🎙️ Insight Over Information: Justine Campbell at National Grid on Context, Integrity and Leading at Scale

Justine Campbell, Chief Legal Officer at National Grid, joins Scott Brown to share grounded leadership insights from operating at the centre of a complex, global energy business.In this episode of Lessons I Learned in Law, Justine reflects on what it truly means to influence at senior level in-house. She explains why the most effective lawyers focus on delivering insight rather than just information, understanding business context, stakeholder priorities and the pace at which decisions need to be made.She also explores how strong legal leadership is built through assembling diverse, high-performing teams. From creating space for constructive challenge to investing in trusted peer networks outside the organisation, Justine shares candid reflections on how perspective shapes better judgement.Her final lesson centres on recognising the responsibility that comes with senior legal roles. Whether advising boards, managing crises or shaping organisational integrity, she highlights why lawyers must balance technical excellence with emotional intelligence and resilience. Listeners also hear personal insights, including her early ambitions outside law and the importance she places on maintaining curiosity throughout her career.Guest Recommendations:Podcast: The Rest is HistoryPodcast: RUNABook: Persuasion by Jane AustenResources & Links Mentioned in This EpisodeExecutive Counsel Accelerator (ECA): https://www.cpduk.co.uk/courses/heriot-brown-executive-counsel-accelerator-eca-courseThe Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://forms.office.com/e/Pq7Uyv8xnSThe Lodge In-house Legal Community: https://bit.ly/TheLodgebyHBConnect with Heriot Brownhttps://heriotbrown.com/About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities.Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave a review, and share it with colleagues building their careers in legal leadership.Chapters:00:00 Opening reflection – Insight over information  00:48 Scott introduces Justine Campbell, CLO National Grid  02:35 Justine’s career journey & leadership scope  06:52 Lesson 1 – Insight matters more than technical brilliance  14:10 Building trust with stakeholders & commercial judgement  20:42 Lesson 2 – Leading teams through challenge and change  29:18 Developing future legal leaders & succession mindset  36:05 Lesson 3 – Owning your voice and influence  44:12 GC Hot or Not – Leadership visibility & career signals  49:30 Walk-on song, personal reflections & closing

Season 9 of Lessons I Learned in Law opens with a candid and wide-ranging conversation with Kevin Massie, Chief Legal, Risk, Governance and Compliance Officer at Imperial Brands PLC, a FTSE 30 business with 25,000+ employees globally.Just over a year into the role, Kevin reflects on stepping into one of the UK’s most senior in-house legal positions and why the title alone doesn’t guarantee influence.Kevin’s first lesson centres on work-life balance, but not in the traditional sense. From late-night IPO drafting as a trainee in Canada to navigating a demanding first year as GC alongside personal challenges at home, he shares why balance isn’t about rigid boundaries, it’s about building structures that allow you to flex when life demands it.His second lesson is a pivotal leadership moment: realising that if you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room. Kevin explains how a near-miss on a major internal project reshaped his view of leadership, from proving individual brilliance to assembling and empowering people who think differently and better than you.The third lesson focuses on networking without agenda. Kevin recounts how a long-standing mentor invested in a relationship with no commercial expectation, a powerful reminder that authentic connection, not transactional networking, builds a durable career.Along the way, Kevin shares insights on succession planning, international mobility, building diverse leadership teams, and why lawyers must earn their seat at the table, it isn’t automatically granted.About Heriot Brown: At Heriot Brown, we help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers. Beyond recruitment, we foster a thriving community of in-house legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth opportunities.If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your network.00:00 Genuine connection & networking mindset 00:52 Introduction – Kevin Massie, GC Imperial Brands 02:09 Scope of the GC role & global team structure 05:46 Icebreaker – Farming dreams & life in the Peak District 07:20 Lesson 1 – Work-life balance isn’t binary 10:19 Setting boundaries & supporting junior lawyers 12:05 International career moves – Canada to Dubai to Cape Town 15:34 Lesson 2 – If you’re the smartest in the room, leave 18:24 Leadership growth & building stronger teams 21:45 Succession planning & developing future GCs 26:43 Expanding remit – Risk, governance & board exposure 29:30 Earning a seat at the executive table 31:28 Lesson 3 – Networking authentically & giving back 35:04 Spotting real relationships vs transactional networking 37:29 GC Hot or Not – Legal conferences & business partnering 39:55 International mobility for in-house lawyers 41:05 US firms vs Magic Circle debate 43:01 Walk-on song & episode wrap-up  

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues!This week, Scott is joined by Jim Reid, Chief Legal Officer at Fortis, the $35bn North American utilities group headquartered in Newfoundland, Canada. Jim’s career shift is one many lawyers dream about but rarely execute—moving directly from partnership at leading Canadian firm Davies into his first-ever in-house role as a general counsel.In this episode, Jim reflects on the lessons forged during nearly twenty years in private practice and the mindset required to thrive once inside the C-suite. His first lesson centres on resilience—not the glossy version, but the kind earned through long hours, unpredictable workflows, cancelled holidays, and early-career mistakes. Jim explains why resilience, more than intelligence or technical talent, is what determines who survives and progresses in the high-intensity world of transactional law.His second lesson explores the real engine of a legal career: people. From dealing with difficult partners and stressed clients to mentoring junior lawyers, Jim explains why being respected, curious and reliable matters far more than chasing perfection. It’s people—not deal sheets—that shape the most meaningful parts of a legal career.Jim’s final lesson is a powerful one for any lawyer eyeing the GC seat: get comfortable being uncomfortable. He recounts how stepping into an executive role required him to stop hiding behind subject-matter expertise and instead contribute to broad business decisions, even when surrounded by industry veterans. As CLO, his job is no longer to simply advise—but to decide.Jim also discusses leading a decentralised legal structure across ten utilities, the importance of local presence in regulated markets, building credibility as a business leader, and why live music—from Canadian icons The Tragically Hip to The Lumineers—remains his favourite way to reconnect with people.Guest Recommendations🎧 Walk-on Song: The Tragically Hip – Canada’s most iconic band, known for storytelling, hockey references and emotional connection.About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth.🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.This week, Scott is joined by Stephanie Lopes, Chief Legal Officer at Volt.io, the UK-based fintech scale-up powering global instant payments through open banking. Stephanie joined Volt after a decade in the tech transactions team at Bird & Bird, where she worked closely with the founders from their earliest days and even drafted Volt’s first client contract.In this conversation—recorded just weeks before she goes on maternity leave—Stephanie reflects on her four years helping Volt grow from around 40 employees to more than 150. She shares how secondments across organisations like the Bank of England, Nestlé, and ABB shaped her understanding of what good (and not-so-good) in-house looks like, and how that experience gave her the confidence to join the business post-Series A.Her lessons shine a light on modern, commercial in-house practice: the importance of clear communication, especially when working cross-functionally; the courage to hold your values, particularly when ethical questions arise at executive level; and embracing your role as a business leader, not just a lawyer—balancing legal judgment with product, people, and operational understanding.Stephanie also discusses preparing her team for her upcoming leave, implementing tools like Ironclad, using AI thoughtfully (including for tone in emails), and the unexpected joy of running an Instagram-famous household of guinea pigs.Guest Recommendations🎧 Walk-on Song: “Sweetness” by Jimmy Eat World – Stephanie’s “absolute banger” for any victory lap. 🎧 Runner-up: “Blitzkrieg Bop” by Ramones.About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth.🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.This week, Scott is joined by Katja Fenton, General Counsel and Executive Team Member at Fugro, the global geo-data company supporting safer infrastructure, offshore wind development, cleaner energy, and sustainable cities. Remarkably, Katja joined the conversation during her first 90 days—a pivotal moment when lessons feel sharpest, transitions feel largest, and instincts matter most.Katja reflects on the early months of stepping into C-suite leadership while taking on responsibility for a global legal & compliance function of around 60 professionals across four regions. Her first lesson—integrity is trusting your gut, even when it’s uncomfortable—comes from a defining moment early in her career, when she turned down a high-profile international assignment because the work didn’t align with her values. She shares how that instinct has shaped her approach to ethics, leadership, and decision-making ever since.Her second lesson explores the quiet but transformative power of allyship and sponsorship: the people who open doors for you when you’re not in the room. Katja discusses the individuals who have championed her career—from a sixth-form teacher who changed her university path, to leaders who offered opportunities at critical moments—and why she now feels a responsibility to pay it forward.Her final lesson reframes imposter syndrome as evidence of growth. From Dubai’s major construction projects to stepping into the executive team at Fugro, Katja describes how feeling out of depth has consistently signalled the start of her biggest periods of development.Katja also speaks candidly about global mobility, returning to Europe after years in Asia, building diverse teams, raising three young children in the Netherlands, and the importance of curiosity as a core legal skill.Guest Recommendations📚 The First 90 Days – A practical guide for transitions into new roles. 📚 The Culture Map – Essential reading for navigating multicultural teams. 🎧 The Moth – True storytelling, live and unscripted. 🎧 Lessons I Learned in Law – Katja’s go-to podcast on her commute. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai/ to learn more. About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth.🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.This week, Scott is joined by Andy Cooke, Chief Legal Officer at Perk, the global business travel and expenses platform. Andy shares a grounded, refreshingly practical look at what it means to build and lead an in-house legal team inside a high-growth tech company.Drawing on his experience at Perk and his earlier career in private practice and in-house, Andy unpacks three lessons centred on product thinking, influence and culture. He explains why lawyers should view their work as a product used by internal customers and why simplicity, clarity and usability matter more than long memos. Andy also reflects on the real source of influence inside a business: not job titles or hierarchy, but delivering outcomes that genuinely move the needle.His final lesson focuses on culture as a strategic asset. From hiring curious, low-ego team members to designing processes that scale, Andy shows how the right cultural foundations help legal teams operate as enablers—not gatekeepers—in fast-moving organisations.Away from work, Andy talks about the joy of being back home in Yorkshire after time abroad, and how grounding himself in family, community and routine keeps him balanced. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more.About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth.🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network. 

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.This week, Scott is joined by Carolyn Herzog, Chief Legal Officer and Board Secretary at Elastic, the Dutch-headquartered, NYSE-listed global search and AI company. With a career spanning senior legal roles at Symantec, Arm, and now Elastic, Carolyn has led through major transformations in cybersecurity, semiconductors, and artificial intelligence.In this episode, Carolyn shares three lessons that have shaped her approach to leadership and modern legal practice. Her first, Perception is Reality, explores the importance of feedback and empathy—how understanding others’ viewpoints, not proving you’re right, is the key to influence. Her second lesson, Thriving in the Grey Zone, challenges the traditional black-and-white view of legal advice, focusing instead on partnership, pragmatism, and helping the business navigate complexity. And her third lesson, Make It Actionable, calls on in-house lawyers to move beyond advice into operational execution—turning words into outcomes.Carolyn also discusses Elastic’s fully distributed work model, the rise of legal operations, and the responsible use of AI. She offers an optimistic take on how technology will reshape, not replace, the legal profession—urging lawyers to stay curious and proactive to future-proof their careers.Guest Recommendations🎧 Respect by Aretha Franklin – Her ultimate walk-on song and tribute to the Queen of Soul. 📚 Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell – Exploring how small shifts create transformative change. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more.About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth.🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.This week, Scott is joined by Emily Barker, Global General Counsel and Executive Committee member at Arcadis, the Dutch-headquartered, Euronext-listed design, engineering, and sustainability consultancy employing more than 32,000 people worldwide.Emily reflects on stepping into her first executive leadership role, moving beyond legal advice to help shape global business strategy. She shares how courage and optimism, two qualities not traditionally associated with lawyers, can transform teams and drive real-world change. Her first lesson explores the power of a forward-looking mindset in tackling challenges like climate transition and sustainability.Emily’s second lesson, global vision, local wisdom, highlights the importance of understanding local culture and nuance in a global business. As an Australian lawyer fluent in Dutch and embedded in the Netherlands, she’s a rare hybrid leader who bridges global strategy with local insight.Her final lesson focuses on human-centred leadership, why empathy, collaboration, and connection now matter more than technical precision. From managing a 130-person legal team to navigating cultural complexity, Emily’s story is a masterclass in modern in-house leadership.Guest Recommendation🎧 Iggy Pop Confidential – A BBC Radio 6 show blending indie classics, eclectic sounds, and the raw voice of a rock legend. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more.About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth.🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network. 

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.This week, Scott is joined by James Sullivan, an experienced General Counsel and business leader who most recently served as Group General Counsel at Bitstamp, one of the world’s longest-standing cryptocurrency exchanges.James shares an inside look at what it’s like leading legal in the fast-moving world of digital assets — an industry that blends rapid innovation with complex regulation. With a background spanning GC, Chief Risk Officer, COO, and compliance leadership roles, he reflects on how stepping beyond pure legal work has shaped his perspective on what makes an effective in-house function.His lessons are refreshingly practical. He explains why every GC should define their own role and make legal’s work matter to the business, how to know your own value and bring the right version of yourself to each organisation, and why it’s vital to own your career path — being brave enough to change direction when it no longer fits.From negotiating a global remit to completing an executive MBA, James’s story blends commercial thinking with curiosity, adaptability, and a deep sense of purpose.Guest Recommendations📘 What Got You Here Won’t Get You There by Marshall Goldsmith – A must-read for senior lawyers transitioning into leadership roles. 🎧 Political Currency with Ed Balls and George Osborne – Smart, balanced political debate across perspectives. 🎧 The Rest is Politics and The Rest is Politics: US – Insightful and entertaining political commentary. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more.About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth.🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network.

Season 8 of Lessons I Learned in Law continues in partnership with Wordsmith AI, the legal-AI platform built for in-house teams.This week, Scott is joined by Jonathan Cope, Managing Director of the Specialty Lines business at RSA Group Insurance. After a decade as General Counsel and executive-team member, Jonathan made the rare move from legal leadership into a commercial managing-director role. He reflects on what it’s been like to step out of law after nearly twenty years and into a market-facing position in an industry built on relationships.Jonathan shares three grounded lessons. First, the power of responsiveness, why speed, clarity, and reliability still define trusted relationships, whether with clients, colleagues, or brokers. Second, how to handle mistakes: why openness and calm are the marks of true professionals, and how his own early misstep reshaped his career for the better. And third, the value of positive mental imagery, using focus, breathing, and mindset to overcome nerves and lead confidently in new environments.His story is an honest and encouraging reflection for any lawyer considering a career pivot, showing how adaptability and curiosity can open doors far beyond traditional legal paths.Guest Recommendations📚 The Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving – A brilliantly written story with an unforgettable ending.🎧 Desert Island Discs – Timeless conversations on life and music.🎧 The Rest is History / The Rest is Politics – Smart, accessible takes on world events. This episode is proudly sponsored by Wordsmith AI — visit https://wordsmith.ai to learn more.About Heriot Brown: Heriot Brown is a leading global recruitment business specialising in the in-house legal market. We help lawyers find fulfilment in their careers by matching them with exceptional in-house opportunities, while fostering a thriving community of legal professionals who share insights, experiences, and growth.🎧 Enjoyed this episode? Subscribe to Lessons I Learned in Law, leave us a review, and share it with your network.