211. Understanding Programmatic Sustainability with Brian O'Kelley

AI can give programmatic teams time back. What should they do with it? Hélène Parker sits down with Anjlee Majmudar, VP, Programmatic Media at Level Agency, to explore how automation is changing campaign management, team development, and the skills that matter in a programmatic career. Anjlee shares why she wants traders to step out of the spreadsheet and bring their campaign knowledge into more strategic, client-facing conversations. She explains how time saved on QA and reporting can go toward thinking, building relationships, and making better decisions. But saving time does not replace learning the fundamentals. The two discuss why traders still need to understand campaign logic, how manual experience helps people guide AI, and why Anjlee looks for curiosity, grit, and resilience when hiring. They also unpack what makes an agency partner useful: understand the problem, be honest about your capabilities, and come with a pilot before a long contract. Anjlee closes with a reminder that you do not need every answer to take the next useful step. If you lead a programmatic team, work in ad ops, or want to grow beyond campaign execution, this conversation offers practical ways to rethink your role in the AI era. ABOUT US I'm the person programmatic traders reach out to when they want to become more confident, efficient, and effective, from hands-on DSP activation to smarter optimization. I'm also the person media and ad-tech partners call when they want to better understand those buyers, strengthen their positioning, build deeper partnerships, and grow revenue. MEET OUR GUEST Anjlee Majmudar — VP, Programmatic Media, Level Agency Anjlee has spent more than 15 years in programmatic advertising, with experience spanning campaign management, ad operations, publishers, technology companies, consulting, and independent agencies. In this episode, she shares how she approaches team development, training, client delivery, and partnerships as AI changes the work. 📎 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anjlee 🌐 Level Agency: https://www.level.agency/ MEET THE TEAM Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 https://heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/ LEARN PROGRAMMATIC For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/ FOLLOW US 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest #ProgrammaticDigest #ProgrammaticAdvertising #AI

🎧 Summary: Traders, when was the last time your creative team saw the same campaign report you did? Recorded live at Programmatic I/O, this conversation brings Hélène Parker together with Mike Toney, Global Creative Director of Custom Programs at Foundry, to explore what happens when paid media and creative teams actually share what they know. Mike explains how audience insights, interviews, and heat mapping help his team create experiences that resonate. Hélène reflects on optimizing campaigns by the numbers without always giving the creative itself enough attention, and the two unpack why fragmented reporting can leave partners without the information they need to improve. They also discuss how to move creative feedback beyond "I don't like it," use audience evidence to explain design choices, and treat creative teams as partners in campaign performance. The conversation closes with Mike's approach to allyship: proactively making room for women, naming the person behind an idea, and making sure credit follows the work. If you work in programmatic trading, ad ops, paid media, or creative, this episode will help you rethink the information you share and the people you bring into the conversation. 🧠 About Us: I'm the person programmatic traders reach out to when they want to become more confident, efficient, and effective, from hands-on DSP activation to smarter optimization. I'm also the person media and ad-tech partners call when they want to better understand those buyers, strengthen their positioning, build deeper partnerships, and grow revenue. 👤 Meet Our Guest: Mike Toney — Global Creative Director of Custom Programs, Foundry Mike leads custom creative programs at Foundry, working with his team to develop websites, interactive ebooks, ads, and other brand experiences. In this conversation, he shares how creative teams can use audience research and campaign insights to make more informed design decisions, and why collaboration with media buyers matters. 💻 Meet The Team: Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 https://heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/ 🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/ 📲 Follow Us: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest

🎧 Summary: Knowing how to optimize a campaign is one skill. Explaining what it means to a CMO is another. In this episode of The Trader's Corner, our special Programmatic Digest series highlighting fellow programmatic ninjas and their everyday challenges, wins, and lessons, Hélène Parker catches up with Dennis Paredes of WMX, recorded at Programmatic I/O. Dennis shares how he approaches agency work through problem-solving, starting with understanding what clients need and translating campaign details into clear conversations with leadership. They also discuss helping junior employees build strong media fundamentals, introducing AI with privacy guardrails, and digging deeper into inventory quality and campaign data. Plus, Dennis shares the mindset shift that helped him grow: recognizing that thinking you know everything can stop you from learning. In this episode: Why listening to clients comes before choosing a solution. Translating tactical campaign details into business conversations. Using enterprise AI tools while protecting client information. Why media basics still matter when hiring and training. Understanding the inventory you're buying and where performance comes from. How mentorship and openness to feedback support career growth.     🧠 About Us: I'm the person programmatic traders reach out to when they want to become more confident, efficient, and effective, from hands-on DSP activation to smarter optimization.  I'm also the person media and ad-tech partners call when they want to better understand those buyers, strengthen their positioning, build deeper partnerships, and grow revenue. www.heleneparker.com      👤 Meet Our Guest: Dennis Paredes – Director of Performance Marketing – WMX Dennis Paredes works at WMX, an agency based in Miami. His work involves understanding client needs, digging into campaign data, and communicating media decisions to stakeholders. In this conversation, he shares his perspective on team development, responsible AI adoption, and continuous learning. 📎 Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/publicwizard/  Check out: https://www.wearewmx.com/      💻 Meet The Team: Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/     🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/     📲 Follow Us: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest  

🎧 Summary: What does a programmatic trader's day look like when every platform has a new AI solution, your team needs hands-on guidance, and your clients operate in a highly regulated industry? Welcome to the first episode of The Trader's Corner, a special Programmatic Digest series spotlighting fellow programmatic ninjas and the everyday challenges, wins, and lessons that shape their work. In this episode of Trader's Corner, recorded at Programmatic I/O, Hélène Parker sits down with Kristin BelleFountaine, a programmatic channel manager who leads a team of five specialists. Their conversation explores the daily work behind campaign activation, troubleshooting, optimization, and helping traders keep pace with change. Kristin shares how her team approaches new AI tools while navigating pharma clients' privacy requirements and highly specific audiences. She also explains what vendors should understand before approaching an agency team: client needs come first, and evaluating a proposal takes time. Plus, Kristin and Hélène share practical ways they use AI to manage overflowing inboxes and stay informed without reading every industry newsletter. In this episode: Supporting a trading team while staying hands-on in the platforms. Keeping traders up to speed as DSPs introduce new AI capabilities. Why foundational optimization skills still matter. How pharma audience needs and privacy concerns shape partner evaluations. What vendors can do to make conversations more useful for agency teams. Using AI for email management and relevant industry news recaps. Staying open to a career path you couldn't have planned. A takeaway for your next workday: Start with a task that takes time away from meaningful work. Explore how AI could help, while following your organization's rules for client and audience data. Need backup? Have a reporting headache, a campaign question, or something you don't feel comfortable asking in the office? Reach out to Hélène. Your questions help shape practical, free educational content for the programmatic community.     🧠 About Us: I'm the person programmatic traders reach out to when they want to become more confident, efficient, and effective, from hands-on DSP activation to smarter optimization.  I'm also the person media and ad-tech partners call when they want to better understand those buyers, strengthen their positioning, build deeper partnerships, and grow revenue. www.heleneparker.com      👤 Meet Our Guest: Kristin Bellefontaine – Channel Manager, Programmatic – Butler/Till  Kristin is a programmatic channel manager who leads a team of five programmatic specialists, supporting campaign activation, troubleshooting, optimization, and reporting. Her work includes pharma advertising, where audience needs and privacy requirements shape campaign decisions. She started her career in linear TV and radio before finding her passion for programmatic, and today helps her team navigate new AI tools while staying hands-on in the platforms. 📎 Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-bellefontaine-3b82a8b3/  Check out: https://butlertill.com/      💻 Meet The Team: Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/     🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/     📲 Follow Us: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest  

🎧 Summary: When you select location targeting in your DSP, do you know what data you're actually using? In this episode of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, Hélène Parker sits down with Charlie Simon, Global VP for Private Advertising at RTB House, to unpack the data behind location targeting and the questions media buyers should ask before using it. Charlie discusses how privacy rules are changing, why consumer consent may not answer every question, and why being near a store doesn't necessarily mean someone intends to buy. They also explore a fashion retailer example that challenges assumptions about location data and in-store results. What you'll learn How broad geographic targeting differs from precise location data. Where sensitive data can enter a campaign's setup. Why traders, ad ops, and client service teams need clearer answers from data partners. Why a store visit or nearby device is a weak signal of purchase intent. How contextual signals and incrementality testing can help buyers evaluate performance. One question to bring to your next partner conversation "Do you handle sensitive categories of data or sensitive personal information?" Ask what data powers the targeting, where it comes from, and how your partner handles sensitive information. Resources mentioned RTB House, Network Advertising Initiative (NAI), Transparency and Consent Framework (TCF), GDPR, CCPA, and the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).     🧠 About Us: I'm the person programmatic traders reach out to when they want to become more confident, efficient, and effective, from hands-on DSP activation to smarter optimization.  I'm also the person media and ad-tech partners call when they want to better understand those buyers, strengthen their positioning, build deeper partnerships, and grow revenue. PROGRAMMATIC NINJAS, NEED BACKUP? ☐ Need extra hands to manage campaigns? ☐ Spending too much time on campaign setup, checks or reporting? ☐ Curious about ChatGPT audiences intent? Want to reach them beyond the chat? ☐ Want a clearer picture of the ad inventory you're buying? Like for real? SAID YES TO ANY? LET'S TALK! [email protected]   ⏱ Timestamps: 00:00: Meet Charlie Simon and introduce the conversation. 02:00: Charlie's background in privacy, identity, and advertising. 05:00: What sits behind location targeting in a DSP? 07:00: Consent, sensitive data, and changing privacy rules. 10:00: US and European privacy perspectives. 13:00: Questions to ask your location data partners. 16:00: Precise geolocation and how data enters the ad stack. 19:00: Geofencing, intent, and broader targeting options. 22:00: A fashion retailer's location data and incrementality test. 25:00: Charlie's closing advice: "Too much data is just too much data."     👤 Meet Our Guest: Charlie Simon – Global Vice President – RTB House  Charlie Simon is Global Vice President for Private Advertising at RTB House, where he leads strategic initiatives around privacy, identity, and regulatory affairs. His experience includes industry oversight at the NAI, helping develop Europe's Transparency and Consent Framework, supporting Google's CCPA preparations while at MediaMath, and working on privacy and data governance platforms at Nike. 📎 Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charless1 Company website: https://www.rtbhouse.com/       💻 Meet The Team: Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 www.heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/     🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/     📲 Follow Us: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest  

Let's first highlight some "not so fun facts" about the topic covered in this episode, according to Anne Coghlan, COO of Scope3 in Digiday.  Programmatic advertising creates 100,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide every month in the United States, which is equivalent to burning about 11.2 million gallons of gas.  Serving 1,000 digital ad impressions uses the same amount of energy as doing a load of laundry in a washing machine — excluding the dryer — which produces a global average of 514.8 grams of CO2. Brian O'Kelley co-founder and CEO joins the programmatic meetup, a weekly community call to discuss the importance of sustainability and how to take actions from negotiating supply partnership down to optimizing site lists in your programmatic ad campaigns. Our favorite quote in this interview can be summarized down to " Don't buy crap!"   Take a listen to this hour long interview where the community got to hear first hand what sustainability is and how to take action; asking questions to Brian under the outstanding leadership of our co-hosts Manuela Cortes and Carlos Villanueva.  This episode is Repurposed because it is just so darn good! About Us The Programmatic Digest Podcast makes programmatic advertising, ad tech, and the future of digital media easier to understand. Hosted by Hélène Parker, the show brings together operators, traders, founders, and industry leaders for practical conversations about the technology, strategy, and people shaping our industry. Through Hélène Parker Consulting, we help media and ad-tech companies grow revenue while building stronger programmatic teams through sales growth, go-to-market strategy, workshops, consulting, and training. Access the programmatic training library: https://www.heleneparker.com/library Timestamp 00:00:20 - What do laundry and adtech have in common?   00:01:40 - At the beginning there were Ad Networks…  00:03:46 - Then there was an SSP and MySpace 00:06:15 - AdTech happens in Data centres, not in the cloud 00:08:25 - Why isn't programmatic more sustainable after 20 years?  00:10:01 - The challenges of programmatic are bigger than sustainability and the lightbulb moment 00:12:40 - Turning off Fraud and the impact on publisher's revenue 00:16:35 - BOK on Ads https://bokonads.com/  00:18:54 - PreBid vs. SPO 00:22:23 - Brian's POV on e-waste on the OTT/CTV topic 00:25:40 - What responsibilities Brands have to Fraud?  00:31:40 - Introducing Climate Shield: Don't' Buy Crap 00:35:40 - Don't allow resellers! A message for Pubs 00:23:40 - Is there one path more carbon efficient than the other?  00:40:10 - How Hélène take actions and apply Brian's Wisdom for programmatic buyers 00:45:34 - Ongoing Education, Check out Greenscape from BOKonads 00:48:10 - Lazy Loading on Publishers  00:53:10 - The Inconvenient Truth  Guest Information: Brian O'Kelley LinkedIn | BOKonAds Scope3 | Resources  Meet the Co-Host: Manuela Cortes LinkedIn    Carlos Villanueva LinkedIn   About Us: Hélène Parker Consulting LLC - We are actively accepting clients Website | LinkedIn | The Reach & Frequency Course Programmatic Digest - Youtube | LinkedIn | Instagram Get this directly in your inbox weekly including more gems!  Let's keep in touch: Sign up to receive our weekly newsletter here: www.heleneparker.com/newsletter   Join our next training program by signing up to our waitlist below: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/  

Gulshan started as a nurse and realised that her passion was outside of the medical field.  She knew she wanted to work in Marketing but did not know where to start. Luckily, her grad school professor recommended that she looked into programmatic and that is how she "fell" into the programmatic industry where she is now working for an ad agency who specialise in pharma and healthcare brands. Gulshan is such an inspiration for standing up for herself and pursuing something she wanted to and not being afraid to start "again" and take risk learning something new. It's never too late to pivot into a new  career and there's no expiration or deadline to your journey and growth.  This episode is Repurposed because it is just so darn good!   About Us The Programmatic Digest Podcast makes programmatic advertising, ad tech, and the future of digital media easier to understand. Hosted by Hélène Parker, the show brings together operators, traders, founders, and industry leaders for practical conversations about the technology, strategy, and people shaping our industry. Through Hélène Parker Consulting, we help media and ad-tech companies grow revenue while building stronger programmatic teams through sales growth, go-to-market strategy, workshops, consulting, and training. Access the programmatic training library: https://www.heleneparker.com/library Timestamps 00:01:01 - Who is Gulshan Fazal 00:05:44 - How Gulshan got into programmatic 00:07:11 - Education and Activation at Parker Consulting 00:10:33 - Gulshan's Soul Searching Experience 00:12:53 - Explaining what Gulshan does to a 5 years old 00:15:23 - Transferable Skill Set 00:18:24 - Gulshan's Best Practices 00:20:32 - Running a creative message in healthcare 00:23:18 - Fun fact about Gulshan 00:28:32 - Words of Wisdom from Gulshan 00:20:44 - Why should anybody join the program 00:22:20 - Fun Fact about Gulshan 00:23:40 - Words of Wisdom from Gulshan Guest Information: Gulshan Fazal LinkedIn | Instagram Meet Our Team: Hélène Parker - Chief Programmatic Coach Website | LinkedIn | Twitter | The Reach & Frequency Course Programmatic Digest - Youtube | LinkedIn | Instagram Let's keep in touch: Sign up to receive our weekly newsletter here: www.heleneparker.com/newsletter  

In Episode 209 of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, Hélène Parker sits down with Avani Oswal, founder of Catalyst, to explore what retail and ecommerce leaders need to know as AI reshapes discovery, technology decisions, and customer experiences. Avani shares how her career moved from finance and consulting at EY to strategy at Macy's, operational roles across ecommerce brands including IPSY, and eventually building Catalyst, a community that connects retail operators with emerging technology companies. She explains why understanding the numbers, listening closely to operators, and building real relationships are essential when evaluating technology. The conversation examines the shift from SEO to answer engine optimization, or AEO. Avani explains how brands can improve their visibility inside AI-generated answers by combining structured product data with insights from ecommerce, creative, data, and paid media teams. She also breaks down the build-versus-buy decision for SaaS tools, including the factors teams often overlook: speed, resources, customization, ownership, and ongoing maintenance. Hélène and Avani close with a look toward 2027 and the promise of true one-to-one personalization across websites, merchandising, email, text, CRM, and marketing. Avani's final reminder is simple: believe in yourself, trust the experience you already have, and take the bet on yourself. About Us The Programmatic Digest Podcast makes programmatic advertising, ad tech, and the future of digital media easier to understand. Hosted by Hélène Parker, the show brings together operators, traders, founders, and industry leaders for practical conversations about the technology, strategy, and people shaping our industry. Through Hélène Parker Consulting, we help media and ad-tech companies grow revenue while building stronger programmatic teams through sales growth, go-to-market strategy, workshops, consulting, and training. Access the programmatic training library: https://www.heleneparker.com/library Timestamps • [00:00] - Welcome and introduction to Avani Oswal • [01:12] - From EY and Wharton to Macy's, IPSY, and ecommerce operations • [02:50] - Why Avani created Catalyst and began connecting brands with tech companies • [04:07] - Building value through community, trust, and relationships • [05:30] - Using finance and business outcomes to evaluate technology • [06:39] - Cutting through AI hype and finding tools that move the numbers • [08:02] - Why in-person relationships still matter in a digital industry • [09:39] - The biggest changes in ecommerce and SaaS over the past year • [10:44] - From AI-first companies to answer engine optimization • [12:19] - How brand, creative, ecommerce, data, and paid teams can collaborate on AEO • [15:30] - What a PDP is and how product data can become more useful to LLMs • [16:07] - SaaS versus building in-house: the core decision factors • [17:40] - The maintenance cost companies forget after building a tool • [18:45] - What large and small brands are choosing today • [20:01] - The programmatic comparison: white-label support versus hiring in-house • [20:49] - Avani's 2027 prediction for agentic, one-to-one personalization • [23:01] - Avani's advice: believe in yourself and take the bet • [24:54] - How to connect with Avani and closing remarks Meet Our Guest Avani Oswal – Founder of Catalyst Avani Oswal works at the intersection of AI, ecommerce, retail, and emerging technology. Her background includes finance and consulting at EY, an MBA from Wharton, strategy work at Macy's, and ecommerce and operational roles across consumer brands, including IPSY. As the founder of Catalyst, Avani connects retail and ecommerce leaders with one another and with technology companies. She helps operators evaluate emerging solutions, helps founders understand real industry needs, and creates communities where leaders can exchange practical insights. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/avanioswal/ Catalyst: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thecatalystclub/ Meet The Team Hélène Parker – Host of the Programmatic Digest Podcast Website: https://heleneparker.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/ Learn Programmatic Programmatic Training Library: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Join the Workshop Waitlist: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/ Follow Us LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest  

Programmatic advertising gives us more data, automation, and targeting options than ever. But behind every impression, click, and conversion is a real person whose circumstances, attention, and needs can change. In this episode of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, Hélène Parker speaks with Carole Lawson, founding partner of Marketstorm, about the relationship between data, technology, AI, and human behavior. Carole shares how her experience in technology, government innovation, behavioral economics, and data science led her into programmatic advertising. She also explains why traders should be careful about overcontrolling campaigns based only on what appears logical inside a DSP. One powerful example involves a luxury bottle of wine purchased at 4 a.m. after the buyer saw an ad while playing Solitaire in Oklahoma. A trader might have excluded that time, location, or environment. The technology, however, recognized that it was the right moment for that specific person. This conversation explores how programmatic professionals can combine human judgment with AI, select stronger audience signals, recognize audience fatigue, and measure performance beyond the last click. Key takeaway The goal is not to choose between human judgment and AI. The goal is to understand what each does best. Programmatic professionals provide strategy, context, client knowledge, and critical thinking. AI and machine learning can identify behavioral patterns and opportunities that a person may not see. Strong performance happens when those capabilities work together.   Check out the interview on YouTube!      🧠 About Us: We are Helene Parker Consulting, where programmatic hands on keys buying meet Revenue Growth. We're expanding our work with Independent agencies, media and ad-tech companies through revenue growth, go-to-market support, pipeline development, and sales enablement. We also offer practical programmatic workshops and customized training for teams that want to strengthen their skills, with a trader/buyer lens. Are you or anyone in your network looking for support? Email us [email protected] Past workshops, paid gems, and every new recording + resource added as we go. This library isn't a one-time thing, it's the full vault plus all future trainings, recordings, and guides   Access it here: https://www.heleneparker.com/library     ⏱ Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and welcome 00:41 Carole Lawson's career journey 01:27 Moving from technology into data and behavioral economics 03:28 How Marketstorm was created 05:45 "The ad may not have changed, but the person did" 07:23 Remembering the human behind programmatic data 08:25 The unexpected 4 a.m. luxury-wine conversion 09:59 Why excluding overnight hours can hurt performance 11:16 Campaign budget and return 11:34 Focused audiences and negative targeting 13:09 Understanding signals inside custom algorithms 13:54 Researching customers and creating custom audiences 15:17 Primary versus secondary conversions 16:13 Recognizing when an audience becomes stale 17:06 Questions to ask an audience-data partner 18:58 Ordinary browsing versus emerging intent 21:28 Does more precise targeting cost more? 22:59 Intent, influence, demand capture, and attribution 25:00 AI assistants as a new form of search 26:02 Making websites and content readable by AI 27:42 Career advice for programmatic professionals 28:18 Programmatic's role in the marketing ecosystem 29:38 Closing thoughts 29:43 Where to follow Carole's work       👤 Meet Our Guests: Carolee Lawson - Founding Partner, Chief Innovation Officer, MarketStorm Carole Lawson is a data scientist and founding partner of Marketstorm. For the past 20 years, her work has focused on behavioral economics and the relationship between people and technology, including how human behavior influences technology and how technology shapes human behavior. Before founding Marketstorm, Carole worked in technology for the State of California, where she led a major redesign of the state's websites. She also chaired the Governor's Innovation Council, collaborating with emerging technology companies and exploring how data and technology could improve the delivery of government services. Carole later brought her experience in data, human behavior, and technology into programmatic advertising. Today, she helps organizations use audience intelligence, custom algorithms, and behavioral signals to reach the right people and improve marketing outcomes. Subscribe to her Substack: https://www.thinkwithmarketstorm.com Website: https://marketstorm.ai/  📎 Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroleslawson/        💻 Meet The Team: Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/     🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/     📲 Follow Us: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest  

In this podcast episode, Dr. Cecilia Dones and Iesha White discuss the complex evolution of artificial intelligence within the marketing and advertising industries.  They explore the shift of AI becoming a "middle layer" between brands and consumers, highlighting how automated systems can influence purchasing decisions using unverified information.  These outstanding ladies distinguish between closed and open AI systems, warning that proprietary models often lack transparency and can lead to brand safety issues like hallucinations or data poisoning.  They emphasize that while AI offers efficiency, brands must prioritize human judgment, organic engagement, and authentic connections to maintain their reputation. Ultimately, the conversation serves as a call for marketers to implement stronger governance and return to fundamental marketing principles to navigate an increasingly automated landscape. Here are four topics we focused on: The AI "Middle Layer": AI is increasingly acting as an unapproved intermediary between brands and consumers. AI systems now generate answers, ad creative, and buying decisions using unverified information that brands did not write or approve. The Trap of Closed Systems: Major ad networks heavily push automated, "closed" AI tools (like Google's PMAX and Meta's Advantage+) to recoup their massive infrastructure investments. This leaves brands with an "illusion of choice" and little-to-no technical ability to trace, audit, or correct costly AI hallucinations. SEO Poisoning & Sabotage: Closed systems are highly vulnerable to model manipulation. A Cornell study showed it takes as few as 13 words on Reddit to completely alter Google's AI Overviews. This enables black-hat corporate espionage where bad actors can programmatically poison what LLMs say about a competitor. Defense & Adaptation: Brands must collectively lobby agencies and industry groups to demand LLM transparency. Meanwhile, marketers should prioritize core organic SEO and human-driven curation, while consumers are increasingly pushing back against digital clutter by seeking offline, real-world connections ("touch grass")   Check out the interview on YouTube!      🧠 About Us: We are Helene Parker Consulting, where programmatic hands on keys buying meet Revenue Growth. We're expanding our work with Independent agencies, media and ad-tech companies through revenue growth, go-to-market support, pipeline development, and sales enablement. We also offer practical programmatic workshops and customized training for teams that want to strengthen their skills, with a trader/buyer lens. Are you or anyone in your network looking for support? Email us [email protected] Past workshops, paid gems, and every new recording + resource added as we go. This library isn't a one-time thing, it's the full vault plus all future trainings, recordings, and guides   Access it here: https://www.heleneparker.com/library     ⏱ Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and welcome 01:06 Guest introductions: Dr. Cecilia Dones and Aisha White 02:15 Why AI is becoming the middle layer between brands and consumers 04:27 Current AI developments and the importance of watching patterns 07:01 Open versus closed AI systems explained 10:13 AI errors and loss of control in digital advertising 13:00 Using AI automation without surrendering control 16:02 Why platforms are pushing advertisers toward AI 17:50 AI agents and advertising to machines 19:18 What an AI agent is and how it works 21:02 AI agents, identity, and consumer privacy 22:56 Will marketers need separate strategies for humans and AI agents? 23:48 Platforms restricting outside AI agents 25:35 Walled gardens and machine-to-machine advertising 28:01 AI hallucinations, feedback loops, and brand reputation 29:05 Why SEO, organic content, and marketing fundamentals still matter 32:16 Connecting digital marketing with real-life experiences 34:39 Expanding brand safety to include what AI says about your brand 36:08 How manipulated content can poison AI results 39:18 Practical AI protection advice for brands and agencies 41:29 Advice for consumers navigating AI-generated information 43:10 Final thoughts and guest contact information   👤 Meet Our Guests: Dr. Cecilia Dones - Founder & Chief Data Officer, Three Standard Deviations Dr. Cecilia Dones is an educator and technology leader who runs Three Standard Deviations, where she focuses on helping organizations navigate responsible technology and AI implementations. She also writes the Substack Authentic Interactions, where she shares her musings regarding technology and the lived experience. Subscribe to her Substack: https://substack.com/@ceciliadones Website: https://www.3standarddeviations.com/  📎 Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ceciliadones    Iesha White - Director of Intelligence, Check My Ads Institute Iesha White is a programmatic advertising veteran with over a decade of experience in the industry. She has worked in both the United States and the United Kingdom, spanning roles on the ad-tech side, brand side, and agency side twice each. In her current role at Check My Ads Institute, she oversees all research and investigations.  📎 Connect on LinkedIn: ​​https://www.linkedin.com/in/iesha-white-marketing/       💻 Meet The Team: Hélène Parker – Chief Programmatic Coach 🌐 heleneparker.com 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/helene-parker/ Manuela Cortes – Co-Host, Programmatic Digest en Español 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuela-cortes-/     🎓 Learn Programmatic: For Individual Buyers: https://heleneparker.com/library Subscribe to the Newsletter: https://heleneparker.com/newsletter Be the first to find out about free programmatic training workshops: https://www.heleneparker.com/waitlist/     📲 Follow Us: 🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/programmatic-digest-podcast ▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@programmaticdigest