The Improbable Professor: Don Hambrick on Setbacks, Strategy, and Second Chances 

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C Suite strategist, business founder and best selling author, sits down with Julia Dhar, Managing Director & Partner at Boston Consulting Group (BCG) and Founder of the BCG Behavioral Science Lab. Julia is the co-author of How Change Really Works: Seven Science-Based Principles for Transforming Your Organization alongside Kristy R. Ellmer and Philip Jameson.  00:00 Why organizational change so often fails 00:23 Introducing Julia Dhar and How Change Really Works 01:27 Julia’s journey into behavioral science and change 05:58 The progress principle: Helping people stick with change 09:25 The politics of change and “sleeping dogs” 10:07 Using stories and symbols to inspire action 11:59 Chobani’s origin story: Small actions, powerful signals 15:07 The change gap between executives and employees 19:46 Make room for innovation by removing unnecessary work 23:32 Why effective leaders stay close to the work 26:43 Best Buy: Learning from the front lines 28:25 “Roger Ready”: Making high standards concrete 30:33 Brunello Cucinelli: Connecting people to the work 32:13 The false alignment trap—and how to get real agreement 37:14 Discovery-driven planning and consistent processes 39:21 Building the capacity for successful change  Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU  Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q  Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social  Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/  Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/  Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.  

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C Suite strategist, business founder and best selling author, sits down with Corey Rosen, the founder of the National Center for Employee Ownership, a nonprofit that conducts research on the effects of employee ownership, employee ownership law and practice, and open-book management and employee involvement. 0:00 Intro 0:19 Welcome & Introducing Corey Rosen 1:11 Origins of Employee Ownership in the 1970s 2:01 Louis Kelso & The Capitalist Manifesto 3:39 The ESOP Concept: Borrowing to Buy Ownership 7:20 How ESOPs Work in Practice 9:20 ESOPs for Business Transitions & Stock Options 10:58 Research on ESOP Performance 16:01 Causation vs. Correlation: Do ESOPs Drive Performance? 18:11 Why ESOPs Perform Better: Retention & Involvement 22:26 Jack Stack & Open Book Management at SRC 23:31 Private Equity & Employee Ownership (Pete Stavros/KKR) 27:49 Profits Without Prosperity: The Policy Problem 30:31 Carlota Perez: Economic Cycles & Turning Points 33:08 The Social Crisis & Rethinking Ownership 38:44 Policy Gaps: Awareness, Financing & Legislation 45:47 Mark Cuban's Equity Proposal 48:11 Broadening Ownership to Preserve Democracy 51:10 Advice for Young People & Career Guidance 53:36 Closing Remarks    Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU  Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q  Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social  Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/  Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/  Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.  

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C Suite strategist, business founder and best selling author, welcomes Bobby Herrera, co-founder and president of the Populus Group and author of The Gift of Struggle.   0:00:  Welcome to Thought Sparks 0:18: The Bus Story 3:21: Family Background & The Bracero Program 6:33: Growing Up & Military Service 8:44: Keeping Your Word: The Wedding Story 13:11: The Demotion: Owning Your Part 19:04: Building Populus Group 25:39: Culture: Climbers & Common Language 30:11: Selecting, Welcoming, and Developing Talent 34:55: The Kind Truth & Hard Conversations 38:39: The Era of Slow: Less But Better 43:10: Staying True to Your Values 48:55:  Closing & Reflections   Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU  Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q  Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social  Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/  Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/  Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.  

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C Suite strategist, business founder and best selling author, welcomes Don Hambrick, Evan Pugh Professor and the Smeal Chaired Professor of Management at Pennsylvania State University and author of The Improbable Professor.   0:00 Introduction & Welcome 0:29 Welcoming Don Hambrick 2:00 Does the Academy of Management Really Matter? 4:30 Don's Landmark Research: CEO Hubris, Tenure & Strategy 10:08 Learning the Craft of Teaching at Columbia 11:29 Writing The Improbable Professor 15:43 Don's Early Life & Parents 19:56 Family Relationships & Discovering His Daughter 24:48 The Path to Becoming a Professor 28:10 The Evolution of Strategy as a Field 35:30 Porter's Five Forces & Industry Analysis 39:09 The Value of a PhD 44:20 The Future of Business Schools 52:06 Reflections on the Book & Resilience 54:00 Closing & The Concorde Story  Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU  Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q  Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social  Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/  Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/  Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.  

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C Suite strategist, business founder and best selling author, sits down with Sebastian Wernicke, author of “Data Inspired: Building an Organizational Culture of Inquiry for Lasting Transformation” and expert in data science, machine learning and AI.  0:00 Introduction & Welcome 1:08 Sebastian's Journey into Data 2:54 The Frustration That Inspired the Book 5:09 Data: Keeping Organizations the Same? 6:26 The Slow Elevator Story 8:38 Purpose First, Data Second 9:25 Understanding the Real Problem 12:12 Building a Culture of Inquiry 15:33 Data Driven or Data Frustrated 18:23 Data as Compression of Reality 19:54 Three Myths About Data 26:09 Complex Decisions: Bezos on Anecdotes vs. Data 28:41 Three Kinds of Indicators 30:34 Experimentation & Leading Indicators 31:49 Economics Consulting in Practice 37:24 Strategy as Problem-Solving 39:42 AI Strategy & Token Maxing 42:29 Measuring What Can't Be Measured 46:18 The Data Inspired Manifesto 48:54 Book Reception Across Fields 52:27 Bad Metrics & Short-Termism 55:18 Creating Space for Thinking 57:15 Closing Thoughts   Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU  Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q  Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social  Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/  Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/  Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.  

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C Suite strategist, business founder and best selling author, sits down with Bill McGowan, founder and CEO of Clarity Media Group and a  two-time Emmy Award-winning correspondent. Bill’s second book is Speak, Memorably: The Art of Captivating an Audience,written alongside co-author Juliana Silva.  0:00 Cold Open: The Playing Not to Lose Mentality 0:23 Welcome & Introducing Bill McGowan 1:20 From TV News to Communication Coaching 5:32 The Magnificent Seven: Verbal Devices 10:00 Creative Labels: Toothbrush Test, Goldilocks & Pottery Barn 12:14 The Conformity Zone: Why Executives Sound the Same 15:37 Hooking Your Audience & The Cost of Poor Communication 20:34 Coaching Skeptical Executives 24:16 Structuring a Great Speech (No Jokes) 25:27 Lessons from Stand Up Comedians 29:38 Novartis Super Bowl Ad & The Power of Levity 35:55 Making Complex Problems Simple: The Ozone Layer 37:58 Contextualizing Data for Real People 40:38 Leaders, Symbolism & Plain Talk 45:44 Conveying Bad News (BP & Goldman Sachs) 48:32 Knowing Your Audience & Speech Prep Tips 52:26 “Being Authentic” Needs Discernment 54:41 Where to Find Bill & Closing   Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU  Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q  Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social  Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/  Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/  Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.  

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Rick Goings, founder of The Rick Goings Institute for Management and Executive Leadership at Rollins College. Formerly, Rick held several senior executive roles at Avon Products and served as Chairman & CEO of Tupperware Brands.   0:00 Introduction 0:25 Meet Rick Goings 1:21 The Rollins College Institute 2:58 Rick's Journey: Navy to Entrepreneur 6:31 First Company & Fortunate Pet 7:56 Avon and Tupperware 8:30 Women: Hiding in Plain Sight 9:46 Transforming Tupperware 12:29 Empowering Women in Patriarchal Societies 13:56 Warrior Training in Indonesia 17:31 Leadership as a Craft 19:59 The Institute & Rod Adkins 27:34 Google's Project Oxygen 29:33 The Bruce Springsteen Story 34:26 Peer Learning at the Institute 35:40 Three Focus Areas: Foresight, Vitality, Civic Leadership 37:41 Shareholder vs Stakeholder Value 41:59 The Vatican & Stakeholder Value 43:37 The Great Transition in Capitalism 45:27 "Add Value" – A Daily Mindset 50:35 The Future of Business Schools 52:45 The Halo Effect & AI Simulations 58:10 Forging Leaders 1:02:10 Conclusion   Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU  Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q  Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social  Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/  Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/  Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.  

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Beth Gardiner, journalist with bylines in National Geographic, the New York Times, the Guardian, the Washington Post, and Scientific American; and author of the new book Plastic Inc.: The Secret History and Shocking Future of Big Oil's Biggest Bet.  0:00 Intro & Welcome 1:06 How the Book Idea Came About 6:50 The Fossil Fuel Industry's Pivot to Plastic 10:06 The History & Growth of Plastic Production 12:30 Recycling as a PR Tool 17:55 Keep America Beautiful & the Crying Indian 21:38 How Plastic Crept Into Our Lives 25:07 The Economics of Cheap Plastic 29:19 Diane Wilson vs. Formosa Plastics 35:48 The Recycling Symbol & Its Misuse 38:55 Lawsuits & Corporate Accountability 44:16 Fast Fashion & Plastic in Clothing 46:13 Cancer Alley & Fence-Line Communities 50:36 The Ozone Layer Parallel & Policy Solutions 54:10 Extended Producer Responsibility 57:21 Closing & Wrap Up     Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU  Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q  Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social  Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/  Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/  Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.  

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Joe Pine, management advisor and author of the new book The Transformation Economy: Guiding Customers to Achieve Their Aspirations. Joe shares insights into the transition from  the experience economy to the transformation economy, and why customers want change, not stuff.   0:00 Intro & Welcome 0:21 Meet Joe Pine: The Transformation Economy 1:28 Origins of the Experience Economy 3:02 The Rise of Coaching & Why Now 6:27 The Economic Hierarchy: Commodities to Transformations 7:00 From Tangible to Intangible Assets 8:54 Understanding What Customers Truly Want 12:27 The Four Types of Transformation 15:02 The Transformation Framework: Scale & Kind 17:16 Rethinking Competitive Advantage 20:27 Time Well Saved, Spent & Invested 22:12 Friction in Experiences & The Modern Love Column 25:05 Generational Shifts in Valuing Experiences 30:49 Nudging Companies Toward Customer-Centricity 33:25 Disneyland: Making Dad the Hero 35:06 Real-World Experience Fails: Hotel & Passport Stories 39:28 The Real Purpose of Business: Human Flourishing 43:22 The Global Food Economy & Pricing Paradoxes 47:23 The Coffee Progression: 5¢ Beans to $8 Latte 49:16 Surprises from 30 Years of Research 52:11 Paying for Outcomes: Texas State Technical College 55:43 AI & The Future of Outcomes-Based Economy 57:58 Wrap-Up & Closing    Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU  Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q  Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social  Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/  Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/  Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.  

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Caroline Webb, former McKinsey partner, leadership coach, and economist. Her new book, Leadership Intelligence, which is available on September 8, gives practical strategies for leaders facing 21 everyday management challenges.    0:00 Welcome to Thought Sparks 0:24 Meet Caroline Webb 1:21 Experiential vs. Deliberate Wisdom 3:04 How the Book Came to Be 10:27 The Three-Part Structure: How We Think 12:57 The Brain's Reward System: Competence & Connection 17:23 The Brain's Threat System & Resilience 19:58 Absorbing Uncertainty: Know, Be, Do 26:00 Staying Calm Under Pressure: The ABC Routine 27:57 The Readiness Reframe: Channeling Anxiety 29:59 Preparing Before Key Moments 31:00 The Positive No 36:51 Fix Flex: The Art of Delegation 40:17 The Leadership Pipeline & Managing AI Agents 41:48 Difficult Conversations: Layoffs & Underperformance 45:08 Compassionate Clarity 45:36 The Arc of a Coaching Engagement 50:21 Common Themes in Senior Leaders 53:56 Loneliness at the Top & Building Networks 56:09 Wrap-Up & Where to Learn More  Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU  Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q  Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ https://x.com/rgmcgrath https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social  Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/  Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/  Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.