Stop Overthinking Your Sales Calls (Do This Instead)" | Adam Lowther - 2030

A former Marine who did eight combat deployments in eight years now spends his time teaching people to stop pitching and start asking better questions.Keith Gillispie, founder of REI Automated, left the Marines in 2020 to build a real estate investing and coaching business that's helped more than 1,200 people, with close to 580 of them closing their very first deal. He broke down exactly how he qualifies, questions, and consults his way to the close.Why "Selling" Is the Wrong Mindset (Stop Being House Horny)Keith's blunt term for pushy sellers: house horny, chasing the deal so hard that they force the wrong solution onto someone just to close it.His fix is simple: stop selling, and start asking great questions that guide the prospect to the answer on their own.He reviews sales calls with his own team every week, and the biggest issue he catches with newer reps is a used-car-salesman energy that shows up the moment they stop asking and start pitching.Qualify for the Right Industry FirstKeith gets over a hundred Facebook messages a day, and his team has to pre-qualify people before he ever gets on a call.A recent example: a rep flagged someone as "qualified" who actually wanted coaching on commercial real estate, which Keith doesn't teach at all. Same broad label, completely wrong fit.Even inside a niche that sounds close enough, being in the wrong specific industry wastes everyone's time.Qualify for the Right Problem: Your Core Competency Must Match Their Core ConstraintKeith's rule: everyone has problems, but that alone doesn't make someone a fit. What he's good at has to be exactly what the prospect is bad at.He calls this matching your core competency to their core constraint. If there's no real gap for him to fill, there's no real reason for the two of them to work together.This is what separates a win-win engagement from a sale that shouldn't have happened in the first place.Qualify for the Right Money (Or Every Call Becomes Charity)Even with the right industry and the right problem, a prospect still has to be able to afford the solution, or the call turns into free coaching.Keith shared a recent example of two prospects who badly wanted to join his program but couldn't spend even $300, when his coaching runs into the thousands.He's direct with his own team about this: sending him financially unqualified leads turns every call into charity work, which isn't sustainable as a business, even though he's genuinely happy to hand out free value when it makes sense.Diagnose Before You PrescribeKeith estimates that more than half of the people who come to him think they know what they need, and they're wrong.His example: prospects ask for automation when they don't even have leads coming in yet, or don't know how to structure a deal. Automating a broken process just scales the chaos faster.He compares it to a patient self-diagnosing before seeing a doctor. The seller's job, like a doctor's, is to ask enough questions to find the real issue before recommending anything.Get Comfortable Asking Uncomfortable Financial QuestionsKeith walks straight into questions like current income, whether that number is gross or net, and total debt, early in a call, because he can't build a plan without knowing where someone actually stands.He compares it to Google Maps: you need a point of origin and a point of destination before you can build the route in between.Roughly one in twenty-five or thirty people push back on how direct these questions are. Keith's response is straightforward: if they can't handle these basic questions now, the program itself is going to be a rough fit.Build Yes Momentum With Small AsksKeith structures his qualifying questions to build what he calls yes momentum: each small, reasonable question makes the next one easier to answer.He starts broad, what do you do, how long have you done it, before narrowing into income, debt, and financial specifics, so the conversation earns its way to the harder questions instead of opening with them.That same sequence doubles as training. The financial questions he asks on a discovery call mirror the exact questions his students will later need to ask sellers and private lenders.Ask Questions, Don't Make StatementsKeith's rule for himself: don't make a statement for the first 60 percent of any sales call, aside from short softening statements like "I'm glad you asked that."The only exception is a brief acknowledgment before turning right back around and asking another question.Whoever is asking the questions is steering the conversation, and Keith treats that as true for the entire first half of every call he runs.Never Fully Answer a Question Without Asking One BackKeith borrows from Socratic questioning: when a prospect asks a direct question, like how fast he can close on a house, answering too quickly and too specifically can blow up the deal in either direction.Instead, he gives a partial, honest answer, then asks a question that uncovers the real reason behind their question, like whether they need to move fast or need more time.That extra step means his eventual answer is actually calibrated to what the person needs, instead of a generic response that might scare them off or fail to meet an urgent situation.Become a Lifelong Student of Your CraftKeith has taken more than ten thousand sales calls over eleven years and still says the more he learns about sales psychology, the more he realizes he doesn't know.His advice for anyone serious about improving: invest in a coach or mentor who can review real calls and point out specific gaps, rather than trying to learn everything for free through trial and error.His framing: you'll pay for the lesson either way, either in money to a mentor, or in wasted time and missed opportunity learning the hard way."People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care." — Keith GillispieResourcesConnect with Keith Gillispie on LinkedIn.Visit REI Automated to learn more about Keith's education, software, and coaching community for real estate investors.Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way.Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content.Sponsorship OffersThis episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.CreditsAs one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and produced by Brightseed and Hill.

37 reps who got the least recognition on one 153-person sales team averaged 62 percent quota attainment. The team average was 107 percent. That gap is the whole argument Sindre Haaland, CEO and founder of SalesScreen, makes for why comp plans alone don't explain sales performance.Why Identical Comp Plans Produce Wildly Different ResultsSindre's core observation: two reps can work under the exact same comp plan and produce completely different results, which means money alone isn't the daily driver of performance.Comp plans set the structure and tell a rep what they need to do to get paid, but engagement is what determines whether they actually do it consistently.An engaged rep will outperform a disengaged one with the identical incentive on the table, every time.Know Your Sales MathSindre's first question to any rep: have you actually broken your quota down into what you need to do today, not just what you need to hit by year end?Reps who treat sales as a series of repeatable, data-driven daily activities have a far more predictable path to their number than those relying on charisma alone.Even with a full pipeline of data, the numbers only matter if a rep has the motivation to actually execute the plan. That's the gap gamification is built to close.The Four Player Types on Every Sales TeamSindre borrows a framework from game theory to describe four types of sales reps: killers, achievers, explorers, and socialites.Killers are driven by being number one and seeing their name at the top of the leaderboard. Achievers care about personal bests, regardless of where they rank against everyone else.Explorers enjoy the process itself, testing new tools and new angles. Socialites, the majority of most sales teams, are driven by recognition, visibility, and feeling like their effort is seen.The TV and Music Moment That Changed Sindre's CareerSindre described watching a sales floor the first time his team replaced a whiteboard with TVs that played music and visuals every time a rep closed a deal.People were jumping on their desks. That reaction is what convinced him sales motivation itself, not another feature, was the real business to build.A rep's win becoming a shared, visible, celebrated moment does something a quiet bank deposit never will.Three Rules for Running a Contest That Moves the NeedleTiming matters more than most leaders assume. Contests started on a Wednesday consistently outperform ones started on a Monday, since early-week motivation has usually faded by midweek.Shorter is better. Month-long contests tend to create a "valley of disengagement," with excitement in week one, a dead middle, and a scramble at the end. One-day sprints create urgency without the letdown.Change the format so more than the top performer has a real shot. A lottery-style contest, where every meeting booked or deal closed earns a ticket, gives the middle of the pack a genuine "I might actually win this time" feeling.Get Creative: Pairing, Envelopes, and the White Elephant GamePairing a high performer with a lower performer on a team-based contest naturally creates coaching and mentorship, without ever calling it that.Simple physical mechanics work too: envelopes on a wall that reps can pick from after hitting an activity, some holding a dollar, some holding a bigger prize.Sindre's favorite: a white elephant style game where prizes range from real rewards to silly forfeits, and reps can steal from each other until the contest ends, creating genuinely memorable moments on the floor.The Recognition Stat That Proves the PointSindre shared data from a 153-person sales team where they measured how often each rep received recognition in a month.The 37 reps who received the least recognition averaged 62 percent quota attainment. The team average was 107 percent.Recognition and quota attainment move together closely enough that Sindre treats recognition frequency as a leading indicator, not just a nice-to-have.Where to Start as a New Sales LeaderSindre's starting point for anyone new to this: interview your top performers and find out what they actually do every day, not just what the official process says they should do.Frequently, top performers are doing things nobody explicitly asked them to do, or doing an already-known behavior far more consistently than everyone else.Cross-check those behaviors against the rest of the team. Wherever the gap is real, that's where a leader's next contest or incentive should be aimed."A motivated person will do better than a disengaged one, even with the same comp plan." — Sindre HaalandResourcesConnect with Sindre Haaland on LinkedIn.Visit SalesScreen, the world's leading sales gamification platform.Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way.Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content.Sponsorship OffersThis episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.CreditsAs one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and produced by Brightseed and Hill.

Only 10 percent of sales messages actually explain why something should matter to the buyer. The other 90 percent are just decoration on a generic pitch. That stat comes from Leslie Venetz, who audits thousands of sales messages every year and just released her USA Today bestseller, Profit-Generating Pipeline. She broke down what real relevance looks like, and the exact method she uses to build it.What Relevance Actually Means (And Why Most Sellers Miss It)Leslie defines relevance simply: a message has to be relevant to the person receiving it, not to the seller sending it.The biggest problem she sees is that most outreach centers on the seller's process, product, and company goals instead of the buyer.When she audits sales messaging, and she reviews thousands of messages a year, only about 10 percent actually explain why a piece of information should matter to the prospect.The Mail Merge Era: When "Fake Personalization" Felt Like MagicBack around 2012, Leslie ran a basic mail merge strategy that felt groundbreaking at the time. Prospects were genuinely impressed just to see their name and company pulled into an email.That tactic hasn't disappeared. It's evolved into things like mentioning a prospect's new job title or congratulating them on a funding round.The problem is the same one it's always been: something can be true about a prospect without being relevant to them right now.Personalization Versus RelevanceLeslie draws a clear distinction: personalization is a fact about the prospect. Relevance is why that fact should matter to them today.I shared my own experience of digging through my inbox after the pandemic and realizing most pitches weren't even relevant to my actual role, let alone my actual problems.The real gap, in Leslie's words, is that most sellers never get into the buyer's emotional state, the specific pressure a person is under right now, not just their job title or industry.The Earn the Right Philosophy: De-Centering Yourself From the PitchLeslie's core philosophy is called Earn the Right: before asking for a meeting, a call, or a contract, a seller has to earn the right to that person's attention.That means shifting language away from "I'm an account executive at [Company] and we sell [Feature]" toward messaging built entirely around the buyer's specific situation and outcome.The shift shows up in something as simple as word choice. Leslie says the biggest difference she sees in client messaging is emails that stop being about I, we, and our, and start being about you and your.The Five-Filter Segmentation MethodLeslie's starting point for anyone new to territory planning is the five-filter method: four firmographic filters plus one demographic filter, layered together to turn a broad list into a hyper-specific one.She recommends starting with the demographic filter first, since narrowing a title, like going from "IT executives" down to just "CIO," forces a seller to ask what that exact role actually cares about.That one change alone, narrowing from a broad title to a specific one, has increased reply rates by more than 12 percent for her clients.A Real Client Example: Narrowing a Healthcare IT ListLeslie walked through a real example from a global software company: a list originally aimed at "IT executives in healthcare" got narrowed down using all five filters.The firmographic filters included US-only, hospitals specifically, revenue between 100 million and a billion dollars, and customer service departments over 100 people.They also added a signal: whether the hospital had missed a recent best-of list. That detail alone reframed the entire pitch around better patient outcomes and service rankings, instead of generic product features.Shorter Emails, Longer CadencesA common mistake Leslie sees even after sellers embrace outcome-focused messaging: trying to cram everything they want to say into a single email.Her fix is to trust the cadence. Spread the story about a buyer's likely outcomes across multiple touches instead of one dense pitch.That shift also means holding off on a hard call to action early in a sequence, and letting later touches carry more of that weight.Why "More" Isn't a StrategyWhen results slow down, Leslie sees most teams reach for the same lever: hire more reps, send more emails, make more calls.Her pushback is direct: more is never the answer on its own, because it skips the harder work of understanding who you're actually talking to.Good segmentation is what makes every other activity, calls, emails, cadences, actually worth doing in the first place.The Marriage of Art and Science in SalesLeslie pushes back on using AI as a way to fully remove the seller from the process. If a prospect is expected to give their time and attention to a reply, the seller owes them a message that was actually written with care.The science side is the data: confirming you're talking to the right person, at the right account, about the right thing.The art side is judgment: knowing that just because something is technically personalized, like mentioning a promotion, doesn't mean it's the most relevant or human thing to say next.One Thing to Do Right Now to Get More RelevantLeslie's starting point for any sales leader: audit your current sales messaging and count how often it uses I, we, my, and our instead of you and your.That audit gives you real data on how self-centered your outreach actually is, even if it doesn't feel that way from the inside.From there, use AI for research instead of mass automation. Learn what a specific persona at a specific type of account actually cares about, then build that into the message."More is not a strategy." — Leslie VenetzResourcesGrab Leslie's book, Profit-Generating Pipeline: A Proven Formula to Earn Trust and Drive Revenue.Visit Leslie's company, The Sales-Led GTM Agency.Connect with Andy Paul, Leslie's mentor and host of The Win Rate Podcast, on LinkedIn.Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way.Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content.CreditsAs one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and produced by Brightseed and Hill.

Imagine doubling your close rate and cutting your sales cycle in half. That's not a hypothetical. It's exactly what Pieter Leenhouts and his team did at Tax Guard, a Cogency Global company that sells to banks and financial institutions.Pieter walked me through exactly how they pulled it off, and it wasn't magic. It was math, structure, and a relentless focus on the front end of the pipeline.Why Their Sales Cycle Was So Long To Begin WithTax Guard's solution was new to the financial institutions they sold to, so reps had to spend real time educating buyers before those buyers even understood why they needed it.That education requirement, combined with deals that stalled out with the wrong contacts, created a long sales cycle and a lower close rate.Fixing it started with the pipeline itself, not with pushing reps to work harder.Give Every Rep the Right Size Pipeline, Not Just More DealsPieter's team found that around 120 opportunities was the right pipeline size for most of their account executives, though the number flexes based on how efficient a rep is.Instead of leaving reps to self source every opportunity, the team loads a portion of that pipeline for them, so reps spend more time working real opportunities and less time hunting for net new business.Their market of five to ten thousand financial institutions is well defined, which makes it possible to plan pipeline size with real precision instead of guessing.Split the Pipeline: 70 Percent Pre-Handraiser, 30 Percent Post-HandraiserOf those 120 opportunities, about 70 percent sit in the pre-handraiser stage, where reps are still working to connect with people.The remaining 30 percent sit in the post-handraiser stage, where there's already an active, ongoing conversation with the customer.That split keeps reps focused on outreach without starving the deals that are already moving.Marketing and Sales Load the Pipeline TogetherPieter is careful to point out that loading the pipeline isn't a sales-only effort. It's a collaboration between sales leadership and marketing leadership.Marketing helps identify and prioritize which accounts and departments actually fit where Tax Guard's solution applies.That partnership is part of why the team can hand reps a healthier mix of fast cycle and slow cycle opportunities instead of leaving it to chance.Why They Kept AEs on the Full Buyer Journey Instead of Handing Off to BDRsBecause their solution requires ongoing education, Pieter's team decided against using BDRs or SDRs to book appointments and hand off to AEs.The same person a buyer starts talking to needs to stay with them as a trusted advisor through the entire education process.Pieter is clear that this only makes sense because of how complex and unfamiliar their solution is. A more transactional sale can absolutely work with a BDR handoff.The Cadence: 17 Touches Over 70 DaysEach opportunity in the pipeline follows a defined cadence, roughly 17 touches over 70 days, with three to five contacts tied to each account.That structure turns follow-up into a math exercise. Once you know the number of opportunities, steps, and contacts, you know almost exactly how many activities a rep needs to complete each day.The cadence isn't automated. Reps still show up and do the work themselves, which keeps the process personal instead of robotic.Personalization Is What Makes the Math WorkPieter gets five to six hundred pitches a day himself, so he knows exactly what gets ignored: generic, unpersonalized outreach.His team uses AI to gather background information quickly, but the personal touch, referencing where someone went to school or what they care about, still has to come from the rep.That combination of structure and personalization is what actually breaks through the noise instead of just adding to it.How They Catch Reps Who Are Gaming Activity NumbersTo catch reps who rack up huge activity numbers without real substance, like hanging up before voicemail or blasting the same email to everyone, Pieter's team looks past raw activity totals.They review call recordings and email engagement to see whether real conversations are actually happening, not just whether the activity got logged.The goal isn't to catch people doing something wrong. It's to find the reps who are getting real engagement and figure out what they're doing differently so the whole team can replicate it.Weekly and Monthly Rhythms Keep the Team AccountableEvery rep gets a weekly one on one that covers both big strategic issues, like what's happening in the market or with competitors, and specific opportunities that need a plan to close.Once a month, Pieter's team reviews the front end metrics as a group: how many people are in cadence, how many emails are opening, how many real conversations are happening.They also track Net Promoter Score to measure how the sales experience actually felt to the buyer, not just whether a deal closed.Their Tech Stack: Salesforce, Gong, Gong Flows, and DelightedSalesforce is their core CRM, and Pieter says most of what makes it powerful is what gets plugged into it.Gong records and analyzes sales conversations, which lets the team track things like how often pricing objections come up and coach reps faster than they could otherwise.Gong Flows adds structured outreach sequences with AI built in, and Delighted measures NPS so the team can see how the buying experience felt from the customer's side.The Numbers Pieter's Team Watches Every WeekClose rate and pipeline velocity are the two headline numbers Pieter checks first, since they show whether the whole system is working.Underneath those, his team tracks how long deals sit in each of their seven pipeline stages, with alerts when something sits too long.They also watch the quality of the opportunities reps are given and how well each rep prospects into the right people, since strong activity numbers mean nothing if they aren't pointed at the right accounts."Activities create opportunities, opportunities create sales. The only thing we control is our activity level." — Pieter LeenhoutsResourcesConnect with Pieter Leenhouts on LinkedIn.Learn more about Tax Guard, a Cogency Global company.Keep track of your sales activity and boost your results with the Prospect Pro sales tool.Step up your sales game with Sales Mastermind. Get accountability, stay motivated, and tackle the blockers keeping you from hitting your goals.Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content.Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way.Sponsorship OffersThis episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.Are you tired of prospective clients not responding to your emails? Sign up for a free 60-day trial of LinkedIn Sales Navigator at linkedin.com/tse.This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.CreditsAs one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, <a...

Connie Kadansky was a highly motivated, highly goal-oriented salesperson, and she was still taking naps at two in the afternoon instead of prospecting.That contradiction sent her down a research rabbit hole that turned into a 29-year career studying sales call reluctance. Connie broke down for me why being too nice is one of the most expensive habits a seller can have, and what to do about it instead.The Napping Salesperson Who Became a Call Reluctance ExpertYears ago, Connie was a highly motivated, highly goal-oriented seller who kept finding herself taking naps at two in the afternoon instead of prospecting.That contradiction led her to a book called The Psychology of Sales Call Reluctance, written by two behavioral scientists, and eventually to their fear-free prospecting workshop and eight weeks of coaching.She's been a licensee with that research organization for 29 years, and still uses the same assessment to diagnose call reluctance in sellers today.Being Too Nice Is a Real, Named Problem: The YielderConnie's research identifies 16 types of sales call reluctance, and the most costly one is called the yielder.Yielders are great with people. They can open a conversation and build rapport easily, but they struggle to move a conversation past that rapport into the next real step.The belief driving it: the nicer I am, the more they'll like me, and the more likely they are to buy. Connie is direct that this isn't true, and it leads yielders to back off and hope the prospect closes the deal for them.The Three Types of Yes You'll Hear in a Sales ConversationA committed yes means the prospect is genuinely engaged and agreeing to a real next step.A counterfeit yes sounds positive but has nothing behind it, things like "send over some information" or "call me in two months."A confirmation yes happens when a prospect confirms something concrete, like who else is involved in the decision. Yielders are the most likely to accept counterfeit yeses at face value and build their forecast on them.Nice Versus Kind Aren't the Same ThingConnie draws a clear line: nice is agreeable and comfortable. Kind is asking a question the prospect has never considered, and actually working to solve their problem.Her definition of selling is solving people's problems for a profit, and staying kind means keeping the conversation pointed at the actual problem instead of just keeping things pleasant.If there's no real problem to solve, no amount of niceness changes that. The relationship alone was never going to be what closed the deal.Stop Overinvesting in RapportSpending too much time on small talk, weather, sports, general connection, feels productive to a yielder, but it isn't what closes business.Connie points out that most people don't buy because a rep shares their taste in baseball. They buy because the rep solved a real business problem.Her fix: be friendly, be kind, but get to the point quickly, and have real, prepared questions ready to move the conversation rather than lingering in rapport building.Understand the Objection, Don't Just Try to Overcome ItConnie's approach breaks from the standard sales training instinct to power through and overcome objections. Instead, she teaches getting curious about the objection itself.Yielders tend to treat objections as conflict, and conflict is exactly what they're trying to avoid, so they steer around it instead of naming it directly.Her technique borrows from Chris Voss's negotiation work: label the emotional component behind the objection out loud, which takes practice but opens up a much deeper conversation.Get Curious to Go Beyond the Surface-Level ProblemIt's easy to stop at a surface-level answer, like a prospect saying they need a new CRM, and move straight to a quote without digging further.Connie recommends calibrated what and how questions, prepared in advance, to get past the surface answer to what's actually driving the frustration.Her rule of thumb: curiosity isn't intellectual, it's emotional. The best sellers can set aside their own agenda long enough to keep asking, sometimes with something as simple as "what else?"How to Actually Fix This in YourselfConnie's advice starts with getting genuinely curious as a practice, not just a technique, including reading about curiosity and noticing how much more interesting curious people's lives tend to be.She recommends writing the actual inner dialogue down on paper: naming the specific fears behind the hesitation, like fear of pushback on price or fear of a difficult implementation.The goal isn't to lose the warmth that makes yielders likable. It's pointing that same personality at pulling out the truth instead of avoiding it."My definition for selling is solving people's problem for a profit." — Connie KadanskyResourcesConnect with Connie Kadansky on LinkedIn. She publishes an article on sales call reluctance about once a week.Visit Connie's company, Exceptional Sales Performance, to learn more about her coaching and the SPQ assessment.Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way.Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content.Sponsorship OffersThis episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.CreditsAs one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and produced by Brightseed and Hill.

An architect plans every brick before laying one. An archaeologist starts digging and adjusts based on what turns up. Adam Mark Louther says most sales reps try to sell like architects when the job actually calls for an archaeologist's mindset.Adam built his first sales skills knocking on doors selling exterior cleaning services, and today he coaches founders and sales teams on turning conversations into paying clients.We talked about why overthinking kills deals, how the first five minutes of a call sets the frame for everything after, and the two-call process he uses to close more business.Stop Overthinking and Take ActionAdam's biggest message: sales gets overcomplicated. Most people already have enough information to move, but they stall out gathering more instead of acting on what they have.People stuck in analysis paralysis are the ones who need every detail mapped out before they'll take a single step, and that costs them in a fast moving environment like sales.The reps and leaders who win aren't the ones with the perfect plan. They're the ones who execute, look at the results, and adjust from there.Think Like an Archaeologist, Not an ArchitectAdam's framework, borrowed from his mentor: an architect needs total certainty before building, since every measurement has to be right before anything gets built.An archaeologist works the opposite way. They dig in one spot, see what's there, and adjust based on what they find, since nobody knows exactly what's underground until they start.Sales works like archaeology, not architecture. You have a general idea of where to focus, then you test, learn, and adjust instead of waiting for certainty that never comes.There's No One Right Sales ProcessAdam pushes back on the idea that there's a single correct sales methodology to follow, whether that's MEDDIC, Challenger, or anything else.What matters is consistently doing the fundamentals: finding the real issue, talking to the right person, and building enough value that price stops being the objection.Getting stuck choosing the "perfect" framework is its own form of analysis paralysis, and it keeps people from ever getting real reps in.The First Five Minutes Sets the FrameA call handled poorly in the first few minutes can cost the entire sale, because that's when the frame and the agenda get set.Whoever asks the questions controls the call. Without setting that frame early, a buyer with a strong personality will take over the conversation entirely.Adam learned this the hard way early in his career, watching experienced buyers steer his calls before he had a structure in place to prevent it.Three Parts of Opening a Call: Icebreaker, Frame, AgendaThe icebreaker is genuine, unscripted small talk. It should feel like a normal conversation, not a routine, and it should be dropped if the other person clearly isn't in the mood for it.The frame reminds the buyer why the call is happening and how they got connected in the first place, since a call booked weeks ago often gets attended on autopilot without that context.The agenda tells the buyer exactly how the call will run, before a single discovery question gets asked. Adam explicitly tells prospects he'll ask questions first, then invite them to a second call if it's a genuine fit.Always Book the Next Meeting From the MeetingAdam uses what he calls BAMFAM, book a meeting from a meeting. If a prospect says they'll "arrange something" later, that call almost never happens.The second call needs to get booked on the calendar before the first call ends, since people get busy and forget otherwise.This is a small habit that protects momentum on every deal in the pipeline.Build a Personalized Game Plan Before the Second CallBetween the two calls, Adam reviews the discovery call transcript and notes, then builds a plan using the prospect's own language and specific pain points.On the second call, he walks through that plan, framed as free coaching rather than a pitch, which is what makes prospects want to see more detail instead of feeling pitched to.The transition into the actual offer is simple: he tells them the plan isn't quite as simple as the summary, offers to show them more detail if they want it, and lets the prospect self-select into hearing the pitch.How to Actually Start Taking ActionAdam's advice for anyone stuck in analysis paralysis: first figure out what's actually driving the hesitation, whether it's fear of rejection or something else, since you can't fix what you haven't named.After that, find the smallest possible action you can take today, not the biggest.Small wins build confidence, and that confidence compounds until the actions that felt out of reach start to feel normal."Think about what is the smallest action you can take today. Gain confidence from every action you take, and it compounds." — Adam Mark LoutherResourcesConnect with Adam on Instagram: @adammarklouther. He offers a free 45-minute discovery call to talk through where your sales process may be losing deals.Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way.Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content.Sponsorship OffersThis episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.CreditsAs one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and produced by Brightseed and Hill.

Your prospect isn't only buying the product or the price. They're buying you. That's the idea behind one of Jordan Harbinger's most popular keynotes, and it's why we're pulling this archive conversation back out.Jordan went from a bored kid who got into trouble to a Wall Street attorney to the host of one of the biggest interview podcasts around. And the thread running through all of it is relationships. The principles here haven't aged a bit. This episode explores all of it.Why Jordan Started Studying This in the First PlaceJordan assumed people with strong networks were either born into them or got there through some elite club or school connection.That changed on Wall Street, when he realized everyone around him was just as smart and just as hardworking. Being the smartest or the hardest worker in the room was no longer a real advantage.A partner at his firm who was rarely in the office turned out to be out generating business through relationships, not hiding from work. That single conversation changed how Jordan thought about his entire career.Relationships Are the Foundation, Not the Finishing TouchJordan compares skipping networking to building a house without a foundation. You don't add the roof and windows first and figure out the foundation later. It doesn't work that way with a business or a career either.The most common mistake people make is pushing networking to later. Entrepreneurs tell themselves they'll focus on relationships once the website, the product, and the ads are all dialed in first.By the time most people realize they skipped it, it's already cost them. Jordan points to the classic moment of watching someone else get promoted to become your boss, when the real difference often wasn't skill. It was who built relationships along the way.Skip Networking Events That Aren't CuratedJordan's rule: avoid any networking event open to the general public. If anyone can walk in, there's a strong chance the room is full of people looking to take, not give.He describes his own experience at open mixers: a rotating cast of financial planners, car salesmen, and life coaches all working the room for a stale cookie and a captive audience.A curated event, like a real chamber of commerce meeting full of actual business owners, is worth your time. If you can't get invited to one, Jordan's advice is simple: build your own.Why Giving First Actually Scales Better Than ClosingJordan contrasts the old "always be closing" mindset with what he calls ABG, always be giving. Closing limits you to the handful of people in a room who happen to need exactly what you sell.Giving opens up nearly everyone in the room, because you're looking for what they need instead of trying to match them to your offer.Jordan's example: instead of pitching graphic design services to someone who doesn't need them, he'd ask what they're working on, then connect them to someone in his network who can genuinely help. That's scalable in a way that chasing a single sale never is.Don't Keep ScoreGiving only works if it's not secretly transactional. Jordan warns against what he calls keeping score: doing favors while quietly expecting something back later.He illustrates this with a story about a friend who drove a neighbor to the airport repeatedly, expecting it to eventually turn into a relationship, then got upset when it didn't. The resentment showed up in every interaction afterward, and the other person had no idea why.The same pattern shows up constantly in sales. A rep gives a free tip, then pitches the very next interaction. That turns a relationship into a quid pro quo, and people can feel it immediately.Dig the Well Before You're ThirstyJordan's core advice: build relationships long before you need them. Waiting until you need a job or a referral to start networking is like keeping a spare tire in the trunk and only thinking about it after you're already stuck on the highway.His practical exercise: write down the ten people you'd call if you lost your job tomorrow, then reach out to them this week, while you don't need anything from them.That single habit, reaching out with nothing to ask for, is what separates people with a real network from people scrambling to build one under pressure."You have to give first, not just because it's a great Zig Ziglar quote or a Brian Tracy principle. It's because it's logistically easier for me to find a need that you have than it is to match a need you have with a service that I provide." — Jordan HarbingerResourcesListen to The Jordan Harbinger Show, wherever you get your podcasts, or visit JordanHarbinger.com.Check out 6 Minute Networking, Jordan's free course on building real relationships.Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way.Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content.Sponsorship OffersThis episode is brought to you in part by HubSpot.You don't become the world's most valuable women's sports franchise by accident. Angel City Football Club did it with a little help from HubSpot, unifying their website, email, and fan experience in one platform, and growing their database 300 percent in two years. Visit hubspot.com to hear how HubSpot can help your team grow better.This episode is brought to you in part by LinkedIn.LinkedIn Sales Navigator uses AI-powered recommendations and real-time account insight to help you spend less time searching and more time selling, all powered by LinkedIn's network of over 1.2 billion professionals. Try it free for 60 days at linkedin.com/sell.This episode is brought to you in part by Blue Mango Studios.Imagine using a podcast as a lead generation source, attracting your ideal customer while getting qualified leads. Find out more at bluemangostudios.com.CreditsThe Sales Evangelist Podcast is created by the Sales Evangelist Sales Training Organization. It is produced by TSE Studios. Our podcast production manager is Nancy Paul. Our audio engineer is Jerchin Obyale. Our video engineer is Dasan Kunado. Guest management is done by Jill Vito and Christy Vertus. Our content writer is Carlisa Galbreath. Our graphic designer is Urvish Savalia, and Donald C. Kelly is your host and executive producer.

Less than ten percent. That's how many highly targeted emails actually get opened. In this archive episode, pulled from an old Sales From the Street segment, I'm breaking down exactly what I look for in a cold email before I'll even open it, let alone reply. If email opens are a struggle for you right now, this one still holds up.Why Most Cold Emails Never Get OpenedPeople are buried in email. I was already at 67 messages by mid-morning when I recorded this, and I expected to hit 100 by the end of the day. Executives at bigger companies get even more.Less than ten percent of even a highly targeted email actually gets opened.If you want to land in that ten percent, everything starts with standing out immediately, not with writing a longer pitch.Your Subject Line Has to Earn the OpenThe subject line is the first thing anyone sees, so it has to catch attention completely on its own.A common mistake, according to MailChimp, is a subject line that doesn't actually reflect what's in the email. Whatever you promise in the subject line has to match the message inside.The subject line also needs to spark curiosity instead of pitching outright. It should raise a question in the reader's mind that makes them want to open it.Personalize the Subject Line With Real ResearchI referenced an example from Sales Hacker where a rep researched a prospect's Twitter, found out he was a Manchester United fan, and wrote the subject line, "Why a Man U fan is the best fit for sales enablement?"That kind of specific, researched detail makes a prospect stop and think the email is actually about them, not a mass blast.The goal is to find something real about the person, then build a question around it that gets them thinking before they've even opened the email.Your Opening Line Has to Deliver on the Subject Line's PromiseOnce someone opens the email because of the subject line, the first sentence has to immediately pay that off.In the Manchester United example, the email opened by comparing Manchester United fans to sales enablement leaders, tying the personal hook directly into the pitch.Whatever personal detail earned the open needs to connect naturally to the product or service being pitched, right from the start.Write Your Email Like the Letter FI picked this up from The Sales Development Playbook: structure the email so it looks like the letter F. A longer first line, a shorter second line, and lines that keep tapering down after that.Long emails are one of my biggest pet peeves, especially when people pitch me to be a podcast guest. I'm upfront about it: I won't read a long email, and it's likely to get deleted or ignored.Keeping an email close to the length of a text message makes it far more likely the prospect actually replies.Keep the Call to Action Simple and DirectEvery email needs a clear call to action that asks for a specific response, not something vague.Simple questions work best, like asking which day works best or whether the topic is something they'd be interested in.The easier the ask, the easier it is for the prospect to just hit reply, which is the entire goal of a cold email in the first place.Skip the Fake PersonalizationI can spot a scraped, auto-generated email immediately. My LinkedIn profile reads "Donald C. Kelly," so any email that uses that exact version instead of how I'd actually be addressed gives itself away.Prospects notice the same thing. Sending "Hi Barbara S. Smith" instead of "Hi Barbara" is an instant tell that the email isn't personalized.Real personalization means using the way someone would actually be addressed, then tying the rest of the email back to something specific about them.Tie Your Pitch to What Actually Matters to ThemThe best cold emails connect directly to whatever the recipient actually cares about. For me, that's downloads and value for my audience, so a strong podcast pitch speaks directly to that.Figure out the real business driver for the person you're emailing, then show how what you're offering moves that number, instead of just describing your product.Combine that with the F-shaped structure and a simple call to action, and the email does its one job: move the person to reply and take the next step."Keep it simple. The simpler it is, the better. The easier it is for me to hit reply and give you a quick answer, I'm game, and I'm all in it." — Donald C. KellyResourcesCheck out The Sales Development Playbook by Trish Bertuzzi, the book behind the F-shaped email structure.Join TSE Hustlers League this semester to improve your win rate and move deals through your pipeline.Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content.Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way.Sponsorship OffersThis episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.CreditsAs one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and produced by Brightseed and Hill.

Three appointments a week. Twelve a month. If you want a consistent pipeline, you have to know exactly what it takes to get there.The problem is that most reps don't stop prospecting because they don't know how. They stop because meetings, active deals, and everything else on their calendar slowly take over. A few missed prospecting sessions turn into a weak pipeline, and then the scramble begins.In this solo episode, I break down the discipline framework I coach sales reps to use: set a specific goal, work backward from the number, protect the time needed to hit it, and create accountability around the activity. Once you know your numbers, you can stop guessing whether your pipeline will be full next month and start building toward it.Why Busy Reps Still End Up With Empty PipelinesMost reps who fall off on prospecting aren't too busy, they have a discipline problem.The common pattern is a quick sprint, a day or two of hard prospecting, then tapering off once meetings and existing opportunities take over.Fixing that starts with three things: a clear goal, a real plan, and accountability.Set a Clear, Specific GoalStart with a real number, not a vague intention. If the goal is three appointments a week, that's twelve a month.Work backward from that number to see what it actually produces. If thirty percent of those appointments convert and the average deal size is ten thousand dollars, that goal turns into real revenue you can calculate.This has to come from prospecting specifically, not from marketing leads or referrals, since those sources aren't predictable enough to plan around.Build a Real Plan Around the NumbersOnce the goal is set, break it into the actual outreach required to hit it. Twelve appointments might take 150 meaningful outreach activities across LinkedIn, phone calls, and email.Spread that number across the week and it turns into a simple daily target, for example twenty outreach activities a day over five days.The plan only works if those activities are aimed at the right people. This isn't random outreach. It's outreach to an ICP with a real trigger and a problem the rep can actually solve.Block the Time and Protect It Like a Client MeetingSet aside dedicated prospecting time on the calendar every day, and treat it as sacred, not something that gets bumped for anything less than a real emergency.Vary the time of day across the week, since calling the same people at the same time every day just means catching them at their busiest moment more often than not.Putting it on the calendar is what keeps prospecting from quietly disappearing once the day fills up with meetings and existing deals.Track Every Activity As You Do ItPhysically tracking each activity, even something as simple as a tally on paper, turns prospecting into a game instead of a chore.Watching the count climb toward the daily target builds momentum, because hitting that number becomes the signal that the appointment is on its way.There's a psychological win here too. Even on a day when the outcome hasn't shown up yet, finishing the activity gives a real sense of accomplishment, which matters in a job that includes a lot of rejection.Add Accountability On Top of the PlanA goal and a plan aren't enough on their own. There has to be a return and report, some way the rep has to answer for whether the work got done.This can be as simple as a one-on-one check-in or a message in a group chat confirming the day's activities are complete.Giving a rep the latitude to manage their own day works best when it's paired with a clear expectation that they report back on it.Pearson's Law: What Gets Measured ImprovesPearson's Law says that when performance is measured, performance improves. When it's measured and reported to someone else, the improvement happens even faster.None of this requires reaching out to people randomly. It means knowing your numbers, knowing your KPIs, and running the same plan every single day.Do this consistently, and there's no version of this where a rep doesn't build the pipeline they need. This is what separates top sellers from everyone else."When performance is measured, performance improves. When performance is measured and reported back, the rate of performance increases dramatically." — Donald C. KellyResourcesGrab the Sales Evangelist Sales Planner on Amazon to help you set your goals, plan your activities, and stay accountable.Keep track of your sales activity and boost your results with the Prospect Pro sales tool.Step up your sales game with Sales Mastermind. Get accountability, stay motivated, and tackle the blockers keeping you from hitting your goals.Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content.Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way.Sponsorship OffersThis episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.CreditsAs one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and produced by Brightseed and Hill.

Most salespeople treat follow-up like an afterthought: a quick check-in email, then nothing. I sat down with Corrie George, founder of YESA and Canada First, and former president of Grant Cardone Canada, to talk about the follow-up system that's actually helped him close hundreds of millions of dollars in sales.Most Sales Are Won After the Fifth ContactAccording to Salesforce, less than 20 percent of sales happen in the first few points of contact.82 percent of sales happen between the fifth and twelfth point of contact.Most sales reps stop following up long before they reach that window, which means they're walking away from the majority of their pipeline.Know Where Your Buyer Really Is in the Buying CycleBefore you follow up, figure out where the buyer actually is. Some people aren't even aware they have the problem you solve yet.Corrie says salespeople often compete with a purchase in a completely different category, not just a direct competitor.Understanding that stage changes how, and how often, you should be reaching out.The Four Types of Follow-Up: Information, Education, Entertainment, and ServiceCorrie breaks follow-up into four categories, and they have to happen in order: information, education, entertainment, then service.Skipping the order, especially jumping to entertainment before you've built credibility, makes a rep look unprofessional instead of likable.Information Follow-Up Covers Your Product and CompanyThis is the follow-up most reps already do: spec sheets, product comparisons, and warranty details.Corrie also uses this stage to introduce the buyer to the service team they'll work with after the sale, so promises made during the pitch feel real.Education Follow-Up Turns You Into an AdvisorEducation follow-up gives the buyer something useful whether they buy from you or not, like an honest guide to navigating your industry.Corrie points to the movie Air, where Nike won over the Jordan family by telling them exactly what to expect from competitors before ever pitching a shoe.This step also means telling buyers the hard questions they should ask your competitors, even when it makes your own company look more exposed.Entertainment Comes After You've Earned TrustEntertainment, things like memes, a pizza delivery, or a Rubik's Cube with a clever note, only works once you've already built credibility.Trying to build rapport before trust exists makes a buyer more suspicious, not less.Service Follow-Up Closes the LoopService follow-up means offering something small and free, like a low cost version of your product, a free workshop, or a discounted service, to prove your competence before the big ask.It comes last because you don't want to give away value to buyers who are still early in the process.Physical Follow-Up Beats DigitalEvery digital follow-up competes with hundreds of unread emails and notifications already on a buyer's phone.A physical card, book, or package sits on someone's desk with no competition, and Corrie treats that as one of the most underused tools in follow-up.Play the Long Game With Every ProspectSome deals will close this month, some in three months, and some won't close for a year. Reps need to plan follow-up around that reality instead of giving up early.Corrie's rule: do something today that your future self will thank you for."Don't expect him to spend fifty grand with you if you won't spend fifty dollars on him." — Corrie GeorgeResourcesLearn more about Corrie's sales trade school, YESA.Learn more about Corrie's home security company, Canada First.Keep track of your sales activity and boost your results with the Prospect Pro sales tool.Step up your sales game with Sales Mastermind. Get accountability, stay motivated, and tackle the blockers keeping you from hitting your goals.Visit Blue Mango Studios for help creating podcast production content.Join our LinkedIn cohort and learn to prospect the right way.Sponsorship OffersThis episode is brought to you in part by Hubspot.With HubSpot sales hubs, your data tools and teams join a single platform to close deals and turn prospects into pipelines. Try it for yourself at hubspot.com/sales.This episode is brought to you in part by the TSE Sales Foundation.Improve your connection on LinkedIn and land three or five appointments with our LinkedIn prospecting course. Go to the salesevangelist.com/linkedin.CreditsAs one of our podcast listeners, we value your opinion and always want to improve the quality of our show. Complete our two-minute survey here: thesalesevangelist.com/survey. We’d love for you to join us for our next episodes by tuning in on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher, or Spotify. Audio provided by Free SFX, Soundstripe, and Bensound. Other songs used in the episodes are as follows: The Organ Grinder written by Bradley Jay Hill, performed by Bright Seed, and produced by Brightseed and Hill.