264 - HR buys healthcare for half of America, but the system’s broken — here’s how to “moneyball” it

Darren Murph, a leading voice on distributed work and former leader at GitLab, Zillow, and Andela returned to the show.We dug into the remote first maturity scale, the four-pillar operating model (knowledge, project, self, performance), and how to build an “org brain.”---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Learn more about TopicFlow.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live Austin.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (04:42) Darren’s new chapter: going independent and why the timing was right(08:46) What’s changed since 2–3 years ago in remote/distributed work(09:13) Identity crisis in companies and the RTO narrative(11:09) The “operating system” of a company: where communication breaks(12:45) What ELTs are really discussing now(14:07) Under-the-radar topic: performance management as “fix the car, not just the driver”(16:40) AI readiness requires distributed-friendly systems (recording, documentation)(18:01) Remote-first maturity scale: where firms think they are vs. where they land(19:44) Knowledge management as the first pillar and the “org brain” concept(21:50) The four-pillar framework: knowledge → project → self → performance(24:13) “Gold in, gold out”: documentation and meeting capture fuel AI(26:00) Exemplars and ownership: Atlassian, GitLab, Doist; treating knowledge like a product(28:18) Tools and handbooks: Notion, public handbooks, getting started fast(30:13) MVP of an org brain and how functions build it out(34:34) Project management done right vs. 47 one-on-ones; insurance/IT ticketing analogies(37:47) Why this matters: time as compensation; segue to self-management(39:59) Team agreements and operating with flexibility(42:16) Measuring performance better: meetings, survey data, retention(46:19) Legacy reviews vs. modern, continuous performance practices (Juro example)(47:10) Organizational psychology: complexity theory and the pull back to “coherence”(54:03) Rapid-fire questions(58:43) Where to find Darren and work with him---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Brandon Weber, Co-founder & CEO of Nava Benefits, joined us on The Modern People Leader.We talked about why benefits have become the second-largest company expense — and how HR can “moneyball” their healthcare spend, cut down on benefits-related admin work, and deliver better employee outcomes through the emerging “alt marketplace.”---- Nava Links:🔗 Learn more about Nava.MPL Links:🔗 Buy your ticket for MPL Live Austin.🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (07:07) Brandon’s Founder Journey and 10-Month Sabbatical Spark(14:06) The Broker as Market Maker: Distribution Problem in Employer Healthcare(16:27) Why Benefits Are Strategic: From Cost Center to Business Lever(18:28) Benefits Jumped to #2 Company Expense and a Talent Magnet(20:53) HR Holds the Healthcare Purse Strings for Half of America(21:15) Being Strategic with a Small People Team(21:39) Explosion of Benefits Complexity (from ~6 to ~20 offerings)(26:47) Status-Quo “Stockholm Syndrome” and Breaking the Cycle(28:51) 2025 Renewal Pain Driving Change(31:02) Automating Benefits Admin(33:11) The “Alt Marketplace” of Health Plans, PBMs, and Point Solutions(33:39) Examples of "Alt Marketplace": Garner Health Network Design; Sidecar Health Price Transparency(40:58) Agentic Future: Auditing Carrier Bills and Auto-Remediation(42:18) Renewal Season AI: From Spreadsheet Chaos to Real-Time Scenario Modeling(43:16) Zapier Example: Benefits Help Desk and the Real Cost of Repeated Questions(45:06) Nava’s AI Strategy for HR: Support, Admin Automation, Smarter Spend(47:35) “Moneyball” Your Benefits Spend with Data Science(48:06) Why Brokers’ 20-Year Spreadsheets Fail HR and CFOs(51:05) Rapid Fire Questions---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Andrew Golden, Chief People Officer at RetailNext, joined us on The Modern People Leader.We talked about how he’s driving transformation, why HR and IT must partner more closely, the power of building lightweight AI solutions in-house, and why he’s optimistic about the future of people teams.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.🔗 Talk to the team at Ethena.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (10:15) Burnout, Leaving RetailNext & Working in Family Accounting Firm(11:49) Explaining RetailNext’s Business: Hardware + data insights for retail stores(13:30) Why Andrew Returned to RetailNext & Rejoining After Private Equity Acquisition(16:35) Restarting PeopleOps as a Product at RetailNext(17:59) Partnering with PX Sapiens & Lean PX Design Principles(20:16) Portugal Trip Lightbulb Moment: Rethinking HRBP model(22:21) Moving Away from Traditional Org Charts → Workflow Alignment(24:16) Practical Application: Embedding People Team into Business Workflows(26:36) The Three Workflows: Pre-Customer, Post-Customer, and Transitions(28:08) EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) & Core Processes in HR(29:50) How EOS + PeopleOps as a Product Fit Together(32:18) Redefining “Strategic HR” as Operationally Relevant HR(35:20) Advice for Skeptics: Why Agile PX Matters(36:57) Building HR Tools with AI: Andrew’s Employee Engagement Platform(40:33) The SaaS vs. Build Trade-Off: Flexibility with AI Tools(42:58) Why Now Is the Time: Optimism in HR’s Future(59:36) How HR and IT Partner Together at RetailNext---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Gena Smith, CHRO at LVMH North America, joined us on The Modern People Leader. We talked about how she sparked an AI transformation across 75 LVMH brands, why HR should lead AI change management, and how to reframe AI adoption as a cultural and creative advantage.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Talk to the team at Ethena.🔗 Request a demo of Workleap.MPL Links:🔗Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:07) Gena’s Career Journey: From Texas to Global HR Leader(10:34) Passion for People & Culture Sparked Abroad(11:01) Serving on the Board of Parsons School of Design(13:26) What’s in the LVMH Portfolio (and What People Don’t Know)(16:55) The Culture at LVMH: Pride, Legacy, and Humility(18:53) Managing People & Culture Across 75 Brands(19:57) LVMH’s Decentralized Structure & Core Values(22:48) How HR Anchors Culture Across the Group(24:11) The WSJ Conference that Sparked Her AI Learning Journey(26:34) Building the HR AI Task Force & Their First Discoveries(30:02) The “It Feels Like Cheating” Employee Mindset Around AI(31:29) Why Marketing the AI Message Internally is Key(32:33) Using AI in Creative Studios & Operational Areas(36:28) Tackling Fear of AI & Job Security Concerns(37:18) Why Upskilling is the Real Future-Proofing Strategy(39:31) Normalizing AI Adoption & Creating Comfort(42:21) Hot Take: HR Will Write the Blueprint for AI in Business(43:49) Why HR Must Be on Every AI Governance Board(45:14) Scaling Change Management Through Internal Campaigns(46:29) Building LVMH’s AI Marketing Campaign from Scratch(48:43) Advice for HR Leaders: Start Your Learning Journey Now(50:54) Why Human Skills Will Become the Ultimate Currency---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

What happens when you put a mic in front of HR leaders and ask them for their unfiltered takes on AI?In this episode, Daniel and Stephen recap their trip to HR Tech — where they recorded 12 quick-hit “AI Confessions” from folks they met on the conference room floor. From agentic workflows and custom GPT chaos to the real blockers slowing down AI adoption, this one’s packed with candid insights from the front lines.You’ll hear what HR leaders from companies like Lumen, Articulate, and Airbnb.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Talk to the team at Ethena.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (06:00) HR Tech debrief setup and the “non-Expo Expo” vision(08:26) Vendor noise: everyone promises everything; how to curate for quality(10:13) Trend: agentic workflows vs. true autonomous agents(13:16) “One UI to rule them all” and platforms trying to do it all(16:18) The HR “sandbox” idea and customization/vibe-coding future(18:02) Governance should come first, not last(19:24) New format intro: “AI Confessions” clip series(20:10) Articulate: hype vs. reality, custom GPT maintenance tax(24:36) Snapshot pain: stale docs and refresh gaps in tools(25:04) Why an org brain/source of truth matters(26:58) Biggest blockers called out: connectivity across the stack, tech limits(30:57) Magic wand from Clip 1: payroll automation and smarter resume parsing(34:43) Lumen: “AI diffusion,” empathy-first change and upskilling(36:32) Creating safe spaces to experiment; role-by-role reskilling(45:35) Myths and multi-agent maturity: where we really are(48:20) Senior vs. junior agents; linking SMEs to AI via the org brain(55:05) Airbnb: scouting the recruiting tech stack(57:33) Is HR behind on tech adoption compared to other functions(1:00:49) Biggest blocker: skills and resourcing gap in HR/TA teams(1:03:32) Upskilling in practice: stipends, bootcamps, internal rhythms(1:05:27) TA automation targets: scheduling, intake, JD drafts, calibration slates(1:06:09) Change management is the hard part---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Angela Crossman, Hernan Chiosso, and Jean-Luc Charles joined us to debrief the “Yellow Pod” conversation from MPL Live NYC and what the group is actually doing with AI at work. We covered opportunities vs blockers, “AI as coach” guardrails, why HR should own enablement, actionable next steps, and predictions for the AI-powered workplace.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Talk to the team at Ethena. 🔗 Book a quick walk through of Nava HQ.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (09:40) Why structured spaces help leaders make sense of AI noise(11:40) Untangling AI talk: personal vs professional; HR practice vs company strategy(12:47) State of adoption: ahead of the curve vs “head in the sand”(14:00) Panel reflections: Dropbox digital twins, Duolingo’s AI mandate, leadership buy-in spectrum(15:43) HR’s role with tech + legal: ethics, generational views, and people experience(16:27) “Who owns AI?”—budget, skills, and priorities across functions(19:36) Change management over pure tech: why HR is primed to lead adoption(21:01) Community accelerates AI: the prompt for pods (biggest blocker and opportunity)(23:31) Why the small-group format worked: quiet room, trust, generosity(25:08) Opportunities first: practical use cases; AI for manager coaching (pros/cons)(27:28) Blockers: ownership, resources, risk, and vendor noise(28:05) Quick poll: Should AI be a “coach”? Alignment with values and judgment(29:21) Using AI as a thinking partner—not a verdict(31:43) People team enablement: prompt patterns, values-trained GPTs, internal guardrails(32:20) Example from MPL: iterating a “super prompt” after guest feedback(33:50) One action to take now: targeted demos to learn real use cases(34:42) Don’t ban—enable: intentional adoption beats resistance(35:30) Practical rollout ideas: leadership exercises with starter prompts(37:07) Resource tip: OpenAI Academy prompts for HR (as a baseline to build on)(38:13) Mind-blower: executive digital twins; event improvements for Austin (Dec 11)(39:43) Feedback: design for introverts; keep a light warm-up(40:26) Preserve the magic: curated room + structured but flexible prompts(41:55) Rapid-fire predictions: the AI-powered workplace(42:29) Prediction #1: AI is both disruption and solution (reskilling at scale)(43:48) Prediction #2: A new kind of creativity—partnering with “semi-intelligent” tools(44:31) Prediction #3: Hiring shifts toward problem framing and critical thinking---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Joy Rothschild, Chief Human Resources Officer at Omni Hotels & Resorts, joined us on The Modern People Leader. ---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Request a demo of Workleap.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:21) Joy’s origin story: from hospitality ops to finding a home in HR(07:48) Early career breaks, sponsorship, and a philosophy of giving people a chance(09:59) Layoff, comeback call, and stepping into the top HR role(10:33) Boundaries after a career shock and sustaining a healthier pace(14:51) Omni in 2025: brand position, ownership model, and high-touch service strategy(18:39) “You have a culture”: balancing the guest–owner–associate “trilogy”(21:00) Crisis choices: 9/11 vs. COVID, service tradeoffs, and rebuilding momentum(23:13) Betting big during downturns: PGA Frisco and major openings through COVID(24:31) Tenure, recognition, and lessons from being let go after 18 years(26:26) Returning with boundaries and perspective(27:54) The “Gung Ho” boardroom moment and trusting your convictions(30:20) Dusting off the classics: reviving core Omni programs and cross-functional buy-in(32:28) Power of One 1.0: empowerment and 19 service points(34:32) Power of All detour and the case to simplify(35:34) Power of One 2.0: three plain-English principles that everyone remembers(36:29) Stories that stick: macaw video, the Herman Miller chair, and solving what you see(39:55) Wedding saved: saying yes and training teams to own outcomes(41:28) Why this sticks when other initiatives do not(43:42) “Training that sticks” playbook: ops partnership, writers, pilots, and scorecards(46:10) Logistics at scale: 8,500 front-line learners, 90 trainers, monthly reporting(47:58) Mantras with teeth: Elevate Service, Elevate Revenue, and tying bonuses to usage(49:48) Ownership, accountability, and why ops should teach service(51:17) Rapid Fire: advice for new HR, “culture warrior,” and borrowing Chewy’s playbook(54:06) Who’s next: Will Guidara and the craft of unreasonable hospitality(56:00) A quick story about Milk Bar cookies and influence---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Jessica Zwaan joins MPL Build to show HR leaders how to craft business cases that CEOs actually approve, using BLUF, the So What test, and clear links to revenue and savings. We walk through conservative projections, objection handling, and a live role-play on adopting a performance platform in today’s fiscally skeptical environment.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Talk to the team at Ethena.🔗 Request a demo of ChartHop.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (05:19) Jessica’s hierarchy: make money, save money, then time(08:45) Jessica’s shift from words to numbers and data(12:20) Tying HR work to revenue in practice(13:52) Choosing revenue vs savings and building the argument(15:42) “I cracked it” moment: McCann Worldgroup restructuring win(19:16) The “So What” Test explained and how to run it(21:57) Anticipating objections inside the deck(24:20) Role-play setup: $50k performance platform after HR Tech(25:32) Start with the problem: talent density and revenue leakage(26:08) Connecting performance signals to revenue and savings(28:31) From messy data to leading indicators leaders can use(30:23) Pitch format preferences(31:12) BLUF: Bottom line up front(32:39) Estimating impact and why to lean conservative(34:30) Standing behind numbers with board scrutiny(36:10) Is budget still tight and what fiscal skepticism means(37:43) Why rigor matters in an AI-saturated vendor landscape---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

Kim Minnick, Founder of Code Traveller HR, joined us on The Modern People Leader.We dug into why performance reviews often fail, how companies can decouple performance from compensation, creative ways to reward employees beyond pay, and the importance of transparency, choice, and designing programs that reflect company values.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Talk to the team at Ethena.🔗 Request a demo of Workleap.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (11:26) Why Most Companies Get Performance Management Wrong(15:59) The Noise & Confusion Around Rethinking Performance(19:44) Building Programs Unique to Your Company’s Mission & People(21:18) Decoupling Performance from Compensation(24:06) Why Performance Management Has Low Credibility with Employees(28:29) Shifting Rewards Beyond Pay & Limiting Overwork(32:57) Keeping Compensation-Driven Employees Engaged(34:04) Evolving Compensation Models & Budgeting Differently(40:26) Why Transparency in Compensation Matters(43:29) Defining Company Values to Drive Rewards & Recognition(45:30) Giving Employees Choice in How They’re Rewarded(50:30) The Risk of Turning Rewards into a “Feature Comparison”(52:34) Why Letting Employees Choose Could Be a Good Thing(55:33) HR Tech Limitations & Building Custom Solutions(57:57) The Economics of DIY vs. B2B SaaS Tools---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.

This episode of The Modern People Leader dives into the realities of leading through constant change, featuring guests Mita Mallick, Shelby Garrison, and Kelly Lohr. We discussed how HR leaders can navigate layoffs with transparency and humanity, the importance of supporting both exiting and remaining employees, and how to build resilience and adaptability into workplace culture.---- Sponsor Links:🔗 Get in contact with the Career Sandwich team.🔗 Request a demo of Workleap.🔗 Talk to the team at Ethena.MPL Links:🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.---- (07:13) Why Layoffs Feel Like a New Normal(09:25) Shelby on the Disconnect Between Job Reports and Employee Reality(14:27) Kelly on Building the Muscle to Adapt to Change(18:31) Mita on Transparency Before Layoffs Happen(21:27) The Shift in Employer Branding Conversations(22:37) Mistakes Companies Make During Layoffs That Damage Brand(25:04) Moments That Matter Most When Communicating Change(28:29) Shelby’s Two-Audience Approach to Layoff Planning(32:05) What Modern Support for Exiting Employees Looks Like(35:33) Balancing Empathy and Clarity in Layoff Conversations(38:58) Supporting Remaining Employees After Layoffs(45:17) Mita on Allowing Space to Acknowledge Those Who Left(47:11) Shelby on Bringing a Human-First Approach to Change(51:00) Q&A: The Problem with Silent Layoffs and How to Rebuild Trust---- 📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn---- Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.