Part 2: The Unwritten Order of Things—A Reading

Kurt Francom reads this Brigham Young University devotional given by Elder Boyd K. Packer in 1996. Listen to the podcast episode about this devotional and its influence on leadership culture in the Church. Links Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 00:02:00 - The Importance of Teaching Basics 00:03:30 - The Foundation of Knowledge and Testimony 00:05:00 - Understanding the Unwritten Order of Things 00:06:30 - The Role of the Presiding Officer in Meetings 00:08:00 - Accepting Calls and Releases in the Church 00:09:30 - Learning from Experienced Leaders 00:11:00 - Seeking Counsel and Blessings 00:12:30 - The Vertical Nature of Revelation 00:14:00 - The Importance of Being a Good Follower 00:15:30 - Proper Order in Callings and Assignments 00:17:00 - Maintaining Dignity in Meetings 00:18:30 - The Role of the Bishop in Meetings 00:20:00 - Learning Through Observation and Experience 00:21:30 - The Power of the Ordinary Saints The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Kurt Francom, Executive Director of Leading Saints, shares his thoughts on the unwritten order of things—a term popularized by Elder Boyd K. Packer in a BYU devotional in October 1996. This phrase has influenced leadership culture in the Church, often being used as a trump card to justify certain practices or norms that are not explicitly documented in church handbooks. Listen to a reading of the original devotional. Links Is Aspiring Wrong? Church Doctrine, Policy, & Leadership | An Interview with Anthony Sweat Y Religion: Defining Church Doctrine, with Michael Goodman The Role of Doubt and Faith | An Interview With Prof. Michael Goodman Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Kurt explores the context of Elder Packer's talk, highlighting the challenges of leadership in the 1990s when handbooks were not publicly accessible. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the principles behind leadership practices rather than blindly adhering to unwritten rules that may not serve the best interests of the community. He outlines the ten unwritten orders of things mentioned by Elder Packer, assessing whether each principle is supported by the church handbook. While some of these principles align with current guidelines, others are not formally recognized, raising questions about their validity and application in modern leadership. Kurt encourages listeners to consider the implications of using the unwritten order of things as a means of manipulation or control, and advocates for a more open dialogue about leadership best practices, urging leaders to communicate their expectations clearly rather than relying on vague traditions. He invites listeners to engage in this conversation, share their experiences, and contribute to a culture of effective leadership where the church can more-effectively draw people to Christ. 00:02:47 - Context of Elder Packer's Talk 00:04:11 - The Unwritten Order of Things Explained 00:05:24 - Weaponization of the Unwritten Order 00:06:05 - Importance of Context in Leadership 00:07:51 - Changes in Handbook Accessibility 00:09:05 - Elder Packer's Teaching Style 00:10:08 - Challenges in Communicating Leadership Guidelines 00:11:22 - The Role of General Authorities in Leadership 00:12:03 - Misinterpretation of the Unwritten Order 00:13:40 - Elder Packer's Ten Unwritten Orders 00:14:01 - Analysis of Each Unwritten Order 00:19:05 - The Role of Personal Counsel in Leadership 00:20:30 - Observing Church Customs and Traditions 00:21:23 - Setting a Tone of Dignity in Meetings 00:22:06 - The Balance of Leadership and Followership 00:23:20 - Binding Nature of the Unwritten Order 00:24:03 - Current Unwritten Orders in Leadership 00:25:07 - The Tyranny of General Authority 00:26:20 - The Importance of Local Leadership Autonomy 00:27:34 - Principles vs. Prescriptions in Leadership 00:29:41 - Establishing Best Practices in Leadership 00:30:57 - Conclusion: Moving Beyond the Unwritten Order The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler,

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in September 2021. Michael A. Goodman has worked for the Church Educational System since 1989 and was the manager of CES College Curriculum before joining the Brigham Young University Church History and Doctrine department in 2007. He is a professor of Religious Education and serves as the RSC’s Associate Publications Director and the Editor of the Religious Educator journal. Michael holds a bachelor’s degree in Journalism with Public Relations, a master’s degree in Information Technology, and a PhD in Marriage, Family, and Human Development. He is a co-investigator on the Family Foundations of Youth Development longitudinal research project, focused on adolescent and family faith development and mental health outcomes with a special emphasis on suicidality. Michael is married to Tiina Anita Goodman. Links Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library, including the Single Saints Virtual Conference Highlights 1:55 BYU Eternal Families course chair and online curriculum author 4:10 How does BYU teach the doctrine of Eternal Families? Courses based on doctrine with some social science mixed in Eternal principles and daily principles taught (money, sexuality etc) 5:50 We don’t have to convince BYU students that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints values families, but they don’t often know why. 8:30 D&C 131 and 132: The Degrees of Glory and importance of eternal families 10:40 The Family: A Proclamation to the World. Quotes document. 11:40 President Oaks Quote: “Our theology begins with Heavenly Parents. Our greatest aspiration is to be like them.” “The purpose of mortal like and the mission of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to prepare the sons and daughters of God for their eternal destiny- to become like our Heavenly Parents.” 13:35 Divine Identity and Divine Destiny… as children of God 15:45 Mother in Heaven: foundational doctrine 16:35 When speaking to single adults after the foundation has been laid, what do you say next? …Well someday?!? NO! Acknowledge their pain and the issues they face. 17:45 Neil L. Anderson quote: “We will continue to teach the Lord’s pattern for families, but now with millions of members and the diversity among those in the church we need to be more thoughtful and sensitive. Our church culture and vernacular are sometimes quite unique. The Primary children are not going to stop singing 'Families can be Together Forever' but when they sing 'I’m so happy when Daddy comes home' or 'With father and mother leading the way…', not all children will be singing about their family.” 20:50 What do we need to know now, to feel joy now? Four overarching principles: No one denied any promised blessing because of something outside of their control YOU are included in the plan of salvation, and because of that inclusion there is hope. Heavenly Father will not abrogate agency. God loves us with a perfect love and will do anything in his power to exalt us. Through the grace of Christ, Heavenly Father can provide solutions to those things outside our control (24:51) 26:04 Quote President Kimball: “We promise you that in as far as eternity is concerned, NO soul will be deprived of rich and high and eternal blessings for anything which they could not help. That the Lord never fails in his promises. Every righteous person will eventually receive ALL to which they are entitled and have not forfeited through any fault of their own.” 28:15 Stay covenant-connected. 28:30 Quote President Nelson: Through no failing of their own “they” deal with the trails of life alone. May we all be reminded that in the Lord’s own way and time no blessing will be withheld from his faithful saints. The Lords will judge and reward each individual according to their heartfelt desires as well as deeds.”

Jeff Strong worked nearly 30 years in the consumer products industry as a senior executive at Procter & Gamble and global president and chief customer officer at Johnson & Johnson. He then taught in the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University and worked as an advisor to the Church before serving as a mission leader in the Arkansas Bentonville Mission. Jeff has since spent several years doing research on why people are leaving the Church. While not a professional researcher, his career involved a large amount of research and the research he shares in this podcast was done with the help of some of the top Latter-day Saint researchers in the world. Today, Jeff lives in Midway, Utah, and stays busy with a little lavender farm, some business consulting, and enjoying family. Links Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights In this conversation, Jeff dives deep into the tension between church culture and personal beliefs, and how embracing it can lead to growth and understanding within our church community. He discusses the findings from a comprehensive survey that aimed to understand disaffiliation and the tensions members experience in their church lives. A key takeaway is the importance of understanding what members love about the Church, revealing the core values that bind members together, despite the tensions they may feel. Jeff talks about the tensions present in church culture, emphasizing the dual facets of this conflict: the tension between tradition and change, and the tension arising from our differences. He explores how members often feel a significant conflict in their church experience, with many expressing discomfort with the culture. Jeff presents data indicating that nearly half of the respondents felt a significant conflict, and more than half did not feel a strong sense of belonging in their congregations. Throughout the conversation, he emphasizes the importance of recognizing and embracing this tension rather than attempting to eliminate it. 00:02:40 - Purpose of the Survey on Disaffiliation 00:05:12 - Survey Response Insights 00:07:38 - What People Love About the Church 00:10:30 - Core Values of Church Members 00:12:33 - Strengths of the Church 00:13:10 - Tension Between Tradition and Change 00:16:00 - Navigating Cultural Differences 00:19:15 - Understanding Tension in Church Experience 00:22:10 - Data on Comfort and Belonging 00:23:38 - Recognizing Conflict in the Congregation 00:30:02 - Tension Between Personal and Cultural Values 00:35:44 - Embracing Tension in Leadership 00:40:08 - Creating a Safe Space for Tension The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in March 2020. John Bytheway has a master’s degree in Religious Education and is a popular speaker, author of more than two dozen books and CDs, and the co-host of the world-renowned Follow Him podcast with Hank Smith. He has taught the Book of Mormon at Brigham Young University and at the BYU Salt Lake Center. John served as bishop of the Salt Lake Winder 10th Ward, and currently serves as a member of the Young Men General Advisory Council. Links By John Bytheway Our Turtle House is now LatterDaily Meg Johnson's story: "Falling Up" Six Events: The Restoration Model for Solving Life's Problems The Divine Center Follow Him Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 4:00 John’s background as a teacher and speaker 5:45 Writing books and how that happens for him 8:00 How his calling as a bishop came about 9:20 Serving as a bishop is different for every person and area; he had people asking for welfare support before he ever sat in the bishop’s chair 10:40 For bishops with significant welfare challenges in their ward First ask what they need and listen Make a three-column chart of what the ward can do, what the Lord can do, and what the individual can do to help them—handing back the problem to the individual so you can work on it together instead of taking it from them Helps eliminate the transactional mentality and replace it with mentoring Help them get their spiritual act together first 16:20 Emphasis to push more things (such as welfare needs) to the ward council; called a “welfare coordinator” couple to help handle welfare requests before bringing it to the bishop 18:10 Moving people closer to financial self-sufficiency and self-reliance Learning experiences as a missionary in the Philippines and seeing similar development in the welfare program 21:15 Ended meetings with his counselors at a specific time, no matter what 22:30 “It takes a really good meeting to be better than no meeting at all”: Virtual ward council held via text messages throughout the week to eliminate much of the administrative points so they could really focus on individuals in the ward council meeting 24:20 Losing the joy in the calling, and how talking with others who have struggled helped Experience speaking with Robert L. Millet and having “same boat therapy” Recognizing that there are difficulties in the calling but moments that made it worth it Fisher missions vs hunter missions: some fantastic stories from great moments, but difficult days, weeks, and months between 31:30 Calling ward members each evening on their birthday was a simple, routine thing that became important for connecting 34:30 Working with youth: firesides are different than teaching a class Taught Sunday School with his wife after serving as bishop, and went back to the simple idea that you have to care for them first Put people in place with the youth who are great examples; youth learn by example, not principles 37:10 Kids will listen differently to a speaker at a fireside because they don’t think that the speaker was influenced by what their parents or leaders are saying (“An expert is anybody from out of town”) 39:30 Stephen Covey: the order of the events in the restoration is a formula for solving life’s problems. Start with identity and relationships. “If we want to help our children or other people change their behavior, we begin by improving the quality of our relationships with them, and we introduce new ideas before we introduce new expectations and controls. In other words, we help them see the world differently. When a person’s paradigm changes, everything else changes with it.” 44:25 His book about Moroni: Moroni didn’t get to how to run the Church until Moroni chapter 6 46:00 Working with Meg Johnson and Hank Smith Image: magazine.byu.edu

Patrick Sedivy is the Founder and CEO of Cumorah Academy, a non-profit private school dedicated to empowering individuals to follow Jesus Christ and positively impact their lives, careers, and communities. His commitment to service and leadership is rooted in his faith and family background—his parents defected from communist Czechoslovakia in 1969 in search of religious freedom, and he later served as a missionary in the Czech Republic. Patrick and his wife, Allyse, share a passion for inspiring and guiding young adults, which led them to establish Cumorah Academy. Patrick also serves as CEO of HYPE, a program dedicated to empowering youth and creating unforgettable experiences. Links CumorahAcademy.org GoHYPE.org Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Transcript coming soon Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 00:03:39 - The Vision Behind Cumorah Academy 00:05:23 - Understanding the Structure of Cumorah Academy 00:06:30 - The Importance of Leadership Skills 00:08:00 - Who Can Attend Cumorah Academy? 00:09:49 - The International Reach of Cumorah Academy 00:10:34 - Tuition and Scholarships 00:12:26 - Language and Learning Environment 00:13:11 - Success Stories from Cumorah Academy 00:14:41 - Transformative Experiences of Students 00:16:25 - The Need for Continuous Learning 00:17:42 - Addressing the Transition Challenges for Young Adults 00:18:50 - Curriculum Overview and Key Principles 00:19:28 - Accountability and Personal Growth 00:20:34 - Conflict Resolution Skills 00:22:08 - Interactive Learning Methodology 00:23:40 - Balancing Workload and Downtime 00:25:57 - Creating Positive Connections Among Students 00:27:36 - The Role of Visiting Mentors 00:29:50 - Public Speaking and Presentation Skills 00:31:07 - Leadership Curriculum and Modules 00:32:54 - Holistic Approach to Student Well-being 00:34:37 - Measuring Emotional Resilience and Hopefulness 00:36:39 - The Importance of Human Connection 00:38:06 - Opportunities for Mentorship and Involvement 00:39:49 - Conclusion and Resources for Further Engagement 00:41:13 - Introducing Hype: Humanitarian Leadership Experience The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

This is a rebroadcast. The episode originally ran in March 2018. Adam McHugh is an author, former hospice chaplain, spiritual director, and minister, and now a wine tour guide and sommelier. The author of Introverts in the Church: Finding Our Place in an Extroverted Culture, he is an ordained Presbyterian minister, having earned a Masters of Divinity and Masters of Theology in Greek New Testament from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is also the author of The Listening Life: Embracing Attentiveness in a World of Distraction. Since this interview was recorded he has written a memoir, Blood from a Stone. Adam lives in California's Santa Ynez Valley, and may be the only person published in both Psychology Today and Wine Enthusiast. Links Introverts in the Church: Finding Our Place in an Extroverted Culture The Listening Life: Embracing Attentiveness in a World of Distraction Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights 4:30 Becoming an ordained minister 7:30 What led to writing Introverts in the Church 10:50 Explanation of introversion and extroversion 16:00 Problems that introverts experience at church 19:00 Understanding the discomfort of personal vulnerability and sharing beliefs as an expression of faith 22:00 Introverts generally prefer depth over breadth 24:00 The power of listening: experience at a hospital 30:00 Introverts and small talk 34:00 How introverts approach dealing with conflict and decisions 40:00 Silence, reverence, and the internal experience compared to active social environments 45:20 Cultural clash of introvert and extrovert leaders: overcoming stereotypes and encouraging introverts to be leaders 48:50 Reaching out to invite introverts to participate The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Scott Rasband worked 15 years in medical device sales and leadership before transitioning to Chick-fil-A, and has spent the last 10 years operating the Chick-fil-A in Spanish Fork, Utah. In the Church, Scott has served as a Young Men president, elders quorum president, bishopric counselor, and bishop. He is the father of five and currently serves as the bishop of a Young Single Adult ward. Links Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Scott Rasband wears two significant hats: he is both the owner of a Chick-fil-A restaurant in Spanish Fork, Utah, and a YSA bishop. He describes the values instilled by the Cathy family, owners of the Chick-fil-A brand, and how these values shape the experience for both employees and customers. He emphasizes the importance of local ownership and how it fosters a sense of community and connection. Scott talks about "second mile service," a principle derived from Matthew 5:41, which encourages going above and beyond for others. He illustrates this concept with anecdotes from his restaurant—moments that create emotional connections and leave a lasting impression on customers. Scott shares insights into his role as a YSA bishop, where he applies similar leadership principles. He discusses the importance of being present, allowing young adults to lead, and connecting them to a higher purpose. Informal gatherings, like "Straggler Sundays" at his home, foster community and build trust among ward members. Scott's approach to leadership is characterized by vulnerability and accessibility, as he actively reaches out to members through texts and personal interactions. He highlights the significance of mentorship and the power of creating a culture where young adults feel valued and empowered. 00:02:14 - Chick-fil-A Culture and Leadership 00:04:03 - Scott's Background and Experience 00:05:10 - Positive Perspectives on Young Adults 00:06:24 - Connecting Youth to Jesus Christ 00:07:13 - Chick-fil-A's Unique Organizational Culture 00:09:25 - The Importance of Sunday Closure 00:11:22 - Mission to Be the World's Most Caring Company 00:12:22 - Translating Mission Statements into Action 00:13:41 - Servant Leadership in Action 00:14:56 - The Impact of Chick-fil-A's Values 00:16:05 - Local Ownership and Community Impact 00:17:02 - The Role of Personal Connection in Leadership 00:18:10 - Examples of Chick-fil-A's Customer Experience 00:20:10 - Core Four Principles for Employee Interaction 00:22:36 - The Origin of "My Pleasure" 00:23:09 - The Significance of Culture in Organizations 00:24:26 - Retention and Employee Satisfaction 00:25:38 - Patterns of Gathering in the YSA Ward 00:27:44 - Straggler Sunday Concept 00:28:59 - Informal Gatherings and Building Relationships 00:29:20 - Digital Relationships with Ward Members 00:30:48 - The Importance of Availability 00:32:06 - Mentoring and Leadership Development 00:33:11 - Involving Spouses in Ministry 00:34:05 - Creating a Culture of Vulnerability 00:35:09 - The Role of Surprise and Delight 00:36:11 - Letting Young Adults Lead 00:39:29 - Delegating Responsibility in Chick-fil-A 00:40:39 - Building Trust Through Delegation 00:41:26 - Adapting to Change in the YSA Ward 00:42:18 - Embracing New Traditions in Worship The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson,

Listen to the original interview. Brenda Angle is an author and a certified faith-based life coach and speaker who has also trained and certified 200 other faith-based life coaches. She has served as president of United Families for Arizona and as an NGO lobbyist at the United Nations. In her humanitarian work, she has served as vice president of Hearts and Hands for Humanity, vice president director of philanthropy for Legacy Giving Fund, and has traveled to Tanzania, Africa for eight years. At church, she has served as a Young Women president, Primary president, stake and ward Relief Society president, stake camp director, and as a service missionary teaching study skills at the Provo Missionary Training Center. Brenda is the mother of nine children and grandmother of 40. Links Gathering African Saints to the Temple | A How I Lead Interview with Brenda Angle Mully Hearts and Hands for Humanity Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Brenda tells about the remarkable project she spearheaded: organizing a temple trip for over 500 individuals from Tanzania to the Nairobi, Kenya temple during its open house. Brenda recounts how the idea for this trip blossomed from a small initiative to take a handful of people to the temple into a massive undertaking that involved 13 buses and more than 500 participants, including members of the church, investigators, and even orphans. The excitement grew rapidly, and with the help of the Leading Saints community we were able to raise significant funds to support this endeavor. Brenda shared her awe at the generosity of our audience, which allowed her to cover costs for transportation, lodging, and meals for all participants. The journey was fraught with obstacles, yet the spirit of the participants remained high and their gratitude was palpable. Brenda describes the emotional impact of the experience, especially for those who had never seen a temple before. She emphasizes the transformative power of the temple and how this trip will not only impact the individuals who attended but also strengthen The Church in Tanzania. 00:01:41 - Brenda Angle's Humanitarian Project Recap of the previous interview with Brenda. 00:04:22 - Planning the Temple Trip Brenda discusses the initial idea and planning stages for taking people from Tanzania to the Nairobi Kenya temple. 00:06:57 - Fundraising Success Details on the overwhelming support and donations received from the Leading Saints audience to fund the trip. 00:09:20 - Organizing the Trip Brenda describes the logistics of organizing multiple buses and the challenges faced leading up to the trip. 00:12:08 - Challenges on Departure Day An account of the chaos and challenges encountered on the day of departure. 00:15:20 - Arrival in Nairobi The experience of arriving in Nairobi, including accommodations and feeding the participants. 00:17:03 - Experiencing the Temple Describing the participants' experiences at the temple, including their reactions and feelings. 00:20:32 - Diverse Participants Discussion on the demographics of the participants, including members, investigators, and orphans. 00:22:24 - Temple Grounds and Activities Details about the activities on the temple grounds and the emotional impact on the participants. 00:26:21 - Reflections on Leadership and Opposition Brenda shares insights on leadership challenges faced during the project and the spiritual lessons learned. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman,

Ryan Gottfredson, Ph.D. is a cutting-edge leadership development author, researcher, and consultant. He helps organizations vertically develop their leaders primarily through a focus on mindsets. Ryan is the Wall Street Journal and USA Today best-selling author of Success Mindsets, The Elevated Leader, and Becoming Better. He is also a leadership professor at the College of Business and Economics at California State University-Fullerton. Links RyanGottfredson.com Personal mindset assessment Vertical development assessment Ryan's books: Becoming Better: The Groundbreaking Science of Personal Transformation Success Mindsets: The Key to Unlocking Greater Success in Your Life, Work, & Leadership The Elevated Leader: Leveling Up Your Leadership Through Vertical Development Previous podcasts with Ryan: What About Our Culture is Holding Us Back? Is There a Correlation Between Losing Faith and Moving? The Research Behind Becoming Christlike Is Your Mindset Limiting Your Leadership? What Every Leader Should Consider About Community in Their Ward Articles by Ryan at LeadingSaints.org Share your thoughts in the Leading Saints community Read the transcript of this podcast Get 14-day access to the Core Leader Library Highlights Ryan talks about personal development and becoming better leaders through understanding our own complexities and healing. He explores the science of sanctification and the difference between merely doing better and truly becoming better, focusing on our "being side"—the quality of our internal operating system—rather than just our "doing side," which encompasses our skills and knowledge. Learning this distinction can help leaders as they support others who are struggling in their lives. Ryan explains how our relationships with risk, failure, conflict, and even ourselves can reveal the quality of our being. Many leaders operate from a place of fear or insecurity, which can limit their effectiveness and impact. Ryan explores the concept of the "window of tolerance," which refers to our ability to manage stress and emotional responses. He explains how a narrow window can lead to reactivity, while a wider window allows for greater emotional regulation and resilience. Understanding this can help leaders create a supportive environment for their congregations. Ryan also encourages leaders to consider their own journeys and the areas where they may need healing. 00:02:00 - The evolution of Ryan's books and the deepening of his leadership concepts 00:05:00 - Mindsets and the difference between vertical and horizontal development in leadership 00:07:00 - The Being Side vs. Doing Side: The importance of focusing on the "being" side of leadership for transformational growth 00:09:00 - Connection between leadership principles and gospel teachings, emphasizing the importance of becoming 00:10:30 - The role of personal healing in effective leadership and the importance of self-awareness 00:12:00 - The window of tolerance and its relevance to emotional regulation 00:15:00 - Personal complexity and its impact on leadership effectiveness 00:20:00 - Exploration of emotional complexity and self-complexity in leaders 00:25:00 - Examining leaders' relationships with risk, failure, and conflict as indicators of their health 00:30:00 - Contrast between survival-focused leadership and purpose-driven leadership 00:35:00 - Investigating the quality of relationships with self, others, and various challenges 00:40:00 - The challenges of people-pleasing and its impact on leadership effectiveness The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints' mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway,