually for all three Hyperscalers, which is really unusual. [00:01:24] Vince Menzione: Elastic has been partner of the Year award winner across Microsoft, Amazon, and Google Cloud, so very interesting. And Darrell Peak, who is the leader for the public sector organization, he’s here in the Washington DC area, was kind enough. Elastic is a sponsor event, and Darryl’s been kind enough to join me for a discussion about what it takes to be a Pinnacle partner. [00:01:47] Vince Menzione: So incredibly well. Excited to welcome you, Darryl. Thank you, sir. Good to have you. I love you. I love your smile, man. You got an incredible smile. Thank you. Thank you, Vince. Thank you. So Darryl, I probably didn’t do it any justice, but I was hoping you could take us through your role and responsibilities at Elastic, which is an incredible organization. [00:02:08] Vince Menzione: Alright. Yeah, [00:02:09] Darryl Peek: absolutely. So Darrell Peak vice President for partner sales for the US public sector at Elastic. I’ve been there about two and a half years. Responsible for our partner relationships across all partner types, whether that’s the system integrators, resellers, MSPs, OEMs, distribution Hyperscalers, and our Technology Alliance partners. [00:02:26] Darryl Peek: And those are partners that aren’t built on the Elastic platform. In regards to how my partner team interacts with our team. Our ecosystem. We are essentially looking to further and lean in with our partners in order for them to, one, understand what Elastic does since we’re such a diverse tool, but also work with our field to understand what are their priorities and how do they identify the right partners for the right requirements. [00:02:50] Darryl Peek: In regards to what Elastic is and what it does elastic is a solution that is actually founded on search and we’re an open source company. And one of the things that I actually did when I left the government, so I worked for the government for a number of years. I left, went and worked for Salesforce, then worked for Google ran their federal partner team and then came over to Elastic because I wanted to. [00:03:11] Darryl Peek: Understand what it meant to be at an open source company. Being at an open source company is quite interesting ’cause you’re competing against yourself. [00:03:17] Vince Menzione: Yeah, that’s true. [00:03:18] Darryl Peek: So it’s pretty interesting. But elastic was founded in 2012 as a search company. So when you talk about search, we are the second most used platform behind Google. [00:03:28] Darryl Peek: So many of you have already used Elastic. Maybe on your way here, if you use Uber and Lyft, that is elastic. That is helping you get here. Oh, that is interesting. If you use Netflix, if you use wikipedia.com, booking.com, eBay, home Depot, all of those are search capabilities. That Elastic is happening to power in regards to what else we do. [00:03:47] Darryl Peek: We also do observability, which is really around application monitoring, logging, tracing, and metrics. So we are helping your operations team. Pepsi is a customer as well as Cisco. Wow. And then the last thing that we do is security when we’re a SIM solution. So when we talk about sim, we are really looking to protect networks. [00:04:03] Darryl Peek: So we all, we think that it’s a data problem. So with that data problem, what we’re trying to do is not only understand what is happening in the network, but also we are helping with threat intelligence, endpoint and cloud security. So all those elements together is what Elastic does. And we only do it two ways. [00:04:18] Darryl Peek: We’re one platform and we can be deployed OnPrem and in the cloud. So that’s a little bit about me and the company. Hopefully it was clear, [00:04:24] Vince Menzione: I’ve had elastic people on stage. You’ve done, that’s the best answer I’ve had. What does Elastic do? I used to hear all this hyperbole and what? [00:04:32] Vince Menzione: What? Now I really understand what you do is an organiz. And the name of the company was Elasticsearch. [00:04:36] Darryl Peek: It was [00:04:37] Vince Menzione: elastic at one time when I first. Worked with you. It was Elasticsearch. [00:04:40] Darryl Peek: Absolutely. Yeah. So many moons ago used to be called the Elk Stack and it stood for three things. E was the Elasticsearch which is a search capability. [00:04:48] Darryl Peek: L is Logstash, which is our logging capability. And Cabana is essentially our visualization capability. So it was called Elk. But since we’ve acquired so many companies and built so much capability into the platform, we can now call it the elastic. Platform. [00:05:00] Vince Menzione: So talk to me about your engagement with the hyperscalers. [00:05:02] Vince Menzione: You’ve been partner of the Year award winner with all three, right? I mentioned that, and you were, you worked for Google for a period of time. Yes. So tell us about, like, how does that work? What does that engagement look like? And why do you get chosen as partner of the year? What are the things that stand out when you’re working with these hyperscalers [00:05:19] Darryl Peek: and with that we are very fortunate to be recognized. [00:05:23] Darryl Peek: So many of the organizations that are out there are doing some of the same capabilities that we do, but they can’t claim that they won a part of the year for all three hyperscalers in the same year. We are able to do that because we believe in the power of partnership, not only from a technology perspective, but also from a sales perspective. [00:05:39] Darryl Peek: So we definitely lean in with our partnerships, so having our engineers talk, having our product teams talk, and making sure that we’re building capabilities that actually integrate within the cloud service providers. And also consistently building a roadmap that aligns with the innovation that the cloud service providers are also building towards. [00:05:56] Darryl Peek: And then making sure that we’re a topic of discussion. So elastic. From a search capability, we do semantic search, vector search, but also retrieval augmented generation, which actually is LLM Agnostic. So when you say LLM Agnostic, whether you want to use Gemini, Claude or even Chad, GBT, those things are something that Elastic can integrate in, but it actually helps reduce the likelihood of hallucination. [00:06:18] Darryl Peek: So when we’re building that kind of solution, the cloud service provider’s you’re making it easy for us, and when you make it easy, you become very attractive and therefore you’re. Likely gonna come. So it becomes [00:06:28] Vince Menzione: sticky in that regard. Very sticky. So it sounds like very much an engineer, a lot of emphasis on the engineering aspects of the business. [00:06:35] Vince Menzione: I know you’re an engineer by background too, right? So the engineering aspects of the business means that you’re having alignment with the engineering organizations of those companies at a very deep level. [00:06:44] Darryl Peek: Absolutely. So I’m [00:06:45] Vince Menzione: here. [00:06:45] Darryl Peek: Yeah. And being at Elastic has been pretty amazing. So coming from Google, we had so many different solutions, so many different SKUs, but Elastic releases every eight weeks. [00:06:54] Darryl Peek: So right before you start to understand the last release, the next release is coming out and we’re already at 9.2 and we just released 9.0 in May. So it’s really blazing fast on the capability that we’re really pushing the market, but it’s really hard to make sure that we get it in front of our partners. [00:07:10] Darryl Peek: So when we talk about our partner enablement strategy, we’re just trying to make sure that we get the right information in front of the right partners at the right time, so this way they can best service their customers. [00:07:19] Vince Menzione: So let’s talk about partner strategy. Alyssa Fitzpatrick was on stage with me at our last event, and she Alyssa’s fantastic. [00:07:25] Vince Menzione: She is incredible. Yes, she is. She was a former colleague at Microsoft Days. Yes. And then she, we had a really interesting conversation. About what it takes, like being in, in a company and then working with the partners in general. And you have, I’m sure you have a lot of the similarities in how you have to engage with these organizations. [00:07:42] Vince Menzione: You’re working across the hyperscalers, you’re also working with the ecosystem too. Yes. ’cause the delivery, you have delivery partners as well. Absolutely. So tell us more about that. [00:07:50] Darryl Peek: So we kinda look at it from a two, two ways from the pre-sales motion and then the post-sales. From the pre-sales side. [00:07:56] Darryl Peek: What we’re trying to do is really maximize our, not only working with partners, because within public sector, you need to get access to customers through contract vehicles. So if you want to get access to some, for instance, the VA or through GSA or others, you have to make sure you’re aligned with the right partners who have access to. [00:08:12] Darryl Peek: That particular agency, but also you want domain expertise. So as you’re working with those system integrators, you wanna make sure that they have capability that aligns. So whether it is a security requirement, you wanna work with someone who specializes in security, observability and search. So that’s the way that we really look at our partner ecosystem, but those who are interested in working with us. [00:08:30] Darryl Peek: Because everybody doesn’t necessarily have a emphasis on working with a new technology partner, [00:08:36] Vince Menzione: right? [00:08:36] Darryl Peek: So what we’re trying to do is saying how do we build programs, incentives and sales plays that really does align and strike the interest of that particular partner? So when we talk about it I tell my team, you have to, my grandfather to say, plan your work and work your plan. And if you fail a plan, you plan to fail. So being able to not only have a strong plan in place, but then execute against that plan, check against that plan as you go through the fiscal year, and then see how you come out at the end of the fiscal year to see are we making that progress? [00:09:01] Darryl Peek: But on the other side of it, and what I get stressed about with my sales team and saying what does partners bring to us? So where are those partner deal registrations? What is the partner source numbers? How are we creating more pipeline? And that is where we’re now saying, okay, how can we navigate and how can we make it easier? [00:09:17] Darryl Peek: And how can we reduce friction in order for the partner to say, okay, elastic’s easy to work with. I can see value in, oh, by the way, I can make some money with. [00:09:25] Vince Menzione: So take us through, have there been examples of areas where you’ve had to like, break through to this other side in terms of growing the partner ecosystem? [00:09:33] Vince Menzione: What’s worked, what hasn’t worked? Yes, I’d love to learn more about that. [00:09:36] Darryl Peek: I’ll say that and I tell my team one, you partner program is essential, right? If you don’t have an attractive partner program in regards to how they come on board, how they’re incentivized the right amount of margin, they won’t even look at you. [00:09:49] Darryl Peek: The second thing is really how do you engage? So a lot of things start with relationships. I think partnerships are really about relationships. I say I tell my team from time to time, the difference between contacts and contracts is the R and that’s the relationship. So if you’re not building the relationship, then how do you expect that partner to want to lean in? [00:10:07] Darryl Peek: Don’t just show up when you have a contract. Don’t just show up when you have a renewal. Make sure that you are reaching out and letting them know what is happening. I like the what Matt brought up in saying, okay, talk to me when you have a win. Talk to me when you have something to talk about. [00:10:22] Darryl Peek: Don’t just talk to me when you need a renewal. When you’re at end the quarter and you want me to bring a deal forward, that doesn’t help ab absolutely. [00:10:28] Vince Menzione: So engineering organizations, sales organizations, what are, what does a healthy partnership look like for you? [00:10:35] Darryl Peek: So I look at metrics a lot and we use a number of tools and I know folks are using tools out there. [00:10:41] Darryl Peek: I won’t name any tools for branding purposes, but in regards to how we look at tools. So some things that we measure closely. Of course it’s our partner source numbers, so partner source, bookings, and pipeline. We look at our partner attached numbers and pipeline as well as the amount or percentage of partner attached business that we have in regards to our overall a CV number. [00:11:00] Darryl Peek: We also look at co-sell numbers, so therefore we are looking at not only how. A partner is coming to us, but how is a partner helping us in closing the deal even though they didn’t bring us the deal? We’re also looking at our cloud numbers and saying what amount of deals and how much business are we doing with our cloud service providers? [00:11:15] Darryl Peek: Because of course we wanna see that number go up year over year. We wanna actually help with that consumption number because not only are we looking at it from a SaaS perspective, but also if the customer has to commit we can help burn that down as well. We also look at influence numbers. [00:11:27] Darryl Peek: Now, one of the harder things to do within a technology business is. Capturing all that si goodness. And saying how do I reflect the SI if they’re not bringing me the deal? And I can’t attribute that amount of deal to that particular partner, right? And the way that we do that is we just tag them to the influence. [00:11:44] Darryl Peek: So we’re able to now track influence. And also the M-S-P-O-E-M work that we are also tracking and also we’re tracking the royalties. And lastly is the professional service work that we do with those partners. So we’re looking to go up into the right where we start them out at our select level, we go to our premier level and then our elite level. [00:12:00] Darryl Peek: But left and to the right, I say you gotta go from zero to one, one to five, five to 10, and then 10 to 25. So if we can actually see that progression. That is where we’re really starting to see health in the partnership, but also the executive alignment is really important. So when our CEO is able to meet with the fellow CEO of the co partner company that is really showing how we are progressing, but also our VPs and others that are engaged. [00:12:20] Darryl Peek: So those are things that we really do measure. We do have a health score card and also, we track accreditations, we track certifications as well as training outcomes based on our sales place. [00:12:30] Vince Menzione: Wow. There’s a lot of metrics there. Yeah. So you didn’t bring, you didn’t bring any slides with that out? [00:12:35] Darryl Peek: Oh, no. I’m not looking at slides, by the way. [00:12:40] Vince Menzione: Let’s talk about marketplace. [00:12:42] Darryl Peek: All right? [00:12:42] Vince Menzione: Because we’ve had a lot of conversations about marketplace. We’ve got both vendors up here talking about marketplace and the importance of marketplace, right? You’ve been a Marketplace Award winner. We haven’t really talked about that, like that motion per se. [00:12:55] Vince Menzione: I’d love to s I’d love to hear from you like how you, a, what you had to overcome to get to marketplace, what the marketplace motion looks like for your organization, what a marketplace first motion looks like. ’cause a lot of your cut a. Are all your customers requiring a lot of direct selling effort or is it some of it through Marketplace? [00:13:14] Vince Menzione: Like how does it, how does that work for you? [00:13:15] Darryl Peek: So Elastic is a global organization. Yeah. So we’re, 40 different countries. So it depends on where we’re talking. So if we talk about our international business, which is our A PJ and EMEA business we are seeing a lot more marketplace and we’re seeing that those direct deals with customers. [00:13:28] Darryl Peek: Okay. And we’re talking about our mirror business. A significant amount goes through marketplace and where our customers are transacting with the marketplace and are listing. On the marketplace within public sector, it’s more of a resell motion. Okay. So we are working with our resellers. [00:13:39] Darryl Peek: So we work our primary distribution partner is Carahsoft. So you heard from Craig earlier. Yes. We have a strong relationship with Carahsoft and definitely a big fan of this organization. But in regards to how we do that and how we track it we are looking at better ways to, track that orchestration and consumption numbers in order to see not only what customers we’re working with, but how can we really accelerate that motion and really get those leads and transactions going. [00:14:03] Vince Menzione: Very cool. Very cool. And I think part of the reason why in, in the government or public sector space it has a lot to do with the commitments are different. Absolutely. So it’s not government agencies aren’t able to make the same level of commitments that, private sector organizations were able to make, so they were able to the Mac or Microsoft parlance and also a AWS’s parlance. [00:14:23] Vince Menzione: Yeah, [00:14:24] Darryl Peek: definitely a different dynamic. Yeah. And especially within the public sector. ’cause we have Gov Cloud to work with, right? That’s right. So we’re working with Microsoft or we’re working with AWS, they have their Gov cloud and then we Google, they don’t have a Gov cloud, but we still have to work with them differently. [00:14:35] Darryl Peek: Yeah. Within that space. That’s [00:14:36] Vince Menzione: right. That’s right. So it makes the motion a little bit differently there. So I think we talked through some of this. I just wanna make sure we cover our points [00:14:43] Darryl Peek: here. One thing I’ll do an aside, you talked about the acre of diamonds. I’m a big fan of that story. [00:14:47] Vince Menzione: Yeah, let’s talk about Russ Con. Yeah, [00:14:49] Darryl Peek: let’s talk about it. Do you all know about the Acre Diamonds? Have you all heard that story before? No. You have some those in the audience. [00:14:55] Vince Menzione: I, you know what, let’s talk about it. All [00:14:56] Darryl Peek: See, I’m from Philadelphia. [00:14:57] Vince Menzione: I didn’t know you were a family. My daughter went to Temple University. [00:14:59] Vince Menzione: Ah, [00:15:00] Darryl Peek: okay. That’s all I know. So Russell Conwell. So he was, a gentleman out of the Philadelphia area and he went around town to raise money and he wanted to raise money because he believed that there was a promise within a specific area. And as he continued to raise this money, he would tell a story. [00:15:14] Darryl Peek: And basically it was a story about a farmer in Africa. And the farmer in Africa, to make it really short was essentially looking to be become very wealthy. And because he wanted to become very wealthy, he believed that selling his farm and going off to a long distant land was the primary way for him to find diamonds. [00:15:28] Darryl Peek: And this farmer didn’t sold us. Sold his place, then went off to to this foreign land, and he ended up dying. And people thought that was the end of the story, but there was another farmer who bought that land and one time this big, and they called him the ot, came to the door and said you mind if I have some tea with you? [00:15:43] Darryl Peek: He said, all right, come on in. Have a drink. And as he had the drink, he looked upon the mantle and his mouth dropped. And then the farmer said what’s wrong? What do you say? He says, do you know what that is? No. He said no. Do you know what that is? He says, no. He said, that’s the biggest diamond I’ve ever seen, and the farmer goes. [00:16:01] Darryl Peek: That’s weird because there’s a bunch right in the back where I go grab my fruits and crops every day. So the idea of the acre diamonds and sometimes that you don’t need to go off to a far off land. It is actually sometimes right under your feet, and that is a story that helped fund the starting of Temple University. [00:16:16] Vince Menzione: I’m gonna need to take you at every single event so you can tell this story again. That’s an awesome job. Oh, I love it. And yeah, they founded a Temple University. Yeah. Which has become an incredible university. My daughter, like I said, my daughter’s a graduate, so we’re Temple fan. That’s great story. [00:16:31] Vince Menzione: That is a very cool, I didn’t realize you were a Philadelphia guy too, so that is awesome. Go birds. Go birds. All right, good. So let’s talk, I think we talked a little bit about your ecosystem approach, but maybe just a little bit more on this, like you said, like a lot of data, a lot of metrics but also a lot of these organizations also have to under understand the engineering side of things. [00:16:53] Vince Menzione: Oh, yeah. There’s a tremendous amount to become. Not everybody could just show up one day and become an elastic partner [00:16:58] Darryl Peek: absolutely. Absolutely. So take us [00:16:59] Vince Menzione: through that process. [00:17:00] Darryl Peek: Yeah. So one of the things that we are trying to mature and we have matured is our partner go to market. [00:17:06] Darryl Peek: So in order to join our partner ecosystem, you have to sign ’em through our partner portal. You have to sign our indirect reseller agreement. ’cause we do sell primarily within the public sector through distribution. And we only go direct if it is by exception. So you have to get justification through myself as well as our VP for public sector. [00:17:21] Darryl Peek: But we really do try to make sure that we can aggregate this because one thing that we have to monitor is terms and conditions. ’cause of course, working with the government, there’s a lot of terms and conditions. So we try to alleviate that by having it go through caresoft, they’re able to absorb some, so this way we can actually transact with the government. [00:17:36] Darryl Peek: In regards to the team though we try to really work closely with our solution architecture team. So this way we can develop clear enablement strategies with our partners so this way they know what it is we do, but also how to properly bring us up in a conversation. Also handle objections and also what are we doing to implement our solutions within other markets. [00:17:55] Darryl Peek: So those are things that we are doing as well as partner marketing. Top of funnel activity is really important, so we’re trying to differentiate what we’re doing with the field and field marketing. So you’re doing the leads and m qls and things of that nature also with partner marketing. So our partner marketing actually is driven by leads, but also we’re trying to transact. [00:18:10] Darryl Peek: And get Ps of which our partner deal registration. So that is how we align our partner go to market. And that is actually translating into our partner source outcomes. [00:18:18] Vince Menzione: And I think we have a slide that talks a little bit about your public sector partner strategy. [00:18:23] Darryl Peek: Oh yeah. Oh, I share that. So I thought maybe we could spin it. [00:18:25] Darryl Peek: Absolutely. [00:18:25] Vince Menzione: I know you we can’t see it, but they can. Oh, they can. Okay. Great. [00:18:29] Darryl Peek: There it’s there. [00:18:30] Vince Menzione: It’s career. [00:18:31] Darryl Peek: One thing, I think this was Einstein has said, if you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough. So that was the one thing. So I always was a big fan of creating a one page strategy. [00:18:39] Darryl Peek: And based on this one page strategy one of the things when I worked at Salesforce it was really about a couple things and the saying, okay, what are your bookings? And if you don’t have bookings, what does your pipeline look like? If you don’t have pipeline, what does your prospecting look like? [00:18:51] Darryl Peek: Yeah. If you don’t have prospecting what does your account plan look like? And if you don’t have an account plan, why are you here? Why are you here? Exactly. So those are the things that I really talk to my team about is just really a, it’s about bookings. It’s about pipeline. It’s about planning, enablement and execution. [00:19:05] Darryl Peek: It’s about marketing, branding and evangelism, and also about operational excellence and how to execute. Very cool. So being able to do that and also I, since I came from Salesforce, I talk to my team a lot about Salesforce hygiene. So we really talk about that a lot. So make, making sure we’re making proper use of chatter, but also as we talk about utilizing ai, we just try to. [00:19:21] Darryl Peek: How do we simplify that, right? So if we’re using Zoom or we’re using Google, how do we make sure that we’re capturing those meeting minutes, translating that, putting that into the system, so therefore we have a record of that engagement with that partner. So this is a continuous threat. So this way I don’t have to call my partner manager the entire time. [00:19:36] Darryl Peek: I can look back, see what actions, see what was discussed, and say, okay, how can we keep this conversation going? Because we shouldn’t have to have those conversations every time. I shouldn’t have to text you to say, give me the download on every partner. Every time. How do we automate that? And that’s really where you’re creating this context window with your Genive ai. [00:19:53] Darryl Peek: I think they said what 75% of organizations are using one AI tool. And I think 1% are mature in that. But also a number of organizations, it’s 90% of organizations are using generative AI tools to some degree. So we are using gen to bi. We do use a number of them. We have elastic GPT. Nice little brand there. [00:20:11] Darryl Peek: But yeah, we use that for not only understanding what’s in our our repositories and data lakes and data warehouses, but also what are some answers that we can have in regards to proposal responses, RP responses, RFI, responses and the like. [00:20:23] Vince Menzione: And you’re reaching out to the other LLMs through your tool? [00:20:26] Darryl Peek: We can actually interact with any LLM. So we are a LLM Agnostic. [00:20:29] Vince Menzione: Got it. Yep. That’s fantastic. And this slide is we’ll make this available if you don’t have a, yeah, have a chance. We’ll share it. I [00:20:36] Darryl Peek: am happy to share, yeah. And obviously happy to talk, reach out about it. Of, of course. I simplified it in order to account for you, but one of the things that I talk about is mission, vision of values. [00:20:45] Darryl Peek: And as we start with that is what is your mission now? How is anybody from Pittsburgh, anybody steal a fan? Oh wow. No, there’s a steel fan over [00:20:54] Vince Menzione: here. There’s one here. There’s a couple of ’em are out here. So I feel bad. [00:20:57] Darryl Peek: The reason why I put immaculate in there is for the immaculate reception, actually. [00:21:00] Darryl Peek: Yes. And basically saying that if you ever seen that play, it was not pretty at all. It was a very discombobulated play. Yeah. And I usually say that’s the way that you work with partners too, because when that deal doesn’t come in, when you gotta make a call, when you’re texting somebody at 11 o’clock at night, when you’re trying to get that at, right before quarter end. [00:21:17] Darryl Peek: Yeah. Before the end of it. It really is difficult, but it’s really creating that immaculate experience. You want that partner to come back. I know it’s challenging, but I appreciate how you leaned in with us. Yes, absolutely. I appreciate how you work with us. I appreciate how you held our hand through the process, and that’s what I tell my team, that we have to create that partner experience. [00:21:32] Darryl Peek: And maybe that’s a carryover from Salesforce, Dave. I don’t know. But also when we talk about enhancing or accelerating our partner. Our public sector outcomes that is really working with the customer, right? So customer experience has to be part of it. Like all of us have to be focused on that North star, and that is really how do we service the customer, and that’s what we choose to do. [00:21:48] Darryl Peek: But also the internal part. So I used to survey my team many moves ago, and I said, if we don’t get 80% satisfaction rate from our employees how do we get 60% satisfaction rate from our customers? Yeah. So really focus on that employee success and employee satisfaction. It’s so important, is very important. [00:22:03] Darryl Peek: So being able to understand what are the needs of your employees? Are you really addressing their concerns and are you really driving them forward? Are you challenging them? Are you creating pathways for progression? So those are things that I definitely try to do with my team. As well as just really encouraging, inspiring, yeah. [00:22:19] Darryl Peek: And just making sure that they’re having fun at the same time. [00:22:21] Vince Menzione: It shows up in such, I, there’s an airline I don’t fly any longer, and it was a million mile member of and I know it’s because of the way they treat their employees. [00:22:29] Vince Menzione: Because it cascades Right? [00:22:30] Darryl Peek: It does. Culture is important. [00:22:32] Vince Menzione: Yeah. Absolutely. [00:22:32] Darryl Peek: What is it? What Anderson Howard they say what col. Mark Andresen culture eat strategy for [00:22:37] Vince Menzione: breakfast. He strategy for breakfast? Yes. Very much this has been insightful. I really enjoyed having you here today. Really a great, you’re a lot of fun. You’re a lot of fun. [00:22:43] Vince Menzione: Darry, isn’t you? Amazing. So thank you for joining us. Thank you all. Thank And you’re gonna be, you’re gonna be sticking around for a little while today. I’m sticking around for a little while. I’ll be back in little later. I think people are gonna just en enjoy having a conversation with you, a little sidebar. [00:22:55] Darryl Peek: Absolutely. I’m looking forward to it. Thank you all for having me. Glad to be here. And thank you for giving the time today. [00:23:01] Vince Menzione: Thank you Darryl, so much. So appreciate it. And you’re gonna have to come join me on this Story Diamond tool. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for tuning into this episode of Ultimate Guide to Partnering. [00:23:12] Vince Menzione: We’re bringing these episodes to you to help you level up your strategy. If you haven’t yet, now’s the time to take action and think about joining our community. We created a unique place, UPX or Ultimate partner experience. It’s more than a community. It’s your competitive edge with insider insights, real-time education, and direct access to people who are driving the ecosystem forward. [00:23:38] Vince Menzione: UPX helps you get results, and we’re just getting started as we’re taking this studio. And we’ll be hosting live stream and digital events here, including our January live stream, the Boca Winter Retreat, and more to come. So visit our website, the ultimate partner.com to learn more and join us. Now’s the time to take your partnerships to the next level.