Court Drowns Pepperdine’s ‘Waves’ Trademark Battle Against Netflix

Is traditional Hollywood facing an existential crisis? Deloitte's 2025 Digital Media Trends report reveals a massive shift in how Gen Z and millennials consume content. Scott Hervey and Tara Sattler break down the data and explore what this means for studios, creators, and the future of storytelling on this episode of The Briefing. Watch this episode on the Weintraub YouTube channel. Show Notes: Scott: Deloitte released its 2025 digital media Trends earlier in March. It is a comprehensive look at the seismic shift rocking the media and entertainment landscape. Are traditional studios facing an existential crisis against these hyper scale and hyper capitalized tech giants? And with Gen Z and millennials finding social media content more relevant than TV and movies, what does this mean for the future of storytelling and celebrity? I'm Scott Hervey, partner in the entertainment and media Department of Weintraub Tobin. And today, I'm joined by my partner, Tara Sattler. Stick with us as we analyze these trends and what they mean for both the traditional and new media players navigating this rapidly evolving digital world in today's installment of The Briefing. Tara, welcome back to The Briefing. It's good to have you back. Tara: Thanks, Scott. Thanks for having me back. It's always great to be here. Scott: Yeah. I thought this one was going to be particularly relevant for both you and I because Our practice area is we both straddle both traditional media representing studios and production companies. And also we have another foot really squarely set in the creator economy, digital media, YouTube space, podcast. I think you and I have the benefit of seeing both sides of this. That's why I thought you'd be the perfect co-host for this one. Tara: We do, Scott. I think you're right. I've been looking through this report. It's really quite eye-opening. The shifts are significant, especially for the traditional media players who you and I both work with a lot. Scott: Yeah, absolutely. This report makes one thing abundantly clear, and I think it's something both of us have been talking to our clients about for a while. Social video platforms are becoming a dominant force in media and entertainment, and they do present a challenge to the traditional Hollywood model. So today we're going to summarize the key findings and discuss what opportunities exist for both traditional Hollywood studios and content producers and the content creators on platforms like YouTube. So let's dive in. So the report itself, the headline here is that social platforms are becoming the new center of gravity for media and entertainment. According to Deloitte, these platforms are drawing more of consumers' time and more of advertisers' money away from traditional media. Tara: Yeah, the report found that US consumers are spending about six hours daily on media and entertainment, and that number isn't growing. What's changing is how that time is distributed. Younger generations, especially Gen Z, are spending significantly less time watching traditional TV and movies and more time on social media platforms with user-generated content. Scott: Right. And Those numbers are pretty striking. Gen Z respondents are spending about 54% more time, so that's about 50 minutes more per day on social media platforms and watching user-generated content than the average consumer. They're spending 26% less time, so that's about 44 minutes less per day, watching TV and movies than the average person. Tara: It's not just about time spent. The report found that 56% of Gen Z and 43% of millennials say social media content is more relevant to them than traditional content like television shows and movies. Plus, about half of these generations feel a stronger personal connection to social media creators than they do to TV personalities or actors. Scott: Let's now talk about the advertising piece of this because it really is quite huge.

Can HBO be sued over a T-shirt? Scott Hervey and Tara Sattler unpack Duke University’s beef with 'White Lotus' after a character wore a Duke tee on screen. Does this cross the legal line—or is it just creative expression? They're talking trademark, the Rogers test, and what it all means for studios on this episode of The Briefing. Watch this episode on the Weintraub YouTube channel. Show Notes: Scott: In a recent episode, Timothy Ratliff is grappling with possible criminal liability for his involvement in a money laundering scheme. He thinks about taking his own life in a graphic scene where he holds a gun to his head while wearing a Duke University T-shirt. HBO didn't get permission from Duke, and Duke publicly expressed its displeasure with the situation in a statement with the New York Times. I'm Scott Hervey, a partner with the law firm Weintraub Tobin, and today I'm joined by my partner, Tara Sattler. We are going to break down the potential of Duke's trademark lawsuit against HBO on this installment of The Briefing. Tara, welcome back to The Briefing. Tara: Thanks for having me here, Scott. I do love the White Lotus series, so let's talk about this one. Scott: Yeah, I love the White Lotus series, too. But this is something you and I deal with a lot in our representation of television studios and production companies. I think this one is really relevant for you and me and also relevant for a lot of our audience. Okay, jumping in. Duke really is not happy about the situation. I'm really not happy. Duke's vice president for communications shared a statement with the New York Times, which stated as follows, Duke appreciates artistic expression and creative storytelling, but characters wearing apparel bearing Duke's federally-registered trademarks create confusion and mistakenly suggests an endorsement or affiliation where none exists. He wrote that in an email. He also said, White Lotus not only uses our brand without permission, but in our view, uses it on imagery that is troubling, does not reflect our values or who we are and simply goes too far. Tara: Like you said, Duke really isn't happy happy at all. But let's break down whether Duke really has any type of case against HBO besides just being unhappy. The shirt that was worn by the character had the name Duke on it, but it didn't have any design elements, logos, anything like that. We're really only talking about a trademark claim. Scott: Right. Yeah, it's not a copyright claim. Okay, with it being just a trademark claim, what do you think? Does Duke have a case? Tara: No, I really don't think that they do. As much as Duke may dislike the use of its T-shirt, all the things that the representative said, this is really exactly the situation that the Rogers test is meant to address. Scott: For us. For those that listen to this podcast, know that we talk about the Rogers test a lot. The Rogers test comes from a 1989 Second Circuit case, Rogers versus Grimaldi. It essentially creates a special framework for analyzing trademark claims when they involve expressive works protected by the First Amendment. Under the traditional Rogers test, the Lanamack doesn't apply to an expressive works use of a trademark unless that use has no artistic relevance to the underlying work or explicitly misleads consumers about the source or content of the work. Tara: That Rogers test went through a pretty significant change in 2023. We've talked about this a lot, too. Then the Supreme Court decided the case Jack Daniels Properties versus VIP Products. That case involved a dog toy called Bad Spaniels that parodied a Jack Daniels whiskey bottle. The court there significantly clarified when the Rogers test should apply. Scott: Yeah, the key distinction the Supreme Court made was that the Rogers test doesn't apply when a mark is used as a source identifier, regardless of whether it is also used to perform some expressive function. Tara: In other words,

Is 'The Pit' a spinoff, sequel, or something else entirely? Scott Hervey and Tara Sattler break down the lawsuit over 'ER' and whether 'The Pit' crosses the legal line into derivative territory on this episode of The Briefing. Watch this episode on the Weintraub YouTube channel.   Show Notes: Scott: A legal battle is in full swing over the hit medical drama, ER and the Pit, a new medical drama set in Pittsburgh. The agreement between the creator of ER, Michael Crichton and WB, says that any sequels, remakes, spinoffs, and/or other derivative works require the approval of Crichton, Amblin, and Warner Brothers. So, is the Pit any of those things? I'm Scott Hervey, a partner at the law firm of Weintraub Tobin, and today I'm joined by my partner, Tara Sattler. We are going We're going to discuss ER versus the Pit. What is the Pit? On this installment of The Briefing. Tara, welcome back. Tara: Hi, Scott. I'm happy to be here, especially talking about this topic. I really love all these medical traumas and was a big fan of ER back then, so this is going to be a fun one. Scott: Right. Did you do your homework this weekend? Tara: I did. Scott: Yeah, I did, too. I think Binge about five episodes of The Pit. Tara: And I liked it. Scott: Yeah, it was good. Tara: It was easy to do. Scott: I got to say, I Before we get into it, I am amazed at how the actors really sell themselves as doctors. I'm not a doctor, so probably maybe when a doctor is watching this, they probably look at it and go, They did that all wrong. We do when we watch legal traumas and we're like, This is wrong, all wrong. But from a layman, non-doctor, it looks quite, quite impressive. Tara: I agree. Scott: Well, so we previously reported in an episode where we broke down the initial skirmish between Crichton and W. B. And how Sherry Crichton survived Warner Brothers' attempt to shut down the lawsuit, her lawsuit, against Warner Brothers with an anti-slap Today, we are going to look at what will likely be next for Sherry Crichton, and that is establishing that the pit is some type of derivative of E. R. The 1994 agreement between Michael Crichton and Warner Brothers regarding the hit series E. R. Specifically freezes any subsequent productions. The exact wording used in the 1994 agreement is as follows, Any and all sequels, remakes, spin in-offs and/or derivative works shall be frozen, with mutual agreement between Creighton, Amblin, and Warner Brothers being necessary in order to move forward in any of these categories. Tara: That's really the crux of Creighton's case against Warner Brothers. What exactly is the Pit? Scott: Right. Let's go through that part of the 1994 agreement, and let's start with the question of whether the Pit is a sequel of E. R. I think the place to look at for the definition of sequel is probably the Writers Guild of America Minimum Basic Agreement. Under the WGA, a sequel, at least pursuant to the WGA MBA, it's defined as a film or a picture where the principal character of the original film or picture participate in a new and different story. Tara: On Noah Wiley played Dr. John Carter, and on the Pit, Noah Wiley plays Dr. Michael Robbie Rabinovitch. Are those characters essentially the same, or is Robbie really John Carter, 15 years later? Scott: Yeah, that's a tough one. On the surface, it seems that the answer is going to be no, because the two characters, they have different names. We don't really know too much Dr. Robbie's backstory yet. We know a little, but we don't know five episodes in. We don't really know a whole heck of a lot. But I don't think it's going to be that simple of an inquiry? Tara: Probably not, but I do think it's safe to say that the Pit isn't a remake of ER. Again, going back to the WGA, for definitions, a remake is substantially similar to a prior motion picture or television program regarding principal characters, setting, plot, storyline,

The estate of 'ER' creator Michael Crichton is suing Warner Brothers, claiming their new medical drama 'The Pit' is a derivative of 'ER.' IP and Entertainment attorneys Scott Hervey and Jessica Corpuz discuss this case on this episode of The Briefing. Watch this episode on the Weintraub YouTube channel.   Scott: A legal battle is unfolding over the hit medical drama, ‘The Pit,’ which the estate of Michael Crichton claims is the unauthorized successor to ER. The estate, represented by a roadrunner, JMTC LLC, has sued Warner Brothers television over The Pit, a new medical drama set in Pittsburgh. Warner Brothers attempted to shut down the lawsuit by using California's anti-slap statute, arguing that the case threatened their free speech rights, but the court didn't bite. I'm Scott Hervey, a partner with the law firm of Weintraub Tobin, and I'm joined today by my partner, Jessica Corpuz. We are going to talk about the court's decision to deny Warner Brothers' anti-slap motion and what this means for contract rights in the entertainment industry on today's installment of The Briefing. Jessica, welcome back to The I'm glad we could get my people to call your people and get you booked again. Jessica: Thanks so much for having me, Scott. Scott: Thanks. Well, why don't we jump right into this? Jessica: Thanks, Scott. So today we're unpacking a high-profile case in the entertainment world, Road Runner: JMTC/LLC versus Warner Brothers Television, which involves the estate of legendary author and screenwriter Michael Crichton, the long-running medical drama, ER, and a new TV show called The Pit. Scott: That's right. This case revolves around claims of breach of contract, interference with contractual relations, and whether the pit is a derivative of ER. Warner Brothers attempted to shut down the lawsuit with an anti-slap motion under California law, but the court denied it. So let's break it down, starting with some background on the parties. Jessica: So Michael Crichton, of course, is best known for Jurassic Park, but he also co-created ER, the wildly successful medical drama that ran for 15 seasons. After his passing, Crichton's widow, Sherry Crichton, on behalf of his estate, represented in the dispute that we're talking about today by Roadrunner J. M. T. C. Lllc, has been involved in legal efforts to protect his contractual rights as the creator of ER. Warner Brothers television, on the other hand, is a dominant force in TV production, and they're behind The Pit, a new medical drama set in Pittsburgh. The estate argues that the Pit is a derivative work of ER, and that Warner Brothers breached the 1994 agreement between Crichton Warner Brothers, concerning the ER pilot and the series. Scott: That's right. The 1994 agreement between Crichton and Warner Brothers specifically freezes any subsequent productions. The exact wording used in the 1994 agreement is as follows, Any and all sequels, remakes, spinoffs, and/or other derivative works shall be frozen, with mutual agreement between Crichton, Amblin, and Warner Brothers being necessary in order to move forward in any of these categories. Jessica: Okay, so that's the contract. But let's talk a little bit about the facts surrounding the party's discussions about the pit, since those facts play a really big role in this outcome we're talking about today. Scott: Yeah, you're right. They really do. So the complaint says that around Thanksgiving 2022, Sherry Crichton got a call from John Wells. Wells was one of the producers of ER, who purportedly told Sherry that there was going to be a big press release on deadline within days announcing an ER reboot, starring Noah Wiley, and that Wells would be producing it with Warner Brothers television for the HBO Max streaming service. According to the complaint, Warner Brothers made an offer, Crichton made a counter offer, and that included a guaranteed created by credit for Michael Crichton.

In this installment of The Briefing, Scott Hervey & Jessica Corpuz cover the landmark defamation case Copeland v. Netflix—dissecting the high bar for public figures to prove defamation and the critical concept of "actual malice." From the Surviving R. Kelly documentary to First Amendment protections, they unpack the legal complexities surrounding public figures and media reporting. Watch this episode on the Weintraub YouTube channel here. Show Notes: Scott: Surviving R. Kelly was a Netflix documentary series that delved into the extensive allegations of sexual abuse, misconduct, and predatory behavior leveled against the R&B singer R. Kelly. Diana Copeland, Kelly's former personal assistant, claims she was falsely portrayed in the documentary as being essentially a co-conspirator in Kelly's alleged sex crimes. Copeland sued Netflix and the producers of the documentary, Lifetime and A&E for defamation. There was a recent decision in Copeland versus Netflix, one that emphasized the stringent First Amendment protections for media when reporting on a public figure. How high is the bar for a public figure to prove defamation against the media outlet? And what does the legal concept of actual malice truly entail in such case? I'm Scott Herbie, a partner with the law firm of Weintraub Tobin, and I'm joined today by my partner, Jessica Corpus. Stay tuned as we dissect this significant decision and its implications for producers of programming of this type on this installment of the briefing. Jessica, welcome back. It's good to have you. Jessica: Thanks so much for having me, Scott. Scott: This one, I think, is going to be quite interesting. I always like defamation cases because there's always a lot to unpack. Jessica: Oh, they're very exciting cases. We get this question a lot, and having to educate people about the standard of defamation happens all the time in our world, so it's good to talk about it. Scott: Yeah, and more and more, you're seeing defamation claims come out of not just documentaries, but scripted, essentially, fictional docudramas. But today, we're looking at the R. Kelly documentary. And this is the recent decision in Diana Copeland versus Netflix. And it comes out of the United States district Court for the district of Delaware. That's a district we don't hear from very often, but we're hearing from them today. Jessica: So this decision comes as a result of Netflix's motion to dismiss. A motion to dismiss in federal court is called a Rule 12(b)(6) motion, and it's where a defendant moves to dismiss the complaint because the plaintiff has failed to state a claim upon which relief can be granted. In other words, the defendant is arguing that even if everything that the plaintiff claims is true, those claims still don't provide a legal basis for the court to grant them any relief. Scott: Well said. So this case centers on a lawsuit brought by Diana Copeland, who was the personal assistant for the singer R. Kelly. Following R. Kelly's arrest and charges relating to sexual abuse, Lifetime Entertainment produced a documentary series called Surviving R. Kelly. Copeland did not participate in the documentary. However, she alleges that an episode contained several false and defamatory statements about her, portraying her as a co-conspirator in Kelly's crimes. She subsequently sued Netflix, which distributed the series, along with its producers Lifetime and A&E, for defamation. Jessica: Those defendants moved to dismiss Copeland's claims. Netflix based its motion on the following arguments. First, that the fair report privilege protects the statements. Second, that the statements are non-actionable opinions based on disclosed facts. And three, that Copeland is a public figure and that she failed to plea that defendants published the statements with actual malice. Scott: That's right. Now, the court said it didn't need to address the first two arguments advanced by Netflix because Copeland...

A petition is calling for the Supreme Court to decide on the validity of the "discovery rule," which allows copyright claims long after the alleged infringement. NBA teams like the Indiana Pacers and Denver Nuggets are even weighing in, worried that social media posts from years ago could be used as grounds for lawsuits. Scott Hervey and Tara Sattler dive into this game-changing copyright case in this installment of The Briefing. Watch this episode on the Weintraub YouTube channel.

On the latest episode of The Briefing, Weintraub attorneys Scott Hervey and Jessica Corpuz break down the court’s decision in Pepperdine’s trademark fight with Netflix over the name "Waves" in the new series Running Point. Tune in for insights on this case and how the Jack Daniel's ruling is reshaping trademark law in entertainment. Watch this episode on the Weintraub YouTube channel. For more content like this, subscribe here.

Did you know the popular Stanley Travel Cup is tied to Stanley Black & Decker? A lawsuit is brewing over trademark rights and branding disputes. Is PMI overstepping, or is Stanley Black & Decker overreaching?  Weintraub Tobin attorneys Scott Hervey and Tara Sattler discuss the legal battle over the iconic cup on this episode of The Briefing. Watch this episode on the Weintraub YouTube channel here. Show Notes: Scott Most people who have spent any time in a Home Depot, a Lowe's, or an Ace Hardware are well aware of Stanley Black & Decker Company. They're a manufacturer of a wide variety of tools and equipment. Well, did you know that the very popular Stanley Travel Cup is manufactured in connection with an agreement with Stanley Black & Decker? Well, I didn't know of this relationship. Well, it seems that that relationship is soured, and there's some trouble brewing in that Stanley insulated Stanley Black & Decker, which has filed a lawsuit against the Cupmaker Pacific Market International for trademark infringement and breach of contract. I'm Scott Herbie, a partner with the law firm of Weintraub Tobin, and I'm joined today by my partner, Tara Sattler. We're going to talk about this case and some issues related to Stanley Black & Decker's claims on this installment of the briefing. Tara, welcome back to the briefing. Tara Hi, Scott. Always great to be here. Scott Do you own a Stanley Cup? Tara I do. I have one sitting right here on my desk out of the screen. Scott I have one as well. Okay, so that's why I picked this case for us to talk about because I think everybody has a Stanley Cup. Let's set the stage here. Stanley, Black & Decker, let's just refer to them as Stanley. They were founded way back in 1843 and built a solid reputation over nearly two centuries. They have a family of trademarks associated with Stanley, many of which have become incontestable. Tara Now, Pacific Market International's predecessor, Aladdin Industries, started selling Stanley-branded insulated containers in 1913 when William Stanley Jr. Developed the revolutionary vacuum flask. The complaint alleges that beginning in 1966, Stanley and Aladdin entered into a series of agreements which sought to limit Aladdin's use of the Stanley trademark. Scott These agreements, at least as it's alleged in the complaint, restricted Aladdin and the company that bought Aladdin, Pacific Market International, we'll just call them PMI, their use of Stanley to specific goods. Fast forward to 2012, the parties entered into another agreement to address PMIs, then allegedly non-use of Stanley, which exceeded the scope of the previous agreement. This new agreement, according to the complaint, again further limited PMI's use of the mark to insulate food and beverage containers and placed requirements on how Aladdin and PMI could use the Stanley name in advertising and online. Tara Okay, so then what triggered Stanley to file a complaint? Scott Well, according to the complaint, PMI has been willfully and intentionally disregarding the 2012 agreement. Specifically, Stanley accused PMI of dropping PMI in its company name, that it changed its company name to just Stanley. Stanley also says PMI expanded its product offerings beyond food and beverage containers to include items such as apparel. Tara The 2012 Agreement expressly limits PMI's use of Stanley solely to use as a trademark to promote and sell insulated and non-insulated containers for food or beverages and carrying cases for transporting the same. Scott Right, that's what the complaint says. The complaint also accuses PMI of using the domain name www.stanley1913.com without prominently displaying PMI, and also failing to include PMI prominently in advertising materials and on products, including point-of-sale displays. Tara It sounds like Stanley Black & Decker is claiming PMI essentially tried to rebrand themselves as just Stanley in order to capitalize on the br...

Major AI copyright ruling - The Delaware District Court’s decision in Thomson Reuters v. Ross AI could have huge implications for AI training and copyright law. On this episode of The Briefing, Weintraub attorneys Scott Hervey and Andy Tan break down the case, its impact on the AI industry, and what it means for content creators. Watch this episode on the Weintraub YouTube channel here. Show Notes: Scott: This February, the Delaware District Court, in the case of Thompson Reuters versus Ross AI, issued a decision that will have, in all likelihood, profound ramifications on all pending AI copyright infringement cases. I'm Scott Herbie, a partner at the law firm of Weintraub Tobin, and I'm joined today by my colleague, Andy Tan. We're going to walk through the court's decision in Thompson Reuters versus Ross AI and discuss how this case will impact the other AI training, copyright infringement cases currently pending. We'll also talk about what this case could mean, both for the AI industry and the creators of content on this installment of “The Briefing.” Andy, welcome to “The Briefing.” This is your first time on “The Briefing”, so thanks for doing this. Andy: Thanks, Scott. It's an honor to be part of it. I've been a long-time fan and watcher, so it's great to be on now. Scott Well, we're glad to have you. This case is right up your alley. You do a lot of deals in the AI space, so I thought this one would be appropriate for you to do with me. Andy Yeah, it's definitely coming up, and AI is the hot topic in the legal world for the foreseeable future, I think. Scott Yeah, that's for sure. Well, let's start. Why don't we start with the facts of the case because this case, it's got some interesting twist and turns. Andy, can you take us through the basic facts of the case? Andy Yeah, I would be happy to. I'll run through the basic facts of the case. If you want a more in-depth discussion, you should check out the November 9, 2023, episode of The Briefing, where Scott and our colleague Tara go over it in detail. I'll just go over the facts Again. But so, who are the players? Reuters owns West Law. It's one of the primary legal research tools. Ross was a legal research AI startup. I say was because Ross AI closed down as an operating company in 2020. They said it was due to the Thompson Reuters lawsuit, but its insurance coverage probably allowed it to continue to defend the Thompson Reuters lawsuit, so we're not sure that's the reason. Ross hired a subcontractor to create memos memos with legal questions and answers. Now, these questions were meant to be those that a lawyer would ask, and the answers were direct quotations from legal opinions. They used these memos to train Ross's AI legal research tool so that when a user asks a legal question, Ross's tool responds with relevant judicial opinions, which Reuters is saying is similar to Westlaw's headnotes. Reuters, the provider of the Westlaw Service, contended that these questions were essentially Westlaw case notes, and the court found, as a matter of law, that Ross copied portions of the Westlaw headnotes. Andy Ross challenged Reuters' copyright in the headnotes and raised a fair use defense. Scott That's right. This case is particularly interesting because it features something rare in federal courts: a judge reversing his own prior summary judgment ruling. Let's start with the procedural history because that It's unique. This case, as you said, began in 2020 when Thompson Reuters sued Ross in Delaware district Court. In 2023, Judge Bibas issued a summary judgment opinion that largely denied Thompson Reuters' motions on copyright infringement and fair use. But then something unusual happened. As the case was heading towards trial that was scheduled for August 2024, Judge Bibas took a closer look at the materials and had what you might say is a judicial epiphany. The judge continued the trial date and invited the parties to renew their summary jud...

In the case of Sydney Nicole vs. Alyssa Sheil, a federal district judge ruled that certain vibes and aesthetics can be protected under copyright law. Weintraub attorneys Scott Hervey and Tara Sattler break down this decision and what it means for content creators and brands in the digital age on this episode of The Briefing. Watch this episode on the Weintraub YouTube channel here. Show Notes: Scott: In December of last year, we talked about the report and recommendation of a magistrate judge that would hold that a vibe or a look could be protected under copyright law. That report was adopted by the district Court for the Western district of Texas. So, it seems, at least in the Western district of Texas, that copyright law extends to protection of ideas, concepts, or general styles. I'm Scott Hervey, a partner with the law firm of Weintraub Tobin, I'm joined today by my partner, Tara Sattler. Given the adoption of the Magistrate Judges recommendations, we are going to discuss the potential implications of this case, Sydney Nicole versus Alyssa Sheil, on the creator marketing industry on this installment of the briefing. Tara, welcome back to the briefing. Tara: Hi there, Scott. Always great to be here. Scott: Good to have you again, Tara. I think this is going to be a real interesting discussion here. As a quick recap, this case involved a dispute between Sydney Nicole, a content creator, and Alyssa Sheil, another creator, accused of copying Nicole's online content. Sydney Nicole alleged that Sheil's work closely mimicked her original content, including the themes, style, and presentation of her videos. However, she'll argue that she was merely drawing on a general model and idea and concept that copyright law has traditionally deemed unprotectible. Namely, this Clean Girl look, a very popular look among content creators and the creator marketing community. Adopters of this look include the likes of Hailey Bieber, Bella Hadid, Selena Gomez and Kim Kardashian, to name just a few. Tara: The federal magistrate judge issued a report and recommendation, which was later adopted by the district court, siding with Nicole. The ruling found that Sheil's content bore sufficient similarity to Nicole's protected expression rather than just her general ideas, effectively expanding the scope of what might be considered copyright infringement in the digital content space. Scott: So we're not going to analyze the decision itself. For that, I recommend our listeners check out our previous episode on this case back in December. We're going to put a link in the episode description to make it easy for you to find. What I want to talk about today are the critical issues for content creators and brands and the broader creator economy because of this case. So The first thing I want to talk about is that the finding of this case potentially blurs the line between protecting expression and protecting ideas. Tara: I definitely think you're right, Scott. One of the foundational principles of copyright law is that it protects the specific expression of an idea, but not the idea itself. However, this ruling raises concerns that court may be moving towards an approach that grants de facto protection to certain creative concepts, especially within digital content creation. Scott: That's right. The similarities in this case were largely thematic or conceptual. I think there's a chance that this decision risks chilling the very creative development that copyright law has meant to foster. Creators often build upon common trends and esthetics and industry norms, and if those elements can be locked down as protected expression, it could deter new entrance and limit creative evolution. Tara: That's right. This case could also open the door to secondary liability for brands that work with influencers. If an influencer unknow post content that closely resembles another creator's work,