“Taylor’s Version Pt 1: Gaylors” with Stephanie Burt

Are you ready to become a showgirl? Poet, scholar, and Swifty extraordinaire Stephanie Burt joins me to talk about Taylor Swift’s musical genius, queer fandom and relationship to femininity. There was simply too much to squeeze into one episode, so make sure to listen to part one first and hear all about the Gaylors, before switching to part two, to learn about Taylor's relationship to femininity, class and race. Stephanie will also tell you why she thought the “You Need To Calm Down” video was a big mistake…Follow Stephanie and myself at @notquitehydepark and @queerlitpodcast for even more content!  ReferencesStephanie Burt’s We Are Mermaids (Greywolf Press, 2022)Stephanie Burt’s Super Gay Poems (2025)Stephanie Burt’s Taylor’s Version: The Poetic and Musical Genius of Taylor Swift (Basic Books, 2025)Stephanie Burt’s “Prayer for Werewolves”Poetry UnboundJohn DonneKatherine PhilipsGeoffrey ChaucerWalt WhitmanCharlotte MewSarah RecordsHeavenlyTender TrapBlueboyElla DarlingMotownCarole KingDolly Parton“You Belong With Me”RedReputationMiss Americana (2020)LoverRachel Hartman’s Tess of the RoadGaylorismGaylors and Hetlors“When Emma Falls in Love”“All Too Well”Joe JonasTaylor LautnerJake Gyllenhaal“Back to December”John MayerThe Life of a Show GirlElizabeth TaylorKatharine HepburnOphelia HamletJulia SeranoFrozenMononormativityEvermore“Tis The Damn Season”The Taylor Swift Holiday Collection“Christmases When You Were Mine”CrassGrace PetrieTaylearning podcast“Clara Bow”Britney SpearsMiley Cyrus“You Need to Come Down”Adeem the ArtistJourney to FearlessLara Heimert@notquitehydeparkRachel Gold’s In the SilencesImogen Binnie’s NevadaX-Men Gold 30D.A. PowellTeam Dresch’s Captain My CaptainSlater KinneyHeartbreak HighSex EducationRachel Hartman’s Seraphina  Questions you should be able to respond to after listening:     How does Stephanie speak about the relationship between poetry, lyrics and music? Where does this become relevant in Taylor Swift’s work?     What does the term ‘Gaylor’ refer to and why are there so many of them?     We speak about sapphic forms in this episode. What makes a form sapphic for you?     What is feminophobia and why could being femme be read as giving up power? How does this relate to trans femininity?     What does Stephanie suggest about the representation of class in the “You Need To Calm Down” video?     Why does Stephanie stress that Taylor knows that she is white? How does Stephanie describe Taylor’s engagement with race and the music of Black women?     Does Taylor’s music speak to you? Why or why not?

Are you ready to become a showgirl? Poet, scholar, and Swifty extraordinaire Stephanie Burt joins me to talk about Taylor Swift’s musical genius, queer fandom and relationship to femininity. There was simply too much to squeeze into one episode, so make sure to listen to part one first and hear all about the Gaylors, before switching to part two, to learn about Taylor;s relationship to femininity, class and race. Stephanie will also tell you why she thought the “You Need To Calm Down” video was a big mistake…Follow Stephanie and myself at @notquitehydepark and @queerlitpodcast for even more content!  ReferencesStephanie Burt’s We Are Mermaids (Greywolf Press, 2022)Stephanie Burt’s Super Gay Poems (2025)Stephanie Burt’s Taylor’s Version: The Poetic and Musical Genius of Taylor Swift (Basic Books, 2025)Stephanie Burt’s “Prayer for Werewolves”Poetry UnboundJohn DonneKatherine PhilipsGeoffrey ChaucerWalt WhitmanCharlotte MewSarah RecordsHeavenlyTender TrapBlueboyElla DarlingMotownCarole KingDolly Parton“You Belong With Me”RedReputationMiss Americana (2020)LoverRachel Hartman’s Tess of the RoadGaylorismGaylors and Hetlors“When Emma Falls in Love”“All Too Well”Joe JonasTaylor LautnerJake Gyllenhaal“Back to December”John MayerThe Life of a Show GirlElizabeth TaylorKatharine HepburnOphelia HamletJulia SeranoFrozenMononormativityEvermore“Tis The Damn Season”The Taylor Swift Holiday Collection“Christmases When You Were Mine”CrassGrace PetrieTaylearning podcast“Clara Bow”Britney SpearsMiley Cyrus“You Need to Come Down”Adeem the ArtistJourney to FearlessLara Heimert@notquitehydeparkRachel Gold’s In the SilencesImogen Binnie’s NevadaX-Men Gold 30D.A. PowellTeam Dresch’s Captain My CaptainSlater KinneyHeartbreak HighSex EducationRachel Hartman’s Seraphina  Questions you should be able to respond to after listening:     How does Stephanie speak about the relationship between poetry, lyrics and music? Where does this become relevant in Taylor Swift’s work?     What does the term ‘Gaylor’ refer to and why are there so many of them?     We speak about sapphic forms in this episode. What makes a form sapphic for you?     What is feminophobia and why could being femme be read as giving up power? How does this relate to trans femininity?     What does Stephanie suggest about the representation of class in the “You Need To Calm Down” video?     Why does Stephanie stress that Taylor knows that she is white? How does Stephanie describe Taylor’s engagement with race and the music of Black women?     Does Taylor’s music speak to you? Why or why not?

Our favourite feminist killjoy is back! Sara Ahmed joins me to talk about her brand-new book No Is Not A Lonely Utterance: The Art and Activism of Complaining. In her first ever (how special are we) public conversation about the book, Sara speaks about becoming a feminist ear and a complaint collector, sharing stories of her own complaints as well as those shared with her in community. Explaining how the power of complaining lies in creativity and collectivity, Sara shows why saying no is a powerful queer method.  References:Sarah Ahmed’s No Is Not A Lonely Utterance (Allen Lane, 2025)Sarah Ahmed’s The Feminist Killjoy Handbook (Penguin, 2023)Sarah Ahmed’s Complaint! (Duke, 2021)Sarah Ahmed’s What’s the Use (Duke, 2019)Sarah Ahmed’s On Being Included: Racism and Diversity in Institutional Life (Duke, 2012)OnomatopoeiaJean PorcelliRace Relations Amendment ActCARD Complaint Against Racial DiscriminationKennetta Hammond Perry’s London is the Place for Me: Black Britons, Citizenship and the Politics of Race (2018) https://global.oup.com/academic/product/london-is-the-place-for-me-9780190909949?cc=gb&lang=en&Heather Love’s Feeling BackwardChelsea Watego’s “Always Bet On Black (Power)” (2021)https://meanjin.com.au/essays/always-bet-on-black-power/  Questions you should be able to respond to after listening:     What is a feminist ear? How might you become one?     We speak about the role of energy in complaining. Where can energy come from or disappear to? To quote Sara: ‘puff, puff’     How does Sara define institutional fatalism and why might it be an illusion?     What makes complaint a queer method?     This is a question from Sara’s book: What is the first complaint you remember making? How do you feel about it now?

How many times have you watched the sweaty lesbian fever dream that is Love Lies Bleeding? As you might be able to guess from this episode, Michelle Devereaux and I have stopped counting. Michelle is a feminist film-philosophy expert who joins me to talk about Rose Glass’s super queer neo noir, the interplay of genre conventions and gender dynamics, and all the fun intertexts and easter eggs that we found in Love Lies Bleeding. Whether you’re into bodybuilding and gender transgression or lesbian romance against all odds, this episode is for you.  ReferencesRose Glass’ Love Lies Bleeding (2024)Devereaux, Michelle. "Suspicious Minds and Dead Bodies: Queer Romance and Skepticism in Rose Glass’s Love Lies Bleeding." Film Quarterly 78.2 (2024): 24-32.Devereaux, Michelle. The Stillness of Solitude: Romanticism and Contemporary American Independent Film. Edinburgh University Press, 2019.Devereaux, Michelle.“‘A lot of people are creative’: Process, Perfectionism and the Everyday Sublime in Kelly Reichardt’s Showing Up and First Cow”. Kim Wilkins and Bruce Isaacs, eds. A24: Culture, Aesthetics, Identity. Edinburgh University Press, 2026 (expected).Devereaux, Michelle.“Inherited Trauma, Postcolonial Scepticism and the Harmony of Voice in Jennifer Kent’s The Nightingale”. Film-Philosophy and Australian Cinema. Saige Walton and Matilda Mroz, eds. Edinburgh University Press, 2026 (expected).Devereaux, Michelle and Lash, Dominic (eds.). Love, Desire and Stanley Cavell. London: Routledge, 2026 (expected).MAI: Feminism and Visual Culture: www.maifeminism.comRussian DollSofia CoppolaCavell, Stanley. Pursuits of Happiness: The Hollywood Comedy of Remarriage. Harvard University Press, 1981.Cavell, Stanley. Contesting Tears: The Hollywood Melodrama of the Unknown Woman. Harvard University Press, 1996.Comedies of RemarriageScrewball ComedyOut and WildSleater-KinneyBristol Butch BarLindner, Katharina. Film Bodies: Queer Feminist Encounters with Gender and Sexuality in Cinema. Bloomsbury Academic, 2017.Bound (1996)The Incredible HulkKristen Stewart TwilightPumping Iron II: The Women (1985)Bev Francis David Lynch’s Mulholland Drive (2001) and Lost Highway (1997)Winkie’s DinerLauren Berlant’s epistemic frenzyTeresa de Lauretis [email protected]: @michelleldevereauxKelly Reichardt’s Showing Up (2022)Michelle WilliamsDerek Jarman’s Caravaggio (1996)Tilda SwintonSean Bean  Questions you should be able to respond to after listening:1.      What is Love Lies Bleeding about and why does Michelle suggest it might be more about gender than about sexuality?2.      How does Michelle describe Lindner’s ‘space of transgender potential’? Can you think of an example for this?3.      Which genres does Michelle mention to discuss and describe Love Lies Bleeding? How are these genres queered in the film?4.      What role does the setting play in the film? How might this relate to the ‘space of transgender potential’?5.      What is your favourite lesbian and/or trans film and why?

If you can’t find me, I’m probably still browsing shelves of queer joy at Lighthouse, Edinburgh’s superb radical bookshop. The delightful owner Mairi Oliver took some time to chat with me about the long history of radical and queer bookshops that have come before and exist alongside this absolute gem of a queer space. We speak about queer spaces changing hands and transforming, rather than disappearing, about the magic of queer and trans book events, and about why radical booksellers are so important for local community.  References:Word PowerElaine HenryConstant Reader BookshopLavender MenaceWest & WildeSigrid NielsonBob Orr June Thomas’s A Place of One’s OwnJane Cholmeley’s A Bookshop of One’s OwnSilver Moon BookshopJames Ley’s Love Song To Lavender MenaceNaomi KleinSara AhmedRadical Book FairCategory is Books (Glasgow)Gay’s The Word (London)Housmans (London)Five Leaves (Nottingham)Alliance of Radical Booksellers https://www.radicalbooksellers.co.uk/Bread and Roses AwardJake Hall’s Shoulder to Shoulder: A Queer History of Solidarity, Coalition and ChaosN.S. Nuseibeh’s Namesake  Questions you should be able to respond to after listening:     Mairi speaks about how Lighthouse builds on a lineage of queer spaces. How do you feel about queer spaces transforming versus disappearing?     In this context, we also speak about the higher expectations for queer spaces. Have you experienced this? Do you think queer spaces should be held to a higher standard? What is the effect of this?     When we speak about the relationship between readers, booksellers and authors, Mairi makes some interesting points about how the role of writers is changing. What struck you as particularly important here?     Mairi ends the episode with a note on the urgency with which we need to address current political discussions. How can books and bookshops help us do this?

What makes Hong Kong queer? Alvin K. Wong joins me to speak about how queer and decolonial thought can help us better understand Hong Kong and its relation to the Sinophone world, to Eurocentric queer theory, and to global protest culture. Alvin speaks about queer and trans photography, films and novels from Hong Kong and sprinkles in some excellent theory reading recommendations. Listen now to learn more about Hong Kong and why it is such a frequent site of (unruly) comparison.  References:Wong, Alvin. Unruly Comparison: Queerness, Hong Kong, and the Sinophone (Duke UP, 2025)Wong, Alvin. “Transgenderism as a Heuristic Device: On the Cross-historical and Transnational Adaptations of the Legend of the White Snake,” in Transgender China, ed. Howard Chiang (New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2012), 127-158.https://complit.hku.hk/index.php/faculty/alvin-wong/[email protected] for the Study of Globalization and CulturesSociety of Sinophone StudiesMichel FoucaultJudith ButlerRey ChowAckbar AbbasUmbrella Movement in 2014Milton FriedmanRoderick FergusonJosé Esteban MuñozQueer of colour critiqueGayatri Gopinath’s Impossible Desires (Duke UP, 2005) and Unruly Visions (Duke UP, 2018)Emily Apter’s The Translation Zone (Princeton UP, 2006)Nelson Tang Chak-man’s Where Are You Going? Where Have You Been? (2019-20)Ann StolerJacques DerridaAnjali ArondekarWong Bik-wan’s Lienü tu 烈女圖 (Portraits of martyred women, 1999)Ma Ka Fai’s Long tou feng wei 龍頭鳳尾 (Once Upon A Time in Hong Kong, 2016)Lisa LoweScudMak Yan Yan’s Butterfly Jun Li’s Tracey (2018)W v. Registrar of MarriagesA Woman is A WomanMimi WongChen Ran’s A Private Life  Questions you should be able to respond to after listening:     What happened on 1 July 1997? Why was 2019 a central year in Hong Kong’s history?     Why is Hong Kong such a frequent site of comparison? What makes Hong Kong (seem) exceptional?     What does Alvin observe about Eurocentrism in queer studies? Which other power dynamics does he put this in relation with?     Alvin speaks about juxtaposing different types of texts. What does he juxtapose and why?     Several of Alvin’s reading recommendations have been published in translation. How often do you read translated texts?  

You know I love a queer bookshop and this Glaswegian dream of a queer space is absolutely delightful. Bug and Fin started Category is Books in 2018 to create the kind of space they were craving in their own neighbourhood. As the name promises, Category is Books has some exquisite shelving categories: from ‘Dyke Aching’ to ‘Trans Lit’ to the extensive poetry and theory sections, Bug and Fin show off their excellent taste on their shelves. In the recording, you can hear just how popular the shop is and how many people from near and far love to stop by for a browse and a chat. I’m telling you: this is a real treasure.  References:Dr Eamon McCarthy (new favourtite person) Scottish Graduate School for Arts and Humanitieshttps://www.sgsah.ac.uk/Section 28Kelly GardinerAdrian’s BarPluto Q Community Reading Roomhttps://www.plutoq.com/Hazel Jane Plante’s Little Blue EncyclopediaSam Szabo’s Enlightened Transexual ComixShola von Reinhold’s Lote  Questions you should be able to respond to after listening:     Why do we need specialist bookshops? Why did Bug and Fin want to open one?     Why do Bug and Fin mention Section 28? Please look this term up if you are not familiar.     What is your favourite category, section or genre in a bookshop?     Why should you check Category is Books’ opening times before you go on your own queer pilgrimage there?  

What do transitions have to do with the nation state? More than you think! Ava Kim joins me to speak about how conceptions of gender are deeply (and problematically) entwined with the nation. Ava speaks about powerful examples of transition narratives from Chile, Vietnam and Argentina to illustrate this and gives us a sneak peek into her forthcoming book on trans genre.  References:Ava Kim’s Still / Life: Trans Genre and the Politics of Anti-Development (forthcoming)Ava Kim’s “The Future is Child’s Play” GLQ (2025)Davy KnittleMellon FoundationChristoph HanssmannStem the Tide: Trans Liberation in an Age of FascismTravestiNyke SlawikLucía Puenzo’s XXY (2007)Marlene WayarMauro Cabral GrinspanWinnicott’s space of playPaz ErrázurizGina Apostol’s InsurectoJessica Hagedorn’s Dream Jungle and DogeatersTrans subterfugeBalangigaSebastián Lelio’s A Fantastic Woman/ Una Mujer Fantástica  Questions you should be able to respond to after listening:     Are you familiar with the term travesti? Please look it up and find a helpful definition.     Which forms of transition does Ava talk about? How do they relate to one another?     In how far is transition a narrative form? What does this have to do with the nation as a form?     How does Ava define trans subterfuge?     What are some of the connections between nation and gender Ava and I speak about? Can you think of others? Have you ever been affected by any of them?

Coming to you live from the Spoken Word stage at Out and Wild, the UK’s biggest festival for lesbian, bi, trans and queer women and those who are non-binary! This conversation with the delightful Leilah King has everything you could hope for: laughing, rhyming, swooning, and a whole lot of poetry reading. Tune in to hear Leilah speak about gender nonconformity in football, her journey as a neurodivergent performance poet, and how being half-Iranian affects her experience as a queer woman.CW: mental health, manic state, gendered violence  References:Midnight Picnics in Tehran (2019)We Are Hungry for Androgyny (2023)Polari PressMary OliverSam KerrAudre Lorde’s ZamiTravis AlabanzaJohn Steinbeck’s East of EdenThe Grapes of WrathCharles BukowskiIvan Coyote’s The Tomboy Survival GuideJames Baldwin’s Giovanni’s RoomJohn BetjemanPhilip LarkinSoft ButchTime of the MonthGay on Wye  Questions you should be able to respond to after listening:     Leilah reflects on being a writer as well as a performer. How does performance affect her writing?     What was Leilah’s open mic night called and why did she set it up?     Who are some of the writers that have inspired Leilah? Who inspires you?     Leilah speaks about her intersecting experiences of being queer, neurodivergent and half-Iranian. How does your queerness relate to other parts of your identity?  

Come along on this deep dive into Alison Bechdel’s new autofictional comic novel Spent, that will give you everything from Edward Gorey Easter eggs to Harriet the Spy content. Alison teaches me things about myself (I’m a bottom-up thinker. Who knew!) and reflects on what Alison, the character, learns from finally meeting the much beloved Dykes to Watch Out For on the page. Whether you are a fan of goats, wood chopping, reality TV or Virginia Woolf – this episode has something for every kind of anti-capitalist dyke.  References:Alison Bechel’s The Secret to Superhuman StrengthAlison Bechel’s Fun HomeAlison Bechel’s Dykes to Watch Out ForCarmen Maria MachadoKarl Marx’s Das KapitalThe Guilty Feminist podcastQueer EyeTidying Up with Marie KondoVirginia Woolf’s To the LighthouseNicole CoenenGrant Wood’s American GothicEdward Gorey’s The Unstrung HarpThe Gashlycrumb Tinies This Queer Book Saved My LifeJonathan CapeFoyleshttps://www.foyles.co.uk/events/cape-graphic-novels-mini-conAnna Trench’s FlorrieLouise Fitzhugh’s Harriet the Spy  Questions you should be able to respond to:     What are some of Alison Bechdel’s most well-known texts?     How does Alison reflect on intergenerational queer community?     In a lesbian version of Queer Eye, what would the five lesbians’ areas of expertise be?     If you could fictionalise a detail of your life, what would you invent for yourself?