EP#112: A conversation about rethinking reform with Andrew Podger AO

On this episode, Colonel Jennifer Harris from the Australian Army gives us a masterclass in managing change in complex organisations, based on her experience with the Army’s Digital Twin.Change can be difficult – as individuals, we prefer stability and predictability. Particularly when working in large organisations, it can be both an opportunity and a great challenge to align everyone to achieve a common change goal. But the Australian Army’s ongoing Digital Twin project showcases how it can be done successfully.On this episode of Work with Purpose, Colonel Jennifer Harris explores how the Army, in response to the Defence Strategic Review, established a system that would enable the organisation to rapidly identify risks to warfighting and future capability – the Army’s Digital Twin. Together with host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, Jen talks about the intricacies of managing change at this scale and what theories and frameworks helped her keep people at the centre of transformation.Key tips:Working on big projects requires you to iterate all the time – it is a live activity.Whilst tools and applications are important for any transformation to succeed, you need to focus on the people who will use them. People don’t maliciously resist change – they’re just invested in the current system. Shifting mental models can take time but is worth the investment.Show notes:The case for a military Spatial Digital Twin | Australian Army Research CentreNational Defence: Defence Strategic Review 2023 | Australian Government: DefenceBerkana Two Loops model | Innovation UnitSystems change | Observatory of Public Sector Innovation Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jim Betts, Secretary of the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts, talks about shaping his role as APS CALD Champion and why he wants leaders to take action to achieve equality.Our recent episode on CALD representation in the senior executive left many of us and our listeners humbled. Australia’s public service is diverse, yet there is still some way to go to achieve true equality for CALD employees in its senior ranks.This time, Jim Betts joins host David Pembroke, CEO of contentgroup, to talk about the Secretaries Board’s CALD compact to support inclusion and equality at the leadership level. Jim talks about his role as an advocate, encouraging other secretaries to champion the cause of CALD employees.Jim also talks about his love for creating environments where others can thrive and bring their authentic selves to work and shaking up people’s pre-conceptions of what a senior public servant looks like. Key tips:As a leader, you don’t need to speak in management jargon to succeed, if that’s not who you are. You can be your authentic self.CALD employees shouldn’t have to drive change alone – be a champion for their cause.To create a sense of belonging, support your CALD employees in telling their stories and empathise with them.Show notes:Secretaries Board communique: 9 October 2024 | Department of the Prime Minister and CabinetWhy cultural and linguistic diversity matters | Work with Purpose Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Adam Fennessy PSM, Secretary of the Department of Agriculture, shares tips for having difficult conversations and an insight into the department’s recent Growing Australia Together strategy on this episode of Work with Purpose.Where is the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry headed under its recent Growing Australia Together strategy? And what are Secretary Adam Fennessy’s priorities based on the department’s capability review?Host David Pembroke and Adam discuss how ‘Growing Australia Together’ aims to increase the value of agriculture production and expand trade markets, protect the country’s food and fibre from diseases, and make agriculture more sustainable. Adam also talks about managing avian flu outbreaks in Australia, and the government’s $100 million investment in preparedness for new variants.In this episode, also learn about Adam’s focus on enhancing the department’s digital systems, staying connected with staff spread across Australia, and getting the most out of flexible working arrangements.Lastly, hear some key tips on how to have difficult conversations – whether it’s with your staff or stakeholders.Key tips:Go out and connect with community directly to have difficult debates even if it’s hard to hear. You will get better outcomes.In difficult conversations, make it about the issue and be prepared to step into an uncomfortable space.If you’re keen to optimise your flexible working arrangements, look into what the data tells you about how your workplace functions most effectively – don’t rely on anecdotes.Show notes:Fierce Conversations | Susan ScottGrowing Australia together | Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and ForestryFlexible working in the ACT Public Service | UNSW Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this episode, Dr Suzanne Akila, Jo Talbot, and Radi Kovacevic talk us through CALD representation in the public service, and what it will take for more culturally and linguistically diverse employees to succeed in the senior executive.Australia is a truly multicultural nation, with over 21 percent of the country's population born overseas. As this demographic has grown over the years, so has the number of culturally and linguistically diverse (CALD) employees in the public service. However, this isn’t broadly reflected in the senior executive level. Earlier this year, the public service launched its CALD Employment Strategy to address this gap.On this episode of Work with Purpose, host David Pembroke speaks with Dr Suzanne Akila from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and Radi Kovacevic from the Department of Home Affairs about their experience as CALD leaders in the public service. Leading the implementation of the CALD Employment Strategy, Jo Talbot from the Australian Public Service Commission also joins the discussion, focusing on how to create workplaces where everyone feels a sense of belonging.Discussed in this episode:·     why cultural and linguistic diversity matters in the workplace·     championing CALD employees in the APS·     being curious about people’s stories·     the effects of othering·     key initiatives under the CALD Employment Strategy·     building cultural understanding·     removing bias from recruitment processes·     challenging what a good leader looks like·     learning critical self-reflection·     tips for aspiring CALD leaders.Show notes:·     APS Culturally and Linguistically Diverse Employment Strategy and Action Plan | Australian Government·     CALD network | Australian Public Service Commission·     MOSAIC multicultural awareness digital magazine | APS Academy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Hon Dr Andrew Leigh MP joins us on the episode of Work with Purpose to highlight how evaluation can help create better policies and programs.On a recent episode of Work with Purpose on the art of policymaking, our experts agreed that evaluation should be baked into the development process from the get-go – but how do you make it work when the pressure is high?The Hon Dr Andrew Leigh MP, Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury, and Assistant Minister for Employment, joins presenter David Pembroke to talk about why evaluation shouldn’t be an afterthought. Assistant Minister Leigh reflects the year past since the establishment of the Australian Centre of Evaluation, and how it aims to raise the quality and quantity of evaluation across the Australian Public Service.Discussed in this episode:·     Assistant Minister Leigh’s story from growing up as the child of two aid workers to working in politics·     his role as Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury and Assistant Minister for Employment·     the role of the Australian Centre of Evaluation one year in·     lessons from medicine for randomised evaluation·     why there is a strong appetite from politicians to pursue randomised trials·     overcoming thought barriers to randomised trials·     why solely relying on observational data can be misleading, and·     building an experimenting society.Show notes:Fair game: lessons from sport for a fairer society & a stronger economy | Andrew LeighAPS builds skills for the future | Department of the Prime Minister & CabinetAustralian Centre for EvaluationEducation Endowment FoundationThe Magenta Book | UK Government Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lydia Milosavljevic from the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water and Zoe Scanlon from the Attorney-General’s Department give us a masterclass in executive support on this episode of Work with Purpose.What does it take to build a superstar executive support team?Hear from Lydia Milosavljevic, executive assistant to Deputy Secretary Simon Duggan at the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water, and Zoe Scanlon, chief of staff to Katherine Jones PSM, Secretary of the Attorney-General’s Department, about how to grow collaboration, prioritise appropriately, and build trust and respect for each other.Lydia and Zoe chat with presenter David Pembroke about why it’s important that everyone on the executive support team knows each other’s worth and unique contribution, and why you shouldn’t leave developing a good relationship to chance.Discussed in this episode:·     core tasks of EAs and chiefs of staff·     how to prioritise effectively·     collaboration between EAs, EOs and COSs·     sharing information between roles and keeping each other in the loop·     respecting and valuing each other’s expertise·     recommendations for EAs and chiefs-of-staff to build a strong relationship·     how to work effectively with the executive support team, no matter where you are in an organisation·     testing ideas with each other. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If your team is grappling with an increasingly busy workload, today’s episode of Work with Purpose with Martin Hehir PSM and Kathy Hilyard will give you some useful tips on how better collaboration can become part of the solution.With a busy work program following the pandemic, Martin Hehir PSM, deputy secretary, Governance and Corporate and chief operating officer, Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and his team faced this exact challenge while working at the Attorney-General’s Department. At the time, Martin had an inkling that expanding collaboration might be the key to meeting these increasing demands, whilst also maintaining a sense of happiness and resilience in the team. But how could he bring them along for this change amidst persistently high workloads?On this episode, Martin shares the story of how his team made it happen with the help of Kathy Hilyard, co-founder of the Centre for Collective Leadership. Martin and Kathy tell presenter David Pembroke about the “aha” moments and challenges, from experimenting with new ways of working across groups and professions to addressing fears around authenticity and vulnerability. Along the way, their efforts profoundly changed how leaders interacted with their teams and each other, fostering a more connected and resilient work environment.Discussed in this episode:·     how people’s workstyle changes under pressure·     creating a more collaborative culture·     opening up and being vulnerable as a leader·     learning through discomfort·     working across teams and professions·     growing relationship intelligence·     why professionals with specific expertise can often struggle to collaborate·     finding and empowering influential leaders in an organisation·     why leadership isn’t about position·     practicing how to disagree with grace·     honest, save, and respectful engagementShow notes:Strength deployment inventory | Core StrengthsDare to lead the story rumble process | Brené Brown Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A stronger emphasis on merit now will be crucial to ensure a thriving public service in the future, former APS Commissioner Andrew Podger AO tells us on this episode of Work with Purpose.APS Reform is in full swing, but what else could be added to the agenda? On this episode, we hear the perspective of former senior public servant, now commentor and researcher, Andrew Podger AO on the value of merit, where stewardship is appropriate, and what has affected capability within Australia’s public sector.In discussion with IPAA National President Andrew Metcalfe AO, Andrew Podger talks us through his views of how APS values could better highlight the public service’s commitment to the public. He also discusses his idea of bringing back tenure for secretaries with a stronger focus on merit assessments, and why the Public Service Commissioner should act as the professional head of the public service.In future discussions, we’ll also hear from others in our sector, who are grappling with this same question. Keep an eye out for future episodes which will highlight other academic and practitioner perspectives and research on some of Australia’s public sector’s most pressing challenges.Contributions to the public sector reform debate on:·     why merit should be given more weight in the public service and other statutory appointments·     a code of conduct that is a statutory requirement for ministerial staff and their relationship with the public service·     suggestions about what stewardship should mean for secretaries·     clarifying the public service’s commitment to the public·     rewards and penalties for secretaries·     the APS Commissioner as the professional head of the public service·     the role of merit in appointments for positions such as high commissioners or ambassadors·     improving the way the public services hires contractors·     rebuilding expertise in the public service·     conflict of interest and post-separation employment provisions.ShownotesDiscussion paper: Further reform of the Australian Public Service | ANU Centre for Social Research & Methods2024 IPAA ACT Conference: Ready to Rethink Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dr Wendy Craik AM FTSE joins us for this episode reflecting on a career of curiosity and collaboration in service of Australia’s marine environment.Dr Wendy Craik AM FTSE has had a long and distinguished career across science, not-for-profits and the public sector. What has she learned along the way, from her time as a PhD candidate in Canada researching fish to working on the first management plans for the Great Barrier Reef?Find out on this episode of Work with Purpose as David Pembroke sits down with Wendy to discuss her golden rules for effective collaboration and trust in complex environments. Drawing on her experience at the reef and her time at the National Farmers Federation, Wendy encourages everyone not to let fear get in the way of a great opportunity.Wendy also explores how social media is affecting growing cynicism and distrust in science and why everyone has a role to play in providing solid evidence to challenge misinformation.Discussed in this episode:·     Being curious about people and opportunities·     The development of the first management plans of the Great Barrier Reef·     Building collaboration and trust, even if parties have different goals·     How to be open and honest about the things you don’t know·     The root cause of distrust in science·     What everyone can do to promote evidence·     Why she is optimistic about progress·     Advice on communicating science effectively and transparently·     Why any good relationship takes time to develop.Shownotes:2024 Frances Adamson Oration | IPAA National Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In a first for Work with Purpose, we welcome The Hon Patrick Gorman MP to talk about his journey into politics, supporting the Prime Minister, and his vision for the use of artificial intelligence in the public service.From Assistant Minister to the Public Service, to Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, to – more recently – Assistant Minister to the Attorney-General, the Hon Patrick Gorman MP covers an extensive portfolio of work. On this episode of Work with Purpose, he tells us how he keeps up with his responsibilities, and why he enjoys working to support Australia’s communities.In conversation with host David Pembroke, Assistant Minister Gorman reflects on what his time as an adviser to former prime minister Kevin Rudd has taught him about reconciliation and how Australians are seen on the international stage. Minister Gorman also discusses what robodebt meant for Australians and the public service, and the way forward through integrity and stewardship. Lastly, he talks through embracing technological shifts in the public service and why AI should be used to create value for taxpayers.Discussed in this episode:·     Minister Gorman’s way into politics·     Connecting with constituents·     What he learned in his time as adviser to former prime minister Kevin Rudd·     His role as Assistant Minister for the Public Service, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Assistant Minister to the Attorney-General·     How assistant ministers support ministers·     Digitisation and smart ways of working·     Putting people and businesses at the centre of government·     Reflections on robodebt·     How the public service can ensure artificial intelligence delivers value for Australia’s communities.Shownotes·     The Hon Patrick Gorman MP | Parliament of Australia·     IPAA ACT Express Summit: AI in the public sector | Department of the Prime Minister & Cabinet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.