Ep. 72- Empathy, Witnessing, and the Challenge of the Holocaust with Carolyn Dean

Send a textWhat is a concentration camp?  What are the distinguishing features of these spaces?  Where did they come from?In this episode, I talk with Andrea Pitzer about the long, global history of the concentration camp and its evolution over time.  We talk about what the definition is, what qualifies something as a concentration camp, and how different societies have learned from each other in their various iterations of "the camp."Andrea Pitzer is a journalist and author.Pitzer, Andrea. One Long Night: A Global History of Concentration Camps (2018)Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at [email protected] Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.

Send a textIt was the largest open shooting of the Holocaust (and perhaps in history).  Yet the murder in Babi Yar of 33,000+ Jews and other victims remained for much of its postwar life, unmarked and uncommemorated, at least officially.In this episode, I talked with VIctoria Khiterer about the fascinating history of Jews in Kyiv, before, during, and after the Holocaust.  It's an insightful look into challenge of Holocaust memory from the Soviet period to modern-day Ukraine.Victoria Khiterer is a Professor of History at Millersville University.Khiterer, Victoria. Bitter War of Memory: The Babyn Yar Massacre, Aftermath, and Commemoration (2025) Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at [email protected] Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.

Send a textHow do we approach witnessing the Holocaust? Are there appropriate or inappropriate ways to do this? Does witnessing make us more empathetic or more indifferent?  These are just some of the questions we addressed in this episode with Carolyn Dean.We also talked about the role of images in teaching about the Holocaust as well as the role of empathy in bystander behavior.Carolyn Dean is the Charles J. Stille Professor of History and French at Yale University. Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at [email protected] Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.

Send a textAn important part of researching the Holocaust is recovering the stories of the diverse group of victims of the Nazi genocidal project.  For a very long time, queer victims have been marginalized or overlooked in this process.In this episode, I talked with Anna Hájková about her work in queering the Holocaust, that is in writing the experience of these people into the history.  We talked about the queer Jewish experience but also about the value of this kind of work for teaching us about the doing of history.Anna Hájková is an associate professor of history at the University of Warwick. Hájková, Anna. People without History are Dust- Queer Desire in the Holocaust (2025)Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at [email protected] Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.

Send a textHow did women experience the Holocaust differently from men?  What do we learn from considering a gender perspective when we look at the past?  How did gender play a role in survival and oppression? For a long time, women's experiences (and a gendered approach to understanding them was absent from our study of the Holocaust.  In this episode, we have a far-ranging conversation looking at many of the questions listed above.Elissa Bemporad is the Ungar Chair in East European Jewish History and the Holocaust and is Professor of History at Queens College and the CUNY Graduate Center.Bemporad, Elissa and Joyce W. Warren, eds. Women and Genocide: Survivors, Victims, Perpetrators (2018) Bemporad, Elissa. Legacy of Blood: Jews, Pogroms, and Ritual Murder in the Lands of the Soviets (2020)Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at [email protected] Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.

Send a textHow could one be a man of God in Nazi Germany?  And, especially, how can one minister to the Wehrmacht, itself an instrument of the Nazi state while professing to adhere to Christian morality?  These are the questions that Doris Bergen deals with in her book on German military chaplains.In this episode, we talk about the Nazi relationship with churches in Germany as well as about the ways in which German military chaplains became complicit in the crimes of the Third Reich. Doris Bergen is Chancellor Rose and Ray Wolfe Chair in Holocaust Studies at the University of Toronto.Bergen, Doris. Between God and Hitler: Military Chaplains in Nazi Germany (2025)Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at [email protected] Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.

Send a textThe mass shooting of Jews at Babi Yar in Kiev in September 1941 was the largest open-air shooting of Jews during the Holocaust.  In some ways, it came to stand for the Einsatzgruppen killings taking place across the occupied Soviet Union.  But as it was not a camp, it left no real physical traces behind.  And this was in many ways to the liking of the Soviet government.In this episode, I talked with Shay Pilnik about the place of Babi Yar in Soviet postwar Holocaust memory.  How did the state allow/repress commemoration of the massacre?  And, in particular, how did Soviet writers, both Jewish and non-Jewish treat the Babi Yar massacre?  It's a really enlightening conversation about the Holocaust, memory, and the ways in which the authoritarian state controls commemoration.Shay Pilnik is Director of the Emil A. and Jenny Fish Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies at Yeshiva University.Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at [email protected] Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.

Send a textThe Nuremberg Trials were the first attempt at coming to terms with Nazi criminality.  While there was a legal component to this, there was also a psychological element.  What made Nazi minds tick? In this episode, I talk with Jack El-Hai about his work on psychiatrist Douglas Kelley who worked with the Nazi defendants at Nuremberg.  This book also forms the basis for the new film Nuremberg. Jack El-Hai is an author with a particular interest in medical history. El-Hai, Jack. The Nazi and the Psychiatrist: Hermann Goring, Dr. Douglas M. Kelley, and a Fatal Meeting of Minds at the End of WWII (2013)Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at [email protected] Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.

Send a textWe often make the mistake of thinking that history is all about what happened and why.  However, its also very much about how people felt about what was happening to them.In this episode, I talked with Amy Shapiro SImon about her work on the ways in which Jews described their oppressors in Yiddish diaries.  She researched diary writers in the Warsaw, Łodz, and Vilnius ghettos.Amy Shapiro Simon is the William and Audrey Farber Family Chair in Holocaust Studies and European Jewish History at Michigan State University. Simon, Amy Shapiro.  Emotions in Yiddish Ghetto Diaries Encountering Persecutors and Questioning Humanity (2024)Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at [email protected] Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.

Send a textDespite some popular perception, Holocaust perpetrators are rarely cartoonish pure evil characters.  In fact, many of them understood their guilt and actively sought to weave false narratives to exonerate themselves or avoid prosecution. The story of Franz Lucas is one such narrative.  In this episode, I talk with Andrew Wisely about Lucas, an SS doctor at multiple concentration camps.  We discuss his complicity in the Holocaust as well as his attempts to avoid prosecution in post-war German society.65Andrew Wisely is Professor of German at Baylor University.Wisely, Andrew.  The Trial of a Nazi Doctor: Franz Lucas as Defendant, Opportunist, and Deceiver (2024)Follow on Twitter @holocaustpod.Email the podcast at [email protected] Holocaust History Podcast homepage is hereYou can find a complete reading list with books by our guests and also their suggestions here.