105 | The Performance Paradox: Redefining Success in Climbing and Life w/ AMGA Guide Kevin Heinrich

In his earlier years, Kevin dedicated his life to the craft of climbing. He lived in a van, chased adventure across the globe, and devoted every ounce of his energy to the pursuit of performance. During that chapter, he climbed up to 5.13b, established several major first ascents, and ticked over fifteen hundred routes. Climbing wasn’t just something Kevin did — it was who he was. His identity was built around his achievements, his grades, and his ever-growing tick list… until one day, everything changed. After successfully rope-soloing Freerider on El Cap, a dream that would represent the pinnacle of accomplishment for many, Kevin found himself not elated — but empty. Confused. Frustrated. Wondering what it all meant. That moment became a turning point — a quiet reckoning that forced him to question why he climbed in the first place. It was from that reflection that a new path emerged. Today, Kevin is an AMGA-Certified Rock Guide and co-owner of Vertical Pursuits, a guiding service based out of Lake Tahoe. His focus has shifted from personal performance to mentorship — helping everyday climbers build competence, confidence, and a deeper connection with the craft.In our conversation, we use Kevin’s climbing stories as a framework to explore some of climbing’s bigger questions. We start with his rope-solo ascent of Freerider — and how that experience reshaped his identity. Then, we dig into a story from his time climbing with Brad Gobright, using it to dissect the psychology of risk management. From there, we travel back into Kevin’s dirtbag years  and get to hear several increidble stories.  A bear encounter in the Wind River Range. A remote big-wall first ascent in the wilds of British Columbia. And his time on the iconic Andean peak Alpamayo. We wrap up by exploring Kevin’s guiding philosophy — how he sees mentorship as one of the most underutilized tools in modern climbing, and how professional instruction can change the way we learn, grow, and stay alive in the mountains.This conversation is full of honesty, vulnerability, and hard-won wisdom. I walked away from it reflecting on my own relationship with climbing, and I think you might too.Watch The Climbing Majority on Youtube---Thanks to our sponsors!LIVSN DesignsCheckout their Ecotrek Overalls HEREUse Code "TCM15" At Checkout for 15% OFF Your OrderHot Chillys Performance Base LayersCheckout their Clima-Tek Base Layer Systems HEREUse Code "TCM15" At Checkout for 15% OFF Your Order---Get Access to Exclusive Episodes, Unlock Ad-Free Podcast, & MORE!---ResourcesBook Kevin's Guide ServicesKevin's Personal WebsiteKevin's IGKevin's Mountain Project Profile---

Justin Salas has a significant visual impairment. He lost his sight due to an undiagnosed optic neuropathy when he was 14. Imagine, you're a teenager fresh into highschool…you have ambitions to join the military, you already own a small business mowing lawns called J&J Lawn Care…everything seems within reach…and then in what seems like an instant…you lose your sight. While Justin is one of the most humble, capable humans I know…the impact this kind of loss has on the human mind cannot go understated.It’s been over 16 years since Justin has lost his sight. During that time he has become the world's strongest outdoor paraclimbing boulderer, the first ever to climb V11. He is a sponsored athlete, he is building a business in the world of accessibility, and has found a life partner. And yet he still wrestles, almost daily, with the shadow of “what could have been.” His life split the day he lost his sight, and he can’t help but wonder about the path not taken—the one with sight.In our conversation, we dig into how Justin thinks about his identity—as a climber and as a human. We talk about the maze of balancing independence with accepting help, and what Justin’s climbing experience actually feels like: how he performs at a high level, the crucial role of sight guides, and why visualization matters—not just for him, but for all of us.We also get into choosing direction in life and how climbing can complicate our decision-making. We talk about the major pivot in Justin’s life after learning that he won’t be able to compete in the upcoming 2028 Olympics, what it’s like to be a modern day climbing athlete, and finally we close off the conversation exploring the concept of mastery.Now, Justin and I love to go philosophical…and while you will see some of that in this episode, we also recorded an extra 45 minutes after this episode. We explore the concepts of stillness, fear, control, purpose, ambition, communication, and learning. If you like conversations where climbing is the lens but the subject is really how to live, this conversation is for you.Watch The Climbing Majority on Youtube---Thanks to our sponsors!LIVSN DesignsCheckout their Ecotrek Overalls HEREUse Code "TCM15" At Checkout for 15% OFF Your OrderHot Chillys Performance Base LayersCheckout their Clima-Tek Base Layer Systems HEREUse Code "TCM15" At Checkout for 15% OFF Your Order---Get Access to Exclusive Episodes, Unlock Ad-Free Podcast, & MORE!---ResourcesJustin's IG---

Red Rock Canyon is a National Conservation Area about 17 miles from the Las Vegas Strip. Its striking red and cream-colored sandstone walls hold thousands of climbs — from 20-foot sport routes to adventurous 20-pitch trad lines. Today, I’m sitting down with long-time local Andrew Fulton. Andrew has been climbing in Red Rocks since January of 1993 — back before the city even had climbing gyms, when pioneers like George and Joanne Urioste were putting up countless first ascents in the canyon. Over the last 30 years, he’s witnessed massive changes in the city, the climbing culture, and Red Rock Canyon itself. As a newer Las Vegas local myself, I was stoked to connect with Andrew — not just to hear the history of a world-class climbing area, but to get a feel for what it was like to be a climber “back in the day.”In our conversation, we dig into the complicated history of The Original Route on Rainbow Wall, Andrew’s unique perspective on risk and how it shaped both his climbing and his guiding career. We dive into several wild stories from his past — including rockfall, a massive fire, swarms of bees, and a 100+ foot aid fall that nearly cost him his life. We close things out by going deep into the meaning of climbing, and ultimately uncover what we see as three pillars of climbing: spirituality, adventure, and performance.Quick disclaimer: this was the first episode I filmed in-person in my new home studio. The video came out great, but the audio — especially on my end — isn’t quite up to the usual standard even after spending a large amount of time trying to save it. But, the kinks are now worked out, so all my future in-person episodes will have the professional, crispy audio you’re used to. If you’d like to watch this interview, check out the TCM YouTube channel — you can find the link in the show notes.One more thing. I have a huge favor I need from all of you. TCM’s Youtube channel currently has 665 subscribers and I really need to get to 1000. With the number of listeners we get per episode I know that we can hit that number within the week. So even if you prefer to listen to your podcasts outside of Youtube, please head over to the channel and hit subscribe. Watch The Climbing Majority on Youtube---Thanks to our sponsor!LIVSN DesignsCheckout their Ecotrek Overalls HEREUse Code "TCM15" At Checkout for 15% OFF Your Order---Get Access to Exclusive Episodes, Unlock Ad-Free Podcast, & MORE!---ResourcesAndrew's IG---We were recently rated #3 Top Climbing Podcast! Check it Out!

Today we once again have the honor of sitting down with The Quad Fathers—Michael Vaill and Tanner Wanish. The last time I spoke with them, they had just wrapped up their legendary Yosemite Quad. But little did we know, on the descent from Half Dome they were already scheming their next big objective: The Goliath Traverse. To give you a sense of scale, let’s break this thing down. The Goliath Traverse is a south-to-north, ridge link-up of two of the biggest traverses in the Sierra Nevada.The first is The Full Monty—a notoriously difficult 16-mile traverse of technical rock and mountaineering terrain. It involves 5.10 climbing, horrendous rock quality, immense exposure, and extreme endurance. It extends the already burly Full Palisade Traverse and by itself is a career-defining objective.The second half is The Full Evolution Crest, running from Bishop Pass to Piute Pass it involves miles of alpine rock, climbing up to 5.10, countless peaks over 13,000 feet, endless elevation gain and loss, and complex route-finding. First completed over eight days in 2008 by Scott McCook and Kyle Sox.Now imagine linking both of those together; that’s The Goliath Traverse. At 32 miles of climbing, more than 60 summits, nearly 50,000 feet of vertical gain, it is considered the longest technical ridge traverse in the Western Hemisphere. It was first completed in 2021 by Vitaliy Musiyenko in a solo, unsupported, alpine-style push over just eight days—no caches, no partners, no support. Just Vitaliy, his mind, and the mountains.In today’s conversation, we begin with a harrowing story from Tanner and Michael’s preparation trip to the Alps—a reminder of just how dangerous and unpredictable the mountains can be. When I say these two are lucky to be alive, it’s no exaggeration. At moments, it felt like I was talking to ghosts of fallen mountain athletes.We then dive into their successful second ascent of The Goliath, and how the experience has reshaped the way they’re setting goals in the mountains—at least for now.After his first ascent in 2021, Vitaliy reflected, “It didn’t feel like I had conquered Goliath…I had merely survived him.” As you’ll hear, Tanner and Michael would come to understand just how accurate that statement really was.Watch The Climbing Majority on Youtube---Thanks to our sponsor!LIVSN DesignsCheckout their Ecotrek Overalls HEREUse Code "TCM15" At Checkout for 15% OFF Your Order---Get Access to Exclusive Episodes, Unlock Ad-Free Podcast, & MORE!---ResourcesTanner's IGMichael's IGVitaly's FA Goliath Write Up---We were recently rated #3 Top Climbing Podcast! Check it Out!

My guest today is Michael Levy: recreational alpinist, rock climber, journalist and the owner and editor of The Summit Journal. Originally founded in 1955 by Jean Crenshaw and Helen Kilness, The Summit Journal was the first climbing-focused print publication in the U.S.—with Royal Robbins as its main editor. For decades it thrived, reaching over 10,000 subscribers, before being discontinued in 1996. After purchasing the rights to the name, Micheal has since revitalized it into a thriving, subscriber-based, print-only publication.Let me tell you—before this interview I read the most of the recent issue, and it is beautiful. Matte finish, incredible imagery, it even smells good. It’s artfully put together, and most importantly, it’s filled with some of the most unique, compelling, and engaging climbing stories. While it does highlight big names, Michael has made it a priority to also feature stories from the majority—the everyday climbers who make up the backbone of this community.In our conversation, we explore who Michael is as a climber, how his passion for journalism developed, and ultimately use that as a lens to discuss the state of climbing media today. We dive into what true journalism really means, how to curate compelling stories, how the internet has reshaped the landscape, and how Michael plans to navigate those waters while leaning fully into his print-only vision: The Summit Journal.I highly recommend heading over to The Summit Journal's website to learn more about this publication..and if you're interested pick up a copy of your own The first 15 listeners that sign up for an annual subscription to The Summit Journal get a free hat….Go to summitjournal.com and use the code TCM at checkout.----HELP SUPPORT THE SHOW, GET ACCESS TO EXCLUSIVE EPISODES!  For a little as $5/mo!----Don’t forget to check out our full video episodes on Youtube!---The TCM movement is growing but we need your help to spread the word! Word of mouth is one of the best ways to support the show. Share an episode with a friend.Post about the show on social media.Jump into Reddit threads or Mountain Project forums and tell people what you’re listening to.Tag the show, tag your favorite guests, help spread the word.Please rate and review us on your favorite podcatcher.---ResourcesGet The Summit Journal HEREMicheal Levy's InstagramSummit Journal's Instagram

Today, we’re doing something a little different. For the first time ever, I’m releasing a TCM Legacy Episode—diving back into one of the show’s earliest conversations, this one with Joshua Reinig.It’s been over three years since this episode first aired, and a lot has changed since then. For some of you, you’ll hear a familiar voice—my previous co-host, Max Carrier. But the biggest changes are in Josh’s own life, and those changes are exactly why I’m bringing you this newly remastered version of our conversation.I first met Josh over a decade ago, during my very first year of climbing, when he invited me—a complete gumby—out to one of his first ascent projects. Whether he realized it or not, that simple act of kindness shaped me as a climber, and I’m still grateful for it today. I also know I’m not the only one he’s impacted in that way.Since then, Josh and I have become close friends, following each other’s life stories closely. Over the course of his climbing career, Josh has put up more than 2,000 first ascents and currently sits in the top 20 Mountain Project contributors. His routes often focus on safe, moderate climbing that everyone can enjoy. He’s an AMGA apprentice rock and alpine guide with over 6,000 guided trips under his belt. It’s safe to say he’s dedicated a huge portion of his life to serving the climbing community.One of the main reasons for revisiting this conversation is some exciting news—Josh has just published the most comprehensive guidebook to the Alabama Hills climbing area. This 300-page book features over 700 routes, more than 100 of which are his own first ascents. It’s packed with detailed route descriptions, maps, and photos, the product of more than five years of work and documentation. With Alabama Hills now federally recognized as a scenic wildlife area, Josh also includes important guidance on how we can all respect and preserve this fragile place.For Josh, this guidebook is just another extension of what he’s always done—sharing climbing with others. He gives huge thanks to Marty and Sharon for mentoring him through the process, and to his wife, Melissa, who played a major role in the documentation and creative work.When I first heard about the guidebook, I offered to have Josh back on the show in person. But unfortunately, Josh has recently been diagnosed with thyroid cancer. The details of his prognosis are still unfolding, but he faces a difficult road ahead—one that may include surgery, chemo, and all the challenges that come with fighting cancer. The location of the cancer has already made speaking difficult, so joining me for a new conversation just wasn’t possible.As someone who has spent his life supporting the climbing community, Josh now needs our support. The best way to help is to purchase his Alabama Hills guidebook—link in the show notes. You can also donate directly via his GoFundMe, like I have. And if nothing else, please take a moment to send Josh your thoughts, prayers, or positive energy during this time.----HELP SUPPORT THE SHOW & GET ACCESS TO EXCLUSIVE EPISODES!  For a little as $5/mo!----Don’t forget to check out our full video episodes on Youtube!---ResourcesBuy The Alabama Hills GuidebookSupport Joshua on his Go Fund Me PageJoshua Reinig's Mountain Project Profile

We kick things off by diving into the nuances of Totems—what their limitations are, whether they’re as good as everyone says, and whether the mystical powers of the black Totem are fact or fiction. From there, we dig into climbing partnerships: what to look for, what to avoid, and how we can all be better partners. Tal shares two of his closest calls in the mountains and how they shaped his evolving relationship with risk. And then, we shift to Tal’s true passion: Wonderland.A 5 sqmi area southwest of Denver, CO that Tal has been developing for the last three years. While only a handful of first routes were developed in the area back in the 2000s by Jay Vonesh… Tal and his community has now since added well over 200 routes across numerous of the countless rock formations that litter the forested area. While it is a slab climber's paradise. Wonderland has something to offer for just about everyone with cracks, slabs, face climbs, and a variety of high quality bouldering. Expect to find this area littered with raspberries, mushrooms, owl pellets, bones, deer/elk scat, oddly friendly magpies, unnerving signs of big cats, great views, and a lot of solitude.For Tal, developing a climbing area is far more meaningful than any single route. He believes you need to “hear the song” of a place before you can truly develop it. The more intimately familiar you are with the rocks, the plants, the wildlife, the rhythm of the land—the better developer you become. A beautiful, poetic reflection of the depth and care Tal brings to this sport and his community.If you stoked about visiting Wonderland be sure to pick up a copy of the guidebook Tal made for the area. You can do so with the link in the episode show notes. Tal also invites anyone interested in meeting the local community to reach out! You’ll find Tal’s IG link below as well. ----HELP SUPPORT THE SHOW & GET ACCESS TO EXCLUSIVE EPISODES!  For a little as $5/mo!----Don’t forget to check out our full video episodes on Youtube!---The TCM movement is growing but we need your help to spread the word! Word of mouth is one of the best ways to support the show. Share an episode with a friend.Post about the show on social media.Jump into Reddit threads or Mountain Project forums and tell people what you’re listening to.Tag the show, tag your favorite guests, help spread the word.Please rate and review us on your favorite podcatcher.---ResourcesTal's IGBuy The Guidebook to Wonderland

Today, I sit down with Tal Wanish—rock climber, mentor, prominent route developer in Colorado’s Front Range, and brother of our previous guest, Tanner Wanish. But Tal’s not just a rogue route developer. He’s a deeply involved member of his local climbing community—someone who chooses to play by the rules in order to help foster sustainable growth for future generations.He’s replaced over 600 bolts as an instructor with the Boulder Climbing Community, and today he puts most of his effort into the Pikes Peak Climbers Alliance. There, he serves on the South Platte committee, helps organize clean-ups and fundraisers, and works directly with landowners to ensure new climbing development is legal and sustainable.While Tal is a thriving member of his community today…that wasn’t always the case. Plagued by imposter syndrome and his own crushing expectations to perform as a climber, he found himself quite alone in the world of climbing struggling to find partners and mentors.Everything changed when Tal shifted his focus—from numbers to impact. When he discovered route development and community involvement, climbing took on a new meaning. Since then, he’s helped establish over 160 routes in just the last four years and over a vertical mile of new climbs in just the last 12 months. While the grades no longer define him, he’s also recently broken into the 5.13 range—on his own terms.I really enjoyed this conversation with Tal. He loves climbing, but just as much—he loves sharing climbing with others. And there’s something truly special in that.----HELP SUPPORT THE SHOW & GET ACCESS TO EXCLUSIVE EPISODES!  For a little as $5/mo!----Don’t forget to check out our full video episodes on Youtube!---The TCM movement is growing but we need your help to spread the word! Word of mouth is one of the best ways to support the show. Share an episode with a friend.Post about the show on social media.Jump into Reddit threads or Mountain Project forums and tell people what you’re listening to.Tag the show, tag your favorite guests, help spread the word.Please rate and review us on your favorite podcatcher.---ResourcesTal's IG

Today, we’re continuing our conversation with Dean Rosnau. If you haven’t listened to Part I yet, I highly recommend checking that out before diving into this episode.We pick up with one of the most personal and tragic stories in Dean’s life: the loss of his close friend, Pete Schoerner, in an ice climbing accident. This part of the conversation is heavy—graphic at times—so please proceed with that in mind. But it’s also an important story, one that opens the door to a deeper conversation around grief: how it manifests, how we process it, and what it looks like to live on the other side of profound trauma.From there, we shift focus to a more positive side of the SAR experience—a rescue that saved three skiers’ lives after a cornice collapse on Mt. Dana. We explore why, despite the complex technical skill required and the real risk involved, nearly all search and rescue work remains volunteer. What does that mean for the people who do it—and what drives them to keep showing up?We also talk about the long-term emotional effect of saving a life. To witness someone you’ve rescued go on to live, have children, and impact the world—it changes something in the rescuer too.We close the episode by talking about Matthew Greene, a missing climber Dean has been searching for over the past 13 years. We go into the details of his disappearance, the painstaking efforts to find him, and the difficult question: when is it time to stop searching?You’ll hear both Dean and I reference a book throughout this conversation—The Shortest Straw: Search and Rescue in the High Sierra. It’s Dean’s memoir, filled with some of the most powerful stories from his 35 years in SAR. This podcast only scratches the surface. I encourage you to grab a copy and dive deeper. You can find the link to the book HERE----HELP SUPPORT THE SHOW & GET ACCESS TO EXCLUSIVE EPISODES!  For a little as $5/mo!----Don’t forget to check out our full video episodes on Youtube!---The TCM movement is growing but we need your help to spread the word! Word of mouth is one of the best ways to support the show. Share an episode with a friend.Post about the show on social media.Jump into Reddit threads or Mountain Project forums and tell people what you’re listening to.Tag the show, tag your favorite guests, help spread the word.Please rate and review us on your favorite podcatcher.---ResourcesDean's Book "The Shortest Straw: Search and Rescue in the High Sierra"Dean's WebsiteDean's IG

As we progress as climbers and inevitably turn our gaze toward higher peaks and more remote objectives, a common lesson begins to emerge: the mountains are a dangerous place to play. But early on, this remains a lesson heard, not truly learned. Inevitably, with enough time spent in remote places, something is bound to happen—either directly to us, or to someone close enough to sear this truth into our souls.From an early age, Dean Rosnau found himself brushing shoulders with death, learning not only that the mountains are dangerous—but that life itself is dangerous, and that our actions can carry severe consequences. Looking at your friend’s body in a casket, and watching a fallen climber bleed out at the base of Bridalveil Falls all before the age of 10 would shape anyone. What Dean didn’t know at the time was that the world was preparing him for some of the most challenging, demanding, and ultimately rewarding years of his life: those spent on the Search and Rescue team for the Eastern Sierra.Dean has since accumulated over 35 years of SAR work, recovered 66 bodies, and completed over 800 individual rescue missions—with more than 2.5 years of volunteer time spent away from his family, in the service of strangers.And this… is his story.We start part one of this conversation with Dean’s origin story—how he grew up as a young climber surrounded by legends like John Long, John Bachar, Bob Gaines, and Lynn Hill. We go into two very close calls that nearly cost Dean his life, and explore how we—not just as climbers, but as humans—can play safer in the mountains. We also discuss how we can aid search and rescue find our bodies… alive or dead… in the event that we go missing in the backcountry.This is a deep—and at times heavy—conversation, with some stories and visuals that may not be appropriate for children. Please proceed with that in mind.You’ll hear both Dean and I reference a book throughout this conversation: The Shortest Straw – Search and Rescue in the High Sierra. This is Dean Rosnau’s educational memoir of some of the cases he’s been involved in over his 35 years in SAR. While we reference a few of these stories here, this episode does no justice to reading the full thing. I highly encourage you to pick up a copy to truly understand the scope of Dean’s experience in the mountains. You can find a link to the book HERE----HELP SUPPORT THE SHOW & GET ACCESS TO EXCLUSIVE EPISODES!  For a little as $5/mo!----Don’t forget to check out our full video episodes on Youtube!---The TCM movement is growing but we need your help to spread the word! Word of mouth is one of the best ways to support the show. Share an episode with a friend.Post about the show on social media.Jump into Reddit threads or Mountain Project forums and tell people what you’re listening to.Tag the show, tag your favorite guests, help spread the word.Please rate and review us on your favorite podcatcher.---ResourcesDean's Book "The Shortest Straw: Search and Rescue in the High Sierra"Dean's WebsiteDean's IG