Nicholas Carr on Building Attention in a Digital Age

Doomscrolling, algorithms, artificial intelligence—these concepts have become so familiar to us and such a part of our everyday monotony that they’ve become jokes. But Nicholas Carr isn’t laughing.  Carr’s work in tech journalism has given him a front-row seat to watch the shift of culture around technology over the last decade. His recent book, Superbloom: How Technologies of Connection Tear Us Apart, explores his observations—and the news isn’t great. Online platforms and algorithms seem to know us better than our churches, families, or friends do—especially when the products we glanced at for a fleeting moment now fill our timelines and social media feeds. But we already knew that, right?  And still we face obstacles to capture our own conscious minds. Carr’s work is a call for a cultural revolution to reclaim the human experience from the clutches of technology. Especially when what’s at stake is the understanding of community, which finds its roots in the ability to focus to form empathy for others. This conversation shines a light on the profound need for deeper connections and the importance of attention in fostering meaningful relationships. Moore and Carr also talk about the mirage of screens as socialization, an AI priest (whose story doesn’t end well), positive outcomes from machines and technology (gasp! Is it possible?), and the way separating from technology might feel an awful lot like excommunication.  If you need to be emboldened to cut your screen time or make a change in the way you use technology for your sake and the sake of future generations, this conversation may be the thing you need. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: Superbloom: How Technologies of Connection Tear Us Apart by Nicholas Carr “The Vacation” Wendell Berry poem The Empathy Diaries by Sherry Turkle Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For Independence Day, we are running an episode of particular relevance from our archives. Could the Constitution provide the antidote to polarization? Yuval Levin thinks so. The director of social, cultural, and constitutional studies at the American Enterprise Institute, Levin is the author of a new book titled American Covenant. In it, and during this episode, Levin identifies the reasons people feel as though America is at a breaking point, as well as meaningful opportunities for reuniting. He and Moore consider why fragmentation is happening, the naiveté of cynicism, and ways the party system has—and hasn’t—worked well for the United States. They discuss partisanship, the potential upsides of ranked-choice voting in primaries, and the importance of seeing one another not primarily as political beings but as human beings. Yuval Levin’s work: American Covenant, How the Constitution Unified Our Nation—and Could Again by Yuval Levin American Enterprise Institute National Affairs The New Atlantis National Review The New York Times Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: The Abolition of Man by C. S. Lewis Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by J. D. Vance “My Unsettling Interview with Steve Bannon” by David Brooks The West Wing: “Night Five” The Sword and the Trowel by Charles Spurgeon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gary Haugen has seen the darkest things imaginable. He’s spent decades fighting human traffickers, corrupt governments, and mobs that enslave men, women, and children to sell them for sex and profit. But he’s not one bit cynical. As president of International Justice Mission, Haugen has worked to abolish modern-day slavery and to put the bad guys in jail while building the kind of institutions that ensure people are never treated that way again.   In this episode, Russell and Haugen discuss the objection that “justice issues” distract from the gospel. They also talk about how people can know whether God is calling them to some area of justice and mercy and about how those who are doing this kind of work can keep from burnout or despair. Haugen quoted from C. S. Lewis’s Screwtape Letters: “Despair is a greater sin than any of the sins which provoke it.” He talks about how he learned from the writings of Dallas Willard and others the kinds of spiritual disciplines he needs to stay grounded and hopeful. The two also talk about going to church 13 times a week, the complex psychology of an oppressor, the power of art and music to move us to action, practical steps toward seeking justice, and of course, Wendell Berry. Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here for 25% off a subscription to CT magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Are we in the last days? Yes. Everything from the empty tomb onward are the last days. Could Jesus return at any moment? Absolutely. But can we track that coming based on the bombing schedules of Israel or Iran? No. Russell reads a piece from his newsletter every Monday on the podcast but there’s more to be found in the weekly email! Sign up ⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What do Andy Warhol, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Flannery O’Connor, and Bono all have in common? According to writer and cultural historian Paul Elie, they’re “cryptoreligious.” Their art isn’t about affirming doctrine—it’s about invoking mystery, longing, and spiritual disquiet. In a culture where religious belief is often either rigidly defined or entirely dismissed, these artists dwell in the in between. They don’t preach—but they provoke. Their work invites us into important questions, questions to which the artists themselves often don’t have answers.   This week, Russell Moore talks with Paul Elie, author of The Life You Save May Be Your Own: An American Pilgrimage—Russell’s favorite biography—and the new book The Last Supper: Art, Faith, Sex, and Controversy in the 1980s. Together they explore how religion haunts the work of artists like Dylan (especially his “Christian era”), Cohen (“Hallelujah”), singer Sinéad O’Connor (her unforgettable Saturday Night Live moment), and even Andy Warhol’s more-than-15 minutes of fame.   If you’ve ever felt as if a song lyric or a painting was almost a prayer—or wondered why some of our greatest artists can’t seem to stop brushing up against the divine—this conversation is for you. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: The Last Supper: Art, Faith, Sex, and Controversy in the 1980s by Paul Elie The Life You Save May Be Your Own: An American Pilgrimage by Paul Elie Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here for 25% off a subscription to CT magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former governor John Kasich has been a lot of things: US presidential candidate, governor, political commentator, congressman. And throughout his career, he witnessed faith communities of all religions come together and support not only each other but also their communities at-large. His new book, Heaven Help Us, reflects his observation of this dynamic and the ways faith communities are uniquely positioned to effect change in a broken society. The former governor also shares his takes on health care reform, how losing his parents in a car accident brought him to faith, how he fared after losing the presidential candidacy, and how to quench the fear of impending political chaos.  If you find yourself looking around your community or your country or the world and you think, What can one person, church, or community do to change something so overwhelming?, this conversation is for you. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: Heaven Help Us: How Faith Communities Inspire Hope, Strengthen Neighborhoods, and Build the Future by John Kasich Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here for 25% off a subscription to CT magazine. “The Russell Moore Show” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producer: Clarissa Moll Host: Russell Moore Producer: Leslie Thompson Associate Producers: McKenzie Hill Senior Producer: Matt Stevens Audio engineering by Kevin Morris Video producer: Sam Cedar Theme Song: “Citizens” by Jon Guerra Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

American evangelical Christians ought to care about the dismantling of PEPFAR. Russell reads a piece from his newsletter every Monday on the podcast but there’s more to be found in the weekly email! Sign up ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does a Shire full of hobbits in Middle-Earth, a county full of farmers in Kentucky, and a wardrobe full of a lion have in common? For Russell Moore and singer/songwriter/author Andrew Peterson, they were all a way to find home.    In this episode—recorded inside Peterson’s book-lined Chapter House in Nashville, right down the road from Moore—the two talk about the authors who, by God’s grace, helped hold their faith together when it could have come apart. From the wisdom of Wendell Berry to the imagination of C.S. Lewis to the honesty of Frederick Buechner, these authors gave a clarity that helped these two keep the faith.    This isn’t just a literary conversation. It’s about how God uses stories, sentences, and sometimes even sword-wielding mice to reach people in moments of doubt, disillusionment, or despair. Along the way, they talk about what it means to read widely, to hold onto wonder, and to be the kind of Christian who can still be surprised by joy.   They also somehow end up talking about Moby Dick, Dungeons & Dragons, and how ChatGPT was wrong and right about what books each of them would take to a desert island.    Books and authors mentioned in this episode include: Jayber Crow by Wendell Berry A Room Called Remember and Telling Secrets by Frederick Buechner The Chronicles of Narnia, Till We Have Faces, Mere Christianity, and more by C.S. Lewis Godric by Frederick Buechner David Copperfield by Charles Dickens Four Quartets by T.S. Eliot Orthodoxy by G.K. Chesterton The Yearling by Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings A Long Obedience in the Same Direction by Eugene Peterson Moby Dick by Herman Melville Reading Genesis by Marilynne Robinson The Pleasures of Reading in an Age of Distraction by Alan Jacobs And selections from Andrew’s own works: Adorning the Dark, The God of the Garden, and The Wingfeather Saga Whether you’re deep in faith, on the brink of losing it, or just looking for something beautiful to read, this conversation will remind you why the right book at the right moment can do more than explain—it can point to new life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What do Albert Einstein, the Jesus People,  and Donald Trump all have in common? According to historian and journalist Molly Worthen, they’re all part of a surprising American story about the strange, magnetic force we call charisma. In this episode, Russell Moore sits down with Worthen to explore the themes of her new book, Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History, and why understanding charisma may be the key to understanding American religion, politics, and even ourselves.   From revival tents to campaign rallies to cable news sets, Worthen tracks five distinct types of charisma that have shaped our country’s imagination—from JFK to your local megachurch pastor. Why do some people command a room without saying a word, while others say everything and still lose the crowd?   Moore and Worthen dig into the seduction and danger of charisma, its role in religious experience, and how it can drive both conversion and cults of personality. They also reflect on Worthen’s own journey from atheism to faith, and why figures such as Tim Keller and J.D. Greear played unexpected roles in that story. Plus: the only time Russell Moore has ever found himself in a room full of unconscious people, all but him on the floor—and what that has to do with spiritual longing.   If you’ve ever wondered why we’re drawn to certain voices, movements, or personalities—and how those forces shape the American soul—this conversation will leave you thinking, and maybe even unsettled. Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include: Spellbound by Molly Worthen Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here for 25% off a subscription to CT magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The greatest threat to the church is not what we think it is. Russell reads a piece from his newsletter every Monday on the podcast but there’s more to be found in the weekly email! Sign up ⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices