Oren Cass on the Case for Tariffs

Mónica Guzmán is author of I Never Thought of it That Way: How to Have Fearlessly Curious Conversations in Dangerously Divided Times; founder and CEO of Reclaim Curiosity; Senior Fellow for Public Practice at Braver Angels; and host of A Braver Way podcast. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Mónica Guzmán discuss how to build trust across political divides and the joy of heated debates. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I’m really proud of the community that has grown up around The Good Fight, Persuasion and my own Substack. That’s why I was excited to welcome paying subscribers to join me for a live session—so I could answer your questions personally. We had a great discussion: About the idea of a foreign policy for the middle class. About the state of free speech in Europe. About how to tell when the rule of law has broken down in the United States. About the prospects for a third party. And about so much more. Our next Q&A, reserved for paying subscribers, will be on Monday, March 31 at 6pm Eastern. Do join us! –Yascha Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Editor’s Note: This podcast was produced as part of Persuasion’s partnership with the Civil Discourse @ MIT program, at which Spencer Case spoke late last year on the topic “Does Citizenship Require Patriotism?” To learn more about Civil Discourse @ MIT, visit the program’s website here, and to see prior episodes in the series click here. Spencer Case hosts Micro-Digressions: A Philosophy Podcast. He's the author of many academic philosophy articles and coauthor of Is Morality Real? A Debate. He is currently an assistant teaching professor in the Bowling Green State University philosophy department.  In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Spencer Case explore the difference between patriotism and nationalism, what extremists get wrong, and how to think about self-identification in the debate about trans rights. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jake Sullivan served as national security advisor under President Biden. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Jake Sullivan discuss the record of President Biden’s administration, the future of Ukraine, and how it feels to be making decisions under pressure in the Situation Room. Note: This episode was recorded on February 12, 2025. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wolfgang Münchau is the Director of Eurointelligence and a journalist focusing on the European Union and European economy. His most recent book is Kaput: The End of the German Miracle. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Wolfgang Münchau discuss why the German car industry–and broader economy–is in decline, and explore the potential political future of Germany as the country heads to the polls. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. To get ad-free access to all of The Good Fight, including full weekly conversations and frequent bonus episodes, please subscribe to my Substack [insert link: www.yaschamounk.substack.com]. This will also allow you to get Yascha’s weekly column about current events and big ideas directly into your inbox. If you are already a subscriber but have not yet set up this podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marc Dunkelman on Why Nothing Works Marc Dunkelman is a fellow at Brown University’s Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs. His most recent book is Why Nothing Works. In this conversation, Yascha Mounk and Marc Dunkelman explore the challenges facing big projects in the U.S., the origins of progressivism, and how Donald Trump fits into this story. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. To get ad-free access to all of The Good Fight, including full weekly conversations and frequent bonus episodes, please subscribe to my Substack [insert link: www.yaschamounk.substack.com]. This will also allow you to get Yascha’s weekly column about current events and big ideas directly into your inbox. If you are already a subscriber but have not yet set up this podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Arlie Hochschild is an author and professor emerita of sociology at the University of California, Berkeley. Her books include Stolen Pride: Loss, Shame, and the Rise of the Right and Strangers in Their Own Land: Anger and Mourning on the American Right. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Arlie Hochschild discuss the fear of empathy among the American left, the impact of the loss of pride among white working class communities, and how to understand the deep story of Latinos who voted for Trump in 2024. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Oren Cass discuss the reasoning behind Trump’s economic policy. Oren Cass is the founder and executive director of American Compass and author of The Once and Future Worker: A Vision for the Renewal of Work in America. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Oren Cass discuss the decline of manufacturing in the U.S., whether there is any coherence to Trump's economic policy, and if the Democrats or Republicans are the more natural home for working class voters.  This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Eric Kaufmann also discuss "asymmetrical multiculturalism" and the global fertility crisis. Eric Kaufmann is a professor of Politics at the University of Buckingham, where he directs the Centre for Heterodox Social Science. Kaufmann is the author of The Third Awokening (entitled Taboo in the UK), Whiteshift: Populism, Immigration and the Future of White Majorities, and Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth? In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Eric Kaufmann discuss why much of mainstream liberalism has become unmoored from its classical principles; how we can push back against identitarianism and move towards a non-zero-sum framework for interethnic relations; and whether (and how) humanity might reverse the global decline in fertility. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Leonora Barclay Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Yascha Mounk and Francis Fukuyama discuss the first few days of the Trump administration–and what it means for domestic and foreign policy. Francis Fukuyama is a political scientist, author, and the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies at Stanford University. Fukuyama’s notable works include The End of History and the Last Man and The Origins of Political Order. His latest book is Liberalism and Its Discontents. You can find his blog, Frankly Fukuyama, at Persuasion. In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Francis Fukuyama discuss what the flurry of executive orders really means; how the civil service needs to change; Trump’s plans for Greenland; and what China will do next. This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: [email protected]  Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by Jack Shields, and Brendan Ruberry Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk & @joinpersuasion Youtube: Yascha Mounk LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices