Michael Levin & Ken Robinson | Bioelectricity in the era of the Genetic Code

Denis Noble and Michael Levin - two great minds in biology come together on Live Longer World. Denis Noble is a renowned biologist and pioneer in systems biology, known for his groundbreaking work on the electrical activity of the heart and his influential contributions to the understanding of biological systems. Denis is an advocate for taking a systems integrative approach to biology, as opposed to the reductionist gene-centric view that has dominated the field due to Neo-Darwinism. The gene-centric view has failed us in advancing progress on many diseases, and we need to now take a systems based approach focused on functional networks within biological systems. Michael Levin is an American developmental and synthetic biologist at Tufts University, where he is the Vannevar Bush Distinguished Professor. His research is focused on bioelectricity and he is my co-host for this podcast. We discuss: - DNA is not the blueprint of life - Why biology’s reductionist approach is flawed - The errors in Neo-Darwinism - Epigenetic inheritance - How to advance the cure of diseases Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/dnoble Find me: https://x.com/aasthajs TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Denis as Mike Levin’s hero 0:10 Denis’s journey to systems biology; cell voltage is a global property of the cell 3:45 Advice to young researchers pursuing systems biology 7:00 “Absolutely everything is wrong with Neo-Darwinism” 14:10 Epigenetic inheritance 19:12 Genetic vs. other information used by organisms 23:48 Biology textbooks have to expand beyond DNA in 50 years 25:03 Epigenetic processes are ubiquitous 28:58 If not DNA, what is the blueprint of life 36:15 Rewriting biology textbooks is fundamental 39:57 “A lot of time has been wasted” (in biology) 46:52 Darwin on the “Origin of Species” 55:38 “Unfortunate that Philosophy and science have diverged” 1:00:31 Importance of Functional networks; DNA does not predict disease AASTHA, LIVE LONGER WORLD: Twitter: https://x.com/aasthajs Newsletter: https://livelongerworld.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aasthajs/ LINKS: Michael Levin: https://twitter.com/drmichaellevin Denis's book Dance to the Tune of Life: https://a.co/d/3hvh5JW Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/dnoble Michael Levin on Bioelectric Signals for Longevity: https://youtu.be/XboYI_wxDr8?si=WrQ_iI8ABbG6eibm

This interview is part of my series with Dr. Michael Levin where we interview significant people in the history of developmental bioelectricity. Dr. Mustafa Djamgoz was one of the first people to study the role of ion channels and bioelectricity in cancer, which he initially documented in a 1995 paper. His research showed that there was an uptake in voltage-gated sodium channels in all types of cancer metastasis, except prostate cancer, highlighting the significant role of studying ion channels in cancer. Simply put, the spread of cancer cells is linked to increased activity in sodium ion channels, which regulate electrical currents in our cells. Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/mdjamgoz Find me: https://x.com/aasthajs Background on the bioelectricity series & 1st episode with Dr. Richard Nuccitelli: https://youtu.be/DtUqOwTRvz0?si=3OJryM0yJjzfQtfo TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Playing with radios at age 17 to bioelectricity cancer research 4:31 Advice for young people entering bioelectricity 9:02 Biophysics and Cancer neuroscience 17:55 Role of bioelectricity in cancer 27:02 Cancer metastasis and ion channels 28:49 Sodium channel uptake and cancer invasiveness 36:59 Ranolazine, potential anti-metastatic drug 43:45 Funding for bioelectricity cancer research 50:21 Advice for cancer patients AASTHA, LIVE LONGER WORLD: Twitter: https://x.com/aasthajs Newsletter: https://livelongerworld.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aasthajs/ Michael Levin: https://twitter.com/drmichaellevin Mustafa's publications: https://profiles.imperial.ac.uk/m.djamgoz/publications Mustafa's book Beat Cancer: https://www.amazon.com/Beat-Cancer-Regain-Control-Health-ebook/dp/B00CU8QBAS Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/djamgoz Michael Levin on Bioelectric Signals for Longevity: https://youtu.be/XboYI_wxDr8?si=WrQ_iI8ABbG6eibm

Dr. Alfonso Martinez Arias is a development biologist and the author of the book The Master Builder: How the New Science of the Cell Is Rewriting the Story of Life. He also co-authored the biology textbook Principles of Development, which was awarded the Royal Society of Biology book prize. Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/aarias OVERVIEW: Each of our cells has the same DNA. Yet they somehow differentiate into different body parts - eyes, ears, skin, and so on. There is no information in the DNA that tells our cells what to be. How then do they do it? This is just one example of how contrary to what many might think, DNA does not explain every problem state in biology. Biology has placed too much emphasis on our genes, trying to explain every disease state using genes, when the answer might not reside with them. What if answers to these questions lies with cells? Even though Dr. Martinez started off as a geneticist, he decided to pivot to understand the properties of cells better. By understanding our cells better, we can make further progress in understanding disease, longevity, and development. Towards the end, we also talk about Alfonso's fascinating work on gastruloids which are a model to unravel the mysteries of embryonic development, and understand how humans are formed. This conversation is about the cell’s eye view of biology, and how the gene's eye view of biology might have mislead us. We also talk about why the popular selfish gene theory espoused by Richard Dawkins is incomplete. Looking beyond genes is instrumental to making progress in longevity. Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/aarias Find me: https://x.com/aasthajs TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Intro 1:15 DNA does not make us unique 5:28 Cells use our genes 10:42 “We have overstretched what genes can explain” 15:41 Relation between genes and cells 20:28 What about the role of epigenetics? 22:42 Cells use mechanical and chemical signals 27:34 Thoughts on bioelectricity and Michael Levin 32:28 Emergence of cells 38:10 Importance of biophysics; What is life? 42:32 Is cancer when cells lose control? 47:58 Richard Dawkins’ Selfish Gene is Incomplete 54:11 But what if genes control development? 57:29 How to complete the selfish gene view? 1:02:05 Cell’s eye view of biology 1:04:48 Understanding embryonic development; gastruloids 1:18:15 Questions Dr. Alfonso is pursuing1:19:47 Thoughts from Feynman AASTHA, LIVE LONGER WORLD: X: https://x.com/aasthajs Newsletter: https://livelongerworld.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aasthajs/ DR. ALFONSO MARTINEZ ARIAS: Master Builder book: https://www.amazon.com/Master-Builder-Science-Rewriting-Story/dp/1541603273 X: https://x.com/AMartinezArias Bio page: https://www.icrea.cat/Web/ScientificStaff/alfonso-martinez-arias-352001

The following is a fascinating interview with Dr. Charley Lineweaver, who worked with Paul Davies on his work on cancer which we discuss. Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/clineweaver Topics include: - the evolutionary and atavistic theory of cancer - the incorrectness of the somatic mutation theory of cancer - a novel take on attacking the weakness of cancer - how embryogenesis could be viewed as cells reverting to old memory - the origins of multicellularity - “Cancer cannot do anything new” The atavistic theory of cancer states that cancer cells revert to an old memory they have from billions of years, but forget the new memory. The old memory pertains to constant cell proliferation, which happened as single-celled creatures, and in fact in embryogenesis as well. The new memory pertains to regulating cell proliferation and cells knowing when to stop cellular division. In cancer, it seems like cells forget this new memory and revert to the old memory. This theory has many interesting explanations and predictions which we dive into in the conversation. Enjoy! Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/clineweaver Find me: https://x.com/aasthajs TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Background in astrobiology 1:53 Evolutionary theory of cancer 6:22 Atavistic model: Cancer cells go back to “original state” 9:50 Atavistic theory vs. Cancer 14:44 Somatic Mutation Theory of Cancer is Wrong 22:36 Disagreement with Mike Levin’s work 24:17 Attack the weakness of cancer 27:45 Vaccine for cancer 38:08 Wound healing and cancer 41:23 Why new genes are more susceptible to damage 45:26 Origins of multicellularity 48:49 Predictions of Atavistic model 53:45 Cancer cells spread 56:52 Cell proliferation, Cancer, Hayflick limit 58:54 Doctors are not trained in evolution AASTHA, LIVE LONGER WORLD: Twitter: https://x.com/aasthajs Newsletter: https://livelongerworld.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aasthajs/ DR. CHARLEY LINEWEAVER: Website: https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/lineweaver-ch Papers referenced: - Cancer progression as a series of atavistic reversions: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8860064/ - Targeting cancer's weaknesses, not its strengths: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4282648/

This is the third in my series with Dr. Michael Levin where we interview significant people in the history of developmental bioelectricity. Ken Robinson has a long list of accomplishments in the bioelectricity field, covering the role of electric fields in guiding cell migration and more generally the function of electrogenic epithelia in embryogenesis. This is about a ~1 hour conversation in which he talks about his background, the history of the field, and his time in Lionel Jaffe's lab. Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/krobinson Find me: https://x.com/aasthajs Background on the bioelectricity series & 1st episode with Dr. Richard Nuccitelli: https://www.livelongerworld.com/p/rnuccitelli TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Intro 0:38 Ken’s background - From physics to bioelectricity 6:10 Bioelectricity in the era of the “genetic code” 10:27 Ken’s first experiments in ion movement using light 23:25 Proton pump and its significance 26:07 Neurons respond to electrical signals 36:26 Working in Lionel Jaffe’s lab 47:39 Mike Levin as an undergrad 48:49 Membrane potential left-right asymmetry in cells 52:59 Epithelia is powerfully electrogenic 57:49 Advances for bioelectricity 59:27 Underrated people in the field AASTHA, LIVE LONGER WORLD: Twitter: https://x.com/aasthajs Newsletter: https://livelongerworld.com/ Michael Levin: https://twitter.com/drmichaellevin Mike's bibliography of bioelectricity: https://thoughtforms.life/my-reference-lists-whole-endnote-library-and-bibliography-on-bioelectromagnetics/ Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/krobinson Michael Levin on Bioelectric Signals for Longevity: https://youtu.be/XboYI_wxDr8?si=WrQ_iI8ABbG6eibm

This is the second of several interviews Michael Levin and I will do with significant people in the history of developmental bioelectricity. Min Zhao's work is focused on the role of ion currents and applied electric fields in cell migration and wound repair. Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/mzhao Find me: https://x.com/aasthajs Background on the bioelectricity series & 1st episode with Dr. Richard Nuccitelli: https://youtu.be/DtUqOwTRvz0?si=3OJryM0yJjzfQtfo TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Min’s background from trauma surgery to bioelectricity 5:14 Bioelectricity in wound healing 13:51 Potential and challenges of bioelectricity in wound healing 21:40 Min’s take on Robert Becker’s work 24:53 Scientists in the field Min drew got inspired by 29:36 The era before Lionel Jaffe 32:39 Experiments in wound healing using bioelectricity 45:43 Min’s current explorations AASTHA, LIVE LONGER WORLD: Twitter: https://x.com/aasthajs Newsletter: https://livelongerworld.com/ Michael Levin: https://twitter.com/drmichaellevin Min Zhao: https://health.ucdavis.edu/dermatology/faculty/zhao.html Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/mzhao Michael Levin on Bioelectric Signals for Longevity: https://youtu.be/XboYI_wxDr8?si=WrQ_iI8ABbG6eibm

Stephanie Seneff is the pioneer in raising concerns around glyphosate, a chemical and active ingredient in RoundUp and other pesticides, which has practically infiltrated our food system, water bodies, and soil. Glyphosate has been linked to several diseases including liver disease, autoimmunity, neurological disorders, reproductive issues, microbiome problems, and more. Dr. Stephanie Seneff has spent 10+ years researching glyphosate’s harmful impact on our health, and documented her findings in her book Toxic Legacy: How the Weedkiller Glyphosate is Destroying our Health and the Environment. More recently, Stephanie has been doing research on deuterium (a hydrogen isotope in the body) and how glyphosate can cause an excess of deuterium, potentially leading to cancer and other health consequences. Glyphosate is affecting each one of us. It’s worth paying attention to this toxic chemical. Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/sseneff Find me (Aastha) on X: https://x.com/aasthajs DR. STEPHANIE SENEFF LINKS: Website: https://stephanieseneff.net/ X: https://x.com/stephanieseneff Book: https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Legacy-Stephanie-Seneff/dp/1603589295/ AASTHA, LIVE LONGER WORLD: X: https://x.com/aasthajs Newsletter: https://livelongerworld.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aasthajs/ Airchat: https://www.getairchat.com/aasthajs TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Autism in children, vaccines, glyphosate 2:30 Aluminum and fluoride in water 3:47 Glyphosate in our food and its toxicity 6:05 Celiac’s link to glyphosate 8:25 Glyphosate impacting collagen in our bodies 12:55 Soil regeneration after glyphosate 15:24 Breaking down glyphosate in our waterways 16:36 Glyphosate causing sulfate deficiency; cruciferous veggies 18:43 Sulfate powers bioelectricity in our cells; Gerald Pollack 21:23 Avoid sunscreen? 22:25 Deuterium and its toxicity 25:20 How Stephanie started looking at Deuterium 26:36 Low deuterium water good for health? 29:25 Excess deuterium causing cancer 30:52 Stephanie’s wild theory on curing cancer 35:19 What else causes increase in deuterium 35:38 Glyphosate in rain water 36:25 PSCSK9 inhibitors harmful with glyphosate 38:49 Solutions to avoid glyphosate 42:23 U.S. stopped Mexico banning glyphosate Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/sseneff

This is the first of several interviews Michael Levin and I will do with significant people in the history of developmental bioelectricity. Richard Nuccitelli is a legend, having invented (with Lionel Jaffe, in 1974) the Vibrating Probe - a technique that allowed the non-invasive sensing of ion currents around living tissues. This is about a ~1 hour conversation in which he talks about his background, the history of the field, and his current clinical work on the bioelectrics of cancer. Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/rnuccitelli Find me: https://twitter.com/aasthajs BACKGROUND: In 2022, I interviewed Dr. Michael Levin on his work on bioelectricity in cells and how that has the potential to solve cancer and aging. Since then, Mike has also appeared on Lex Fridman and many other podcasts talking about his revolutionary work. Amongst all the podcasts I did, Mike’s work struck me as profound yet underappreciated. The field of biology has focused on the DNA and the relevance of the electric currents in our cells is not appreciated. Yes, the electrical energy powering our cells is what keeps us alive! Earlier this year, I decided to dive deeper into bioelectricity. I’m starting by exploring the history of the field in conjunction with Michael Levin. We’re doing a series of interviews talking to scientists in the field to understand the origins of the field, bottlenecks, progress so far, and what the future could look like. Today's interview is the first in the series with Dr. Richard Nuccitelli. TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Intro to History of Bioelectricity Series 1:09 How Rich got interested in bioelectricity 4:34 Bioelectrics didn't make it to biology literature 7:55 Vibrating probe use cases 10:20 Bioelectrics in 1970s 13:37 Why is bioelectrics underrated? 22:50 Field progression 29:02 Ultra high voltage in treating cancer 39:00 Understanding significance of bioelectrics from 1900s 44:40 Working with Lionel Jaffe 50:27 How Mike entered bioelectrics 54:02 Criticism received by bioelectrics? 57:04 Missing technology to advance bioelectrics 1:00:52 Electrical patterns in cells with age 1:03:12 Image of electrics in organisms AASTHA, LIVE LONGER WORLD: Twitter: https://twitter.com/aasthajs Newsletter: https://livelongerworld.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aasthajs/ Airchat: https://www.getairchat.com/aasthajs Michael Levin: https://twitter.com/drmichaellevin Richard Nuccitelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nuccitelli/ Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/rnuccitelli Michael Levin on Bioelectric Signals for Longevity: https://youtu.be/XboYI_wxDr8?si=WrQ_iI8ABbG6eibm

Dr. Mikkael Sekeres is the author of the book The Drugs and FDA. He served as the chair of the Oncology Drugs Advisory Committee of the FDA, and was on the jury for the controversial trial of the breast cancer drug Avastin. We discuss: - The history of the FDA, - The trial of Avastin which got FDA approval in 2008 and revoked in 2011 - FDA's funding mechanisms - FDA ties to big pharma - What can be improved about the FDA and the criticisms it receives Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/msekeres TIMESTAMPS: 0:00 Surprising finding about the FDA 2:38 Why did the FDA get established in 1938? 11:48 1962 turning point in the FDA & Thalidomide 19:57 Kennedy’s efficacy act on drugs approval 25:40 FDA’s accelerated approval; HIV & AIDS 33:23 Avastin breast cancer drug controversy 41:13 Why was Avastin trial contentious? 45:23 Genentech’s argument 50:00 Media reaction 53:21 FDA funded by big pharma 56:39 FDA vs. patient activist groups 59:50 Opioid crisis 1:03:30 Does the FDA go against advisory committee? CONNECT WITH AASTHA, LIVE LONGER WORLD: Twitter: https://twitter.com/aasthajs Newsletter: https://livelongerworld.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aasthajs/ Airchat: https://www.getairchat.com/aasthajs DR. MIKKAEL SEKERES LINKS: Website: https://www.mikkaelsekeres.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/MikkaelSekeres Book: https://www.amazon.com/Drugs-FDA-Safety-Efficacy-Publics/dp/0262047314 If you enjoyed the episode, please share it and leave a rating. Best, Aastha.

Dr. Jennifer Garrison is a an Assistant professor at the Buck Institute for research on aging where she studies women's reproductive aging. In today’s conversation we discussed menopause and it’s effect on women’s health, hormone replacement therapy, and how increasing the number of quality eggs a woman has at age 40 by just 1% can be a game changer. Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/jgarrison Find the previous podcast episodes & subscribe to be notified: https://livelongerworld.com/ Find me (Aastha) on Twitter: https://twitter.com/aasthajs DR. JENNIFER GARRISON LINKS: Lab: http://garrisonlab.com/ Donate to her research: https://gcrle.org/ CONNECT WITH AASTHA, LIVE LONGER WORLD: Twitter: https://twitter.com/aasthajs Newsletter: https://livelongerworld.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aasthajs/ Airchat: https://www.getairchat.com/aasthajs TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Intro 1:38 Jennifer Garrison Intro 2:32 Ovarian aging & health risks 5:23 Progression of Ovarian aging 8:49 Menopause and negative health effects 10:34 Hypothalamus & Mind body communication 14:40 Reproductive & Equality Initiatives 18:21 Biological Clock for Reproductive aging 20:20 Tweaking hormonal cues 22:07 Number of eggs vs. Quality of eggs 25:00 Genetics in ovarian aging 26:21 Understanding family history 27:39 Evolutionary benefit to Menopause? 32:33 Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) & its benefits 38:28 Narrow window for HRT 40:08 Perimenopause 42:56 Women’s health funding 45:14 Average age girls start menstruating is declining 49:10 PCOS 52:42 Athletes and irregular cycles 56:36 Individualized menopause symptoms 1:00:38 Exercise and ovarian aging 1:02:00 Support Jennifer's work Episode Show Notes: https://livelongerworld.com/p/jgarrison POPULAR EPSIODES: - Richard Miller on Longevity Supplements: https://youtu.be/42PzfNs9egA - Matt Kaeberlein on Rapamycin: https://youtu.be/BL67DhNepfg - Michael Levin on Bioelectric Signals for Longevity: https://youtu.be/XboYI_wxDr8 - Nir Barzilai on Metformin & Centenarians: https://youtu.be/YlkBE8N7sl8 - Morgan Levine on Epigenetic Clocks: https://youtu.be/am3YKiTpCHo Thanks for watching & if you enjoy the episode, let's spread the message on longevity. You can support my work by sharing, liking, subscribing, leaving a review on Apple podcasts, or signing up as a premium member. Aging is universal. Let's unite in this fight. Stay in good health - Aastha.