Different Is Not Wrong: Giving Teams the Final Say

What happens when a school team makes a thoughtful decision that's different from what its leader expected?In this episode of Change Starts Here: Research Conversations, Dr. Eve Miller and Kim Yaris explore how schools can move from believing in shared leadership to actually practicing it. Drawing on research about autonomy and motivation, they share three practical strategies for giving teachers and teams meaningful ownership: identifying decisions they can truly own, setting clear boundaries that allow for genuine choice, and recognizing when a different approach isn't necessarily a wrong one.Discover how shared leadership can move beyond committee participation to meaningful collaboration, where teachers' ideas and contributions truly matter.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments!Put this episode into practice! Use this quick Decision-Planning Guide to identify one decision you're ready to give your team the final say on. Download here: Apple: https://resources.franklincovey.com/c/csh-s7e13-handout?x=BaUe_e&utm_source=Apple&utm_medium=CSH Spotify:https://resources.franklincovey.com/c/csh-s7e13-handout?x=BaUe_e&utm_source=Spotify&utm_medium=CSH Host(s): Kim Yaris, Associate Director of Research, and  Dr. Eve Miller, Director of Research Time Stamps & Show Notes:00:00 The 20-Minute Silence Experiment 02:18 Recapping Distributed Leadership Realities 03:17 The Curriculum Review Dilemma 05:37 Ruling Out Non-Negotiable Decisions 07:42 Why Letting Go Feels Risky 08:40 Autonomy Within Real Boundaries 10:02 Deci’s Boring Computer Study 10:45 Three Tweaks for High Motivation 13:40 When Teams Decide Differently 15:05 Quietly Taking Back the Reins 16:41 Approaching Friction with Genuine Curiosity 18:23 Four-Part Decision Planning Guide 19:59 Teaching Teams Their Judgment MattersResources and ReferencesDeci, E. L., Eghrari, H., Patrick, B. C., & Leone, D. R. (1994). Facilitating internalization: Theself-determination theory perspective. Journal of Personality, 62(1), 119-142.Deci, E. L., & Ryan, R. M. (2000). The "what" and "why" of goal pursuits: Human needs and theself-determination of behavior. Psychological Inquiry, 11(4), 227-268.Wu, S. J., & Paluck, E. L. (2025). Having a voice in your group: Increasing productivity through groupparticipation. Behavioural Public Policy, 9(1), 192-211. First published online 2022. Correction:Behavioural Public Policy, 9(2), 482-483.

Episode Description:On this episode of Change Starts Here, Dustin Odham challenges a habit many leaders don't even realize they've fallen into: being so focused on helping people improve that we forget to notice how good they already are.This episode is a reset for anyone who leads people — whether a classroom, a school, or a district. Dustin unpacks why it's possible to deeply admire someone's work and still leave them feeling unseen, and why that gap matters more than most leaders think. You'll walk away with a simple, repeatable practice for making appreciation part of how you lead every day — not something reserved for a holiday or a once-a-year recognition week — along with an easy exercise you can try with your team at your next leadership meeting.If you've ever wondered whether the people around you actually know how much they're valued, this episode will change how you answer that question.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments!Save your seat! 2026 4DX Authors Tour - Register Now:https://www.fcevents.com/website/98987/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=4DX_Fall_Campaign&utm_term=4DX_fall&utm_content=webinar The 4 Disciplines of Execution for Educators - Buy It Now: https://a.co/d/08diT9EKHost: Dustin Odham Time Stamps & Show Notes:00:00 The Encouragement That Backfired 01:28 Connecting Culture, Progress, and People 02:41 What Leaders Miss Moving Fast 04:00 The Scoreboard Versus Human Stories 05:22 4DX Leadership Experience Announcement 06:33 The Observation Note That Hurt 07:43 The Cost of Silent Appreciation 09:55 Moving Past Once-a-Year Gratitude 11:20 Meaningful Recognition in Tough Times 12:30 Notice It, Name It, Repeat It 13:37 Five-Minute Team Leadership Challenge 14:46 Spreadsheets Don't Change Schools

Episode Description:Are you truly sharing leadership—or just delegating responsibility?In part one of this two-part Change Starts Here: Research Conversations series, hosts Kim Yaris and Dr. Eve Miller challenge common assumptions about distributed leadership. Drawing on research into trust, teacher motivation, and student achievement, they explore why well-intentioned efforts to maintain control can unintentionally diminish motivation—and why teacher influence over decisions like discipline policies and school improvement plans matters more than you might think.Discover why effective distributed leadership isn't about choosing between autonomy and accountability. It's about building trust, sharing meaningful decision-making, and creating the conditions for educators to do their best work.Don’t forget to share your thoughts in the comments, and subscribe for part two!Are your teams just carrying out decisions, or are they helping make them? Download from your preferred platform the free Distributed Leadership Audit to find out: Spotify: https://resources.franklincovey.com/c/csh-s7e11-handout?x=BaUe_e&utm_source=Spotify&utm_medium=CSH Apple: https://resources.franklincovey.com/c/csh-s7e11-handout?x=BaUe_e&utm_source=Apple&utm_medium=CSH Host(s): Kim Yaris, Associate Director of Research with FranklinCovey Education & Dr. Eve Miller, Director of Research with FranklinCovey Education Time Stamps & Show Notes:00:00 The Minimum Expectation Trap02:02 Defining Distributed Leadership Realities03:10 Two Contrasting School Climates05:22 Control Versus Real Judgment06:15 The Falk and Kosfeld Experiment07:43 The Cost of Setting Minimums09:45 Shared Influence in 90 Schools11:10 Which Decisions Move Achievement12:39 The Influence of School-Wide Decisions13:46 Autonomy Is Not Abandonment14:49 Conducting the Leadership Audit16:41 Reflecting on Genuine InfluenceResources and ReferencesFalk, A., & Kosfeld, M. (2006). The hidden costs of control. American Economic Review, 96(5), 1611–1630.Ingersoll, R. M., Sirinides, P., & Dougherty, P. (2017). School leadership, teachers' roles in school decision making, and student achievement (CPRE Working Paper). Consortium for Policy Research in Education, University of Pennsylvania.Ingersoll, R. M., Sirinides, P., & Dougherty, P. (2018). Leadership matters: Teachers' roles in school decision making and school performance. American Educator, 42(1), 13–17, 39.Leithwood, K., & Mascall, B. (2008). Collective leadership effects on student achievement. Educational Administration Quarterly, 44(4), 529–561.Ziegelmeyer, A., Schmelz, K., & Ploner, M. (2012). Hidden costs of control: Four repetitions and an extension. Experimental Economics, 15(2), 323–340.

On this episode of Change Starts Here, our host Dustin Odham sits down with Maria Fleming and Betsy Wierda, co-authors of the newest edition of The 4 Disciplines of Execution for Educators. While school leaders rarely struggle to write comprehensive improvement plans, turning those high-minded goals into day-to-day results amid the daily "whirlwind" remains a persistent challenge.Maria and Betsy break down how K–12 leaders can move beyond endless initiatives to build real momentum. They share practical strategies for establishing a tight focus, acting on lead measures, keeping compelling scoreboards, and maintaining a weekly cadence of accountability. From empowering custodial staff to celebrating growth milestones with five-year-olds, this episode provides an actionable roadmap for aligning entire school communities around what matters most.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments! Join the authors of The 4 Disciplines of Execution for Educators, district leaders, and superintendents for an exclusive live webcast featuring a virtual school walkthrough and live Q&A. Learn how to build alignment, shared ownership, and lasting focus across your district.🗓 Date: November 13 at 12:00 PM EDTClaim Your Spot for the Live 4DX Event Here : https://www.fcevents.com/website/98987/?utm_campaign=4DX_Fall_Campaign&utm_content=webinar&utm_medium=podcast&utm_source=podcast&utm_term=4DX_fallHost: Dustin OdhamGuest(s): Maria Fleming, Leader in Me Coach/Consultant, and Betsy Wierda, Leader in Me Coach/ConsultantTime Stamps & Show Notes:00:00 The Day-to-Day Disconnect00:53 From Great Intentions to Results03:18 Meet Betsy Wierda and Maria Fleming06:42 Why Executing Priorities Is Hard08:36 Escaping the Whirlwind of School10:23 Aligning Wildly Important Goals12:59 Activity Versus True Progress14:32 Building Scoreboards and Alignment16:49 Unifying Staff Around Mission18:36 Falling to Systems Over Goals20:34 Turning Around College Park Elementary24:06 Talking With Students About Data25:25 Hope and Student Agency Research27:28 The 4 Disciplines Explained30:59 The Power of Celebrating Wins32:10 Practicing Selective Abandonment34:19 4DX Educator Learning Opportunities36:28 Shifting Paradigms to See Outcomes

In this Change Starts Here research conversation, Kim Yaris and Dr. Eve Miller pick up where their last episode on hope left off: you've named the goal and the obstacle in your way, so what do you actually do when that obstacle shows up? They dig into why following through has less to do with willpower than most of us were taught, starting with a study on distractible kindergartners and a confession from Kim about an exercise routine she abandoned on day ten.From there, Kim and Eve walk through decades of research on implementation intentions, the psychologist Peter Gollwitzer's work showing that a simple “if this happens, then I'll do that” plan outperforms a plan with no trigger attached to it by a wide margin. They close with a practical way for school leaders, teachers, and anyone managing a team to write a plan that actually survives a busy day.Download the Handout:Handout: https://resources.franklincovey.com/c/csh-s7e8-handout?x=BaUe_eHosts: Kim Yaris, M.Ed. (Associate Director of Research with FranklinCovey Education)Dr. Eve Miller (Director of Research with FranklinCovey Education)Timestamps: 00:00 Intro00:14 The cartoon distraction study02:04 Welcome to Change Starts Here Research Conversations03:47 Kim's confession: the exercise plan that didn't stick04:33 It's not about self-discipline05:22 The principal who meant to get into classrooms06:56 Getting practical with if-then plans08:09 The winter break essay study10:00 Eve's own dissertation story11:06 642 studies and the real effect size12:53 Building the principal's if-then plan14:42 Writing your own if-then plan16:18 Using this with teachers and with your team18:24 This week's assignment and closing thoughts

In education, there’s always more to do. Competing priorities, urgent requests, new initiatives, and everyday demands can keep us constantly moving—but being busy and making progress aren’t the same thing. When everything feels important, how do we decide what deserves our focus?In this episode, Change Starts Here host Dustin Odham explores how educators can move beyond activity and create meaningful progress by focusing on what matters most. Drawing from the FranklinCovey Education report Overwhelmed and Overcommitted, Dustin challenges us to define what progress looks like, make it visible, and stay focused long enough to see the work make a difference.Download the report now to go deeper and help your team focus on what matters most: https://content.franklincovey.com/execution-report?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=4DX_Fall_Campaign&utm_term=4DX_fall&utm_content=reportHost: Dustin OdhamTime Stamps & Show Notes:00:00 October Tells the Truth 00:43 The Fading August Energy 01:13 Culture Is What You Repeat 02:05 Activity Versus Actual Progress 02:58 The Trap of False Urgency 03:30 Overwhelmed and Overcommitted Report Insights 04:00 The Air Traffic Controller Analogy 04:40 Doing Less to Achieve Better 05:08 Leveraging October Evidence for Wins 06:05 Becoming Intentional About What Repeats 06:33 The Power of Visible Progress 07:25 Saying We Are Not There Yet 08:00 Three Questions for Leadership Teams 08:48 Your Progress Determinant Final Thought

What does it take to keep improving when nothing is technically broken?In this episode of Change Starts Here, Dustin Odham sits down with Dr. Monica Schroeder, Superintendent of North Shore School District 112, to explore how a high-performing district creates urgency, focus, and shared ownership around continuous improvement. Monica shares how years of intentional work around culture, leadership, data, and student outcomes have helped North Shore 112 keep moving forward—and how tools like the 4 Disciplines of Execution® are helping the district sharpen its focus around a few wildly important goals.Their conversation gets into the leadership behind that progress: building collective efficacy, creating alignment without adding more noise, giving students a stronger voice, and continuing to raise the bar even when the district is already performing well. It’s a practical look at what sustained improvement requires when the goal isn’t to fix what’s broken, but to keep getting better.Want to learn more about North Shore School District 112? Visit their website to check out their progress and WIGs: https://www.nssd112.org/Host: Dustin OdhamGuest: Dr. Monica Schroeder, Superintendent of North Shore School District 112Time Stamps & Show Notes:00:00 Culture Eats Strategy for Breakfast00:41 Introducing Dr. Monica Schroeder02:15 Embracing Technical Pivots and Patience03:09 First-Generation Roots and Work Ethic03:55 Two Decades at North Shore 11205:56 Measuring Staff Culture and Engagement07:48 Rejecting the "Good Enough" Mindset08:39 Setting Wildly Important Goals for Kids10:29 Creating Urgency Without a Crisis11:59 Personal Literacy Story and Student Agency13:29 Moving Data from Compliance to Ownership15:02 The 4 Disciplines of Execution Framework18:18 Cutting the Noise with Focus19:31 Applying 4DX to Personal Wellness Goals21:33 Addressing the Student Engagement Disconnect25:08 Putting Eighth Graders on School Board27:37 Merging Championship Culture with Academics29:46 Leading with an Abundance Mindset33:15 Avoiding Internal Competition Across Schools35:10 Transparent Dashboards and Systemic Growth

On this episode of Change Starts Here: Research Conversations, hosts Kim Yaris and Dr. Eve Miller dive into a two-part research series on why setting big goals and visualizing success often falls short. Dr. Miller breaks down C.R. Snyder’s science-backed definition of hope, which hinges on having both actionable pathways and a sense of personal agency, and explains why relying solely on positive thinking can actually backfire.Drawing on Gabriele Oettingen’s research, the episode highlights a surprising twist: daydreaming about success without addressing reality can lower your blood pressure and drain the physiological motivation needed to get things done. To bridge that gap, Kim and Eve walk through the WOOP framework (Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan). You'll learn how to use "mental contrasting" to spot the internal hurdles holding you back and pair them with simple "if-then" plans to make your school-year goals actually stick.If you enjoyed the episode, be sure to like, subscribe, and drop your thoughts in the comments!Download the free handout here: https://resources.franklincovey.com/c/csh-s7e6-handout?x=BaUe_e&utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=shownotes Hosts: Kim Yaris, Associate Director of Research with FranklinCovey Education Dr. Eve Miller, Director of Research with FranklinCovey Education Time Stamps & Show Notes:00:00 Visualizing Success Delays Offers00:46 Setting vs Achieving Goals01:51 C.R. Snyder's Two-Part Hope03:23 Identifying the Goal Execution Gap04:19 Hope Predicts Academic Performance05:22 Why Vision Boards Backfire06:20 The Pitfalls of Positive Fantasies07:06 Blood Pressure and Motivation Drops08:38 Mental Contrasting Strategy Revealed09:24 Explaining WOOP Acronym Framework09:38 Urban Middle School WOOP Study10:06 Defining Wish and Expected Outcome11:06 Identifying Internal Personal Obstacles12:30 Creating If-Then Execution Plans13:27 Applying WOOP in School Leadership14:35 Action Steps for the Week

In this episode, Dustin sits down with Adam Welcome, a former teacher, principal, and district leader who has spent his career challenging educators to rethink what kids are actually capable of. Adam has worked with over 500 school districts in 49 states, and he brings that same high energy into a conversation about the gap between the world schools are preparing kids for and the world they're actually walking into.Adam and Dustin dig into why adults do too much for kids instead of with them, what it actually takes to let go of control in a classroom or at home, and how small shifts like starting a student podcast or a coding club can build real ownership without adding another initiative to an already full plate.Learn more about Adam and his work:https://www.adamwelcome.comSymposium: https://www.leaderinme.org/symposiums/?utm_source=shownotes Host: Dustin OdhamGuest: Adam Welcome, Speaker, Bestselling Author, Former PrincipalTimestamps: 00:00 Cold open: everything is contagious00:32 Meet Adam Welcome02:34 Welcome to the show03:30 Who are you and what do you love05:12 What's changed for kids in five years07:50 The skills schools aren't teaching09:10 What adults hold onto for comfort12:54 Get kids ready for the world they're growing up in14:41 Letting go and giving it to students17:00 Learning through trying, failing, and following curiosity22:41 Getting over the fear of trusting kids25:21 What changes when kids stop just complying29:25 All kids can achieve30:13 One small shift, and what principals should stop doing36:14 Everything is contagious39:08 What to make contagious in kids40:21 Closing message, where to find Adam, and final thoughts

In this episode of Change Starts Here, Kim Yaris and Dr. Eve Miller dig into what happens in the first few weeks of school, when attention quietly starts to slide toward the schedule, the mandate, or the situation you have no say over. They unpack Stephen Covey's Circle of Influence and revisit decades of research on learned helplessness, including newer work from psychologists Steven Maier and Martin Seligman that offers a different way of thinking about control and agency.Kim and Eve also explore the Whitehall studies on job control and health, why repeated venting can sometimes keep us stuck in frustration, and what all of this means for leaders working in the real-world pressures of schools and districts.Most importantly, they turn the research into three practical moves you can use when your attention starts drifting toward what you can’t change: catch the drift, find the edge, and act.Listen now & download the episode handout for a deeper look at the research and practical ways to use Catch the Drift, Find the Edge, and Act with yourself or your team:https://resources.franklincovey.com/c/csh_s7e4_handout?x=aD_z_A&utm_source=show-notes Hosts: Kim Yaris, M.Ed. (Associate Director of Research with FranklinCovey Education)Dr. Eve Miller (Director of Research with FranklinCovey Education)Timestamps: 00:00 Podcast intro00:15 Welcome back and the September feeling02:21 The circle of influence03:38 Download the handout04:29 The research on learned helplessness06:14 From learned helplessness to learned agency08:25 Our natural response to what we can't control09:36 When there's just too much to do10:40 A Monday morning example11:54 The trouble with venting14:59 Three practical moves: catch the drift, find the edge, act17:54 Closing thoughts