Turning Conflict from Avoidance to Advantage

Guest: Mike Morrow-Fox, PhD   What if avoiding conflict is the very thing holding your team back?   Most leaders believe great teams minimize workplace conflict. But the reality is far more uncomfortable…and far more powerful. In this episode, returning guest Mike Morrow-Fox breaks down why one negative team member can reduce productivity by up to 40%, why “bad apple” behavior spreads faster than positive influence, and why the highest-performing teams don’t avoid conflict -- they design for it. This is conflict management from a completely new perspective.   You’ll learn: Why psychological safety, not harmony, is the foundation of performance How the brain’s threat response shuts down creativity in seconds The SCARF model for building environments where people can actually think, contribute, and collaborate, and Practical tools to turn tension into creative conflict that drives results.   If your team feels polite, but not fully honest, aligned, or even committed, this conversation will challenge how you lead.   Because the goal isn’t less conflict. It’s better conflict.   Other episodes you'll enjoy: - The Good Fight: Using Productive Conflict with Liane Davey - Addressing Values Conflicts with John Heiser - Work, War, & In-Between: Lessons from a Peace Negotiator with Lord John Alderdice For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. RESOURCES:   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.  -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Booking Producer: Jenna Reik Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay. Sponsorship Manager: Kristine Gross   CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Michael Morrow-Fox, PhD, is a highly-skilled consultant experienced in health care, education, banking, and non-profit management. Michael has over 20 years of experience in leading technology and human resources operations, and several years of full-time university teaching. Michael uses this background to blend his real-world understanding with current theoretical models, helping clients reach goals beyond their current thinking. Michael’s project management, process excellence, problem-solving, and human performance management skills help companies form truly innovative strategies. He’s a valued member of the ILI team.

Guest: Greg Moran, CTO of Pyx Health The pace of change leaders are reacting to today is only 5% of what’s coming. In this episode, host Maureen Metcalf sits down with CTO Greg Moran to explore what accelerating technological change actually demands from leaders right now. Moving beyond abstract conversations about disruption, they dig into the practical realities facing organizations: collapsing business models, increasing decision pressure, and the growing gap between how companies are structured and what the environment now requires. They examine why traditional management systems may now be the very barriers preventing adaptation. And they offer a clear-eyed look at what must shift, including how leaders think about constraints, how decisions are made, and how organizations prepare for a future defined by volatility. This conversation is especially relevant for senior leaders who sense that incremental change is no longer sufficient…and who are ready to rethink leadership at a systemic level. Other episodes you'll enjoy: - The End of Stability: Leading in a Disrupted World with Bob Bush, Jr. - Are You Disrupting or Being Disrupted with Mark Kvamme - Facing Uncertainty: It’s VUCA with Chris Nolan   For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. RESOURCES:   Learn more about Greg Moran on his LinkedIn page at https://www.linkedin.com/in/gsmoran/. Information on Pyx Health is on their website at https://www.pyxhealth.com/.     Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Sponsorship Sales Manager: Kristine Gross ([email protected]) Booking Producer: Jenna Reik ([email protected]) Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.   CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Greg Moran is the CTO of Pyx Health, the female-led and LGBTQI+ founded working with national health insurance plans to improve access to quality care. Through his extensive career, Greg has been a director, founder, advisor and operating executive with extensive global operations experience (U.S., Europe and Asia). He holds a strong market focus with deep technology experience, including start-up, scaling, restructuring, sales, finance, and operations.

Guests: Jim Grote, founder of Donato’s Pizza, & Tom Grote, Chief Catalyst, Edge Innovation Hub What if the future of capitalism depends on something most business leaders rarely talk about, and even disdain: love? In this episode, Jim and Tom Grote, leaders behind Donatos Pizza and the Grote Company, share their decades-long experiment in Agape Capitalism, a business model grounded in the principles of unconditional love, the Golden Rule, and long-term responsibility. This isn’t theory. Over multiple industries—including food service and global manufacturing—they’ve built highly profitable organizations while prioritizing people, community, and purpose. In this episode, we explore: What “love” actually means in a business context—and how to operationalize it Why ethical leadership becomes essential during disruption and uncertainty How companies can navigate automation and AI without leaving people behind The shift from competition to “coopetition” and industry-wide responsibility, and The evolving role of business in feeding the world and supporting planetary health. We also dive into one of the most provocative ideas of the episode: Can we program artificial intelligence with the principles of unconditional love, and should we? As disruption accelerates across industries, this conversation challenges leaders to rethink not just strategy, but the values that guide it, too. Other episodes you'll enjoy: - Our Emotional Recession: How to Lead When People Are Depleted with Joshua Freedman - Why Corporate Social Purpose Also Means Profit with John Heiser - Why Principle Beats Process: Inside the Koch Leadership Framework with Steve Daley   For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. RESOURCES:  Learn more about Agape Capitalism and the Grotes’ Edge Innovation Hub – with businesses practicing this principle – at https://www.edgeinnovationhub.com/agape.     The book Jim Grote referenced, Evolutionary Love and the Ravages of Greed, is available in paperback at https://amzn.to/4tD2N3v.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.   Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.   -----------------------  OUR PODCAST TEAM:  Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Sponsorship Sales Manager: Kristine Gross ([email protected]) Booking Producer: Jenna Reik ([email protected]) Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.   CONNECT WITH US: YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2 Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com   Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating! -----------------------  About Our Guests:  Based on the power of positive thinking and the Golden Rule, Jim Grote founded Donatos Pizza in 1963 in Columbus, Ohio. Sfter years of applying sliced pepperoni by hand in the pizza shop, he went on to invent and patent the Pepp-a-matic, a machine to slice and apply pepperoni directly to pizza. He founded The JE Grote Company on this invention in 1972, which manufactures food processing equipment globally. Grote recently founded the Edge Innovation Hub, a center for creativity, where forward thinking companies can innovate at the edge of possibility.   Grote’s moonshot is to instill unconditional love into artificial intelligence, countering the apocalyptic predictions surrounding AI.After growing up in the Catholic tradition, Grote began his search for a deeper understanding of the golden rule, loving your neighbor as you love yourself. He learned about the Christian traditions of unconditional love, eastern traditions of yoga philosophy, meditation and the teaching of Buddhism on loving kindness and compassion. Jim’s massive transformative purpose is to help evolve the American capitalist system to a profitable model based on the power of love and the Golden Rule, which he calls Agápe Capitalism.    ----- Thomas Grote grew up on Columbus Ohio's south side, working at the original Donatos Pizza and later rising to the post of Chief Operating Officer as the business grew from seven restaurants to over 150. He graduated with a finance degree from Miami University, and his MBA with honors from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.   He opened the groundbreaking Out On Main, a casual fine dining restaurant which celebrated the lives of gays and lesbians. Thomas became chief financial officer for Green Biologics, a UK based biotech company, and continues to consult in business development and brand strategy. Thomas is and has been a tireless advocate for LGBTQ equality.   Tom lives with his husband and two daughters in German Village, Ohio.

Guest: Julia Hartz, EventBrite Co-Founder & former CEO In a matter of days, Eventbrite went from growth to crisis, processing more refunds than revenue as live events canceled worldwide   In this episode, Julia Hartz shares what it really takes to lead when the business you built suddenly stops working.   Drawing on a 20-year journey spanning startup, hypergrowth, IPO, global expansion, and eventual reinvention, Julia reveals the leadership systems that sustained Eventbrite through massive technological shifts, from social media to AI.   More importantly, she offers a candid look at the hardest decisions leaders face: Acting decisively with incomplete but critical information Making painful calls to protect long-term viability Rebuilding culture and trust after disruption, and Leading teams through uncertainty, layoffs, and transformation.   At the core of her approach is a simple but powerful principle: care for people first, and build systems that make that real.   This episode is essential listening for CEOs, senior executives, and leaders navigating rapid change, high-stakes decisions, and the human realities behind them. If you’re leading through uncertainty (and who isn’t?), this conversation will challenge how you think about culture, resilience, and what leadership really demands when everything is on the line.   Other episodes you'll enjoy: - AI, Your Story, & the Professional Identity Crisis with Christopher Washington - Thriving During Crisis in the Middle East with Aline Kamakian - The Human Energy Crisis at Work with Joshua Freedman   For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.   RESOURCES:    Learn more about Eventbrite at https://www.eventbrite.com/about/.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Sponsorship Sales Manager: Kristine Gross ([email protected]) Booking Producer: Jenna Reik ([email protected]) Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.   CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Julia Hartz is the Co-Founder, former CEO, and Executive Chair of Eventbrite. Under her leadership, Eventbrite grew from an innovative idea into one of the world’s largest marketplaces for shared experiences, powering more than five million events annually across the globe. Since its founding in 2006, the company has generated billions in gross ticket sales and processes over two million tickets each week. Julia has prioritized building a strong organizational culture alongside business performance, scaling Eventbrite to more than 700 employees across nine countries. The company has been recognized on Fortune’s 100 Best Workplaces for Women and for Millennials, and has been named one of the Best Places to Work in the San Francisco Bay Area. She has received numerous accolades, including Fortune’s 40 Under 40, Inc.’s 35 Under 35, Fortune’s Most Powerful Women Entrepreneurs, and Inc.’s 500 Female Founders (2026). Her leadership and impact have been featured in leading global publications. Julia began her career as a development executive at MTV and FX Networks before moving to Silicon Valley. She believes that real-life human experiences foster individual happiness and stronger global communities—a conviction that continues to shape Eventbrite’s mission.

Guest: Dr. Marcia Reynolds Why do difficult conversations so often go wrong, even when you prepare for them?   In this episode, host Maureen Metcalf sits down with Dr. Marcia Reynolds to explore how leaders can turn resistance into meaningful results. While most approaches focus on what to say, Marcia reveals that real change happens when leaders shift mindsets, starting with their own.   Together, they unpack: Why knowing what to do rarely leads to behavior change, How emotional reactions (both yours and theirs) shape the outcome of every conversation, and Why psychological safety is the foundation for honest dialogue and high performance.   You’ll learn how to mentally prepare for difficult conversations, manage your emotional state in the moment, and use a coaching approach that helps others see differently so they can act differently.   This episode offers practical tools for navigating high-stakes conversations with clarity, courage, and care…whether you’re giving feedback, addressing conflict, or guiding someone through change.     Other episodes you'll enjoy: - Why You Fight Against Your Own Interests with Lord John Alderdice - Our Emotional Recession: How to Lead When People Are Depleted with Joshua Freedman - Let’s Talk: Four Steps to Bridging Disagreements with Michael Morrow-Fox For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. RESOURCES:   Marcia’s book is Coach the Person, Not the Problem. It’s available in paperback at https://amzn.to/4sEWtIo, and as an audiobook at https://amzn.to/4uMnbR5.   Her prior book is The Discomfort Zone: How Leaders Turn Difficult Conversations into Breakthroughs. You can find it in paperback at https://amzn.to/40PluVk, and as an audiobook at https://amzn.to/4dGfe9L.    You can also learn a lot more about her work online at https://covisioning.com/.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. The Kindle version is available at https://amzn.to/44buVz8 .You’ll find further details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI. Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Video & Graphics Editor: Devon Mushalko Assistant Editor & Raconteur: Luigi Morelli (Information requiring higher security clearance than you have): Jenna Reik & Mike Morrow-Fox CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Like and subscribe! -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Dr. Marcia Reynolds, president of Covisioning LLC, is endlessly curious about how humans learn and grow. She found coaching to be the best technology we have for accelerating the process of change. She has coached and trained leaders and coaches in 41 countries and has presented at the Harvard Kennedy School, Cornell University, and The National Research University in Moscow. Dr. Reynolds is a pioneer in the coaching profession. She is a founding member and 5th global president of the International Coach Federation. She returned to the board for two years in 2016 where she focused on credentialing requirements and strengthening relationships with coach training schools. She is the Training Director for the Healthcare Coaching Institute and on faculty for the International Coach Academy in Russia and Create China Coaching in China. Global Gurus recognizes her as one of the top 5 coaches in the world. Dr. Reynolds has published 5 books.

Guest: Lord John Alderdice, House of Lords & Peace Negotiator What if conflict isn’t driven by rational self-interest, but by something far more human? In this episode, Lord John Alderdice—psychiatrist, political leader, and key architect of the Good Friday Agreement which brought peace to Northern Ireland—shares a radically different lens on conflict. Drawing from decades of peace negotiations, he explains why people and nations often act against their own interests, and what leaders must understand to move from division to resolution. You’ll learn why listening is more powerful than persuasion, why the real issue is often the relationship (not the opposing sides), and how identity, history, and fear shape decisions in ways logic cannot. Alderdice also explores how these lessons apply to today’s global polarization, from geopolitics to corporations. This conversation offers a profound reframe for leaders navigating complexity, conflict, and change in an increasingly uncertain world. Produced in partnership with the International Leadership Association: https://ilaglobalnetwork.org/   Other episodes you’ll enjoy: - The Accidental Peacemaker: How a Philanthropist Pursues Peace in a Complex World with Mike Hardy & Steve Killelea - 11 Steps to Help You Heal Divides with Mike Hardy - Peace through Better Leaders with Mike Hardy - A Genocide Survivor’s Path To Leadership: Turning Trauma into Peace with Hyppolite Ntigurirwa & Mike Hardy For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. RESOURCES:   Lord Alderdice’s website has a wealth of information on his work: https://lordalderdice.com/.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Sponsorship Sales Manager: Kristine Gross ([email protected]) Booking Producer: Jenna Reik ([email protected]) Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.   CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Lord John Alderdice is a psychiatrist, political leader, and internationally recognized peace negotiator who played a key role in the Northern Ireland Good Friday Agreement. A former leader of the Alliance Party and Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly, he has spent decades applying psychological insight to resolving complex political conflicts. His work now spans global peacebuilding, advising on issues of polarization, extremism, and leadership in deeply divided societies. “If you come into a conflict and take a side, you are no longer part of the solution—you are part of the conflict.”  — Lord John Alderdice

Guest: Carla Morelli, Scale and M&A Exec What really happens when organizations try to grow? In this episode, Maureen Metcalf speaks with Carla Morelli about why many organizations struggle to scale, even when strategy and market opportunity are strong. They explore how growth exposes weaknesses in leadership, decision architecture, and culture, and why scaling successfully requires more than simply increasing revenue or headcount. You’ll discover the leadership mindset required to sustain growth, the human dynamics that often derail mergers and acquisitions, and the systems leaders must build to ensure organizations scale without losing trust, execution discipline, or long-term value. If you’re leading organizational growth, acquisitions, or major transformation, this conversation offers practical insights into how leaders can design organizations that grow stronger as they scale. Other episodes you'll enjoy: - AI, Your Story, & the Professional Identity Crisis with Christopher Washington - To Stop a Tyrant: The Power of Followers with Ira Chaleff - In It Together: How Boston Consulting Group Combines Strengths from Every Generation with Alicia Pittman     For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. We’re onTikTok, Threads, and Twitter, too! RESOURCES:   Carla’s website is https://www.gobluechair.com/.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Sponsorship Sales Manager: Kristine Gross ([email protected]) Booking Producer: Jenna Reik ([email protected]) Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.   CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Carla Morelli is a seasoned M&A and strategy advisor with extensive experience across startups, Fortune 200 companies, private equity-backed businesses, and global transactions. With deep expertise in deal execution, transformation, and post-merger integration, she brings a unique blend of financial acumen, strategic insight, and human-centered leadership. A Wharton Online-trained capability builder, Carla has led nine-figure P&Ls and advised on strategy and M&A across the Americas, Europe, and India. She is also an experienced executive coach and counselor, guiding CEOs and boards through growth, M&A readiness, and cultural alignment. Co-authoring key ILI content on merger success, Carla champions authentic, sustainable outcomes that align business objectives with human values.

Guest: Gary Weber, PhD Your conscious mind may not be in control. That’s becoming clear to neuroscientists, and it explains why smart, experienced leaders miss obvious issues and disruptions so often. In this episode, Maureen Metcalf speaks with neuroscience researcher Gary Weber about what modern brain science reveals about decision-making, confirmation bias, and strategic blind spots. Research shows that most cognitive processing happens outside your conscious awareness. That has profound implications for leadership. If our brains are wired to reinforce existing beliefs, then even high-performing executives are vulnerable to dismissing emerging risks, filtering contrary information, and operating within narrowing feedback loops. Together, Maureen and Gary explore: The neuroscience of decision-making The “elephant and rider” model of the brain Why confirmation bias is structural, not personal How hierarchy amplifies blind spots in the C-suite, and Practical ways leaders can design dissent into their organizations. This conversation challenges one of leadership’s most deeply held assumptions: that effectiveness comes from control. Instead, it suggests that adaptability, cognitive humility, and exposure to contrary input may be the true competitive advantages in volatile markets. If you are a senior executive, board member, or transformation leader navigating rapid change, this episode offers both a neuroscience foundation and practical guidance for protecting your strategy from your own success. Other episodes you'll enjoy: - Self-Awareness: The #1 Predictor of Leadership Success with Belinda Gore - Our Emotional Recession: How to Lead When People Are Depleted with Joshua Freedman - From Stress to Strength: How to Rewire Your Brain for Resilience with Jon Wortmann   For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn.   RESOURCES:   One of Gary’s seminal works is Evolving Beyond Thought: Updating Your Brain’s Software. It’s available in paperback at https://amzn.to/4u3qXFh.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8 . The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Sponsorship Sales: Kristine Gross Booking Producer: Jenna Reik Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.   CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Gary Weber is an American author and teacher known for integrating neuroscience, meditation, and nondual inquiry. With a background in science, military service, and senior executive leadership, Weber brings a research-informed lens to questions of consciousness and decision-making. He is the author of Happiness Beyond Thought and Evolving Beyond Thought, where he explores the nature of thinking, identity, and well-being through both contemplative practice and cognitive science. His work bridges rigorous analysis with experiential insight, offering practical approaches to understanding how the brain shapes perception, belief, and behavior.

Guest: Christopher Washington, Provost Emeritus The real challenge for leaders facing disruption isn’t technical. It’s psychological. In this episode, Christopher Washington joins host Maureen Metcalf to explore why transformation efforts fail, even when strategy, data, and logic are sound. Christopher argues that the missing lever in most change efforts is narrative. Strategy tells people what to do, but stories determine whether they actually do it. As AI, economic volatility, and policy shifts create a cascade of “disorienting dilemmas,” leaders are confronting a deeper issue: identity disruption. When professionals fear that their expertise—or even their entire role—may become obsolete, resistance is rarely about logic. It is about belonging, self-worth, and survival. In this conversation, you’ll explore: Why highly intelligent people use their intelligence to defend the status quo How culture is shaped more by repeated sentences than by strategy decks Why anxiety reduces adaptability in times of rapid change The Four Ps of transition narratives: Purpose, Picture, Plan, and Part to Play, and How leaders can honor legacy while guiding reinvention. Christopher also discusses the importance of listening for the stories already circulating inside your organization because those narratives may be doing more work than formal policies or incentives. For leaders navigating AI adoption, workforce anxiety, and enterprise transformation, this episode offers both a diagnostic lens and a practical framework for shaping change that people can believe in. Binge on these other great episodes with Christopher: - The End of Control: Leadership Trends for 2026 - Developing Future-Fit Employees – Christopher is joined by Faris Alami For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. RESOURCES:   Learn more about Christopher on our website at https://bit.ly/CWatILI.   Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. You’ll find details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI, or check out the Kindle version at https://amzn.to/44buVz8. The audiobook version is now available at  https://amzn.to/4dTCleZ.   Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Sponsorship Sales Manager: Kristine Gross ([email protected]) Booking Producer: Jenna Reik ([email protected]) Theme Music by Pavel Bekirov from Pixabay.   CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Dr. Christopher Washington is a strategic leader, systems thinker, and seasoned academic executive with over three decades of experience strengthening nonprofit and educational organizations. He served as Provost and Executive Vice President for Academic Affairs at Franklin University and is a long-standing contributor to the Forbes Nonprofit Council. He previously served as CEO of Urbana University and has held leadership roles on numerous national and international nonprofit boards.   Now, as an IES Principal, Christopher focuses on: Developing intrapreneurs who strengthen organizations through creativity, adaptability, and proactive innovation and designing workplace cultures that support experimentation, learning, and resilience Guiding executives in building antifragile systems capable of leveraging stress and volatility as sources of growth Supporting leaders in responsibly adopting generative and agentic AI Advising nonprofits and educational institutions on leadership development, culture redesign, and system transformation.   As a Fellow of the Innovative Leadership Institute for six years, he will continue to partner with ILI founder Maureen Metcalf to explore emerging trends and co-create influential thought leadership and foundation programs, including their annual podcast interviews on leadership disruptions and opportunities.

Guest: Otto Scharmer In times of disruption, new strategies are not enough. According to Otto Scharmer, what determines the success of an intervention is the leader's interior condition.   In this episode, Maureen Metcalf sits down with Otto Scharmer, Senior Lecturer at MIT and co-founder of the Presencing Institute, to explore the principles behind Theory U and why traditional change management tools fall short in today’s environment.   Together they examine: Why disruption exposes the limits of analytical leadership The gap between traditional change management and emerging realities The four levels of listening — and how they transform decision-making The role of empathy, courage, and “open will” in executive leadership How leaders can create holding spaces that elevate performance and trust, and Why leadership failure often begins with a disconnect from reality.   Scharmer challenges leaders to move beyond reacting to the past, and instead learn to sense and shape emerging future possibilities. This conversation bridges philosophy, systems thinking, and practical application, offering tools leaders can use immediately in their organizations.   If you’re leading through uncertainty, this episode offers both clarity and direction.     Produced in association with the International Leadership Association: https://ilaglobalnetwork.org/ .   Other episodes you'll enjoy: - Leadership at the Edge of Uncertainty with Helle Bank Jorgensen - The End of Stability: Leading in a Disrupted World with Bob Bush, Jr. - Leaders Need More Values with George Limbert For daily wisdom from our guests, be sure to follow us on LinkedIn. We’re on Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Twitter, too!   RESOURCES:   Otto’s landmark book is The Essentials of Theory U; it’s available in paperback at https://amzn.to/4aA4N4v, and as an audiobook at https://amzn.to/4tH38mu.   You can also learn more about Otto on his website at https://ottoscharmer.com/, or through his nonprofit at https://www.presencing.org/.     Our host Maureen Metcalf posts a newsletter every week on LinkedIn. You can subscribe here.    Maureen’s latest book is Innovative Leadership & Followership in the Age of AI. The Kindle version is available at https://amzn.to/44buVz8 .You’ll find further details about it at https://bit.ly/LeaderInAI. Her other 10 books are available on Amazon here.    -----------------------   OUR PODCAST TEAM:   Host & Executive Producer: Maureen Metcalf Editor & Executive Producer: Dan Mushalko Graphics Editor: Stacia Rogan Sponsorship Sales: Kristine Gross ([email protected]) CONNECT WITH US:  YouTube: @InnovatingLeadership  LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/ILI-LinkedIn2  Website: InnovativeLeadershipInstitute.com    Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating!  -----------------------   About Our Guest:   Otto Scharmer, a Senior Lecturer at MIT and Founding Chair of the Presencing Institute, has dedicated the past 20 years to helping leaders embrace cross-sector systems transformation.    Through his bestselling books Theory U and Presence (the latter co-authored with Peter Senge and others), Otto introduced the groundbreaking concept of "presencing" — learning from the emerging future.   He co-founded the MITx u-lab, which has activated a vibrant worldwide ecosystem of transformational change involving more than 260,000 users from 194 countries. In collaboration with colleagues, he co-created global Action Learning Labs for UN agencies and SDG Leadership Labs for UN Country Teams in 26 countries, which support cross-sector initiatives for addressing urgent humanitarian crises.   Born and raised near Hamburg, Germany, Otto’s early experiences on his family farm profoundly shaped his vision. From his father, a pioneer of regenerative farming, Otto learned the significance of the living quality of the soil in organic agriculture, which inspired his thinking about social fields as the grounding condition from which visible transformations emerge. Like a good farmer who cares for the soil, Otto believes responsible leaders must nurture the social field in which they operate. He emphasizes that shifting our economic operating systems from extractive to regenerative requires innovations in leadership support structures for shifting mindsets from ego to eco. Building that infrastructure is the purpose of the u-school for Transformation.