#57: Stop Trying to Sleep Perfectly | David Samson

Robert Greene, author of The 48 Laws of Power, Mastery, and The Laws of Human Nature, nearly died of a stroke in 2018. It left him unable to type, so he spent the next seven years writing his new book, The Law of the Sublime, by hand. Michael speaks with Robert about what coming close to death did to his mind, why he believes humans need transcendent experiences as much as food and shelter, how comfort and old grudges keep our world small, and the everyday rituals he uses to wake back up to it. They discuss: (00:00) Cold open(00:59) The stroke(04:56) What nearly dying does to you(07:12) The book he waited 20 years to write(12:16) What is the sublime?(15:31) Finding amazement in his backyard(24:26) A need as deep as food(28:26) The lost rites of passage(33:18) How to make your own rituals(36:49) 40 minutes of meditation a day(45:37) What boredom is good for(50:31) How adults can slow down(53:36) Why nature matters(58:58) Choose discomfort(1:02:48) Death and the afterlife(1:07:26) Seven years writing by hand Get Robert's book, The Law of the Sublime: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/634294/the-law-of-the-sublime-by-robert-greene/ Sponsors:Base44: Get 30% off the Builder plan for your first year at https://base44.com/TWOPCT.MacroFactor: Download the MacroFactor app and use code TWOPCT for 14 days free. Visit Two Percent, the #1 health and wellness Substack newsletter: https://www.twopct.com Follow Michael:https://twitter.com/Michael_Easterhttps://instagram.com/michael_easter/https://linkedin.com/in/michael-easter-b208848/https://www.facebook.com/twopcthttps://tiktok.com/@michael_easter6 Host: Michael EasterExecutive Producer: Robbie HiserMusic: The Heater ManagerGraphics: Jackie Philips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Most of us were taught that getting in shape means more weight, more sweat, and more soreness. Strength coach Dan John has been lifting since 1965, and has coached everyone from first-time lifters to MVP professional athletes. He thinks most of us would do better with less. Michael speaks with Dan about being strong enough, simple tests he uses to check strength, why lifting three days a week is plenty for most people, what to buy for a home gym, and why every workout should end with a walk. They discuss: (00:00) What he got wrong about fitness at 30(03:55) Little and often over the long haul(06:10) How strong is strong enough?(10:45) What the simple tests reveal(13:35) Three numbers to check every day(16:02) Think in movements, not muscles(18:48) A workout anyone can start(23:26) How to make exercise a habit(25:43) Focus on simple health practices(27:42) 15 minutes a day, state records(30:34) Downsides of CrossFit and Orangetheory(32:39) A walk after every workout(34:58) What to buy for a home gym(39:12) The highest-return exercises(41:38) Where to start with his books Get Dan's books, including Easy Strength Omnibook: https://danjohnuniversity.com/bookstore Sponsors:Base44: Get 30% off the Builder plan for your first year at base44.com/TWOPCT.MacroFactor: Try MacroFactor free for 14 days in the Apple or Android app store with code TWOPCT.Vuori: Get 20% off your first purchase at vuori.com/TWOPCT. Exclusions apply. Visit Two Percent, the #1 health and wellness Substack newsletter: https://www.twopct.com Follow Michael:https://twitter.com/Michael_Easterhttps://instagram.com/michael_easter/https://linkedin.com/in/michael-easter-b208848/https://www.facebook.com/twopcthttps://tiktok.com/@michael_easter6 Host: Michael EasterExecutive Producer: Robbie HiserMusic: The Heater ManagerGraphics: Jackie Philips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Almost everyone carries a list of things they want to do in life, and almost nobody gets to it. Michael speaks with Ravi Gupta, author of The Invisible List, who went all in on one passion a year: powerlifting, screenwriting, surfing, tennis, the MCAT, and Italian cooking. He explains the four steps to develop your "invisible list," how to find the time to tackle it, why your passions make you a better human, why passions protect your health and brain, and why sucking at something has benefits. They cover: (00:00) Cold open(00:56) The wedding that started a quest(03:06) What is the invisible list?(04:49) Why we never tackle our life list(06:32) Hobbies aren't selfish(10:48) What he learned about learning(14:18) Four steps of the invisible list(18:39) Why he started with powerlifting(21:51) All gear, no idea(24:47) Tracking and sticking with it(30:36) Staying focused as a beginner(35:16) Why you have to suck at first(39:55) The friends you make(44:10) The MCAT as a brain marathon(48:34) One passion a year, even with kids(54:11) His numbers, and what's next Get Ravi's book, The Invisible List: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/800645/the-invisible-list-by-ravi-gupta/ Sponsors:Lagoon: Go to lagoonsleep.com/TWOPCT and take the 60-second sleep quiz to find your perfect pillow.Vuori: Get 20% off your first order at vuori.com/TWOPCT. Exclusions apply.MacroFactor: Download the MacroFactor app and use code TWOPCT for 14 days free. Visit Two Percent, the #1 health and wellness Substack newsletter: https://www.twopct.com Follow Michael:https://twitter.com/Michael_Easterhttps://instagram.com/michael_easter/https://linkedin.com/in/michael-easter-b208848/https://www.facebook.com/twopcthttps://tiktok.com/@michael_easter6 Host: Michael EasterExecutive Producer: Robbie HiserMusic: The Heater ManagerGraphics: Jackie Philips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We’ve made life so safe that most of us are out of practice at handling fear. Michael speaks with Coltan Scrivner about why being scared can be good for you. Scrivner, a psychologist at Arizona State University and author of Morbidly Curious, unpacks why humans are drawn to danger, the four kinds of morbid curiosity, why horror fans held up better in the pandemic, the sweet spot of fear, and when too much true crime starts to warp how dangerous the world feels. They discuss: (00:00) Cold open(01:03) Why we can't look away from crime and danger(06:59) The four kinds of morbid curiosity(12:44) Why everyone slows down for car wrecks(15:41) When true crime warps your world(20:53) Are horror fans less empathetic?(27:45) Why people root for killers(31:33) Why women love true crime(34:34) Michael's morbid curiosity score(37:04) The sweet spot of fear(40:04) Kids and scary movies(43:44) Is Dateline before bed bad?(46:07) Why clowns and creepy old women get us(50:37) Horror fans and the pandemic(53:08) The woman who can't feel fear(57:32) His scariest ghost hunt(1:02:33) Rapid fire: Best horror movies and villains Get Coltan's book, Morbidly Curious: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/705578/morbidly-curious-by-coltan-scrivner-phd/Take Coltan's Morbid Curiosity Test: https://www.coltanscrivner.com/morbid-curiosity-test Sponsors:MacroFactor: Download the MacroFactor app and use code TWOPCT for 14 days free.Vuori: Get 20% off your first order at vuori.com/TWOPCT. Exclusions apply. Visit Two Percent, the #1 health and wellness Substack newsletter: https://www.twopct.com Follow Michael:https://twitter.com/Michael_Easterhttps://instagram.com/michael_easter/https://linkedin.com/in/michael-easter-b208848/https://www.facebook.com/twopcthttps://tiktok.com/@michael_easter6 Host: Michael EasterExecutive Producer: Robbie HiserMusic: The Heater ManagerGraphics: Jackie Philips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael speaks with Robert Moor, author of On Trails and the new book In Trees, about what five months on the Appalachian Trail taught him about quitting and comfort, why going off trail sharpens your mind, how to get off what his tree climbing instructor calls the neurotic merry-go-round, and what old, wounded trees know about aging well. They discuss: (00:00) Cold open(00:42) Why he walked from Georgia to Maine(03:56) What a thru-hike does to your mind(08:53) Why most thru-hikers quit(12:39) Learning to love discomfort(17:51) What every trail has in common(24:00) Why go off trail(28:09) Getting outdoors in a city(30:14) His outdoor routine and thru-hike advice(35:55) The power of trees(42:07) A case for climbing trees(47:20) David Attenborough, bonsai and growing around wounds(56:33) What trees teach about aging Get Robert's book, In Trees: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/In-Trees/Robert-Moor/9781476739250 Sponsors:Vuori: Get 20% off your first order at vuori.com/TWOPCT. Exclusions apply.MacroFactor: Download the MacroFactor app and use code TWOPCT for 14 days free. Visit Two Percent, the #1 health and wellness Substack newsletter: https://www.twopct.com Follow Michael:https://twitter.com/Michael_Easterhttps://instagram.com/michael_easter/https://linkedin.com/in/michael-easter-b208848/https://www.facebook.com/twopcthttps://tiktok.com/@michael_easter6 Host: Michael EasterExecutive Producer: Robbie HiserMusic: The Heater ManagerGraphics: Jackie Philips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Up to half of Americans say their sleep is bad, and the rules for fixing it keep piling up. Michael speaks with David Samson, an evolutionary anthropologist at the University of Toronto and author of The Sleepless Ape, about why modern people sleep longer and better than hunter-gatherers yet worry about it far more, why our body clocks are the real mismatch, top sleep myths, and which sleep advice is worth following. They discuss: (00:00) Cold open(01:19) What is sleep?(08:30) Is there an epidemic of bad sleep?(15:50) Why study hunter-gatherer sleep(18:40) How the Hadza tribe sleeps(25:45) Bad sleep, happy sleepers(28:44) Evolutionary mismatch of sleep(32:40) Sleep is fine, the clock isn't(38:49) Does sleep anxiety matter?(43:02) Rapid fire: melatonin to curtains(47:08) What he does to sleep better Get David's book, The Sleepless Ape: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691259734/the-sleepless-ape Sponsors:Vuori: Get 20% off your first order at vuori.com/TWOPCT. Exclusions apply.MacroFactor: Download the MacroFactor app and use code TWOPCT for 14 days free. Visit Two Percent, the #1 health and wellness Substack newsletter: https://www.twopct.com Follow Michael:https://twitter.com/Michael_Easterhttps://instagram.com/michael_easter/https://linkedin.com/in/michael-easter-b208848/https://www.facebook.com/twopcthttps://tiktok.com/@michael_easter6 Host: Michael EasterExecutive Producer: Robbie HiserMusic: The Heater ManagerGraphics: Jackie Philips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Most of us avoid anything we might fail at. Michael speaks with Dr. Marcus Elliott about Misogi, his yearly challenge with about a 50 percent chance of failure, and why we overestimate the cost of failing, the benefits of Misogi, and what the data on elite athletes still can't measure. In addition to creating the modern Misogi, Marcus founded P3, the world's top sports science lab. They discuss: (00:00) Cold open(00:41) The Comfort Crisis introduction(02:20) What a Misogi is(05:37) The 50/50 rule(17:08) No training required(21:14) One perfect stroke(23:23) Why Misogi should be kooky(34:33) A modern rite of passage(37:51) The Misogi with his son(45:00) What the data can't see(56:42) Hundreds of reader Misogis(60:01) Not an Instagram moment(64:18) Don't let your life shrink Sponsors:Base44: Get 30% off the Builder plan for your first year at base44.com/TWOPCT.Vuori: Get 20% off your first order at vuori.com/TWOPCT. Exclusions apply.MacroFactor: Download the MacroFactor app and use it free for two weeks with code TWOPCT. Visit Two Percent, the #1 health and wellness Substack newsletter: https://www.twopct.com Follow Michael:https://twitter.com/Michael_Easterhttps://instagram.com/michael_easter/https://linkedin.com/in/michael-easter-b208848/https://www.facebook.com/twopcthttps://tiktok.com/@michael_easter6 Host: Michael EasterExecutive Producer: Robbie HiserMusic: The Heater ManagerGraphics: Jackie Philips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brian Driscoll became acting director of the FBI through what he believes was a clerical error in 2025. He was then asked to hand over the names of thousands of FBI employees who worked the January 6 investigations, which would have placed their careers and safety in jeopardy. He resisted and became a legend in the bureau. Brian told Michael what pushing back cost him, and why he calls "it is what it is" the most accepted form of surrender. They discussed: (00:00) Cold open(00:51) Becoming accidental FBI director(04:37) The illegal vetting call he failed(09:43) The request for the names of thousands of agents(18:04) From 9/11 to investigating the mob in NYC(32:22) Inside the elite Hostage Rescue Team(39:48) Lessons from elite teams: Be brilliant at the basics(49:05) How he protected the FBI(55:35) Fired with no reason given(59:44) How he led the FBI through crisis(66:48) Why standing up was worth being fired(71:41) The motorcycle journey afterward(76:56) Starting over Sponsors:Vuori: Get 20% off your first purchase at vuori.com/TWOPCT. Exclusions apply.MacroFactor: Try MacroFactor free for 14 days in the Apple or Android app store with code TWOPCT.Lagoon: Go to lagoonsleep.com/TWOPCT and take the 60-second sleep quiz to find your perfect pillow. Visit Two Percent, the #1 health and wellness Substack newsletter: https://www.twopct.com Follow Michael:https://twitter.com/Michael_Easterhttps://instagram.com/michael_easter/https://linkedin.com/in/michael-easter-b208848/https://www.facebook.com/twopcthttps://tiktok.com/@michael_easter6 Host: Michael EasterExecutive Producer: Robbie HiserMusic: The Heater ManagerGraphics: Jackie Philips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael speaks with Harvard evolutionary biologist Dan Lieberman, author of Fed Up. They talked about how humans didn't evolve to think about what to eat, the history of food and humans, what Dan learned trying popular diets for the book, biggest diet myths, and where Dan lands on exercise and weight loss. They covered: (00:00) Cold open(01:15) Humans never evolved to choose food(09:59) What the paleo diet gets wrong(14:32) Why we overeat(24:22) The hardest diet Dan tried(26:47) The case against the carnivore diet(33:40) How diets become like a religion(38:18) The protein craze: facts and myths(43:19) A sustainable approach to eating(50:03) Why nutrition headlines constantly change(54:44) Eat like a fox: A rule for nutrition(58:40) Does exercise help us lose weight? Get Dan's book, Fed Up: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/737466/fed-up-by-daniel-e-lieberman/ Sponsors:MacroFactor: Download the MacroFactor app and use it free for two weeks with code TWOPCT.Vuori: Get 20% off your first order at vuori.com/TWOPCT. Exclusions apply. Visit Two Percent, the #1 health and wellness Substack newsletter: https://www.twopct.com Follow Michael:https://twitter.com/Michael_Easterhttps://instagram.com/michael_easter/https://linkedin.com/in/michael-easter-b208848/https://www.facebook.com/twopcthttps://tiktok.com/@michael_easter6 Host: Michael EasterExecutive Producer: Robbie HiserMusic: The Heater ManagerGraphics: Jackie Philips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A lot of us think of quitting as a path to failure. Michael speaks with Lindsay Crouse, the former New York Times writer, editor and producer, lifelong distance runner and author of The Case for Quitting, about when perseverance backfires, how to tell meaningful suffering from the pointless kind, and the signs it's time to walk away. They discuss: (00:00) Cold open(00:54) Good sisu and bad sisu(06:30) The Olympic Trials goal she missed(13:12) When perseverance backfires(20:54) Where quitting pays off(24:22) Should you quit your job?(27:24) Type A minds and never enough(32:05) Where we quit too much(35:08) Who pays when you quit?(37:09) Bill Withers' golden toilet seat(42:23) Do we all need a rumspringa?(46:55) Why Lindsay left the Times(49:25) Signs it's time to quit Get Lindsay's book, The Case for Quitting: https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-case-for-quitting-the-surprising-benefits-of-opting-out-lindsay-crouse/5d08b49f272f6816Find Lindsay: https://www.instagram.com/lindsaycrouse/ Sponsors:Vuori: Get 20% off your first order at vuori.com/TWOPCT. Exclusions apply.MacroFactor: Download MacroFactor in the app store and use code TWOPCT for 14 days free. Visit Two Percent, the #1 health and wellness Substack newsletter: https://www.twopct.com Follow Michael:https://twitter.com/Michael_Easterhttps://instagram.com/michael_easter/https://linkedin.com/in/michael-easter-b208848/https://www.facebook.com/twopcthttps://tiktok.com/@michael_easter6 Host: Michael EasterExecutive Producer: Robbie HiserMusic: The Heater ManagerGraphics: Jackie Philips Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices