Episode 106: 12 Motivations to Drive Sustainable Choices - with Tom Ellis, CEO, Brand Genetics

“If people genuinely care about sustainability, how can Marketers redesign systems to make the right choice the easiest one?” In this episode of the Can Marketing Save the Planet podcast?, we’re joined by Tom Ellis, CEO at Brand Genetics where we explore the psychology behind sustainable behaviour change, specifically digging into motivations, but from many different angles – 12 to be precise! As Tom explains, "If you can align to people’s motivations, you can shift their behaviour in a way that feels natural—like they’re getting closer to their own goals." Tom shares insights from their research, "Marketing a Difference: A Brand Owner’s Guide to Motivating Sustainable Choices," which identifies 12 key motivations, but what caught our eye when we first came across these insights was the way in which the motivations were presented, with six drivers that encourage sustainable actions and six barriers that hold people back. The research breaks each of these down, explaining the psychology and the ‘SO WHAT?’ behind them. It’s an interesting piece of work and a useful resource for Marketers who are interested in what motivates people. Tom talks about behavioural ‘tricks’, or nudges which push us in the right direction, however, given where we are in relation to the climate crisis, these are no longer enough, instead we need to engender deep, motivation-driven behavioural shifts to tackle the increasing challenges. We discuss the power of motivations and how people act based on core human goals (security, belonging, status etc), and showcase how by aligning sustainability with these, there is more opportunity to drive long-term change. Tom’s advice to Marketers looking at their audiences and stakeholders is, “move from asking, who are we targeting to, what are they motivated by?” . If people genuinely care about sustainability, how can Marketers redesign systems to make the right choice the easiest one? It’s a similar question to the one that came up a couple of years ago when Seth Godin came on the podcast, where he asked… “How can Marketers tell a true story about climate and our impact, so that we can change the systems in our lives, tread more resiliently on the earth, and are more proud of what we are doing?” ...this not only reiterates the significant opportunity Marketers have to drive real and meaningful change, but also the reality that not enough of us are using our skills to do so. So, perhaps start with yourself, what motivates you and what are your drivers or barriers? Tune in as we talk to Tom about: Why motivations matter and how they drive action more than facts. The 12 motivations and how they work. Overcoming barriers, when cost, convenience, and denial hinder progress - how can we address these? The role of habit in driving motivation. Tapping into value rather than guilt. Thinking beyond "consumers", we have got to think of people as humans with complex lives, not just shoppers at a shelf. What to do when the objectives of Marketers and motivations of consumers clash. Link to the research ‘Marketing a Difference: A Brand Owner’s Guide to Motivating Sustainable Choices ‘ - here. For more information about Brand Genetics - Link here: And to connect with Tom Ellis - his LinkedIn profile is here. Enjoy - and if you love the podcast, share with your friends, family and colleagues. ________________________________________________________________________ About us… We help Marketers save the planet. 🌍 Join the Marketers and organisations who have signed our manifesto, engage with our newsletter and training and, work with us to communicate sustainability more effectively. Sign our Sustainable Marketer Manifesto, and join us on our mission. Get in touch to chat. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Reimagining Business in a low-carbon economy… In this episode of Can Marketing Save the Planet, we catch up with Leo Raymond, founder of EdenLab, talking about marketing’s potential to reshape business for sustainability. Leo shares his journey into the sustainability space, sparked by a moment of clarity when his son asked him what he did for a living, he shares… "sustainability was jargon-filled, techno-babble nightmarishness… but I saw an opportunity to repoint marketing’s creativity towards positive behaviour change." Leo argues that Marketers, as behaviour shaping experts, must pivot their creativity toward systemic solutions. He highlights the disconnect, but also the enormous opportunity between marketing and sustainability, noting the sector’s untapped potential for strategic problem-solving. "If businesses can’t make money being green, they won’t do it. Our role is to help them see the new abundance ahead." EdenLab’s mission emerged from the gap he identified, focusing on reimagining markets. Leo also shares his experience of working with brands and discusses EdenLab’s new ‘Greenwash Guardian’, an AI tool designed to help brands communicate sustainability claims authentically. We touch on challenges such as greenhushing, corporate short-termism, and the need for more collaborative innovation upstream when it comes to circularity. Leo remains optimistic even as we face strange times, advocating for Marketers to move beyond promotion and into systemic innovation, addressing sustainability at the product, pricing, and business-model levels. Leo’s call to action is, "believe you’re part of the solution", marketing has the power to drive the transition, provided it leans into creativity, evidence, and bold storytelling. Tune in as we talk to Leo about: Marketing’s strategic role Opportunity over apocalypse - dramatic, but true Framing sustainability as a growth driver vs. doom driven narratives Challenges around the circular economy Degrowth vs. Innovation – is "degrowth" a hard sell? Leo’s request for a brief which proposes how do we, "make twice the profit for half the material throughput" as a viable business objective. For more information, connect with Leo via LinkedIn. For more information about EdenLab and the work they do - Link here:   Enjoy - and if you love the podcast, share with your friends, family and colleagues. ________________________________________________________________________ About us… We help Marketers save the planet. 🌍 Join the Marketers and organisations who have signed our manifesto, engage with our newsletter and training and, work with us to communicate sustainability more effectively. Sign our Sustainable Marketer Manifesto, and join us on our mission. Get in touch to chat. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

If legacy is defined by the choices we make today, how can Marketers and communicators reframe "business as usual" to align with planetary survival before it’s too late? In this episode of Can Marketing Save the Planet? we welcome back Sangeeta Waldron, a communications expert, three times published author, and Founder of Serendipity PR and Media. Sangeeta discusses her latest book, ‘What Will Your Legacy Be?’ - expanding on her previous book by reaching a broader audience beyond the business and PR world. It’s a book that is so easy to get lost in and a wonderful, empowering hope filled read - reminding us just how much collective climate action is taking place across the world by people from all walks of life. The book features 36 global conversations with scientists, indigenous leaders, business professionals and activists all working toward meaningful environmental change. Sangeeta shares her learnings from her research and writing journey and the moment she realised what she was creating was a book of hope. She tells us, "if you don’t have hope, how will you change anything? If you just give up with despair, you’re not going to make change." This ethos drives her book, emphasising the power of storytelling in raising awareness and letting people know that they too can take action. Sangeeta explains that a big takeaway from the book was, it made her realise that legacy starts young - the point when you make begin making choices, she shares, “legacy is no longer what we're thinking about as we get older, legacy is now as young as the age of 14, once you can make your own informed choices in what you're buying and doing, that's your legacy, because that is now connected to your carbon footprint.” We discuss many areas in this episode - from the hidden climate cost of war, where conflicts disrupt weather patterns and food systems, to nature’s intelligence and how ecosystems thrive on balance, a principle humans have ignored. We dive into the important role of local journalism in educating and empowering community action, and how businesses must adapt for example, seasonal marketing and supply chains need climate-conscious strategies, yet, these aren’t currently happening. Sangeeta also shares her transformative experience with Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project, underscoring the need for global collaboration. Despite political and corporate resistance, she remains hopeful, urging communicators to speak boldly about the climate crisis. Reflecting on her mission, she explains, "I wrote this book not for the converted, but for those who have no idea, or maybe aren’t even interested - because the climate crisis is interconnected with everything." Tune in as we talk to Sangeeta about: How we should learn from indigenous wisdom, where sustainable practices are rooted in reciprocity, something that can guide modern solutions. The critical role of local media and their position and responsibility to inform, tell the truth and build community resilience. The need for strategic thinking when it comes to marketing in today’s operating environment, we can’t just keep doing what we’re doing. How we need conversations which spark change (beyond the echo chamber), and create ripples of action. How everyone has the opportunity to make changes and take action – one person can do so much. For more information, connect with Sangeeta via LinkedIn - and her book can be found globally, in all good bookshops and online, via booksellers. Link here: For more information about Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project - Link here: Enjoy - and if you love the podcast, share with your friends, family and colleagues. ________________________________________________________________________ About us… We help Marketers save the planet. 🌍 Join the Marketers and organisations who have signed our manifesto, engage with our newsletter and training and, work with us to communicate sustainability more effectively. Sign our Sustainable Marketer Manifesto, work with us, and join us on our mission. Get in touch to chat. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Agencies and green claims – Walking the talk or just talking? In our final episode of our four part mini-series on navigating green claims and greenwashing we speak to Adrian Ma, founder of Fanclub PR, about the role of agencies in green claims and the rise of purpose-led marketing. Adrian shares his insights from working with impact-driven brands such as Who Gives a Crap, Music Magpie, SMOL and many more, and dives into the challenges agencies face in balancing creativity with compliance. Adrian talks us through the journey Fanclub PR is on and notes the ‘purpose-led’ space is gaining a lot of traction, but with a big question mark over the authenticity and ‘trends’ many are jumping on. Adrian explains how at a recent roundtable event he attended, many introduced themselves as ‘purpose-led agencies’, in addition to that, Meta descriptions of 450 agencies revealed the number one trend was all related to … you guessed it… purpose. However, as Adrian states, “there's a huge, huge disconnect here when it comes to awareness of green claims, I think the awareness is low and the trend is that most agency people are led by the clients (which is fine), but agencies have a duty of care to their own staff to make sure that they know stuff.” At Fanclub PR Adrian and his team work closely with organisations such as Clean Creatives (two-time guests on the podcast - EP 24 and EP 67), and Creatives for Climate, with whom they have helped create an agency guide to greenwashing to support knowledge, education and awareness. (Linked below). On greenwashing vs. greenhushing, Adrian believes, "good creative agencies should help brands be transparent, giving them the confidence to talk about what they’re doing”. We discuss the importance of good communication, something we are very passionate about at Can Marketing Save the Planet, given effective communication is critical to driving engagement and change, both internally and externally. Adrian agrees that communication cannot be underestimated as part of the green claims process, telling us “that process of interrogation is only going to make the work stronger”. As well as good communication we also touch on the future of marketing where Adrian is a firm believer in, "if brands stay consistent with their commitments year after year, they build communities, confidence, and leadership—that’s where real change happens."  Tune in as we talk to Adrian about: The need for agencies to educate their teams on greenwashing to ensure compliance and ethical, authentic storytelling. How transparency beats perfection and how brands should be sharing both successes and challenges to build trust. The disconnect between sustainability teams (focused on data) and agencies (focused on messaging) and the need for collaboration to bridge that gap. How consistency builds impact and creates deeper engagement than those jumping between campaigns. Why good communication is critical both internally and externally and the need to challenge will only make the work stronger. For more information about Fanclub PR and the work they do… visit https://www.fanclubpr.com/ And here are some related links discussed in the podcast: Creatives for Climate Anti Greenwashing Guide for Agencies Big Brand Came and Stole My Purpose Video case study – Mount Recyclemore Video case study – Winnie The Pooh: Deforested Edition   Across this mini-series you’ve heard some fantastic insights and we’ve provided plenty of signposts to training and resources. Don’t forget… if you’re looking to upskill your team with the green claims landscape - you can also check out our 3 hour Greenwashing 101 short training course via our Sustainable Marketing Training Hub. ________________________________________________________________________ About us… We help Marketers save the planet. 🌍 Join the Marketers and organisations who have signed our manifesto, engage with our newsletter and training and, work with us to communicate sustainability more effectively. Sign our Sustainable Marketer Manifesto, work with us, and join us on our mission. Get in touch to chat. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

In this episode of the Can Marketing Save the Planet? podcast, we continue on our navigating green claims and greenwashing mini-series speaking with Katie Wetherall, a lawyer at ClientEarth about the brilliant work they do and taking a deep dive into the world of plastics, packaging and recycling. It’s no secret that marketing tactics in this area are long overdue a review. Clever marketing can mislead consumers with what are essentially false sustainability claims - particularly, when one takes into account the bigger picture and lifecycle of the product they appear on. Katie shares with us her insights from legal actions ClientEarth has taken against major corporations such as BP, Total Energies and KLM for misleading claims. In the case of KLM, she explains, “the Dutch court ruled that their claims about the sustainability of flying were misleading and in fact the judge said they painted a far too rosier picture about these kind of high emission activities and the company's compliance with things like the Paris Agreement.” A lot of Katie’s work focuses on greenwashing legal actions and increasingly the area of plastics and consumer goods. The reality of plastic recycling is woeful, Katie shares, “only 9% of all plastic ever produced has been recycled, yet companies continue to label products as "100% recyclable, and even in the UK which has got quite an established sophisticated waste management system the stats hover at around 55%. So I think as an organisation, we argue that that green loop, (sometimes it's a triangle), but that circular symbol, gives a misleading impression of the circularity of plastic.” We go on to talk about the many different challenges of single use plastic; packaging, descriptors and labelling which we see everywhere on products across our everyday lives. Using green symbols and imagery is an area that Katie advises, “I would discourage Marketers from putting the recyclability of a product at the forefront of its marketing, because this is a process they have no control over and which statistics suggest does not work.” There is a lot of great insight and advice shared in this episode which will apply to a lot of organisations, Marketers and products. Tune in as we talk to Katie about: The problem with recycling symbols and should they even be allowed when they don’t guarantee recyclability? The need for Marketers to consider the green claims they are making across the lifecycle of their products. The need to prioritise transparency Shifting to reusable packaging models – not relying on broken recycling systems Supporting people to make informed decisions How greenhushing doesn’t solve the problem   For more information about ClientEarth and the great work they do - visit https://www.clientearth.org/ And, if you’re looking to upskill your team with the green claims landscape - be sure to check out our 3 hour Greenwashing 101 short training course via our Sustainable Marketing Training Hub. One more episode in this mini-series to follow, talking ‘agency side’ with Fanclub PR. Stay tuned.   ________________________________________________________________________ About us… We help Marketers save the planet. 🌍 Join the Marketers and organisations who have signed our manifesto, engage with our newsletter and training and, work with us to communicate sustainability more effectively. Sign our Sustainable Marketer Manifesto, work with us, and join us on our mission. Get in touch to chat. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.     Episode 102: ‘Navigating Greenwashing and Green Claims - 4-Part Mini Series Part 3 - Katie-Scarlett Wetherall, Lawyer, ClientEarth    

In this episode, the second of our greenwashing mini-series we chat to Guy Parker, Chief Executive of the UK’s Advertising Standards Authority (ASA), about green claims and the role of responsible advertising in sustainability. Guy explains that the ASA’s mission is to, “make sure that ads are legal, decent, honest and truthful. We care about ads not misleading people, not harming them, not offending them and being socially responsible.” Guy highlights that with rising concerns about climate change, the ASA is focused on environmental claims balancing the need for businesses to communicate sustainability efforts without misleading consumers. We discuss the line between greenwashing (exaggerated or false claims) and greenhushing (staying silent due to fear of backlash), and how Marketers can absolutely tread the middle ground between the two. Guy emphasises how businesses should communicate sustainability progress— modestly and precisely, “being a bit more modest in the claims and being a bit more kind of real world in terms of what this means for your customers and your prospective customers, can actually go a very long way.” Focus should be on tangible, near-term actions rather than distant net-zero targets. Most greenwashing isn’t intentional - it stems from lack of education and understanding. Guy points out that Marketers must know the rules and follow the guidance, (ASA’s codes, CMA’s Green Claims Code), collaborate cross-functionally with sustainability teams to ensure accuracy and make use of the breadth of ASA resources (rulings, guidance, and free training), to avoid pitfalls. There is information and knowledge out there for everyone and it’s all very accessible. Guy’s message is clear, businesses must keep talking about sustainability, but do so, responsibly. Tune in as we talk to Guy about: The green claims and advertising landscape. The need for organisations to be transparent and share their sustainability journeys. Why less is more when it comes to green claims - specific, evidence-backed claims are safer. Keep communicating, silence helps no one - we need to talk about it to drive change. Where greenwashing complaints can come from and, how to make a complaint. Why strategies and processes are needed. What resources and guidance are available to support Marketers and organisations considering making green claims.   For resources check out the ASA’s CAP Advertising Guidance, their training and their recent rulings - all of which can be found here. And, if you’re looking to upskill your team with the green claims landscape - be sure to check out our 3 hour Greenwashing 101 short training course via our Sustainable Marketing Training Hub. More in this mini-series to follow with conversations still to come with ClientEarth and Fanclub PR. Stay tuned.   ________________________________________________________________________ About us… We help Marketers save the planet. 🌍 Join the Marketers and organisations who have signed our manifesto, engage with our newsletter and training and, work with us to communicate sustainability more effectively. Sign our Sustainable Marketer Manifesto, work with us, and join us on our mission. Get in touch to chat. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

In our 100th episode of Can Marketing Save the Planet we kick off our ‘4 part mini-series on greenwashing and navigating green claims’ with Cecilia Parker-Aranha, Director of Consumer Protection at the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA). Cecilia joined us back in 2021, and so it was great to have her join us again to discuss the evolving landscape to provide an up to date understanding of where we are with greenwashing. Since the publication of the Green Claims Code in 2021 significant progress has been made however, challenges remain. Cecilia tells us that since we last spoke, the CMA has taken action against misleading claims in sectors like fashion and fast-moving consumer goods prompting businesses to reassess their environmental messaging. She highlights how technology can be used to aid businesses in tracking supply chain data, but the human part remains crucial to ensure claims are accurate and not misleading. We discuss how consumers are increasingly distrustful of green claims and how now is the time for organisations to focus on making sure what they are saying is accurate and evidence-based. Cecilia again explains that the CMA’s role is not to punish but to guide organisations toward compliance through education and support. However, under the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act, everyone needs to be aware that the CMA can now impose fines directly and these can be up to 10% of global turnover for breaches and - breaches including misleading green claims. Cecilia explains, “so from April this year (2025), we'll have the power to reach our own decisions on whether or not a business has breached consumer law. The second thing is that at the moment there aren't any financial penalties for breaches of consumer law, at least those pursued through the civil route. Again, from April this year, it will be possible for the CMA to impose financial penalties on businesses who break the law.” Cecilia stresses the importance of collaboration between marketing and sustainability teams to ensure there is clear, accurate communication. She recommends that Marketers test claims with consumers to avoid misinterpretation and ensure transparency. Sharing so much knowledge and advice in this episode Cecilia believes Marketers should start by measuring their impact and build claims from solid evidence. And, this isn’t just for those organisations operating in the UK, and as many organisations sell into other countries, she advises ensuring alignment with global standards like the EU Green Claims Directive. Tune in and listen as we talk to Cecilia about: The current green claims landscape as we progress through 2025 What organisations and Marketers should be thinking about when considering making green claims Where to go to stay informed and up to date Digital products passports and how they align with green claims The use of technology in supporting green claims The need for Marketing teams to work cross-functionally Why it’s important for organisations to talk about what they are doing   For resources check out the CMA’s Green Claims Code and on their website you’ll find lots of information, such as - what has happened in cases and what advice and agreements were reached. These real world cases further provide guidance on the changes organisations need to consider to ensure they are being responsible when making green claims. More in this mini-series to follow with conversations with the ASA, ClientEarth and Fanclub PR. Stay tuned. ________________________________________________________________________ About us… We help Marketers save the planet. 🌍 Join the Marketers and organisations who have signed our manifesto, engage with our newsletter and training and, work with us to communicate sustainability more effectively. Sign our Sustainable Marketer Manifesto, work with us, and join us on our mission. Get in touch to chat. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

Round and round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows… and that’s a really good thing if it means it doesn’t end up in the unmanageable waste landscape we humans have created for ourselves. In our 99th episode we’re joined by Neda Hashemi and Andrés Olivia from the Ellen MacArthur Foundation where we explore why Marketers are key facilitators in the transition to a circular economy. Neda and Andrés talk about their latest research and explain the different ways that the circular economy can future-proof and scale businesses, drive efficiencies, reduce emissions and help to ease the burden we place on biodiversity and the planet. Andrés explains that their are many different ways to implement circularity, “the first one is about selling access rather than ownership for example, a washing machine, what if you rented it instead of owning it? We also have monetising of product through life extension for example selling repair services. And finally, and this is the last resort, once products are no longer fit use, reuse or repair can they can be recycled and turned into new products?” Neda and Andrés share how B2B is leading the charge when it comes to circularity, but in the B2C world, whilst there is plenty of innovation - it is not scaling at the levels required. A reason for this Neda explains is “the demand isn’t happening because behaviours are not consistent.”  She goes to say, “don't be intimidated by the concept of the circular economy and circularity, all need to do is understand the simple premise of what the business model entails, which again, they have been doing forever and inject their creativity and human understanding into it. And then the potential is huge for them to engage with it.” It’s not rocket science, when you remove the word circular economy and focus on what people value and want, then there’s plenty of scope to unlock the opportunities. Tune in to hear us talking about how: Bringing in the marketing function as problem solvers and the key communication interface between the brand, the organisation and the consumer is key. The role of education and how Marketers are critical in driving this. The key areas coming out of the research including their “Four Action Pathways” How Marketers can make circularity desirable, irresistible and remove the barriers for adoption. The ‘Why’ we need to build a circular economy. How focusing on upstream demand should bring in multiple perspectives to take the innovation forward and bring everybody together to organize themselves around the common objectives. Metrics – from circular sales to increased loyalty and lifetime transaction values. Core resilience of the business is often not brought into the business case for circularity. For more information and resources visit the Ellen MacArthur Foundation The Marketing Playbook for a Circular Economy you’ll find here. ________________________________________________________________________ About us… We help Marketers save the planet. 🌍 Join the Marketers and organisations who have signed our manifesto, engage with our newsletter and training and, work with us to communicate sustainability more effectively. Sign our Sustainable Marketer Manifesto, work with us, and join us on our mission. Get in touch to chat. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“It’s fair and square - every square essentially helps you hit three ESG metrics with a single product.” In this episode of the Can Marketing Save the Planet podcast, we are joined by Rob Cobbold, Founder and CEO, of the brilliant organisation, Native - a platform which allows people, groups, communities and organisations of all sizes to protect the planet – one square at a time! The platform enables the purchase of ‘squares’ from a range of terrestrial or marine habitats including rainforests, mangroves or coral reefs. Rob talks us through why he founded Native, “we’re an evolution I suppose on binary one-dimensional carbon markets. We're trying to do things with a bit more transparency, a bit more holistically, and a bit more fairly as well.” We discuss the fact that when it comes to protecting the environment, how we are all responsible. We discuss the importance of decarbonisation, but also the reality that carbon isn’t tangible, you can’t see it and you can’t connect to it and this creates a challenge when it comes to understanding and engagement. Rob tells us that we, (humans) have a very ‘left-brain bias’, “we like to break things down into their parts so that we can manipulate them, control them and make use of them.” We talk about the unique features of Native and the fact that you can view your square(s) in real time, watching them grow and evolve. However, Rob also talks about the fact that you can also see the reality of what is happening in the places you’re investing in… - “in the map of our first project in the Solomon Islands, you can see the forest, and you can also see active logging, just 50 kilometers away.” It’s both exciting and sobering. Rob has so may plans for Native when it comes to how people and organisations can get involved; from everyone being able to drive positive impact and take action - seeing the impact of their investment in real-time, through to employee engagement programmes, gifting, gamification and overall creating a big talking point - bringing friends, family and partners on the journey with you. From as little as just £3 per square - there is no way you won’t be motivated to buy a square or two (or more) by the end of this episode. Indeed, we’re already ‘in’ –and so if you invest, do let us know! Tune in and listen as we talk to Rob about: Native – the platform, it’s purpose and why it’s truly ‘fair and square’ Why it is so important that we all take responsibility about protecting the planet How Native enables organisations to hit the environmental (E), Social (S) and Governance (G) all in one solution Why transparency and fairness is critically important How going beyond carbon brings impact to life - (literally) The need for better stories and engagement The need to measure impact in different ways The need for better more accessible funding across a broader range of projects For more information about this nature based solution visit Native And to connect with Rob to find out more and discuss your ‘squares’ - connect via LinkedIn. ________________________________________________________________________ About us… We help Marketers save the planet. 🌍 Join the Marketers and organisations who have signed our manifesto, engage with our newsletter and training and, work with us to communicate sustainability more effectively. Sign our Sustainable Marketer Manifesto, work with us, and join us on our mission. Get in touch to chat. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.

“The more people bring AI in-house the better it will be for the environment”… “You’ve got to spend the money to take advantage of the opportunity – and you can say but AI is free, but it isn't - that's just bad AI”… “AI allows us to do the art of marketing without marketing” … A slightly longer episode this week, but boy is it an interesting one! In this episode of Can Marketing Save the Planet we bring together two of the biggest conversations in the world today; AI and sustainability to find out if they are friend or foe. Joined by tech futurist Dan Södergren and sustainability guy, Russ Avery, we discuss questions around, is business and society responsible enough to use AI? Why AI policies a must for organisations - and, how can Marketers use AI in an informed and meaningful way? As with any big subject matter we jump straight into the challenges and opportunities. When it comes to challenges we of course go straight to the environmental impact where Russ explains, “AI -driven data centers are projected to consume 90 terawatt hours annually by 2026, which will be a 10 -fold increase from 2022 levels, which is only three years ago. And for context, that's equivalent to the energy uses of some entire countries.” Only part of the story - but something we should all be aware of as we all look to AI and how it will increasingly become more prevalent in our lives. Dan agrees that energy is definitely something we need to be aware of, but more importantly, “it's more the fact of what you do with it. En-masse if you just take it out by itself and you add it on to the marketing you're doing, then yes, by its very nature, you're going to be creating more problems because you are going to be using more energy.  But on the whole, he believes AI can make the world a better place (caveat - if the good guys use it). The ‘fifth industrial revolution’ also comes up a lot in this conversation, but you’ll need to tune in to find out more. We talk about the need for more education, upskilling and awareness. Training is another area that we keep coming back to. Russ talks about the need for education and using AI responsibly, “we should not be using AI for socially useless mundane purposes’ – Take note Marketers! Dan agrees that education and understanding is critical if we want to be more productive and less wasteful. Both share hints, tips and ways we (Marketers) can all be using AI more effectively.   Russ believes that Marketers can use AI effectively if they “lean into their curiosity and understand the foundations of what you are using”, he goes on to explain, “I would just encourage Marketers to learn about the fundamentals of AI because it can only benefit your understanding how these things work and how they actually came about”. Dan talks about the need for better prompt engineering, an understanding of language models and, the need for culture change, moving away from specialisation and IP to considering, “how does your organisation incentivise not just the use of AI, but actually incentivise the best practice use of AI? Say I've created a great prompt, what's in it for me to share that knowledge with the rest of the team? Now, that's something we've never really had.” There is simply too much in this episode to summarise here in a way that does it justice, you’ll just need to tune in and get your pens and pads ready….and then click on the links in the show notes to take advantage of the offers from Dan…we certainly will be. Tune in and listen as we talk to Dan and Russ about: The challenges and opportunities around AI The ethics and dilemma - Humans vs AI in the workplace Data with intelligence can help us do all the things we’ve been talking about for 20 years The need to train and upskill your employees The purpose of organisations and business The green tech revolution The need to understand how we use AI What skills and knowledge marketers need to have to use AI effectively The need for organisations to have AI policies Small language models vs. large language model and the benefits that can come from that for organisations How marketers, agencies, organisations can use AI in the RIGHT way A truly informative and thought provoking episode. Tune in, enjoy it, share it - and of course, share your comments. For all the links / offers Dan shares: The AI Marketing Course  https://www.letslevelup.app/course/TheAIMarketingCourse  200 off:      AIMarketing200OFF The Prompt Engineering Course  https://www.letslevelup.app/course/PromptEngineering  To access Dan’s books visit Dan Sodergren #FutureOfWork use the code TRAININGTHANKYOU  and get any one book downloadable for free. Books here: How to effectively use AI to market your business in one day a month THE NEW INTELLIGENCE The 5th Industrial Revolution https://dansodergren.medium.com/the-free-first-chapter-of-how-to-thrive-and-survive-in-2025-e4518b3525ec And free to download at www.aileadershipcourse.com And here is an audio version for free if you would like that…  The Free First Chapter Of “How to Thrive and Survive in 2025” A #leader’s guide to the times of #ai. You’ll find Dan on LinkedIn here You’ll find Russ on LinkedIn here ________________________________________________________________________________ About us… We help Marketers save the planet. 🌍 Join the Marketers and organisations who have signed our manifesto, engage with our newsletter and training and, work with us to communicate sustainability more effectively. Sign our Sustainable Marketer Manifesto, work with us, and join us on our mission. Get in touch to chat. You’ll find the Podcast on all the usual pod platforms - and also on The Global Player and via The Marketing Society. If you love it, do share it and spread the word. Talking about climate change and the role we play is one of the most important things we can do. So join the conversation. We’re all in this together. Our podcasts are recorded purely via online conferencing platforms, we apologise for any minor sound quality issues.