The Three Dilemmas of Org Design — David Plink on Leadership, Strategy & Human-Centered Change

In this episode, Amy Springer and Tim Brewer are joined by Josh Epperson, Senior Manager of Organizational Development at Amazon. Josh shares a refreshingly honest, thought-provoking journey from play-based therapy with children to shaping strategy, structure, and systems at one of the world’s largest companies. This conversation explores how org design is evolving in an AI-infused world—why the org chart is no longer enough, how agentic AI changes workforce strategy, and what leaders should be measuring (but often aren’t). Josh reveals practical frameworks like Fit to Purpose and Fit to Deliver, explains why most org design efforts are reactive (and broken), and challenges us to design ourselves out of a job before AI does it for us. Whether you’re an org design pro or a founder navigating scale, this is your blueprint for designing resilient, high-performing organizations. Josh Epperson https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshepperson/ Org Design Podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/

In this candid and compelling episode of the Org Design Podcast, recorded live at the Festival of Org Design 2024, hosts Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis sit down with Haris Ahmed, founder of Pragmatium Consulting Group, to uncover three decades of wisdom in organizational transformation. Haris shares how he stumbled into org design during the Y2K era and evolved into a strategic advisor trusted by mid-market powerhouses and ambitious startups alike. From diagnosing dysfunction to architecting adaptive systems, Haris explains why getting the strategy-structure-capability triangle right is crucial—especially when the market moves faster than your 5-year plan. This episode is packed with practical advice for founders, leaders, and change agents—from identifying cultural silos to unlocking high-performance through clear leadership dynamics. Haris also reveals the surprising power of crucial conversations, the value of external perspectives, and why org design is no longer a luxury—it’s a leadership imperative. Haris Ahmed https://www.linkedin.com/in/harisahmedusa/ https://pragmatiumconsulting.com/ The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly www.functionly.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/

What if the real problem in your organization isn’t your people—but your structure? In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, Erika Jacobi, Ph.D., Founder and MD of LC Global Consulting, joins Amy Springer and Damian Bramanis to unpack why structure drives behavior—and how most organizations are solving symptoms, not root causes. Erika shares insights from 20+ years in organizational development, explaining: • Why coaching and training often fail without systemic design • How to spot when your organization’s structure is the real issue • The critical breaking points in company growth—from 2 to 200,000 people • Why adaptability and stability are not opposites in modern orgs • How visionary CEOs can accidentally create chaos (and what to do about it) Packed with clarity, candor, and a systems-thinking lens, Erika invites leaders to move from reactive reorgs to thoughtful, adaptive design—starting with their own thinking. 🎧 Whether you’re a founder at 5 employees or an exec at 50,000—this conversation will reshape how you think about scale, culture, and sustainable growth. Erika Jacobi https://www.linkedin.com/in/erika-jacobi-ph-d-b5261611/ https://www.lc-global.com/ The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/

In this episode recorded live at EODF 2024 in Milan, we sit down with David Plink, CEO of the Top Employers Institute, for a raw and inspiring conversation on what it really takes to lead lasting organizational change. Hosted by Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis, David reflects on his 16-year journey leading a global certification body across 30+ nationalities—from recovering after a life-changing illness to transforming a near-bankrupt company into a purpose-driven global movement. He shares candid stories and hard-won insights, including: ⚖️ Three essential dilemmas every leader faces in org design: 1. People follow strategy vs. People first 2. Big bang vs. Slow burn change 3. Soft approach vs. Ripping off the bandaid 🌍 Why purpose and people development are non-negotiables in modern leadership 💬 How clear communication and embracing uncertainty build safety for change 🧭 Why “clarity is kindness” and sometimes the bravest choice is the hardest one This episode is a masterclass in empathetic leadership, adaptive strategy, and organizational courage. Whether you’re a CEO, HR leader, or change agent—this one will stay with you. 🎧 Listen now to rethink how you lead through complexity. Functionly www.functionly.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/ Org Design Podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ Top Employers Institute https://www.top-employers.com/us/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/topemployersinstitute/

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, hosts Amy Springer and Tim Brewer welcome Ariana Poirier, a seasoned Change Strategist and consultant. Ariana shares her journey into the world of organizational design, emphasizing the importance of understanding and managing change within organizations. She discusses the challenges leaders face when implementing change, including the psychological barriers that individuals encounter. The conversation highlights the significance of emotional intelligence in leadership and the necessity of strategic planning in change management initiatives. Ariana also offers practical advice for leaders to assess engagement within their teams, fostering a culture of agility and adaptability. With insights drawn from her extensive experience, Ariana provides listeners with valuable tools and frameworks to navigate change effectively, ultimately enhancing organizational performance and employee engagement. Tune in to discover how leaders can cultivate a healthy change culture and drive meaningful transformation within their organizations. Ariana Poirer https://www.linkedin.com/in/arianapoirier/ Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, hosts Amy Springer and Damian chatted with Lisa Taylor from Taylor Stein Consulting (L.T. Consulting), who shares her unexpected journey into the world of organizational design. Starting with a background in music and a series of adventures that led her to teach English in Taiwan, Lisa discusses her transition from performing arts to human capital and organizational consulting. Throughout the conversation, she emphasizes the importance of focusing on people and behavior change within organizations, rather than solely on processes. Lisa recounts her experiences working at various firms, including Deloitte, where she found fulfillment in collaborating with clients to address challenges and improve organizational structures. She highlights the significance of conducting thorough diagnostics to understand organizational culture and the different experiences of leadership versus the workforce. The episode explores critical themes such as the need for alignment within leadership teams, the challenges of remote work, and the future of organizational design in a rapidly changing environment. Listeners will gain insights into the importance of curiosity, open-mindedness, and collaboration in effective organizational design, along with practical advice for leaders seeking to navigate the complexities of organizational change. Tune in to understand how Lisa's unique perspective and experiences can inform and inspire your approach to building healthier organizations. 00:00 Lisa Taylor Introduction 00:20 Lisa's Accidental Journey into Org Design 01:40 The Shift from Music to HR 02:55 Realization about Organizational Change 04:05 Importance of People in Process Improvement 05:34 Collaboration with Clients 06:50 Starting the Diagnostic Process 08:15 Engaging Leaders in Org Design 09:35 Assessing Team Alignment 10:22 Skills Leaders Should Develop 11:58 Recognizing Red Flags in Organizations 13:13 Future of Org Design After COVID 14:51 Training the Next Generation of Org Designers 15:01 Conclusion and Further Contact Information The Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast/ LT consulting/ Taylor Stein Consulting https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-taylor-dc/ Organization Design Forum https://organizationdesignforum.org/

In this **bonus** episode of the Org Design Podcast, host Amy Springer welcomes James Davis from The TSP Advisory to discuss the evolving roles and responsibilities within the Technology Services industry. James shares insights on the transformation of Managed Services Providers (MSPs), Systems Integrators (SIs), and Value Added Resellers (VARs) as they adapt to new business models and client needs. He emphasizes the importance of organizational design in navigating growth challenges and optimizing team structures. The conversation highlights the distinct characteristics of each model, the necessity for clear roles and responsibilities, and the financial metrics that guide successful operations. James also addresses common pain points that organizations face during periods of change and the value of a strategic, top-down approach to org design. Listeners will gain valuable perspectives on how to foster a healthy organizational culture by aligning team structures with business objectives, ultimately leading to improved performance and profitability. Tune in for practical advice and thought-provoking discussions on the future of organizational design in the TSP industry. The TSP Advisory https://thetspadvisory.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@UCnUB-fI2ePSlLCwpLaalNUg https://creators.spotify.com/pod/profile/the-tsp-advisory/ https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/tsp-advice/id1804239948 https://www.linkedin.com/company/thetspadvisory/ Functionly https://www.functionly.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/functionly/ Org Design Podcast https://www.functionly.com/org-design-podcast https://www.linkedin.com/company/orgdesignpodcast https://open.spotify.com/show/0Xw3bbEISDbSDO5WT8O7bu?si=1b35ee795fa84531 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/org-design-podcast/id1501527726

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, Tim Brewer and Amy Springer welcome Andreas Wenger, a partner at Transforma Consulting, to discuss the intricacies of organizational design. Andreas shares his journey into the field, highlighting how his academic background in organization science laid the foundation for his practical consulting experience. He emphasizes the critical importance of aligning organizational structures with the evolving needs of clients, particularly in complex environments. Andreas recounts a compelling case study involving a care institution that successfully transformed its organizational structure to better serve its changing demographic, navigating the challenges posed by the COVID-19 pandemic. He illustrates how effective organization design can empower teams at all levels, enabling them to make decisions closer to the operational front lines. The conversation also delves into the common pitfalls of poor organizational design, the need for leaders to develop conviction around change initiatives, and the vital role of time in implementing successful transformations. Andreas encourages leaders to view organization as more than just charts and structures, advocating for a holistic approach that fosters collaboration and innovation. Join us for this insightful discussion on how to build resilient organizations and navigate the complexities of change.

In this episode of the Org Design Podcast, hosts Tim Brewer and Damian Bramanis welcome Liz Ferguson from Wiley's research publishing group. Liz shares her journey into organizational design, which began unexpectedly as she took on a new leadership role managing a large team. Faced with the challenge of restructuring to better align with industry changes, she sought external expertise to guide the process. Liz discusses the importance of understanding the unique needs of her organization and how collaborative workshops helped identify inefficiencies and opportunities for improvement. Throughout the conversation, Liz emphasizes the value of being open-minded as a leader and involving team members in the change process. She reflects on the challenges of balancing strategy with the human side of organizational change, advocating for gradual engagement over abrupt transitions. This episode highlights the continuous evolution of organizations and the need for leaders to adapt their structures to meet changing market demands.

Send us a textIn this episode of the Org Design Podcast, we sit down with Carlos Valdes-Dapena, a seasoned expert in organizational design and development. Carlos shares his insights on the evolving nature of organizational structures, the importance of adaptability in leadership, and the human aspects of organizational change.Carlos discusses the shift from traditional hierarchical structures to more responsive and adaptive organizational models. He emphasizes the need for leaders to let go of outdated control paradigms and embrace a more flexible approach to management. The conversation touches on the challenges of change, both for organizations and individuals, and the importance of continuous learning and adaptation in today's rapidly evolving business landscape.Key points from the episode:The transition from control-based to responsive organizational structuresThe importance of adaptability and "letting go" for leaders in modern organizationsThe human challenges in organizational change and the need for continuous learningInsights into the Organization Design Forum (ODF) and its role in the field of organizational designThe broad scope of organizational design, encompassing various aspects of how human systems operate in workplacesThis episode offers valuable insights for leaders, managers, and anyone interested in improving organizational effectiveness and navigating the complexities of modern business environments.Support the show