Marion Boberg · Run Journeys Like a Pro

Nearly every company has a customer journey map somewhere. Laminated, on a wall, hidden in a drawer. Beautiful, and mostly inert. Marion Boberg's point is that the map was never the work. Running the journey is.Marion is a customer experience leader with a PhD and more than a decade in the field, and she thinks harder than almost anyone about the gap between what a journey looks like and what a journey does. In this conversation she makes the case for journey operations: not one pretty map, but a system of key journeys with owners, a backlog, and a governance model, run like product management.She also gets practical about the parts nobody talks about: starting from segmentation instead of personas, using the data you already sit on to build the map before you ever recruit a customer, and why CX has to earn its budget as a business function tied to real numbers. And on AI, she draws a clean line: automate the mapping all you want, but the cross-functional facilitation, the getting people in a room to solve the problem together, stays human.In this episode:Why the interesting part of CX is the operation, not the mappingJourney operations vs. journey mapping, and what it takes to keep a journey alive after the workshopSegmentation over personas, and letting data build the hypothesis before customers validate itWhy journey ownership needs both a top-down mandate and a bottom-up pushCX as a business function: show the numbers, or you're outWhat AI can automate in journey work, and the human part it can't touch"For me, the interesting part in CX is the operation. It's not the mapping." — Marion Boberg

We design customer journeys as if people weigh every option, read all the copy, and pick the best deal. That’s not how brains work. Kaat Declerck puts real behavioral science underneath the experiences we design, and her first lesson is a warning about how most people get it wrong.Kaat came to behavior design the long way, from communication science into marketing, which felt too fluffy, then into conversion work where results were finally measurable, and then into behavioral science by way of Kahneman and Cialdini. The thing she had to unlearn is the thing most teams never do: you don’t start with the techniques. Grabbing social proof and a countdown timer and sprinkling them across a page is the fun part, but it’s backwards. Real behavior design starts with research into how people actually behave and where the friction really is, and only then reaches for a technique.That’s also what separates it from manipulation. Her test is intent: help people who already want to act by removing what’s in their way, rather than pressuring people who don’t. She’s practical about the rest too, why friction is sometimes a good thing, why she analyzes the whole flow and the customer’s context and not just the page that “tests fine,” and why the smallest change, usually the copy and the jargon nobody inside the company can still see, moves the most. And on AI, she’s clear: it can brief, draft, and speed you up, but it can’t do your research or decide what matters. The detail that wins, like truck drivers who care about the brand of the truck and even the color of the curtain, is the thing AI will never tell you.In this episode:Why behavior design starts with research, not techniquesThe line between behavior design and manipulation, and why intent decides itWhen friction is a good thing, and when removing it just creates stressBehavior analysis vs. validation testing: reading the touchpoint, the flow, and the contextThe ACT framework: appeal, capability, and triggerWhy copy and jargon are the easiest wins and the hardest to see from insideWhat AI can and can’t do in behavior design, and the research gold it will never hand you“So let’s help people instead of force.” — Kaat Declerck

Every serious company runs a voice of customer program now. Most of them are drowning in surveys and still not acting on what they hear. The gap was never listening. It's what happens next.Bill Staikos has led CX inside JP Morgan, Amex, Freddie Mac, and Medallia, and he's blunt about why feedback so rarely turns into action. Surveys alone can't fix the systemic stuff. Employees can't be heroes forever. And the answer is almost never another tool.In this episode, Bill walks through the four loops of customer feedback (inner, outer, and the two most teams miss: orchestration and learning), why happy employees are only half the battle, and the one practical move every CX leader should make this week: stop shopping for AI, and start feeding your AI the years of feedback data you already own.In this episode:Why voice of customer is an action problem, not a listening oneThe four loops of feedback, and the two most companies forget"Watermelon clients," and how the right data at the right time saved hundreds of millions in retentionWhy hero CX doesn't scale, and what to give employees insteadWhere LLMs actually help with feedback, and where they'll happily mislead youThe corpus of data already inside your company, and how to put it to work"Hero CX doesn't work over the long term. It's just not sustainable. You've got to give them the right data." — Bill Staikos

Almost every brand says it's customer-centric. Almost all of it is aimed at the tiny slice of people ready to buy today, and nobody is marketing to the wait.B2B marketing strategist Justina Ciecierska opens the new season by taking apart that habit. At any given moment, only 1 to 5% of your audience is actually in a buying window, and by the time they get there, most have already made up their minds. So pouring your budget into that moment is a tough sell at best.Her alternative: build a waiting room in the buyer's head. Optimize part of your marketing not to convert, but to be remembered, so that when the window finally opens, you're the brand they think of first.In this episode:Why buying windows are shorter and rarer than marketers admitCategory entry points, and how they reveal what your product really means to a customerThe split between the "waiting room" (memory) and the "sales room" (making it easy to buy)Why emotion is the one thing you should never hand to a machineA call to make ads worth remembering again"It's literally programming and repeating, repeating, repeating. Human memory is like, you forget about things." — Justina Ciecierska

The conversation delves into the intersection of behavioral science, customer experience, and human decision-making. Paul Craven, an expert in investment decision-making and behavioral finance, shares insights on the human behavioral side of investment and the impact of unconscious decision-making. The discussion also explores the application of behavioral science in real money decisions and the role of persuasion techniques in influencing customer behavior. The conversation delves into the importance of emotional intelligence and human connection in customer service and organizational culture. It explores the impact of feedback surveys, the role of emotional intelligence in customer interactions, and the future of AI in customer service. The speakers emphasize the significance of genuine human connection and the limitations of AI in replicating it.TakeawaysBehavioral science plays a crucial role in understanding human decision-making.The warmth of customer service is influenced by individual interactions and the permission level within organizations. Emotional intelligence is crucial in customer service and organizational cultureGenuine human connection is irreplaceable by AIChapters00:00 Understanding Human Decision-Making02:11 The Elephant and the Rider Metaphor03:34 Applying Behavioral Science to Real Money Decisions05:40 Principles of Persuasion and Customer Influence18:23 The Gap Between Brand Messaging and Customer Perception30:21 The Role of Warmth in Customer Service36:57 The Impact of Emotional Intelligence in Customer Interactions40:03 The Pitfalls of Over-Reliance on Feedback Surveys43:27 The Role of Emotional Intelligence in Organizational Culture54:13 The Future of AI in Customer Service01:14:21 The Significance of Genuine Human Connection

In this episode, the host explores the unique experiences and cultural aspects of the Netherlands, focusing on positioning, marketing strategies, and the impact of technology on brand positioning. The conversation delves into the Dutch culture of directness, the concept of the marketing waiting room, and the challenges and opportunities presented by AI in brand positioning. The conversation covers the intersection of marketing, technology, and human touch, the influence of cultural identity on customer experience, the impact of a sales mindset on customer-centric strategies, the shift from a product-focused approach to a customer-centric mindset, the importance of sustainable growth strategies, the strengths and areas for improvement in Dutch customer experience, and the Dutch approach to overcoming obstacles and challenges.TakeawaysDutch culture values directness, which influences marketing and customer experience strategies.The marketing waiting room concept challenges the traditional approach to marketing and emphasizes the importance of positioning in the buyer's mind. The value of creativity and human judgment in marketingThe importance of understanding and balancing cultural influences in customer experienceChapters00:00 The Netherlands: A Unique Experience06:37 The Marketing Waiting Room and the 95-5 Rule13:06 The Impact of Technology on Brand Positioning20:54 The Future of Brand Positioning and AI28:03 Sales Mindset and Customer Experience37:09 Long-Term Growth and Sustainable Strategies42:48 Dutch Strengths and Areas for Improvement in Customer Experience50:04 The Dutch Approach to Overcoming Obstacles

Table 7 · S2 · E01 — The Art of the AndsGermany · with hosts Michel Stevens & Bram De VosMichel and Bram packed a car in Belgium and drove eight hours into Germany to test a stereotype. Efficient. Organized. A little serious. They came back with the season's thesis instead: the best customer experiences aren't built by choosing between precision and warmth. They're built by holding on to both. Three interviews, two cities, ski jumping, river surfing, and one finger-wrestling champion.Chapters00:00 — Why we drove eight hours to Germany01:24 — Belgium to Munich. Eight hours, Michel's taste in music, coffee.02:16 — Cologne. Meeting Dr Graham Hill (former plant geneticist)03:00 — Marks & Spencer interviewed 3,000 Germans. Hired virtually none.06:30 — The 5% rule, and why CRM isn't about customers14:45 — Rethinking the stereotype on the way south16:30 — Munich. Meeting Christian Peter, author of It Depends on the Ands28:00 — AI in CX: more noise or more signal?35:42 — The Eisbachwelle: a permanent surf wave in a city with no ocean39:00 — Helmut Blocher: sixteen years, same conference, on purpose43:03 — Frances Chapireau: surveys, closeness, and German trust47:57 — South to the Alps. The Olympia Schanze.51:00 — Thomas Post: competitive finger wrestler since age threeGuests, in order of appearanceGraham Hill — CX consultant, Cologne. PhD in plant genetics, three decades consulting some of the largest enterprises in Europe. Toyota-Lean lineage, jobs-to-be-done practitioner, sceptic of journey-mapping orthodoxy.LinkedInChristian Peter — Munich-based author and former German banker. Author of It Depends on the Ands (the case for combining opposites in customer focus: data and human, automation and empathy, today and tomorrow).LinkedIn · BookHelmut Blocher — Organizer of the German CRM Forum, sixteen years and counting. Has deliberately refused to scale the event past a few hundred. Specialist in CRM, innovation, and transformation.LinkedIn · ConferenceFrances Chapireau — Keynote speaker at the German CRM Forum. British-born, Germany-based VoC specialist. Champion of customer-advisory boards over survey monoculture.LinkedInThomas Post — Reigning German champion in Fingerhakln (finger wrestling), Mittenwald. Third-generation competitor. Started at age three.HostsMichel Stevens — Course Director, CXM Academy. CX practitioner, writer, and traveller.LinkedInBram De Vos — Co-host. The man who said yes to driving eight hours for a podcast.LinkedInThis episode was produced by CXM Academy, the school for people who want to actually do customer experience, not just talk about it. Use code TABLE7 for 15% off your first program. Limited time offer.

The conversation explores the purpose of content marketing, emphasizing its role in reducing friction, increasing confidence, and deepening customer relationships.Content serves to reduce friction, increase confidence, or deepen the customer relationship

The conversation explores the distinction between AI fluency and intelligence, highlighting the impact of fluency on human perception. It also delves into the concept of trust in AI language models and the influence of clear and convincing explanations.TakeawaysAI fluency influences human perceptionTrust in AI language models is influenced by the clarity and confidence of explanations

The conversation delves into the essence of a real CX strategy, the assessment of organizational capabilities, the challenge of pushing back on quick fixes, prioritizing CX investments, connecting CX strategy to business outcomes, and starting a CX strategy. It emphasizes the importance of customer data, analytics, and organizational alignment in building a successful CX strategy.TakeawaysReal CX strategy is not just a list of initiatives, but a clear-eyed assessment of what can be done and what should be done.Connecting a CX strategy to business outcomes requires a deep understanding of customer data, analytics, and organizational alignment.Chapters00:00 Defining a Real CX Strategy05:38 Assessing Organizational Capabilities12:31 Prioritizing CX Investments28:08 Starting a CX Strategy