Moving from Product Partnerships to Revenue: Jira Cooley on Owning the Number

In this episode of Between Product and Partnerships, Cristina Flaschen sits down with Jira Cooley, Snowflake Partner Lead at GrowthLoop, to discuss his journey through product and technology partnerships and his decision to move closer to the revenue side of the business. Along the way, they explore what it takes to build technical fluency without an engineering background, why asking better questions is often more valuable than having all the answers

For years, SaaS pricing was relatively simple. Build the product, sell seats, and scale. AI is changing that equation.In this episode of Between Product and Partnerships, Cristina Flaschen sits down with Roee Hartuv, Sr. Pricing Advisor & Head of GTM Expertise at Willingness to Pay, to discuss why AI is forcing software companies to rethink pricing from the ground up. As AI introduces real marginal costs, unpredictable usage patterns, and new customer expectations, many of the pricing models that defined SaaS are no longer enough.

AI models let anyone "vibe code" an integration from 0 to 90% overnight, but scaling that final 10% is where most projects hit a wall. In this episode, former Knak VP of Product Rod Moshfeghi joins Cristina Flaschen to break down why the rise of the citizen developer actually makes rigorous systems design and long-term maintenance more critical than ever.

In this episode of Between Product and Partnerships, Cristina Flaschen talks with Martin Scholz, founder of CEG Consult, about why most partnership initiatives miss the mark, and what actually separates transactional deals from true, strategic relationships. Drawing on more than 20 years of partnership experience across startups, scale-ups, and enterprises, Martin cuts through the noise to explain why partnerships fail when they lack clear alignment, why "giving to get" can create toxic dynamics, and how to identify which partners actually deserve your resources.For more insights on partnerships, ecosystems, and integrations, visit www.pandium.com

In this episode of Between Product and Partnerships, Cristina Flaschen sits down with Jenn Steele, CEO of SoundGTM, to pull back the curtain on why most SaaS partnerships collapse.Jenn draws on her experience as a former CMO to explain the internal perspective of leaders asked to support partnership launches without proper lead time. The conversation dives into the common pitfalls of "pre-launching" integrations that aren't ready. It also covers the dangers of concentration risk with large platform partners as traditional outbound sales models struggle.Throughout the episode, Jenn emphasizes a consistent theme: Partnerships are built on human relationships, but they survive on operational clarity and consistent enablement.‍Key topicsThe Resource Gap: Why Marketing and Partners Clash‍Partnership teams often operate in a silo and call on marketing for last-minute press releases without providing dedicated budget. Jenn explains why this misalignment leads to internal frustration.The Disconnect Between Revenue Goals and Budget‍Many companies expect a significant percentage of their pipeline to come from partnerships without allocating a corresponding percentage of their go-to-market budget. Jenn warns against expecting outsized gains from minimal resource investment.The 80/20 Rule of Partner Portfolios‍Most partner programs are top-heavy. Jenn discusses how to audit a portfolio to find the 20% of partners producing value while moving on from the rest.Operationalizing the "Shiny Object"‍Partnership leaders are often "people people" who are great at starting relationships but may struggle with the administrative details of ops. Jenn highlights the need for systems that keep partners engaged long after the initial announcement.Concentration Risk and "Big Guy" Partnerships‍Hitching a small startup’s wagon to a giant like Salesforce or HubSpot is a high-stakes game. Jenn explains why being at the mercy of a larger partner’s API can leave a small company vulnerable to sudden changes.‍Episode highlights‍00:40 — Jenn’s journey from "Early HubSpot" to CEO2:19 — The friction between marketing leaders and partner teams04:02 — Where should partnerships live? (Sales vs. Marketing)06:35 — The reality of technical dependencies and API downtime08:40 — The cautionary tale of the two-year "pre-launched" integration12:15 — Primary failure modes including goals and internal resources16:23 — Why everyone is focused on partnerships right now18:36 — Managing expectations for partner-sourced revenue22:31 — How to keep partners excited through consistent enablement28:40 — The danger of concentration risk for small companies--For more insights on partnerships, ecosystems, and integrations, visit www.pandium.com

In this episode of Between Product and Partnerships, Cristina Flaschen sits down with Stephanie Neill, Head of Product at Stripe, to explore what’s actually changing in product development in the age of AI, and what isn’t.Stephanie draws on experience across government, Twitch, and Stripe to explain why the pressure to “just use AI” often leads teams in the wrong direction. Instead, she makes the case for grounding every decision in the problem to be solved, not the technology being used. The conversation dives into where AI is genuinely useful today, where it still falls short, and how teams can use it to move faster without compromising quality or trust.They also explore the operational realities behind the hype, from messy, unreliable data to the risks of deploying AI in high-stakes environments like payments and tax. Throughout, Stephanie emphasizes a consistent theme: AI can accelerate good product thinking, but it cannot replace it.Who we sat down withStephanie Neill is Head of Product at Stripe, where she leads teams focused on payments infrastructure and tax-related products. Her career spans e-commerce, public sector innovation with the United States Digital Service, and creator monetization at Twitch.Stephanie brings expertise in: Applying product thinking in high-stakes environments like government and financial systems  Building platforms that enable businesses and creators to earn revenue  Scaling product teams across complex, data-dependent domains  Navigating emerging technologies like AI within regulated, trust-sensitive systems Key topicsWhy “use AI” is the wrong starting pointTeams are often pushed to adopt AI without a clear problem in mind. The right approach is unchanged: start with the user problem, then evaluate whether AI meaningfully improves the outcome.Where AI actually works todayAI is most effective in accelerating discovery and iteration, helping teams research faster, test ideas, and explore solution spaces without heavy upfront investment.AI as a tool for reducing product riskProduct development is fundamentally about reducing risk. AI increases the number of iterations teams can run, allowing them to be wrong more often and converge on better solutions faster.The reality of data as a limiting factorEven the most advanced models are constrained by messy, incomplete, or externally controlled data. In domains like tax, poor data quality becomes a major blocker to reliable AI systems.Why human judgment still defines production readinessDespite rapid progress, AI outputs still require careful review. Especially in financial systems, the cost of being wrong is too high to remove humans from the loop.Episode highlights 11:00 — The industry-wide pressure to “just use AI” 13:30 — AI’s role in product discovery and rapid iteration 16:20 — Automating repetitive work with internal tools at Stripe 19:00 — What happens to entry-level roles in an AI-driven world 22:30 — Why data quality is the biggest limiter for AI systems 25:10 — The gap between AI hype and production reality 32:00 — How Stripe evaluates risk before shipping AI-powered features 35:10 — Staying grounded by continuously redefining the problem--For more insights on partnerships, ecosystems, and integrations, visit www.pandium.com

In this episode of Between Product and Partnerships, Biljana Pecelj joins Cristina Flaschen to explain how smaller teams successfully ship integrations with larger platform partners. She makes the case that leveraging usage data and performance metrics is the key to proving your integration's value, giving you the necessary influence to move up a major partner's priority list.Biljana shares lessons from her experience managing integrations at Hootsuite during major platform shifts, including the rise of Instagram Business APIs and the emergence of new features like Stories that didn’t always come with immediate API support. She also details the process of aligning internal stakeholders to ensure integration features actually ship despite shifting external APIs.The conversation also covers the operational side of integrations, this includes why observability needs to be built early, how teams detect silent failures before customers do, and how to structure internal alignment when integration work touches engineering, legal, partnerships, and revenue.Who we sat down withBiljana Pecelj is a Principal Product Manager at Ledgy with deep experience building integrations inside platform-heavy environments. She has worked extensively on partnership-driven product initiatives where execution speed depends on navigating both technical constraints and external partner relationships.Biljana brings expertise in:Building integrations in environments where APIs and features evolve asynchronouslyDesigning for observability and proactive monitoringNavigating asymmetric partner relationshipsAligning roadmap priorities across product, partnerships, legal, and engineeringManaging tradeoffs between beta opportunities and engineering capacityKey TopicsWhy integration product work is relationship workTechnical execution matters, but alignment with partners determines whether integrations actually ship and scale.Building in ecosystems you don’t controlAPIs change. Features launch without endpoints. Roadmaps shift. Successful teams anticipate uncertainty rather than assume stability.The importance of observability from day oneSilent failures are common in integrations. Without monitoring, teams often learn about outages from customers instead of systems.Roadmap tradeoffs when beta opportunities ariseNew partner features can require immediate shifts in engineering priorities. Negotiation and resource reallocation become core product skills.M&A and integration complexityBrand consolidation rarely means backend integration. Teams often inherit layered systems that remain technically independent long after acquisition.Episode Highlights01:55 – How integration product management differs from core product work04:40 – Navigating power imbalances with large platform partners07:15 – Using data to strengthen partner conversations10:30 – Building observability when resources are limited13:45 – Handling silent integration failures17:50 – Managing beta features and roadmap shifts21:30 – Aligning cross-functional teams around integration priorities24:45 – Why relationships accelerate integration execution28:10 – Lessons learned from building inside platform ecosystems--For more insights on partnerships, ecosystems, and integrations, visit www.pandium.com

Integrations look deceptively simple until they become the backbone of your business. In this episode of Between Product and Partnerships, Pandium CEO Cristina Flaschen sits down with Scott Lavery, Senior Product Manager at Arkestro. They unpack what really happens when integrations shift from a "nice to have" feature to something the company can't function without.Scott shares hard-earned lessons from a decade in B2B SaaS, covering sectors from martech to procurement. He discusses the headache of inheriting messy stacks and why iPaaS tools often hide long-term costs. The conversation also explores how integration work fundamentally changes what it means to be a product manager. Together, they dig into common failure modes and the tough tradeoffs junior PMs face when they’re "volun-told" to own integrations.Who we sat down withScott Lavery is a Senior Product Manager at Arkestro. With over ten years of experience in B2B SaaS, he has repeatedly found himself responsible for integrations, often without ever intending to specialize in them.Scott brings expertise in:Unwinding complex iPaaS-driven environments.Designing integrations built to be "set and forget."Managing third-party dependencies alongside specific scale constraints.Advocating for pragmatic, cost-aware strategies.Key TopicsWhy integration PM work is fundamentally different Integration success is defined by invisibility. Unlike standard features, value is found in reliability and trust rather than how often a user clicks a button.The hidden costs of low-code and iPaaS tools Teams often end up writing code blocks inside "no-code" tools. We discuss how pricing models can distort architectural decisions and where velocity eventually hits a wall.What to do when you inherit a messy integration stack Practical advice for PMs walking into undocumented systems filled with inherited workflows and vendor dependencies they can’t control.Episode Highlights01:48 - How most PMs “fall into” owning integrations03:58 - Why integration metrics flip traditional product thinking on its head06:31 - Contextual success metrics: Why volume is not the same as value08:21 - Navigating ecosystems without becoming a domain admin11:18 - Why API docs lie and customers ignore your design intent15:37 - Warning signs of an unhealthy iPaaS environment19:05 - Silent failures and the pain of hearing about outages from customers23:45 - The code-block paradox in low-code platforms31:52 - Scott’s playbook for PMs inheriting integrationsKey TakeawaysGreat integrations are designed to disappear Successful integrations are rarely touched after the initial setup. In this space, reliability is a far more important metric than user engagement.Metrics are contextual, not universalA monthly sync can be just as vital as one that runs every five minutes. Frequency alone does not signal success.You can’t abstract away real-world usage API contracts rarely reflect reality. No tool removes the need to understand how customers actually use systems like NetSuite or Salesforce.Low-code tools often trade speed for long-term pain Teams save time early but spend years optimizing around pricing models and managing fragile logic.Inherited workflows is a scalability risk If only one person understands the system, it is already brittle. This is a massive liability once customers are live.Silent failures erode trust fastest Learning about outages from customers is a major failure. Proactive monitoring and clear communication are bas

How do you turn mission into products that actually work?In this episode of Between Product and Partnerships, Pandium CEO Cristina Flaschen sits down with product leader Jacqueline Karlin to unpack how mission-driven thinking translates into real-world execution across vastly different scales.From small business lending at Amazon, to global expansion on Alexa, to early conversational commerce at WhatsApp, Jacqueline shares concrete examples of how anchoring on customer problems shapes better decisions, especially when navigating new technologies like AI and agentic commerce. The conversation goes deep on how product teams move from conviction to action, turning “why” into repeatable, defensible “how.”Who we sat down withJacqueline Karlin is a senior product leader with experience building and scaling products at Amazon (Lending & Alexa), WhatsApp, PayPal, Expedia, and more. Her work spans financial inclusion, commerce, AI-powered interfaces, and international platform expansion.Across roles, Jacqueline has focused on:Working backwards from real customer problemsLaunching and localizing products globallyBuilding trust-first experiences in regulated, high-stakes domains like payments and commerceToday, she’s deeply engaged in the evolution of agentic commerce and how AI agents are changing how consumers discover, decide, and transact.Key topicsMission-driven product building and defining “why” How Jacqueline’s personal mission shaped her career choices, and why understanding what motivates you as a product leader is critical to building products with long-term impact.Specific use cases Jacqueline has worked on Real examples from Amazon Lending, Alexa’s international expansion, and WhatsApp’s early commerce tooling, showing how different customer problems emerge at different layers of scale.Getting from “why” to “how” How strong teams translate mission into execution through hypotheses, customer conversations, localization, experimentation, and fast feedback (without chasing trends or shipping for novelty’s sake).Episode highlights02:20 — Choosing roles based on mission, not momentum 06:36 — Learning from small business sellers and reshaping lending products 11:34 — What it really takes to launch Alexa in new countries21:36 — Early lessons from conversational commerce on WhatsApp 22:50 — Defining agentic commerce and where it’s already showing up 25:12 — Why explainability matters when AI touches money 29:23 — Using hypotheses to move from intuition to executionKey takeaways1. Mission creates clarity when decisions get hard Mission acts as a decision filter, helping product leaders prioritize the right problems and navigate tradeoffs with confidence.2. Customer insight beats assumptions at every scale Direct conversations with users consistently surfaced constraints and opportunities that dashboards alone couldn’t reveal.3. “Why” must survive contact with reality Strong teams treat ideas as hypotheses, testing and refining them quickly based on real feedback.4. Global products are built locally Successful international launches depend on cultural relevance, local partners, and thoughtful defaults.5. Trust is foundational in AI-driven commerce Explainability and transparency become core requirements as agents take on transactional responsibility.For more insights on partnerships, ecosystems, and integrations, visit www.pandium.com

In this episode of Between Product and Partnerships, Cristina Flaschen speaks with Mike Gelber, Chief Product Officer at Impiricus, about his career path and the experiences that shaped his approach to product leadership in healthcare. Mike’s background spans finance, ad tech, and healthcare, and his move into product reflects a steady pull toward roles that combine technical depth with proximity to real users. Throughout the conversation, he shares how those experiences influenced the way he approaches product decisions, partnerships, and growth in a regulated environment.From Finance to Product ThinkingMike began his career at JP Morgan, where he quickly gravitated toward building tools that made work more efficient. Teaching himself to automate tasks introduced him to software development and revealed the leverage technology could provide. That curiosity led him into ad tech, where working closely with customers helped him connect system design with real usage. Over time, product became the natural intersection between building technology and understanding how people actually work.Why Founding a Company Accelerated His GrowthStarting a company brought Mike closer to customers and everyday decision-making. Choices carried immediate consequences, which sharpened his sense of focus and sequencing. The experience also exposed him to areas of the business that are often distant from product roles, shaping a broader understanding of how products are built, sold, and sustained over time.Lessons from Building and Exiting LassoMike reflects on building Lasso and guiding it through growth before its acquisition by IQVIA. A defining lesson from that journey was the importance of validating demand early. Proving value through direct execution helped guide product direction and informed how he now thinks about product-market fit. That experience reinforced the importance of grounding decisions in real usage rather than assumptions.Joining ImpiricusAfter the acquisition, Mike joined Impiricus as Chief Product Officer. He initially questioned whether SMS could be an effective channel in healthcare. Spending time with the product in real-world settings changed that perspective, particularly as he observed how clinicians interacted with it during day-to-day work. Those experiences helped clarify the product’s role in supporting healthcare providers.Defining Success in Healthcare ProductMike describes success at Impiricus through outcomes and experience. Pharmaceutical partners measure impact through prescribing behavior, while healthcare providers encounter fewer barriers when supporting patients. The most meaningful signals come from moments where the product quietly fits into existing workflows and reduces friction without drawing attention to itself.Timing, Integration, and RelevanceThe conversation returns often to timing. Mike explains how Impiricus uses data and integrations to engage healthcare providers when support is most relevant. This approach allows the product to fit naturally into clinical workflows, which is critical in environments where attention is limited.Looking AheadMike shares what’s next for Impiricus, including the launch of a new product called Ascend and continued momentum following recognition on Deloitte’s Fast 500 list. As the company grows, the focus remains on staying close to healthcare providers and maintaining the product principles that shaped its early success. Cristina closes the episode by reflecting on how Mike’s journey illustrates how product leadership evolves inside regulated industries.