253. Leading from a Place of Inner Abundance, a Quick Conversation with Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Burnout. An all too familiar experience for most of us.  It's more than just feeling tired or overworked. It's that crushing sense of futility when your passion for ministry runs out, and it leaves you wondering if you can even continue the work you were once so excited about.Jonathan Hoover, the author of Stress Fracture, Your Ultimate Guide to Beating Burnout, shares valuable insights from his experience and research, including practical strategies for managing stress, the importance of self-care, and maintaining emotional and spiritual health in leadership. THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Jonathan Hoover shares the significant stress his father faced while pastoring their church.Jonathan Hoover explains how his father experienced severe emotional and physical symptoms of burnout.Markus Watson asks about the role of spirituality in addressing burnout.Jonathan Hoover highlights how the biblical story of Elijah offers insights into addressing burnout through rest and care.The world tempts people to believe they are infinite, leading to stress and burnout.Jonathan Hoover talks about 'super rats' and the dangers of endless adaptation to stress.Creating margin in life by setting limits can help prevent burnout.Monitoring multiple aspects of life, such as physical and emotional health, can help manage burnout.Jonathan Hoover introduces the concept of emotional exhaustion and how it impacts emotional regulation.Emotional intelligence decreases as emotional exhaustion increases.Burnout leads to a loss of passion and a fatalistic outlook on success.Minimizing distractions and increasing self-awareness are crucial in preventing burnout.To prevent burnout, people need to realize their own limits and adjust their workloads.Jonathan Hoover explains that emotional awareness is necessary for making lifestyle adjustments.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Jonathan Hoover:Website – drjonathanhoover.comChurch website - Newspring.orgBooks mentioned:Stress Fracture, by Jonathan HooverLeadership on the Line, by Ronald Heifetz and Marty LinskyRelated episodes:136. Healthy Attachment and Spiritual Leadership, with Todd Hall175. From Burnout to Resilience, with Jason Young179. The Neuroscience of Spiritual Formation, with Jim WilderClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the essential question: "What thirsts of my soul am I bringing to my congregation?" They discuss the importance of leaders acknowledging their own needs and the dangers of seeking fulfillment from their congregations instead of God. Learn how aligning personal needs with God's guidance can help leaders bring true abundance to their communities.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Alan Fadling in Ep 238, Lead with Less Anxiety:"What thirsts of my soul am I bringing to my congregation in hopes they'll meet me there rather than learning to take the thirsts of my soul to God so that God could meet me in those places? And then I could bring abundance to the community of people entrusted to me.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders must acknowledge their needs to avoid seeking affirmation from their congregations improperly.Effective leaders should bring their soul’s needs to God rather than their congregations.Leaders face the temptation of people-pleasing, which can derail their adherence to God's mission.Being transparent about personal needs helps leaders avoid subconscious behaviors that could hinder mission-focused leadership.Fulfilling personal needs through appropriate relationships prevents dependence on congregational approval.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!This episode tackles the topic of being "othered" by those in church leadership, an important conversation for anyone in ministry leadership who wants to understand how to create an environment of embrace, of love, of belonging—and of being a healthy team.Jenai Auman, the author of Othered, discusses her personal experiences of being othered by church leaders, the impact it had on her, and how leaders can cultivate communities marked by shalom and hesed.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Jenai Auman shares her struggles with toxic issues and resistance at a church where she was on staff.Advocacy for personal boundaries led to Jenai being labeled as the problem and asked to leave the church.Individuals often remain in unhealthy environments due to a shallow understanding of love and belonging, influenced by past trauma.Jenai Auman identifies with domestic violence survivors in her determination to fix the system from within.Through her painful experience, Jenai Auman gained transformative wisdom and spiritual growth.Emphasizing the importance of healing, Jenai Auman aims to avoid bitterness and repeating the harm done to her.The hesed of God demonstrates loving kindness and compassion, aiming for wholeness in a fractured world.The zero-sum game misconception causes competition for comfort and peace, but God's shalom advocates for abundance.By adopting an open-handed posture towards others, we mirror God's nature, fostering inclusivity and belonging.Jenai Auman advises those feeling othered to recognize their inherent belovedness without seeking external validation.Church leaders should focus on self-reflection and compassion, avoiding defensive othering.Jenai Auman discusses the concept of shalom as a state of peace involving love, wisdom, and understanding personal stories.Naming experiences of othering is crucial for healing, enabling reconciliation and peace.Jenai Auman reflects on how her experiences with othering have shaped her understanding of mutuality and divine love.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Jenai Auman:WebsiteSubstackEmailBooks mentioned:Othered, by Jenai AumanRelated episodes:82: Narcissism and Spiritual Leadership, with Chuck DeGroat92. Against a Culture of Abuse, with Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer163. You Can’t Be Found if You’re Never Lost, with Steve CarterClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson reflect on how fear influences our congregations and the importance of addressing it directly. They discuss the role of technical expertise in building trust and how leaders can compassionately accompany people through their fears, especially in times of change and perceived loss. Tod shares strategies for normalizing fear, creating communities of empathy, and tackling resistance by engaging with those who are most fearful.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from David Quel in Ep 236, Supporting Families with Autism in Your Church:“People have a tendency to be fearful of what they don't understand and what they don't know.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Tod Bolsinger emphasizes the importance of accompanying people through their fears in leadership.Leaders need to acknowledge and normalize fear to help people navigate their anxieties.Churches should invite experts to build technical competence and trust.Addressing resistance directly helps calm fears and fosters gradual progress.Creating a community of empathy ensures that no one faces loss or fear alone.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!In this episode, we’re taking a deep-dive into the complex and, at times, nerve-wracking experience of deconstruction. Leaders often worry about its impact on their roles, their authority, and on the harmony or unity of their church communities. But what if deconstruction is less about tearing down faith and more about stripping away what's non-essential, centering instead on Jesus?In this epidsode, Scot McKnight, author of Invisible Jesus, sheds light on how deconstruction can be a path to a more Christ-focused faith, emphasizing the importance of creating supportive spaces for exploring and asking questions. This conversation is crucial for ministry leaders navigating their own or their congregants' journeys of faith reformation.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Markus Watson addresses the nervousness leaders feel about deconstruction and its potential impacts on their beliefs.Scot McKnight highlights that leaders fear deconstruction because it threatens their job security, authority, and influence.People undergoing deconstruction can disrupt church communities, creating anxiety about church teachings.Markus Watson emphasizes the need for leaders to find safe spaces outside their church community for discussing deconstruction.Scot McKnight suggests that churches should support and provide safe exploration spaces instead of trying to control questioning individuals.Pastors face pressure to have all the answers, and questioning can trigger their insecurities about their role and authority.Markus Watson discusses how churches need to shift their culture to become open to questioning and changes.Scot McKnight reflects on his book "Invisible Jesus," addressing how deconstruction is not about abandoning faith but refocusing on Christ by removing non-essential elements.A study cited by Scot McKnight shows that 86% of people who undergo deconstruction remain in the church, although they may change congregations.Deconstruction resembles a personal Protestant Reformation where individuals reassess and personalize their faith journey.Scot McKnight draws parallels between deconstruction and historical movements aimed at shedding unnecessary church practices or beliefs, focusing on continual reform.Scot McKnight states that Jesus acted as a deconstructor, challenging the law within Judaism similar to the prophets.The church's role should involve listening to deconstructors rather than fearing or dismissing them, promoting an adaptive leadership approach.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Scot McKnight:SubstackBooks mentioned:Invisible Jesus, by Scot McKnight and Tommy PhillipsA Church Called Tov, by Scot McKnight and Laura BarringerRevelation for the Rest of Us, by Scot McKnight and Cody MatchettRelated episodes:171. Leading Your Ministry as a Dissident Disciple, with Scot McKnight98. Deconstruction and Reconstruction, with A.J. Swoboda92. Against a Culture of Abuse, with Scot McKnight and Laura BarringerClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson engage in a meaningful conversation about the delicate balance of honoring the "inherited church" while experimenting on the edges to drive adaptive change. Drawing from a quote by Shannon Kiser, who is deeply involved in adaptive leadership and fresh expressions of church, Tod explains how churches can innovate without discarding valuable traditions.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Shannon Kiser in Ep 177, Exploring New Forms of Church:“We don’t have to give up what we love and cherish about the inherited church to also experiment on the edges.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Church leaders honor the inherited church by experimenting on the edges without abandoning tradition.Adaptive leadership brings life to faith communities by evolving core practices to fit changing environments.Teams conduct modest experiments on the fringes to introduce effective innovations into the church.Effective change requires balancing respect for the past with openness to new approaches.Congregations thrive by integrating new discoveries that cater to both historical and present needs.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!In this special Christmas Eve episode of Spiritual Life and Leadership, Markus Watson takes a moment to share some heartfelt encouragement for those feeling the weight of ministry's demands. Reflecting on both personal and professional burdens, Markus reminds us of the importance of leaning on Jesus to find true rest and relief. By exploring the story of the shepherds, magi, and even King Herod, Markus illustrates how Jesus invites each of us to let go of our exhaustion and allow Him to help carry our burdens.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Pastors face a lot of pressure in preparing sermons, providing pastoral care, leading meetings, and handling administrative duties.The constant demand for excellence in ministry, even during times of societal change, amplifies stress and feelings of responsibility.Markus Watson emphasizes the added strain of personal burdens, describing his own experience caring for aging parents.Life’s cumulative burdens, both personal and professional, contribute to a persistent feeling of exhaustion.Despite exhaustion, love and care for congregants and loved ones remain a priority.The host draws an analogy between the exhaustion of ministry workers and the biblical figures present at Jesus' birth.Shepherds, magi, and the people of Israel felt weary from their own burdens.Markus Watson points out that King Herod also experienced weariness, though he rejected the invitation of Jesus’ birth.Jesus' words in Matthew 11 are an invitation for rest and relief.Markus Watson concludes by encouraging listeners to allow Jesus to help carry their personal and ministry burdens, reassuring them that they are not alone.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Related episodes:117. Leading with Courage and Integrity in Times of Discontinuous Change206. The Healing Power of Pilgrimage, with Jon Huckins244. Finding Strength in Desperation, with Mandy SmithClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger discuss the concept of the kingdom of God as a way of life, rather than a distant place. Inspired by a powerful quote from Yolanda Solomon, they discuss the profound implications this understanding has for ministry leadership and personal discipleship. Discover how embracing God's will in the present moment can transform your leadership and community, and what it means to live out the reality of God's reign right here, right now.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Yolanda Solomon in Ep 232, Learning from Jesus:"The kingdom that Jesus proclaims and the kingdom that Jesus embodies is not a place. It's a way of life."Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!What if prayer wasn’t just a box to check off your to-do list, but a lifeline deeply integrated into every moment of your life and your leadership? Imagine navigating every challenge, every conflict, and every transition with an ongoing sense that God is with you.Jeff Hoffmeyer is Vice President for Advancement and Resident Theologian for the Denver Institute for Faith and Work, and a teacher in the Doctor of Ministry program at Fuller Theological Seminary. In this episode, Jeff shares his insights on the significance of prayer in leadership, how to keep prayer practices fresh and meaningful, and how to integrate the Bible into your prayer life, turning it into a rich resource for your ministry.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Markus Watson introduces the concept of "praying without ceasing," questioning its feasibility and practical application.Jeff Hoffmeyer suggests that "praying without ceasing" involves including God in every moment of daily life.Prayer can be incorporated into transitions between tasks, making it a continuous practice.Markus Watson compares prayer to a comfortable silence in relationships, emphasizing a connection without constant conversation.Jeff Hoffmeyer highlights that prayer involves more than words, incorporating awareness and presence with God.The Bible serves as a resource for ministry and prayer, guiding conversations with God and integrating scripture into prayers.Markus Watson shares his experience with Lectio Divina, finding it more meaningful than quick Bible readings.Jeff Hoffmeyer underscores the importance of prayer for leadership, even if it doesn't feel mastered.Maintaining a connection with God through prayer helps leaders ground their identity in Christ amid challenges.Jeff Hoffmeyer discusses the role of attention in leadership, advocating for understanding personal anxiety and others' motivations.Jeff Hoffmeyer emphasizes the need to attend to the world's needs, whether as church leaders, business leaders, or parents.Markus Watson appreciates the contemplative nature of Hoffmeyer's podcast, noting its thoughtful, longer conversations.Jeff Hoffmeyer describes prayer as a "resource," helping leaders connect with the divine and make their work meaningful.Prayer should be an integral part of everyday life, helping individuals notice the divine in daily routines.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Teach Us to Pray PodcastDenver Institute for Faith and WorkFuller Theological Seminary Doctor of MinistryDe Pree Center for LeadershipChurch Leadership InstituteRelated Episodes:44. Spiritual Formation and Lectio Divina, with Eric Nevins112. The Beatitudes and Spiritual Leadership, with Mark Scandrette216. Overcoming ‘Puny’ Spirituality, with Warren Brown and Brad StrawnClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger discuss the essential role of pastors and spiritual leaders in "standing in the gap," inspired by a profound quote from Amy Peeler. They explore how leaders can support their communities by being present in times of crisis, offering intercessory prayer, and providing emotional and spiritual accompaniment. Through personal stories and leadership insights, they highlight the importance of not letting others face challenges alone and the powerful impact of embodying a pastoral presence during tough decisions and anxious moments.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Amy Peeler in Ep 224, Leadership Through the Lens of Hebrews:"As a priest, as a pastor, we are called to stand in the gap for people. Right? That could be as simple as, we have the time and the resources to study God's word during the week so that, when the congregation comes in, we can share the fruit of that time that we've invested."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Ministry leaders stand in the gap for their congregations, embodying both authority and empathy.Pastors enrich their congregations by dedicating time to study God's word, offering spiritual insights in return.Effective leaders accompany their team through anxious and challenging times, providing support and reassurance.Spiritual leadership involves being present with people, especially in moments of crisis and decision-making.Leaders foster a sense of community by ensuring no one feels alone in their burdens and responsibilities.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.