[Encore Episode] Healing from Relationship Betrayal with Michelle Mays

Understanding the psychology of a narcissist is the topic of conversation this week, with my guest Chelsey Brooke Cole. Chelsey is a licensed psychotherapist, expert in narcissistic abuse recovery, and bestselling author of If Only I'd Known: How to Outsmart Narcissists, Set Guilt-Free Boundaries, and Create Unshakable Self-Worth. She specializes in helping people understand the psychology of narcissists so they can trust themselves again after narcissistic abuse.  Here's the thing about narcissists that can be so disorienting at first: they are fundamentally different from you. This episode gets into the psychology behind it all. Why narcissists operate the way they do, what the different types actually look like, how they show up in relationships, and what the path back to yourself really involves. Because understanding what you were actually dealing with is usually where the healing starts.  What you'll hear about in this episode: Why narcissists are not like you: the personality trait most survivors share, and why it works against them. (2:16) The trauma myth: does trauma cause narcissism? Chelsey shares her insights. (6:33) Six types of narcissists: what each one looks like, and why the most dangerous ones often look the most harmless. (8:44) How narcissists approach communication: what they're actually doing in conversations, and why it's designed to keep you stuck.(26:42) The healing journey: the micro-shifts that actually move the needle, and where to start when you don't even know yourself anymore. (33:30) Learn more about Chelsey Brooke Cole: Chelsey Brooke Cole is a licensed psychotherapist, Certified Partner Trauma Therapist, and best-selling author of If Only I'd Known! How to Outsmart Narcissists, Set Guilt-Free Boundaries, and Create Unshakeable Self-Worth. She specializes in narcissistic abuse and complex trauma, with her work routinely featured in outlets like USA Today, HuffPost, and Psychology Today. Chelsey provides support to thousands of narcissistic abuse survivors each day through her speaking, writing, podcast, and comprehensive healing programs. She is the host of Restoring Resilience, a podcast dedicated to helping survivors heal and reclaim their lives, and the creator of Rewired for Resilience: Reclaiming Yourself After Narcissistic Abuse.  Resources & Links: Registration is now open for the Unbreakable Retreat!Kate Anthony's Complete Parenting Plan Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate The Divorce Survival Guide Resource BundlePhoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment CollectiveKate on InstagramKate on FacebookKate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube! Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce  Chelsey's websiteGet a free e-book copy of Chelsey's book: If Only I'd Known! How to Outsmart Narcissists, Set Guilt-Free Boundaries, and Create Unshakeable Self-WorthChelsey's Masterclass: The Narcissist's Playbook Chelsey on Instagram =================== DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM. ===================

You may have heard it so many times. "Make a safety plan." And every single time, the women I talk to say the same thing: okay, but what does that actually mean? In this solo episode, I'm walking you through what a safety plan actually is, why it matters, how to contact a domestic violence agency or shelter before you're in crisis, and what kinds of help may be available even if you never spend a night in a shelter. We're talking about children, custody fears, documentation, technology safety, legal questions, and why leaving safely often requires more than courage. It requires information, support, and a plan. When you're sitting in your house trying to think through all of this, the part of your brain that is figuring things out or making decisions isn't really working. You're in trauma. And yet you're supposed to make a plan. With what money? Which car? What documents? With my children? Without my children? What if the shelter's full? What if he tracks my phone? What if I leave and he says I kidnapped the kids? What if I stay and something happens?  By the end of this episode, I want you to understand what goes into a safety plan, who can help you make one, how to think about shelters and domestic violence agencies, and what questions to ask before you take any action, especially if you have children.  A safety plan is not about living in fear. It's about refusing to let fear be the only thing in the room. Fear says, "I can't." A plan says, "Here's what I need to know." Maybe not today, but one private step is enough.  What you'll hear about in this episode: What shelter actually means and how to use it before you're in crisis Technology safety: phones, tracking, shared accounts, and what not to do first How to assess your risk and what goes into a safety plan based on that risk Identifying your safe people and what "safe" actually means Documents to gather: ID, financial records, car title and registration, and more How to document incidents in patterns, not just isolated events Building cash quietly: gift cards, separate accounts, and why money must be part of the plan The physical exit: routes, keys, cars, kids, pets, and where you're actually going Kids, custody fears, and why his threats are not legal advice How to talk to an advocate or attorney about risk, documentation, and timing Your go bag: what's in it, where it lives, and what to do if you can't get to it Resources & Links: Creating a Safety PlanSafety Planning Words, Phrases, & Questions Registration is now open for the Unbreakable Retreat! Kate Anthony's Complete Parenting Plan Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate The Divorce Survival Guide Resource BundlePhoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment CollectiveKate on InstagramKate on FacebookKate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube! Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce  National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) Text START to 88788 thehotline.org (has a quick-close button) 211 (where available) for domestic violence resources, legal aid, emergency housing, food assistance, and victim services Aimee Says - an AI platform trained and designed specifically to support victims of domestic abuse Find state specific resources at: womenslaw.org =================== DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM. =================== Episode link: https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-371-solo-episode-before-you-leave-how-to-create-a-safety-plan/

Dr. Christine Cocchiola is back with a brand-new children's book called Every Moment of Every Day. It's a book for kids who are going back and forth between homes when one of those homes isn't safe. It gives children language for what they're feeling, and it gives protective parents a roadmap for how to support them when they come home. This book does something I haven't seen in any other children's book about divorce: it integrates somatic healing methods to help kids move out of survival mode and back into connection. It also gives children something abusers never do: choice and agency. We also talk about how to co-regulate when your child comes home dysregulated, which is so hard to do, but so incredibly important. And I ask Dr. C for her thoughts on the way narcissists and coercive controllers are often conflated. She explains why they are not the same. This is the kind of conversation that reminds me why we can't stop being fierce advocates for the people we work with every day. As Dr. C says, when kids finally connect the dots and the attachment gets rebuilt, it's the most beautiful thing to watch. And it starts with you. What you'll hear about in this episode: Why Dr. C wrote a children's book specifically for kids in shared custody situations with an abusive parent, and what she was trying to give them (4:59) How the book helps kids identify what they're feeling in their body, not just their emotions (6:43) What makes this book different from other divorce books, which tend to normalize and soften when kids actually need to be seen (9:53) How the book integrates somatic healing methods, and what that looks like in practice (10:42) Why narcissists and coercive controllers are not the same, and why that distinction matters enormously for how you navigate these systems (21:48) What Dr. C has learned from her own experience of parental alienation, and the beautiful reunification stories she's seeing now (34:12) Why telling your kids "Dad loves you and is doing the best he can" may actually be gaslighting them (37:33) Learn more about Dr. Christine Cocchiola: Christine M. Cocchiola, DSW, LCSW, is a recognized expert on coercive control and its impact on adult and child victims. As a college professor of social work, she earned her Doctorate in Clinical Social Work from New York University, where she was mentored by Dr. Evan Stark, a leading authority on coercive control. Dr. Cocchiola presents internationally on the dynamics of coercive control, educating professionals, advocates, and protective parents about children's lived experiences and the most effective intervention strategies for victims of abuse. A social justice advocate since age 19, she developed The Protective Parenting Program, an evidence-based, attachment-focused therapeutic model designed for parents whose children have been harmed by abusive partners. As both a survivor and protective parent, Dr. Cocchiola brings personal insight to her professional work. She is the author of the children's book Every Moment of Every Day and co-author of FRAMED: Women in the Family Court Underworld. Her TEDx talk with over 1.4 M views, "It is ALL Coercive Control," is available on YouTube.  Resources & Links: Registration is now open for the Unbreakable Retreat!Kate Anthony's Complete Parenting Plan Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate The Divorce Survival Guide Resource BundlePhoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment CollectiveKate on InstagramKate on FacebookKate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube! Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce  Dr. Cocchiola's website Dr. C on Instagram Dr. C on Facebook =================== DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM. =================== Episode link: https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-370-the-book-every-protective-parent-needs-helping-children-heal-from-coercive-control-with-dr-christine-cocchiola/

I'm back with a new solo episode this week, and I'm talking about something that is incredibly common, deeply complicated, and almost never talked about honestly: Living together while separated. Same house. Same kitchen. Same hallways. Maybe even the same bedroom — though if you can create different sleeping arrangements, please do. For most people, deciding the relationship is over does not mean you can immediately leave the house. Housing, finances, kids, legal strategy, logistics, or a spouse who refuses to go can all make physical separation impossible, at least for a while. This is the practical reality for so many people. And when you're in it, you need more than emotional endurance. You need structure. You need boundaries. You need a way to move through the day without letting the entire situation swallow you whole. In this episode, I'll walk you through how to survive this period with more clarity and intention. We'll talk about communication, emotional containment, household logistics, safety considerations, and how to begin treating this time as an actual transition — with movement, strategy, and support. And if you are leaving an unsafe marriage, I'll also talk through some important safety planning considerations, because living together while separating can require a very different level of strategy. What you'll hear about in this episode: Where people often get stuck when they keep acting like nothing has changed, even though everything has Why living together while separated is not appropriate in every situation, and what to consider if safety is a concern How to help your children begin adjusting to the new rhythm of divorced co-parenting before anyone moves out How to divide roles and responsibilities so the invisible infrastructure of the marriage becomes visible How to use this time strategically, including meeting with your attorney, documenting, understanding your finances, and opening your own accounts Why you need to talk to your kids about what's happening, and what you can actually say Resources & Links: Registration is now open for the Unbreakable Retreat!Kate Anthony's Complete Parenting Plan Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate The Divorce Survival Guide Resource BundlePhoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment CollectiveKate on InstagramKate on FacebookKate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube! Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce  =================== DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM. =================== Episode link: https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-369-solo-episode-living-together-while-separated-how-to-transition-with-intention/

If you own a business, or your spouse does, or you built one together, divorce just got more complicated. You may be wondering, how will divorce impact the business? I'm so glad I have returning guest Jennifer Lee to answer this and other important questions.  In this episode, we get into what happens to the business you built together, what happens when there's been financial infidelity and the numbers don't add up or what to do when your spouse suddenly claims the business is tanking right as divorce hits the table.  Whether you're co-owners trying to figure out what comes next, or you're staring down a spouse who suddenly can't account for where the money went, this conversation will help you understand what you have, what you're owed, and how to make sure you don't walk away with less than you deserve.  What you'll hear about in this episode: Running the business together and getting divorced: whether you can actually keep it going, and what you need to get in writing when you do (2:36) When there's financial infidelity, the divorce is not amicable and what it takes to get to the real value of a business that's caught in the middle (6:04) Some considerations for business asset division during divorce (13:10) What to do when divorce is on the table and all of a sudden "the business isn't worth anything!" (17:23) How to handle avoidance and secrecy around financial disclosures (23:06) How Jennifer works with clients in the middle of a divorce, from financial triage to making sure you are walking away with what you are owed (25:12) Learn more about Jennifer Lee: Originally from Maryland, Jennifer brought her over 27 years (44 years if you count going into the office with her father as a child) of expertise in the financial services industry to Florida. Jennifer has found that a relationship with an advisor is most critical at the intersections in life where emotions collide with financial events. She enjoys facilitating her clients through challenges as they experience life's upsets such as divorce, the loss of a spouse, or business to retirement transition. Whether you are experiencing divorce, a business client expanding or selling your operation, or a couple wanting to make sure they have provided for their family, Modern-Wealth may be a good fit. Jennifer provides a fresh perspective to the financial planning process by digging deep to understand what drives her clients. At Modern-Wealth, they build long-lasting relationships. As part of their process, they encourage clients to communicate their values to the most important people in their lives by writing a family love letter. This led her to write "Squeeze the Juice: Live With Purpose-Then Leave a Legacy.  Resources & Links: Kate Anthony's Complete Parenting Plan Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate The Divorce Survival Guide Resource BundlePhoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment CollectiveKate on InstagramKate on FacebookKate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube! Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce  Connect with Jennifer Lee: Jennifer's website Jennifer on Facebook Jennifer on Instagram Jennifer on LinkedIn =================== DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM. =================== Episode link: https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-368-divorce-business-valuation-and-financial-infidelity-with-jennifer-lee/

I'm re-airing one of the most powerful conversations I've ever had on this podcast. This is my conversation with Michelle Mays, author of The Betrayal Bind, and it is one of the most in-depth explorations I've done of betrayal, attachment, and the very real, very complex reasons it can feel so impossible to leave or to stay and repair when trust has been broken at this level. "Divorce is common, and cheating is common. Because they are common, it doesn't mean they're not tremendously significant and have enormous ramifications for our mental and physical health," says Michelle. During our conversation, we discuss the importance of understanding what happened, explore betrayal through the lens of attachment systems, and unravel what happens to us when we experience this enormous injury. What you'll hear about in this episode: A new attachment-based model for understanding the impacts of cheating in relationships (7:52) Some of the binds in relationships that we can get stuck in including the shame bind and relational binds (12:55) Healing and repairing relationships: what it means to stay, and what it takes to repair the fractures betrayal has caused (23:25) What gets in the way of leaving when we want or know we need to leave (35:39) The difference between rebuilding emotional connection and rebuilding sexual connection (48:30) Learn more about Michelle Mays: Michelle Mays is a Licensed Professional Counselor and expert in treating sexual betrayal and trauma. She's also the author of the new book The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Has Hurt You the Worst. Michelle has created The Braving Hope™ Treatment Model to address the devastating dilemma that betrayed partners face when their significant other is unsafe to connect to, yet connection is the key to healing. Michelle is a Licensed Professional Counselor and Supervisor in Virginia and Washington DC, and a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist and Supervisor. She was trained by Pia Mellody in the Post Induction Therapy model for treating developmental trauma and is currently completing her PhD in Clinical Sexology and certification in Emotionally Focused Therapy for couples. Resources & Links: Kate Anthony's Complete Parenting Plan Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate The Divorce Survival Guide Resource BundlePhoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment CollectiveKate on InstagramKate on FacebookKate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube! Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce  Connect with Michelle Mays: Michelle's website Michelle on Facebook Michelle on Instagram Michelle on YouTube Books: Michelle's book, The Betrayal BindFacing Codependence, Pia Mellody =================== DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM. =================== Episode link: https://kateanthony.com/podcast/encore-episode-healing-from-relationship-betrayal-with-michelle-mays

So much of what women contend with during divorce is really intense grief. Sometimes they don't name it that or even realize that's what's happening, but that is what's happening. Barri Leiner Grant, founder and Chief Grief Officer™ of The Memory Circle, is back with me to keep the conversation going about grieving before, during, and after divorce. For those new to Barri, her community and creative space is created for those learning to live with loss. She's a highly respected grief specialist, writer, coach, and educator, and she leads transformative gatherings, retreats, and workshops that explore grief tending tools, rituals, and practices that foster connection, healing, and hope. In this conversation, Barri and I get into why we're still such a grief-denying society when it comes to non-death loss, and we spend a good chunk of time on rituals. Because here's the thing: there is no funeral for a divorce. No burial, nothing formal. So we talk about how women can make their own. Like burying a copy of your decree (just not the only one, you'll need it). Lighting a candle on the anniversary. Writing yourself a letter. Painting the inside of your front door hot pink. Getting the tattoo. Whatever helps you name the loss, move the energy, and reclaim the space. What you'll hear about in this episode: Why women become their own judge and jury about naming non-death loss (1:54) Why grieving a divorce feels confusing even if you're the one who asked for it, and why the future you imagined is still a real loss (3:26) What Barri's own divorce (layered on top of losing her mom) taught her about asking for support (5:06) Why writing is one of the most accessible grief tending tools (20:02) Grief tending, self-compassion, and why it's not a just bath with salts (26:26) Why making your own ritual matters when the culture doesn't give you one (33:20) Learn more about Barri Leiner Grant: Barri Leiner Grant is a highly respected grief specialist, author and founder of The Memory Circle, a creative and healing space for remembrance and ritual. Barri brings a distinct aesthetic sensibility to the field of grief work—bridging beauty and healing in ways that feel modern, personal, and deeply human. She is the creator of Permission Granted, a widely read Substack newsletter that invites readers to navigate loss with honesty, tenderness, and earned wisdom. Barri is recognized for her unique approach to grief support, which combines writing storytelling, ritual and community to help people mark loss with intention and carry memories forward with care. Sought after as a speaker, collaborator, and guide, Barri is redefining how we talk about grief. Her work has been featured in The Washington Post, Psychology Today, Maria Shriver's Sunday paper and award winning podcasts. Resources & Links: Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate The Divorce Survival Guide Resource BundlePhoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment CollectiveKate on InstagramKate on FacebookKate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube! Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce  Connect with Barri Leiner-Grant The Memory Circle Barri on Instagram =================== DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM. =================== Episode link: https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-367-rituals-for-divorce-grief-with-barri-leiner-grant/

This weekend, I'm getting married. And before you're like, wait, what podcast am I listening to? stay with me. Because if you've been here a while, you know this show isn't just about leaving. It's about what comes after. It's about what's possible. So today I'm talking about what happens when you don't settle, what healthy love actually feels like, and how to know when you've found it. I wasn't sure if I wanted to record this one. So many of you are in the thick of heartbreak, confusion, fear, grief, and I never want to hold something up that feels inaccessible. But then I started telling my clients I'd be gone for a bit, and something really beautiful happened. One burst into tears. Not just for me, but with this sense of oh my god, this is possible. This exists. This might be real for me someday too. So here it is. Not as a prize at the end of divorce. Not as a reward for leaving. But, as a reflection of the work. What you'll hear about in this episode: The question almost every client asks me: how would I know? What it feels like to stop bracing for impact The baseline you're allowed to want, and why it isn't "too much" Why this isn't about rushing to find your person The relationship that has to come first is the one with yourself, no matter what Resources & Links: Save the Date: Unbreakable Retreat, September 10th through 13th in Sedona, Arizona Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate The Divorce Survival Guide Resource BundlePhoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment CollectiveKate on InstagramKate on FacebookKate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube! Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce  =================== DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM. =================== Episode link: https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-366-a-reflection-of-the-work-whats-possible-on-the-other-side-of-divorce/

I am so glad to bring Dr. Emma Katz back to the show. She is a senior lecturer in criminology at Edgehill University and one of the world's leading experts on coercive control. She is the author of Coercive Control in Children's and Mothers' Lives and writes the Substack Decoding Coercive Control, where she makes this research clear to process and digest for anyone navigating it in real life. Today we are focused on children and their lived experience of coercive control, and what actually supports them when one parent is trying to protect them inside constrained systems. In this conversation we explore what children are actually experiencing as co-victims and co-survivors of coercive control, both inside the home and after separation, when the tactics don't stop, they just shift. We get into what protective mothers can actually do to support their kids, why your own survival is already a road map, and how to talk to your children about what is happening in a way that helps them make sense of it without putting them in more danger. We also go deep on family court and why court-ordered systemic therapy in a coercive control situation is, in Emma's words, a match made in hell. What you'll hear about in this episode: How coercive control intensifies for children after separation, and what they are experiencing when they move between homes (2:34) How to talk to your children about abuse in a way that is ongoing, depersonalized, and actually safe (27:06) Family court and systemic therapy: how to navigate it strategically when you have no choice (35:36) The changes Emma is seeing in family court in the UK, why the US is moving in the opposite direction, and what that means for protective mothers (44:20) Final advice for protective mothers on building the anti-coercive control environment in your own home, and why even when you cannot fix what is happening, making your child feel heard is already so much (50:42) ✨ If you'd like to watch the video version of this episode, you can find it here. Learn more about Dr. Emma Katz Dr Emma Katz is Associate Professor at Durham University. She is an award-winning expert in domestic abuse and coercive control, whose work has influenced policy and professional practice in the UK and globally. Dr Katz's book, Coercive Control in Children's and Mothers' Lives (published in 2022 by Oxford University Press) is described by Professor Evan Stark as a 'pioneering work that will change how we understand and respond to children's experience of domestic abuse'. Follow Dr Katz on Substack to receive her popular blog Decoding Coercive Control with Dr Emma Katz. Resources & Links:Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate The Divorce Survival Guide Resource BundlePhoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment CollectiveKate on InstagramKate on FacebookKate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube! Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce  Connect with Dr. Katz: Dr. Katz's Substack: Decoding Coercive Control  Dr. Katz on Instagram Dr. Katz on LinkedIn Dr. Katz on Facebook Dr. Katz on YouTube Books Mentioned: Floss and the BossLuna Little LegsTalking to My Mum: A Picture Workbook Workers, Mothers, Children Affected by Domestic Abuse Talking About Domestic Abuse: A Photo Activity Workbook to Develop Communication Between Mothers and Young People =================== DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM. =================== Episode link: https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-365-children-as-co-victims-of-coercive-control-with-dr-emma-katz/

Something I hear increasingly among my client population is the experience of burnout after divorce. And this is the thing that very few people prepare you for. You've made it through the hardest decision of your life. You survived the chaos of the initial separation. You got through the legal process. And then you get to the other side, expecting to feel magically better, clear, and free. Instead, you feel exhausted. So in this week's solo episode, I am going to shine a light on what is actually happening in your body and your nervous system after divorce. Why it's so much more than just being tired, what burnout after divorce actually looks like and why it's so disorienting, and what regulated rebuilding actually looks like so you don't end up right back in depletion. What you'll hear about in this episode: Why burnout after divorce is about way more than just being tired How burnout actually shows up and why it catches so many women completely off guard What regulated rebuilding really looks like after years of survival mode How tiny micro-steps of noticing, honoring, and following through rebuild self-trust over time Why powering through burnout is the one thing that will set you back the most Resources & Links: Focused Strategy Sessions with Kate The Divorce Survival Guide Resource BundlePhoenix Rising: A Divorce Empowerment CollectiveKate on InstagramKate on FacebookKate's Substack Newsletter: Divorce Coaching Dispatch The Divorce Survival Guide Podcast Episodes are also available YouTube! Seven Step Mindset Reset for Divorce Co-dependents Anonymous Al-Anon =================== DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY, COACH, OR THERAPIST IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM. =================== Episode link: https://kateanthony.com/podcast/episode-364-burnout-after-divorce-what-nobody-prepares-you-for