129: Lucy in the Sky with Dinahs - Part 6

On this episode of the Natasha Helfer Podcast, Brittney Hartley joins to discuss different global initiatives various governments have done to protect children from religious abuse. Natasha and Brittney discuss the events and then share their thoughts on how and where things can improve. Brittney Hartley is an Atheist Spiritual Director at No Nonsense Spirituality. She has a Masters Degree in Applied Theology with a focus on the Future of American Religion. Her emphasis is in nihilism recovery, faith deconstruction, spiritual reconstruction, and feminist spirituality. You can find her on social media under the handle No Nonsense Spirituality, or on her website www.nononsensespirituality.com for courses, coaching, podcasts, and her new book. She can be found on the socials: @nononsensespirituality   To help keep this podcast going, please consider donating at natashahelfer.com and share this episode. To watch the video of this podcast, you can subscribe to Natasha's channel on Youtube and follow her professional Facebook page at natashahelfer LCMFT, CST-S. You can find all her cool resources at natashahelfer.com.  The information shared on this program is informational and should not be considered therapy. This podcast addresses many topics around mental health and sexuality and may not be suitable for minors. Some topics may elicit a trigger or emotional response so please care for yourself accordingly. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or feelings of Natasha Helfer or the Natasha Helfer Podcast. We provide a platform for open and diverse discussions, and it is important to recognize that different perspectives may be shared. We encourage our listeners to engage in critical thinking and form their own opinions. The intro and outro music for these episodes is by Otter Creek. Thank you for listening. And remember: Symmetry is now offering Ketamine services. To find out more, go to symcounseling.com/ketamine-services. There are also several upcoming workshops. Visit natashahelfer.com or symcounseling.com to find out more.

On this episode of the Natasha Helfer Podcast, Natasha is joined by Danielle Calder, LCSW, and Bekah Barton, to discuss reconstructing female sexuality. Danielle is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and therapist who specializes in helping people navigate major life transitions such as religious and faith transitions, relationship challenges, life style shifts, confidence, dating, career, and identity work. Danielle lives in Carlsbad, California and is licensed in multiple states, offering remote therapy sessions throughout California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and Idaho. Danielle works with individuals and couples. She loves hanging out with her friends, being a fun, warm mom, and having fun, and is also a devoted Swiftie like Bekah.     Bekah Barton is on a mission to help women reclaim their pleasure, especially those who have left high-demand religions and were taught that their bodies and desires were something to fear or suppress. As a licensed marriage and family therapist with a Master's degree and specialization in systemic sex therapy, she brings both clinical expertise and deep compassion to her work. She practices at Covenant Sex Therapy, where she works with couples and individuals navigating the full spectrum of sexual concerns, and offers coaching through Everglow Healing. Off the clock, she's a cookbook club host, a devoted Swiftie, and a firm believer in the healing power of a really good nap. You can find out more about Bekah on her socials: Instagram @bekah_barton: https://www.instagram.com/bekah_barton?igsh=MWk0M3ZvcDJzMDNjag%3D%3D&utm_source=qr TikTok: @bekah.barton   Check out their pre-recorded course at: https://www.everglowhealing.com/   To help keep this podcast going, please consider donating at natashahelfer.com and share this episode. To watch the video of this podcast, you can subscribe to Natasha's channel on Youtube and follow her professional Facebook page at natashahelfer LCMFT, CST-S. You can find all her cool resources at natashahelfer.com.  The information shared on this program is informational and should not be considered therapy. This podcast addresses many topics around mental health and sexuality and may not be suitable for minors. Some topics may elicit a trigger or emotional response so please care for yourself accordingly. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or feelings of Natasha Helfer or the Natasha Helfer Podcast. We provide a platform for open and diverse discussions, and it is important to recognize that different perspectives may be shared. We encourage our listeners to engage in critical thinking and form their own opinions. The intro and outro music for these episodes is by Otter Creek. Thank you for listening. And remember: Symmetry is now offering Ketamine services. To find out more, go to symcounseling.com/ketamine-services. There are also several upcoming workshops. Visit natashahelfer.com or symcounseling.com to find out more.

Natasha is joined by Jennifer Aull on this episode of the Natasha Helfer Podcast. They discuss the male experience with purity culture. Jennifer is passionate about empowering people to live their fullest lives. This dedication has been lived out through some of her personal and professional experiences. Jennifer brings with her a wealth of life experience. Along with her marriage and family therapy practice, Jennifer serves as a pastor at the Greenpoint Reformed Church. She has also worked as a chaplain in both hospital and hospice settings. These experiences have taught her that life can be a journey toward greater awareness and spiritual growth and that such awareness can bring about deep joy and fulfillment. Jennifer enjoys working with clients to help them author an authentic life by examining their most challenging past experiences. By creating a warm, safe, nonjudgmental environment, she encourages clients to assess those elements that are limiting them. Through short-term, solution-focused therapy and deeper relational techniques, Jennifer guides clients to find the relationships they long for. Jennifer is experienced in working with a wide variety of people, regardless of religions, genders, cultures, life circumstances, and sexual orientations. Jennifer is a licensed marriage and family therapist who completed her master's degree in marriage and family therapy at Hofstra University. She also received a bachelor's degree in English literature from San Francisco State University. After working for several years as a technology specialist for several investment banks, Jennifer attended Union Theological Seminary, where she received a Master of Divinity Degree. She is an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ and a member of the American Association of Marriage and Family Therapy. Jennifer is a certified Prepare/Enrich premarital counselor with ten years of experience helping couples prepare for greater levels of commitment. She is an AASECT certified sex therapist. She has taught as an adjunct professor at Hebrew Union College, Long Island University Brooklyn, Syracuse University and Widener University.  She is expected to complete her PhD in Clinical Sexology from Modern Sex Therapy Institutes in March 2025.  Her dissertation focuses on the impact of purity culture messaging on male sexuality. She is available for both individual and couples therapy.   To help keep this podcast going, please consider donating at natashahelfer.com and share this episode. To watch the video of this podcast, you can subscribe to Natasha's channel on Youtube and follow her professional Facebook page at natashahelfer LCMFT, CST-S. You can find all her cool resources at natashahelfer.com.  The information shared on this program is informational and should not be considered therapy. This podcast addresses many topics around mental health and sexuality and may not be suitable for minors. Some topics may elicit a trigger or emotional response so please care for yourself accordingly. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or feelings of Natasha Helfer or the Natasha Helfer Podcast. We provide a platform for open and diverse discussions, and it is important to recognize that different perspectives may be shared. We encourage our listeners to engage in critical thinking and form their own opinions. The intro and outro music for these episodes is by Otter Creek. Thank you for listening. And remember: Symmetry is now offering Ketamine services. To find out more, go to symcounseling.com/ketamine-services. There are also several upcoming workshops. Visit natashahelfer.com or symcounseling.com to find out more.

On this episode of the Natasha Helfer Podcast, Christine Forner joins Natasha on this episode of the Natasha Helfer Podcast to discuss patriarchy and misogyny.  Christine Forner is a seasoned clinician, educator and author based in Alberta, Canada, and has over 35 years of experience working with clients affected by coercive control, domestic violence, sexual abuse, and chronic neglect. She specializes in traumatic dissociation, developmental trauma, and the neurobiology of mindfulness. She has a masters in social work and is certified in Sensorimotor Psychotherapy and is internationally recognized as a thought leader in the intersection of dissociation and mindfulness. Her work illuminates the role of patriarchy and misogyny in the genesis of trauma, and she developed the concept of Therapeutic Nurturing,  and the term "secure fullness", which reframes the need for nurturing as a biologically essential force that organizes emotional safety, regulation, and human health. Her upcoming book is titled, "The Craving: How Prolonged Fear Shaped Humanity."   You can find her work at Christineforner.com, on Instagram and X and on Substack @TheFierceNurturer     To help keep this podcast going, please consider donating at natashahelfer.com and share this episode. To watch the video of this podcast, you can subscribe to Natasha's channel on Youtube and follow her professional Facebook page at natashahelfer LCMFT, CST-S. You can find all her cool resources at natashahelfer.com.  The information shared on this program is informational and should not be considered therapy. This podcast addresses many topics around mental health and sexuality and may not be suitable for minors. Some topics may elicit a trigger or emotional response so please care for yourself accordingly. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or feelings of Natasha Helfer or the Natasha Helfer Podcast. We provide a platform for open and diverse discussions, and it is important to recognize that different perspectives may be shared. We encourage our listeners to engage in critical thinking and form their own opinions. The intro and outro music for these episodes is by Otter Creek. Thank you for listening. And remember: Symmetry is now offering Ketamine services. To find out more, go to symcounseling.com/ketamine-services. There are also several upcoming workshops. Visit natashahelfer.com or symcounseling.com to find out more.

Welcome to Part 6 of the Lucy in the Sky with Dinahs series where Natasha discusses psychedelic-assisted therapy within high-demand religious context of Sexual and Religious Trauma. Natasha is joined by Amy Rossi and Aimee Heffernan. In this episode, the team discusses ketamine. Note that neither Natasha or the Amie's are doctors. They do not condone illegal behavior. Please make sure you know your local and state laws before using psychedelics. For more on Amy Rossi, you can go to her instagram at @messages.from.the.medicine For more on Amy Heff, she has an office in Bountiful, Utah, and does video consulting. She's on instagram at: @aimeeheff   To help keep this podcast going, please consider donating at natashahelfer.com and share this episode. To watch the video of this podcast, you can subscribe to Natasha's channel on Youtube and follow her professional Facebook page at natashahelfer LCMFT, CST-S. You can find all her cool resources at natashahelfer.com.  The information shared on this program is informational and should not be considered therapy. This podcast addresses many topics around mental health and sexuality and may not be suitable for minors. Some topics may elicit a trigger or emotional response so please care for yourself accordingly. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or feelings of Natasha Helfer or the Natasha Helfer Podcast. We provide a platform for open and diverse discussions, and it is important to recognize that different perspectives may be shared. We encourage our listeners to engage in critical thinking and form their own opinions. The intro and outro music for these episodes is by Otter Creek. Thank you for listening. And remember: Symmetry is now offering Ketamine services. To find out more, go to symcounseling.com/ketamine-services. There are also several upcoming workshops. Visit natashahelfer.com or symcounseling.com to find out more.

Natasha is joined by Katherine Spearing, MA, CTRC, to discuss her latest book, "A Thousand Tiny Paper Cuts," which addresses the spiritual abuse survivor's recovery journey, on this episode of the Natasha Helfer Podcast. Katherine Spearing MA, CTRC is the founder of Tears of Eden (https://www.tearsofeden.org/), a nonprofit supporting survivors of spiritual abuse, and the former executive producer and host of the groundbreaking podcast "Uncertain", a podcast that pioneered pivotal conversations around Spiritual Abuse. She's also a Certified Trauma Recovery Practitioner (https://www.katherinespearing.com/coaching) working primarily with women who have been impacted by the patriarchy and artists navigating religious trauma. Katherine is a huge advocate for the power of art to help us on our healing journey. She participates in improv theater both as a performer and coach and is the author of one novel ("Hartfords" https://www.katherinespearing.com/books).  She has been a guest on a number of podcasts, including "IndoctriNation" and "A Little Bit Culty," is the author of several nonfiction articles, and writes regularly at katherinespearing.com and tearsofeden.org. Sign up for the newsletter at her website:  katherinespearing.com You can purchase her book at the link below: https://amzn.to/49J7OAs   To help keep this podcast going, please consider donating at natashahelfer.com and share this episode. To watch the video of this podcast, you can subscribe to Natasha's channel on Youtube and follow her professional Facebook page at natashahelfer LCMFT, CST-S. You can find all her cool resources at natashahelfer.com.  The information shared on this program is informational and should not be considered therapy. This podcast addresses many topics around mental health and sexuality and may not be suitable for minors. Some topics may elicit a trigger or emotional response so please care for yourself accordingly. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or feelings of Natasha Helfer or the Natasha Helfer Podcast. We provide a platform for open and diverse discussions, and it is important to recognize that different perspectives may be shared. We encourage our listeners to engage in critical thinking and form their own opinions. The intro and outro music for these episodes is by Otter Creek. Thank you for listening. And remember: Symmetry is now offering Ketamine services. To find out more, go to symcounseling.com/ketamine-services. There are also several upcoming workshops. Visit natashahelfer.com or symcounseling.com to find out more.

Tara Olson joins Natasha on this episode of the Natasha Helfer Podcast. They discuss the intersection of eating disorders, religion and sex. Tara Olson is an Associate Certified Social Worker (CSW) who approaches therapy from a feminist-multicultural, trauma-informed, and culturally responsive framework. She views healing as a collaborative process, where clients bring their lived wisdom and cultural expertise, and together, client and therapist co-create a space for growth and change. For more on Tara, go here: https://symcounseling.com/tara-olson/ Natasha is doing an Ethical Nonmonogamy group starring February 24th. For more, go here: https://symcounseling.com/navigating-ethical-non-monogamy/ To help keep this podcast going, please consider donating at natashahelfer.com and share this episode. To watch the video of this podcast, you can subscribe to Natasha's channel on Youtube and follow her professional Facebook page at natashahelfer LCMFT, CST-S. You can find all her cool resources at natashahelfer.com.  The information shared on this program is informational and should not be considered therapy. This podcast addresses many topics around mental health and sexuality and may not be suitable for minors. Some topics may elicit a trigger or emotional response so please care for yourself accordingly. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or feelings of Natasha Helfer or the Natasha Helfer Podcast. We provide a platform for open and diverse discussions, and it is important to recognize that different perspectives may be shared. We encourage our listeners to engage in critical thinking and form their own opinions. The intro and outro music for these episodes is by Otter Creek. Thank you for listening. And remember: Symmetry is now offering Ketamine services. To find out more, go to symcounseling.com/ketamine-services. There are also several upcoming workshops. Visit natashahelfer.com or symcounseling.com to find out more.

Dr. Quintin Hunt joins Natasha on this episode of the Natasha Helfer Podcast. They discuss a difficult topic: preventing suicide. More on Dr. Hunt: My journey towards being a therapist began when I was 8 years old: my oldest brother died by suicide, my youngest brother developed schizophrenia, and I was sexually abused. It was then, at 8, my own suicidal thoughts began. Throughout my adolescence and early adulthood I struggled with deep feelings of depression, that no one could ever love me, and that even my feelings and emotions did not matter. I even felt God hated me because of the trauma I had gone through and more because of who I was attracted to. The only way I knew how to receive some pieces of love and acceptance I deeply desire was to hid myself and my feelings from everyone around me. My trauma, my family's trauma, and our struggles to get help that helped us deal with OUR patterns of generational trauma is what pushed me towards doctoral education (PhD) and studying what makes someone suicidal and how to help the process of suicide bereavement. It was through this process of studying suicidality over nearly two decades that I was finally able to see the patterns of generational trauma many suicidal folks live in—and I was finally able to see the patterns of generational trauma in my own life and how my own compulsion to hide myself perpetuated the patterns of self-hatred, depression, and loneliness. Identifying the patterns of trauma in my life allowed me to believe that I did not deserve my trauma, that my emotions mattered, and that I mattered. I was finally able to advocate for myself and have been able to finally, for the first time to develop friendships and accept love that others were willing to offer but I was unable to see. You can check out more information at his practice: Olive View Therapy: https://www.oliveviewtherapy.com   To help keep this podcast going, please consider donating at natashahelfer.com and share this episode. To watch the video of this podcast, you can subscribe to Natasha's channel on Youtube and follow her professional Facebook page at natashahelfer LCMFT, CST-S. You can find all her cool resources at natashahelfer.com.  The information shared on this program is informational and should not be considered therapy. This podcast addresses many topics around mental health and sexuality and may not be suitable for minors. Some topics may elicit a trigger or emotional response so please care for yourself accordingly. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or feelings of Natasha Helfer or the Natasha Helfer Podcast. We provide a platform for open and diverse discussions, and it is important to recognize that different perspectives may be shared. We encourage our listeners to engage in critical thinking and form their own opinions. The intro and outro music for these episodes is by Otter Creek. Thank you for listening. And remember: Symmetry is now offering Ketamine services. To find out more, go to symcounseling.com/ketamine-services. There are also several upcoming workshops. Visit natashahelfer.com or symcounseling.com to find out more.

Natasha is joined by two of her colleagues on this episode of the Natasha Helfer Podcast. Amy Roy and Lindsay Ferguson, both interns at Symmetry Counseling, join to discuss supporting faith transitions. Resources referenced in this episode: "When Mormons Doubt" by Jon Ogden: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1535350377/?bestFormat=true&k=when%20mormons%20doubt&ref_=nb_sb_ss_w_scx-ent-bk-ww_k0_1_16_de&crid=WMLVXOBVUVX2&sprefix=when%20mormons%20dou "Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids without Religion" by Dale McGowan: https://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Beyond-Belief-Raising-Religion/dp/0814437419/ref=sr_1_2?crid=352KN87OF690Y&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Ua-_vxM_d-ndcFQVCIkpLRM2COHo1k1vUNsb7Vg8DTIj9zWaLhzegioWmYIX-kglontgVYgyIWW7h2b9swuOondzm9QzYrwoV0bPAWgHtFBOUN9q69ljskYzZZCu3JgPZoibeY4A-UoYIvJCsn9_7T9mEThlMhQ4O2pE06VTtdW53ssBV2AAlwuHlIOk4KDnNwCRaqfN6PPrj5uua1iymcZMZ_EPvPXwgyo9Geh90ws.fZfGgtXas2D1MMYcIHHKADhkgBYgnJyu5KEzjtlgTC0&dib_tag=se&keywords=parenting+beyond+belief&qid=1766593809&s=books&sprefix=parenting+beyond+belief%2Cstripbooks%2C167&sr=1-2 Mormon Mental Health Association: https://mormonmentalhealthassoc.org/ Parenting after a Mormon Faith Crisis: https://www.mormonfaithcrisis.com/parenting-after-a-mormon-faith-crisis-an-overview/ Uplift Kids: https://upliftkids.org/ More on Amy and Lindsay: Amy Roy believes in the power of helping people discover the strengths they already possess within themselves.  Personal empowerment is a driving force in her work and she is deeply passionate about helping people create the lives they desire. Amy spent many years working in higher education and has loved helping young adults along their journey into adulthood.  After completing the CES Seminary teaching program, she worked as an CES Institute teacher for Harvard and MIT students in Cambridge, MA.  Amy's experience of leaving the LDS Church after two years of research, followed by her journey in alcohol recovery, inspired her to return to school for her second master's degree to become a therapist.  Amy is passionate about helping people in recovery and those creating a new life for themselves after major life changes and/or trauma. She sought out a practice with a faith transition specialty and is thrilled to now be with Symmetry!  She is also a board member of the Mormon Mental Health Association (MMHA)  Along with being a Certified Life Coach, Amy holds a Bachelor of Science degree from Brigham Young University and a Master of Higher Education Leadership degree from Northcentral University, and is currently finishing her Master's in May as a Clinical Mental Health Counselor.  Go here to find out more about Amy: https://symcounseling.com/amy-roy/   Lindsay Ferguson is a CSW intern therapist at Symmetry Counseling and an MSW graduate student at Louisiana State University, graduating in May 2026. She works with individuals of all ages and couples, supporting clients through life transitions, trauma, grief, relationship challenges, parenting concerns, LGBTQ+ experiences, religious transitions, and mental health challenges, with a focus on values-based, meaningful living. She's been married for 20 years, is a mom of four (two teens and 11-year-old twins), and enjoys reading, walks with her dogs, and time with her family.  Go here to find out more on Lindsay: https://symcounseling.com/lindsay-ferguson/   To help keep this podcast going, please consider donating at natashahelfer.com and share this episode. To watch the video of this podcast, you can subscribe to Natasha's channel on Youtube and follow her professional Facebook page at natashahelfer LCMFT, CST-S. You can find all her cool resources at natashahelfer.com.  The information shared on this program is informational and should not be considered therapy. This podcast addresses many topics around mental health and sexuality and may not be suitable for minors. Some topics may elicit a trigger or emotional response so please care for yourself accordingly. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or feelings of Natasha Helfer or the Natasha Helfer Podcast. We provide a platform for open and diverse discussions, and it is important to recognize that different perspectives may be shared. We encourage our listeners to engage in critical thinking and form their own opinions. The intro and outro music for these episodes is by Otter Creek. Thank you for listening. And remember: Symmetry is now offering Ketamine services. To find out more, go to symcounseling.com/ketamine-services. There are also several upcoming workshops. Visit natashahelfer.com or symcounseling.com to find out more.

Mike Fuller joins Natasha on this episode of the Natasha Helfer podcast to share his "Compass" framework for healthy Sexuality. You can find out more about Mike by visiting his website: fullercounselinggroup.com You can check out his previous episode on the podcast, "From LDS CES Instructor to LGBTQ+ Affirming, Life Transition Therapist" here:  https://www.natashahelfer.com/the-natasha-helfer-podcast/episode85 For Therapists and Counselors, visit: learnreligiontherapy.com The upcoming, "'Sinner' and 'Saint' as Trauma Responses: Understanding Religious Coping Through a Trauma-Informed Lens" will be January 16, 2026. Go here to sign up: https://learnreligiontherapy.com/course/sinnersaint   Other resources shared in this episode: Blog post by Mike Fuller: What I Wished We Learned About Sex: A Compass for Healthy Sexuality: https://www.fullercounselinggroup.com/blog/blog-post-title-four-drfz3-wfsfk The work of Al Vernacchio: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Al-Vernacchio/author/B00JE5300E?ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true&ccs_id=3cf11c0e-4cde-4b34-aaa0-6de7a122ac0c The work of Emily Nagoski: https://www.emilynagoski.com The work of Doug Braun Harvey and the Harvey Institute: https://www.theharveyinstitute.com/about-us/doug-braun-harvey Ejaculate Responsibly by Gabrielle Blair: https://www.amazon.com/Ejaculate-Responsibly-Whole-Think-Abortion/dp/B0B5YHG14Q/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2HZIFS9HYVZAV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.hY_XQU7U6FCSkdTZNP5Iqck3UTUDfRe5qGuY_vpEH00K5M8pWaRwab0TX7dQMJxV.63enJxmsekW3bywQ2iEq_MGlNt9PzbKZHmOFEtzPKaQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=ejaculate+responsibly&qid=1764982421&sprefix=ejaculate+responsibly%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-1&fbclid=IwY2xjawOu83ZleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETF0N0RDWlRDbktMS1NVMzVjc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHqQGrU8UP7nqBpLZQcAHp-ybwdHDvtBgKl8YS0kyi0Uc0fb9KWuA73dvQ5aN_aem_noSItRK4Z0jdy0FWIbyPdA To help keep this podcast going, please consider donating at natashahelfer.com and share this episode. To watch the video of this podcast, you can subscribe to Natasha's channel on Youtube and follow her professional Facebook page at natashahelfer LCMFT, CST-S. You can find all her cool resources at natashahelfer.com.  The information shared on this program is informational and should not be considered therapy. This podcast addresses many topics around mental health and sexuality and may not be suitable for minors. Some topics may elicit a trigger or emotional response so please care for yourself accordingly. The views, thoughts and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views or feelings of Natasha Helfer or the Natasha Helfer Podcast. We provide a platform for open and diverse discussions, and it is important to recognize that different perspectives may be shared. We encourage our listeners to engage in critical thinking and form their own opinions. The intro and outro music for these episodes is by Otter Creek. Thank you for listening. And remember: Symmetry is now offering Ketamine services. To find out more, go to symcounseling.com/ketamine-services. There are also several upcoming workshops. Visit natashahelfer.com or symcounseling.com to find out more.