S2E10: Bob Knakal & the NYC Map Room that Won 92 of 94 Pitches (Audio only)

Bob Knakal joins Danny Fontaine inside the Knakal Map Room in Manhattan to reveal how one room helped win 92 of 94 real estate pitches. This is a masterclass in high-stakes selling, NYC commercial real estate, reputation, market presence, physical experience, AI, hard mail, storytelling and what it really takes to win trust when the stakes are enormous. Bob Knakal is the Chairman and CEO of BKREA and one of the most prolific commercial real estate brokers in American history. Across more than 42 years in New York City real estate, he has sold thousands of buildings and built a reputation as one of the great dealmakers of his generation. In this episode of Pitch Masters, I flew to Manhattan to meet Bob in the world-famous Knakal Map Room, a 24 foot by 10 foot physical map of Manhattan covered in data, post-it notes, colour codes and market intelligence. Bob explains how the Map Room began during the pandemic, why he walked every block of Manhattan south of 96th Street, why he still believes physical experience beats a screen, and how the room creates an immediate impression on clients.   We also talk about: Why Bob says real estate is really the information and relationship business * How he accidentally got into commercial real estate What he learned from pitching around 10,000 times Why his career pitch win rate is around 26%, but the Map Room has won 92 of 94 pitches The billion-dollar pitch involving a brown paper bag, a mason jar and a pile of nuts and bolts Why hard mail still works when email does not Why market presence is not about ego, but helping clients How getting fired helped him see everything more clearly How Bob uses AI alongside old-school discipline and analogue research Why being different matters more than being cheaper What any salesperson, founder, broker, leader or communicator can learn from elite real estate dealmaking CHAPTERS:   GUEST: Bob Knakal, Chairman and CEO, BKREA Official website: bkrea.com Bob Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/bobknakal Email: [email protected] Bob's cell: +1 917-509-9501   HOST Danny Fontaine, Author of PITCH: How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience on the Planet / Host of Pitch Masters Podcast. Find out more: Website: pitchguy.co.uk LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dannyfontaine/ Instagram: instagram.com/dannyfontaine TikTok: tiktok.com/@pitchguy   LISTEN TO PITCH MASTERS Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/pitch-masters/id1650175804 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4T2HQsKwfx67CDzeUL4wTD?si=90d39222891b4931 YouTube playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYs5idRWzXZKPJYYR26MPuskp2YAaTS5o&si=bXx0OKO1jHLNZ5QO MORE PITCH MASTERS EPISODES ON YOUTUBE Daniel H. Pink: https://youtu.be/ZhwAmlg8OPA?si=9QOy5Uc2JNc4dwpU Rory Sutherland: https://youtu.be/p2Hc2gQPaSk?si=RvyAj9Ewqjbm9vdY Nancy Duarte: https://youtu.be/8_Zhmu8gxLc?si=-NF7SMz6vRjViZz0 Simon Sinek: https://youtu.be/2bLR_PbB94A?si=TqpIl1wN3yHd2rya Jeb Blount: https://youtu.be/B_S1ChPBLlM?si=qDKxah9tVK5EZtJo Oren Klaff: https://youtu.be/lAXlPyYSpZs?si=6ySPsHteD4b0CSaC   ABOUT PITCH MASTERS Pitch Masters is the podcast where Danny Fontaine speaks to world-class experts in pitching, persuasion, storytelling, sales, creativity, behavioural science and business influence. The aim is simple: to understand how the best in the world win attention, build trust and convince people to act. Subscribe for more conversations with the masters of pitching. #BobKnakal #CommercialRealEstate #PitchMasters

Most pitches don’t fail because of weak ideas. They fail because the message isn’t received the way it was intended. In this episode of Pitch Masters, Danny Fontaine speaks with author, TEDx speaker and advisor Gina Balarin about the gap between what we say and what our audience actually hears—and why that gap determines whether a pitch lands or falls flat. Gina shares how storytelling, language and emotion shape influence, why mastering communication can change outcomes, and how to turn disbelievers into believers in high-stakes situations. One of the most powerful ideas in this conversation is simple: if you can master language, you can shape emotion—and if you can shape emotion, you can influence decisions. Key takeaways: - Why emotion—not logic—is the real driver of persuasion - How storytelling creates connection at a neurological level - The role of misdirection and performance in communication - How to spot and handle disbelievers in the room - Why rehearsing mistakes makes you a stronger presenter - How small language choices can trigger big emotional responses   Learn more about Gina Balarin: Website: https://www.verballistics.com.au/ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ginabalarin   If you enjoy the conversation, reviews, ratings and shares are the best way to support the show. Sign up for exclusive content at: http://pitchguy.co.uk/ Follow Danny for more communication insights: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyfontaine/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchguy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dannyfontaine/ My book Pitch: How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience on the Planet is available now on Amazon and from most bookshops. Find out more at https://pitchguy.co.uk

If you think great pitches are about storytelling alone, you may be missing the deeper truth. Persuasion is built on judgment, preparation and the ability to move people. Not just impress them. In this episode, Danny Fontaine sits down with former McDonald’s, Amazon, Volvo and MGM executive Atif Rafiq to unpack what it really takes to influence high-stakes decisions. From negotiating multimillion-dollar deals in his twenties to securing a billion-dollar transformation investment, Atif shares how deep preparation, listening and conviction separate persuasive leaders from everyone else. This is a conversation about pitching when the stakes are real and the room doesn’t owe you anything. From negotiating multimillion-dollar deals early in his career to securing a billion-dollar transformation at McDonald’s, Atif breaks down the habits that separate persuasive leaders from everyone else: Why most pitches fail before the meeting even starts How listening reveals the real decision behind the conversation Why conviction matters and how to earn it How to handle resistance without losing momentum What Amazon’s culture teaches about preparation and influence This isn’t theory. It’s how decisions get made inside the world’s biggest companies. About Atif Rafiq: Former President at MGM Resorts and Chief Digital Officer at McDonald’s, Volvo, and Amazon. Founder & CEO of Ritual, an AI-powered problem-solving platform. He is the author of Decision Sprint: The New Way to Innovate into the Unknown and Move from Strategy to Action. Follow him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/atif1/ If you enjoy the conversation, reviews, ratings and shares are the best way to support the show. Sign up for exclusive content at: http://pitchguy.co.uk/ Follow Danny for more communication insights: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyfontaine/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchguy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dannyfontaine/ My book Pitch: How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience on the Planet is available now on Amazon and from most bookshops. Find out more at https://pitchguy.co.uk #Pitchmasters #pitching #podcast #atifrafiq #persuasion

If pitching is about persuading people to act, then the workplace version of that skill often comes down to something quieter: managing up. In this episode of Pitch Masters, I speak with executive coach and bestselling author Melody Wilding about how influence really works inside organisations. Many capable professionals assume strong work will naturally be recognised. But when ideas fail to gain traction with senior leaders, the issue is often communication rather than competence. Drawing on insights from her book Managing Up, Melody explains how understanding your manager’s priorities, communication style, and pressures can change the way your ideas land — whether you’re proposing a new initiative, advocating for resources, or simply trying to make your work visible. In this conversation we explore: Why strong work doesn’t always translate into influence The problem of “silent competence” in organisations How to understand your manager’s decision-making style Practical ways to navigate difficult conversations with leaders Why managing up is often the hidden form of pitching inside companies Learn more about Melody Wilding: Website: https://melodywilding.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melodywilding If you enjoy the conversation, reviews, ratings and shares are the best way to support the show. Sign up for exclusive content at: http://pitchguy.co.uk     Follow Danny for more communication insights:   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyfontaine TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchguy Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dannyfontaine   My book Pitch: How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience on the Planet is available now on Amazon and from most bookshops. Find out more at https://pitchguy.co.uk   #pitchmasters #MelodyWilding #ManagingUp #podcast #businesspodcasts #pitching

What can business leaders learn from the pressure, craft, and discipline of presidential speechwriting?  In this episode of Pitch Masters, I sit down with Terry Szuplat, who spent nearly a decade as a speechwriter for President Barack Obama, to unpack what makes messages land, what makes audiences lean in, and why “generic” is the fastest route to being forgotten. Terry takes us inside the realities of writing for the most scrutinised speaker on the planet, shares the practical framework he uses to help leaders prepare talks and pitches, and offers a simple principle that instantly raises the bar: say what only you can say.   Connect with Terry Szuplat Website: https://www.terryszuplat.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terry-szuplat-456914137/ If you enjoy the show, reviews, ratings and shares are the best possible way to show your support and are always appreciated. Sign up for the mailing list for exclusive content at http://pitchguy.co.uk/ and follow me on social media for video clips of the episode. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dannyfontaine/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchguy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pitchguy/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyfontaine/ My book, Pitch: How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience on the Planet, is now available: https://amzn.eu/d/ewuiZ53

Why do talented professionals get stuck in mid-level roles even when they’re doing great work? In this episode of Pitch Masters, I sit down with executive presence expert, keynote speaker, and author Lorraine K. Lee to explore why hard work alone isn’t enough to grow your career. Lorraine shares the moment she realised that visibility, not just performance, was the missing ingredient in her own journey from LinkedIn and Prezi to launching her own successful business.  We dive into: Why “hard work speaks for itself” is a myth How to build executive presence in hybrid and virtual environments The RAVE framework (Relationships, Appearance, Visibility, Expertise) How introverts can lead powerfully without pretending to be extroverts How to communicate your value without sounding like you’re bragging Why eye contact and storytelling matter more than slides If you want to influence more effectively, pitch with confidence, and build a reputation that accelerates your career — this episode is for you. Connect with Lorraine K. Lee: Website: https://lorraineklee.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorraineklee/ If you enjoy the show, reviews, ratings and shares are the best possible way to show your support and are always appreciated. Sign up for the mailing list for exclusive content at http://pitchguy.co.uk/ and follow me on social media for video clips of the episode. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dannyfontaine/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchguy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pitchguy/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyfontaine/ My book, Pitch: How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience on the Planet, is now available: https://amzn.eu/d/ewuiZ53

What separates the world’s best communicators from everyone else? In this episode of Pitch Masters, I sit down with Oliver Aust —former easyJet Chief Communicator, bestselling author, and founder of Speak Like a CEO — to talk about how leaders can pitch, persuade, and present with authenticity. From stories of easyJet’s scrappy early days to his philosophy of anti-fragile communication, Oliver shares practical insights on storytelling, structure, and confidence. His advice is simple yet profound: be cool, be helpful, be flexible. To find out more about the Speak Like A CEO Academy, podcast or books, visit Oliver’s website and become a top 1% communicator.  You can also find Oliver on Linkedin here. If you enjoy the conversation, don’t forget to grab a copy of my book: PITCH: How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience on the Planet. You can also find more free content and resources on my website: pitchguy.co.uk And find me on Social Media here:   Linkedin TikTok Instagram   Thanks for listening. Danny.    #PitchMasters #OliverAust #easyjet #Pitching #presenting #Storytelling #Communication #PublicSpeaking #Leadership #Pitching #SpeakLikeACEO #Marketing #PresentationSkills #Creativity #BusinessStorytelling #Confidence #DannyFontaine

In this compelling episode of Pitch Masters, I sit down with Julian Treasure, renowned sound and communication expert, author, and five-time TED speaker whose talks have collectively been viewed over 160 million times. Julian reveals why listening, not just speaking, is critical in business, pitches, and leadership. Drawing from his new book, Sound Affects, we explore the profound impact of sound and listening on our personal effectiveness, organisational success, and even global economics. Tune in to learn how genuinely tuning in can transform your next pitch and beyond. For more insights, explore Julian’s book Sound Affects, or join his online community, The Listening Society, where you’ll get a whole month for free with this link. If you enjoy the conversation, don’t forget to grab a copy of PITCH: How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience on the Planet. It expands on these ideas with real stories, actionable frameworks, and a fresh approach to making your next pitch feel more like a conversation than a performance.

Chris Hay, AI Technologist & Futurist When it comes to pitching, most people think about perfect slides, rehearsed lines, and the sweaty palms that come with trying to stick the landing. But as anyone who’s seen Chris Hay in action will tell you, great pitching rarely looks like a rigid script — and increasingly, it doesn’t happen without a little help from artificial intelligence. Chris and I know each other well through our time at IBM, where I’ve watched him pitch complex ideas to huge audiences without ever appearing tied to a slide deck. He describes himself as a “technologist, futurist and disruptor” — and if you listen to this episode, you’ll quickly see why. While he humbly claims he doesn’t ‘do pitching’, what he actually does is convince people to think differently about technology, the future, and how to adapt — and that, in my book, is pitching in its purest form. The Human vs. AI Paradox I wanted Chris on the show not because we needed another AI hype session, but because he’s refreshingly candid about what AI can and can’t do — especially when it comes to human connection. As someone who lives at the sharp edge of emerging tech, Chris knows better than most how quickly AI is changing the landscape. But he’s also quick to remind us that pitching is, at its heart, a human conversation. In the episode, we dig into what happens when you bring AI into your pitch process — not as a replacement for your voice, but as a tool to shape ideas faster, polish drafts, and even pressure-test your slides from the audience’s perspective. Chris jokes that AI can do a lot of what he does, except stand on a stage and read the room in real time — and that’s precisely where your irreplaceable edge lives. Structured Unstructured: How Chris Pitches One of my favourite parts of this conversation is hearing Chris describe his so-called “structured unstructured mess” approach to pitching. He spends hours drafting and organising a story, often building 60 to 100 slides — but when he’s in front of an audience, he might only use ten. He never hands his slides over beforehand and never locks himself into a rigid order. Instead, he pivots and responds based on audience signals: who’s leaning in, who’s drifting off, and where the energy is heading. This is such an important lesson for anyone who feels chained to a script. The real magic of pitching, as Chris shows, is that you can only plan so much. The rest is reading the room and trusting your expertise. AI as Your Pitch Assistant We also talk about how to use AI as your behind-the-scenes pitch helper. Chris outlines practical ways to record your pitch, get an instant transcript, and ask AI to summarise or restructure it in seconds. He calls this an incredible time-saver — freeing you up to focus on the parts AI can’t replicate: your tone, your delivery, and the emotional arc of your story. We get into real tools too: from ChatGPT for quick structure drafts, to ‘deep research’ prompts for gathering audience insights, to using AI as a virtual focus group to test whether your message lands. What struck me is that none of this replaces a good pitch — it just cuts the grunt work, so you can spend more time crafting moments that resonate. What to Watch For Of course, there’s a darker side too: we touch on what happens when AI-generated content starts feeding itself — the so-called ‘model collapse’ problem — and how to make sure your pitches don’t get lost in a sea of generic AI sludge. Chris’s advice? Be hyper-specific, both in your prompts and your message. AI can generate structure, but it can’t copy your lived experience, your stories, or the way you read an audience’s vibe in the room. A Few Takeaways Throughout our chat, Chris drops nuggets worth scribbling down: Don’t skip the prep: The best ‘improvised’ pitches rest on solid planning. Loosen up: Trust your knowledge enough to pivot live. Use AI as a partner, not a replacement: It’s your fastest assistant, not your stand-in. Keep it human: People show up for you, not your deck. Wrapping Up If you’re curious about how to future-proof your pitching skills in an AI world — or you just want permission to ditch your slide prison — this episode is for you. Chris reminds us that no matter how smart our tools get, pitching will always be an act of human connection, improvisation, and empathy. If you enjoy the conversation, don’t forget to grab a copy of PITCH: How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience on the Planet. It expands on these ideas with real stories, actionable frameworks, and a fresh approach to making your next pitch feel more like a conversation than a performance. Listen now — and let me know what you think. I promise it’s more fun than watching an AI pitch to another AI (although we cover that too!). You can find Chris at his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@chrishayuk   

Daniel H. Pink, bestselling author and expert on human behaviour, joins the show to explore the art and science of persuasion. He shares how modern sales is less about manipulation and more about attunement, buoyancy, and clarity—three traits vital in today’s world of information parity. Pink also discusses the surprising power of ambiverts, the myth of extroverted sales stars, and how regret can drive personal growth. With practical insights and research-backed tips, this episode redefines pitching as a collaborative act rooted in empathy and understanding. When I first started out in the world of pitching, I was terrible. It wasn't a career I’d ever imagined for myself. Like many people, I had a perception of sales as something manipulative and disingenuous—the classic 'used car salesman' trope, full of slick tricks and empty charm. Luckily for me, I stumbled on a book that changed everything: To Sell is Human: The Surprising Truth About Persuading, Convincing, and Influencing Others by Daniel H. Pink. It reframed sales not as something pushy or performative, but as something deeply human. At its best, persuasion isn't about control—it's about connection. So when I launched Pitch Masters, Dan Pink was at the top of my dream guest list. And I’m delighted to finally share this conversation with someone whose thinking shaped my approach not just to pitching, but to communication in every part of life. This isn’t just a conversation about sales or writing—it’s about how humans move each other. We dive into why most of us are selling all the time, even if we don’t realise it. Daniel explains why the old image of the pushy, silver-tongued salesperson is completely outdated—and how modern persuasion is built on empathy, emotional resilience, and making sense of information in a noisy world. You’ll hear about the surprising science behind what really works in a pitch: Why ambiverts (yes, not extroverts) outperform everyone else. The sweet spot for making a persuasive argument (hint: stop at three points). The moment Daniel realised a great pitch isn’t a performance—it’s an invitation. How AI is like a mediocre colleague with one good idea—and that’s enough to unblock you. And why regret, of all things, might be your most powerful teacher. Whether you’re trying to influence a room, sell an idea, or just get your kids out the door, this episode will make you think differently about what it means to pitch.   Final Thought Whether you’re a seasoned presenter, a nervous first-time founder, or someone who just wants to express yourself better, this episode will change how you think about pitching. Dan Pink doesn’t give you a script. He gives you a mindset. And once you adopt it, you’ll never pitch the same way again. 🎧 Listen now to my conversation with Daniel H. Pink on Pitch Masters. Because pitching isn’t just for salespeople—it’s for anyone who wants to move others, honestly and effectively. If you enjoy the show, reviews, ratings and shares are the best possible way to show your support and are always appreciated. Sign up for the mailing list for exclusive content at http://pitchguy.co.uk/ and follow me on social media for video clips of the episode. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dannyfontaine/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pitchguy YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pitchguy/ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyfontaine/   My own book, Pitch: How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience on the Planet, is now available for pre-order: https://amzn.eu/d/ewuiZ53